What do you think is difference of being intellectual/knowledgeable and Being a Wise person. Who do you want to be Intellectual or Wise! And why? If ever both where competing who would win intelligence or wisdom? I thinking this by far my best question so please participate ππ
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A Humble request to all to answer all the questions.
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Knowledge is reading all the questionsAnd Wisdom is answering All the three questions so be intelligent and wise and do answer all 3 Questions😂😭😎😅
What do you think is difference between Intelligence and Wisdom?
The question what either means I answer implicitly by analyzing intelligence and wisdom (cause I want to do so 😛 ):
The origin:
Intelligence is primary a bunch of natural skills and qualities of your mind, that can't be changed or improved. (Well common opinion says they rather can't, I should mention, that in my opinion and experience they can, but whatever.)
Wisdom is a state you have to acquire. Either by sampling many various experiencies or in period of very intense and abundant thinking that by any topic you think about covers large enough area and goes deep enough in the matter in each branch.
A comparison in usage: intelligence gives you the intrinsic ability to deal with completely new mental challenges more easily it allows your mind to be good in any kind of mental workings; wisdom allows you depth and broad perspective. Intelligence is all about how it (your mind) works, wisdom is all about what potential ressources and ways your mind can use.
The second question: I want to be both of course since to me they go hand in hand and an adequate development of each one is difficult without simultaneous development of respective other. My kind of mental ability is wisdom-intelligence and it is very clear to see, that in my mind they are united in the same entity. Probably since I was a child, it's how me intrinsically functions.
I am to a certain extent already. Well, I am only in areas, which I have already choosen to be it in and already gave it time to achieve it until now.
Third question: In a competition it would depend on what kind of task has to be solved. If it is a spontaneous task that doesn't relate to knowledge of either of participants intelligence would win. If it is a task that has some connection with in what wisdom has been acquired wisdom will win. (Please keep in mind, that to keep the answer most simple I striped here the wisdom of all intelligence and striped the intelligence of all wisdom while creating a completely abstract model. In truth acquiring wisdom for example almost always helps to develop intelligence at least a bit and hence the real results with real persons participating could be different. (They won't necessarily be different since by each person the value that describes how much the development of wisdom is related to development of intelligence and vice versa is different. Maybe by some people even approximately 0.))
I read other opinions now. Who say wisdom can be acquired only with direct experience, well you are mistaken. You forget about philosophers wisdom like wisdom in antique Greece. My wisdom for example IS philosophical.
The amount of comments on my other questions didn't receive much, but its when Gag selects it as great question it shows them on front page. So people see more of it and they comment and depending on what they interpret of the question, the first my take you answered of mine has hardly 5comments that to I requested them and personally invited them..
What I feel about the question is basically same but you used to many synonyms which clashes with meaning of each word so people themselves got confused before answering and making it understand is difficult so they didn't opt to answer is my best guess. But indeed it was one and same for people to answer them we need to make the questions short so they feel less intimadated by the question itself and express what they know
I have always viewed intelligence as how easily and quickly you can learn something. It will vary slightly only by how sharp or toned your mind is. I believe there is a cap to how intelligent you can be, however that doesn't mean you can't obtain the same level of knowledge as someone who is far more intelligent. We all over time will lose some intelligence along the way so for some time I say there is a bottom mean but it will drop. So yes I, and many others, agree it can change but only slightly and hinges on how well you exercise your brain.
@Ice_knight My claim is it can change not only slightly but a lot. But maybe it's not the case for everyone. However my belief is it is indeed. One only needs well adjusted methods. And I should specially mention: in my view intelligence includes "how easily and quickly you can learn" but it does include far more, for example how good you are in solving mathematical problems, finding, seeing and applying connections, how good you are when creativity is needed etc.
Interesting question. Both describe a different relationship to knowledge.
Intelligence is your ability to connect and understand the structure of knowledge. Patterns and analogy connect seemingly dissimilar elements.
Wisdom does a similar trick but over time. It focuses on changes in knowledge over time.
They both are like a flashlight at night. Intelligence is the brightness, showing every shadowy corner, and wisdom is the map you make from the light to know where you are.
I humbly decline to answer all 3 questions. I would just like to note that the questions were written based on an incomplete understanding of intelligence and wisdom eluded to in the overall post. As a result, most interpretations of the original question would result in answers that won't make sense 😉.
I asked this question mainly because even though I know answer and it's from my perspective, I can be open to others as well you need not answer all three questions cause you already answered it in first quest which was very well explained in a scientific approach that was the main reason I sm getting so many beautiful answers Fills me with joy
Intelligence is the ability to acquire and assimilate new information. Someone could be quite intelligent but uneducated and inexperienced and they would not actually have much useful knowledge.
Wisdom is the knowledge of human behavior and the ability to use that knowledge to navigate through life.
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Anonymous
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I do believe knowledge and intelligence are two different things. Someone not very cultured could be incredibly bright and vice versa (though I admit, it is rare that a fairly knowledgeable person doesn't possess at least a fair amount of intelligence to go with it).
1. Defining intelligence is a hard task in itself and I haven't quite figured it out myself yet so I won't go much in depth. If we define it in terms of IQ then it is mostly an innate quality. At its very core I believe it is something that helps you recognize patterns and make connections. The better and quicker you are at this, the easier it will be to learn new things. Intellectually at least.
Wisdom is something that is much broader. It is built from the active observation of your life experiences, and from the humility needed to recognize your own shortcomings and to look at situations quite impartially. There is much to learn in even the simplest things is life, and finding that hidden knowledge brings wisdom, as life has its own patterns that you have to learn how to recognize.
2. I would rather be wise. I believe being intelligent is a gift, but it doesn't necessarily make living life easier. Wisdom brings peace of mind and acceptance.
3. First of all I wanted to say that, in my opinion, competition is not something a wise person would be associated with.
To answer the question though, I think it depends on the situation which of the two "would win".
Learning and understanding abstract algebra? Intelligence wins hands down.
Figuring out what truly matters in life? Wisdom might have the upper hand.
On an ending note I do think intelligence and wisdom are somewhat correlated, but you only need to be averagely bright to be able to develop a level of wisdom. The amount you are able to develop depends on many different factors, not only on IQ. As I have said, humility for example plays a big role. A person who is not humble might be so fixated on the way they view and do things that they miss all the wisdom available from looking at things from a different point of view. The amount of life experience you allow yourself to have, the control over your emotions to maintain a clear mind, are also two things that can help build wisdom.
As someone who's most likely average in intelligence but quite observant and compassionate, this is my perspective on the matter 😊 And it's interesting to think about how it is going to evolve as I grow older and gain more life experience. re-state://background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (0, 0, 0), justifyLeft
1. It was a good perspective. 2. Its becoming harder to select MHO as I can do only two. 3. why is that someone intellectually beautiful lady is masking herself under the shadow of Anonymity. 4. I also beleive the same as your 3rd point, and wanted to see who would I match with its you π its not any reward though for you haha. 5. What are the last 2 lines re-state and color?
So my reasoning is this. Question 1 A lot of people are well educated, but not intelligent. They have the core knowledge, the book sense and are equipped with that but they do not know how to use it or harness it. An intelligent person is adept at learning, understanding and applying their knowledge gain. They are also always seeking more knowledge. The difference between intelligence as wisdom is TIME. It is as though intelligence speaks from the theoretical perspective whilst wisdom speaks from experience. Wisdom can only be gained by the passing of time.
Question 2 I am intelligent yes. Seeking always to be wise. Wisdom is something I know will be added to me as I experience more of the world, see and understand different cultures, encounter various types of people that I had no prior knowledge of. Intelligence is not something to seek. Whether a person is intelligent or not is based on how they use what they know. So a person would be wasting time saying I want to be intelligent, when they could literally be intelligent by changing their ways of thinking and being.
Question 3 Wisdom would always win until intelligence gains experience in the battle and becomes wise.
Intresting points I like your views, I also beleive wisdom not only comes with passing time but also by being self aware for me it's the highest point of being wise, the wisdom could be trigerred by lots of things being responsible and doing everything by yourself or by pain, pain teaches you more than any one could if you harness the pain and channel it properly there you get wisdom death is one more cause that can trigger wisdom you understand somethings that are more important in life but I maybe talking in a darker sense but nature surroundings or circumstances teaches us more..
Yes very valid point that wisdom is not achievable without introspection. Because time could pass and a person learns absolutely nothing simply because they are not conscious of what exactly is happening, the reasoning behind it and what would have affected them differently if they changed some factor of action, behavior or environment.
I don't think it is dark; speaking from experience... death teaches volumes, just as life does. I like your perspectives. Excellent question.
They're intertwined. I believe that you cannot be wise unless you're intelligent or have experience but you can be intelligent and not wise. Being wise allows you to make better use of your intelligence and organize it. Intelligence is more raw and abstract. It is raw cognitive power. Wisdom is more complex. It is a mixture of intelligence, willpower, and experience. To help you understand here's an example:Charles and James are both very intelligent men. They both have the same level of intelligence and same exact grades. Charles chooses to study "X" because it is an honorable career that can potentially help a large number of people and get him a lot of money. James instead chose career "Y" instead of career "X" even though career "X" is far superior in every way. James did that because he enjoys career "Y" a lot more than career "X", he knows he won't benefit himself or others as much in "Y" but he ignores logic because his heart told him to. Charles is wise and intelligent, james is intelligent but not wise. James does drugs despite knowing how dangerous they are and how deadly they can be because he enjoys the feeling they give him. Charles would never do that cuz he's wise. This was very difficult to write, I was half asleep and trying to stay awake. Staying up until 6 is not very wise.
Well it was good information, your efforts Didnot go waste many people will learn something for it. And you did better than me read some of my comments it was like I was drunkπ
intelligence vs wisdom... intelligence can be gotten out of books and through teachings, where as wisdom is a good amount of common sense that has been enhanced through practical experience.
anyone who as an ability to retain what they read or hear may be considered as an intelligent person, or be a candidate to enter an "intelligence" contest, but wisdom is not something learned through books or schools, but ONLY through a lifetime of actively living the experience..
an intelligent person can have what they might consider to be ALL the answers, but still not know how to use them, and only by putting the answers through the test of life, one can gain wisdom...
and only by gaining wisdom can a persons level of "experience of life in general" be proven... and be extremely proficient at using the knowledge gained... and a wise person is practical enough to know "how little they actually know about things", and yet not feel threatened or intimidated by what they dont know...
its hard to describe... but an opinion of mine is, the CIA, or central intelligence agency (of the united states) if full of facts, truths, lies and deceit... but within that agency, there is very little wisdom in using what they have collected... one can have the intelligence, but if they dont know how or when to use it, they can NOT be considered a wise person...
If I try to be succinct (not my forte), I would say intelligence applies to everyone. It's in the realm of acquiring general knowledge and skills.
Wisdom tends to be more subjective and based on personal experiences. It can't be reduced down to technical information. At the very least a most technically precise approach to sharing wisdom might span tens of thousands of pages and cover a seemingly endless number of possible scenarios and variables. Expressing and sharing wisdom usually has to work more towards figures of speech, metaphors, and be deliberately vague and poetic in nature since it requires the reader or listener to actually interpret things in a subjective way to become applicable to their own lives and experience. Some degree of fuzziness and vagueness is practically required to even attempt to share wisdom in any reasonably concise way.
As for a competition, I would say it depends on the competition. If the goal is to have the richest and most meaningful life that's filled with purpose and can make the best out of the most challenging situations, I might bet on the wise one. If the goal is to be a good leader, I'd definitely bet on the wise one since the wise one can make up for any intellectual gaps by listening to his/her advisors (which a wise leader would do). If it's solving a complex puzzle or inventing something new or winning in Jeopardy, then I'd vote for intelligence.
I could see everything boiling down to intelligence but it's usually too complicated to capture and comprehend in the most precisely detailed forms of knowledge. A scientist might be able to explain the laws of gravity that teaches us the optimal way to aim a projectile in a way that lands at the desired location. Yet they can't necessarily teach, in any reasonably concise way, how to best resolve a conflict with your specific lover. There are, at the very least, too many variables involved, and an elusive idea of what might even be "optimal" given the sheer number of unknowns and the subjective goals and experiences of all to whom it may be applicable. So it often falls upon experience, learning from trial and error, and if we try to share it, to summarize what might otherwise require tens of thousands of pages of information into something that will inevitably be terse -- if it's to have value to the reader or listener, such terse information will necessarily have to be imprecise and subject to a great deal of personal interpretation. I'd say wisdom tackles the type of knowledge that is too difficult, and too complex, to capture precisely in a technical paper.
What do you think is difference of being intellectual/knowledgeable and Being a Wise person.
Intelligence you are born with, knowledgeable is knowledge gained by learning or experience. Wisdom is knowledge gained by learning or experience too but has the ability to give you far greater riches.
Who do you want to be Intellectual or Wise! And why?
Wisdom because it can give peace of mind - to me that is worth more than all the money in the world. Gives you the ability not to be conditioned by society, and many other positives where true wealth lies.
If ever both where competing who would win intelligence or wisdom?
Wisdom for the reasons I outlined previously.
For me the greatest quote on wisdom comes from the "King" of wisdom Buddha "You are wise when you realise how little you know".
You can be born intelligent, but you cannot be born wise. Intelligence is simply the ability of being able to adapt your surroundings to your advantage. The more a species can manipulate their environment, the more intelligent they are considered. Wisdom, on the other hand, is knowledge that is acquired through experience and no amount of theoretical knowledge will make you wise.
Well said. I would like to add also that wisdom does necessarily depend on age as a child who has experienced a lot of trauma can be well ahead in wisdom and being able to recognise people than someone in their 30s or 40s who hasnβt been through the same things. Anyone at any age can experience things that makes them become wise.
Well intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing exactly but are similar and tied closely together. How many so called intellectual have just memorized large amounts of knowledge but lack the wisdom to use or imagination to percieve something that their learned knowledge does not know? Wisdom is a combination of experience, knowledge, and good judgement, that's why elders are usually considered to be wiser than youths even better educated youths who may only posse knowledge untempered by experience that comes with age needed to make good decisions.
Intelligence is just being knowledgeable or good at core skills, math, science, etc. Wisdom is when you are able to give good advice and foresight into the deeper meaning of things and situations. Far too many people think they are actually wise, when really they are just opinionated or old, no one who is wise thinks they are always right.
I like the way you think. I asked something similar a few months ago. Intelligence, knowledge, or wisdom? I did some research then and you can see my summaries there.
Intelligence is more like being able to solve a math question with just a few pieces of facts given to you, without any guidance at all. It measures someoneβs mental intricacy, understanding and sharpness.
Wisdom is when someone has lived through many things , have seen any things and have learned a lot about people and society due to it. Intelligent people tend to develop high levels of wisdom by the time they get old. Dumb people never reach a high levels of wisdom by the time theyβre old, I've seen this over and over again
Intelligence is how well you can aquire knowledge and skills. To be wise is to have experience, knowledge, and good enough judgement on when and how to apply them. I also think you don't need the experience so long as you have enough knowledge to make up for the experience. I have found all that are wise have knowledge experience and fine judgement, thus are actually intellectuals to some degree. It really depends upon the level of intelligence one has. If you are quite intelligent you can gather information rather quickly. However, if one already had knowledge of the subject I would surmise they would best the other.
Intelligence means the ability to learn and how quickly you learn from new information.
Wisdom means how much knowledge you retain.
Someone can be both intelligent and wise, or intelligent and forgetful (not wise), or wise, but not very intelligent (it may take them 5 to 10 times as long to learn the same thing as someone else).
To me, intelligence is the ability to think and act on your feet, to have your wits about you at the right time. You're quick to learn, and you have a potential to take in a lot of information.
However, I think wisdom comes from experience and careful observation. To be able to give solid advice comes from learning from your own mistakes, as well as others, after reflecting on them. I know intelligent people that make the same mistakes in life over and over again, and I think that's the true line. Book-smarts versus experience and reflection.
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Anonymous
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Intelligence is something you are largely genetically predisposed to, while wisdom is something that is learned and accumulated through years of experience. The two are related in the sense that someone with greater intelligence is going to have an easier time learning the lessons that ultimately lead to wisdom.
I want all leaders to be both intelligent and wise because it takes both to be good leaders, and leader of all forms and all roles are very important in shaping society and teaching others.
Some good answers here. Kinda reminds me of an old set of verses: "He who knows not and knows not he knows not; he is a fool. Shun him." "He who knows not and knows he knows not; he is simple. Teach him." "He who knows and knows not he knows; he is asleep. Wake him." "He who knows and knows he knows; he is wise. Follow him."
Intelligence (IQ) is processing power while wisdom is the stored data from processed events. Think on your feet in a completely new environment is intelligence while any reliance on experience to help answer is wisdom or possibly only knowledge. Knowledge is more closely related to wisdom differing only in wisdom is internalized knowledge meaning that wisdom is acquired by direct experience rather than knowledge that could be book learned and not experienced.
Donald Trump supposedly has a WAIS I. Q. of 145, yet he is highly unwise. He runs his mouth about all sorts of topics that hee has no education or experience in, and makes a FOOL of himself all the time, and he lies about all sorts of things and falsely accuses all sorts of people about any number of things.
So A high I. Q. is "intelligence", but running your mouth about shit you have no education or experience in is "unwise".
I don't know if this is correct but to me intelligence is the ability to combine things together while wisdom is the ability to identify things in their absolute and direct sense - so if you can do a math equation you are intelligence cause you know how to combine A + B + C / On the other hand if you know that XYZ is Hebrew and Not Yiddish because you are familiar with patterns and philosophical groupings you are wise cause you are using your faculty of identification and discrimination
Intelligence is the ability to comprehend and interpret data. Wisdom is the ability to use that data to solve complex problems. As to what would win would depend on the competition and metrics you are using to assess their performance.
Former Medic Usaf. Retired. Was that something that a data scientist would say. I often wondered if I chose the wrong career. I probably would have found Intel more rewarding but they were a little vague about what that job entailed. π
Intellectual knowledge is education and learning from teachers and books, wisdom is gained by life experience and knowledge , one gives you the knowledge of how something is done or how it works, but wisdom is gained by actually having a working hands on experience like our instructor in ammunition and explosive training said now you know what the books say throw them away and learn for real now.
Knowledge is the illusion created by you not knowing you don't know ANYTHING.
Wisdom is knowing what to say (or what not to say) and when, and how, regardless of the fact that you know fully well it's not the ultimate truth. It helps to know your audience and where they're at (in spiritual development).
Well, actually in English even the word sageness is not what you describe. What you describe can be called most accurately "spiritual sageness". I assume to you it is the most valuable thing, to me it is the most valuable thing too (due to my intrinsic nature). However me personally after reaching some level of it saw that wisdom and intelligence shouldn't be important less at least to myself - and that's due to my consciousness.
@Regmorus Don't believe everything you see, or rather, anything you see. Especially don't believe anything you think you should think. Including where I'm from, where I live, what you think my first language is, etc.. But I get you. And don't agree. But that's okay. Semantics. Clash of internal dictionaries. Such is human word-based communication with its well-known nuances. But what would we expect of monkeys making small mouth noises that claim to have the potential mental capacity to have a comprehensive, all-encompassing understanding of the Universe. No, no, no, young bucky.
Hm, you seem to have acquired some other things but still to lack the lightheartedness and acceptance of what is:). I always said the level of development should be estimated for any single thing separately in any human. Well, your own path should lead you. Yeah, you are right about internal contradictions, it's the human world, it's the beauty of the human world and it's obvious secret. However there are things that in given context are more truth than the other. The dogma of subjectivity of truthness isn't universally appliable, moreover it isn't the right thing to apply it in some cases. Well you'll get there, if you really don't see the ambiguity and arbitraryness of the claim of subjectivity itself too right now it means.
@Regmorus There is Intelligent Infinity. The rest is a single thought playing out in an infinity of layers of illusions. Where do your objective truths fit into that?
Manifestations of disturbances on the surface of the intelligent universe that resonate with this one single thought that itself is nothing more than just a bigger disturbance, the more resonance with the more different disturbances at ones under further to specify circumstances, the more truthness. Well or if you are speaking about there is only one thought, only yours, then just the more resonance since the entity of disturbance is just one. (in any caseif looked at as a visual picture somewhat similar to the steady quantum fluctuations of the material universe the physics people suppose to be the origin of the big bang)
Well, then I don't really get why you need to add infinite intelligence or where it fits in your own picture. Then far more beatiful picture is when there is just this "Thought that thinks itself", well in my eye far more beatiful. Of course preferencies differ
@Regmorus Okay, let's go with your terminology. So from the perspective of the thought that thinks itself, tell me of these non-subjective truths you were talking about. Because as far as I see it, even concepts like reincarnation lose their meaning, there being absolutely no reference to even attempt a definition or even a description. You can set up imaginary constructs within which you may define these, for your own satisfaction of your need to define something so you can have a "truth".
So, were you saying that the idea that all truths are subjective is wrong because you can tell me a whole lot of truths that are objectively, unchangingly "so", regardless of the level of perspective from which it is viewed? I would love the hear a few of those.
No, this idea is not wrong, nor right. This idea itself is subjective. We, by our discussion now are within this construct and anything on any level can be regarded as arbitrary and illusory just like you say. But I want to specially highlight now that we don't have any right to take our discussion itself out of this. That's one possible illusory view of this theory. But then there is practice. And in practice (more, not entirely) objective truths are just things that correlate with or are justified the most by other illusory things (so by speaking about it now I am inetntionally IN the realm of the illusion). So there isn't anything real in illusory realm from one supposed (and itself illusory) perspective supposed by us, but on the level of illusion the interconnections and interdependencies between illusions are real for these illusions. And these define these pseudoobjective truths.
@Regmorus The only conclusion I am getting here from what you're saying is that you believe there are limits to the reality a God-spark has the potential to create in an infinite Universe.
You see, there is no point talking about the subjectivity or objectivity of truth, because it all depends on the level, or depth, of the illusion within the confines of which you want to define. You might as well say that the existence of gravity is an objective truth. The pertinent point here is that the first distortion of the Original Thought is Free Will. It transcends all other illusions, even Love.
This is why no matter how much "evidence" you present to a pseudo-skeptic of, say, extraterrestrial life (crop circles, cattle mutilations, multiple-witness-radar cases, disclosure project, citizen hearing, etc.), or the existence of the soul / reincarnation (Stevenson's research, OBEs, NDEs, astral projection, children with past life memories, Past Life Regression, etc.), the pseudo-skeptic will ALWAYS be able to think of alternative explanations for every single "evidence" provided. Thusly free will is maintained. This is exactly why anyone with sufficient intellectual capacity could be a flat-earther if they wanted to, because with the mindset of the pseudo-skeptic I can with ease "debunk" every single argument that you could ever bring up to "prove" the earth is a geoid shape. In short, even in the densest layers of the illusion, you cannot present a single truth as objective, because if anyone who is determined to practice their birthright of free will (which 99.99% of the population of the planet has given away to authorities like the PTB, religions, gurus, ideologies, etc.) will be able to shred your every argument to pieces.
The net result? Everyone believes what they will. When you are ready to "evolve", there will come a moment when you decide to believe differently, and call it learning, personal growth, or spiritual evolution, depending on where you are and who you are.
You insisting that within the illusion (which one?) there are objective truths translates to you insisting that there is a level of understanding below the universal that is absolute. Which is self-contradictory.
Do you see the fallacy, the idea of "objective truths within the ullusion" being a self-defeating notion?
I thought exactly this way some time ago. Life shows that this can't be hold. But more concretely about the gravity. In the realm we are in, in the common realm of human perceptions within the illusion gravity is real. You want to debunk it? Well, you can try BUT. I'm not saying that human description is accurate or true or anything human can say about gravity (yes, it is but with some special yet to specify restrictions). What I'm saying let be it now only: if I hold my mobile phone in my hand and loose the grasp it will fall. This is true. Of course one could begin to speculate about whether fall exists, whether I really see what is happening, whether down and top are not the same, whether there exists objective motion and countless other things or projections of mind... But it doesn't change the fact, that is fact to some degree indeed if enclosed in illusonary realm, it doesn't change the fact that my phone will fall. Not hover in air, it will fall. To some certain degree if viewed as enclosed in illusonary realm and if we don't jump between higher and lower levels of cosideration inside of single thoughts, it is just true, objectively.
No, I don't see any fallacy yet. The objectivity of this truths is subjective. I never claimed ABSOLUTE OBJECTIVITY. What I spoke about was objectivity that is legit in some certain frame of reference, there is always a frame of reference by thinking whether a human knows about in which he is speaking or not (well to be precise the thinking can always be viewed as such that there is a frame of reference and this model gives good predictions and results). No, as you can see it isn't self-defeating at all. Our model itself suggests nothing absolute, so I never spoke about absolute and of course before we created our model I never did. But the good to think about as objectivity and absolte objectivity can be in many aspects regarded as the same in normal life.
@Regmorus In the age when even science acknowledges the critical role of the observer in physical phenomena you cannot hold things like gravity as objective truths. Insisting that gravity is real on our level of illuson (or on any level for that matter) indicates a lack of awareness of (for sake of convenience) mind over matter. What does this mean?
There is an infinite spectrum of levels of consciousness. The human mind being a smaller band within that spectrum. At this level, like at any other level, there is exactly zero capacity to maintain the existence of any subjective truths. There was a day when modern humans thought they had it all figured out, with the exception of black-body radiation and the photoelectric effect. It was at this point a certain eminent physicist stated:
"There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement."
Guess what happened? Within the next few years the two problems above lead to the emergence of a whole new physics, based on General and Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Everything we as a race have come to believe to be so and so collapsed.
Today, just when we thought we had a good grasp of reality, into our picture come dark matter and dark energy, non-locality (quantum entanglement), quantum superposition, backwards-flowing time, and other mind-boggling yummy stuff. We are in the age where physics is NO LONGER able to ignore the role and importance of mind / consciousness in our PERCEPTION of what we think of as reality. Even at our level or reality, as on all levels, the Universe is simply a hologram. I assume you have watched Leonard Susskind's lecture. If you enjoy quantum thermodynamics I recommend it.
It seems the Universe has infinite capacity for mystery, does it not? Have you ever pondered why this seems to be the case, from our human perspective?
On a less abstract and more practical level you only have to research and consider psychic phenomena like ESP and your idea of "laws of physics" goes down the drain in an instant with gravity not being a magical exception. Of course, you have the FREE WILL to dispute all the accounts of levitation and call D. D Home a hoax, in spite of the fact that no skeptics were ever able to expose him, or any others of dozens of other people who either experienced this phenomenon involuntarily or were able to produce it on demand.
Objective truths? If the Universe were not one infinite spectrum of consciousness and if its very nature were not infinite mystery that ever recedes beyond the perpetually shifting horizons of those that would observe its manifestations, I could accept it. However the case is the opposite. Simply put, "objective truth" is a concept that is simply not compatible with the notion of "free will", which happens to be the very architecture all levels of illusion inescapably rely on.
Yep, I know and thought through that all since relatively long (What about examples from physics, I'm a physicist (professional) among everything else.). Still what you will do, you will be forced to duck and to take the phone in your hand again. That is what I mean. What I mean is you can build whatever you want in your mind, you will still go to eat , you will still duck and take your phone up and so on. And this is objective. Not because one can see it so or so or so (I could produce myriades of alternative models to the one we rely on now in our discussion), but because what you will do will be exactly these things.. If you don't eat, you die. Again one can see it as one wants, it'll happen.
@Regmorus You may bring up as many arguments as you want, your views will always remain parts of a chosen belief system, nothing more.
We all have to eat? I have been researching breatharianism EXTENSIVELY for years. It is your prepogative to use your free will to not accept the phenomenon as real.
You say sicknesses are real. Diabetes is real. No, they are not, and it is not. They exist in the mind ONLY, like everything else. Simple hypnosis has cured many people. (QHHT). What about this:
Yes, there is objective truth. It changes from person to person, from moment to moment, depending on where you focus your awareness with what degree of singularity. For the average person with a undisciplined mind and dispersed consciousness it will remain relatively constant. However it will be very different from someone practicing Higher Magick. And even the Magi's reality will shift if s/he is a practitioner of Chaos Magick. The day comes when one learns to be able to shift his/her reality at will. If this is their free will choice and they have mastered the Disciplines of Personality.
If any of these are unfamiliar territory to you you may or may not want to do your research into these fields, as you see fit, depending on what you want to believe. "Objectively", of course.
To me π This is far more than just familiar. You have completely wrong impression of what I am. Scientist and rationality is one of my lives. Well, but I thought you won't discuss like this (nothing bad or what could have been done better - I'm honest; just not what I've expected). I would say we should agree to disagree at this point. And I'm a bit suprised that YOU know about Chaos Magic me and my friend have been being practicioner for years. And I bend reality when it has to be done and have been taught how to do. Well it doesn't matter. You don't get my message. I got yours. Nothing can be changed on this it seems. Have a nice time!
@Regmorus I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that there exists such a level or illusion at which there exist objective truths when viewed from within that illusion.
If you were trying to say something else I would welcome if you could re-state your point.
Otherwise if you insist upon the above I will maintain the primacy of consciousness and free will above all else in any frame of reference. That includes matter and energy and all their interactions. Are you familiar with the idea that the "laws" of nature are not really rigid laws but more like HABITS? I assume it would not be a new idea to you if I were to say that these "laws", and the universal "constants" are all subject to change through time as well as space. Even without the presence of higher-level conscious observers.
In any case, English not being the first language of either of us certainly does not help us understand each other. And no, my first language is not German. Ich kann ein bisschen Deutsch sprechen. My mind is simply not wired for that particular language. I know where you got the idea from though. Another seeming truth turning out to be a non-truth. I'd say, don't believe anything.
I am curious though, how do you reconcile your scientific view of the world with your practising Chaos Magick? And if you practice Chaos Magick, why were we having this debate about some kind of objective truth? Reality in one particular configuration only exists in one mind, every mind sees its reality slightly differently. Of course, for one mind, reality might seem unchanging and objective for a short period of time. But to insist that that percetion had any life of its own in the sense of being universal, interacting with all observers in the same manner... People even see the same color differently. My blue is your green.
Have you shared your Chaos Magick journey anywhere? I'd love to read.
Well, my point is indeed exactly what you restated.
About the primacy of consciousness and free will, well, I certainly was a holder of exactly the same firm belief but then I saw that this belief can be improved at least in my life for my interactions with the world, namely when I loose my grasp of it complletely, when neither science nor things beyond human nor anything else will be my inclination, but at the same time everything of it will be my domain when needed- so nothing that is everything - but it had explicitly to include neither things beyond human too - so the absolute middle.
That is why I insist on some applicability of statement about objective truths. In the realm of every day life (let's say completely isolated from everything else, so I consciously don't want to think now about free will and consciousness - I guess you would say I'm not allowed to do so and I see that nd why you can and are allowed to see so, I view just differently:namely that I'm allowed. We can find arguments for both positions but in the end the underlying thing is just an axiom, arguments are a spectacle at this point (to me) ), this statement has it's legitimacy to some extent.
So I'm not really arguing with you, because I'm convinced that we just start by different axioms (yes, I know I should consider I might be wrong and I know that this scenario can exist, I just choose not to look at this scenario). I am rather trying to show what I mean or what I believe or (believe to) see because in such situation of discussion which I believe we are in now this is the only thing doable.
About languages yep, I wasn't sure anyway, but I didn't know that you are on the level of the language realm where languages aren't distinguished anymore by mind and awareness. You know, the most common thing to assume is that someone isn't and so I reasonably assumed it and perceived the thing as legit argument for my suspicion.
How my views are in friendship I explained above, I have no views and have em all. I am absolute middle. Each action we have to take or each thought we have to think to solve this or that task in life makes only sense with other thing together and in the end is only about interconnections. So I just use the one kind of interconnections of things when I am doing something in magical realm and the other when I'm doing something in scientific realms (and sometimes both to see unexpected solutions in scientific realm for example.) There can't be any conflicts, because on the deepest level of me there is nothing (that is everything), nothing can't cause conflicts.
No I don't claim about anything it'd be universal, what I am trying to say, in some certain frame of references with some certain restrictions to me personally in my life it surely makes sense to think of some things as universal for some ceratin durations by knowledge that this universality of these things is intrinsic property of my frame of reference, in other words I define the frame of reference explicitly in the way that the thing is universal. You see, what I'm saying is exactly there is no absolute truth, but what I'm doing, I'm extrapolating this non-existence of universal truth to such degree that this non-existence of absolute truth allows the existence of (illusory) absolute truths if certain restrictions are given as frame of reference for these truths.
About my journey I can't say anything. I should mention that we weren't taught the magic of cahos by an order or by books we were taught it by some other sources that aren't commonly known or maybe aren't known at all. Hence this supposedly known notion of yourney is an unknown to me.
@Regmorus Do you have experience involving "speaking in tongues"?
Regarding you journey, I will be guessing that it involved altered states. Self-enquiry, self-exploration, self-discovery, meditation would be the classic tools. A twist on these would be working with the assistance of non-physical, non-corporeal entities, similar to communication with the higher self in either meditation or under hypnosis, alternatively self-hypnosis. Finally channeling discarnate, astral, extraterrestrial, or other (don't want to list) entities. But these will be understood with time as extensions of the self. Lastly psychedelics or self-induced psychedelic states, like holotropic breathing. Would any of these be close?
About my journey: Well it was somewhat different. It started at age of 7 when some entity came and said that it shall be my master in everything that it will take me on my path (I had to call it just "Master").
Then everything happened under his leadership. Very much of all what I did was taught by him personally, so it's not from books. The basic exercises for development of psychic abilities first, body energy control exercises, meditations. Simultaneously I was taught by him some kind of philosophy, daoism, morals, spirituality (no books or stuff, only later on I have found what he taught me in known books in altered form and have discovered it is known to humanity (well not all)). I had to learn to control emotions, to control my wishes, to control almost everything that can be controlled. Then at the age of 14 something major happened. I burned my human being completely to ashes in order to forge the new one. After burning all what I was I have ancountered nothingness for the first time (to desribe it would be too long), let's say I was outside this world or outside all worlds. I wanted to kill myself. It was too much for a teenager. Then there came things like manifestation of own wishes in life (manipulation of situations, their occurence or not-occurence, time). The further i went the less there was from human and more from whom I always was or have become thanks to Master. Later in life there were two more encounters of nothingness. By the last encounter I stepped on the way from there I submitted to it, from there my whole being willingly was to be consumed by it. Then it happened. The nothingness was complete. On that day I entered what human call nirvana. My spiritual way was completed and the time came when I had to begin to seek perfection in human affairs since this was rather abandoned by me all the time. In between there happened many things like sex with demons, nymphs, a talk with christian god, memories of past live (s) have occured, I have discovered that I'm bound on someone who died very long time ago and so on...
All possible stuff. Now I'm in the phase of establishing reality and evolvement and major changes in spiritual realm just go on, I don't really pay attention anymore. One part of my thinking is intentionally isolated for autnomous self-development. One important thing more I had to learn was complete mental control, so I never have thoughts that I don't let occur consciously or don't allow. And the most recent thing is some light from outside calls me. It can't be compared to anything it is a sensation not from this world, a door where only brightest light is behind. But now when I have nothingness in me already it is like that world wants me to be completely his part and that means to cease be human (well I guess without abandoning physical body but who knows). In the mean time I had to improve intelligince, wisdom, mental skills, human perception, abilities to interact with physical and scientific world so everything in social and real world in order to proceed my development. To me it is directly related to the spiritual development, well one includes the other and the other includes the one. Something like that.
That is certainly not all, I don't remember everything, there was soo much, every week or month happened a change in world view and every three days happened something magical or what involved entities. I ceased to pay any attention to any of it after some time, because it's just completely normal and not of special interest to me anymore (well, because nothing is)
A lot of people here are gonna show their knowledge... that's intelligence... I'm gonna read them all to increase my level of knowledge and to make my view of the world a bit wider instead of narrowing it down by adding one more opinion before knowing what others think. THAT'S WISDOM.
I have no intention of disrespecting anyone. I just wrote my first thought.
If I have to answer the other two questions then I'll answer both in a single point.
A wise man knows he should not lack the enough knowledge needed to attend the issue in the best possible way. If I'm a wise person I'd have knowledge as my strength and that being said... a wise person with knowledge as a strength wins against a intelligent man who doesn't know how to use it. It's all what you do at the end not what you think.
First of all I want to say that intelligence and knowledge is not the same thing
But in this context you might use it as same
As you question is about the capability of the mind versus wisdom
For intelligence you need to have an IQ which is something inherited
You can gain knowledge over a period of time even if you are not intelligent
Wisdom wisdom also doesn't comes overnight Over the time wisdom will come to youd depending on the type of person you are , and how good you are in analysing the situations with your intelligence and knowledge and your vision
I would rather be wise from experience because with intelligence you can only be as smart as the person teaching you and they may be wrong. The answer to the third question would be wise for the same reason.
Knowledge or intelligence is overstanding the physical world u live in that govern or feed yr 7 senses, which is yr body and mind... that spring Forth desires that yr eyes feed on, communicating with individual and overstanding other things etc... wisdom is overstanding the unseen world that govern this physical world we live in... knowing who created all things, spiritual part of us that control the physical part of us, knowing th spiritual world that control this physical world, having faith in the unseen that u will see... so wisdom is knowing truth , so hav to hav a relationship with our true father... and knowledge or intelligence is overstanding the things our eyes see...
Intelligence is someone's cognitive abilities. Wisdom is a person's accumulated and usefully applied knowledge.
You seem to be using "intelligent" and "intellectual" interchangeably. They are not one and the same though. Every intellectual is intelligent, but not every intelligent person is an intellectual. An intellectual is someone who thinks critically and rationally, is self-reflective and creative, and who analyzes complex phenomena and comes up with their own theories and ideas.
But knowing knowledge is different but where and when it needs to be applied is what they call wisdom I understand your point of saying they are both the same but wisdom is future of knowledge am I right?
No. Any idiot can claim to be wise. The world's full of self-proclaimed wise men who dish out advice without a single qualification or days training to back it up.
Oh sorry.. I would rather be wise.. Because an average person can get smart with time and effort, but intelligence itself does not do much if you dont upgrade it with knowledge.
To keep it simple, my definition of intelligence and wisdom is: Intelligence - How fast you learn Wisdom - How much you know
Intelligent people tend to learn way quicker, for obvious reasons. But people don't necessarily need to be intelligent to know a lot. You can be wise without being one to learn quick.
I think being intellectual is being book smart, you know things whether it is helpful or not. Being wise is knowing things of time or life and being able to teach about them when the time is right I'd like to be wise as it would give me a better opportunity to teach and pass on lessons to others. I think wisdom would win just by a little bit
Intellect knowledge can be learned. But not everyone is wise enough to apply what they learn. You can be both you know, but if had to choose, I'd choose wisdom and wisdom will always win β₯οΈ🙂
Intellect and wisdom go hand in hand. Knowledge comes first (experience and study). Then comes understanding, where your intellect puts the pieces of the puzzle together and you understand the "why's" of the matter. Then comes wisdom, which can be boiled down to "when".
Wisdom can't exist where intellect does not. You have to know "why" the "what" happens before you can know "when" to use it... and when not to
Wisdom is derived through experience and living. Intelligence is the fruit of knowledge. It takes wisdom to absorb and retain intelligence. Wisdom will win out everytime over intelligence because with wisdom you retain knowledge.. * note: all things are subjective, this is just my opinion. It's neither right nor wrong.
I think of it like this: intelligence is knowing the correct answer. Wisdom is experience, and experience translates to knowing something will happen even if it's not logical.
Wisdom is how you use your intelligence gained from experience. Older people tend to be more wise than younger people because they have more experience. Younger people can still be very intelligent, but lack wisdom. But you can still grow to be an old fool.
Wisdom is the PROPER application of truth. Intelligence is merely the ability to retain, process and/or apply information. Many very intelligent people are not often wise, but all wise people are very often intelligent.
Intelligence is naturally in you wisdom is something you aquire over years. One thing I do know for sure is education and how many years something goes to college is meaningless when it comes to intelligence. It is just memory retention it might be great for a certain job like a doctor but anybody can memorize stuff.
Hope somebody would have done it for Corona event I think I should have asked to Mr. Trump, or Modiji and also Mr. xi jingping so the world would have been better
I don't think you can directly compare the two. I always say intelligence as a hybrid of wisdom and knowledge. Knowledge vs wisdom on the other hand is a different story.
Wisdom is the ability to make good life decisions and intelligence is the ability to learn quickly and solve puzzles and come up with solutions to problems but wisdom is more spiritual and more relevant to just living a good life
Knowledge is reading all the questionsAnd Wisdom is answering All the three questions so be intelligent and wise and do answer all 3 Questionsππππ
Wisdom is more than experience and acceptance of how things are. Wisdom is having knowledge and good judgement in using said knowledge. Knowledge can be gain various ways, through experience, reading, watching etc.
I think Intelligence is the ability the assimilate novel information quickly. Whereas, wisdom is the accumulation of experience gained through the use of information.
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