Do Not Tear Down Thomas Jefferson's Statue!

[Apope16]

I am a Black Man and a Native American Man. A decedent of slaves and Sioux Ancestors who fought against the United States. I fully support the efforts to tear down statues of the former confederacy; I completely oppose the outrageous attempt to tear down statues of American history. Specifically, the idea that we should tear down statutes of Thomas Jefferson.

Statues of our founding fathers and Presidents are a living testament to our children and their children that even the greatest figures in our history were imperfect. It's symbolic of the ignoble quest in our Constitutional Preamble, "To form a more perfect Union".

You can't teach to our children the evolutionary history of our country by erasing the scars of our history. In a strange way, Thomas Jefferson is the perpetual notion of progress. A man who might have done more in history for the freedom of all people regardless of color, gender, or orientation despite the fact that he owned and fathered the children of slaves. The man is a hypocrisy. He is a contradiction. But that is the heart of the American story.

In a strange way, Jefferson deserves to stand as a symbol of history. It was his words in the Declaration of Independence that inspired the French Revolution in 1789, and Women's Suffrage at the Seneca Falls Convention of 1848, and Dr. King 100 years after that.

Quite frankly, judging by the standards of those arguing to take down his statue, the United States is only 7 years old. That's right. Only 7 years in American history have we as a country recognized minority, womens, and gay rights.

So I guess we should only have statues of Obama. When you consider this logic you clearly can see it is folly. Only the Confederacy should be dismantled, not America!

[MORPHEUS_12]

Okay here's my two cents. I believe the BLM has set America back 100 years. I have always been friendly with everyone but now just in my neighborhood the black people are doing everything in their power not to have to wave or speak to any white people. Also I am not actually WASP, I am confused for Mexican and have the true Mexicans speak to me in Spanish. Yet, I am obviously lighter skinned so they purposefully turn their heads to keep from speaking. And if their kids are with them they all turn their heads to keep from looking my direction. I have never spoken to these people so I haven't been disrespectful in anyway. I think the BLM has caused people who might have been closeted racists say well fuck it. If you want to be racists against whites well the feeling is mutual. It really is sad and I as a white person have experienced more black racism against me than I care to recall. Do you see me having a march, do you see me recording these incidents to put on social media, NO. It cannot possibly happen that black people are just as racist as they claim whites are. I worked in state government and when I got out on my own I could only get hired part time. I wanted to go to working full time for benefits. I had to interview six times before I got hired for a full time position. The reason why was because the sixth time there wasn't an all black interview panel. I could write a book. I just chalk it up. So, you see BLM hasn't done anything to further positive race relations. It has set us back and I think in 20 years when the millennials who are doing this mature they will realize that what they did didn't do anything to foster a positively. It's very sad.

[007kingifrit]

yea this whole thing has convinced me that diversity was a bad idea

[Guanfei]

BLM was never about equality or justice. It was, and still is a black supremacist movement, whose hate on white people isn't even hidden now.

[Anonymous]

Tearing down these satues is fucking enraging i hate it. All support to BLM but seriously, there are statues I've seen defiled of people who freed slaves and we're pro-black supporters. Imagine these people who dedicated their lives to helping people, just to see their statue with the words 'I can't breathe' scrolled across it. This is just making me sick 😞

[BoountyHunter]

Exactlyyyyy
Wtf are they doing?

its like everyone has lost their minds
everything is just HATE now...

[Rebeccalions]

Many blm followers are ignorant. They are probably gonna go after Lincoln next for having slaves even though he freed the slaves lol

[BoountyHunter]

@Rebeccalions
Agreeed

TO BE HONEST
I think they are just tearing down statues of any White man they can find
regardless of if they were Abolitionists or Slave Owners...

I really supported this movement to begin with...
I was behind the protests!!

then..
Rioting?
Looting?
The fact that its largely been blacks and black owned businesses that have suffered...
People arguing that if you don't support this then you are a racist
MEDIA even jumping behind it
Many politicians jumping on the bandwagon (obviously for reelection)

its nonsense

I can't take it seriously anymore

[Apope16]

@BoountyHunter Well said.

[Rebeccalions]

@BoountyHunter they know how to capitalize on white guilt. Since upper class whites don't have experience being around black communities, all a black person has to say is "racist" and the white guilt person drops their stance immediately and kisses ass, even if it weren't racist.
I didn't grow up in a white neighborhood, so they can't pull that witch-hunt shit on me. But they've been trying to do that my entire childhood--blaming me for crimes before I was born.

[N192K001]

Yes, those with statues are not sinless angels, but HUMANS. They're ALL flawed, even majorly.

Because of Gandhi (considered the father of his country), India became independent from the U. K., but Gandhi was a freaking pervert who 'tested' is self-control by taking a bath with girls and/or having them (incl. female family-members) sleep in his bed… naked.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/01/gandhi-celibacy-test-naked-women

Back in the Philippines, our National Hero (Dr. Jose Rizal) was a globe-trotting, womanizing, trained surgeon who was the U. K. during the reign of terror of another J. R., Jack the Ripper. The murders (considered only doable by 1 with medical-training) started and ended with J. R.'s trip to the U. K. Dr. Jose Rizal had a diary/journal (& a woman or 2) for every nation he visited, but why no journal/diary for the U. K? What did he do there that he did not want remembered by anyone?

If you still revere the U. S. ex-Pres.'s Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. you haven't studied them enough. ANY/ALL historical-figures have so many flaws by their era's standard (as well as our's).Hence, either tear them ALL down (to apply the same standard to all) or leave them ALL alone (as a marker of history). Anything else is just either ignorance or selective favoritism.

[American_Centurion]

You tolerated the Confederate statues being torn down now the flood gates are open so any statue of anyone who owned slaves had racist tendencies or supported taking of native American land, taking states from mexico and American empire. Which is pretty much all statues and monuments of anyone including President Reagan. This is what happens when you pander to SJWs, they never stop.
So on the chopping block is the Washington monument, Jefferson memorial, Lincoln memorial, mount Rushmore, studs of FDR, statue of Thedore Roosevelt, Statues of Ulses Grant, Winston Churchill. I mean if you follow this all to its logical conclusion it's not just ehite statues in the Anglo sphere but statues of guys like Ghandi, shaka zulu, Muslim statues and mosques, old Roman statues and monuments, Chinese statues, Japanese statues etc. Cultural marxists want to erase history. Remember the same people that praise Colin Kapernick and virtue signal praise on Muhammad Ali are the same people that would like to see Football, boxing, MMa all banned

[American_Centurion]

Funny enough I and others were warning that this would happen.

[WadeDanielSmith2]

In the Bible there's actually a commandment NOT to destroy monuments.

Even Monuments to "flawed" human beings can serve to remind us of the negative things in history which we can learn from. If you try to sugar coat history, racism will only get worse, not better. Slavery was a fact of human civilization for the past 45,000 years, and trying to erase all reminders of that is going the wrong way.

I don't support "manstealing" slavery, but I do support forced labor as punishment for a crime. We give criminals a free ride in prison these days. they should at least be put to work on a farm raising their own food to eat, so they don't get a free lunch any more.

Anyway, Slavery is wrong, but so is adultery. I don't see anybody trying to destroy statues of Bill Clinton.

[Bananaman177]

It has nothing to do with actual History. They tore down a statue in Paris of the man who abolished slavery simply because it was a statue of an old white man. They tore down a statue of Ulysses S. Grant, who not only defeated the Confederacy, but who famously inherited a slave and immediately freed him because he found the idea of owning another man morally repugnant.

They are trying to destroy ALL History so that they can re-write History from their own perspective, like the Great Leap Forward in China. Look it up.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

Tearing down statues is right out of the communist handbook. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Are you all ready for real oppression? Those who are destroying feel like they are in charge and have the power but they won't keep it once they're job is done

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/andrew-sullivan-you-say-you-want-a-revolution.html

[hellacray]

I agree but what I don't agree with is tearing down any statues.

I don't remember if this was in the USA or the UK. But one of the people got injured when they were tearing down a statue.

It's not safe and sets a bad example. If you want a statue removed go through the proper process to have it removed safely. Or hell hold a protest in front of the statue of you want.

Vandalizing and tearing it down yourself is just stupid.

[zagor]

No one should be tearing down statues. The Confederate statues should be removed by due process, with local governments holding public hearings.

The trouble with having mobs tearing down statues is that it essentially empowers anyone who finds anything offensive to tear down its symbols.

[Lost_Spark]

I don't support BLM, it lost its credibility... that is my opinion

[julieanderson]

Yes we really need to rethink our monuments here but take pictures so in the future people can see how far we have come history good and bad should never be forgotten or edited we need to show our worst side so we can show off our best side

[PonyCarGirl98]

I love this take. A statue of George Washington was defaced and torn down too. Hurt my heart 😖

[007kingifrit]

these people are communists and they will find any excuse to tear down our statues. its part of their plan to destroy our history so they can replace it with a new one and use shame to trick us into going along with their radical policies.

this is just manipulation using guilt. we must stop these communists at all costs

[Anonymous]

" I fully support the efforts to tear down statues of the former confederacy; I completely oppose the outrageous attempt to tear down statues of American history. Specifically, the idea that we should tear down statutes of Thomas Jefferson."

Well if you permit one then you should expect others to follow. If some people can just decide they don't like a statue arbitrarily and tear it down, then they're eventually going to hit something you want to preserve.

[loveslongnails]

I agree Jefferson was a walking contradiction. The "trump" of that era was George Washington, and he's a mountain for God's sake !! He was lying, scheming, deceiving, swindling, dishonorable "soldier" who lost more battles than he won. Why his story isn't taught amazes me, sort of !! LOL

I also agree that the confederacy stands for nothing good in what happened during that time, and they shouldn't be honored.

[RationalMale]

There's several nations inside this country. They're tearing down statues because they hate one of the nations, and want them destroyed. There's no negotiating with that. There's only fighting, or getting down on your hands and knees and giving up.

There is no "saving" this country the way it was. The only question is who will win this conflict, and how many people will die in the process.

[Rebeccalions]

I can't support blm anymore. They turned into a hate group

[OddBeMe]

In my opinion, a statue is deserved for Americans who should be honored, despite historical racism and institutional slavery of the time. It’s abhorrent but history is history. BUT Confederate statues are of traitors who rebelled. Tear the fckers down.

[Jack9949]

“I fully support the efforts to tear down statues of the former confederacy; I completely oppose the outrageous attempt to tear down statues of American history.“ Um the Confederacy is part of American history. I think your issue is that you only want to acknowledge the positive elements of our history. And by the way not every Confederate general was a bad person. Some were great people. Some weren’t.

[Moonchild714]

He was a Rapist!! Until they Teach about How Evil they were those Statues mean Nothing and Don't Teach Damn thing...

[N192K001]

Sure. Teachers should teach the good & bad about the figures of history. They certainly weren't angels, just humans who did something great… that has (for now) overshadowed their sins. The truth should be taught in its fullness.

[007kingifrit]

every man is a rapist. everyone is a murderer, and given the opportunity everyone would own slaves and commit genocide

everyone is a bad person. teaching that other people are bad is a very simplistic point to make and it does no good. thomas jefferson is special because of the good things he did, not the bad

if you focus on the bad well... we can't have statues of anyone

[N192K001]

@007kingifrit 「every man is a rapist. everyone is a murderer, and given the opportunity everyone would own slaves and commit genocide」
I dispute this. That's what laws & shame (religion) are for. Laws stop externally, while shame/religion stops internally. I am a fierce Libertarian. I will neither force another to sex, involuntary-servitude, or deprivation of life; nor do I derive any pleasure in it, hence my Libertarian position.

As to your other points, teaching the bad also helps keep perspective, so we don't mindlessly hero-worship as though they were perfect, but still acknowledge their contributions to society.

[Froyologirl]

@007kingifrit omg it's you

[007kingifrit]

@N192K001 well i think we are saying the same thing. we're all bad but society keeps us in check with institutions like religion and police

[Froyologirl]

@007kingifrit why are you everywhere lmao go back to the myTake we were on

[Meatunnel69]

Fuck it, tear it all down it’s just fucking brass not like any information on their deeds is lost. Maybe a hunk of metal will clunk them on the head and knock some sense into em.

[jamesgoldman]

Yeah make them into bullets for lefty skulls

[Barbaric]

That literally happened, a guy ended up in a coma after one of the confederate statues they pulled down landed on his head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnGWJdyz3EM

[jamesgoldman]

When statues fight back

[Smoothing]

They have a place in a museum where everyone can go

[Smoothing]

Also history is written in books.

[007kingifrit]

they have a place right out in the open where everyone can see them daily because they are fundamental to who we are

[Smoothing]

Says the person who sounds like they never take time to go to the library and read their history or go to museum to see the rich history that is fundamental to who they are without being told.

[007kingifrit]

ad hominem fallacy

[Smoothing]

😂😂😂😂😂

[blondfrog]

This all started years ago when people torn down the Christopher Columbus statue. When you give your own citizens this type of power and freedom this is the result. Yes there is a such thing as too much freedom.

[Smashingdoozy]

Interesting looking black man in your pfp there 👀🤔