Chivalry in the modern sense, is about offering a helping hand to women, in the original sense, in respect for them: opening a car door or a door into a building.
But true chivalry is like agape: You help anyone who you see struggling, or who is older or who is handicapped.
I open doors for men who have packages and no extra hands. It is kind. They are invariably surprized. I find this sad! If I've had doors held open for me, why can't I give back!
THIS is what chivalry is all about. Kindness when it is needed. Women do not need to be put on a pedastal and men be ignored. We all need to be helped and held up at various times in our work and ordinary lives. We all need to be respected and thought highly of because each of us needs to be celebrated as miracles! Our lives a valuable. People love us. But even strangers need some recognition of the fact that they are one-time events on this world.
That's what chivalry is about. Respect, help and love shown to all of us at one time or another.
Chivalry is inherently sexist. That doesn't necessarily make it harmful or bad, and I don't really see it as a problem requiring attention.
I’m curious. I would think this way myself but the status quo has changed. What was expected of men is still expected but what was expected of women is now considered by many to be controlling.
Considering this is it not time to rethink such policies or do we continue to desperately hold onto the traditional ways and hope our ways prevail?
Gender roles are indeed in a state of flux nowadays. I do think if we want things to be more equal, both sides need to change. Too many people want to put the onus of change on others without taking a look at themselves in the mirror. And honestly, I think gender roles should be decided by each couple on a case-by-case basis, in whatever way they both believe is fair and beneficial. Some couples like traditional gender roles, some like equity, and I don't necessarily think there's one correct way for two people to have a relationship.
On a bigger scale, I've talked with a lot of male friends who make it clear that men feel unwanted, like their expected role in society no longer exists. Everyone tells them what not to do, but almost nobody tells them what their place in the world should be moving forward. And considering you guys commit suicide almost 4 times as often as women in the US, I think that bears serious consideration.
I agree that arranging roles beforehand on a case by case basis is best however with so many women wanting to abandon the original roles it’s putting a strain on the family… At what point do we consider the importance of our place in society to be of greater value then our rights and selfish desires?
Although I do need to correct your suicide comment. Women commit suicide more often but men succeed more often due to the methods used. Women tend to cut or drug while men go bang.
I do agree with the fact our place in this world was stolen from us. Now men are struggling to find a new place and look what happens. Bunch of weak men and women running around committing themselves to debauchery. Society was better before women started voting and working… correlation versus causation I know but… giving women sexual freedom was a mistake for sure. They complained about the men sleeping around then first chance they did the same thing.
I don’t think we can be equals. Equally important in the grand scheme sure but not equals. Hierarchies are important in western culture. There’s always gonna be someone at the bottom. The pyramid don’t just float. Then again I can only say that because the women in my life wouldn’t be treated badly but I suppose some asshole somewhere is the reason we have to give people rights…
But the expectation makes it sexist. For instance if we’re not chivalrous women will look down on us as though we’re not real men. Therefore it IS sexist.
Ehhh... seems education has slipped and people don't understand the meanings of words anymore. The word "chivalry" in it's modern context is simply "courtesy".
Any human, unless they are disabled, who cannot demonstrate basic courtesy ; doesn't really deserve to be called a human.
Hence it's laughable for anyone to be trying the "sexist" or "misandrist" angle when it comes to chivalry.
Sure, people can be shitty, and have ulterior motives for doing something. But that would be "mendacious" not "chivalry". Even if you mistook it for the latter.
I’m not gonna argue definitions with you as I already provided a definition below. What you refer to as the “modern context” is really just a part of the original definition… the “modern context” don’t require women to step up and defend the people weaker then themselves… that’s why when that woman was raped in the train only the men were called out for not helping… sexist like I said.
It is possible for an institution to be sexist without that being a bad thing. Cue almost everyone who reads this having their head explode. Was putting women and children in the liferafts on the titanic sexist? You bet your backside it was! For the continuation of the species though it was the correct thing to do. Human civilization is built on male sacrifice for the protection and prosperity of females. That’s just the way it is. Gotta love that male privilege, right?
Is anything returned for our chivalry? I think that determines if something is sexist.
Sometimes yes, but increasingly no. As some others have pointed out it can completely backfire. Why it would is anyone’s guess. I will never understand why a woman would reject something that is to their advantage.
Thanks for MHO
You didn’t just put it in a good or bad box and assume it should or shouldn’t be done. You recognized it as a necessary evil. Real thought was put into your answer thanks.
Opinion
28Opinion
u You need to define the term "sexist." Like the word "racist," it gets misused quite often. . . and it means different things to different people.
Agree there but this time I mean it in the full meaning of the word. One sided in favor of a single sex.
People are driven by natural instincts, that's hard-coded within. The so called traditional old conservative values and roles were closer to those natural instincts. On average men are physically stronger, more aggressive, like to compete, territorial, like to control, more pragmatic, less emotional, like to build stuff etc. Women on average are more empathetic, caring, patient, dextrous, can endure things men can't, esthetic, better communicators, etc. I for sure have missed a lot, so don't judge me.
Nevertheless the so called old roles that some people find oppressing were just closer to our nature and by old roles I don't mean thousand of years ago, women being property, slavery, etc, no , not that period and enough with this victimhood. Nowadays we're trying to change that but this somehow creates an unhealthy distance between our new roles and our nature. That's why many people are unhappy even though they have abundance of materialistic stuff. Girls acting more menly, more aggressively and wanting to be mothers is not in their top 50 of priorities, and men acting girlish and feminine and wanting to be fathers and take responsibility is not in their agenda, they want to be teens all their life. Sure it's cool for some and interesting, I know that many people like this new trend simply because it's new, different, interesting and trendy but they don't realize what impact this could have long term.
Depends entirely on the context. Women aren't dumb. Many guys think nice gestures should receive some reward in return. A phone number. A date. In this context, the mans motivations are not entirely altruistic- they are self serving and thus makes him the opposite of a gentleman. Its sexist, because there's an expectation to trade for services rendered.
A gentleman is someone who does it because his intention is noble. He doesn't have an objective to court the womans interest. She may appreciate the gesture. She may not. But he doesn't care because he operates at a higher plane of self consciousness.
I just do things because it feels like the right thing to do. That’s all
Yes, the whole point of chivalry is to treat women like they are more fragile. It is women who wanted this, they demanded it after a yound lady in the 13th or 14th made a written plea because she was appalled at how some knights treated women. Well the knights answered in kind and from there chivalry grew into what it was until the 70's-80's and has only gone down since because some women thought feminism was a good thing. Now women whine and whinge about how men are today, completly dismissing what the women before them did to make it so.
As per usual, the greatest source of problems for women, is other women.
No! Because in the old days a man only did that for a lady. Not all women are ladies. In fact, the vast majority are not today. A man would be a fool to behave in a traditional with women who don't behave as a traditional lady.
But even if I said, "yes" it doesn't matter because feminists have abused the term "sexist". They will call something sexist if it they don't like it but if they behave in a way based on you being a man that you don't like they'll never call it "sexist". So who cares what they think.
Here's the deal.
You are expected to MAKE BELIEVE things like paying for dates and being chivalrous are sexist so the lunatic Democrat woke mob doesn't attack you.
But good luck finding a girl worth being with you actually BEHAVE that way. Women are all for "independence" until it comes to paying for stuff and being pampered. That comes from NATURE and NATURE beats this loony woke mental illness.
So make believe things are one way so you won't trigger the woke loonies but actually behave according to your natural instincts if you want the romance.
A lot of people don't actually realize what real chivalry is. The chivalry most people think of is the one they see in movies.
But the real chivalry actually had very little to do with women if anything. It was a code of conduct regarding how to act in daily life, politics, war, religion and government.
It was esesstionally created to keep knights in check and in line. Because it stemmed from an era were routine military violence with massive civilian causalities was a thing.
So no it's not sexist.
I feel like chivalry is acknowledging that one sex is
1) Physically weaker than the other
2) Worthy of being pursued.
It places women as something valuable and precious, worth preserving and appreciating. So it is a double edged coin.
It seems like half like part 2 without part 1. And half accept both.
But no, I guess I don't consider chivalry sexist. Because sexist would imply one sex is better than the other. This is a way for on sex to value and honor another.
But it’s not returned equally is it?
Our differences compliment eachothe
I very much like this comment. The way you describe it is good. Women are physically weaker though there’s no mistaking that. Though counterargument Ide say women are stronger emotionally. Better empathy, better pain management… women excel at the mind while men excel at the body… nobody can go psycho quite like a woman lol!
I don’t think women are taught to embrace their strength though. I think women are pushed to reach for mens strength and if they can’t reach it it’s somehow mens fault.
Women lack empathy for men on such a scale it’s becoming a big deal that men arnt pursuing them anymore.
Let me confirm. You think it’s not sexist because you think it’s how men value women… so how do women value men? Not necessarily you in particular but women as a whole? Do you think women online value men different then you and the women in your family or life?
I like the way you said it and agree with your perception of it but if women arnt giving anything in return for it then what’s the point of doing it?
Chivalry is sexist when it only applies to women, from men. That's implying men have to help women and women need men's help. But if it applied to everyone, from everyone, as a general practice then it would not be sexist. It's not sexist to be nice or helpful or anything like that. It's sexist to expect all men to do it because they're men, or expect all women to need it because they're women. So just don't do that ig
Here's the solution. Ask if women or ANYONE wants special treatment from you before doing it, eg, on a first date; "do you want me to pay all the time?"
I hate special treatment, but it varies. That's why you should always ask.
I expect that will go over as well as expecting a woman to get wet over asking if she wants to have sex or getting written consent for every act…
You got a better idea? I'm all out of ideas how not to offend anyone. 😕
I don’t actually. That’s why I think a standards best and if their unhappy with it they can let their date know it’s offensive and to lay off.. it shouldn’t be mens job to walk on egg shells to avoid offending women.
I suppose you're right.
There’s a saying I like can’t remember who said it… In order for there to be discussion you must be willing to offend and be offended.
Hey, that's actually pretty good
Personally I want it though because it’s very romantic and besides I’m very old fashioned and I too follow the gender roles assigned to women (femininity). Chivalry is now a masculine trait and I love myself a masculine man.
Yes I agree with the people who said it’s sexist on the comments it is sexist but a lot of things can be seen as sexist, especially in this modern society we are living in as long as you and your partner are comfortable and happy to perform the actions that are considered to be “sexist” then all is good! But if you’re not happy and comfortable with those things then don’t do them and don’t judge the people who happily do them either just focus on thyself.
Thanks for the thought you put into it.
@VanillaSalt it's a pleasure, great question btw😊
I think that it's silly to expect it nowadays. It depends on your date. I had a girlfriend who opened doors and offered an arm to escort me, and I loved it. I also had a guy who wouldn't let me sit in the front seat or speak to the server, thinking he was treating me like a princess. My current partner actually asks and reads me, and knows I enjoy occasional little things, like an offered jacket, but also knows I'm a whole capable person with the ability to pull out a chair myself.
I guess I didn't answer directly. To me, chivalry is not about gender anymore, but a set of "expected polites." I'm teasingly called a hypocrite for being an equalist and feminist who still melts for some chivalry. I guess the sexism comes in when it is used as a form of control or in expectation of a "service," and whether or not the chivalrous acts would be reciprocated.
The issue is when compare perception to intention.
Also a bigger issue is… some women like and expect it while others fine it offensive. Getting that wrong can end up with you arrested as a man.
Ignore what you believe for a moment. Chivalry is expected of men but do you think it’s honestly expected if women? So they offer ANYTHING in return for chivalry? It’s a one sided expectation so in my eyes is sexist. To decide if it’s just an a typical difference between the sexes like pregnancy or a downright double standards we need to ask… what’s offered in return for our chivalry. If nothing they it’s an unfair double standard that’s unacceptable. If something of values given in return for that chivalry then it’s just an a-typical difference that’s just going to happen.
Chivalry is only sexist when people do not want women respected. Women, and the protection of them have always been at the core of civilization. Look at any culture that doesn't support that, like Islam.
That’s an unfair example. They protect women in their own way. You may not agree with how they do it but you shouldn’t act superior just cause you disagree.
Putting pressure on society to police itself is in itself a way to protect people. For example lying isn’t against the law and yet as a society we look down on it. They may take it to the extreme but the idea of honor killings is to ensure the honor of the family name which is still important in some societies.
Besides honor killing are exactly what they sound like. Killing to preserve honor. Chivalry was started because of mens honor. The idea that constitutes honor may differ but it’s the same principal.
No it's not sexist
https://www. history. com/news/chivalry-knights-middle-ages
If you want to view it that way than yes you can, though honestly it's not due to the intention of what is presumed.
I think chivalry in general is just the proper way to live. I don’t just lend a helping hand to women I’m attracted to, I lend it to anybody that needs it.
Regardless of whether they are my friend, regardless of whether we’re mutual enemies, regardless of whether I have anything to gain from them.
I don’t live just to serve myself and I think that’s really what its all about
There is a lot of rationalizing going on about chivalry these days. Women like to say it's just being polite, and that both men and women should do it, but let's be honest here... it's about women wanting men to treat them in certain traditional ways. But of course they can't actually say that because it makes them hypocrites. Rationalizing helps them feel better about the fact that they want certain traditional gender roles to continue but not others. It's basically a lie.
Only idiots would think that.
Problem is, we got a LOOOOOOOOOT of idiots in the world, nowadays!
No, but the saying, "chivalry is dead" is sexist and kind of a slap in the face to real knights, dontcha think 🤔 😂
Seriously tho, that saying is sexist.
Chivalry is always sexist. That doesn’t change just because some people appreciate the benefits of sexism.
How I act towards others is based on my own standards.
Because I want to show upfront what they can expect from the, and if that will fit their world view.
Moderate chivalry is good... Treating someone like they're always handicapped is not... It's always about balance
So if I call a black man a ginger once it’s okay but twice I’m racist?
Lol what... That's what you got from what I said? Lol
No I understood you completely. However by the same argument you turn something great into a terrible crime by overdoing it. Furthermore everyone draws their lines at different points. It can be easy to cross a line from chivalry into sexism by your argument.
So again… Is chivalry sexist.
Not it's not... And from experience I think women really like it.. It's like you said... It can be easy to cross a line from chivalry into sexism
Of course women like chivalry it’s solely meant to benefit them… tf you smoking.
Considering chivalry only benefits women and has no benefit for men does that make it sexist or not?
What are you talking about? Chivalry is stuff men do targeted at women... so in that situation there's a giver and there's a receiver... how is that related to sexism against men.. Dude you're all over the place
Do women expect chivalry?
Not all of them
Ok some do. Now… is chivalry expected of women?
No need to... Women are naturally givers and nurturing
At one point perhaps they were. And you say that with what sound like a “women just are and men have to be told” attitude.
There are expectations of men that are not reciprocated by women. I wanted to know if people think this fact is sexist. Apparently you don’t because of separate expectations men have for women. That’s fine.
Well I'm not taking someone's side or " defending " women... And yeah we can agree that modern women have so many problems... I'm just being logical and realistic that's all... And for my personal expectations... They're definitely high because I think a man and a woman should spoil each other... I personally don't even notice girls unless she's treating me with some level of admiration.. " chivalry " as you might say
I appreciate your honest answer.
Anytime 👍
No, it bloody well is not! Chivalry has been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years! No degenerate wokies can stop that.
Simples...
This wasn’t the question ya Brit lol.
Look at a few of the responses and you’ll understand it is sexist but that’s arguably alright.
Many women still want all the benefits of chivalry.
It is sexist towards men. Chivalry degrades men to the role of slaves/servants.
I don’t think it goes that far. I think it’s more like an unfair expectation considering nothings offered in return.
If you think chivalry is sexist then you are doing it wrong.
Chivalry is not sexist. Courting was only limited to Nobles during the middle ages.
Today, Chivalry is a trademark of a gentleman.
Yes, sexism is to treat one sex different from another. Being chivalrous in the commom tongue is about treating women with additional respect.
Now, the question is.. do we care?
O my bad, I was too fast. I thought it was another 'does it exist' question
well not very men out there have the title of a knight and back then society was way different.
I've yet to meet anyone who found chivalry sexist and not flattering. Note, I'm chivalrous to everyone irrespective of gender.
Costs nothing to be Nice. Essentially what chivalry is
Chivalry is not women's. It's how we act with everyone, not just them.
Can you give us a definition of "chivalry"?
Mens deference to women. Holding doors, pulling out chairs, paying for the first date, women and children first in an emergency, etc…
Basically any expectation that is uniquely expected of men by women but not reversed.
I believe in the emergency management aspects of chivalry.
I do not believe in the dating aspects of chivalry.
And yes, it's all sexist. But that's by design. That's kind of the point.
lol I agree. It is the point. And it is sexist. And it’s not wrong either as long as both sides have expectations their meeting.
No. More like unneeded in this modern era
Dude wtf?
@WhiteBoyChill the “Don’t Need No Man” movement has spoken.
It’s never been needed just wanted. Preferred. Like respect. And like respect I think it should be earned rather than expected.
@VanillaSalt Amen brother
Def. not
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