Is Hamas achieving it's goals?

[lightbulb27]

It sure looks like they are...

They never intended to "out military" Israel, kick them out and take over. not dooable. Change world order... that's possible.

When your NATO allies start seeing it's impossible to have a just world with American in it... ya got big troubles...

It seems to me... Israel is losing the public relations war.

Yes, and Israel cannot win

Yes, but Israel can win if they change

No, they aren't losing

[nightdrot]

The remarks by the President of Turkey are not that surprising - especially given that Turkey is a predominantly Muslim nation. However, as it bears on the question of HAMAS achieving its' goals, everyone will make noise about the Palestinian cause but please note that no one - save Iran (more about which, anon) - is lifting a finger to aid HAMAS.

In terms of the Turks, they often talk a good game but note that they have made no effort - and will make no effort - to leave NATO. Posturing is a way to sate a sense of self-satisfaction without putting more immediate vital interests at risk.

In that connection, note that a number of NATO allies are asking for a cease-fire, but this is less because of sympathy for HAMAS or the Palestinian cause. Rather, it is because the NATO allies do not wish to see the USA distracted from what Europeans generally see as a more critical issue - namely Ukraine.

Indeed, as a general rule, no one will lift a finger for HAMAS or indeed really the Palestinian cause. For the states of Europe and the Far East, they have bigger fish to fry. For the Arab states, although their populations remain somewhat discontented, after nearly 60 years of conflict, most are seeking a deal with Israel or were moving in that direction - see also the Abraham Accords.

The only partial exception to this is Iran, which is supporting the Palestinian cause not so much for its' own sake, but to further Iran's influence in the Muslim world. Yet even this objective will be hamstrung given that Iran is Persian and Shiite while the Palestinians are Arab and Sunni. Thus any alliance will be limited in scope.

Bottom line is that, other than gaining some attention among Western publics, it is unlikely that HAMAS will be able to achieve its' goals of Palestinian statehood. As to objectives short of that, it is a recipe for stalemate and bloodshed for Palestinians and not much else.

[exitseven]

Israel is winning. Who really gives a shit about public relations? Do you think Putin gives a shit about public relations? You cannot negotiate with terrorists. The only reason that it looks like they are not winning the PR war is because liberals are supporting the terrorists and they control the fake new media. There is plenty of support for the State of Israel. Israel needs to stick with the plan. Sometimes to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs. The public as usual will forget all about this an a day or two.

[lightbulb27]

a lot can be lost on public relations.. vietnam? it's not a stretch to create an anti-Christ out of this. count ourselves lucky if we (USA) doesn't pay the price in lost ship and crews or down the road on homeland.

www.politico.com/.../israel-civilians-gaza-00129762

[exitseven]

Unfortunately our military has lost its way. Gone are the days where the objective in a war was to win Now it is to be politically correct and to make the defense contractors billions of dollars.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[FreyaRed]

When their goal was to begin a kinetic conflict with much stronger opponent while depopulating their supporter base and losing their land to an occupant, then was Hamas successful.
Israel has no political goals, they just want get rid of Palestinians and settle Jews in Gaza. I don't think in 5 or 10 years someone will remember civilians who died in this conflict and toothless dogs like Erdogan who bark loud will bark about something else

[OldBlue]

Israel should have cut the head off the name snake, years ago.

[Lliam]

Hamas is achieving Israel's goals. That's why Israel supported the election of Hamas in Gaza in the first place. It needed an excuse to eliminate Palestinians from Gaza and take over the entire region, just like it did to the rest of Palestine. It had to prevent a two state solution.

Israel's brutality is backfiring, though. But it thinks it can get away with anything, just as it has in the past. It can constantly play the "Antisemite" trump card and the claim "We are only defending ourselves". And it has the American and British colonial powers to back it up.

We'll see what happens this time. I hope the entire word turns against Israel, but it may be too late for millions of innocent Palestinians.

[DJB72]

If Israeli objectives were to eliminate all Palestinians they'd just bomb the crap out of Gaza and the West Bank.

They don't.

Arab objectives since Israel was formed from the British Empire in 1947 has been the elimination of the state of Israel. And the Arab world in general sided with the Axis powers in the 1930s.

If Hamas has the objective of "suicide by IDF" then they may be on their way...

[AngryCarl2]

If the goal of Hamas is terror and destruction they are doing just fine, with Israel's help.

[lightbulb27]

probably a minor goal... if they die martyr, they go to heaven... it's a great deal vs what they cannot accept.

[ODC2112]

The object of hamas is play the role of victim, in a society based on cry and fuck, victim tend to win in long term.