Agree or disagree: abortion is neither a women’s rights issue nor a men’s rights issue, it’s a human rights issue?

Question

Ramaswamy explained why men also deserve a voice in speaking against abortion -

nightdrot · Accepted Answer

At the most elemental level, it is a human rights issue.

As I have written elsewhere, the British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.

A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.

We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)

Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.

This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.

Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.

Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.

Thus it must be, at an irreducible level, a human rights issue as it has profound implication for human society generally.

genericname85 · Accepted Answer

yup. that's why i hate the "my bod my choice" argument. what about the babies body and it's choice? also why is it ok for a woman to murder a mans child?

wiltingrosepetal · Accepted Answer

Phrase it however you please. In some situations it infringes on women's rights- forcing a person to carry a growing child inside their body that they don't want is very inhumane. And in some situations, it's an issue with men's rights. Forcing a person to financially support a child they didn't want, or taking away the child they actually wanted, is just as inhumane.

But saying the entire topic goes against human rights feels a little extreme. It's an easy word to describe a complex situation

Flower7 · Accepted Answer

Yes because the unborn child is affected much more than either the woman or the man.

loveslongnails · Answer

Rama smarmy is a two-faced liar. Nothing he says can be trusted. That said:

The same men who want to control abortions are the ones who now openly admit "we don't have enough service workers". They're the same men who vote against funding pre and post-natal care, expanding Medicaid for the poor in their states, passing legislation to help single moms and/or poor families. They're the same men who will groom, indoctrinate, subjugate any child for their own purposes, invoking God's name while they do it. They are the same men who will create wars and think nothing of sending those "innocent children" to die in them. They're birthers, not protectors.

These are the men who pass laws that forbid abortions for ANY reason, EVEN IF the fetus is not viable and has NO chance to survive but carrying it will most certainly injure or kill the mother. They will tell you "we've allowed for exceptions", but every doctor in every state knows they'd be prosecuted for giving one unless the mother was inches away from death, and even THEN they'd have to defend the decision.

The vast majority of women who get pregnant WANT a healthy baby. Women do NOT use abortion as birth control, that's always been an Evangelical/Conservative lie directed mainly at poor black women.

Deciding on an abortion is a heart-wrenching, life altering decision - except when your doctor tells you the fetus will have no brain, kidneys, or lungs and will rot inside of you and you'll die if we don't abort it now. That should be a given, but not in a red state.

I can easily make an argument that avoids all science, is indeed "religion based", but won't appease all Christians either. I can say the fetus isn't "alive" until it gets a soul; it's just a developing shell and nothing more. I can say that ensoulment doesn't take place until week "whatever", because that's what my God told me! My God also told me women aren't supposed to die because a rotting fetus with no chance of survival is legislated to remain in their body. How does THAT sound for all you evangelicals?

My point is simple; it's not about saving lives or protecting the unborn, any more that going after drag queens or LGBTQ's has anything to do with stopping the sexual abuse of children. We all know where that comes from primarily, don't we pastors, family members, and red state legislators?

Reported sex crimes involving children in the USA 2023

Soteris · Answer

His arguments are stupid. First of all, what happened to privacy and the government getting into our lives? Paternity testing is literally the government taking your DNA and saving it in their database and considering this is aimed at testing children, this would happen to you at your birth when you have no say in the matter.

Secondly, "responsible intercourse" is something that the right wing has been banging on about since literally forever. They have always pushed the idea of abstinence and such nonsense which has been proven not to work since it contradicts human nature. Sexual education would help, as would access to affordable birth control such as condoms but those are things Republicans have opposed consistently.

Thirdly, this is a straw-man argument. The basis on which the argument for abortion is made is human rights, more specifically the right to the integrity of your own body. No one but yourself should have the right to perform or authorize medical interventions on your body unless you are unable to agree (such as unconscious) and its a medical emergency.

That means that the only ones who can have a say in abortions are women since it involves their bodies. If men got pregnant then they would have the say over their bodies too. In other words, it was never about womens rights, it was ALWAYS about human rights. Going beyond this is explicitly giving men a special right based on their gender which makes it a "mens rights" issue and not a "human right".

I am so sick and tired of Republicans refusing to understand the basics on this topic. I know they are intentionally being stupid so that they can continue making these brain-dead arguments but the fact that they are doing this maliciously does not make it any less irritating to have to repeat myself.

strateguy632 · Answer

if we stop ignoring biology, (liberals call people fascist, if they are ignoring the science, from the scientists who the liberal prefers), unfortunately for pro-choice, god made the development of the BRAIN the FIRST system, in picture.

Agree or disagree: abortion is neither a women’s rights issue nor a men’s rights issue, it’s a human rights issue?

this is no longer "controlled by mother brain" the "fetus own human brain" is active a separate human life. we must protect this human life from the cruel people who want to kill it and support abortion after 8 eight weeks.

MsBell2018 · Answer

While I agree a woman has a right to her body, I feel once she becomes pregnant, whomever the father is has just as much say so about the baby as she does because it's half his child
The woman is the carrier & grower. I feel anything done to or with the child should be discussed between both parents & agreeable decision made.

Notherndude84 · Answer

The Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade removing access to abortion for huge numbers of American women. In America women today have fewer rights than their mothers. Women in my view should always have control over their bodies. They should be able to date, marry, have sex (with whom they choose) receive birth control, obtain an abortion without interference from white republican men.

purplepoppy · Answer

Abortion has went from being a personal issue to a political one. Those who bang on about it the most are only doing so because they want to show what a good little right winger they are, I doubt any really gives a shit about the embryo.

DaisyM23 · Answer

technically it is a human rights issue because abortion should be a human right but you can't exactly call it a men's issue if it's not their bodies that would be going through pregnancy or an abortion

Agape93 · Answer

No. It only affects women's bodies, and restrictions on it only affect women. Guys do have a voice and a say, but they don't get the final say in what another person does with their own bodies and their own medical choices.

Danzigdawson · Answer

The only people who have a problem with abortion within the first few weeks after conception are the christofascist nutjobs who seriously need to be humbled and put back in their fucking place.

robhazelnut · Answer

If the concept of rights is intended to protect the most vulnerable and helpless people, then they could only work when applied to all people, most significantly to unborn infants.

cth2188 · Answer

Abortion is a woman's right - men don't have to carry a child for 9-10 months women do. Men shouldn't have a say so in the right of what women do with their bodies unless that woman grants him permission to do so if he fathered the children through consensual sex. As for rape, absentee father, etc men don't have a right to be included.

Drewtate · Answer

More an issue of self responsibility. 99% of abortions are avoidable

systemsareyo · Answer

It'd certainly an issue and certainly affecting humans. I voted Agree 😉☺️

Djaay · Answer

Abortion is a direct aggression and denial towards the GOD of the Bible , not men who are his image. women are furious at GOD for not being the chosen leader rather the helper and not of GODS image but from man's image.

Kudos4U · Answer

It is disturbing but predictable how quickly people abandon the "democracy" they preach and think their voice (only) should matter when it affects their own desires.

RainbowMarinade · Answer

If it’s a job for a uterus, the uterus that has to do the work should get the say. 🤷‍♀️

Dargil · Answer

Entirely agree. A pre-born child has its own unique DNA and Human Rights. This is not a religious issue. Its more fundamental.

Likes2drive · Answer

I think it’s a big mess what they’ve done with the abortion issue when it’s medically necessary at times, now, so many women have to go out of state if it’s an emergency

AviatorTom · Answer

You can put whatever label you want on it, abortion is an issue that humanity must deal with.

BarryLiverstone · Answer

As long as he is consistent in his policies; saying the federal government needs to be limited which includes not being able to restrict health care on human beings.

msc545 · Answer

Unobrn children need atorneys to defend their right to life.

Kaneki05 · Answer

Soteris said it all really.

Exterminatore · Answer

💯!!

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