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I like the concept of women working with men to support the family but the women need to understand one basic point that you can do whatever you can do, but you still can't beat the working capability of a men, I am not saying the women can't do anything they can do, but they must remember that its their secondary objective its simple they can't bear the stress which society puts on them.
Women must be educated because a wise women can only raise a wise kid,
For beauty its the basic nature of women like the jealousy you can't change it and along with deep, deep , deep inside every women knows they are doing this to attract a men who will marry her and look after her.
Obviously you are right; there is legal equality, but in the way we relate to each other, traditional patterns still exist.
I don't agree women don't need a man.. she doesn't need one to be the breadwinner in most cases now, but we still need each other on emotional levels, perhaps even more than when we were confined in sex-related roles that weren't comfortable.
Each man was designed to have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. (1 Cor. 7:2) That never changes, regardless the calendar date.
Now, that doesn't mean women of today are completely helpless without a man, or vice-versa. But that has never been generally true. Yet, to act like traditional roles never matter is to err in the opposite direction.
Which tradition?
@Marstalk: The Teaching of Headship, for starters. The man leads the house, but must be considerate of the woman's input at all times, so that they choose a direction and don't waste excessive amounts of time fighting over it, yet they don't go resenting each other and squabbling for control.
Remember how Michele Bachmann got eviscerated for saying that true Biblical submission to a spouse is out of respect for roles in the household, and not related to the presidency per se?
She was right. She was invoking the St. Thomas Indian, Coptic, and William F. Beck Lutheran concepts of what that meant - as opposed to what a lot of other modern denominations teach that doesn't quite fit.
Also, there's the idea of women who need a knight. Some do, some don't. Even Paul discussed that; and that neither should view the other as "superior," for they are called differently in life.
All the ignorant "that's just a fable!" haters have no context, so everything is battle of the sexes.
So more of a slightly altered complemtarianism/reformed concept?
@Marstalk : Along those lines. I'll have to research that word now.
Basically women and men should complement each other's weakness based on sex.
Also with the Man as the head. One must consider the cultural time period. Say Greek and Roman culture women where suppose to be submissive. Though in other areas we find Paul talking about and to some Apostles/Disciples that are female. Not to mention the first ones to see and spread the word of the resurrection are females. You also have Deborah in the Old Testament who was a Prophet/Judge. There is much to consider when we talk sex roles and places. Especially when dealing with texts that are not from our culture.
@Marstalk: True. I read a whole section in The Politically-Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization about Greco-Roman patriarchy, as well as Jewish society.
While atheists love to bash Deuteronomy for forbidding certain sexual practices that even modern medicine agrees are not beneficial to engage in, and love to use the NIV (a horrible translation, the William F. Beck AAT is way better) to make the Old Testament sound anti-woman, Jewish women actually enjoyed more gender equality than women in pretty much any other culture of the time. Jewish society was one of the first to make any mention of women's rights, particularly in the case of rape. Other cultures, rape was hardly even viewed as wrong. Or it was always "her fault" somehow.
A lot of other things they blame on the Bible are actually in the Hadith. And yes, the Western concept of what man-as-the-head means has often become very warped, leading to overcompensation (like ads and sitcoms where all men are idiots.)
I agree that the Jewish laws which are always used to show sexism are taken out of cultural context. Most this argument streams from what seems to be the idea that if God spoke to man then man would know the absolutes, so to speak. It also excludes any factor of free will and a relationship. But that is another factor all together.
Also I have never read the William F. Beck translation. Though I am always leery of using just one translation.
To give some credit to the NIV it was written at a 6th grade reading level on purpose. So the translation is going to be a bit off, but then again all translations are on some factor. Even the manuscripts used are not all the same in certain respects. If you used the Septuagint as your bases you do not have a virgin but a young woman who gives birth to Christ. At least in the Old Testament prophecy.
I think we should be careful how we deal with the man and woman relationship. Because if we do not we will perpetuate the curse of the fall. There seems to be a concept of neither is the head or leader before the fall.
My issue with what Paul brings is that while it looks just plain and simple. There is more behind it due to culture. And honestly early Christianity offered much more equality than what was cultural outside of Judaism at the time (well by Hellenistic standards at least).
Though some points you make are valid, I would like an old fashioned man and I have just obtained an old fashioned man.
I am old school and I would appreciate some gender role's. The only thing that I would change is I would like to work and I don't want children.
"We don't need no man"... hahahahhahah say that to all the women hitting their 30s, wondering if they're destined to die alone (which is a lot of them).
This. Also the scales are obviously on different heights. Haha
Pretty much this.
"So yeah, the modern woman doesn't NEED a man, but when we have one, we are his equal."
BRB the modern woman only goes for guys if they are a higher social status, make more money and/or generally better looking than her. Rarely gives the guy who is her tier in looks and/or money a chance.
Oh but your equal. Sure thing lover.
Ok so Ur just another male hating phsyco so I'm gonna say this clearly women according to the law are equal if not more privileged to males males are judged on wealth, strength, brains, looks etc there's a picture online that compares the two genders in this sense but girls are only judged on looks... Like gtfo stop whining guys have it way harder. And stop thinking that "we don't need a man" yes you do... But men also need a woman unless your gay then that's fine but you pen's chopping idiots are going bezerk stop it
"sexism and objectification of women is still very much a thing"
I disagree. Depending on what you stipulate objectification to mean, the sexual objectification of women is either not actually a thing, or it is "objectification" in the same way that having a skin colour preference when it comes to attraction is racism i. e. not really harmful, at least in respect to men. If you want to say women objectify themselves then that might be something else.
"Once intelligence is valued over physical beauty in society, will we truly be unstoppable."
And I don't even know what to say to this. This is just weird. Although, I think it would be more topical to say once intelligence is valued over comfort in society, will we truly be unstoppable.
My boyfriend needs me cuz I have all the money lol... it's really only because he is a music major and the music program is more expensive. I want to be a drama professor because profs in my province get paid very very well and it's also what I enjoy, so I will be the one who's in school longer and then I will be the poor one for a while.
Although I like the idea of women and men being equal, I personally like traditional relationships better. I would be more likely to feel special, find a guy more attractive, and to do things in return if a guy was to do unexpected 'masculine'(can't think of examples) things. It also makes me feel feminine. I don't judge people who want a more modern relationship since I can see the pros to it.
Women not needing men in shining armor is like men not needing the girl who's super shy but is also somehow a monster in bed despite a lack of experience.
They don't need them but they sure as hell want them.
Maybe it's just the type of women who are drawn to me but I've always found most women need emotional support and stabilization. I am the rock they stand on, the safe place they can retreat to when they get bloodied by the world.
I don't know if this kind of strength and support is something they absolutely need but they sure seem to like it.
I disagree. I actually want to have a romantic, traditional relationship where I can feel small and protected.
There is nothing wrong with liking that feeling. There is also nothing wrong with men who love to feel protective. Id say its a part of nature.
@Jayded1 Yeah, but people are trying to make women look so independent and strong because apparently that's equality.
People can't see that you can be both. There is no grey area these days, everything is one side or the other. I consider myself to be a macho guy, alpha like. I like to be in control. i like to feel protective. I like to treat girlfriend like princesses. But I also tear up at disney movies and love to be cuddled in bed. It is ok to be both strong and fragile at the same time. That is what people can't grasp. Equality isn;t being one thing, it's being all things.
@Jayded1 Yeah, I guess you're right.
I don't know why men degrade women anyway... pretty much all the jobs and activities men usually do is just based off of skill, not gender. Women can do the same thing because it's just skill.
And the Modern Man doesn't want a woman in his life, since she's little more than a financial and legal liability. Let's stay the fuck away from each other and call it a day.
I'm younger than you, therefore, I'm more of a "modern man" than you, and I do want a woman in my life :/
@AleDeEurope
if you want to debate modernity vs. age, start a new question.
As for you being old-fashioned, suit yourself.
Most women like you just say that and then are surprised that a guy didn't treat you "right" or something.
I don't know, i actually want a man in my life. I think men and women have so much to learn from each other. I have always seen myself as more of a traditional person. Honestly i think girl put more value on how we look. My guy friends are more accepting of my natural look.
I'm just here to say that the picture you used for the balance, has the man weighing more than the woman. :P
(Just use the scroll and put the man on the bottom of your screen, and you can easily spot the difference heheheh)
You are wrong in so many levels I won't spend the time to address them all, I'll keep to this:
"So yeah, the modern woman doesn't NEED a man"
Yes, all heterosexual women NEEDs a man to be happy and feel fulfilled, just as any man NEEDS a woman be happy and feel fulfilled, it's natural and there is nothing wrong with that.
What isn't natural it the political ideology you are peddling.
You are full of crap lol
Prove me wrong...
I hate it that our society believes a woman NEEDS a man to be happy. First example: I am single and happy. All my friends have a boyfriend and one of them keeps saying I have to find one. But why would I want to do that? I think of a relationship as an addition. I would only want one if I came across the perfect guy (for me). But when I thonk of a relationship with one of the teen guys at I school, I actually cringe. Second example: Miranda Hart. She is single and achieved tons of things and she's HAPPY.
Right so you do have a point about "all heterosexual women" is incorrect, however MOST heterosexual women don't feel happy and fulfilled while single and without a family.
So in the end, they all crave for a relationship with the "perfect" man for them, because in the end they need it emotionally. That's why most people don't end up being alone their whole life.
Okay, thank you. Sadly, that is true because that is the thing I hate about society. Of course I don't want everyone to end up sad and alone, but I feel it is sad that most girls and women do need a guy to be happy. Sorry if I came across angry, that wasn't my intention.
Pretty sure women need men to get pregnant and raise a child hun :^)
Both sexes need the other, but I've met many more women who crave a man's company than men who crave women's company.
Most men don't actually want women around generally, they just want to have sex and then leave.
Says under 18 kid
@buttheadkakakak He actually isn't far off for most guys today.
@bobbydigitaloa still, I get the feeling he doesn't really get that some ladies don't want kids
@buttheadkakakak Men don't need women emotionally as much as women need men. I've seen this trend, it doesn't really matter what you think.
If women don't want kids that's completely fine. Women don't technically need a man, and I agree with that. But it's just like a man doesn't need a woman. Their lives will probably be better as long as they don't get a shitty partner.
There's a lot less men today who are vocal about not needing a woman than there are women who are vocal about not being a man. Shut the fuck up and live your lives'. People can do what they want, but don't make it a huge issue.