I am pro life because it is how we are created. From biological view our purpose in life is to give birth and make population go on. I am Christian also. I live where abortion is legal. But I think it should remain legal. We can't force someone to do what I think or someone think is right thing. For me it is moral question. But everybody should have choice. Every human being loves to be born and to live. I don't judge womens who abort, I am just very sorry for baby and that fact it will probably haunt them someday. I know people who are affected by what they did. My grandma is one of them. She is now very old and she talks about aborted kids often. It is torturing her. I wish no one will ever do it but won't judge.
Sure that's good at least. But obviously not everyone loves having been born or living, that's why a lot of people commit suicide. Just a slight correction.
As a Christian what do you think about the law of jealousy in Numbers 5 in which a jealous husband basically forces his wife to abort a pregnancy?
I think everybody loves to be born. Maybe later in life some people change mind due to mental issues or difficult circumstances. I wish nobody abort but I think women has to have choice. Even wrong one in my opinion. If it is illegal it won't make it people not do it. It will make people do with questionable doctors and risk would be bigger for patient.
Curious - 1) have you ever been pregnant and seen an ultrasound (you know the first one where it looks like a grain of rice with a heartbeat)? 2) And have you ever been to an abortion clinic? With someone (or yourself) that is about to go through an abortion?
Here’s my opinion. There is situations in which abortion is needed. Medical problems, rape, or poor mothers. A baby is better taken out of this world than born into a life of hell. And yes, there is adoption, but some mothers just can’t go through with it, whether it be financial costs or emotional burden. I think that early termination is best, as I’ve heard horror stories about late term (and it is more invasive, and has a risk of leaving the baby alive but badly disabled.) I have seen pictures of every stage of miscarriage and I know they’re all tiny humans, but I guess some things just have to be done. But we do not want to ban abortion, as it will only bring back unsafe, backally abortions, which I have watched documentaries on and I can attest to the horrors of that.
Nice take on the topic. I think it's pretty normal for a woman to decide if she wants to keep the baby or not. And I don't think she should be blamed for her choice, whatever it is.
If she was raped, then yes. If she just had sex with her boyfriend and decides she doesn't want the responsibility. Then no, she can't have an abortion because that is morally wrong.
@MasterAetos You know that birth control doesn't always work, right? Condoms break, pills don't always work, even sterilization isn't secure. Pregnancy can change so much in someone's life, I understand why some wouldn't find it appropriate at some moments.
The matter here is simple; if one is not ready for child rearing, then one shouldn't have sex or use contraception. Furthermore, if contraception were to fail, I would follow through with pregnancy and put the child up for adoption, either be a ward of the State or some other family who can't have children. I think it's extremely selfish for someone to be fertile but to shy away from the responsibility and have an abortion whereas someone else wants children but is infertile. Wouldn't this person appreciate raising a life as their own? It's also not entirely up to the woman either, the man also gets a say and if he's pro-life, then you better watch out.
@MasterAetos I don't care what you would do, fact is, you can't so why the hell do you get any say in what other women want to do with their bodies? Of course someone who is infertile would appreciate bringing a child up they adopted, I'm 100% agreeing with you on that and I'd advise every single woman to consider that, but not everyone wants to have a child to have to give it away. And actually, where I'm from and every other place that has legal abortions, it is up to the woman and the guy gets no say (legally) whatsoever, women have the right to deprive men from having a say at all, so no need for me to watch out. I would never abort myself, but even if I wanted too I could no matter who says what, thanks tho.
A baby's body is not the mom's body. A baby is a different human. A mom has every right to not make that other person in the first place. 74% of pregnancies that end in abortion are due to a lack of moms preventing those babies being made according to the women who were having the procedure done. They reported that they did not use any birth control at all in 50% of cases or used it inconsistently or improperly in 24% of cases. This is according to the world renowned Guttmacher Institute for Reproductive Health. I would be happy with people simply not making babies they do not want in the first place. I think a mom should be blamed if she makes the choice to kill a child she could have chosen to not make. Taking away blame does not promote responsibility.
I feel that, because of the impact on the woman, this … is a matter which is of such fundamental and basic concern to the woman involved that she should be allowed to make the choice as to whether to continue or to terminate her pregnancy. Exactly why I've always supported abortion rights.
Except pregnancy is largely a choice these days with a plethora of birth control methods and plan B. You make it sound as if pregnancy is random misfortune. Having unprotected sex is an invitation for the fetus to live and grow in their body unless they're completely ignorant to their own biology.
In the end, it's probably for the best if these people don't procreate, so them killing their own children is a win-win after all.
Birth control isn't always effective. It's actually quite ineffective if you think about it.
That said if you're not going to try and impose that a woman remain pregnant despite her wishes then I don't mind. Whether you find it to be immoral or a bad idea doesn't bother me. Whether or not you try to
Yeah, I certainly don't think banning abortion is the solution, but it should be more stigmatized than it is. The adoption system needs a reform, and I'm sure there's other solutions people could come up with too.
From my anecdotal experience, most accidental pregnancies are from negligence. E. g. people not pulling out in time, forgetting to take a pill, taking a drug that interferes with birth control, unprotected sex involving alcohol... the list goes on.
I just think abortion is gross 9 times out of 10, and it's very disheartening seeing so many women so fervently defend their right to kill their unborn just because their future existence would be an inconvenience to them; especially when they could just take extra precautions to prevent themselves from getting pregnant in the first place. Good luck getting pregnant using the calendar method, the pill, and condoms all together.
The pill is determined to only be about ~80% effective and condoms upwards of 90% if I recall correctly. Let's just say they're 99% effective though to give you the benefit of the doubt. If a couple were having sex twice a week for a year that would mean they'd had sex just south of 100 times in a year. That's already one baby, but we know that pregnancy on it's own isn't that likely so we can drop it another 90%. That means within a few years a couple would be almost guaranteed to become pregnant. Multiply that by a few million people and you have a lot of unintended pregnancies. Whether or not something is moral I think to be largely irrelevant. It may be moral for me to give you my kidney, that doesn't mean I should be obligated to do so.
Perhaps that is the experimental probability, but as I said before many people misuse it, so 80% could be correct but it's only because they're not taking it as intended.
I know I said 99%, but the claim is actually 99.99%. So a couple would have to have sex on the pill 10,000 times (likely on separate days) for it to be guaranteed to fail. That's every day for 27 years. But that's pointless anyway, since as I said before it's only 99.99% so companies don't get sued, when the actual theoretical probability is 100% as long as it is used properly.
I tried looking for some other reasons why it could fail, and the only other possibility that wasn't user error was possibly chronic diarrhea. And that really only applies to people with IBS. Even on planned parenthood's website they state that it's actual effectiveness rate is 91% down from 99% because "it can be hard to be perfect."
When used in conjunction with other methods it is impossible to get pregnant.
@ladsin A quick comment about your statistics for effectiveness of contraceptives; the percentages are usually for the chance of a woman correctly using the method over the course of a year getting pregnant. (There are also figures for how well they work in practice, which bring the long-term methods to to top of the list.)
@goaded Yup, as I've said previously, planned parenthood says the pill has a 91% prevention rate. I acknowledge that as a reality, though I attribute it to user error, and not a deficiency on the product's part.
Also, if you follow those statistics, if you use an IUD in conjunction with the pill, then the failure rate should be somewhere around.07% or 7 in 10,000.
1/5 women get pregnant from using condoms? Why do people even bother using them then?
If you use the pill and an IUD, you're probably either going to screw up your system with an excess of hormones, or get the same effectiveness as an IUD with progestogen (2 in 1000). You don't get to just multiply the percentages.
People use condoms because they're a lot better than nothing, improve the odds when used with another form of BC, and reduce the risks of catching STIs. And because they want to have sex, of course.
Oh, and in countries where they don't educate their children properly, they're probably the only mechanism available to, or possibly even known to, young people. Can a 17 year old girl walk into her family's doctor's and get an IUD or implant where you live?
For anyone against abortion please read this comment. Are you willing to let a tick live on you for 9 months? how about a leech? tapeworm? guinea fish? toothpick fish? lamprey eel? literally any living thing that consumes energy of it's host to grow and live? if you answered no to any of the above you are a hypocrite because removing it is abortion. *drops microphone*
by the way good take I like the spin you put on it and the view you looked at it from. Logical emotionless the best way to look at problems that are controversial.
I would use PREVENTION to avoid those things in the first place like a normal person... Also, a tiny human is not an animal. We can hunt, slaughter, and eat animals. Long pig is usually frowned upon for people to kill...
I whole heartedly agree. A woman's body is HER body. You don't get to tell us what to do with OUR Zbody. And that's basically it. That's the whole thing. Sorry it pisses some people off, but get over it. Abortion will never be illegal anyway.
Which is extremely close-minded, it's your body, but if you don't want kids. Either don't have sex or use contraception. You can't have pleasure without consequences, nothing in life can come without a cost of some kind. Outside of any other instance, I would agree that it's your body but you just don't want to think about the simple fact that you are willfully taking another human life. Outside of a rape case, abortion is morally wrong.
Next what if your partner wants the child? Don't you think about the man's rights? He provided you the seed to grow that child after all.
@martinxcv Yeah, I see that even more these days. It's always about feminism but masculinity has taken a steep dive. No one cares about us men anymore and what we think. Everything has taken a paradigm shift.
@martinxcv respect both of your opinions. Fact of the matter is, this is a battle you're never going to win. Abortion will NEVER be illegal. Fight something else. Like gun control, which I'm SURE you're against. But human life is so sacred, right? 🙄 Give me a break.
Trisha, i first of all refer you to my first reply, it is being made illegal around the world or at least toughen up the law. I support further gun control but i do not live in USA.
@martinxcv Texas, in particular, is so lax about gun control; they carry guns everywhere there. Yet it's no wonder that the U. S has the highest count of murder and mass shootings.
A baby's body is not the mom's body. A baby is a different human. These same people who are all for bodily autonomy often mutilate little boy penises and poke holes in child ears in my country. A mom has every right to not make that other person in the first place. 74% of pregnancies that end in abortion are due to a lack of moms preventing those babies being made according to the women who were having the procedure done. They reported that they did not use any birth control at all in 50% of cases or used it inconsistently or improperly in 24% of cases. This is according to the world renowned Guttmacher Institute for Reproductive Health. I would be happy with people simply not making babies they do not want in the first place.
@martinxcv Dude, I saw you in the other post but damn, we've got a very similar mentality. I see things the same way. Women in America choose to have abortions when they are 21 weeks along in their pregnancy and by that point, the fetus has already begun to develop defined features and looks like a person. It's evil to just end an innocent, unborn life because somebody doesn't want the responsibility. I'm trying to think of an analogy to encapsulate my point about why abortion is wrong but I'm coming up short for the moment. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, their purpose is to heal, not to kill. I really wish women would understand that.
@MasterAetos sorry if i offended you boys. I want to be clear on this for me... i would only abored a baby if i knew he or she would suffer from an illness that would allow her or him not to live inside me only. BUT NO NEVER WOULD I GIVE MY BABY TO A MATCHINE JUST BC OF AN OOPS... ITS A BLESSING TO HAVE A BABY! And he or she is in me and i choose his or her life... over me. Dont agree with abortion and never will. My own opinion.
Whoa, I never thought about it that way. The pro-life/pro-choice debate has always been one that I struggle to address, since it seems impossible to choose “the right thing,” (that said, I’ve always leaned toward pro-choice) but I think you explained this very well. Thanks!
As a libertarian on just about all domestic issues, people can do whatever they want in the parameters of the law as long as it doesn't affect me directly or personally. That includes not using MY tax dollars. I may disagree morally, but law is law so I abstain legally... as long as "your body" and "your choice" also includes "your money". After all, I abort billions of potential lives almost every day and I don't ask the government to pay me for it...
@TheUglyMan Those laws were struck down by the Supreme Court (rightfully and correctly so). Row v. Wade was ruled lawful. I get your argument, but poor example.
Government funding is just practical, but so long as you're not going to try and push legislation to force women to remain pregnant against their wishes I don't much care.
I've been in actual real-life, first-hand, personal situations where I was on both sides of the argument. Along with most things in life, it should be case by case, and not painted with one big brush.
You mean like choosing to create a human they could have avoided creating only to kill it later? Hmmm... That's like saying women have the right to drink and drive and they have the right to not go to jail when they kill someone...
So, where do you draw the line between a fetus/ clump of cells and a person? At birth?
So 10 minutes before birth it doesn't count?
The fetus in the mother's womb has a nerve system and can feel things like - pain , like when it's being chopped up and vacuumed out, just for no other reason that the mother didn't keep her legs closed
The whole point of the bodily rights argument is that whether or not a fetus is a person is irrelevant... Did you bother to read it or no? It's a really short one I promise, but that was covered quite well.
I agree. Women should be able to choose abortion no matter their reason whether it be because the child's father is a different race, or the child is the wrong sex, or the child may have health problems
I'm probably choices simply because it's my body and I'm the only one that has to live with the choices I make.. I'm not pro choice for late term abortion but things happen in life and the choice should be available.. I shouldn't have to fight or defend my right.. If I'm raped and get pregnant I shouldn't have to carry that child to term. I'm not saying it's right or wrong all I'm saying is I should have the right to choose..
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
No one should have the right to do something that is morally wrong. All rights are subjective anyway. For example, people used to have the right to own slaves. They are argued for "property rights." Weren't the slaves their property? Today, we debate gun owner rights. Does the constitution explicitly grant that "right to bear arms? There is no corresponding "body" rights in the constitution. I think the argument based on "body rights" is a weak one.
If you don't think you have the rights to self autonomy or "bodily rights" then I'm sure an argument that appeals to them wouldn't be convincing to you.
Its not right. But do you really want to bring a child into this sick world? Is it not better to save a child from seeing all this. In 20 years time this world is going to be a great vicious fuckup
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I still don’t accept the hypocrisy of being anti second admendment (if you are American) and the same time being pro choice.
Not throwing shade. But can somebody logically explain to me how it’s okay to kill a baby fetus and yet it’s not okay to own a gun?
Don’t cowardly downvote me, tell me the logic in that?
by the way - I know some pro choicers are okay with guns but many of them are hypocritically not.
I don't know any liberals who are anti-gun. I know many who are proponents of better legislation in regards to keeping guns "well-regulated", a vocal minority who appear in the media who are against gun ownership, and conservatives that seem to equate the two.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
39Opinion
I am pro life because it is how we are created. From biological view our purpose in life is to give birth and make population go on.
I am Christian also. I live where abortion is legal. But I think it should remain legal.
We can't force someone to do what I think or someone think is right thing. For me it is moral question. But everybody should have choice.
Every human being loves to be born and to live.
I don't judge womens who abort, I am just very sorry for baby and that fact it will probably haunt them someday.
I know people who are affected by what they did.
My grandma is one of them. She is now very old and she talks about aborted kids often. It is torturing her. I wish no one will ever do it but won't judge.
Sure that's good at least. But obviously not everyone loves having been born or living, that's why a lot of people commit suicide. Just a slight correction.
As a Christian what do you think about the law of jealousy in Numbers 5 in which a jealous husband basically forces his wife to abort a pregnancy?
Never heard about that in my life
Ah, it's a lesser known chapter, you should read it.
(Study of the Old Testament varies by sect of Christianity. Some reject it outright.)
I think everybody loves to be born. Maybe later in life some people change mind due to mental issues or difficult circumstances. I wish nobody abort but I think women has to have choice. Even wrong one in my opinion. If it is illegal it won't make it people not do it. It will make people do with questionable doctors and risk would be bigger for patient.
Curious - 1) have you ever been pregnant and seen an ultrasound (you know the first one where it looks like a grain of rice with a heartbeat)?
2) And have you ever been to an abortion clinic? With someone (or yourself) that is about to go through an abortion?
Here’s my opinion. There is situations in which abortion is needed. Medical problems, rape, or poor mothers. A baby is better taken out of this world than born into a life of hell. And yes, there is adoption, but some mothers just can’t go through with it, whether it be financial costs or emotional burden. I think that early termination is best, as I’ve heard horror stories about late term (and it is more invasive, and has a risk of leaving the baby alive but badly disabled.) I have seen pictures of every stage of miscarriage and I know they’re all tiny humans, but I guess some things just have to be done. But we do not want to ban abortion, as it will only bring back unsafe, backally abortions, which I have watched documentaries on and I can attest to the horrors of that.
media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif
Nice take on the topic. I think it's pretty normal for a woman to decide if she wants to keep the baby or not. And I don't think she should be blamed for her choice, whatever it is.
Actually no it is not normal, it goes against natural. Honestly women on this site are ignorant and lack IQ.
Oh yes why blame women for anything, who should we be blaming for your choices, after all you make them.
If she was raped, then yes. If she just had sex with her boyfriend and decides she doesn't want the responsibility. Then no, she can't have an abortion because that is morally wrong.
@MasterAetos there's so many methods of contraceptives.
@TheUglyMan Yes, but why don't women use them?
@MasterAetos You know that birth control doesn't always work, right? Condoms break, pills don't always work, even sterilization isn't secure. Pregnancy can change so much in someone's life, I understand why some wouldn't find it appropriate at some moments.
@MasterAetos Actually, yes she can, just because she wasn't raped doesn't mean she can't have an abortion.
The matter here is simple; if one is not ready for child rearing, then one shouldn't have sex or use contraception. Furthermore, if contraception were to fail, I would follow through with pregnancy and put the child up for adoption, either be a ward of the State or some other family who can't have children. I think it's extremely selfish for someone to be fertile but to shy away from the responsibility and have an abortion whereas someone else wants children but is infertile. Wouldn't this person appreciate raising a life as their own? It's also not entirely up to the woman either, the man also gets a say and if he's pro-life, then you better watch out.
@MasterAetos I don't care what you would do, fact is, you can't so why the hell do you get any say in what other women want to do with their bodies? Of course someone who is infertile would appreciate bringing a child up they adopted, I'm 100% agreeing with you on that and I'd advise every single woman to consider that, but not everyone wants to have a child to have to give it away. And actually, where I'm from and every other place that has legal abortions, it is up to the woman and the guy gets no say (legally) whatsoever, women have the right to deprive men from having a say at all, so no need for me to watch out. I would never abort myself, but even if I wanted too I could no matter who says what, thanks tho.
A baby's body is not the mom's body. A baby is a different human. A mom has every right to not make that other person in the first place. 74% of pregnancies that end in abortion are due to a lack of moms preventing those babies being made according to the women who were having the procedure done. They reported that they did not use any birth control at all in 50% of cases or used it inconsistently or improperly in 24% of cases. This is according to the world renowned Guttmacher Institute for Reproductive Health. I would be happy with people simply not making babies they do not want in the first place. I think a mom should be blamed if she makes the choice to kill a child she could have chosen to not make. Taking away blame does not promote responsibility.
I feel that, because of the impact on the woman, this … is a matter which is of such fundamental and basic concern to the woman involved that she should be allowed to make the choice as to whether to continue or to terminate her pregnancy.
Exactly why I've always supported abortion rights.
Except pregnancy is largely a choice these days with a plethora of birth control methods and plan B. You make it sound as if pregnancy is random misfortune. Having unprotected sex is an invitation for the fetus to live and grow in their body unless they're completely ignorant to their own biology.
In the end, it's probably for the best if these people don't procreate, so them killing their own children is a win-win after all.
Birth control isn't always effective. It's actually quite ineffective if you think about it.
That said if you're not going to try and impose that a woman remain pregnant despite her wishes then I don't mind. Whether you find it to be immoral or a bad idea doesn't bother me. Whether or not you try to
-legislate it does.
Yeah, I certainly don't think banning abortion is the solution, but it should be more stigmatized than it is. The adoption system needs a reform, and I'm sure there's other solutions people could come up with too.
From my anecdotal experience, most accidental pregnancies are from negligence. E. g. people not pulling out in time, forgetting to take a pill, taking a drug that interferes with birth control, unprotected sex involving alcohol... the list goes on.
I just think abortion is gross 9 times out of 10, and it's very disheartening seeing so many women so fervently defend their right to kill their unborn just because their future existence would be an inconvenience to them; especially when they could just take extra precautions to prevent themselves from getting pregnant in the first place. Good luck getting pregnant using the calendar method, the pill, and condoms all together.
The pill is determined to only be about ~80% effective and condoms upwards of 90% if I recall correctly. Let's just say they're 99% effective though to give you the benefit of the doubt.
If a couple were having sex twice a week for a year that would mean they'd had sex just south of 100 times in a year. That's already one baby, but we know that pregnancy on it's own isn't that likely so we can drop it another 90%. That means within a few years a couple would be almost guaranteed to become pregnant. Multiply that by a few million people and you have a lot of unintended pregnancies.
Whether or not something is moral I think to be largely irrelevant. It may be moral for me to give you my kidney, that doesn't mean I should be obligated to do so.
Perhaps that is the experimental probability, but as I said before many people misuse it, so 80% could be correct but it's only because they're not taking it as intended.
I know I said 99%, but the claim is actually 99.99%. So a couple would have to have sex on the pill 10,000 times (likely on separate days) for it to be guaranteed to fail. That's every day for 27 years. But that's pointless anyway, since as I said before it's only 99.99% so companies don't get sued, when the actual theoretical probability is 100% as long as it is used properly.
I tried looking for some other reasons why it could fail, and the only other possibility that wasn't user error was possibly chronic diarrhea. And that really only applies to people with IBS. Even on planned parenthood's website they state that it's actual effectiveness rate is 91% down from 99% because "it can be hard to be perfect."
When used in conjunction with other methods it is impossible to get pregnant.
@ladsin A quick comment about your statistics for effectiveness of contraceptives; the percentages are usually for the chance of a woman correctly using the method over the course of a year getting pregnant. (There are also figures for how well they work in practice, which bring the long-term methods to to top of the list.)
That's simply not the case mate.
@Celtero
upload.wikimedia.org/.../...ssofcontraceptives.png
That's 9 out of every 100 women using the pill for a year who get pregnant anyway.
@goaded Yup, as I've said previously, planned parenthood says the pill has a 91% prevention rate. I acknowledge that as a reality, though I attribute it to user error, and not a deficiency on the product's part.
Also, if you follow those statistics, if you use an IUD in conjunction with the pill, then the failure rate should be somewhere around.07% or 7 in 10,000.
1/5 women get pregnant from using condoms? Why do people even bother using them then?
If you use the pill and an IUD, you're probably either going to screw up your system with an excess of hormones, or get the same effectiveness as an IUD with progestogen (2 in 1000). You don't get to just multiply the percentages.
People use condoms because they're a lot better than nothing, improve the odds when used with another form of BC, and reduce the risks of catching STIs. And because they want to have sex, of course.
Oh, and in countries where they don't educate their children properly, they're probably the only mechanism available to, or possibly even known to, young people. Can a 17 year old girl walk into her family's doctor's and get an IUD or implant where you live?
@goaded
I still find that surprising... I'm never going to use a condom after learning that, those are worse odds than russian roulette!
I dunno, it's all pretty fucked up anyway. I'm almost certain that I'll never knock anybody up, so at least there's that.
Olease, don't reproduce!
@jacquesvol "Having kids is for the poor and stupid"
@Celtero
Why do people even bother using condoms? Many men don't want to use them or they use them sloppily. FYI: infosexwork.be/.../artikel.php
For anyone against abortion please read this comment. Are you willing to let a tick live on you for 9 months? how about a leech? tapeworm? guinea fish? toothpick fish? lamprey eel? literally any living thing that consumes energy of it's host to grow and live? if you answered no to any of the above you are a hypocrite because removing it is abortion. *drops microphone*
by the way good take I like the spin you put on it and the view you looked at it from. Logical emotionless the best way to look at problems that are controversial.
I would use PREVENTION to avoid those things in the first place like a normal person... Also, a tiny human is not an animal. We can hunt, slaughter, and eat animals. Long pig is usually frowned upon for people to kill...
I whole heartedly agree. A woman's body is HER body. You don't get to tell us what to do with OUR Zbody. And that's basically it. That's the whole thing. Sorry it pisses some people off, but get over it. Abortion will never be illegal anyway.
A bit slow aren't you all across the world and in your states they are restricting abortion laws and rightfully so.
Which is extremely close-minded, it's your body, but if you don't want kids. Either don't have sex or use contraception. You can't have pleasure without consequences, nothing in life can come without a cost of some kind. Outside of any other instance, I would agree that it's your body but you just don't want to think about the simple fact that you are willfully taking another human life. Outside of a rape case, abortion is morally wrong.
Next what if your partner wants the child? Don't you think about the man's rights? He provided you the seed to grow that child after all.
@MasterAetos It is never about mens rights always about their responsibilities. But is always about women's rights and never their responsbilities.
@martinxcv Yeah, I see that even more these days. It's always about feminism but masculinity has taken a steep dive. No one cares about us men anymore and what we think. Everything has taken a paradigm shift.
@martinxcv respect both of your opinions. Fact of the matter is, this is a battle you're never going to win. Abortion will NEVER be illegal. Fight something else. Like gun control, which I'm SURE you're against. But human life is so sacred, right? 🙄 Give me a break.
Trisha, i first of all refer you to my first reply, it is being made illegal around the world or at least toughen up the law. I support further gun control but i do not live in USA.
We can try Trish, we can try. I'm a pro-life person, so it's important that a woman in my life is too.
@martinxcv Texas, in particular, is so lax about gun control; they carry guns everywhere there. Yet it's no wonder that the U. S has the highest count of murder and mass shootings.
@MasterAetos My dad tells me and i think it is in Texas, that it is the law or was the law to give all criminals a gun before they left prison.
@martinxcv That may be a cultural stereotype, but who knows, maybe it was true.
Completely agree. :)
A baby's body is not the mom's body. A baby is a different human. These same people who are all for bodily autonomy often mutilate little boy penises and poke holes in child ears in my country. A mom has every right to not make that other person in the first place. 74% of pregnancies that end in abortion are due to a lack of moms preventing those babies being made according to the women who were having the procedure done. They reported that they did not use any birth control at all in 50% of cases or used it inconsistently or improperly in 24% of cases. This is according to the world renowned Guttmacher Institute for Reproductive Health. I would be happy with people simply not making babies they do not want in the first place.
Right on target. I am the one that has to live with the truth... no other.
yep and the harsh truth is you took away an innocent life for your own selfish reasons.
@martinxcv Dude, I saw you in the other post but damn, we've got a very similar mentality. I see things the same way. Women in America choose to have abortions when they are 21 weeks along in their pregnancy and by that point, the fetus has already begun to develop defined features and looks like a person. It's evil to just end an innocent, unborn life because somebody doesn't want the responsibility. I'm trying to think of an analogy to encapsulate my point about why abortion is wrong but I'm coming up short for the moment. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, their purpose is to heal, not to kill. I really wish women would understand that.
@MasterAetos There are dozens of reasons why it is wrong, apart form anything it goes against nature.
@martinxcv That thing as well, it does go against nature.
@MasterAetos sorry if i offended you boys. I want to be clear on this for me... i would only abored a baby if i knew he or she would suffer from an illness that would allow her or him not to live inside me only. BUT NO NEVER WOULD I GIVE MY BABY TO A MATCHINE JUST BC OF AN OOPS... ITS A BLESSING TO HAVE A BABY! And he or she is in me and i choose his or her life... over me. Dont agree with abortion and never will. My own opinion.
I can at least respect this opinion that you've shared.
@MasterAetos thank you... i can't have kids so i know how hard it would be not to have one.
Whoa, I never thought about it that way. The pro-life/pro-choice debate has always been one that I struggle to address, since it seems impossible to choose “the right thing,” (that said, I’ve always leaned toward pro-choice) but I think you explained this very well. Thanks!
As a libertarian on just about all domestic issues, people can do whatever they want in the parameters of the law as long as it doesn't affect me directly or personally. That includes not using MY tax dollars. I may disagree morally, but law is law so I abstain legally... as long as "your body" and "your choice" also includes "your money". After all, I abort billions of potential lives almost every day and I don't ask the government to pay me for it...
So if we jim crow laws back? Would you keep quiet and say the law is law?🤔
@TheUglyMan Those laws were struck down by the Supreme Court (rightfully and correctly so). Row v. Wade was ruled lawful. I get your argument, but poor example.
The point is we are suppose to stand up for what is right.
Government funding is just practical, but so long as you're not going to try and push legislation to force women to remain pregnant against their wishes I don't much care.
I've been in actual real-life, first-hand, personal situations where I was on both sides of the argument. Along with most things in life, it should be case by case, and not painted with one big brush.
Rights are generally accepted in the broad sense.
I agree. Women have the right to choose what happens with their bodies.
You mean like choosing to create a human they could have avoided creating only to kill it later? Hmmm... That's like saying women have the right to drink and drive and they have the right to not go to jail when they kill someone...
@wolfcat87 get out of here with that false equivalency.
So, where do you draw the line between a fetus/ clump of cells and a person? At birth?
So 10 minutes before birth it doesn't count?
The fetus in the mother's womb has a nerve system and can feel things like - pain , like when it's being chopped up and vacuumed out, just for no other reason that the mother didn't keep her legs closed
The whole point of the bodily rights argument is that whether or not a fetus is a person is irrelevant... Did you bother to read it or no? It's a really short one I promise, but that was covered quite well.
The embryo has all that, the zygote or fetus not yet
Just not true mate.
The embryo
@859David Abortion is NOT about nearly 9 months after sex. More about 12-15 weeks after sex.
I agree. Women should be able to choose abortion no matter their reason whether it be because the child's father is a different race, or the child is the wrong sex, or the child may have health problems
Anonymou scum who is too coward to show its face. Nazi sympathiser.
What about if the father wants to keep the child?
I'm probably choices simply because it's my body and I'm the only one that has to live with the choices I make.. I'm not pro choice for late term abortion but things happen in life and the choice should be available.. I shouldn't have to fight or defend my right.. If I'm raped and get pregnant I shouldn't have to carry that child to term. I'm not saying it's right or wrong all I'm saying is I should have the right to choose..
No one should have the right to do something that is morally wrong. All rights are subjective anyway. For example, people used to have the right to own slaves. They are argued for "property rights." Weren't the slaves their property? Today, we debate gun owner rights. Does the constitution explicitly grant that "right to bear arms? There is no corresponding "body" rights in the constitution. I think the argument based on "body rights" is a weak one.
If you don't think you have the rights to self autonomy or "bodily rights" then I'm sure an argument that appeals to them wouldn't be convincing to you.
Its not right. But do you really want to bring a child into this sick world? Is it not better to save a child from seeing all this. In 20 years time this world is going to be a great vicious fuckup
I still don’t accept the hypocrisy of being anti second admendment (if you are American) and the same time being pro choice.
Not throwing shade. But can somebody logically explain to me how it’s okay to kill a baby fetus and yet it’s not okay to own a gun?
Don’t cowardly downvote me, tell me the logic in that?
by the way - I know some pro choicers are okay with guns but many of them are hypocritically not.
I don't know any liberals who are anti-gun. I know many who are proponents of better legislation in regards to keeping guns "well-regulated", a vocal minority who appear in the media who are against gun ownership, and conservatives that seem to equate the two.
Left, Right, You're Both Wrong About Guns ↗
My thoughts expounded here.
That’s an interesting argument. Thank you for sharing!