What does it mean when a UK parliament holds Joe Biden in contempt?

[Stoner710]

Like what’s the UK government going to do arrest Biden I would certainly welcome that but I don’t think they’re going to do that

[nightdrot]

Actually, the reference to "holding President Biden in contempt" was not a formal legal definition, but rather to a headline in a British daily newspaper. "The Daily Telegraph" if memory serves.

It was meant to capture the scathing response in the British Parliament, where a number of MP's - in what is a quite astonishing action by normal standards - condemned the very badly bungled withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan. The reaction from MP's was scathing, this made worse by the fact that it now appears that, notwithstanding that the response to 9/11 was the first time in history that the NATO treaty had formally been invoked - and thus why British, French and other European countries had a military presence in Afghanistan - President Biden apparently did not bother to inform the NATO allies of his actions beforehand.

This put European nationals in Afghanistan at grave risk, and all this was made yet still worse when British Prime Minister Boris Johnson put in a call to President Biden and did not get a response for 48 hours. The response coming only after it was revealed in the American press that President Biden had not spoken, in the midst of the crisis, to any other foreign leaders. Thus Biden appeared to respond not to a call from the leader of an allied power, but to domestic political factors.

While the decision to withdraw from Afghanistan was sensible - see also my reply to this question for my views: Do you think Biden is wrong for taking the troops out of Afghanistan? - it has been grotesquely bungled and the ramifications of that will have lasting damage. Not least among European and other allies who will now wonder if the United States can be relied upon or if, in a crisis, they will be left to their fate.

The unintended consequence of Mr. Biden's handling of this matter has made this the worst crisis for NATO since the alliance was formed in 1949. In a world of sovereign states where treaties get their validity not by force of law - because there is no enforcement agency above states in the international arena - but by the actions of those states and the trust put in those states, this has been a disaster of colossal proportions.

Thus the seething contempt, expressed with breathtaking openness if foreign capitals - for President Biden. This being even more ironic given that the President had argued against his predecessor by decrying what he viewed as Mr. Trump's unilateralism. Biden argued that as a man with nearly 50 years in government - including 8 years as Vice-President - he would better know how to handle international relations and military actions.

This episode has put the lie to that argument and while some of the media coverage of this has been hyperbolic, overall there can be no doubt that the withdrawal from Afghanistan has been very badly mismanaged. In terms of America's allies, their confidence has been shaken and, as the "contempt" remark indicates, their disdain is seething.

To say the least, Mr. Biden has managed to turn what was a sound policy judgment into an utter disaster. In the cold Machiavellian world of foreign and defense policy, the price for that will be steep. Mr. Biden will be lucky if "contempt" is the only consequence he - and the USA - pay for his staggering incompetence.

[Stoner710]

My option: America can be trusted as an Ally as long as we don’t have a Democratic as president, The republicans party understands way better on how to deal with foreign policy and economic policy. Democratic are alright when it comes to domestic issues.

Question: you said Biden would be lucky if contempt is the only consequence he faces. What would be the worst or next step in consequences?

[nightdrot]

To your first point, while I share your partisanship to some extent, you may recall that relations between the USA and its allies - with some exceptions like Israel - were not great during Mr. Trump's tenure. I would argue that while Mr. Trump's instincts were sound, his mode of expression often made it difficult for our allies to work with us.

Moreover, there were disputes over the Russia pipeline, defense spending, terrorism and - of less concern to me but it had repercussions - global warming, among other issues. So it is a bit of an oversimplification to boil down US foreign policy to D's and R's. (Besides, Churchill would have much preferred FDR to the policies any one of his then isolationist GOP opponents would have pursued.)

As to the consequences, it does not take much imagination. China has been pressuring Taiwan and Russia has been similarly sniffing at Ukraine's doorstep. If both are able to resolve the differences between themselves - and believe that the US is paralyzed - the results could be well nigh catastrophic. This is not even taking into account the reaction of our allies - they may now no longer trust the USA - and of regional players like Iran, North Korea and Cuba.

Bottom line, if your enemies and your allies perceive weakness, the odds improve that your enemies will strike and your allies will head for the exits. Americans like to pretend it is democracy vs. dictatorship, good guys vs bad guys. International affairs is never so simple.

[Stoner710]

That’s true Democratic are better on the climate change front with our allies, when it comes to military republicans are more trust worthy then Democratic. The international community didn’t like Trump approach to climate change.

Yea we pretty much know Taiwan is screwed China will take it over and the United States will watch, Joe Biden is definitely a week leader he ran on the campaign that he wasn’t Trump and won the United States didn’t like Trump Twitter and the way he spoke when it came to Covid wasn’t great. Like the idea that he told people to inject bleach (which is not what he meant but he wasn’t the best speaker when it came to medical issues). But he was stronger then Biden ever will be same with Obama bush and Clinton in my opinion this is the weakest president since James Buchanan and we know what happened after his presidency

[nightdrot]

Well, you are conflating a lot of things. Mr. Biden lacks a mandate - other than his implicit pledge not to be Donald Trump - because he ran on nothing other than not being Mr. Trump. However, that would not necessarily make him a weak President.

Certainly it would not strengthen his position, but it does not inherently weaken it. That said, the problem at the moment is not that Mr. Biden is a weak President. Rather it is that he is an incompetent one. The evacuation from Afghanistan being Exhibit A.

In fact, I find Mr. Biden not all that different from Mr. Trump. Both men lacked a specific agenda and mandate. However, whereas Mr. Trump tended to be bombastic, Mr. Biden tends to be peevish. Yet neither man walked in the tradition of FDR or Ronald Reagan. Both Trump and Biden are populists, appealing less to a specific agenda than to a sense of envy and resentment.

Thus did both men seek to withdraw the United States from Afghanistan. To be sure, there was - and I support - a strategic case to be made for that withdraw. However, neither man made it, preferring instead to suggest that war weariness was sufficient reason.

At any rate, at to Taiwan (and Ukraine) the United States may stand aside. However, the US is backed into a diplomatic corner - especially now after the Afghan debacle. If Taiwan is invaded the US may react, and doing so would put it in a tactical position not dissimilar to that Japan faced at the Battle of Midway Island in June 1942. Not a happy position to be in.

Indeed, if China and Russia can settle - or at least put to one side for a time - their own differences, as they are NOT natural allies, the West may be facing for the first time in its history an alliance that it cannot defeat. See also my response to this question: Would an invasion of Taiwan by China ultimately lead to the end of China or the CCP due to the response it would elicit from the USA and NATO? ↗

[Stoner710]

Yea it’s funny I’m not a fan of either Reagan or FDR they both had there good and bad moments, Reagan was a small government guide and allow the economy to grow FDR was a big government guy in and help the economy to fail but FDR was good in World War II where Reagan was good when it came to messaging against the U. S. S. R and caused there collapse. But neither one of them was an ideal president I became right leaning because of trump but neither of them have/had a strong mandate

Yea Russia and China have hated each other for a while, I doubt they will get along we may see a 3 way Cold War for power between the United States Russia and China

[nightdrot]

Well, as a space saver I will offer my answer to my views of Mr. Reagan and Mr. Trump here:

1) What is your opinion on Ronald Reagan as US President? ↗

2) Is Trump a good president? ↗

However, I would add that your suggestion that you "moved right" because of Mr. Trump is problematic. Mr. Trump is a populist, not a conservative. Indeed, unlike Reagan, he never bothered to even suggest that he would reduce the size and scope of government.

Though even that is problematic - hint: conservatives founded the welfare state. See also Bismarck and Disraeli. I suggest to you George F. Will's "Statecraft as Soulcraft." It will give you a clearer and more refined understanding of the nature of conservatism and its distinction from liberalism.

[hellionthesagereborn]

For what? Because we where the only thing holding afganistan together because the people their just didn't care enough to maintain their own society? What the fuck was the UK doing there? Where they funneling money into the nation? Where they sending their sons their to fight and die and maintain the peace their like the US was? They can go fuck themselves the fucking cowards.

Don't get me wrong, their are many things to hold Joe Biden in contempt for (its a long list of just the things we know about, god knows all the other shit we should hold him in contempt for that we don't), but this is not one of them. If the UK cares so much about this, they should go in and do something about it instead of having us make all the sacrifices (economically, socially, and most importantly physically with the lives of our children our family members etc.).

This is why I hate europeans (not all of them of course), because they bitch and whine about how evil we are, how we need to stop being the world police and then when we do, they are the first to bitch and moan about how we are evil and we should be the world police.

[Stoner710]

Yes the U. K France and Australia were also helping us in Afghanistan they’ve been helping us this entire time. Same with other member of nato but not as great a capacity as the United States France UK and Australia.

We taught the Afghan military how to fight in only 1 way they would fight but have U. S backed air support plus we never taught them how to fly the planes or how to preform maintenance on the planes themselves

[hellionthesagereborn]

Not really, at lowest estimates we had more then double (nearly triple) the number of soldiers that the UK had, and that is at its lowest fucking point. We have been their for over twenty fucking years and if they cared they would dedicate more troops and more money to it but they won't because they know we will always be their to take the brunt of everything for them so they can grand stand without ever having to do much in the way of work or sacrifice themselves.

No, the afganistan people wanted this. The taliban has taken over because they are funded and powered by the people. No different then ANTIFA, you can't blame anyone else. If they wanted freedom they should have fought harder, they didn't. Its not our god damn responsibility to fix every one elses nation, despite their best efforts to stop us from saving them, all while our own nation dies.

I hate Joe Biden and I hope their is a hell so he can burn in it, but this is not his fucking fault (except for leaving military equipment behind for the taliban to use, that is his fault), its not Trumps fault, its not America's fault, its the afgani people who created the taliban, who man the taliban, who fund the taliban, who arm the taliban, who house the taliban, who encourage the taliban and support them that are at fault, no one else.

[Stoner710]

Iran funded the Taliban Iran armed the Taliban Iran housed the Taliban and now we armed them because of joe Biden we are housing them because of joe Biden we are arming them because of joe Biden and now likelihood of us having to fund them aka bribe them to get our allies and citizens out.

Also it is the most powerful country in the world job to make sure chaos doesn’t occur throughout the world this includes Afghanistan, The Egyptians did it the Greeks did it the romans did the Spanish did the British did when they were the most powerful nations on earth now it the United States turn or do we no want to be the most powerful nation on earth? So we want the China to be? That’s he alternative. When America pulls out the rest of the world goes to hell didn’t we learn that when we saved the world from 2 world wars

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, the taliban was founded by Afganistan. They are manning the group. That doesn't mean that Iran isn't funding them, but the group originated in afganistan and is comprised of afgani people. I'm sorry, but you cannot claim we are responsible for every single person in the world forever, that is insane. TWENTY PLUS YEARS. If you cannot figure out how to be funcitonal at that point, i'm sorry but you deserve it. They could fight, they could have fought we trained them, we armed them, we built bases for them and they stripped these things and sold them for personal gain because america would always be their to take care of them.

Now if you want to blame biden for not evacutaing americans before the withdraw, if you want to blame him for not removing all of our military gear and weapons and vehicles fine, that is idiotically stupid on his part and he needs to be held accountable for that. But you don't get to enslave the US to other nations to be their military, to be their police, to be the ones to fund them and sacrifice for them indeffinitley which is what your suggesting. That is again, insane. We do not have to stay their for centuries just because they don't know how to fend for themselves.

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for our jobs, no. They did not police the world, they maintained their empires. This is not our empire. Also no its not our job. Your literally saying we need to sacrifice every thing and every one to make other peoples lives easier so they don't have to. That is stupid. If you want to debate this fine, but come up with something better then that because its a non argument. Its not our job why would it be our job? Is it our job to also run these countries? Pay taxes for them? I mean what else is our responsibility? Why is it our responsibility? What does that have to do with being the most powerful nation in the world and how does us ignoring our own problems, sending billions of dollars to every one else as our own nation dies, make us strong?

At this point, your only argument is that as we are the most powerful nation in the world, we need to conquer every one else. If that is what your saying fine, I disagree but fine, but otherwise what your saying has no logical consistency what so ever. We are not responsible for other peoples actions and never will be PERIOD. That is not an opinion, that is a fundamental fact. If they cannot police themselves, if they cannot figure out how to have a military and functional government after multiple decades of us funding them and training them and showing them how to run everything, then they are not going to fucking learn. This is not an opinion, this is a fact as proven by this discussion as it wouldn't be happening if it wasn't a fact.

So are you saying that we are obligated to conquer these nations, to rule over them or do you think we should allow for national autonomy as they are not our nation and thus how they run their nation and live their lives is up to them? Are you in support of tyranny and authoritarianism or are you in support of liberty and freedom? This is the fundamental argument and I will always support liberty and freedom, what your proposing is the opposite.

[TadCurious]

It's simply an expression of strong disapproval of the colossal incompetence of Biden and his administration regarding the manner in which the withdrawal from Afghanistan was and is being handled. The UK of course is part of the NATO coalition that was involved in Afghanistan.

[Kaneki05]

Just means they disagreed with what he he did or has done. Nothing more really lol.
Tbh we would find mostly any president from USA easy to disagree with and hold in contempt but we don't bother due to them been an ally.
Only reason this is different is just due to the problem been more external than internal and we had British troops in afghan too.

[jshm2]

Politically it means Americans are not going to get the level of cooperation they enjoyed before in other ongoing wars and operations.

The UK is really the only full ally the USA has that doesn't consider it a disabled cousin to do dirty work with.

[tartaarsaus]

In the practical sense, it means the British Parliament has passed a formal condemnation of the Biden withdrawal in Afghanistan.


In essence, British parliament says it is Biden who has fucked up extremely hard. This by it leading to a complete takeover of Afghanistan and abandoning Afghan soldiers, of which about 66k have died in this war.

[Stoner710]

Fair enough are there going to be any action the u. k will do against the United States? I doubt war but sanctions or cut trading ties and something. The United States really needs to suffer for this debacle in Afghanistan

[tartaarsaus]

Nope. The USA is by far the most important ally to the UK.

[Stoner710]

Fair enough so it’s pretty much all talk and no action. Sounds like of pointless to me, Biden knows he’s a one term president anyway and he’s likely to loose the house and senate in 2022, if the republicans have any balls they will do what the Democratic did to Trump. (I know your not a fan of Trump but and eye for and eye right)

[tartaarsaus]

Welcome to international relations. Very few countries ever impose sanctions on any country they usually have a good relationship with.

[Stoner710]

That’s true I think Joe Biden just wrecked all of our good international relations, I know the international community wasn’t a big fan of trump but I’m sure if they were to elect a new leader for us between trump and Biden they wish trump was back. The United States is an unreliable ally as long as a Democrat is in charge.

[EnglishEuropean]

The furore in the British Parliament was grandstanding, the one thing our government is still competent to do. Not just Biden but PM Boris Johnson was roundly criticized. Diplomacy is a lost art in the UK.

[anylolone]

It means he fucked up more than any other president before him when it comes to foreign relations with britain.

[Stoner710]

Honestly I hope he continue to fuck up more then any other president just to show that you can’t trust the United States when a democratic is in office

[anylolone]

I don't think the problem is him being DNC, bush was a massive fuck up as well.

Being establishment is the big deal here, not that there's such thing as non-establishment democrats. For years GOP was controlled infiltrated opposition.

[rcljr]

Largely symbolic in nature, they can’t summon him to appear in Parliament, they cannot fine him, it’s just basically confirming what we already know… biden is a 4 alarm fuck up.

[KimmyKimmy]

I don't know a lot about the law. What's more serious, being in contempt by the UK parliament, or removing that tag on the side of your couch?

[rcljr]

@KimmyKimmy , you will rot in prison if you take the tag off your mattress…

[KimmyKimmy]

Along with those people who trespassed on Jan 6.

[rcljr]

@KimmyKimmy , they’re already releasing most of them, the FBI has investigated and concluded there was no insurrection. Nazi Nancy pignosi is spitting her I’ll fitting dentures out I bet.

[KimmyKimmy]

The fake insurrection served it's purpose, so the Dems should just be happy with that. I wonder if Trump could sue over this?

[rcljr]

@KimmyKimmy , he’s got law suits in the works already

[KimmyKimmy]

Good, he was robbed.

[OddBeMe]

It’s a joke in UK Parliaments, so I doubt Joe will be in any trouble. Other than bring to light the issues.

[loveslongnails]

It means absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous]

Fuck the UK.

[Stoner710]

The UK is better then the United States as long and Biden is president, Even Harris would be better then joe at this point, Joe needs to resign

[Opinion Owner]

Nah, Joe is the best president we've had had since FDR. The Britons can go fuck themselves.

[Stoner710]

Ok if Joe Biden is the best president ever why did the equivalent of Saigon happen last week? Why are gas prices shooting through the roof? Why are we being forced to mask up again? Why are we spending more money then what has been created? Why do we have 1.2 million people crowding our southern boarder and testing positive for Covid and then being released into the interior of a country to infect America citizens? None of this would have happened under Obama or FDR. Even Franklin Pierce didn’t do this much damage and he pretty much caused the civil war. Pierce was the guy I would say was the worst president ever Joe Biden has now replaced him.

[Opinion Owner]

We shouldn't be there in Afghanistan for starters... DUMBO.

The was was illegal since day one. It was unwinnable, we're hated by 99% of the Afghan population, no strategic objectives, it was an expensive war... And let me remind you that you're one of those "small government" parrots, why do you wanna spend our taxpayer money with wars?

[Stoner710]

First off we were there because al-Qaeda attacks us remember 9/11? The goal was to destroy them the Taliban was fuck you so we kicked then out of power, and went after al-Qaeda we needed to set up another government that would cooperate with the United States. Or were we suppose to ignore 5,000 American being murdered by terrorist in Afghanistan Iraq was illegal Afghanistan wasn’t. Now In order to make sure the Taliban didn’t gain power again we needed a small force in Afghanistan otherwise the Taliban would rise up again and al-Qaeda would get a second chance to attack the United States. When the United States takes an isolationist foreign policy the world goes to hell we stepped away from Europe after ww1 had we not done that WW2 would never have happened, we tried stepping away again, the Korea and Vietnam happened. We step away again then gulf war, we step away again Bosnia and later 9/11 we live in a world where you have to be imperialist Americans don’t want that but we have no choice if we don’t it means ww3 with nuclear weapons it’s unfortunate but it’s reality

[Opinion Owner]

"First off we were there because al-Qaeda attacks us remember 9/11?"
Yeah, I remember. I also remember that all terrorists involved were Saudis who migrated to the US, not Afghans.

"When the United States takes an isolationist foreign policy the world goes to hell"
Oh, shut the fuck up neocon.

[rcljr]

You need to lay off the meth, coke and heroin.

[Lillie_xo]

do you guys need hugs? you seem like you need hugs. ༼つ ் ▽ ் ༽つ

[Stoner710]

Yea OK it was recruiting through out the world just like Isis remember the guy who preformed the Manchester bombing at the Ariana Grande concert was a British Isis member born in England. Al-Qaeda was hiding in the kush mountains in Afghanistan and the Taliban refused to give them up so we removed the Taliban. The Saudi help us fight both the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

And yes when the United state takes an isolationist Foreign policy in the world goes to hell remember the period between World War I and World War II we took an isolationist foreign policy and sat back and watch the rise of Hitler, it’s either we’re protesting the world form tyranny or no one does if it’s really that simple

[Opinion Owner]

"And yes when the United state takes an isolationist Foreign policy in the world goes to hell"

You're really dumb and gullible if you really believe this shite because it's not true, it's just an excuse that politicians paid by the military industrial lobby use to spend the taxpayer money with their products (arms), to expand the US power across the world and to steal other people's resources.

It was never about peace, Mr. Small Government.

[rcljr]

Lay off the pcp laced meth

[Opinion Owner]

@rcljr Go change your diapers and buzz off grandpa.

[Opinion Owner]

@Lillie_xo You're funny. 😉😂

[Lillie_xo]

ty opinion owner, i just like hugs

[rcljr]

Lol, you’re thinking of biden.

[Opinion Owner]

@Lillie_xo Have a nice Sunday! 🤗