Heterophobia, the Discrimination People Are Afraid to Talk About

[ADFSDF1996]

Heterophobia(Which is basically discrimination against straight people) is something many people refuse to talk about because people start attaching labels to those that speak out against heterophobia. Before reading further, just note that I don’t have anything against LGBT people and I’m not saying every single LGBT person is a heterophobe. I’m simply criticizing a type of socially “acceptable” discrimination.

1.) Heterophobia is subtle

Some people might say “I don’t notice any heterophobia” or “this is just imagined discrimination.” The reason why it’s not noticeable is because it’s subtle. The heterophobes usually show it through movies, TV and social media.

2.) Heterosexual romance is being stigmatized

Nowadays, a straight male can’t even flirt with a woman without risking being called a “pervert” or being accused of sexual harassment. While a woman can flirt with other women and not face the similar stigma.

3.) False dilemma fallacy

Whenever someone tries to bring up the topic of heterophobia, they will usually be accused of being anti-lgbt even though there is nothing homophobic about speaking against heterophobia. This just like assuming all atheists are anti religious just because they don’t believe in a higher power.

4.) Claims that nobody is 100% straight

People have been finding it easy to try to convince the world that nobody is 100% straight. Alternatively they’ll try to convince people that every woman is either bisexual or Lesbian, unfortunately some people actually buy into that and feel like they have to rethink everything they once knew about women. This has gotten so out of control that various articles had to be posted, assuring people that there are 100% straight people. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2015/11/18/no-all-women-are-not-lesbians-science-be-damned/amp/

5.) Shaming people for practicing heterosexuality

The SJWs attempt to shame people for choosing to date other straight biological people. They are basically trying to force people to date someone they don’t want to date.

6.) Attempts to replace heterosexuality in the media

Not that long ago, a article was released that showed a artist re imagining iconic fictional heterosexual characters as gay. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with gay couples in fiction but just imagine the outrage if a artist reimagined fictional gay couples as heterosexual couples.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5286137/amp/Twitter-user-creates-LGBT-reinventions-Disney-classics.html

7.) Former gay people get disavowed

There are many stories were some people who use to be gay, turned straight. These people tell stories of how the people that once supported them when they lived a LGBT lifestyle, suddenly turned against them once they turned straight. And yes, there are people who have turned straight. http://www.josephnicolosi.com/collection/celebrities-who-have-left-a-gay-lifestyle

8.) Using the cherry picking argument

Yes, this is another fallacy people use to silence people who come up with a lot of proof. It doesn’t matter how many articles, videos prove heterophobia is real, there is always those few people who will scream “Quit cherry picking!” just because they have no way to disprove them.

9.) Claiming straight men are incompetent when attracting women

Usually SJWs like to claim that men are not good enough for women. The far left wing media likes to claim that women are “much better looking” than men, are able to sexually satisfy women better than men etc.

10.) There are a few extremist cases

Even though most heterophobia is subtle, there are a few cases where the person is very open and vocal about their heterophobia like Julie Bindel who wants to put an end to heterosexuality and put men in “special camps”. It’s scary that some people still think like that. What she said is inappropriate and repugnant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hequal.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/hateful-guardian-writer-julie-bindel-proposes-feminazi-concentration-camps-for-all-men/amp/

11.) Heterophobia has links to misandry

It seems that both heterophobes and misandrists not only want to destroy heterosexual romance but they also want to limit the interaction men have with women because the SJWs assume all men are violent, sleazy and abusive. https://www.google.com/amp/metro.co.uk/2017/02/23/banning-men-from-approaching-women-isnt-the-answer-to-our-massive-sexual-harassment-problem-6465994/amp/

Overall, I don’t think putting straight people and LGBT people against each other is going to solve anything. Most people want a pluralistic society but can’t achieve it because of seperatism. Putting straight people and LGBT against each other will only lead to mistrust and intolerance between both sides. In order for discrimination to end we have to learn to accept each other’s differences regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, politics etc but it’s easier said than done.

[Guanfei]

You're going to be shamed for that opinion. We're in 2017. Heterosexual people, men mostly, are considered evil. You hear more and more idiots saying that the norm is now being trans or gay, and that heteros are "a remnant of the past".
I've even been told I was homophobic because I wasn't gay.

[MyAtlantis]

GREAT myTake. I love it and I totally agree with you. Good job!

[ladsin]

I think this is quite silly. There's no legal movements to revoke rights from heterosexual couples. There's no government going around rounding up heterosexuals torturing and killing them in the night. There's no school administrators saying that they want all heterosexuals to kill themselves. There aren't billions of people saying that heterosexuals just because of who they're attracted to.
That said I'll still respond to a few of your points, because perhaps there's some confusion that I could help clear up. I suppose one of the biggest things that we'd need to agree on is about the definition of discrimination. I'm fine with the first dictionary definition I got of, "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." Most of these don't appear to fit that definition to me. If you think they do, perhaps point out which and why we can discuss further. Going forward I'll address the points I think I should by numbering them as you did.
2.) I find this humorous. This seems like a trope that has no basis in reality to me. I've seen men talking about this, "how am I supposed to talk to women? Everything I say is considered harassment now!" While I'm sure it's possible that some people are overly sensitive this does not seem to be the case for most people to me. Women are being asked to be treated with common decency. Don't come up to them and touch them without permission. Don't talk about their ass in the workplace. Don't offer quid pro quo for occupational advancement etc.
4.) Just as a psychologist this one is annoying to me. Research has shown that most people are not strictly hetero or homo. In fact research appears to show that sexuality is on a continuum. If you want info look into the Kinsey studies.
5.) As with the first I find this one humorous. I admit that I have seen one or two posts on social media about this, but I can hardly take it seriously. Same as with racial preferences in dating.
6.) This is fan fiction. Don't know what it has to do with prejudice or unfair treatment.
7.) I looked into the website and it was quite a shit show with quite a few having purportedly incredibly sexually abused or their careers being stifled because they came out as gay, pan, or bi before they came out saying they were hetero again. I don't know much what to do with anecdotal claims. I deal with research, and best we can tell sexuality is "locked in" by the age of ~5 and is --

[ladsin]

relatively immutable throughout life. One problem I do have with this subject is that the idea can lead to conversion therapy. Practices like electricuting gays to try and get them to turn hetero. Forcing gays to deny their attraction in order to have a family. Kidnapping children in the night and flying them to a separate country to basically be tortured into renouncing their attraction. Etc.
10.) There are extremist cases of everything, and in most cases I'm pretty sure that people are being hyperbolic, but again this doesn't match the definition of discrimination.
11.) This again seems like a trope that isn't evidenced.
Anyway. If you read I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[ADFSDF1996]

That’s because heterophobia is practiced differently than homophobia. How would you feel if somebody told you that homophobia is not real? Your basically providing no proof to support your perspective when you address each point aside from “I disagree”.

First you use the white knight fallacy by assuming I’m some kind of misogynist which is a ad hominem, then you try to prove something that has not enough research by saying that “sexuality is on a spectrum”. If that’s the case then most people are on the far side of heterosexuality. When people say “everyone a little bit gay”, it’s only a joke it’s not meant to be serious. Next you use a non sequitur by saying point number 6 is fan fiction without even addressing it and lastly you stoop so low by refusing to acknowledge misandry is real. There are plenty of statistics out there and real life scenarios that prove the authenticity of misandry.

[ladsin]

1.) I would point out circumstances which demonstrate that in fact demonstrate that homosexuals on a notable scale are being treated prejudicialy or unfairly. To reiterate, "There's no legal movements to revoke rights from heterosexual couples. There's no government going around rounding up heterosexuals torturing and killing them in the night. There's no school administrators saying that they want all heterosexuals to kill themselves. There aren't billions of people saying that heterosexuals just because of who they're attracted to."
2.) I can't prove a negative. I just gave my responses to why I think that your claims don't fit the definition.
3.) White knighting isn't a fallacy. I had never heard of it and googled it to see if perhaps I wasn't aware of a logical fallacy. I get that it is fun to call people out for logically fallacious arguments. That doesn't mean you get to make them up. XD
4.) I never said nor implied that you are a misogynist. If you make things up again there's-

[ladsin]

no point in conversing with you. If you're just being a troll let me know. I don't need to waste my time.
5.) There's a lot of research that sexuality is on a continuum. Hence I referenced the Kinsey studies. Would you like me to provide links for you? I can, it just seems to me that it would be relatively easy for you to google it yourself.
6.) This also isn't a nonsequitor. I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that you're just repeating words that you've heard before.
7.) Provide those statistics and I'll look into it.

[ADFSDF1996]

White knighting is usually used when a man defends a the oppposite sex just because they are female even if said female is wrong. On paper it’s not a fallacy but it is still used like one by many guys. This usually happens on the internet when a female is debating with a man then another man comes to take her side even if she’s wrong. This is white knighting. The term is fairly new but it might be included as a fallacy in the near future.

[ladsin]

That's the idea I got from googling it. It's not a recognized fallacy, and I didn't do it regardless.

[ADFSDF1996]

Here’s the newer definition of a white knight. www.google.com/.../define.php%3fterm=White+Knight&=true

[ADFSDF1996]

Now to address your other points.
1.) you clearly didn’t read the part where I said heterophobia is practiced differently than homophobia. It’s more subtle.
2.) What I originally said is that there are people who claim that nobody is 100% straight without any proof. If it were vice versa, there would most certain be outrage.

[ADFSDF1996]

There’s no point arguing with you if you are just going to ignore everything I say, this debate is over.

[ladsin]

1.) I did read it, I then provided the definition of discrimination and described why I thought you didn't demonstrate that heterosexuals are being discriminated against.
2.) There is evidence that most people aren't 100% either way. That means that most people aren't 100% hetero or homo. Do you see me receiving outrage at that claim?

[ladsin]

If you don't want to discuss it that's fine. I'm quite certain that I've been perfectly rational in all the points I made, but I don't have any illusions of convincing everyone of rationality or my points. I enjoy discussion, but oftentimes it can be pointless to continue a discussion. For example when someone starts to make up logical fallacies and point out nonexistent ones. If we can't have a decent discussion then I agree that there is no point in continuing.

[ADFSDF1996]

You won’t receive outrage here because not many people will read that, if you say it on Twitter then you would receive varying levels of outrage depending on your popularity.

[ADFSDF1996]

Here’s the part that got the debate heated. I’m quoting what you said “While I'm sure it's possible that some people are overly sensitive this does not seem to be the case for most people to me. Women are being asked to be treated with common decency. Don't come up to them and touch them without permission. Don't talk about their ass in the workplace. Don't offer quid pro quo for occupational advancement etc” that’s why I assumed you were calling me a perverted misogynist amd why I brought up the topic of “white knighting”.

When trying to explain something, don’t make it seem like you are attacking the other person, that’s the ad hominem.

[ADFSDF1996]

So yes, I think this debate needs to end before it gets more heated. As for statistics, I’ll tell you what I told the other guy I was debating with and that is that you should be able to search them on your own as long as you keep an open mind.

[ladsin]

If anyone is getting heated I assure you that it's an emotion only felt on your side. I'm just sitting at home having a few drinks after work.

I merely reiterated what I've heard and presumed that women want. If you have evidence that men are being locked up or called chauvinistic pigs or any other such derogatory thing for acting in a completely innocent manner, (ie saying hello to a woman) then feel free to present it. I'd be right on your side saying that that is ridiculous.

[ADFSDF1996]

I’ve read plenty of articles that discuss cases where men get fired from their jobs, get berated Just for saying hello. That’s the reason why men are now afraid to talk to women.

[ladsin]

I'm a man and not afraid to talk to women. I do think that there are cases in which men are treated unfairly ie Title IX legislation, but that doesn't have anything to do with heterosexuality.

[ADFSDF1996]

How about the fact that international men’s day is not recognized by the UN but international women’s day is? Or the fact that courts favor women over men when it comes to custody battles. Then there’s also the fact male victims of abuse are laughed at.

[ladsin]

That's not discrimination against fit heterosexuals, but men. I would agree about that. Like I said, also in regards to Title IX legislation

[ADFSDF1996]

Discrimination against heterosexuals is mostly verbal. You’re right that there aren’t laws that target heterosexuals but it is still socially acceptable to berate heterosexual people and not face societal backlash.

[ladsin]

Possible, I just haven't seen any evidence that that is prolific. As I stated I have no doubt that some individuals may say negative things about heterosexuals. I just have no way of verifying their seriousness, and I don't think it can count as discrimination as it's not having any effect on a large scale.

On the other hand, there are certainly things that I think are discriminatory towards males, but not all males are heterosexual or in heterosexual relationships. There's a difference between the two.

[_乃尺OЩ刀_TITI]

I won't make this too long but most of the points raised here seem to be the same tactics used by SJW themselves.. Claiming discrimination from say, ''microaggressions'', same way you had based it on your 1st example
'1.) Heterophobia is subtle'... Cmon, It's a stand up comedy dude! a joke!.. I'd be shocked if someone straight got offended from this and called it heterophbia!

Another example is
''Attempts to replace heterosexuality in the media''
It's a series of imagery from one random twitter user, called harleivy. So what!.. Something so small can't be put on a case for a plot in attempt to replace heterosexuality in the media with a motive due hetero-phobia.. Especially if we don't even know what the motive is for her gay illustrations, but it seems to me because he/she is into Disney and translated it into homosexual couples where they feel more related.

now there are serious ones from the list
'Former gay people get disavowed'
a case of social isolation.. I was looking forward to read the link you've provided but it's just list of celebrity who were used to be gay and bisexual. Not first hand cases of discriminated ex gays and the author was an advocate for conversion therapy. Sorry, can't take seriously who advocate for non-sense.

''There are a few extremist cases''
The one with the radical feminist, hateful.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I think its mostly due to misandry, they just hate men so much that they push for this. You also have the post modernist mindset that demands the destruction of pretty much everything that was once held as valuable or ideal. Its pretty messed up. Hell you even have it were gay men will hit on a guy to the point of sexually harassing him but if the guy speaks up he is suddenly "homophobic", apparently these people think men should just be sexually assaulted and stay silent. Its pretty messed up. Also the whole every one is bi thing is absurd, if that's the case, if every one is not 100% straight would that mean then that not every one is 100% gay? That means homosexuals are choosing to be homosexuals since no one is 100% anything. Its contradictory, its not a choice and they cannot help it but if your straight your not really straight, its a choice you just haven't been willing to try it. Absurd.

[Pink934]

I would agree here. So glad someone's brought this up.

Also if these people are so proud to be gay with their gay pride movement, why can't we have straight pride? For those who are perfectly happy to be... straight.

Or, even better, why don't we abolish it all and stop rubbing LGBTQRYFGFKDKXYZ in everyone's faces and just live like normal folks?

I'm not a fan of any of it in case you haven't guessed, and that includes Nazi feminism. Put it all in the bin.

[EllezBellez98]

Here's what I notice. Making a straight joke is totally fine, but a gay joke is off limits. How is that equal? You can see the same with race, gender and religion. It's bullshit.

[AD240pCharlie]

My best friend was raped by another man and because of his trauma, he is disgusted by everything relating to homosexuality. He's always very clear that he doesn't think that being gay is wrong in any way and he doesn't think that anyone should be discriminated against because of what they're attracted to, he just cannot stand the idea because of his trauma. But any time he mentions this in a conversation, he gets accused of being a homophobe.
But then we have another friends of mine who's female and was raped twice by two different men. She also feels the same way about men and is therefore a lesbian now. But apparently, it's nothing wrong with her not being comfortable with the idea of heterosexuality despite it being for the exact same reason.

[vishna]

I think the fact that ~3/4 or more of the links you provided are opinion pieces says a lot about your argument.

I'm straight and have never in my life experienced straight hate... but it's not all about me.

Also I think 1 is a bad example, it's comedy, there are shit tons of gay jokes in stand up, why not some straight jokes. Also, it's comedy?

2. where, how can you back this up? I'm not gay so I don't know enough about lesbian courting to make a claim like that, how do you?

Then you say"The SJWs attempt to shame people for choosing to date other straight biological people. They are basically trying to force people to date someone they don’t want to date." can you back this up? Do you have any proof in your entire MyTake?

Do some people, some very small minority of people dislike straight people, yes, I'm sure of it. But is this something that threatens you and me and other straight people, hell no.

[ADFSDF1996]

Just like several people who have disagreed with me on this topic, you also use the Argumentum ad lapidem.

[vishna]

you make claims, you have the burden of proof

[ADFSDF1996]

It’s self evident. The proof is right there but you automatically dismiss it as fake just because it doesn’t support your views. In my personal opinion anyone who constantly demands proof, is just too lazy to do the research on their own. There’s plenty of proof out there but I’m not going to do the research for you.

[Carbon-12]

Every one has biases. Meaning every group will have some form of stigma around them, varying from person to person. Some groups have a larger number of people with negative stigma around them so they are the ones we hear about. It's a thing, unfortunately I don't really see a way to get rid of it because people tend to bring other down when trying to build others up. Look at the "curvy, love you body" thing, they go around prompting women to love their bodies while half of them are telling skinny girls they're disgusting.
All individuals can do is try and love everyone equally, and not support hate.

[Espolare2000]

It's fucked up when one form of discrimination is rightly vilified but another is socially Acceptable. Bigots are bigots no matter what their sexuality, race, religion or nationanality

[grimtigress]

there's literally nothing disrespectful about this. yeah some people do it, and it's a little sad you even had to emphasize that you meant only some and not all- who're part of the lgbt community. it's just as closed minded to claim that heterophobia can't exist, but homophobia and many others can. it fits the definition of prejudice and hypocrisy perfectly. they think they're defending shit for some noble cause, but they're not. some of these fuckers are just not very bright crayons lol

[Punzie_]

Strangely enough, while I have witnessed heterophobia, we all have, those who are victims to it will be less likely to be triggered and offended and make a big deal about it... Vs homophobia its a bigger deal and as one person said in here, more of a louder issue with media and all so therefore why care about the victims of heterophobia? Its not like they matter

[cavmanier]

Great points about a topic never talked about similar to how I only hear about the importance of getting women into tech while people over 45 are even less common. I agree. It's odd how the media picks who they advocate for which ends up getting the recognition platforms.

[Steakisbomb]

A lot of nuanced things are not okay to talk about. Racism against Asian people and then trying to classify everything left of Japan and right of Germany as Asia. Or racism against european people. Heck if you are Irish you aren't considered white, you have a ethnic group smaller than any on earth. One of the smallest minorities in existence. But your history doesn't matter because it's okay to say you're the bad parts of white so there's this unlimited well of hate people can draw from. But if you are a straight Irish guy, you're pretty much a non human to most people. Like the slaves on planet of the apes.

But, I just remain grateful that the rudeness of hate gets attention even if the hateful wish things could fit the mold they keep poorly marketing. Or that it gets documented. Morihei Ushiba said it best that eventually the gauntlet of violence runs out of participants. Stay in the garden and work on your self instead.

[Chantel77]

I dislike the one how people say everyone's bi, if that's the case then there's really no LGBTQ community since everyone's in it, right

[0112358]

I really don’t see it.

Some of the things you claim I don’t buy.

The ones I agree with apply only to heterosexual men and -also- apply to gay men but don’t apply to women.

[ADFSDF1996]

That’s because there’s a connection between heterophobia and misandry.

[cherryphi82]

I have never come across that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I think that in terms of numbers, heterosexual people outnumber gay people, so why worry.

[Guanfei]

Because today, the number doesn't mean anything. It's the ones you hear who have the power. And nowadays, the LGBT community made sure to be heard. While a minority, they can't be criticized without being labelled as something-phobic.
Meanwhile, criticizing heteros, and even insulting them, isn't even seen as bad.

[Kai02]

No one is heterophobic. Being heterosexual is the norm and has been for eternity.
No one is trying to replace heterosexual couples in the media. We're trying to change it from being 35 straight couples and 1 gay couple every few years to being equal.

There is no such thing as heterophobia. No one is getting disowned by their parents because they're straight. No one uses "straight" as an insult. No one has to hide the fact that they're straight in fear of being hurt, abused or worse.

[ADFSDF1996]

There’s a reason why I said it’s subtle.

[ADFSDF1996]

I could literally give endless examples of heterophobia and that still wouldn’t convince certain people that heterophobia is indeed real. No offense but what you are saying is just biased misinformation that ignores the points that opposing views make, which is known as a red herring.

[Kai02]

Someone can dislike heterosexuals, or think they're jerks. Thats a thing.
But homophobia isn't just not liking homosexuals. I can say "I don't like gay people" and not talk to them, but thats kinda just me being a jerk.
Homophobia is preventing someone something they have the right to because they are not straight. Homophobia is parents disowning their children and kicking them out of their home because they don't like the opposite sex. Homophobia is parents abusing their daughter for loving another woman. Homophobia is a man losing his job because he kissed another man.

No one has beaten their child for loving the opposite sex. No one has lost their job for it. No one has denied a male and female the right to marry.

You're right, it is subtle. But its so subtle and uncommon its not heterophobia, its just one or two people being assholes. Its not the same as homophobia and never will be.

[ADFSDF1996]

I’m referring to the original definition of heterophobia which is “fear or aversion to”. While both Heterophobia and homophobia share the same definition on paper, they are practiced differently.

[1derfulguy]

Um... Several of the examples you bring up target men, not straight people. Is your Take about misandry or heterophobia?

[ADFSDF1996]

Both.

[somewheresomeway]

Is there ANYTHING a straight man can do nowadays without being wrong?

[John_Doesnt]

You must love the PC Principal:
cominsitu.files.wordpress.com/.../...privilege.jpg