The Grooming Gang Issue In Britain: Another Take

So, I have learnt a lot about this issue with being on G@G and actually, and I feel like learning about issues as such is actually helping me as a Law student. I have had some claims made against me when discussing this issue, and I thought I'd bring them to light with a true explanation on G@G.

So what's been said to me, and what is my response?

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Claim 1: "You Are Trying To Explain The Issue Away Because It's Your Own Doing The Crimes"

Certain things I have brought to light in the past when talking about this issue...

A) Not all of the men in these particular cases are of Pakistani descent

B) Not all of the victims in these cases were white females.

So in particular grooming gang cases - not every grooming gang case in Britain - the criminals happened to be predominately Pakistani. But in these particular cases, while gang members were predominately Pakistani, men and women of other ethnicities were involved- and the way I see it they were seen as prepetrators by the Law, so just because there happened to be less of their demographic in these particular cases, does not mean we view them as any less of criminals.

I have also stated that the majority of victims - in these particular cases - were white females. But as well as white girls being victims, BAME (Black Asian Minority Ethnic) girls were victims and so were young boys. And the law has viewed them all as victims, they are all victims regardless- so why should we view them as any less just because their demographic was less?

When raising these points, I have been accused of "trying to explain the issue away because the prepetrators were my own."

Firstly, just because someone is the same ethnic background as me, does not mean they are 'my own'. I do not consider anyone who is part of a grooming gang to be 'my own'. Would you consider such people to be your own just because you happen to be of the same ethnic background? No matter what ethnicity the victims were, white, Asian or black- I consider them all to be my own- my brothers and sisters in nationality. Because it shouldn't be race that defines what is 'your own', it should be what's inside.

And I don't understand how bringing another demographic of groomers and victims to light is "trying to explain" anything away. Because more groomers are being made aware, which means more victims are being made aware of- so more voices are being heard. Isn't that what these victims deserve? To be heard regardless of their race or gender?

Claim 2: "All/Most of the grooming gangs In the UK are Pakistani"

That is false. Whilst there is a percentage of grooming gangs which have operated in the UK, which are predominately Pakistani- there are also ones of other ethnicities which don't get reported in the same way.

In 2012, when these issues were being brought to light,the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, collected data based on the reports of victims, they concluded 36% of perpetrators of child sexual exploitation in gangs or groups (grooming gangs) were white, 27% Asian, 16% black and 16% not disclosed.

That study also came to the conclusion that ethnicity of a perpetrator was more likely to be recorded if you were of a particular ethnicity or nationality- for example, if they were Asian.

So what I don't understand is why do people only mention a percentage of 27%? We don't even know what that percentage is yet everyone focuses on that whilst ignoring the rest of the 68%? Why don't we focus on every ethnicity involved? It's not about saying other communities are "just as bad" (like some say) it's about bringing every issue concerning this matter to light- so no issue is treated as 'less serious' and so no victim(s) are unheard.

Of the 68% surely girls and boys who were white and BAME were victims? So why is it fair that people are not giving those victims an equal voice to be heard?

Claim 3: "You're Ignoring A Problem Within Your Own Community"

It's obvious when people say this to me, they mean the "Pakistani" community. And you know what? If this was a crime only committed by Pakistani men I would say: "Fair enough, this is a problem certain people in the Pakistani community have."

But I've just shown you that there are various ethnicities who operate in grooming gangs.

And yes, I consider the British Pakistani community to be my community. But I also consider the British community to be my community and that's everyone in the UK regardless of their demographic.

As said previously, studies have shown there are various people of a variety of ethnic backgrounds that operate in grooming gangs in Britain.

So this isn't a problem for just one community to solve.

We all as British citizens need to come together and solve this problem. Because no matter what ethnic group are the perpetrators- it's British children, sons and daughters of the UK, brothers and sisters in nationality whatever you want to call them- the victims are our British people.

So this is a problem for all of us.

For our British community.

The ethnicity or gender of a groomer, rapist, pedophile doesn't make them any less of a groomer, or a rapist or a pedophile. The ethnicity of a victim doesn't make them any less of a victim.

I hope this MyTake has taught you something.

Thank you for reading.

PS: If you want to learn about the grooming gang issue concerning ethnicity read this page, it's helpful and 'full fact' is an independent charity based in London which reviews and corrects 'facts' we hear on the news: https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

The Grooming Gang Issue In Britain: Another Take
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Most Helpful Guys

  • That article is helpful, but gives the impression of being biased.
    When referencing one source, they say "suggests that the majority of offenders are white," but for most studies that found majority Asian perpetrators, it says that the study doesn't give enough info for the full picture. Is the writer taking results they disagree with with a grain of salt, or is it just a difference in the studies? Dunno.

    Anyways, here's my understanding of the anti-pakistani arguments. They may be helpful when counter-arguing. (I don't endorse the arguments.)
    A. Immigrants from Pakistan are encouraged to embrace pakistani culture. Pakistan has a rape culture. Therefore, pakistani communities are more accepting of rape.
    (perhaps this could be countered by polling British pakistani communities on their views of rape. Harder to argue they're "pro-rape" in some contexts if they report being against it)

    B. Pakistanis are less likely to be arrested and punished because the police/ government don't want to be seen as racist.
    (This is difficult to argue against, as it's talking about the no. of crimes punished / the no. of crimes committed. That metric seems difficult to get, at least from an American perspective, as people are "innocent until proven guilty."
    Also, as an American, the narrative is supported by a cultural naming distinction: When Americans think of Asians, they mostly imagine east Asians (chinese, korean, etc.). Grouping pakistanis in with east Asians seems like an odd political move from this perspective.)

    Overall, I think that grooming is terrible. Using the most reliable metrics is a good way to stop it. The question is, then, which metrics are the most reliable? Is ethnicity the most accurate measure, or do they tend to occur in the same neighborhoods, or are they linked to other forms of crime (trafficking drugs, for example)? I have ni idea. If you think that using one metric may spread racism, but it's the most reliable metric at hand, should it be used? (yaay ethics)

    Okay that's a wall of text. Hope it helps. Another problem is getting the people who dislike you to read your data, no idea what to do for that :p

    Is this still revelant?
    • Thanks for your response.
      "When referencing one source, they say "suggests that the majority of offenders are white," but for most studies that found majority Asian perpetrators, it says that the study doesn't give enough info for the full picture. Is the writer taking results they disagree with with a grain of salt, or is it just a difference in the studies? Dunno."
      Different studies show different things. For example, when CEOP conducts certain studies, they say the numbers are not large enough to give a true reflection based on the whole of the UK. This study I have provided is by the Office of the Children's Commissioner therefore, I deem it to be the most reliable.

      Which studies have you looked at?

      "Immigrants from Pakistan are encouraged to embrace pakistani culture. Pakistan has a rape culture. Therefore, pakistani communities are more accepting of rape."
      It may not be intentional, but when you say this it implies that all Pakistani immigrants are accepting of rape. While I do admit some awful things concerning sexual assault happen in Pakistan, there are many Pakistanis who do condemn rape. My grandparents are Pakistani immigrants and they never came to this country did that- yet they were still able to embrace Pakistani culture.

    • " Pakistanis are less likely to be arrested and punished because the police/ government don't want to be seen as racist."
      This is false too. Because if that was the case then why do the Pakistanis who commit other forms of crime, get put into prison?

      "Also, as an American, the narrative is supported by a cultural naming distinction: When Americans think of Asians, they mostly imagine east Asians (chinese, korean, etc.). Grouping pakistanis in with east Asians seems like an odd political move from this perspective.)"
      In the UK things are different. When we say 'Asian' we are usually referring to someone of 'South Asian' descent. i. e. someone from Pakistan or India.

      "Overall, I think that grooming is terrible. Using the most reliable metrics is a good way to stop it. The question is, then, which metrics are the most reliable? Is ethnicity the most accurate measure, or do they tend to occur in the same neighborhoods, or are they linked to other forms of crime (trafficking drugs, for example)? I have ni idea. If you think that using one metric may spread racism, but it's the most reliable metric at hand, should it be used? (yaay ethics) "
      I totally agree on this one. In my eyes, a huge issue on this matter isn't race- it's class, because oftenly it's girls from lower-class backgrounds who are targeted and this crime tends to happen more up North of England, where cuts have been made to services such as our police services, our youth services etc.

      "Okay that's a wall of text. Hope it helps. Another problem is getting the people who dislike you to read your data, no idea what to do for that :P"
      No problemo. Can I also thank you for telling me this in a polite way? When most disagree they are rude.

    • Heh, you're more than welcome. I like it when problems can be approached constructively. I started off sorting things by A. B. etc. but then forgot about that, sorry.
      I'll also note again that I personally disagree or am ignorant of many of the points I raised. They're points that I have heard people say, and I don't know what led them to believe it. As I'm biased against racial arguments, I look forward to the points being disproved convincingly.
      (at the moment, I'm a bit sleepy and it's hard to scan this visually. Is there a bold feature?)
      I already did the letters thing, so I'll go for numbers in this response.

      1."Which studies have you looked at?"

      I clicked on the link at the bottom of this article. I then did a quick read-through when I probably should have read with more detail. This is an example of the author in that link sounding biased:
      "The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. "
      "Researchers point out that the disproportionate representation of people of Asian ethnicity in studies on grooming gangs may be caused by a number of things including: bias in the collecting of information, the high profile nature of similar cases, and small sample sizes."

      Saying it "may be caused by" these factors is a bit heavy-handed, as it assumes the bias in data only goes in one direction. Some forms of bias may cause over reporting, and some may cause under reporting, and I'm not sure if both sides agree which way the reporting bias tilts.

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  • Celtero

    The problem is when 90% of the population is white yet whites make up the minority of the perpetrators for a specific crime.

    The question arises, "should we allow future immigrants from these countries?"

    It's convenient to preach unity when your people specifically are the problem. If it was British men moving to Pakistan and grooming pakistani girls in the thousands then you'd be singing a different tune.

    Is this still revelant?
    • Did you bother to read this at all?

    • Celtero

      I see language like this "there happened to be less of their demographic in these particular cases, does not mean we view them as any less of criminals."

      and this "And the law has viewed them all as victims, they are all victims regardless- so why should we view them as any less just because their demographic was less?"

      I start to skim. This shit's undisputed, nobody is trying to say you're not something because there's less of you.

      I looked through it again and it's pretty clear you cherry picked stats. You know, where you say 36% were white, 27% Asian, 16% black, and 16% unknown? I bet you didn't read your own source study... Here's the page you get the stats from.

      www.basw.co.uk/.../basw_95410-10_0.pdf#page=9

      Some highlights showing how bullshit the stats are from this page:

      2,379 individuals were reported to CEOP as being possible offenders in relation to street grooming and child sexual
      exploitation. 1,162 individuals were excluded from analysis due to a lack of any basic information about them.

      Caution should be taken in drawing conclusions about ethnicity due to the relatively small number of areas where
      agencies have been proactive around this particular type of crime. We do not draw national conclusions about ethnicity
      from the data available at this time because it is too inconsistent.

      In relation to ethnicity, the data was often recorded to a particularly poor standard at the point of capture. ‘Ethnicity’ was
      often conflated with ‘nationality’ and neither factor captured according to a conventional or standardised classification
      scheme.

    • I did read my study. It doesn't show how "bullshit" they are. That simply concludes, that that is just one study and doesn't necessarily represent all grooming gangs in the UK. And having read this study, how can you then say: "whites make up the minority of perpetrators?"

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Most Helpful Girls

  • PinkGraffiti

    Have you ever looked into Tommy Robinson? I’m sure he’s either a martyr or someone extremely hated in the UK. I personally like the guy. I’ve been studying child trafficking for awhile now. I had to stop because it was heart wrenching and depressed me for months.

    You see, yes it’s predominantly Pakistani men in this trafficking operations in the UK. However, what people don’t realize and refuse to research on, is these Pakistani men (and whoever else is working with them) are controlled by extremely wealthy white people. Yes, I know this probably sounds far fetched, but from what I’ve studied, the wealthy are the biggest traffickers out there. And I’m not talking about the guy who made a few million because of his entrepreneurial career, I’m talking about the billionaires. The mega wealthy, the 1%. It’s hard to bring down the trafficking because of them and the powers they have. With that being said, I just wish people would research this topic more. Child trafficking is a global market for the elite. Unfortunately, no one will really look into any of this. And for those who do, they’re deemed conspiracy theorist and it’s swept under the rug. Meanwhile, more and more children are being trafficked like cattle while the rest of the western worlds binges Netflix, obsesses with their social media, and have their face planted in their phone.

    Is this still revelant?
    • I have studied Tommy Robinson. Do you know he is apart of the EDL, and a senior leader of the EDL was arrested and charged with grooming and sexually abusing a schoolgirl? I haven't heard Tommy Robinson be outraged about this case.

    • Wow, you’re really more pissed off that I mentioned Tommy Robbins name then the matters at hand? I don’t know anything about the EDL. All I know, is this man saw traffickers and he tried stopping them and was sent to jail for it, and not one arrest for the traffickers. He saw this because his business was right next door to where they were harboring them. You don’t think it’s weird that he was sent to jail on a bs charges? Not once but twice! You obviously haven’t studied Tommy at all because if you had, I believe you’d see him as a hero.

      The school girl being abused and harassed, I pray got the justice she deserved. I wouldn’t wish the pain on anyone. However, the difference between her and the traffic children, is no one knows they exist, meaning there’s no one there to help them. Tommy stepped up was trying to be that voice for them. If you’re really more concerned with what Tommy was previously involved in vs the actions he’s doing today, then I’m sorry to say it, you’re the problem. You and everyone else who chalk up everything as a bogus claim, then you’ll slander people and point the finger and find ways to make the good guy the bad guy. Sad part is, you don’t even realize you’re doing it.

      Like Tommy or hate him. I’m for ANYONE who takes a stand against these sick individuals. I would hope you would too, if you truly, actually looked into this.

    • Shamalien

      Why are you not congratulating tommy robinson for spearheading this issue? So many of us didn't even know about the issue until he hit the scene as the maintream media and British parliament love tonignore it.

      Wanna talk about the issue of British parliament’s role in protecting pedophiles?

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  • You will make a great lawyer.

    You give great facts.

    Thanks.

    Is this still revelant?

What Girls & Guys Said

39
  • In 2012, when these issues were being brought to light, the Office of the Children’s Commissioner report was collected before the whole Rotherham scandal broke back when British authorities were ignoring the issue of Pakistani grooming gangs. According to the Quilliam think tank study run by Pakistani Maajid Usman Nawaz done in 2017-18 84% of grooming gangs being Asian and 70% of them are Pakistanis.

    • I was on the fence before but the more of these Mytakes and questions you make struggling to debunk the evidence the more convinced i become that in fact its all true.

    • The study I've just shown by 'full fact' is what literally debunkned Maajid Nawaz's argument. I would rather trust a charity known for correcting 'facts' on the news, rather than just one man making a claim. I don't care if he's Muslim or Pakistani.

      The Guardian Broadsheet has a lot to say about this issue, I suggest you read it: www.theguardian.com/.../84-per-cent-of-grooming-gangs-are-asians-we-dont-know-if-that-figure-is-right

    • It didn't debunk anything because it predated it when grooming gang crimes were not investigated or prosecuted, meaning in regards to Pakistani perpetrators the data is incomplete.

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  • Gedaria

    The only part is that the greatest majority of the men who are involved in this are of Asian descent. They use hire cabs run by Asians to take them to the men for sex.
    These girls are usually in care, and they treat the girls as white trash. They don't go after Asian girls they know it will bring dishoner to the family. I use to live near Bradford England and you get use to their attitude to white people, and specially the girls...

    • This is the most false opinion I have ever read. And clearly certain studies show that isn't true. And actually Asian girls were also targeted, as well as black girls, according to reports so you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

      I've caught taxis before, so have my white friends- no Asian driver has ever harmed us, they've just done their job got us to where we need to be.

    • Gedaria

      Where do you live?

  • MM442

    Here in the USA white men are big in the grooming gangs that follow men around to turn them into the gangs or become homosexuals. There are a lot of young women and women in the sexslave industries one way or another. White wealthy men do control the sexslave industry it brings in big money.

    • It's really sad that such an industry exists. To me personally, it doesn't matter what their ethnicity is - their crime (s) should speak louder than anything. :(

    • MM442

      Yes, it takes so many women out of seriou dating & marriage opportunity men are just out of contention. So the men become homosexuals or just follow eachother around acting like they are homosexuals. All young women and women expect is money just to talk or video chat.

  • lewisvenable

    This is literally one of my biggest fears. There was a huge human trafficking ring exposed in my area recently.

    • There has been similar incidents in my city too. That's why we need to stick together, instead of dividing ourselves on gender and ethnicity? Are you with me? :) <3

  • SirRexington

    Of course there are more white people responsible for rape in the UK... It's a predominantly white country... but it appears the representational numbers of Pakistani men to their overall population is extremely high. So that's why people see them as more mutually exclusive since the rate is so high among this minority community.

  • wankiam

    its actually taught me nothing but only because i knew all this anyway... i can think of a couple of people that could do with reading it though

  • ILoveAnime

    I'm not even going to lie. I don't understand why this take is needed. Or better, I do but God, I wish I didn't. Because for me I really don't understand why people care that they are white or coloured because in the end, the only thing that really matters is that it's a disgusting act of violence no matter what and that the children need to be protected. Why incite more rage on people of colour when this is an act that unfourtunaly happens everywhere. We're all human beings, it doesn't matter your race, gender or beliefs. We all have capacity to do wrong and right. I wish more people remenbered this.

  • I agree with you, but I think you're beating a dead horse at this point...

    • Hmm... So it seems, racists won't seem to let the "Pakistani" thing go... It clearly shows their motive isn't for the victims, but motive is the men being Pakistani.

    • I agree, but you're repeating the same statistics and arguments over and over again.

    • It needs to be out as much as possible, in my eyes. I know I'm repeating myself, but that is my point. Look at how many times I've had to repeat the same stuff, and still people won't change.

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  • Great points. It's the same way here in the U. S. Whites accuse black men and Latinos of raping so much when it is actually white men who rape the most, even RAINN has statistics on it.

    At some point the Caucasian race has got to stop vilifying people of other countries and races just because they live among them. And it's ironic because Caucasians have gone to other people's lands - and even stolen them - raped their women, devastated their economies, yet they have the nerve to look down on these other people for what a few have done in their communities.

    You keep fighting for what's right.

  • Human Trafficking is everywhere you go. I 100% agree with you @SpiderManFan2002

  • 1828avaava1828

    interesting

  • As always a great argument. Keep up the good work.

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