The Grooming Gang Issue In Britain: Another Take

[SpiderManFan2002]

So, I have learnt a lot about this issue with being on G@G and actually, and I feel like learning about issues as such is actually helping me as a Law student. I have had some claims made against me when discussing this issue, and I thought I'd bring them to light with a true explanation on G@G.

So what's been said to me, and what is my response?

???

Claim 1: "You Are Trying To Explain The Issue Away Because It's Your Own Doing The Crimes"

Certain things I have brought to light in the past when talking about this issue...

A) Not all of the men in these particular cases are of Pakistani descent

B) Not all of the victims in these cases were white females.

So in particular grooming gang cases - not every grooming gang case in Britain - the criminals happened to be predominately Pakistani. But in these particular cases, while gang members were predominately Pakistani, men and women of other ethnicities were involved- and the way I see it they were seen as prepetrators by the Law, so just because there happened to be less of their demographic in these particular cases, does not mean we view them as any less of criminals.

I have also stated that the majority of victims - in these particular cases - were white females. But as well as white girls being victims, BAME (Black Asian Minority Ethnic) girls were victims and so were young boys. And the law has viewed them all as victims, they are all victims regardless- so why should we view them as any less just because their demographic was less?

When raising these points, I have been accused of "trying to explain the issue away because the prepetrators were my own."

Firstly, just because someone is the same ethnic background as me, does not mean they are 'my own'. I do not consider anyone who is part of a grooming gang to be 'my own'. Would you consider such people to be your own just because you happen to be of the same ethnic background? No matter what ethnicity the victims were, white, Asian or black- I consider them all to be my own- my brothers and sisters in nationality. Because it shouldn't be race that defines what is 'your own', it should be what's inside.

And I don't understand how bringing another demographic of groomers and victims to light is "trying to explain" anything away. Because more groomers are being made aware, which means more victims are being made aware of- so more voices are being heard. Isn't that what these victims deserve? To be heard regardless of their race or gender?

Claim 2: "All/Most of the grooming gangs In the UK are Pakistani"

That is false. Whilst there is a percentage of grooming gangs which have operated in the UK, which are predominately Pakistani- there are also ones of other ethnicities which don't get reported in the same way.

In 2012, when these issues were being brought to light,the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, collected data based on the reports of victims, they concluded 36% of perpetrators of child sexual exploitation in gangs or groups (grooming gangs) were white, 27% Asian, 16% black and 16% not disclosed.

That study also came to the conclusion that ethnicity of a perpetrator was more likely to be recorded if you were of a particular ethnicity or nationality- for example, if they were Asian.

So what I don't understand is why do people only mention a percentage of 27%? We don't even know what that percentage is yet everyone focuses on that whilst ignoring the rest of the 68%? Why don't we focus on every ethnicity involved? It's not about saying other communities are "just as bad" (like some say) it's about bringing every issue concerning this matter to light- so no issue is treated as 'less serious' and so no victim(s) are unheard.

Of the 68% surely girls and boys who were white and BAME were victims? So why is it fair that people are not giving those victims an equal voice to be heard?

Claim 3: "You're Ignoring A Problem Within Your Own Community"

It's obvious when people say this to me, they mean the "Pakistani" community. And you know what? If this was a crime only committed by Pakistani men I would say: "Fair enough, this is a problem certain people in the Pakistani community have."

But I've just shown you that there are various ethnicities who operate in grooming gangs.

And yes, I consider the British Pakistani community to be my community. But I also consider the British community to be my community and that's everyone in the UK regardless of their demographic.

As said previously, studies have shown there are various people of a variety of ethnic backgrounds that operate in grooming gangs in Britain.

So this isn't a problem for just one community to solve.

We all as British citizens need to come together and solve this problem. Because no matter what ethnic group are the perpetrators- it's British children, sons and daughters of the UK, brothers and sisters in nationality whatever you want to call them- the victims are our British people.

So this is a problem for all of us.

For our British community.

The ethnicity or gender of a groomer, rapist, pedophile doesn't make them any less of a groomer, or a rapist or a pedophile. The ethnicity of a victim doesn't make them any less of a victim.

I hope this MyTake has taught you something.

Thank you for reading.

PS: If you want to learn about the grooming gang issue concerning ethnicity read this page, it's helpful and 'full fact' is an independent charity based in London which reviews and corrects 'facts' we hear on the news: https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/

[Boppy]

That article is helpful, but gives the impression of being biased.
When referencing one source, they say "suggests that the majority of offenders are white," but for most studies that found majority Asian perpetrators, it says that the study doesn't give enough info for the full picture. Is the writer taking results they disagree with with a grain of salt, or is it just a difference in the studies? Dunno.

Anyways, here's my understanding of the anti-pakistani arguments. They may be helpful when counter-arguing. (I don't endorse the arguments.)
A. Immigrants from Pakistan are encouraged to embrace pakistani culture. Pakistan has a rape culture. Therefore, pakistani communities are more accepting of rape.
(perhaps this could be countered by polling British pakistani communities on their views of rape. Harder to argue they're "pro-rape" in some contexts if they report being against it)

B. Pakistanis are less likely to be arrested and punished because the police/ government don't want to be seen as racist.
(This is difficult to argue against, as it's talking about the no. of crimes punished / the no. of crimes committed. That metric seems difficult to get, at least from an American perspective, as people are "innocent until proven guilty."
Also, as an American, the narrative is supported by a cultural naming distinction: When Americans think of Asians, they mostly imagine east Asians (chinese, korean, etc.). Grouping pakistanis in with east Asians seems like an odd political move from this perspective.)

Overall, I think that grooming is terrible. Using the most reliable metrics is a good way to stop it. The question is, then, which metrics are the most reliable? Is ethnicity the most accurate measure, or do they tend to occur in the same neighborhoods, or are they linked to other forms of crime (trafficking drugs, for example)? I have ni idea. If you think that using one metric may spread racism, but it's the most reliable metric at hand, should it be used? (yaay ethics)

Okay that's a wall of text. Hope it helps. Another problem is getting the people who dislike you to read your data, no idea what to do for that :p

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thanks for your response.
"When referencing one source, they say "suggests that the majority of offenders are white," but for most studies that found majority Asian perpetrators, it says that the study doesn't give enough info for the full picture. Is the writer taking results they disagree with with a grain of salt, or is it just a difference in the studies? Dunno."
Different studies show different things. For example, when CEOP conducts certain studies, they say the numbers are not large enough to give a true reflection based on the whole of the UK. This study I have provided is by the Office of the Children's Commissioner therefore, I deem it to be the most reliable.

Which studies have you looked at?

"Immigrants from Pakistan are encouraged to embrace pakistani culture. Pakistan has a rape culture. Therefore, pakistani communities are more accepting of rape."
It may not be intentional, but when you say this it implies that all Pakistani immigrants are accepting of rape. While I do admit some awful things concerning sexual assault happen in Pakistan, there are many Pakistanis who do condemn rape. My grandparents are Pakistani immigrants and they never came to this country did that- yet they were still able to embrace Pakistani culture.

[SpiderManFan2002]

" Pakistanis are less likely to be arrested and punished because the police/ government don't want to be seen as racist."
This is false too. Because if that was the case then why do the Pakistanis who commit other forms of crime, get put into prison?

"Also, as an American, the narrative is supported by a cultural naming distinction: When Americans think of Asians, they mostly imagine east Asians (chinese, korean, etc.). Grouping pakistanis in with east Asians seems like an odd political move from this perspective.)"
In the UK things are different. When we say 'Asian' we are usually referring to someone of 'South Asian' descent. i. e. someone from Pakistan or India.

"Overall, I think that grooming is terrible. Using the most reliable metrics is a good way to stop it. The question is, then, which metrics are the most reliable? Is ethnicity the most accurate measure, or do they tend to occur in the same neighborhoods, or are they linked to other forms of crime (trafficking drugs, for example)? I have ni idea. If you think that using one metric may spread racism, but it's the most reliable metric at hand, should it be used? (yaay ethics) "
I totally agree on this one. In my eyes, a huge issue on this matter isn't race- it's class, because oftenly it's girls from lower-class backgrounds who are targeted and this crime tends to happen more up North of England, where cuts have been made to services such as our police services, our youth services etc.

"Okay that's a wall of text. Hope it helps. Another problem is getting the people who dislike you to read your data, no idea what to do for that :P"
No problemo. Can I also thank you for telling me this in a polite way? When most disagree they are rude.

[Boppy]

Heh, you're more than welcome. I like it when problems can be approached constructively. I started off sorting things by A. B. etc. but then forgot about that, sorry.
I'll also note again that I personally disagree or am ignorant of many of the points I raised. They're points that I have heard people say, and I don't know what led them to believe it. As I'm biased against racial arguments, I look forward to the points being disproved convincingly.
(at the moment, I'm a bit sleepy and it's hard to scan this visually. Is there a bold feature?)
I already did the letters thing, so I'll go for numbers in this response.

1."Which studies have you looked at?"

I clicked on the link at the bottom of this article. I then did a quick read-through when I probably should have read with more detail. This is an example of the author in that link sounding biased:
"The proportion of offenders or suspected offenders varies from study to study, but was anywhere from 27% to 75% in the studies we looked at. "
"Researchers point out that the disproportionate representation of people of Asian ethnicity in studies on grooming gangs may be caused by a number of things including: bias in the collecting of information, the high profile nature of similar cases, and small sample sizes."

Saying it "may be caused by" these factors is a bit heavy-handed, as it assumes the bias in data only goes in one direction. Some forms of bias may cause over reporting, and some may cause under reporting, and I'm not sure if both sides agree which way the reporting bias tilts.

[Boppy]

Oh, I read one of the reports mentioned in the link, it was an analysis of "possible offenders" which is a bit fiddly but anyway, I saw this neat paragraph:
""in relation to ethnicity, the data was often recorded to a particularly poor standard at the point of capture. ‘Ethnicity’ was often conflated with ‘nationality’ and neither factor captured according to a conventional or standardised classification scheme. Within the available dataset there was a significant difference between the groups. For groups one and two combined, the ethnicity of 38% of the offenders was unknown, 30% were white, 28% Asian 4, 3% Black and 0.16% Chinese. When only group one was analysed, the offenders were found to be 38% white, 32% unknown, 26% Asian, 3% Black, and 0.2% Chinese."
www.basw.co.uk/.../basw_95410-10_0.pdf
I read this as saying there isn't a very reliable system for sorting people by ethnicity in the UK. Makes me wonder how reliable most of the studies on this topic are. Also, Chinese is a different category from Asian, heh.

2. "It may not be intentional, but when you say this it implies that all Pakistani immigrants are accepting of rape."
I don't support this belief, but that is an assumption I believe many have. It's cool that your family is kind, but that's more of a personal anecdote, not super convincing. I just had another idea on how to combat this, so here's my two ideas:
2.1 Show polling data that almost no pakistani people are pro-rape.
2.2 Share a heck of a lot of pakistani culture. If people can learn more about your culture, how deep it is, what political arguments are popular there, popular hobbies and pastimes, and your stories growing up within that culture in the UK, they may understand the culture better, know more context, and hopefully have less fear.

[Boppy]

3. "Because if that was the case then why do the Pakistanis who commit other forms of crime, get put into prison?"
There's a number. A number of people who committed a crime. Nobody knows this number. Of those people, some are arrested. Some of those arrested are found guilty. The puzzle I was getting at is: How can we know if more people are being found guilty than should be? How do we know if fewer people are being found guilty than should be?

4. "When we say 'Asian' we are usually referring to someone of 'South Asian' descent. i. e. someone from Pakistan or India."

Yep, it's a problem when communicating with people outside of the country, though. It comes across as an odd euphemism to people who already think the brits are very racially-sensitive.

5. "In my eyes, a huge issue on this matter isn't race- it's class, ..."

I really like how you turned this around from finding metrics of attackers to finding metrics of victims. (There may be reporting issue here to discuss, as people in wealthy areas may be targeted by wealthier leaders, making them less able to come forward, or something... I don't know much about classism in the UK)
If the majority of reported victims are from places that lack support services, it seems very straightforward to fix. It's a more unifying cause, I think, and I'm glad you thought of it.

[SpiderManFan2002]

I didn't know at the time of writing this that Chinese and Asian were separate. I just thought it meant everybody of Asian descent. South, East whatever.

My aim when writing these takes, is to make people aware of all victims, and to ensure they know it's not solely Pakistanis committing these crimes like many are led to believe. :)

Thank you for providing me with that study. I believe I have seen it before, but I rush read it because it was the morning and I had to get ready- anyways, I know that's the problem with data based on ethnicity. The problem is there are most likely 1000s of these crimes happening in the UK- so we can only base figures off of a few studies, and we must check the credibility of these studies as we do so. But we should all know that one study does not represent this issue within the UK as a whole, if you get me.

[SpiderManFan2002]

For point 3- we don't know. But you can't just throw the "racism" card out there because in my eyes, the "we didn't want to be racist" card was used as an excuse. In the Rotherham gang, an MP was aware of the grooming gang. She could have raised the issue in Parliament at anytime and she did not. Not because she was scared of being accused of being a "racist" but because she was actually apart of the grooming gang herself.

Now I am not disputing some of the criminals who happened to be of an ethnic minority did attempt to pull the race card, one of them called the judge a "racist b******" for example, which I do not condone at all. I find it appalling that these criminals are using racism, a genuine issue which many people face, a way to attempt to get out of their crime. But being called racist, did not stop the judge from prosecuting.

4. Agreed

5. Yes, the reason why I brought ethnicity into this, because people were making it out like it was only Pakistani men involved in this crime, and it was only white girls who were the victims. I wanted to debunk that. White girls were majority victims, and there were also girls of colour and boys who were victims. And as shown by studies, it's not only Pakistani men involved in these crimes. But I do believe it's a class issue more than it is a race one.

[Boppy]

I think that Chinese being separate from Asian may just be showing how iffy the reporting is. Maybe there was just a box that said Ethnicity: ________ and the officer wrote whatever. That's an issue with not having a formal standard to follow when classifying someone's ethnicity...

Thanks for discussing this with me. I'm kind of "out of shape" with more academically-rigorous talks like this, and it was nice to get back into it.

[SpiderManFan2002]

" I think that Chinese being separate from Asian may just be showing how iffy the reporting is. Maybe there was just a box that said Ethnicity: ________ and the officer wrote whatever. That's an issue with not having a formal standard to follow when classifying someone's ethnicity..."

I mean I guess that comes down to, the thing that we don't really refer to Chinese people as "Asian" in the UK. We just call them "Chinese".

"Thanks for discussing this with me. I'm kind of "out of shape" with more academically-rigorous talks like this, and it was nice to get back into it. "

Haha, no problem- it's the only thing I'm "in shape" with😂

[Celtero]

The problem is when 90% of the population is white yet whites make up the minority of the perpetrators for a specific crime.

The question arises, "should we allow future immigrants from these countries?"

It's convenient to preach unity when your people specifically are the problem. If it was British men moving to Pakistan and grooming pakistani girls in the thousands then you'd be singing a different tune.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Did you bother to read this at all?

[SpiderManFan2002]

I did read my study. It doesn't show how "bullshit" they are. That simply concludes, that that is just one study and doesn't necessarily represent all grooming gangs in the UK. And having read this study, how can you then say: "whites make up the minority of perpetrators?"

[PinkGraffiti]

Have you ever looked into Tommy Robinson? I’m sure he’s either a martyr or someone extremely hated in the UK. I personally like the guy. I’ve been studying child trafficking for awhile now. I had to stop because it was heart wrenching and depressed me for months.

You see, yes it’s predominantly Pakistani men in this trafficking operations in the UK. However, what people don’t realize and refuse to research on, is these Pakistani men (and whoever else is working with them) are controlled by extremely wealthy white people. Yes, I know this probably sounds far fetched, but from what I’ve studied, the wealthy are the biggest traffickers out there. And I’m not talking about the guy who made a few million because of his entrepreneurial career, I’m talking about the billionaires. The mega wealthy, the 1%. It’s hard to bring down the trafficking because of them and the powers they have. With that being said, I just wish people would research this topic more. Child trafficking is a global market for the elite. Unfortunately, no one will really look into any of this. And for those who do, they’re deemed conspiracy theorist and it’s swept under the rug. Meanwhile, more and more children are being trafficked like cattle while the rest of the western worlds binges Netflix, obsesses with their social media, and have their face planted in their phone.

[SpiderManFan2002]

I have studied Tommy Robinson. Do you know he is apart of the EDL, and a senior leader of the EDL was arrested and charged with grooming and sexually abusing a schoolgirl? I haven't heard Tommy Robinson be outraged about this case.

[PinkGraffiti]

Wow, you’re really more pissed off that I mentioned Tommy Robbins name then the matters at hand? I don’t know anything about the EDL. All I know, is this man saw traffickers and he tried stopping them and was sent to jail for it, and not one arrest for the traffickers. He saw this because his business was right next door to where they were harboring them. You don’t think it’s weird that he was sent to jail on a bs charges? Not once but twice! You obviously haven’t studied Tommy at all because if you had, I believe you’d see him as a hero.

The school girl being abused and harassed, I pray got the justice she deserved. I wouldn’t wish the pain on anyone. However, the difference between her and the traffic children, is no one knows they exist, meaning there’s no one there to help them. Tommy stepped up was trying to be that voice for them. If you’re really more concerned with what Tommy was previously involved in vs the actions he’s doing today, then I’m sorry to say it, you’re the problem. You and everyone else who chalk up everything as a bogus claim, then you’ll slander people and point the finger and find ways to make the good guy the bad guy. Sad part is, you don’t even realize you’re doing it.

Like Tommy or hate him. I’m for ANYONE who takes a stand against these sick individuals. I would hope you would too, if you truly, actually looked into this.

[Shamalien]

Why are you not congratulating tommy robinson for spearheading this issue? So many of us didn't even know about the issue until he hit the scene as the maintream media and British parliament love tonignore it.

Wanna talk about the issue of British parliament’s role in protecting pedophiles?

[PinkGraffiti]

@Shamalien Thank you! Its a breath of fresh air to see someone who knows what’s really going on. God bless Tommy Robinson!

[Shamalien]

Your very welcome miss, and may I express that same sentiment in return :) as sad as it is to say, as hard as it is to find anyone who knows whats going on, its even harder to find a woman who is willing to be the lone wolf and suffer the slings and arrows of her vicious peers on the alter of truth.

Stay strong, I know it hasn’t been easy but our team is the only team if you care about protecting the innocent.

[SpiderManFan2002]

@PinkGraffiti No, don't take it the wrong way- sorry if my tone seemed a little angry I'm busy with some stuff at the same time- so my replies are pretty rushed.

Which traffickers did he see? Because I'm a law student I have an online library of law reports I might be able to access if my teacher has activated yet.

But Tommy Robinson is not what you think he is, trust me. His motive isn't justice for these young people being abused- it's targetting Muslims. Tell me, if he really cared about the abuse of young girls in the UK then why isn't he going after all grooming gangs and traffickers? Why is it just the Muslim/Pakistani ones?

Do you know at a place called Speakers Corner convicted sex offenders have attended his marches? Tell me why he did not tell them to go?

Do you know he tweeted to a 15-year-old Muslim girl "You're pretty fit for a Muslim"

If he was really concerned about the abuse of young girls in the UK, why would he reduce one to her looks- you know in the context he used "fit" in it means in British slang: "sexually attractive; good-looking." How can someone who is against the exploitation of young girls say that to a 15-year-old girl?

And if you don't know anything about the EDL then I suggest you do some reading. I don't think you're a bad person- I just think you're misinformed.

[Shamalien]

The giant increase in grooming gangs coincides with muslim immigration, and the authorities continue to classify muslims as ‘asian’ and often refuse to mention the race at all, which is why we need people like tommy coming out with the truth. Of course he is labeled a racist, and if you follow modern politics you surely know that to be labeled a racist means you are on the right track and you pissed off the powers that be. Tons of slander against tommy but let me tell you I wouldn't even know what a grooming gang was if not for this mans work. I stand with him and other truth speakers, even the much slandered alex jones, maybe these people aren't always right but they are trying to spread truth

[SpiderManFan2002]

@Shamalien Did you even read the MyTake I just wrote? There are no official statistics to prove the majority of sexual abuse case perpetrators are people who claim to be Muslim. No credible ones. Yes, religious extreism was the cause of some of these 1000s of cases- but the whole issue is too broad according to people such as Dr Ella Cockbain to get an exact statistic of who is committing what.

My stats are shown from the most reliable study there is out there which I know of.

He's not a truth speaker. If he was a 'truth speaker' then tell me why isn't he going after non-Muslims committing the same crimes?

[PinkGraffiti]

@SpiderManFan2000 I would have to look into these claims. I’m not opposed to looking into information, no matter if I side with the person or not. I do know the EDL is a far right extremist group in the UK. Have no idea who their leader is.

But as far as targeting Muslims, from what I understood, is that it was Muslims and Pakistani doing the trafficking. Only because they were the hired hands for the rich. You see, this all goes so much deeper than you can even wrap your mind around. It would take me 5 days to explain a fraction of what I’ve studied for the last 6 years. Basically in 2001, my president, and bunch of other rich imbeciles, eradicated the Middle eastern lands for oil. My asshole president is why we have these extremist Muslims groups (Thanks Bush! ). Saddam Hussein was a CIA opperitve. As much as people hated him, he actually made Iraq more westernized. But they killed him, and after that, is when we started getting the “terrorist” groups. ISIS and Al-Qaeda and the like. Now we got all these back dealings with people in the Middle East and it’s been a crap show ever since. Now, the elite, including your queen, use Muslim and Pakistani people as their pawn. They couldn’t do it before because Muslims weren’t radicalized. Obama was arming the radical Muslims to keep them in power. It’s so devastating what the elite have their hands in. Child trafficking is one of them. The worlds are much more connected then we realize.

[SpiderManFan2002]

@PinkGraffiti It's good your open to looking into these claims.

And yes I am aware he is targetting so-called Muslims and Pakistanis who do the trafficking. But he's only targetting ones who are Muslim and he will empathise the fact that they are Muslim and Pakistani- implying that it's only people who claim to be Muslim and Pakistani committing these crimes. See the points you make about 'wealthy white men' Tommy Robinson has never empathised that, he's only empathised the "Muslim Pakistani" part. That's my problem.

And in 2017, Tommy Robinson got arrested for filming outside a court case- the British justice system is really strict, because any little thing can breach a case, and he could have potentially breached the case- meaning he could his actions could have resulted in those men not getting convicted: This source explains it betetr than I do though: www.buzzfeednews.com/.../tommy-robinson-arrest

[PinkGraffiti]

Yes, it is rich white men and women. Not just men. These Muslim/Pakistani are radicalized now. I do think because of their radicalization, they’re not good to be around anymore. And your country is bringing them in by the droves. I’ve researched that somewhere like over 50% that are coming from war-torn countries are young men. 17-25. Not women and children, but MEN. Why is that? I’ve also studied the Muslim religion, and if a radicalized Muslim is forcing a non-radicalized Muslim to join them, they have too, by the laws of their religion. I don’t think Muslims are bad people, but because of megalomaniacs radicalized them, this is why the Middle East is so messed up. Before 2001, we never heard a thing from the Middle East. Now it’s all the time. You gotta step back and look at the bigger picture

Think of this way, if a guy goes to prison on drug charges, but gets thrown in with a bunch of murderers, it’s human nature to join them, or be killed by them. This is the same situation here.

My point is, I don’t think that we shouldn’t help people, but it’s one thing to help someone and get walked all over by them. And what’s going on in the UK is sad. I’ve never been to London, always wanted to. But no way would I go today. Ever. Because the radical Muslims my president made them to be are now in your country. And they’ve done so much damage to other countries. Sweden, Germany, and France. I think you’re a sweet person, and I find you extraordinary to want to step up and be a voice for people who don’t have one. But at the end of the day, the facts are that it hasn’t ended well for countries bringing the radicals in. And yes, they’re radicals. Not all, but a lot are now. You have to protect yourself first and your country first. Women are being raped by them children trafficked. Women can’t even walk by a mosque if they’re wearing a T-shirt and jeans without being called whores because they’re exposing so much skin. really think about it. Wishing you peace and love

[Shamalien]

The majority of those running grooming gangs are muslim, and there are no statistics about it because as I told you, the British gov't has taken great lengths to avoid classifying the race of the perpetrator, claiming it's 'racist' and when they do classify the race, they just put 'asian'. Asian is synonymous with pakistani but they don't want to admit that. And you are really so naive as to believe this has nothing to do with the ethnicity of certain prominent members of British parliament? You are taking law ffs, your being indoctrinated as we speak by the very people who perpetrate and allow this.

British politicians are complicit in this, as is the British government as a whole. There are white perpetrators, many of whom are politicians in britain, but the vast majority of grooming gangs on the ground are pakistani and everybody fking knows it. Fuck your government and all governments, because all governments are complicit in paedophilia

[NickiB]

You will make a great lawyer.

You give great facts.

Thanks.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Haha thank you xD

[NickiB]

Ur welcome.

[NickiB]

Thanks for mho.

[ILoveAnime]

I'm not even going to lie. I don't understand why this take is needed. Or better, I do but God, I wish I didn't. Because for me I really don't understand why people care that they are white or coloured because in the end, the only thing that really matters is that it's a disgusting act of violence no matter what and that the children need to be protected. Why incite more rage on people of colour when this is an act that unfourtunaly happens everywhere. We're all human beings, it doesn't matter your race, gender or beliefs. We all have capacity to do wrong and right. I wish more people remenbered this.

[ManOnFire]

Great points. It's the same way here in the U. S. Whites accuse black men and Latinos of raping so much when it is actually white men who rape the most, even RAINN has statistics on it.

At some point the Caucasian race has got to stop vilifying people of other countries and races just because they live among them. And it's ironic because Caucasians have gone to other people's lands - and even stolen them - raped their women, devastated their economies, yet they have the nerve to look down on these other people for what a few have done in their communities.

You keep fighting for what's right.

[SirRexington]

Of course there are more white people responsible for rape in the UK... It's a predominantly white country... but it appears the representational numbers of Pakistani men to their overall population is extremely high. So that's why people see them as more mutually exclusive since the rate is so high among this minority community.

[lewisvenable]

This is literally one of my biggest fears. There was a huge human trafficking ring exposed in my area recently.

[SpiderManFan2002]

There has been similar incidents in my city too. That's why we need to stick together, instead of dividing ourselves on gender and ethnicity? Are you with me? :) <3

[Gedaria]

The only part is that the greatest majority of the men who are involved in this are of Asian descent. They use hire cabs run by Asians to take them to the men for sex.
These girls are usually in care, and they treat the girls as white trash. They don't go after Asian girls they know it will bring dishoner to the family. I use to live near Bradford England and you get use to their attitude to white people, and specially the girls...

[SpiderManFan2002]

This is the most false opinion I have ever read. And clearly certain studies show that isn't true. And actually Asian girls were also targeted, as well as black girls, according to reports so you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I've caught taxis before, so have my white friends- no Asian driver has ever harmed us, they've just done their job got us to where we need to be.

[Gedaria]

Where do you live?

[MM442]

Here in the USA white men are big in the grooming gangs that follow men around to turn them into the gangs or become homosexuals. There are a lot of young women and women in the sexslave industries one way or another. White wealthy men do control the sexslave industry it brings in big money.

[SpiderManFan2002]

It's really sad that such an industry exists. To me personally, it doesn't matter what their ethnicity is - their crime (s) should speak louder than anything. :(

[wankiam]

its actually taught me nothing but only because i knew all this anyway... i can think of a couple of people that could do with reading it though

[SpiderManFan2002]

To be honest, I'd expected you would have. :)

[WhiteShoulder]

I agree with you, but I think you're beating a dead horse at this point...

[SpiderManFan2002]

Hmm... So it seems, racists won't seem to let the "Pakistani" thing go... It clearly shows their motive isn't for the victims, but motive is the men being Pakistani.

[WhiteShoulder]

I agree, but you're repeating the same statistics and arguments over and over again.

[SpiderManFan2002]

It needs to be out as much as possible, in my eyes. I know I'm repeating myself, but that is my point. Look at how many times I've had to repeat the same stuff, and still people won't change.

[COMMODOREII]

That's why they are trolls. You tell lies as often as they do people start to think its the truth. It is beating the horse but that's why i love your determination to never let these trolls get away with it.

[WhiteShoulder]

@SpiderManFan2002 very good point :-)

[Blitzkrieg_88]

In 2012, when these issues were being brought to light, the Office of the Children’s Commissioner report was collected before the whole Rotherham scandal broke back when British authorities were ignoring the issue of Pakistani grooming gangs. According to the Quilliam think tank study run by Pakistani Maajid Usman Nawaz done in 2017-18 84% of grooming gangs being Asian and 70% of them are Pakistanis.

[Blitzkrieg_88]

I was on the fence before but the more of these Mytakes and questions you make struggling to debunk the evidence the more convinced i become that in fact its all true.

[SpiderManFan2002]

The study I've just shown by 'full fact' is what literally debunkned Maajid Nawaz's argument. I would rather trust a charity known for correcting 'facts' on the news, rather than just one man making a claim. I don't care if he's Muslim or Pakistani.

The Guardian Broadsheet has a lot to say about this issue, I suggest you read it: www.theguardian.com/.../84-per-cent-of-grooming-gangs-are-asians-we-dont-know-if-that-figure-is-right

[Blitzkrieg_88]

It didn't debunk anything because it predated it when grooming gang crimes were not investigated or prosecuted, meaning in regards to Pakistani perpetrators the data is incomplete.

[SpiderManFan2002]

If the data is 'incomplete' as you say- then how can you determine 70% of grooming gangs were Pakistani?

[Blitzkrieg_88]

Because after 2013 it all came to light. Victims started reporting the crimes and Pakistanis started getting convicted.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Well that is factually incorrect. Some convictions began in 2010. Some took place in 2011, and 2012. Where are you getting your information from?

[Blitzkrieg_88]

Some did but the majority happened after 2013. The information is freely available

[COMMODOREII]

So you are saying they are started convicting Pakistanis and every other demographic was left to their crimes? That is interesting that you are acknowleding how Pakistanis were singled out.

[SpiderManFan2002]

@BlitzKrieg_88 Dr Ella Cockbain, debunked this argument and quite frankly I'd trust someone who has the title 'Dr' more than I would trust a radio reporter.

She concluded: “In 2016/2017, the police in England and Wales recorded over 13,000 rapes of children & several tens of thousands of other child sex offences. Only a fraction of child sexual abuse is reported: studies suggest as low as 3-15%.

“Court data show Asians weren’t overrepresented among roughly 172,000 men and 27,000 women convicted of sexual offences in England & Wales in 2016. More specifically, relative to the general population, Asians were actually underrepresented (at 4%) among the approximately 6,200 defendants prosecuted in 2015/2016 for sexual offences flagged as related to child abuse.

“People often say it’s deflecting to point out that Asians are not overrepresented at national scale. They say categories like all sex offences or even all child sexual abuse are too broad and we need to look at specific subsets. I say, these categories are broad but it’s not deflecting. It’s sensible to look at the most extensive data available. It’s right to put more trust in robust, large-scale, national datasets than patchy, small-scale datasets with limited coverage and a lack of generalisability.

“I think the first thing we all need to do is stop using Quilliam’s dodgy research and its 84% statistic… Thanks in part to uncritical reporting, it seems to have become ‘fact’ by repetition alone.

“When I say Quillaim‘s statistic is not reliable, people often ask what is the ‘real’ statistic? I don’t know. Nobody does. I can’t offer you the statistic you might want, but it’s better not to use one at all than to use one so demonstrably flawed.

“We also need to question the simplistic narrative on ‘grooming gangs.’ It can distort understanding, influence decisions and fuel hate. Most of all, it detracts from the existence, importance and needs of so many victims who don’t fit the stereotypes.

[SpiderManFan2002]

“Yes, we need to tackle child sexual abuse in Asian communities. But we also need to stop scapegoating and start recognising the problem of child sexual abuse in its entirety, complexity and diversity. We need well-informed, well-executed & properly-funded responses to all abuse.”

Quilliam have not responded to Cockbain’s accusations but have said they stand by the report.

[Blitzkrieg_88]

Didn't debunk anything she you a Pakistani, Naz Shah a Pakistani mp and maajid made a and a lot of others Pakistanis and others say that it's very much the case. It's even been mentioned in your parliament that Pakistanis are the main perpetrators. I dont get why your all of sudden walking back what you said in your my take.

[SpiderManFan2002]

God. You are sooooo blinded by racism. It is possible that Pakistanis are disproportionatly represented in these kinds of crimes. But 1000s of crimes happen every year- and not all meet the public eye, so it's hard to say whether they are or aren't.

I've learned a lot since my previous MyTake from people such as Dr Ella Cockbain. If what Dr Ella Cockbain says is true, which it appears to be likely it is considering she's analysed the amount court cases.

She's educated. She is a lecturer which means she educates our youth. She researchs issues such as organised crime, human traficking, sexual exploitation, and labour exploitation. She knows what she is talking about- or she wouldn't be a University lecturer. She has even written a book on human trafficking and offender and victim networks. In that book she covers, human traficking, child sexual exploitation, and modern slavery.

That book has positive reviews because she is not biased.

And the fact that Maajid Nawaz couldn't even give her an educated response back all he did was:
Assume her political stance
Judge her for her race
Judge her for her class background

[esotericstory]

@SpiderManFan2002 Every time somebody disagrees with you you call them racist. You try to shame Europeans with this argument of 'race'. When have legitimate opinions I respect you but not like this.

[Lemia]

Human Trafficking is everywhere you go. I 100% agree with you @SpiderManFan2002

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thank you :)

Human beings need to stick together we're stronger together xD

[Lemia]

yes we do

[88-mph]

Sounds like you are desperately trying to explain away what these Pakistani men have done and are still doing.

[COMMODOREII]

As always a great argument. Keep up the good work.

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thank you :)

[1828avaava1828]

interesting

[SpiderManFan2002]

Thank you :)

[1828avaava1828]

no problem spiderwoman!!