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No because feminism is about equal rights so if you EXPECT guys to pay for they first date you don't REALLY want men and women to be treated as equally as possible.
As long as you EXPECT youreself to pay for the second, him the third,,, and so on. Would that be fair?
@Tomblebee Yes, that would be fair
I’m not sure anyone can “expect” men to pay for their dates, asiecially not feminists.
Unless he asked you on the date and he refused for you to pay then at least offer to pay your half.
Guys almost always are the ones who ask... what if there is no second date. That makes dating so much easier for women since you never have to worry about paying unless there is a second date.
I have asked men out, took them out and paid and so have some of my friends, if you like someone you want to see them happy and experience nice stuff. On all my dates I offered unless I didn't have any money and it's been agreed from the start that he/she would pay
Yeah. Just necause you're a feminist doesn't mean you don't want someone to do something nice for you.
So what would you say to a guy who said that he's a feminist but expects the woman to do all of the cooking and cleaning because it's a nice thing to do for him?
It's like comparing apples and pears. But you know, rationalize it to yourself as you wish.
No it isn't, they're both expectations based on traditional gender roles that feminists claim to be against.
"Something nice for you" = gender roles
That's exactly what it means. Also you say it's "something nice" which means not doing it isn't nice.
And why don't YOU do something nice and pay for him?
I pity the man who dates her
No. Feminism is about equality for the sexes; the relationship isn't equal the moment it's expected for the guy to pay. Essentially it's saying that the woman's time is worth more than the guy's.
Because that's *literally* not social or economic equality. Defying two of the four listed areas of equality they supposed care about means it's nonsense.
No. Unless he said it before, if he invites you, fine. If not, be ready to pay.
Also, feminism is about equality, so a feminist should be ready to pay for herself, but also pay for the man if she invite him.
Aye, but I think you would be cherrypicking out of equality. Not a good idea.
short answer no. more accurately yes but she would be a hypocrite.
You can be a feminist and still like traditional gender rolls..
No that's stupid af
No you can't, because feminism is supposed to remove gender roles and bring equality. It's not doing that nowadays, but that's the original message.
You can be a feminist and still LIKE traditional gender rolls, like you can want to cook to your husband. The thing about feminism isn’t to completely REFUSE gender rolls but to not FORCE them on people and act like it’s the “ normal” thing
so always is the man hwo should pay?
No, I personally don’t think so. But it’s okay with traditional views like that as long as both are okay with it.
That's called double standards. If you like to apply the traditional way on the man then he has the right to apply that on you too. You know what I mean by that.
Did you even fully read what I wrote, Adam?
Yes, I did. You asked coz there's money in the middle. Of course, I totally understand, everyone wants to save money. But, we should be honest to ourselves and not to mixup positive values and beliefs with greed and being cheap. A man could be ok with paying, but on the long run no man would ever like that, coz we eventually will fall that we're taking advantage of.
Will feel *
I'm saying if he's okay with it, for example if the woman does the traditional parts of a relationship, and the man does his, and they both are comfortable with the situation - who the hell are you (or me/or anyone) to tell them they can't live like that? It's a weird thing of you to say
I think if he can't afford it, he shouldn't be forced to pay
There is a huge difference between Feminism, Toxic Feminism, and chivalry.
Im not a feminist and i don't expect a guy to pay the bill in any dates. I'd rather give him a treat than let him pay for my food
I am not a feminist but I do prefer to work before having kids, to keep my sense of individualism
And I do would like my guy to pay because it makes me feel special and loved.
Maybe we want to feel special and loved... how about you pay for the first date?
No thanks
Your not for equality, but thank you for being honest!
Special like a prostitute, you both get payed before you let the guy have sex with you.
Yes. Boys still have to be some type of gentelmen. I'm not really into feminism tho. But I do believe that women and men should have equal opportunities, have the same salary, etc.
so women have to do the majority of the cleaning and cooking, thats cool with me i'll pay for the first date if thats the deal.
If boys have to be some type of gentlemen, does that make it fair for us to expect a girl to be some tyoe of a lady?
Type*
iam more than happy paying if it means she cooks, cleans and gives me sex when i want
@Cocacolamm I'm from East Europe so It's okay with me
@LillKrull depends on what you mean by lady
perfect, ill pay for the date no problem then :)
@SmoothDude "when I want" sounds like she's your slave😒
well yeah, you want me to pay right? that tech means iam buying you
I don't think paying for a girls dinner equates to buying them, it means you are taking care of them and if they are happy to take care of you in other ways (not just sex) then I am happy to go along with this.
@Cocacolamm so i pay for everything and if she feels like it she gives me what i want... yeah not a good trade.
I agree with Coccolamm on this one.
not everything, just dinner.
@SmoothDude let's just say we have different opinions
@Cocacolamm just dinner? i thought we were talking about a long term thing.
no man, the question is about should the guy pay for the first date.
Yeah @Cocacolamm I'm talking about dating, not just one dinner
@Atlana why is your profile picture of Michael Jackson?
That's not Michael Jackson😂😂
@Atlana see this is the issue us men have with feminism, if you are going to argue something you need to work out what it is you actually want 1st.
On one hand we have women fighting for executive jobs and saying men have all the money so we should pay.
On the other hand we have women like you who are happy to stay at home and clean etc and we pay for everything.
We are totally confused, we dont know what you want and until you all fight for the same cause them its just 1 big load of waffle that no one even understands.
@Cocacolamm well, first of all I'm not "happy to stay at and clean"😂😂 I need a career too. I'm just saying that It's okay with me. I can do both. Matter of fact I prefer home-cooked meals.
And to make It easier for you, you just gotta ask girl what she is like. But most of the girls who can just cook and clean and don't care about job are gold-diggers so..
At home*
don't worry, ill just take you! if you wanna work then come home and cook and clean then you are perfect for me :)
You gotta help me tho. I'm not maid or something
It's fine, I'll pay for dinner
DinnerS, right? Plural
No it's not plural
Also this is so hypocritical
@gclark2608 how is it hypocritical?
lol you really thought she is okay with being your servant in exachange of paying for her? women want to take it all, they want to be taken care of, and paid for without having to make an effort, if she has to cook and clean then she's making an effort that goes against their code , they are taught to take as much as possible without giving back, some men understand this very well and give just enough to get something in return and these are the kind of guys that succeed, never give a woman everything she wants.
@SmoothDude you really disrespectful
no, iam more realistic, you contradicted yourself i didn't even have to say anything.
I said what I said. If you a gentleman you'd pay for a girl. Relationship is an equal thing, so you shouldn't expect that I'm gonna work and clean and cook. Isn't it too much?
Now, why would i pay for you? because iam a gentleman? what iam getting out of this? sex? cooking and cleaning? why should i spend the money i worked so hard to get on a woman i just met and keep spending it on her when she declears no interest in ever giving anything back in return.
this is real life not a movie, if i offer something you gotta offer something as worthy as me, iam not an ATM machine i dont go around buying girls stuff to make them feel good about themselves, if iam investing in you you better be worth it.
You're not investing in me. I'm not a project or business. I'm a girl. If you ask me out then you gotta like me or something. It called caring, not "investing my money"
caring you say? so iam supposed to pay for you because i "like"you when you aren't willin to give anything back in return? why would a sane man pay when the girl doesn't care enough about him to give something back in return, you live in a movie i suggest you start living in the real world.
Ever heard of "unselfishness"?
no iam not a charity worker iam going on a date , my job is not to provide you with money and make life easy for you until you're my finace, before that why should i invest in you , stop living in movie ,
Ok, that's pointless. You'll never find a girl. You should date feminists
i have already found plenty, i will pay if i am getting something i have no reason to waste money on every girl because she wants to be treated like a princess, you're a grow woman i have no obligations to take care of you when you refuse to do the same for me.
Like I said. That's pointless. Have a good day/night
Basically you're saying Women should be treated exactly equal to Men which I completely agree with, but Men should still be obligated to pay for you because we're supposed to be gentleman. Which is hypocritical. Also if my opinion was that you should do the womanly thing which used to be the case that you should make me all my meals because you're a Woman which is basically the same as what you're saying, I'd be widely considered sexist. Just pointing that out and it's not my opinion at all, just hypothetical :)
To be clear I don't mind being gentlemanly at all and I've paid for 100% of every date I've been on but only because I want to, not because I should be obligated to
Rant over
@gclark2708 well, I don't know. In my country boys feel obligated to do it, just because It's right thing to do, If you a "real man". It's kinda stereotypical tho. But It is what It is.
You nice tho😊
"real men" ? no offense but where i live eastern european girls are very cheap and slutty and cheat often, so iam not sure why its being a real man to be a gentleman to such girls
@SmoothDude you disrespectful af, so goodbye. I already told you that
the truth hurts sweetie, prepare yourself better next time you argue
If I were your girl, I'd slap the shit out of you for calling me "cheap and slutty"
I feel sorry for girls who dated yoy
You*
i dont date slutty girls so no worried there iam never dating you
Goodbye. For real. I have enough fuckboys in real life
Haha he needs to bare in mind that you're 16 and he's an adult
@gclark2708 tech yes she's 16 even though thats legal where she lives, however this site is very clear its not about agreeing with someone cause he's younger, plus she already has her own opinions and expecations that she fiercly defends so hardly a baby if you ask me.
I feel like feminist don't even know how to function in the real world without contradicting themselves.
This is why I date normal girls, and everything is alright 👌
Of course. You can have progressive ideas and still maintain traditional ones.
It's totally situational, but sounds like she's 100% a hypocrite.
I real feminist would want to demonstrate her independence by paying for herself.
You can expect the guy to pay for you, but that would be quite hypocritical
Thats not what feminism is. Many people misunderstand what being a feminist is
What is it?
Yes please explain to us what feminism actually is then?
Feminism is whrn a woman becomes liberated due to all the hardships she has been through and discovers the actual meaning of life. And is able to understand that women thrive in emotion where as mens emotional conception is much lower then womens. This comes us an adventage on emotional intelligence. Not that feminists hate men. Actuay its the opposite. Its more like having a strong women beside your arm who wants to help guide her man through his wisdom. That means help him discover his own truth power and purpose. In other words similar to the expression behind every good man there is a good woman. This doesn't mean that the men is freed from his manly duties. It just means he has a treasure because she is with him not for materialistics cause she can have that herself but for love. Read bell hooks essays. It is explained much better. But this is the jist of its perception.
well that actually sounds lovely, so why do women need to be in more positions of power if men can do it with their strong woman at their side?
Thats not the point. The point is men need women more than women need men. Thats why if you have a good one that means a smart one. A man thrives whereas the uneducated girl will only guide him in darkness.
but that is what feminists are fighting for, so if thats not the point then why are they fighting for it?
Boy i dont need to exploit my intentions. And every girl who is educated and understand their purpose and meaning in life and has found themselves in the sense of personality is a feminist whether they know it or not. Because feminism is not at all about hating men. People just see a lesbian who thinks is a feminist vause she has been through discriminatory remards due to her sexuality and they awesome that all feminists are lesbians. No they are lesbians before feminism. Women and men need each other in different ways for them to be happy. Whether people understand feminsm or not.
so what you are saying is you disagree with feminist groups who are fighting for more women in higher positions within the country and or business' ?
That fight doesn't depend on them. Now women and men are both measured by brain power not by physical strength. So what im saying is may the best candidate win and get what they deserve.
If you are hypocrite - like most feminists - then yes.
Can you be feminist and not expect the guy to offer to pay for the meal considering it's the polite thing to do?
Sounds kind of stupid, nein? Wanting the best parts from both sides but no drawbacks and responsibilities.
lmao those feminists making excuses for it. Suddenly equality vanishes for them when it's convenient, huh?
If you believe in gender equality, then you will understand how asking the man to pay on the first date is against that belief.
I feel like yes. But i also feel like the next date, female should pay for it... that way it’s still equal on who pays...
The one who asks the other out is supposed to pay. It's not a gender thing when both partners work.
No in my opinion. But i do believe in guys paying for dates.
No... A lot of people don't understand what actually feminism is. It's common sense to a lot of people.
Please do explain!
You have the internet
The internet does not support your position, not in any way I see, but I like the feeling when something suddenly makes sense. You don't have to, but I'd much apprichiate.
Ok fine, but later, I don't have the energy to write something long right now.
Thank you!
It should be the person asking out the other one who pays, or split it 50/50.. if the relation gets more serious, then either one of them could offer to pay sometimes..
Girls are always crying about how boys can't be a gent but they are not a lady tho. They rather giving a fuckboy of a piece of shit à chance to date her than a loyal guy
The one who asks for the first date should pay. The other one on the next date.
At that point it's just women who want everything but don't want to give anything. Not attractive
Highly doubt you heard an actual feminist say that. You switch off or each person pays for their food/drinks.
My true issue with all this is that i am supposed to be a gentleman but i can't ask you to at least smile, nevermind have you act like a lady.
Okay, I'll just translate this for the others to understand it better: "I eat nuts and raisins a lot, they taste good. Yet, I only eat the raisins."
That was actually an innacurate attempt at dumbing it down.
It makes sense to me because feminism is all about having your cake and eating it too.
Gender drawbacks are only something men should deal with.
Besides misogyny is only a problem if the guy isn't handsome or rich.
Feminism revolves around female entitlement. So yeah, obviously- it goes without saying.
I always pay half. Too many girls just use guys for free meals.
In theory, no that's not how it should be, but in reality that's how it turns out.
Simples...
I always pay on a first date regardless of what she may think
Feminist ideology is all about woman so called empowerment n letting a man pay means you caved.
I think you shouldn't expzxt it but you could being okay with it if it happened.
No you pay for the guys meal every other time or split it if. Chivalry and feminism will never coexist
Let them pay. If not, they don't deserve us. (just thinking the same as females think). Equality. MTGOW
girls are feminists just when they want, just when its good for them. gold diggers
As long as she understands I expect sex in exchange.
Yes bcs men get paid more and male privilege and bcs vagina
you must be a high level feminist with that kind of logic 😂
MISOGYNIST😂😂
Well you can, but it does make you a bit of a hypocrite.
Nope
That's a hypocrite
well if they weren't being entitled and/or hypocritical, then they wouldn't be feminists...
Not really! Strikes me that they want the best of both worlds!
Yes. Because Feminism is wanting only the good parts of equality while still wanting the advantages of being a girl
Oh yes... And you should thank her for letting you pay for her and lick her fett in the end of the day...
That wouldn't be a true feminist though, feminist should split the bill in half with the man.
Why do u expect him to pay for u on a first date? What so special about the first date. Whats the diff between first and other dates.
No you should not expect that
But a guy should pay
But i think you should ask him about paying or split the bill...
You better pay unless you're gay.
Pretty lame and obvious shaming language, only pussies would fall for such bad manipulation.
Mature... the wall is coming for you dear. I've seen more than one hit it. Basically if you don't have respect in your life for yourself and others 35 destroys you.
@CrashDF Me to wall:
I came in like a wrecking ball, be careful I'ma fuck you up.
Leave you crumbled in a pile or rocks, cause you thought that you would wre-eck-eck me.
Nah, No thanks your not my type.
I want a women who I can love for the rest of my life and know she'll never stop trying and moving forward. That she won't give up and just "let herself go" by sitting in front of the TV/Phone and do nothing for 60 more years.
gay 4 pay?
😂😂😂
Well first of all I wouldn't date a feminist so problem solved!!!