Probably because Israel mass murders and commits terrorist acts against palestinians who are muslim, and hate muslims so they hate israel back. What makes it worse is Israel then plays the victim. According to the jewish people themselves they where kicked out of 80+ nations. If I was kicked out of 80+ bars, would it be reasonable to presume that it was entirely their fault or that maybe, just maybe I played a part in it?
Not saying violence against any group is ever acceptable, it isn't. Not saying that racism/discrimination is ever acceptable, it isn't, but at some point you need to realize that if your the only common denominator and this doesn't happen to this degree with any one else, then your probably the root of the problem. The good news is that also means your the solution.
Its like claiming that the middle eastern nations hate the US for no reason. Was 9/11 acceptable? Absolutely not, no terrorist act is. But is it reasonable to say that they hate us for absolutely no reason and we have done nothing but mind our own business and are just innocent victims? No, of course not that would be idiotic, we did things that screwed them over and that is why they are pissed at us. At some point you need to take responsibility for your actions and Israel simply refuses to do so which just makes the problems that much worse for them and every one else. Your not going to fix this by denying it.
Now as per usual, I anticipate having my comment removed because I dared speak the most obvious truth (because god forbid that we call out bad behavior if its for any group other then straight white males).
You keep amazing me with amazing insights and knowledge. Keep spreading the truth, brother!
@TruthBringer Thank you, I'm glad some one appreciates it.
The Jewish question? Might require a final solution... Joking my dude or dudet or trans thingie of your choice. Jews don't seem all that bad to me, but man a lot of people hate them, am I right? I'm right about that so not really asking. I would think it all starts with banking systems... humanity in general should never accept debt. The ones that do and can't manage it... they get pissed off and look at someone to blame. Just my Goy opinion.
The turkish people that hate jews are ignorant, anti-semite or they hate zionists. I personally dont have a problem with jews. I am sure there are many turkish people who dont hate jews. The current government and turkish media support arab world and so there are people who love arabs so much. I also dont understand it. By the way i live in austria and these turkish people would not love hitler if they knew how the nazis actually are. I am curious if they would still love hitler if they knew that mosques and muslim women get attacked by people who admit that they want hitler back in austria. One month ago a jewish woman on the train and two muslim women get attacked by nazis. I also want to say that as a former muslim i grew up with hate towards jews that was taught by scholars, parents etc. Many muslims who i know experienced the same. I can't generalize, of course. Anyway i am talking about my experience.
Here a pic of a mosque in germany that was attacked by nazis
What really? So jews killed jews?
I donāt think every Turk hates Jews. Itās not as black and white as that. There will be some Turks out there who will be antisemitic and the reason for bigotry usually boils down to one of two things: ignorance or pure malice. So the root cause of a Turkish person being antisemitic would be either because they are ignorant, or that they have such a strong genuine hatred for Jews.
That said, Turks are opposed to Israel and specifically Zionism and anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. But, sometimes anti-Zionism can turn into antisemitism sometimes, and that often comes from a place of ignorance or a real antisemite using anti-Zionism as a cover to excuse their bigotry. Itās important you donāt label someone who opposes Israel and Zionism as an antisemite, without knowing their reasoning because it isnāt antisemitic to oppose Israel or Zionism, by definition.
To say āTurks hate Jewsā however is such a sweeping and absurd generalization.
Meh, depends on the specifics of their anti-Zionism. By definition, Zionism is the right to self-determination of Jews. It does not incorporate a specific set of policies (such as settlements in West Bank or something like that).
It aināt difficult to argue that it is antisemitic to reject the right to self-determination of Jews if you only deny it in the case of Israel and Jews but are okay with other groups striving for an independent state.
In other words, would depend on whether it is antisemitic based on whether they are somewhat consistent across different ethnic groups.
With respect to them being anti-Israel for context, they tend to be in favour of active relations with Israel while opposing Israel in its policy with respect to Palestinians. It is also why Israel and Turkey were quite good allies until the war in 2010 in Gaza (and a raid a few years later).
That said, it obviously depends on the specific case at hand
āMeh, depends on the specifics of their anti-Zionismā
I know that, hence, I said: āItās important you donāt label someone who opposes Israel and Zionism as antisemitc, *without knowing their reasoning*, because it isnāt antisemitic to oppose Israel and Zionism, by definition. And itās not antisemitic to oppose Zionism a political ideology, and the state of Israel in its current form by definition.
Take the Kurds for example, many debate about whether the Kurds have the right to statehood, many support and oppose the idea of Kurdish statehood- itās by definition bigotry to oppose or support the idea of Kurdish statehood, not every ethnic or religious group necessarily gets a state. And itās not racism to have that discussion about a certain group having the right to state, it is possible that it could be, but itās not by definition.
I mean is it really that difficult to argue that anti-Zionism is not antisemitism? I donāt think so, and here is why. Firstly, donāt many Jewish and Israeli anti-Zionists exist? Ilan PappĆ©, Noam Chomsky, Avraham Burg, Yahav Erez? Are they antisemitic? I mean one could claim that is a simple cases of identity politics and that just because a number Jewish and Israeli people oppose Zionism, doesnāt mean that anti-Zionism doesnāt equate to antisemitism. Okay fair enough, well 35 Jewish and Israeli scholars, academics and historians of the Holocaust published an open letter in which they said: āMany victims of the Holocaust opposed Zionism, on the other hand many antisemites supported Zionism, it is nonsensical and inappropriate to identify anti-Zionism with antisemitism.ā Now these arenāt just some random Jewish people stating a baseless opinion, these are scholars, academics, historians of the Holocaust. Not to mention, the letter that they published also shows that many European antisemites supported and embraced the founder of Zionism Theodore Herzl because they were in favor of treating Jews as a foreign and separate nation in order to get them out of Europe. Not to mention the author of the Balfour declaration that was in favour of Zionism Balfour stated Jews were an āalien and hostile people.ā Additionally, Balfour also sponsored legislation to keep Jewish refugees out the UK. Edwin Montagu, the only Jewish member of the Cabinate at that time, opposed Zionism stating Zionism was quote him: "a mischievous political creedā so I donāt necessarily think itās that hard to argue that anti-Zionism is not antisemitism.
You insinuated that opposing Zionism rejects the right to self-determination if you deny the rights to self-determination to only Jews in the case but are okay with other groups striving for a state. But thatās not necessarily true, or always the case. For examples many Orthodox Jews would oppose the idea of a Jewish state for religious reasons in that they believe Jews should only have a state once their Messiah shows himself. Theyād be opposed to Jews having a state but they would possibly be fine with other groups having a state- thatās not necessarily antisemitism, as you and I both agree on it depends on the reasoning.
And many are opposed to Zionism because they believe it is a political ideology that has resulted in the oppression of the Palestinian people- thatās what I and many other people oppose, when it comes to opposing Israel not that the Jews have a religious and historical connection to the land of Palestine, but the oppression of the Palestinian people. And I have seen people use Zionism as a justification for illegal Israeli settlements, in that they claim that Jews have the right to self-determination and that the land of Palestine/Israel originally belonged to the Jews therefore the settlers are just reclaiming what is theirs which is an incredibly weak argument.
@SpiderManFan2002
Honest question for you:
If Guatemalans can settle in the U. S., why can Israelis not settle in the West Bank?
Just food for thought. Not trying to be offensive or anything.
Open to a respectful discussion.
@Jamie05rhs Are Guatemalans expelling innocent Americans from their homes leaving them nowhere else to go? And by settling in the US, are they creating settlements which according to the UN are breaking international law? Iām not exactly schooled on Guatemalans settling in the US, but if the answer to those questions is yes, then the answer they shouldnāt be settling there.
@Jason2121 Who me?
@Jason2121 Okay firstly heās not an idiot, so donāt call him that and show some respect. Secondly you assume heās an idiot based off the fact you assume heās Turkish or Arab? Thatās very credible.
Well, many of them are breaking the law by crossing the border illegally.
Only landlords can expel people from their homes. But if an American loses their job and get replaced by an illegal alien for lower wages, then that very American could very well potentially get evicted for failure to pay rent. And the alien could very well take their place. It's not out of the realm of possibility.
@Jamie05rhs I donāt know why you brought up Guatemalans, thatās a situation that I know nothing about and I havenāt exactly expressed any strong support or opposition for them.
Weāre talking about Israel breaking international law according to the UN, what I donāt understand is whenever such issues are raised sometimes people with pro-Israeli arguments often offer simple cases of āwhataboutismā and often insinuate or sometimes directly say that people with arguments in a favour of the Palestinians often single out Israel.
The facts are according to the UN Israeli settlements are illegal. Thatās what is wrong with Israelis settling in Palestine, in that they are evicting innocent Palestinians literally from their homes because they claim that Palestine is their homeland- now thatās a whole other discussion entirely, but imagine someone comes to your house and tells you that their ancestors lived there 2,000 years ago and they bring the police/law enforcement to evict you from your house? Do you think they would be justified in evicting you from your house.
Not to mention, in Sheikh Jarrah, pretty recently there was a video that was released of a Palestinian woman telling an Israeli settler that he is stealing her house. The settler responded: āIf I donāt steal it, somebody else is going to steal it.ā I mean not only did he admit to stealing, but thatās a pretty pathetic justification do you not think. Imagine a car thief tries stealing your car and when you ask him āwhy are you stealing my car?ā He responds, āif I donāt steal it, somebody else is going to steal it.ā Do you not think thatās a disgusting argument?
https://youtu.be/piIgkqPmI-w
Yeah sure, it does depend on the specific case with respect to anti-zionism.
With respect to scholars, it is also fairly easy to point towards e. g. the IHRA, which does suggest that delegitimizing the right of Self-determination by Jews in a state is antisemitic itself. And that definition by the IHRA is also supported by hundreds of academics, scholars and historians.
It aināt that difficult to find diverging opinions on this matter, even among scholars, academics and Jews in general.
At that point, it aināt difficult to argue that anti-Zionism often simply equates to antisemitism, though again it depends.
As you mention the orthodox people, the critical question is whether they oppose Zionism itself. It is a matter of who you ask. Some Orthodox say there should be a Jewish state when there is a Messiah but that this fits in with Zionism itself. After all, Zionism is also a more plural concept with various sub-forms of it. In contrast, other orthodox say that such a thing does not qualify as Zionism. As always among Jews, youāll never find a consensus there.
Lastly, since you mention the history, meh. I do definitely agree that plenty of people do justify settlements on the West Bank through Zionism itself. But if we look at the historical bargaining of the Zionist movement within the area, it has not really been a demand. For example, in neither the Peel solution, by the UN they demanded anything in the West Bank. More recently (like 15 years ago), Israeli right-wing governments (though everything is Zionist there) also agreed to remove all settlements in exchange for peace (rejected though).
The issue then is that opposing settlements does not inherently oppose Zionism. Clearly, lots of Zionists are against the settlements (the entirety of Meretz, for example).
@tartaarsaus By definition zionism is the the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. The problem with that was people where already living their and the Zionists didn't really care if some one else was living their, they decided that because in the bible they had a kingdom their that they would make it again and to hell with every one else (also why they tried to take territory that belonged to other nations, attacked the US in an attempted false flag attack (twice) and now are trying to wipe out Palestine to take it over for their new nation.). Its kind of like saying that their is nothing wrong with imperalism, that it just means a right to self determiniation, you can say it but its wrong, its the "right" to self determination and also the taking of other peoples land and the subjugation of those people. Not saying Israel doesn't deserve to exist, but ironically Israeli's do believe that palestine doesn't deserve to exist which has pissed off most muslim nations because they have attacked palestine, egypt, and syria but are protected from reprisal because Israel is allied with the US (again, strange because they attacked the US unprovoked on two separate occasions and harassed and detained US citizens on another). Its a lot more complicated then a simple right to self determination, you have the right to live, that doesn't mean you get to harvest my organs against my will to keep yourself alive.
Lmao no.
First of all, the early Zionists basically accepted very small parts of land in early deals (around the 1920s and 1930s). Letās not act like they were in for a massive landgrab, since that is simply historically inaccurate.
Secondly, most Israelis support the Oslo accords and therefore also self-governance by the Palestinians. Even before there was any self-governance of Palestinians, the Israelis already built decent (ish) ties with Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Turkey and other Muslim states.
I mean, the main wars between Israel and other states ceased after 1967, since Israel conquered Gaza, Sinai and West Bank. But what does that mean? It means that Muslim nations strongly held and governed territory that the Palestinians claim as part of a Palestinian state. These Muslim nations also gave no form of governance to the Palestinians, so clearly, they werenāt that important. And later, basically most major wars with Muslim nations ceased anyway.
Lastly, the push for a Palestinian state is formally led with the Palestinian Authority, which desire the 1967 borders (as formally agreed upon in the Oslo Accords that they recognize Israel).
Clearly, it means that basically all of Israel, which is the core of the state and within your definition Zionism, is not even remotely contested by the most relevant Palestinian leadership
@tartaarsaus Yes, actually this is precisely what is happening. They accepted a very small chunk of land (after making a deal with England in order to supress the rebellion of who would later become the palestinians). That doesn't mean they where content with it. Zionism is based upon the torah/old testament where god gave the jewish people their promised land. . . and told them in order to get it they would have to commit mass genocide of the people that lived their and drive every one out of the land so it could become Israeli. This is a fact.
@tartaarsaus This is why Israel is the only nation in the entire world to increase in size four fold from "self defense". Its why they have settlements, which is the illegal siezure of others property (you know, theft) and when those people resent the fact that they are being robbed and forced out of their homes by a bunch of zealots (fun fact, zealot is actually a reference to jewish extremists historically speaking, and its also applicable now to zionists and the jewish terrorists), at which point Israel uses that as an excuse to bomb and murder the palestinians and then steal the land. This is how they have kept growing in size despite those "humble beginings", because their goal is to drive out every one in the area, hence Palestinians stating that their can only be peace when Israel no longer exists because Israel is founded upon the idea that the entire region belongs to them and they will do what ever it takes to get it including but not limited to breaking over 400 peace treaties, knowingly stealing land that was not theirs, false flag attacks (provable), terrorism, using palestinian children as human shields (provable) etc. You don't get to say Israel supports a free palestine when they invade it regularly. Their is a reason why 80% of palestinians killed are killed in palestinian territories and 80% of Israeli's killed are killed in Palestinian terrirotries, its not because Palestine is the invader. Words stated do not superceed actions taken, they never have and never will.
So yeah, everything I stated is proven fact and their is no amount of denial that can alter reality. The problem is only that because they are jewish we are not allowed to call out their extremism, hate, and cruelty otherwise you get labeled as "antisemetic". I have no problem calling out islam for its cruelty and extremism but I also don't have an issue doing the same with judaism (or any group for that matter) because I only care about the facts, not an ideology.
@hellionthesagereborn Keep spreading the truth brother! tartaarsaus blcocked me because I managed to lift his skirt and debunk him many many times in the past. So he got tired because he couldn't keep up so he took the snowflake way out by blocking me lol
@TruthBringer Well he refused to respond to me, otherwise I would have started posting direct quotes about how Israel was formed (in the torah/old testament it quite clearly states that god commanded the Israelites to commit mass genocide and force out every one in the region and take what they had for themselves calling for the killing of men women and children. This is the basis of zionism and they function exactly the same way now as they did in the past, only this time they usually claim to be the victims in order to get away with abhorrent behavior).
Opinion
22Opinion
I don't like the turks but they're correct on this one tho
who actually likes jews to begin with?
Well. Hating Israel is not the same as hating the Jews.
You cannot prove that the soldier in the photo is a Turkish soldier. You seem too old to believe everything you see on social media.
Those who sympathize with the Arabs are the government and its supporters. Not the Turkish people.
And I'm almost sure you live in Turkey. Actually, you don't ask questions. You expect people to approve of your ideas. Instead of living here with this grudge, you should go to Israel, which you love so much.
Sorry, you are not convincing at all. You live here and you are just one of our enemies living within us. Like some Kurds.
I shared my opinion on some of your questions. You answered me in Turkish. Why did you remove them? I'm not idiot, but you are schizophrenic.
Moruk boÅ yapma o aÄzını da topla. O yorumları kaldırdıÄını ikimiz de biliyoruz.
Turks, Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, Lebanese, Egyptians all originated from the same region that they've all been fighting over for millennia! I mean they've been at odds for thousands of years... before the pyramids even.
The region is partly desertified, water is a precious resource, fertile land is limited, so sharing has never been a big thing for any one group with any other group. So there's all this infighting despite the fact that the peoples from these areas all eat the same foods and have similar traditions.
THere's no valid reason any one group hates another except prejudice. Can humans ride themselves of prejudice. It can only happen with concerted effort and until that becomes more important than all the eternal infighting, hatred will remain.
There is a cultural clash between Arabs and Jews especially over the territory of Jerusalem but it also has historic roots. Basically this is a fight for dominance and neither side intends to lose even if they have to turn into monsters in the process.
It has always been fashionable to hate Jews. Think about it. Blacks murder other blacks on a regular basis, muslims bomb and drive through people at random. Jews mind their own business and are STILL hated more than anyone. One day maybe someone will give me a valid reason as to why, but nobody ever has yet.
God loves both Arabs and Jews. God lives both Jews and Arabs.
Yes!šš¾
To be honest, I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be so all I will say is that there are cultures who are unwilling to let go of hateful issues that took place thousands of years ago, and will exploit said ancient issues just because they want to gain power.
Iām neither Turkish nor a Jew. Canāt really opine on something I have no clue of
They have been fighting for thousand of years! It's all they know!!
In Israel once you turn 16 I think it is, you are expected to join the military!!
This is something that has been happening for almost as long as Christianity has existed.
Hell, I want to say it's existed longer!!
Technically speaking, Israel and Turkey were pretty decent allies until 2010. After some things, such as a war and the Flotilla raid, Erdogan has gone a bit ballistic. But then again, Erdoganās public support is decreasing and the previously strong relations implies these countries arenāt that diametrically opposed
So what? A country that hates you wouldnāt be a strategic ally
(This will make sense in the end - I promise).
In our area after the COVID started killing production of soaps and shampoos from China (and sold in our Dollar Tree Store), apparently DT started importing soaps and shampoos from Turkey. The products are of poor, weak quality, and now there is a much more important reason to boycott these products and buy U. S. made- the Turks' increasing hostility towards Jews and Israel.
It's a Zionist inspired fallacy to think that hatred of Israel equates to hatred of all Jews.
Israel is a hateful, illigitimate state and people all around the world hate it for good reason. But anti-Zionism is NOT antisemitism.
Better than your Nazi propaganda
I love how you hide your negligence of rape and murder from Germans
Okay mate
@JessieBellll Seems like logical fallacies are your thing. Lovely how you immediately jump to ad hominems instead of head on debunking anything he said. But you know you're not intellectually capable in doing so, so you resort to ad hominems attacks because that's the best you could do. By all means keep making us laugh, sweetheart.
Strange. Turkey is Israel's strongest ally in the Muslim world, at least it used to be before Edorgan.
I bet you these are probably Kurds.
But virtually everyone hates Jews. They have the highest rate of ADHD and they destroy people financially.
No way! You're kidding
And I haven't met a single Turk who loves Arabs. Where are you getting your facts from?
I don't like them either to be honest, but Kurds, Gulf Arabs and North Africans are worse.
The Nationalist Turks especially are very stupid.
Lol. Don't tell THEM that. They don't like being called White, but they look NOTHING like Turkic people from Central Asia
Donāt fool with them people fight for your rights Israel is Godās chosen people
Aren't you guys killing poor INNOCENT people in your country.
They don't hate Jews or Arabs, they hate duplicitous and conniving people.
Israel has always been in God's light. Turkey hasn't since the Ottoman Empire
They don't hate Jews. They hat zionism and by extension Zionists and Israelis. Not all Israelis are practicing Jews and most Jews are not Israelis.
Yeah, Muslims in general have a societal hatred of Jews, at least since the UN gave you guys part of their land. Not your fault, by the way. But israel could be better at not killing Arab childrenā¦
Why do you kill innocents and children in your country?
Yeah, right. š
Nothing is more fake than Israel, buddy.
has nothing to do with the turks
and has everything to do with evangelical christianity. LOOK UP "The Prophecy"
I'm not Turkish nor Jewish so I don't know.
I'm sure not all Turks hate Jewish people. Turkey of 80 million people
You can't generalize
i do what i want i hate turks
Even the ones that don't hate you?
The ones that you see in these protests aren't educated anyway. Most educated people don't support these actions
I see the flags in their attachments, this is the responsibility of all Turks, you will answer for this
No, this is just a responsibility of a few people..
Anybody who hates other people is stupid, donāt worry about haters
I had no idea this was true
Stop this nonsense!
Love heals everything.
Islam... that's why.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
@jason2121"Palestinians live freely". Yeah and we live on the surface of a black hole. ANyone else likes to bring some fantasy?
Because they have a small dick?
Because Muhammad was poisoned by a Jew.
Muslims hate jews.
No, we donāt, not the vast majority of us anyway.
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