Iowa man sentenced to 16 years in prison for burning an LGBT flag! Thoughts?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iowa-man-sentenced-16-years-004039544.html?fr=yset_chr_syc_hp&type=yset_hpchrbanner

So for those of you who don't want to read the whole story, the jist of it is, a Hispanic American stole an LGBT pride flag off a church and burned it outside a strip club.
Initially he was only supposed to do 1 year, but the judge slapped on another 15 for "hate crime"

Apparently Mexicans burning American flags is fine, but Americans burning LGBT flags isn't.

Updates

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[BeeNee]

Once again, people really need to do better fact checking as this story needs some major clarification. Adolfo Martinez, the flag burner, didn't get 15 years JUST for stealing and burning down the LGBT flag and making threats, he got that long term sentence because he already had two previous FELONIES and by Iowa state law, is treated as an habitual offender. In that circumstance, his criminal history tripled the maximum available sentence for arson from five years to 15 years. One should generally avoid committing crimes, but repeat felons all know, in many states, it's 3 strikes and you're out...15 years worth of out in this case.

[BeMuse]

Arson covers real property such as a house, a building, or land, and personal property such as car, boat, or airplane. The fire typically causes substantial risk or physical harm generally endangering lives. Burning a flag isn't arson. He didn't go to the church and try to light the church on fire. He burnt a flag he stole and lit it on fire in a parking lot. shm...

[BeMuse]

Basically burning the flag is like open burning of trash or leaves where there are ordinances that prohibit it. That sort of situation is typically penalized by a fine of like $50-300 depending on the municipality.

[BeeNee]

@BeMuse

The Crime of Arson Defined

In its most basic sense a person commits arson when they knowingly, by means of a fire or explosive:

Damage any real or personal property of another without their consent; or
Damage any real or personal property with intent to defraud an insurer.

In this case, by law, he stole another's property, the church's flag, and lit it on fire. He did not light his own property in some random parking lot. Martinez had caused a disturbance at a local bar and THREATENED TO BURN DOWN THE ESTABLISHMENT before returning with an LGBT rainbow flag he stole from the Ames United Church of Christ, and setting fire to it outside the bar. Following that, he admitted to his crimes in an interview with a local tv station. Now if someone tells you they plan to burn down your house, and then return five minutes later lighting stuff on fire and threatening you, you're telling me, you'd shrug that off? Any rational person would have called the police ASAP. Case in point, at my university, a student stole a campus flag and they filed criminal charges and expelled him from school. Theft, arson, or both, these are crimes.

[BeMuse]

Here is the actual Iowa definition as set out in the statutes 712.1

1. Causing a fire or explosion, or placing any burning or combustible material, or any incendiary or explosive device or material, in or near any property "with the intent to destroy or damage such property", or with the knowledge that such property will probably be destroyed or damaged, is arson, whether or not any such property is actually destroyed or damaged. Provided, that where a person who owns said property which the defendant intends to destroy or damage, or which the defendant knowingly endangers, consented to the defendant’s acts, and where no insurer has been exposed fraudulently to any risk, and where the act was done in such a way as not to unreasonably endanger the life or property of any other person the act shall not be arson.

Are you arguing that he had the intent to destroy a solid piece of pavement with fire? lol

2. Causing a fire or explosion that damages or destroys property while manufacturing or attempting to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of section 124.401 is arson. Even if a person who owns property which the defendant intends to destroy or damage, or which the defendant knowingly endangers, consents to the defendant’s act, and even if an insurer has not been exposed fraudulently to any risk, and even if the act was done in such a way as not to unreasonably endanger the life or property of any person, the act constitutes arson.

[BeMuse]

712.2 Arson in the first degree.

Arson is arson in the first degree when the presence of one or more persons can be reasonably anticipated in or near the property which is the subject of the arson, or the arson results in the death of a fire fighter, whether paid or volunteer.

712.3 Arson in the second degree.

Arson which is not arson in the first degree is arson in the second degree when the property which is the subject of the arson is a building or a structure, or real property of any kind, or standing crops, or is personal property the value of which exceeds five hundred dollars. Arson in the second degree is a class “C” felony.

712.4 Arson in the third degree.

Arson which is not arson in the first degree or arson in the second degree is arson in the third degree. Arson in the third degree is an aggravated misdemeanor.

At worst the flag was worth more than $500, but flags are typically like $30. Thus by Iowa law third degree arson is about the closest you could come to arson and that is a aggravated misdemeanor and that's even stretching the law.

[BeeNee]

@BeMuse I really think you're missing the point here. He didn't get 16 years for arson. He, by his own omission gladly committed a hate crime, stole another's property and had previous felonies all of which led to the extended sentence for something at max he would have gotten 5 years for. He could have stolen a candy bar and potentially gotten ten years. Three strike laws are meant to say to repeat offenders, enough is enough. If you can't live in civilization without repeatedly committing crimes, then by all means, off to jail you go.

[BeMuse]

Let me quote you twice:

"his criminal history tripled the maximum available sentence for 'arson' from five years to 15 years."

"I really think you're missing the point here. He didn't get 16 years for 'arson'."

You are waffling... Game over.

[BeeNee]

@BeMuse Yes. I quoted the news story to say that people are making this story out to be that this guy was overly sentenced to 15 years JUST for arson. It's not just arson that got him 15 years, it's the accumulation of previous crimes and arson and the third strike laws not to mention the hate crime.

[BeMuse]

Yet I posted the actual laws from Iowa and his actions don’t meet the criteria. What it looks like they did to push through the over charging is first, classify petty theft and vandalism as arson due to fire being involved even though there was no intent to destroy a solid piece of pavement (over charge). Second, they treated the incident as a hate crime because the flag was rainbow colored even though there was no individual attack involving violence (over charge). Then they utilized the over charge of a hate crime to bump up the aggravated misdemeanor charge of third degree arson (which was already an over charge) to a second degree charge of arson to get it to a class C felony. From there they utilized previous convictions to triple a felony charge (to over charge again). So they layered over charging three times in a row to get to their actual charge. It’s straight up abuse of the law because the DA and the judge are bigots towards straight people.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I was having this same debate with another poster.
Arson only applies to buildings, land and vehicles.
Under YOUR definition, burning phone books in a campfire is considered arson.

[Kaneki05]

This guy did mutiple acts of crimes and let alone a guy can get 10 years in jail just from intent or threat to kill someone which would be so if he threated to burn down a building with people which is even worse.
So for that alone he could get 15 years nevermind all the other crimes he did.

You can argue about arson laws all day long but muitple crimes make longer sentances and esspacilly threat to life.

[slatyb]

Thanks for that information. The linked article was far from the whole truth.

[SwordShield]

Oh shit, found out I'm a pleb normie. Thanks for this.

[ChefPapiChulo]

We have many GaG lawyers on this site

[Tyme1313]

@BeMuse
You’re an imbecile, if someone bought the flag, it’s real property. Anything that isn’t intellectual property that is owned, is real property.

[MajesticTwelve]

Ok so the theft isn't a great idea, but according to law burning a flag is freedom of speech. So does freedom of speech not apply to it just because "my big gay feelings got hurt?" Insanity. They should appeal, it's unconstitutional. I see all you LGBT saying "OMG HE'S LITERALLY HITLER" But what happens when it's your turn? The pendulum is swinging back against you whether or not you realize it, and when it does, do you want to do 16 years for participating in a pride parade? Probably not.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

You're getting MHO

[ZeussLightningBolt]

"My big gay feelings"
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[SwordShield]

F in chat

[Tyme1313]

If you burn your own purchased flag, it’s freedom of speech. If you steal someone else’s flag, and burn it it’s theft and destruction of private property. If you steal someone else’s flag and burn it near a building which could risk a fire, it’s theft, destruction of private property, and arson. If you steal someone else’s flag and burn it in front of a build as a direct statement to disparage those inside by doing so, it is a theft, destruction of private property, arson, terroristic threats, aggravated assault, harassment, and a hate crime.

Under the law, context matters, if he had bought a gay flag and burned it out the side walk in-front of a gay strip club, it’s a protest. The most he may get is a fine for biting something like that which could be a fire hazard. But his actions leading up to burning the flag, the intent behind it, and where he burned it, changed the charges.

[Tyme1313]

*for burning something which could be a fire hazard.

[Trolloween]

I don't think anyone should be imprisoned at all for such a petty crime. Whatever flag it is shouldn't matter, its a piece of cloth that had a small monetary value. He should have been fined the cost of the flag plus a more hefty fine that gets donated to the lgbt community, seems a good punishment to fund what you hate and then some good comes from it. What good comes from jail? Not a single thing in my opinion, but imagine if he was court ordered to watch a pride parade he had to pay for... Hilarious

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Lol
Good idea

[OlderAndWiser]

I am opposed to special punishment for "hate" crimes. If someone murders me for my cash, because of jealousy, to steal my car, because I get in the way when they rob the bank, or because I am a Christian, the result is the same: I'm dead. The harm caused is the same, and the additional punishment is added because of what the perpetrator "thought" before killing me. Why is hating me for being Christian, or Caucasian, worse than hating me because I am standing in the way of their bank robbery?

[FakeName123]

It's worse because else the insane left can't push their authoritarian narrative. Their socialist dream doesn't function any other way but through a seize of power. Fortunately people are waking up and starting to stand in the way of this more and more.

[Lliam]

I agree with you 100%, OlderAndWiser

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I couldn't agree more
To me, a crime is a crime. Why it automatically worse simply because it was motivated by bigotry?

Ridiculous

[Tyme1313]

The concept is Mens rea, it is one of two terms used for prosecution and defense. Actus reus is the legal term for the “action,” i. e burning the flag. Mens rea, is the “intent,” did he intend to burn the flag, or in the case of “hate crimes,” why he burned the flag.

Mens rea is common in all crimes, the concept of hate crimes is made up purely of Mens rea.

[razelove]

I don't think they're slamming him for burning it, but stealing it. You can slap hate crime onto anything, but there has to be a crime first. Like I can yell anything I want while I shoot someone in self-defense, as defined by law, but if I kick their corpse or something, the moment is over, there is a crime to slap additional charges onto. America has twisty logic, but it's crucial to understand it.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I don't think someone should be charged with a hatecrime unless they physically harm someone or commit arson

How come the Mexicans who burn American flags are never charged with anything

[razelove]

Because we're so damned enlightened it's a symbol of pride to burn the very flag that let's you burn a flag. I don't get that one either and it disgusts me when people do it. It disgusted me when they overturned the laws on stolen valor as well, nothing more fun then beating the shit out of one of those shitbirds for resisting a "citizen's arrest" until the cops come and get their shot since they're mostly ex-military too. Hate crime is something that makes no sense to me whatsoever. How do you commit a crime against another person unless you hate them? It's a political ploy. Again, twisty logic that's crucial to understand in US law.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

"This can only be described as a hate crime. Someone hates me."
- Dale Gribble

[razelove]

Heh, that about sums it up, I love Mike Judge... Idiocracy reads more like a documentary than fiction unfortunately :/

[MzAsh]

Oh yeah he should definitely do time.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

He should do time, i agree, but 16 years?

[Tamera952]

Please he won’t do all 16

[ZeussLightningBolt]

@Tamera952 The way the US justice system is set up, you're probably right

[sawno]

Then you should get a tempoary ban for offending me by the same logic.

[Daniela1982]

Why should he do time when burning the American flag does not get anyone even a day in jail?

[fuchit]

The damn judge should do time. He obviously hates Hispanics. So hate crime his ass, right. Let's see, whose next? You people are fucked up. You want to take away a person's freedom for simple vandalism. 2nd degree assault and battery carries a Max of 1 year in my state. That piece of shit judge is destroying that guys life to get votes or push his agenda. Pull your heads out of your asses and grow some thicker skin you fucking pussies. "Sticks and stones" sheeple.

[fuchit]

I guess he should have just set someone on fire. 'bout the same punishment.

[MzAsh]

He should just set himself on fire.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

@MzAsh, WHY? 'Cuz he doesn't have the same views as you?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

If he sets himself on fire, there will be one less Mexican around and I thought you Liberals LOVE Mexicans

[TheLawAroundHere]

I dont exactly know what to think here. The U. S. Supreme Court decided that burning the American FLAG... as a sign of protest... was legal. This rainbow flag is a symbol that identifies a group. Not a country or state. A group.

Disrespectful? Yes. Illegal? Not according to the highest court in the land.

Keep in mind that im an average white fat American who does not want to offend or exclude. So please note that when i say "gay guy", i mean every initial of the LGBTQEIEIO people.

If a bunch of gay guys* want to secede from the U. S., they can. Block off, i dunno... Delaware. Thats the gay guys Mecca now. Ok great. The gay guys win against the largest armed forces that have ever been on earth. So they now control all of Delaware. The gay supreme court rule that burning their rainbow flag is worth 16 years in prison. Great. Im all for it. Like that kid that got caned in Singapore. You are in our house, you obey my laws. I totally understand.

But thats not the case. An organizations symbol was torn down and set ablaze.

This is not to be taken to heart. So calm down:

Would i receive the same 16 year sentence if the next time the girl scouts are set up by my local grocery store to sell cookies... and i yanked their troop flag down and burned it. All while screaming about how much i hated the girl scouts?

[LuvMeSomeBoys]

As @OlderAndWiser points out, the “hate” component is not really the issue even though the media focuses the piece there. It’s criminal conduct. His motives don’t matter, even though it’s an aggravating factor. Martinez has a significant history of reckless and dangerous conduct that the piece fails to mention. Whether or not the sentence is appropriate is not for public opinion to decide. It’s for the courts which weighs all the evidence, and takes all of the factors for extenuation and mitigation into account.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I agree. A crime is a crime. I don't see why it's considered worst just because it was motivated by bigotry.

[ObscuredBeyond]

If it were his own flag, that's free speech. Maybe recklessness, if he endangered a building by where he lit it. If not his, then petty larceny. A Medal of Honor for standing up to the prolapse cult started by that pedo fraud Kinsey, but misdemeanor charges for stealing property. A year in jail at most.

Giving him more than vehicular manslaughter just because the picnic table screwers had hurt feelz? Absolutely preposterous.

That judge should be thrown off the bench.

The bigger crime is gay rapists in the Navy who've knife to neck blackmailed their victims into a reverse perversion of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, being allowed to lobby to name a warship after the most prolific serial child molester in American history. Yet, the USS Harvey Milk is a thing.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I agree with you
Larceny and maybe creating a public hazard AT MOST!

But hate crime? No way in hell is this a hate crime

[ObscuredBeyond]

Britain is even more Clown World than this. A whiny loser who's probably omnisexual but is of Chinese dissent got butthurt by some rock band at a live concert for their cover of "Kung-Fu Fighting " - which they previously covered in live shows every single year with zero incident. But this time, all the band members were arrested for "hate speech," because one little pink hat wearer "got offended. "

How did Sir Wanks-a-Lot ever survive watching Kung Fu Panda, with a cover by Cee Lo Green in it? #clownworld

Meanwhile, machete wielding maniacs in London are handled with kid gloves.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

They arrested them?
Oh my fucking God!
I thought this crazy shit would end with Teressa May out of office

[ObscuredBeyond]

Labour party members don't care about the law. They enforce their own ideology instead. They lose the election, and still behave like they won it, becauthose who voted against them are "too stupid to deserve to have their wishes honored." The arrogance and lack of perspective is everywhere. They even blame their own expensive debacles on the Toey party. Never mind that it was Labour stonewalling and acting like US Democrats that got the policies rammed through in spite regions having Tory dominance. It's no different than local areas in the US run for decades by Democrats sinking into ruin, and blaming all of it on Republican majorities on Capitol Hill.

But you try to explain this logically, and Labour loyal voters in the UK become only slightly less hostile than black ghettos in major US cities that are still loyal to the DNC. Nietzsche had a point: Men hate it when you destroy their illusions.

[NightFlirt]

Well it just goes to show just how stupid people are. The creators of the game Shadow Run had the right idea.. Written in the back of the main book was the following message "Please feel free to buy and burn as many copies of this book as you wish!" Burning a flag, or a book does not harm anyone so why should anyone care? I'd rather see them burning a flag than a Lesbian, Gay or Transperson. The worst that should have been done was slap an air pollution fine on them.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

EXACTLY! I agree 100%. How the fuck is this a hate crime? He didn't assault anyone.

[NightFlirt]

Don't get me wrong, hating someone or something that is doing you no harm is wrong. I am only saying that I'd rather bigoted, people would keep their homicidal tendencies focused on inanimate objects without using it as a line of intimidation.

[sawno]

Finally a real liberal in the comments

[NightFlirt]

@sawno Nope no liberal here, I am a G D I

[sawno]

What is a GDI?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

What's a GDI?

[NightFlirt]

G*d Damned Independent

[sawno]

Not like that, in america the liberals are authoritarian socialists! communists. When i say real liberal i mean someone who values liberty.

[NightFlirt]

@sawno Ah well by that definition yes I am a liberal. As Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death."

[sewyseal_]

16 years? Disgusting as hell. How about we lock up the people who should actually be locked up (like the child molesters and rapists who constantly run free on the streets) and give this guy a few months? Lgbt supporters constantly whine about how much they want "freedom of expression" and then cause this dumb shit like make up your mind

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Yeah, they can fly THEIR flags on government buildings but straight people can't fly THEIRS?
And like LGBT people have never harassed straight people.
It happened on a college campus recently, and one time my dad made an appointment to a gay dentist on my mom's behalf, he was all "teee, teee, teee" over the phone, because he thought he would be working on my dad.
He was FURIOUS when why mom came in, and almost broke her jaw.

[JackPreacher]

If it is just for burning that flag, that is the level of insanity we have reached, I agree with you burning the American flag is OK for crazy people to sit in the bench and rule over us, where is the freedom of expression when it come to burning flags according to the liberals and feminist (new feminist) that judge should be the one slapped in a jail for the same amount of years hopefully in a jail cell in Cuba, Venezuela Russia (hopefully in Siberia) or in China. One of those wonderful places where people do not have freedom of expression.
Most important now is to realized that they are willing to use their position to make of all of us criminals and punished with crazy sentences...

[Annarae]

16 years is just extreme. Goung yo jail is even more unecessary. Other things coyld have been done to punish him. This whole thing seems unfair, are they trying to say that the LGBTQ+ community is more important than anything else?
I admit he was wrong, but what's the point in sentencing someone to over a decade in prison because of a hate crime. Something doesn't sound right.

[Annarae]

Going to*

[ZeussLightningBolt]

LGBT people have become a protected species.
If they don't back off, they're gonna become an endangered species

[Annarae]

Species?😂😂 I agree

[ZeussLightningBolt]

LOL
Oh, you're Jamaican, so you know what's up. :p

[Annarae]

You can say that I do.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

https://youtu.be/xCrhfXjIEvY

The only uncensored version of this song on YouTube got taken down
They used to play it on US radio stations without knowing what it was about. Lol

[Annarae]

Whenever we speak about fish, chi chi man or batty man we mean gay people. Its because of the creole we got away with it for so long until they begin to realize what's it about.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

The other two I knew, but fish too? Lol

[Annarae]

I'm not a hateful person but my country does not really tolerate homosexuality. The men love the women too much.😂

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I know
Pretty much the entire Caribbean is like this

[Annarae]

Yes, and in Barbados it's bulla. Lol, have to be careful what you say around us.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I've been to Barbados and i thought it was "batty boy" there

[sejla]

Seems excessive even if you add the possible destruction of someone's property because of orientation. When he gets out he's going to hate LGBT people more than now. There has to be a better way to deal with the crime than 16 years. Is there a missing piece that is not mentioned in this article?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Well, a couple people in the comments said they found articles stating that he had priror felonies, but even in THAT case I feel 16 years is too much

[sejla]

I"d say if he had a pattern of violent crimes then that should be taken into account but from what information that was given no one was harmed physically. Maybe in the property thing it was shown to be a threat. It still seems excessive unless there is way more information out there. I have a feeling this case will be reviewed and adjusted. I mean Mark Wahlberg in his younger years was anti gay and beat up a guy and he changed his ideas after the years. I'm not saying this guy can be fixed but it seems like throwing away the key unless there is some fear that next time he might kill someone.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Yeah, Mark Wahlberg beat up gays, blacks and Asians and now he can't co run his brothers' burger business because of it

Liam Neison also said his friend was raped by a black guy and he walked around with a baseball bat for two weeks looking to "kill a nlgger"

So yeah, people can change.

In the US we have something called the "three strikes law"
If you commit two felonies, then do something as simple as steal a slice of pizza, you'll get thrown in the joint for 25 to life
It's a dumb law that really needs to be reformed

[sejla]

I guess I thought that was only in California the three strike law.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I know we have it in California for sure. But I guess other states have similar laws.

[JackPreacher]

I was thinking the same maybe there is a piece missing in the article...

[Dragonqueen03]

ALRIGHHHHHHTTT i support LGBTQ+ Alotttt butttttttttttttt 16 YEARS IS WAYYYYY TOOOO MUCHHHHHHHH!!! like i read a case where a girl murdered her parents and younger brother, she got out in 8 years with probation. LIKE AHHHH he should get like a year MAXXXX

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I agree
No more than a year

[Dragonqueen03]

Yessir

[chriscdi]

this is showing how sensitive our society has become, people can't express their opinions anymore, the only thing that he did that deserves time would be the crime that he stole something from a church and probably arson the guy is homophobic and doesn't like gays, giving him so much time for "hate crime" shows how stupid the law has become, they focused on his opinion instead of the actual crimes.

[chriscdi]

he doesn't agree with homosexuality, and he burned a gay flag, the problem here is that he stole a flag and burned it, i personally wouldn't have considered this a hate crime, i dont even believe hate crime should be a thing unless the crime is serious like killing someone or injuring someone.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

EXACTLY! I agree. It's his right to hate LGBT people if he wants to.

[Phoenix98]

So let me get this straight burning the American flag, the founding flag of our country that countless men and women have given their lives for is fine even though desecration of the American flag is actually against the law due to the flag desecration act. But burning a rainbow flag will net you 16 years in prison?

What the fuck?

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Pretty much, yes
I thought burning the American flag was protected by the first amendment

[Phoenix98]

I just went and looked it up, no your right it wasn't successful but there was an attempt to pass the flag desecration amendment. It should be illegal in my opinion, desecrating our flag your flag is like spitting in the face of everyone who came before you and all those who died and bled to ensure you have what you have now.

I don't think you should burn the rainbow flag either but burning the American flag should be the thing that nets you in prison if anything.

[scooogy]

At our university the LGBT people got to the point of haunting heterosexuals and still nobody said anything. That's this bias of "you're against me if you're not for me". I mean I don't even know what I must be all against since I didn't come to agreeing to whatever diversity groups came up during the past 2 years. Just hope I don't get sentenced for "being against something by not agreeing".

[ZeussLightningBolt]

I was labeled a homophobic bigot for posting that I was grossed out by those two gay guys making out on The Amazing Race

Apparently now Liberals are dictating how my brain and body should react to certain sights

[D_Bone_Steak]

I hate this hate crime bullshit... if it was the American flag, he'd probably got diddly squat.

The left wants more to come in because it will hell the votes... they don't realize though they're religious generally... and don't appreciate the same shit the religious right doesn't. I'm not surprised the tax paying ones that have citizenship secured are going to vote Trump 2020.

Meanwhile the village idiots are dancing around in joy for impeachment when the house vote for it isn't even being submitted to the senate yet...

15 years... this country has gotten so fucked up and stupid as a whole because this bullshit division of this or that. A damn child molester would be charged with less, but a rainbow flag is what's more important and puneable?

Clown world

[hellionthesagereborn]

That's illegal. They can't do that, that's a violation of the first amendment and on top of that has legal precedence (in the burning of American flags as it was found to be legal under the first amendment). He better take this as high up the courts as he can because that is utter bullshit. I'm not anti LGBT (just anti bullshit that many of the "progressives" spew), but he has every legal right to do that (stealing the flag however is illegal and that is destruction of property but any law that claims "hate crime" is simply illegal).

[BCA6010]

So here's my opinion: burning a flag, whether it's our flag, another country's flag, or a flag that represents some non-state organization should be protected as freedom of expression/protest/speech whatever. Period. End of story.

Now, burning the US flag (as an American) makes you look like an idiot since you'd be burning the very symbol of your right to protest.

Personally I think this guy is going to have a very easy time getting this one appealed. It was stupid to even jail him for it in the first place, and the punishment is absurd for what it is. People have gotten off easier for manslaughter.

[Carbon-12]

So I didn't read the yahoo article... because it's yahoo. But I did read about it on the BBC.
He was first kicked out of a strip club. Then stole the pride flag hanging on the church. Burned it infront of the strip club threatening to do the same to their building. On top of all this he confessed, and proceeded to explain how it was a privilege to be doing the "lord's work".

In short I think 15 years might be a little long, but I think he definitely deserves it.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Okay. Thank you for posting that. It's always good to have other sources.
But I still don't think he should be getting charged with "hate crime"

[Carbon-12]

In his confession he said he "burned down their pride, plain and simple".
If anyone should be being charged with hate crimes it is this man.
If hate crime laws should be a thing is a different argument.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

And what exactly did he mean by "pride"?

[Carbon-12]

He burned a pride flag. They were celebrating gay pride at the church by placing a pride flag at the entrance. He burned it down.

[glutendan]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the crime. If it did he'd just pay a small fine. This is about sending a message that if you dont welcome sodomy in this country and allow it to be perverted they will to to any length to put you down.

It's a sign of a dying country.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Pretty much yes

[talloak]

Speaking as a liberal, I find this utterly unacceptable. I wouldn't deem this as a hate crime and certainly not as arson. I don't have a problem with the reckless fire charge but that wouldn't be much of a punishment.

[ZeussLightningBolt]

Glad to see you're not all brainwashed
I agree with you. Larceny and creating a public hazard, at MOST

He'll probably only do a year though. No way in hell will this stick. People get less time for far more serious offenses

[talloak]

I hope you’re right for justice sake.