What I Wish People Knew About Feminism


In this myTake I will discuss gender roles, patriarchy, and toxic masculinity.

First and foremost I want readers to know these three things:

1.) Feminism is NOT about hating men.

2.) Patriarchy harms both men and women.

3.) Toxic masculinity is NOT the same as toxic male.

Why Gender Roles Are Damaging Our Society

I believe gender roles are damaging. Gender is a social construction that starts as soon as we are born. We learn from others what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a girl, and we are often shamed or ridiculed when we try to deviate from the norm.

A boy tells his parents he wants to be a preschool teacher, an artist, or a stay-at-home dad. His parents think, “Where did we go wrong?” A boy wants to take ballet classes, and again his parents think, “Where did we go wrong?”

A girl comes home from school and says she wants to be the next president, a doctor, a lawyer, or chemical engineer, and her parents are thrilled and support her. A girl wants to play soccer instead of instead of trying out for the dance team, and again her parents support her.

The Broverman Study

In 1968, Ing Broverman and her colleagues asked a group of college students to complete a questionnaire that asked them to rate themselves between two extremes, such as extremely rational and not at all rational. The purpose of this study was to find out how college students described their self-concept in relation to sex-roles. At the end of the study it was clear that men and women view themselves as fulfilling sex-role stereotypes.

In 1970 Ing Broverman, whose work revolved around clinical diagnoses and sex-role stereotyping, conducted a study where she asked a large group of mental health professionals to describe a healthy adult using the same questionnaire as the college students had. Some participants described a male, others female, and the rest described a healthy adult with an unspecified sex. The end result showed that the traits for a healthy man and healthy adult were the same. For example, men shared traits such as confidence and independence, whereas women shared traits like kindness and concern for others. Consequently to be a woman is to be an unhealthy psychologically immature adult. The results for both experiments hold true across time and various culture.

What does this mean for us, and how does this impact our children and grandchildren when all things masculine are valued and deemed superior to all things female, which are considered less than, weak, and other?

Patriarchy and Toxic Masculinity

Last semester in my Human Behavior and the Social Environment class we watched the documentary called The Mask You Live In., which is now available for streaming on Netflix. Before watching the documentary all I could think was how angry I felt and how I wanted men to pay. I learned that men are not the enemy. The enemy, and the root cause of many social issues is patriarchy, which harms every single person regardless of their gender.


"The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem."

-Bell Hooks

Toxic Masculinity is one of the ways patriarchy is harmful to men. From a young age boys are told, "Be a man! Stop crying! Don't be a sissy!" Boys and men go through life hiding behind a mask, constantly having to prove their masculinity. That seems pretty exhausting to me.

Thanks for reading!


What I Wish People Knew About Feminism
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Most Helpful Guy

  • sawno
    Alright so i expected to go on a debunking spree again and go savage on your ridiculous logic since i typically completely oppose feminists. Your take however was quite reasonable and i don't entirely disagree with it so lets do a typical Sawno feminist commentary where i take a more thorough look at the matter beginning at your 3 stances.

    1.) Feminism is NOT about hating men.
    This is actually agree on, those that are hating men are often an even more vocal even tinier group but are really just totalitarian women upset about there life trying to force there success another way rather then actual feminists and i don't consider them the same. However the important point remains is that BOTH of these groups put themselves BEFORE men when the need arises and typically is for equality of outcome rather then equality of opportunity meaning both movements are equally harmful towards men and women who are not masculine enough and want to life a life that feminists disagree with.

    2.) Patriarchy harms both men and women.
    This definition is always such a blur to me, as someone who operates solely based on logic i just am never capable of understanding what you mean by the patriarchy because i often hear it mentioned or yelled but never properly explained so i admit i need a better view of what you consider to be the problem exactly as it seems quite non-existent. What is a problem however this these feminist groups interfering with the lives of others, victimizing those who they claim to stand up for. Condemning them or calling them misogynistic if they rather life a feminine life or fuck a bunch of guys for the fun of it instead of earning there independence financially. That means that whatever the patriarchal problem may be your movement is actually heavily making it worse by dictating how others should life and by dictating who should be presented opportunities in life making them absolutely sexist and often discriminational to both men and women.

    3.) Toxic masculinity is NOT the same as toxic male.
    Still confusing to me, so ill just skip over this one until your next section where you elaborate this point.
    (To be continued in the comments)
    Is this still revelant?
    • sawno

      I then come to your chapter Why Gender Roles Are Damaging Our Society.
      You are completely right on the fundamentals but this is a slippery slope. So first and foremost i agree with you that you should not question what a child wants to do and just let them do what fits them but its a bit more complicated then just that. Gender neutral raising can be done wrong if people are forcing there boy to do girly things or there girl to do things a boy would do. Proper parenting in this regard is catering to the natural interests of a girl and a boy but if your child indicates they like something you don't shut them down because its girly or boyish but at the same time you don't force them into either of them. So once again i agree with your premise but not make that horrible gender neutral video a reality where all the boys are exactly like girls and psychologically completely messed up.

    • sawno

      Also this needs to be accompanied with proper socialization because if your child can be perceived as a freak by society they need to have the proper skillet to defend themselves and not get socially rejected by there peers as that would be devastating for there life.

      Now the study portion of your take is actually a bit more complicated by can still be logically analysed. A healthy adult has a good balance of traits that makes them a balanced happy individual who can deal well in life. That means that men need to learn some of the feminine traits they may not be naturals at and the women need some of the masculine traits that they might not be natural at to. That is because you need both skill sets in different times. Women are typically really good at empathy and can really feel someone and take care of them with high degrees of quality. Men on the other hand excel at logic but also especially being less agreeable and competitive which is very good for career making.

    • sawno

      Now you can settle it at that and opt for the traditional roles where the two individuals opt for what they naturally do best which typically means the male does the career and the female takes care of the family as that is them at there natural best at least in the common scenario as obviously all people differ and if you where with a couple where the women is very competitive driven and the man very empathic it would be logical the roles are reversed.

      But in a modern society and the complexity we life in we evolved past our natural talents and want to focus on our true potential and really excel at life doing what we want to do and not just what we have a biological talent for. That means that more then ever the men and women need to get together and learn from each other and really teach each other to be the best at the traits they need in there life.

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What Girls & Guys Said

  • OlderAndWiser
    I got as far as "Gender is a social construction" and decided to not spend any more time reading; the handwriting is on the wall. You took a class in college and watched a video. Your education is far from complete. So far, you have been indoctrinated by liberals with an agenda. Many more years of experience will teach you other lessons.

    I appreciate your offer to show us the way to the Promised Land but I will rely on my years of accumulated lessons learned from life, not from a video.
  • ThisDudeHere
    This is almost comical enough to have been written as a form of some anti-feminist satire.
  • JimRSmith
    What a load of crap.

    You lost me at the point where you said "gender is a social construct", although I was disinclined to continue after I saw the word 'patriarchy'.

  • FakeName123
    Yeah. I really hate it when people misrepresent for what feminists stand for.
    So let's listen to what powerful and influental big-name feminists had to say:

    “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” ~Robin Morgan

    “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” ~Andrea Dworkin

    “Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” ~Susan Brownmiller

    “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” ~Sally Miller Gearhart

    "I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it.” ~Barbara Jordan

    “Compare victims’ reports of rape with women’s reports of sex. They look a lot alike….[T]he major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it.” ~Catherine MacKinnon

    "As far as I’m concerned, men are the product of a damanged gene." ~Germaine Greer

    “The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together…. Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process…. No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children… Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people’s needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all.”

    ~Linda Gordon

    “Men’s sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can ‘reach WITHIN women to fuck/construct us from the inside out.’ Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women’s own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, ‘even if she does not feel forced.’

    ~Judith Levine

    I really hate when people misrepresent what feminism stands for, yes.
    • I guess I'm in the minority then? I wish I could edit the title. Do you think "What Feminism Means to Me" would have been better?

    • I think it would be better if you distance yourself from the label, because feminism doesn't have a monopoly on equality.

      Feminism is a movement. It is one movement, one combined group who got together trying to achieve their vision and with their means to achieve equality. Are you part of the movement or does just some views align is the question you have to ask yourself.

      The next question is - how practical is equality and what kind of equality do you stand for. But thats a whole different conversation to have.

    • Anyway, kudos to you being open minded and capable of taking criticism.

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  • Hannajenky
    A man who cries all the time is not someone I would want to be with. Women are the reason men are the way they are. Just like men are the reason women are the way they are.

    There is no toxic masculinity only toxic people. Women are more violent, but men are stronger. My mom used to hit my dad and it only hurt his pride. If he hit her she would have been in the hospital.

    Women are in charge of the house and nowadays anyone can follow their dreams and get whatever job they want. Women are more than 50% of the voters.

    The studies you site are almost 50 years old.

    I love bell hooks but i dont believe in the patriarchy. We have traditional gender roles for a reason, but it doesn't mean they can change as our society evolves.

    No mother or father would be disappointed if their son wanted to be a preschool teacher.

    There are good and bad things about the way things are in our society, but to try to erase everything and impose some new feminist structure is a stupid idea.

    Feminism should tackle homeless issues since they want to control every aspect of our lives. Like manspreading wtf or refusal to allow speakers critical of feminism on campus all over the world.

  • ShrewdRose
    Feminism used to mean something. These days it's just another liberal platform used to spread hatred and nonsense. I do respect the fact that there are what I'd call true feminists out there (The women campaigning for Equal pay, the women who secured Women the vote, etc) but they're not going around showing their boobs to power their message, that's for sure.
    • And it’s those women who go around showing their boobs that give feminism a bad name. It’s a delicate subject with so much history that is controversial. Feminism is difficult to define. There are various kinds of feminism. So when someone says they are a feminist it is easy for people who aren’t to assume they are just like the ones that irritate others and are actually making things worse.

    I watched this red pill video and I also watched a video on this girl who is a feminist give about how she feels about the topic, and feminists victimize themselves and they DO point fingers at the men... saying the men just use them... WHATEVER. They allowed themselves to be used... total BS
    • Lei-get

      Dang, I didn't know some women thought that way. I guess I just hear the women complaining rather than the ones who are just doing their thing. Huh.

      Every society has a big problem or two that comes and goes in phases. Right now it's things like feminism and whatnot, in time it'll be something else.

  • Immortal_God_King
    Typical feminist mythology.

    Feminism is about hating men, but so much more. Subjugating them, female superiority masquerading as equality, etc. A woman walks with community service and counseling as her sentence for killing two pedestrians drunk driving. Meanwhile a man released after 31 exonerated on DNA evidence after well over a decade of its availability to exonerate him, for a rape conviction based on a proven false claim, is "compensated" $75.00. Which brings us to the next "point," for lack of a better term.

    Patriarchy is a myth. All lineages throughout history were known to have been necessary to be matriarchal, because men have always known the nature of women and knew they could never guarantee the paternity of their own children. Who does it sound like held real power?

    Toxic masculinity is a myth. However, let's pretend it's real. Given that abortion is ultimately a woman's choice, toxic femininity is responsible for a genocide that would make Hitler blush, and that of unborn babies... so which gender's "toxicity" is of greater harm?

    QED, Milo is wrong about feminism being cancer. Cancer has never done enough harm to deserve the comparison.
  • TayTay21
    There's nothing artificial about gender. This is what happens when you spend too much time in women's studies and no time in biology.

    Nobody likes feminists because they're a bunch of lesbians who resent men being in power because they want that for themselves. It's just jealousy. The whole feminist movement was started by lesbians a hundred years ago because they didn't want to have to get married to survive.
  • genericname85
    i fully agree that there is a toxic masculinity that we as a society need to get rid of and that the male white previlege or "patriarchy" has disadvantages for men and women alike. there's also a toxic femininity that is at least as undesirable but i don't wanna go too far into it right now.

    for now i just wanna clear out some missconceptions that you have with feminism.

    1: you are not the instance that is allowed to determine "what feminism is about and what not". in fact there is no such instance at all, which makes feminism so controverse and problematic.

    what you did here is elaborating your personal normative demands as to what feminism "should" mean, which i'd say is not at all agreed upon by everybody that calls themself "feminist" (which is why i said feminism is problematic).

    I'm not saying feminism is good or bad. i'm just saying there is no such thing as a rule or a manifest or whatever that would determine set boundaries of feminism that anybody can legitimately refer to.

    2: gender is not a social construct. gender is a concept that is tightly tied in with the biological differences between men and women that inarguably do objectively exist. however yes i agree some of the assumptions about gender roles do not quite fit the bill anymore, as we evolve biologically and as a society. gender is not any more or less a "construct" than reality it self. one could argue that reality is a "construct" of our brain that utilizes our sensory range trying to "reconstruct" reality for our brains to understand with the parts that we're able to experience. it doesn't mean that we construct reality though. reality exists outside of our percption and so does gender.

    i'm sorry that this got so lengthy but if you wanna challenge those points, i invite you to discuss with me.
    • No worries about the length. Do you think "What Feminism Means to Me" would have been a better title?

    • definitely. i mean in that case there would not be much to argue except the fact that gender is not a social construct. that's just plain wrong. i don't blame you for that at all though. in the whole gender debate, there's just so much uneducated bullshit, even i sometimes have problems determining where certain statements come from to point out how bullshit they are... yet a bunch of people take it as granted as if it was a generally accepted truth even though the very base of their argument is plain bullshit. i mean that whole gender pay gap debate for example... so much normatively loaded incoherent, and made up stuff that's not based in reality.

    • i mean i'm not some elitist "knowitall" i'm a social scientist and my knowledge is quite limited but i can just shake my head at what low levels even some freaking highly educated professors in the us seem to discuss this topic. feels like kindergarten to me.

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  • Cuintan
    You are on the right track! Congratulations.
    I don't understand what is unhealthy or immature about kindness and concern for others. Lack of empathy and sympathy is definitely unhealthy, and other testing has shown that kids seem to have natural sympathy and empathy so if that's immature we all need to be less mature. I know many women in business who are both confident and independent and many men in all walks of life who exemplify sympathy and empathy. All are healthy adults.
    The view of patriarchy you present may be a paradigm or template and as such not universally applicable. It seems extreme. There is truth there but we can certainly agree that in the form presented it is toxic and is probably still prevalent in some sub-cultures, the military, paramilitaries (police, e. g.), sports. Less so in real life these days.
    You seem to have been heavily influenced by one segement of one course and possibly by one professor. In my opinion the most important thing you get out of education is the faculty of critical thinking.
    Question everything.
    Remain skeptical.
    Seek out other points of view.
    The universe is not binary, so find the subtleties and the complexities. Nothing is 'gospel', including the Gospels!
    • @Cuintan Thank you!! Your assumption is correct, and I agree with you about seeking out other points of view.

  • VaIiant
    I clicked on this expecting a great Take about equality, instead of the anti-men feminists of today...
    Instead I got, albeit well written, feminazi bull crap.
    • UnaKaizen

      how so?

    • VaIiant

      @UnaKaizen it was pretty much a double standard, of how toxic masculinity is bad but said nothing about toxic feminism. I think the writer had good intentions, but didn’t get the point across very well. This post had little to do with feminism.

  • Belgie
    Another kid comes along and says to everyone Hey! Ignore history, ignore the facts, ignore what you've seen, ignore what you know, ignore what you've experienced! ! I'm here to tell you feminism isn't about hating men, it's about equality.

    Another kid who doesn't know shit...
  • Political_dude
    BS. I call myself feminist and I'm all for equality but I couldn't disagree with you more. I came here expecting a great take but all I see is a load of crap.
    • Astoriana

      I’ll bite.

      What do you specifically disagree with and why?

    • @Astoriana Can you please wait for sometime? I'm writing a take rn and it is pretty much important. I can explain but give me some time.

    • Astoriana

      I don’t think anything about this website could ever be important, but ok.

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  • hellionthesagereborn
    So feminism isn't about hating men but the grand enemy of the benevolent femin (female) ist are the evil patri (male) archy? Also what is toxic masculinity and why do we never hear about toxic femininity? Seems rather sexist to me. In short, everything you said is entirely false, I didn't even have to read past the first paragraph. First and foremost who pushed for all the laws that give women all the privilege and men all the responsibility? Feminist. It was femininst who encouraged bias laws that gave women the right to custody over children and its women who are favored by an insane degree. It was femininst who took away mens reproductive rights and rights to their own genetic material and bodies (hermsman vs seyer, circumcision). As for gender, we know for an absolute fact with absolutely no grey area that gender is biololgical in origin so you trying to fight against "gender roles" is like arguing that we can be a doggy or kitty if we want. No, we cannot. As for all the other bullshit, we have so many studies proving that feminist studies are all bullshit that I just can't be bothered to list them all as you will not listen anyway because you are a zealot who hates men and is obsessed with the idea that you are a perpetual victim, who is weak and helpless but also an equal some how, but not so much an equal as you should be treated as an equal when it come to responsibility but more like an equal in that you should have all the privilege that women have always had (and then some) and also all the privilege that men have had but also none of the responsibility (which you force on men instead). In short feminism is evil and femininst are terrible human beings who are sexist not only towards men but towards women as well. I'd call it cancer but that would be doing a disservice to cancer, it shouldn't have to be associated with an organization/ideology such as yours.
  • 1derfulguy
    Lol I don't know where to start with all the factual errors this contains. Protip: If you're looking to acquire actual knowledge of the world, it helps to look to science - and sorry, but social "science" of the kind you mentioned does not qualify. Anyone can make up a theory based on personal experience, anecdotal evidence, poorly-designed questionnaires and semantics. Doesn't mean the theory describes reality.

    The idea that we enter life as a "blank slate" on which society engraves a role is wrong and has been proven to be wrong by thorough research in genetics and neuroscience.

    "Patriarchy" is a word feminists made up to account for their suffering. Never seem to have bothered to consider whether men suffer too. Just assumed that the way they saw things was objective reality, and anyone who disagrees needs to listen more.

    The funniest part is that claim about feminism not being about hating men. Feminists always trot that one out. Usually in the thread under some Tweet or article that specifically singles men out for yet another shaming over some random thing that rubbed feminists the wrong way.

    Let me be very clear: Feminism is an ideology promoted by an interest group (women). It is no different to, and no better than things like TheRedPill and MGTOW. Both are retarded. Neither are scientific.
  • freakyzeaky
    On point 2, it is mostly because Western society values ambition, success, individual achievement, and social status. These things are highly influenced by how assertive someone is, which is a masculine trait. Agreeableness, on the other hand, is a feminine trait. The assertive trait manifests itself when a person fights for a raise, refuses to back down in a fight, negotiates terms in a settlement, and so forth. Agreeableness manifests itself when a person aims to be likable, is nurturing, supportive, and kind.

    This is why men tend to be in high places of power far more often than women because they are driven and willing to sacrifice a large part of their lives to be competitive and dominate. It is also why you see more male CEOs, men excelling in STEM fields, and other high-stress jobs that require long hours of work and very little margin for error. Women, on the other hand, are seen far more often in the medical fields like nursing, doctors, and therapists. Women outnumber men as teachers about 1 to 20. Social work is something women also seem to excel at. What do these fields have in common? Do you think women choose these jobs because they are forced by society or do you think that they felt inclined to take up these jobs because it seemed to suit them?
    After all, Western society has never been as inclusive with as much freedom for people of all genders and races to choose which career path they wish to follow.

    There is a reason that social mores and stereotypes exist. It is because the majority fit into stereotypical archetypes, with some deviation, but it is a natural inclination based on biological and psychological differences between the genders.

    I could go on, but I feel Jordon Peterson covers this topic better than I ever could. Think about this. We as human beings function best when we have some sort of structure. When we are faced with chaos, we start to break down as a society. Society self-preservatives by trying to keep things orderly and part of that is providing people with a purpose and to carve a place for themselves in the world. The more confusing things become, with 101 gender pronouns, with blurring the lines, by not know what we want, it creates an empty void that can never be filled and unhappiness results.

    Watch some of these vids:
    Assertiveness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6-360oFHZ4

    Women create the "Patriarchy": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Hez7iYAHo
  • meowcow
    Gender is not a social construct. MONEY is a social construct. FAME is a social construct. Gender is not fluid, and you are a moron.

    The modern-day definition of gender (i. e., you are what you THINK you are) never existed a decade ago. Silly men who think they are a woman, are in fact still a man - and vice versa. Gender roles are the result of the biological differences between a man and a woman. The roles of the male/female sex in other types of animals is the result of their biological differences.

    In humans, simply put - MALE = bigger, stronger. Consequently, men do the labor work. The building, carrying, hunting... etc, which makes them physically and mentally strong over time. FEMALE = smaller, not as strong as males. Consequently, in any human society where people contribute, it makes no sense for females to do the heavy labor work. Even so, there are many other less laborious types of work that need to be done in order for society to function.

    Oh how funny society would be, if women were the ones to do all the labor work, while men did the domestic work. How inefficient that society would be. And how quickly such a society would be destroyed by another civilization that applies the logical roles of men and women.

    And the feminism you describe is the exact reason why most of the population rejects modern-day feminazis.

    by the way, it is in human nature (and nature in general) to exert force to get what one wants. Males are stronger than females, so in the human race, men are typically more physically abusive. However, women are stronger than children, and it is actually women who are more physically abusive to children than men.

    In the animal world, brute strength is what determines survival for many species. This includes the strength to hunt, and to compete/dominate over over males of the species.

    You can spew your backwards philosophy, but the fact is, all societies will develop with the same male/female roles based on the inherent differences between man and woman.

    Unless you genetically alter males to become smaller, and weaker than women, the roles will ever change.
  • Shcnazzberry
    Wow, this is a disgrace. I'm a proud patriot. #feminismsucks
    • UnaKaizen

      what is the disgrace exactly?

    • @UnaKaizen What isn't? The whole thing is convoluted.

    • @UnaKaizen Feminism isn't what it's suppose to be. The ladies marching for voting rights are the real feminists, now a days you have half naked women in the street and wearing replicates of vaginas on their bodies. Tell me why they do this fucking shit. It's bonkers.

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  • lord_chilled
    All bs.

    1) feminism is not about hating men.
    Its about reversing the power balance and having women come out on top of men.

    This is why real men hate feminism and weak beta males and women like feminism.
    Im not surprised at the women, anyone would want to be in power if possible.
    Im surprised at these sorry men , who are so weak and to give up their power and place in society.

    This equality for both sexes is a bunch of bs and you know it.
    When was the last a time feminists ever did anything for men in areas were women were dominant and men were powerless?

    Do you see any feminists fight for a universal or at least state level mandatory paternity testing at birth, for men to be able to know who their child is, a right women were naturally able to enjoy, since ever?
    And help those millions of men who are raising a child thats not theirs?

    Do you ever see feminists fighting for men who are left behind in the "save the women and children first" mentality in any hostage situation or crisis situation?

    Do you ever see feminists fighting for improvements in the case of workplace deaths (which happens almost only to men, who aren't of the white collar work sector)?

    No you won't. So stfu about feminists being for "equality".
    If you are for gender equality, be an egalitarian, not a hypocrite feminist.

    2) patriarchy harms both men and women.
    No, the patraiarchy keeps men, women, children, and their lifestyles safe.

    The patriarchy is the result of a society thats fights for survival. Its the result of competition and a "best man for the job" attitude.
    Its basically a hierarchy based on rewarding those who are the best at doing their work.
    Its not meant to be oppressive, altough it can do that as well. However, patrairchy is the reason for progress and survival of a society.

    Without patriarchy there will be no progress and only degeneracy.
    Every strong and currently existing societies have been patriarchial originally.
    Matraiarchy is what happens in the absence of patriarchy.
    And matriarchy is degeneracy and an endgame of a civilization. Every matriarchial society has collapsed. Its unsustainable in a threatening environment.
    Matriarchial civilizations have always, always either destroyed themselves or been conquered by another patriarchial civilization. This is why you need your society to remain patriarchial, in order to remain strong in the face of adversity.

    3) toxic masculinity is a non-term.
    Its not a real word and has no meaning.
    • Is just masculinity and femininity is just femininity.
      Toxic masculinity is about as real as toxic femininity. These are just characteristics and its not right to assign negarive or positive words with one, without doing it for the other.
      The bad stuff that men do has nothing to do with masculinity, just like the bad thing that women do has nothing to do with femininity.
      Bad people do bad things. Regardless of their gender. Gender is not the reason for evil in the world. If you actually believe in toxic masculinity , that conflicts with your own first point that feminists hate men. Because you are demonizing maleness and that would inevitable lead to a hatred of men

  • Maxemeister
    Never post pro feminist stuff on this website. I'm not saying I hate feminism I'm saying many people on here do so it's just a warning

    Although I do have some quarrels with this take it was well thought out. Thanks for the take
  • BCRanger10
    Feminists don't even agree on what feminism is and there is no patriarchy.

    Whatever you learned in that goofy behavior class will go right out the window once you leave school and get a job. Even so, one semester taught by a leftist ideologue does not make you - or HIM or HER (there are only two genders) for that matter - an expert.
  • ashtraymouth
    i feel like being because topics on equality have recently been focused of the female side of thing a lost of people don't understand feminism is about BOTH genders.
    • Feminism has NEVER been about both genders. It's already in the name. It was a manipulative trick to get the male population to support the movement.

      All you have to do is read what actual, powerful and influental feminists had to say. None of them care about men at all. Not now, not in the 60s, not during the Suffragettes

    • @FakeName123 yes but now a lot of people are saying "oh it's about both men and women coming together as equals" blah blah blah. and i get that it's a good thing but it gets too extreme sometimes

    • How's does claiming that something is something it is not make it any different? Lying about what something is makes it so? Feminism is not about how men and their influence oppress men and how men are to blame for everything because someone says so?

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  • EllezBellez98
    I think that this take shows the best side of feminism, there are some radical feminists, *cough Cough Lena Dunham, Which have discredited the movement. But this take is excellent. The only quarry I have is that you say gender is a social construct, but doesn't biology play a role. Women who become mothers, which in the animal kingdom are shown to be taking care of their young, whereas males hunt and bring in food (in our case money.) Though these roles are stupid and I don't want to spend my life just being a mother, aren't they biological, rather than social constructs?
    • Thank you so much. Of course biology plays a role, but gender is not synonymous with biological sex. What society defines is masculine or feminine is a social construct, which is gender. Admittedly I have a lot more to learn. Here is a website that has people saying why it is and others who are saying why it isn't. https://www.quora.com/Is-gender-a-social-construct

  • 0112358
    I agree with the part about how our culture shapes boys and men and what it demands of them.

    I feel like we are moving away from the stated goals of feminism when it comes to changes there. Hypermascinity is celebrated more now than it was 30 years ago imho.

    I have my own views as to why but they’re not popular.
  • godfatherfan
    Your first sentence ended and we knew this whole take was full of shit. Feminist are nazi men haters. If I hold the door for you it is because I am being a gentleman, not because I think you can't open a door. As soon as I hear the word feminist, I shut off the listening and move on to someone worth listening to.
  • ps747
    Also is not about women having or not hair. Also is not about women take pictures to magazines naked or not. For example recent case of Emma Watson, she was attacked because she show part of her boobs. And so what? It's actually a nice picture, sexy or not, she had a choice and that is what feminism should be about. I also saw some feminist criticising another ones because they shave. And so what? They want to shave let them shave.
  • AdmiralBailey
    • Some feminists are like what you said above. I am NOT. With so much history and controversy and various kinds of feminism it is hard to define it in a way that everyone agrees with.

    • Women will never get it. I give up

    • You probably should have broken your argument down into several different questions, possibly feminism should stop using these words like patriarchy, because most of the men on these sites are everyday working class citizens, the idea we dominate or control women is absurd. We barely have control over our own existence. Let alone orchestrate a bizarre conspiracy to oppress any people. Your source material should be studied in the context of ethics and the individuals who have perpetrated any injustices against a women, not all men.

  • shephardjhon
    The only thing that will make me not hate feminism is if you take back Christina Hoff Sommers and Erin Piezzy and throw out Andrea Dworkin, Big Red and most importantly and Anita Sarkasian.
    The last three are the face of feminism weather you like it or not.
    We Muslims don not let ourselves be represented by OBL, Taliban or Daesh.
    Why do you allow your movement to not just have extremists but let the extremists be the face of feminism?
  • RussianRebel
    If all feminists aren't man haters, why don't they disavow the ones who are? Why do they are the queens of double standards? Engage in that ideology is just an excuse for people keep being toxic in a self-righteous way.

    Feminists are not even capable of practice what they preach, they talk against hate but practice hate, they defend equality but want privileges, they demand respect but disrespect people, they condemn sexism but they are sexist.
  • FatherJack
    Women's Lib WAS needed back in the day , however , deliberately & by design , feminism has been hijacked by the well funded and supported man hating extremists , that are very much the leadership of this Cultural Marxist sub-branch movement , hence they primarily target males of European extraction. Why are there no feminists calling out the venom spewing from their leaders mouths / pens? The silence is deafening. Sexism affects men too , know this too damn well as a single dad !!
  • Max_winner1
    I really love how you want to destroy men's sense of pride by beating them over the head with this social fat in how boys should be girls and girls should be boys Bill shit. Please! It really makes me sick when the whole world has to bend over backwards to the 5% because they were born with cock and don't want to hurt their poor feelings.
    • I think there has been a misunderstanding. That is not at all what I am trying to do. Is it possible to change the title to "What Feminism Means to Me"?

  • oddwaffle
    You should do more research. You read a bit and called it the real deal.

    Don't force men into women education. Men have their own way of doing things and women should not interfere because women can not understand men just like men don't get women.
  • AD240pCharlie
    Gender roles are NOT a social construct. First of all, men and women have different brain structures supporting different behaviors, and brain scans on infants have shown us that these differences exist way before socialization comes into play. We have also done research on primates, showing us that most gender roles have their roots in our biology.
  • sovetskii13
    You will never understand. Maybe watch this

  • castratedwhiteguy
    Bullshit! Have you ever heard of concepts such as the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest, and "Darwinism"? This is why real men can't wimp out!" "Toxic masculinity" wins wars, establishes an honest moral code, and creates prosperity. Think about it!
    • UnaKaizen

      we are not in the jungle we love in civilized societies. mentally stabler people dont want nor agree war is an inevitability.

      honest moral code- do you know what happens in wars?

    • @UnaKaizen FYI, "toxic masculinity" protects civilized society from the barbarians at the gate! It takes a good barbarian to defeat an evil barbarian! That's a concept you ladies will never understand. Unless, of course, you are gang raped by a gang of evil barbarians. The pages of history are full of examples...

    • UnaKaizen

      barbarians to get rid of barbarians. you're trying to make a deal with the devil and expecting peace.

      wars are the main place people get gang raped. and you can't bring it to justice bc its 'military', then the guys come back and commit suicide bc they raped tortured and killed a 14 year old virgin from the village to dal with their 'feelings' that they are too manly to acknowledge. or he doesn't and instead kills his wife in his sleep or goes out and rapes bc it was socially sanctioned in the army. so now you have a rapist or a dead barbarian on your hands.

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  • OfDeath
    It is true thaten are told to man up and not be sensitive etc and that such isn't exactly kind but the world isn't kind.

    In order to succeed and overcome hardship, one needs to be hard.
    • UnaKaizen

      you can't overcome something you can't acknowledge. being strong requires emotional intelligence understanding of yourself and others. so you can deal in reality instead of being delusional. otherwise you're a ticking time bomb.

  • AllThatSweetJazz
    "Three things"
    Even a genuine interest in helping men doesn't mean you're doing the right thing. Especially if you believe in the feminist conception of patriarchy and toxic masculinity.

    "The Broverman Studies."
    So what? Assuming there's nothing wrong with the methodology, if it reflect reality then it's still irrelevant.

    "The Mask You Live In"
    That documentary was amazing. The irony was incredible. For an documentary about the harms of toxic masculinity it did an excellent job of refuting itself from what I recall. Amazing.

    "Bell Hooks."
    Well you're assuming Bell Hooks is an authority on anything, there's you're problem.

    "Stop crying!"
    I don't think most men are treated like that, but even if they were, do you know *why* they would be told that? As in the motivation that make people think it's valuable? The toxic masculinity explanation doesn't help, if anything it obfuscates.
    • I know what the explanation of toxic masculinity is and again, if anything it obfuscates.

      That blog is what I'm talking about with my first point -- and I say again, even a genuine interest in helping men doesn't mean you're doing the right thing. Especially if you believe in the feminist conception of patriarchy and toxic masculinity.

  • 10dsw
    Bla bla go away, no one cares about feminist mumbo-jumbo.

    Honest to God, it's hurting women more than it is helping women
  • MeatPuppet
    I entirely agree. However, I would argue that there is also such a thing as toxic feminity, which would be behavior forced upon women by the patriarchal paradigm and essentially equivalent and on par with toxic masculinity. What we should be talking about is toxic gender expectations.
    • UnaKaizen

      I agree. she left that out. but probably bc there's more anger from men about toxic masculinity. .. or she forgot ;p

  • Kiran04
    Stop reading at the word "patriarchy". That's all I really need to know about feminism, or all ANYONE needs to know about feminism. The blame a non-existent straw man for all of their problems, and that straw man is all men conveniently wrapped up in this buzzword you call "patriarchy". Feminism is cancer.
  • l33tboot3r
    I rather we work toward and more egalitarian society more so than anything. Right now we are working backward. Third-wave feminism is demeaning to the very name of equality. That's the type of feminism we are seeing today.
  • matchrestore
    I agree with a lot of your assessment of why we still need feminism. I consider myself a feminist and I find myself have to dispel the same myths far too often.
  • Browneye57
    Eww boy, what a crock.
    Feminism is ALL about hating men. The feminist goal is to reign power over men. Period.
  • Revolver_
    It is rumoured that every man secretly receives a patriarchy check in the mail each month. Feminist scholars are still trying to confirm this.
  • Pauliho
    I decided to read and actually take notice of this take...

    But as soon as I read"Gender is a social construct" I couldn't take this seriously at all.
  • Coconut_Man
    Gender is not a social construct and I don't believe in the Patriarchy. That's all make up by feminist in order to validate their "movement " .
  • Chief16
    Lulz, because all feminists attend that one same seminar where they all can agree what feminism is about... Hating men, that is. That's the only reason it survives today. We live in a post feminist era. It meant something once upon a time, now, its the gospel for sluts, baby killers (no, not pro choicers, not all of them), flakes and so on. If you wanna stay in the past, stay in the past. The rest of us got better things to do.
  • Wwwyzzerdd
  • savalisk
    You want me to apologize for being a guy and liking the things I like? Yeah, nah thanks.
    I couldn't take this seriously.