I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome which is a genetic connective tissue disease. I lived in pain all my life. I have had over 30 surgeries. My husband and I have opted not to have kids. Not only do we not want any but we don't want to pass it along. Yet we see people who insist on bringing sick special needs children into this world who will never leave the nest. Also with EDS there is a high percentage of autistic kids being produced. I told one woman that I randomly met and told her I thought she had EDS and I told her she shouldn't have anymore kids. Her two previous kids have autism and of course she didn't listen. Her third kid is so severely autistic that she cannot even communicate. The family went to Disney World but had to leave the severely autistic kid behind. They claimed that the kid wouldn't have been able to handle the stimulation. I strongly agree that people like myself shouldn't pass on any genetic condition.
Good for you and your husband for having the insight to not have children.
@MORPHEUS_12 May I ask which type of EDS you have, if you don’t mind sharing? It’s cool if you don’t wanna share, I’m just curious but don’t feel obliged to tell me☺️
That's your decision, and you are entitled to it.
Strongly disagree.
1. Because a disability shouldn’t determine somebody’s right to have children.
2. Disability doesn’t equate to inability. For many disabled people disability does not make them incapable of everything. Certain tasks may be difficult and they may need help with certain things, but that doesn’t mean every disabled person is incapable of looking after a child.
3. I’m disabled so to agree with this would be even more stupid for me than anyone
I’d just like to add a fourth point. Are there some disabled people just incapable of looking after a child for physical and/or mental reasons? Yes, but this is determined often by doctors for medical reasons and it’s not mandated by the law. If a country was to create legislation to prevent every disables person from having children, they’d essentially be putting all disabled people into one box saying “you are all incapable” as for the point about children being born and having to live a life of pain, I’ll touch on that next but I have to go pray now so I’ll do that when I’m done
Opinion
39Opinion
Who decides what's serious? If this was a law then people would have to apply for a permit to have kids. Now you have some government official with the power to decide if you're allowed to have kids or not. And what would happen if someone broke the law?
Would they pay a fine? Would they go to prison and disadvantage the child that was just born? Or would you wanna forcefully sterilize them like the Nazis did to 400 000 disabled people (and killed over 70 000).
Then comes the additional problem of what if someone says they're being denied because of other factors like race for instance?
I don't want kids atm because I don't want the responsibility I'm still trying to establish myself and grow but maybe in 10 years I'll change my mind. I have asd and I would have to think about it I'd certainly be hesitant but I don't think my life is impacted so strongly that it's not worth living. There's a good chance I'll never have kids but it's down to personal responsibility and also finding a partner is already a barrier.
There will always be irresponsible people but the alternative is far worse. It's kind of shocking to me that 28% agree with this.
There's only a chance that it will be passed on to the children. Yes some will have a higher chance than others but it's not a guarantee that the child will ultimately get it. Some inheritable disabilities can actually occur in the development stages of sperm, egg and so on from an unknown and unpredictable variant that causes a mutation, meaning that two people with no such disability and no family history of one can have a baby with one. Honestly I could list many more variables that can effect the chances of an inheritable disability being passed on. It's to complex and not very straightforward. If we go by this logic then no one should be able to have kids since there is still a possibility of cells mutating in the early developing stages of conception.
When pregnant, they actually test the baby for down syndrome and other disabilities regardless if either parent carries or has a family history of a certain gene. So it's safe to say that anyone having a baby will always pose a risk.
I believe that we end up scientifically knowing more about these inheritable disabilities and other variants as more are born. In essence it's needed to help with discovering treatments, cures and prevention methods. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will and I don't think it's right for anyone's rights to have children be denied for any reason.
I was diagnosed in my 20s with a chronic auto immune disorder. My life thereafter has been in and out of hell. One of the first things that I wondered was, could I pass this on to a kid because there was no way in hell I wanted that. In the dark of night, I never wanted a kid to sit there and think, why the hell do I have to go through all this, if I knowingly could have prevented such suffering. Thankfully for me, the odds are very low at 10%, but I knew definitively that if the odds were high, there was no way I would even potentially entertain the thought of having biological kids.
Random, but in college, my Bio professor was giving a lecture on genetic disorders, and like in the middle of it, he quite literally got pissed off and turned to all of us and was like, we could end genetic disorders if people who are known carriers would just STOP HAVING KIDS! He literally yelled at us. Everyone was just kind of in shock, but he's also not that wrong. There are other ways to have children, but to know basically that you're going to bring a child into this world with severe mental and physical conditions---I have a friend now who has a daughter who cannot speak, has to have a breathing and feeding tube, and just sits in a wheelchair all day long. They have to spend all their time (not to mention insane expenses) in between the nurses, just keeping her alive because there is nothing she will ever be able to do for herself---what type of life is that?
Hope you complained to the dean about his ableist behavior.
I strongly agree. I know I'm going to be hated after saying this but when people are thinking about having children there are a lot of things they should take into consideration. Serious inheritable disabilities is one of them. Having kids when you know they will have your disability is cruel. Not only to yourself but also to your child. They will have a life full of suffering and pain, they won't be able to enjoy their lives. Not to mention that they will dependent on their parents or whoever takes care of them until they die. Living a life like that doesn't sound worthy to me.
Adolf Hitler and his merry band of Nazi henchmen thought that inheritable disabilities and deformities should be purged from the gene pool. Their solution: extermination... Although I agree that these "corrupted" genetics, for lack of a better phrase at 1:23 am, should be dealt with, I believe that genetic manipulation, genetic engineering, and gene therapies are the way to go. Not allowing people to reproduce is horrible, except in the case of an extinction level event, better to conserve resources then... That would be messing with the natural course of human evolution, which could have disastrous consequences farther down the road... Depending on the other genes that tend to be linked to theses undesirable traits, they could be the solution to some biological problem later, like having antibodies to a plague or be the key to reducing the size of an organ that is too big for a person.
Disagree, although I can see the logic in it.
The problem is, who determines what is a dangerous disability or how high the odds are that they shouldn't risk reproduction from it? I mean, by that logic, most human beings shouldn't be allowed to breed due to their insanely low intelligence and rarity to comprehend common sense...
So I think most humans aren't the best judges of who should be allowed to have kids and who shouldn't. I could argue 99.9% of the population should be sterilized, especially if they smoke marijuana, drink alcohol, engage in unsafe recreational sex, are partially homosexual ("bi"), or any number of "common" things everyday people do that I personally think could be harmful to society if spun the right way.
You want Brave New World? Cause that's how ya get Brave New World. And Aldous Huxley was a hack!
There are some dominant traits that can be inherited from one parent, and the odds are 50-50. There are actually parents who are aware of this, and continue to crank out kids in spite of the 50-50 odds. I don't relate to this on any level and I disagree with their choice. Especially since they know of it and are aware.
But to say that they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce? There are human rights issues there. That would mean forced sterilization. Not sure society or government should do that except in extreme cases.
And there are other genetic diseases, where if the offspring inherits the gene, they may or may not get the disease. It goes beyond being a dominant or recessive trait. Schizophrenia is like that.
There are actually professional genetic counselors who deal with this all of the time. They have a Master's Degree and are licensed by their state, etc. I would find it interesting to study that. However I don't think I'd make a good genetic counselor because I'd just tell everyone not to reproduce because I'm not big on reproducing anyway... LOL!
I only somewhat agree. If you know there's a high chance of your kids inheriting your disabilities, isn't it selfish and immoral to try and have kids? That being said, I also believe everyone deserves a chance at happiness and restricting people with disabilities from having kids is very unfair. But then again... the world is unfair.
It might really be better to just have a vasectomy or your tubes tied and accept not having kids and go full into finding love and a partner that will accept that and you as a person. We already have a problem with overpopulation.
My ex told me a while ago that her egg count was extremely low and she would most likely not be able to have kids. I told her I completely accept that and got used to the concept of life without having biological kids. If a normal guy without disabilities like myself can come to terms with it, then I'm sure many people can.
Who gets to decide the value of a life?
Beethoven wrote some of his most amazing music after he went deaf
I met an artist who made incredible sculptures in clay a few years ago who was born blind
I know several incredible ballet dancers with Downs Syndrome
What justifies someone telling me my life is of less value because I'm in a wheelchair? People look at me differently now I'm in a chair. They ask about how I am - but they ask the person pushing me instead of me.
Who decides if someone with inherited differences is "disabled"? Just because we have different abilities than you doesn't make us disabled. Just different. Can you travel 50 yards on one leg? Can you hear a mouse running across the floor? Can you walk across a road with your eyes closed safely?
Who are you to say I shouldn't have children because they *might* inherit a disability?
I'll trust God thanks.
At the age of 36 and the parent of two, I posed the same question to a senior faculty member in the Pathology department of UNC-Chapel Hill. I am a type one Diabetic, and belong to a family with a high incidence of high functioning autism. His answer was that not allowing those with inheritable affliction to reproduce would rob the gene pool of many trait that society appeared to cherish. He cited Van Gogh, and Beethoven. So I am 70 now and my grandchild is finishing high school next year. She will graduate with a year of college completed. Tough question.
You realize you are getting awfully close to eugenics aka NAZI doctrine, if you are in favor of this? I know that the idea was created by Dr. Francis Galton, but like Charlie Chaplin’s mustache, and the swastika, there are just some things that have SUCH a stench of Nazism now, that we just don’t go there anymore!
I suppose it COULD be tied to Nazism, but not always. The idea that if somebody's ethical code is to make sure people in general suffer the least, this idea may in fact be justified, if enforced fairly. Hitler himself you could argue may in fact may have had some form of genetic disability whether discovered or not, given that his mom died of cancer and his dad may have drank a lot of alcohol before his birth. This and other reasons shows Nazis as hypocritical and honestly, it seems to be fascists care more about themselves than anyone else. The Book Thief showed how many Nazis still had massive poverty even with Hitler in power so they were pretty self defeating, but I digress.
If you talk to somebody with dialysis or the like, it is in fact possible to find those among them who regret living because every moment they do, they are subject to horrible pain. I'd argue the problem here is 1) the idea of FORCING some sort of genetic analysis pre birth, which when it comes to eugenics and such, I do not ever trust any government to be fair in this sense and 2) The proper solutions are options for assisted suicide and more importantly, a much more robust system for ability to sue one's parents for being born when they KNOW they will likely suffer all throughout childhood and then likely the rest of their life.
I'd consider suing my parents 100%. I don't know if I'd demand monetary value, but it'd be more so to make a point, like that Indian guy did who ofc, was shamed to death unfairly by any media.
qz.com/.../
Strongly Disagree. How on earth is that going to be enforced? Issue everyone with an inheritable disability a personal FBI agent to force them at gunpoint to wear a condom every time they have sex? Or maybe round them all up and sterilize them by force? Even if the idea is ethically sound, there is no way to enforce it without gross violations of individual rights.
Think about how in china they limit the amount of girls parents can have because boys are more in demand. en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Female_infanticide_in_China
So that is a serious human rights violation but that is one way it could happen.
There also might be a day in the future where we can just alter or eliminate the genes that are responsible for these diseases but thats still a ways away.
I have a learning disabilities and dislike this qestion very much because. This one stupid thing and I don't even want to vote or all rubbish
. some learning disabilities people can have a genic disorders that will can pass on for further gention and some leaning disabity wome want to have kids but they can't some they leaning disabity get on the way. Just because have period doesn't mean we can have a child. If I wanted a child I ask one of my sister to get one of there eggs instead of myself genic disorders that is learning disabilities. If a person has austism it make not pass on then a person can have kos if they in a long term relationship or marriage to a person that want to have kids.
Women
It depends on the disability. My daughter is mentally disabled and after certain types of testing for living skills no she would not be able to marry, have children, etc. However she can take care of herself to a degree ✌️
I used to know a lady who had a similar situation with her daughter. Her daughter wasn't in a position to be able to handle ever having children. When her daughter turned 18 she actually had her tubes tied. It of course wasn't "forced" upon her. But there was a lot of legal paperwork involved that had to be signed by doctors, etc, since they normally don't tie tubes on an 18 year old.
Yes that's clearly understandable & yes surgeries of that manner aren't performed that often
No. Strongly disagree as a grand child of a man who had increasingly inheritable alzheimers. It didn't show up until his 70's how the hell are we supposed to stop that? Most people only develop cancer when they're past their 50's, how are we supposed to stop them? And not only cancer, but a big part of hereditary disabilities only show themselves when people are already past the age of having children
It's unrealistic and a moral gray area
I mean adoption exists. I kinda think it is really dumb to have a kid if you know they could grow up to die super young to some inheirted stuff. So kinda?
But there is stuff inherited which people can live there whole life with.
So depends what it would actaully do to the kid born. And again adoption exists.
Perfectly healthy people have disabled children every day. Just like disabled people have normal and healthy children everyday. And those people take care of their children just fine. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that no one else in my family has. My sister and I were also diagnosed with the same head issue. We have different dads and our mom does not have this illness. I swear... the questions on here man.
They should really have a great reflection, if they really want to put a kid through what they have gone through. If they want a kid can't they can adopt instead of keeping their flawed dna around. I don't believe in forced or legal restrictions on reproduction, at least on earth. If we go into space we might need to limit it.
You assume that the genetic code is a road map that allows reliable predictability. Epigenetic data show that expressed genome is affected by environment. Plus only traits are genetically linked not always expressed. You OK with sterilizing people because they Might be having children that might have a problem.
I think the only culture that made that a resounding yes answer ended at about 1945.
Voted undecided by accident, meant to click strongly disagree. It's near impossible to detect all possible serious inheritable disabilities one could pass on. This is also a means of telling people what to do and how to do it. Are you sure you're from America and not China OP?
As a conservative I believe that people deserve the right to decide for themselves, but I also believe that they should be responsible for the consequences of their decisions. That means that they would need to procure health care on their own or through employment.
Those two beliefs are joined together
My keyword in this question is: serious.
I would not want to burden my child/children with a severe disadvantage.
There's always an option for adoption.
I would not go as far as not to allow it (that's a totalitarian tendency), but to strongly discourage it in the interest of everyone can be justified.
That's not even how natural selection works. If people don't want to reproduce with them, then they shouldn't. But they should not be artificially prohibited from doing so.
One person's disability is often another's advantage, random genetic mutations are required to have advantages pop up. And humans are too ignorant about genetics to be thoughtfully directing every bit of gene expression right now (this would also ruin genetic diversity). being genetically prone to cancer for example, would also mean being genetically prone to rapid healing from injuries in many cases. And it may hold the key to limb regrowth.
This is going to rub people the wrong way but all I'm saying is there are a lot of children out there who need loving parents these people instead of conceiving could care for one of them and instead of sending labour and capital towards finding cures we could send it towards development and education
Hmm, well I have bipolar, adhd and an anxiety disorder, and I personally don't plan on having kids, 1. I don't want the stress, 2. I dont want to pass on mental illness. I've thought about this before, and not sure where I stand, on one hand if everyone with a mental illness were sterilized, or just chose to not have kids, mental illness could be almost eradicated, but on the other hand I feel that everyone deserves the natural right to have kids of their own, if that makes them happy.
Only one person in my family had ovarian cancer that was my grandmothers mother! All her daughters (now dead from old age) never got ovarian cancer and they all lived into their mid to late 90s. My grandma is 92 never got it either!
@yofuknutz we live to an old age in my family mom and dads side tbh
That's for the individual person and couple to decide. Who the fuck knows what the future holds. Maybe that condition will be as manageable as asthma with an inhaler or eye sight corrected by glasses that is a fundamental reality with children today.
You know unless the doctor tells you the condition can be inherited then your offspring is fine and WHO ARE YOU TO PLAY GOD SAYING PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES can't HAVE CHILDREN, I Have Dyslexia and mine are perfectly normal, You should be ashamed of yourself for asking this stupid question.
Holy shit its from the political compass test question. Its not my statement.
@charlyquinn_ I agree my mom has health issues and I am healthy!
I have some genetic-caused health issues (prefer not to go into) and so earlier in my 20s i'm very happy deciding even then that i don't want kids. Ever. Not even as a godparent. Nope no thank you. 😋😋😊
That depends on what they can bring to the genetic table. If a person has diabetes but an IQ over 130 then the second thing outweighs the first as a contribution to the gene pool.
Only in the sense if their disabilities mean they cannot take care of their children. Inheritability is a risk not a guarantee of passing it on. But only morally wrong, I don't mean they should be made infertile or something.
Good point.
Why should people be encouraged or allowed to willingly become strenuous burdens own society or should their children be?
I don't trust the government to enforce this but I actually strongly agree with that statement.
Why should we pass down shitty things *KNOWINGLY* to our children? That seems malicious.
Yeah, honestly
Unless you want to explain why them having children (and most likely causing their children to be in a lot of pain) is a good thing...
I mean severe mental disabilities got trump millions of votes so maybe I agree
Lol..
Depends on the person and the disability. Many can be mitigated or cured these days.
By the time most people develop cancer, they're already past the age of reproduction, anyway.
I understand the logic behind it, but it's morally messed up. Nobody should be able to dictate your right to reproduce.
Disagree.. Because "Who makes them, can keep them". It is everyones own choice and it is their responsibility, not yours.
I think you should have a choice. I chose to not reproduce because I am almost guaranteed to pass down my ASD.
You can't fault somebody for a disability. Look at Steven Hawking's, he had children while having ALS. He did fine for the most part.
Well if we stopped procreating because people have health disorders, there would not be any people left.
This is a personal decision among the individual, his/her family and the doctor (s).
I picked Disagree but I Strongly Disagree. That's communism that most with any amount of common sense don't want to live under.
Depends on what you mean by shouldn't, the choice should be voluntary, but the smart choice is checking out of the gene pool.
evolution works automatically. we do not have to do anything to help it along.
specially cause we tend to reflect our subjective opinions in those normative question, though nature is not normative. natural selection has no moral values. we do. so we can only do it wrong.
Strongly disagree. Every human should have the right to reproduce and at least leave their legacy through offsprings on earth.
Strongly disagree, because I'm not an ableist piece of shit.
i'm offended by this question
Cool...
Disagree
Why?
Everyone should have the right to have children
You have no grasp of statistics or of reproductive biology.
This is a political compass test question. Its not my statement that i made...
what exactly is a "political compass test question"?
You never heard of the political compass test? Its a series of questions to determine where on the political spectrum you fall: https://www.politicalcompass.org/
@still-alive I had not heard of it but It's interesting - thanks.
Nah--folks with that opinion can fuck RIGHT off.
sounds like you've been scarred by someone
It is a slippery slope and who gets to decide?
I disagree man. It's a slippery slope to go down.
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