I’m hearing fewer guys complain about this nowadays but it was definitely a big issue 5-10 years ago. My theory is that there was “exploited chivalry vs. modern girl mismatch” phenomenon going on where many guys were raised to be chivalrous to women. Their parents came from a different generation were most women respected vs. exploited guys who treated women ladylike and with respect. Some women still respect chivalry nowadays but they are steadily shrinking minority.
So modern “you go girl” feminism started raising its ugly head in the 90s and absolutely got blown out the water in the late 2010s. This is 3rd wave of feminism look at “gender equality” as a zero sum game and as a war. This change in female behavior came before the change in male behavior (which is just reacting to the change) came along.
Modern feminism encourages women to indulge their own thoughts as “their truth”. It’s tells women that they are “oppressed” and not to think twice about their actions and it can harm men. As if they are in a war. So playing dumb, accepting attention/favors and not caring about how it’s ultimately really going to harm the extremely selfish. She doesn’t need to think deeply or ask for advice (from other men) on how to handle it. No need to feel guilty for taking advantage of the guy either.
So modern feminists this is “okay”. Reason being the women is being true to her nature and it’s okay to take advantage of him because it’s “us vs. them”. She can self justify this because some other unrelated guy took advantage of her at one point. Two wrongs make a right.
But I noticed guys are wising up to this behavior. Sure large swathes of men are single (still single if friendzoned) nowadays. However it seems that more men now know better not to waste their time with the exploitive women.
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You make some fair points man. I think guys our age are definitely catching on more these days. A few years ago, I was totally one of those dudes always getting "friendzoned" without even realizing what was really going on.
Looking back, it was kinda messed up how some girls would lead guys on and take advantage of all the attention/favors without ever having real intentions. Like, have some respect for other people's feelings, ya know?
At the same time though, I don't think it's totally fair to blame feminism or say all modern women act that way. Lots of girls just out here trying to figure their shit out same as us.
I've met cooler chicks now who do respect guys as people, not just objects to use when it's convenient. Those are the ones really worth investing time in if there's a connection.
Overall I'd say don't write anyone off totally based on gender. Judge each person individually by how they treat you. And look out for your own self-interests too instead of being a doormat - that's really the key these days on both sides in my opinion.
The phrase “friendzone” didn’t even exist when I was 22. Nobody really understood the concept back then. No one ever explained to me what was happening when I was getting burned back then.
That’s one advantage your generation has over mine. But guys your age also have a lot new challenges in society as well.
You're totally right bro, it was way harder to figure this stuff out back in the day without terms like "friendzone" being common knowledge. Guys our age do have some advantages with all the dating advice out there now online.
And yeah, we face our own challenges for sure. Social media messes with dudes' heads, makes it hard not to compare your life to flashy highlight reels. And some girls our age seem to just swipe right looking for an ego boost instead of an actual connection.
Plus the me too movement is important, but it does make a lot of us paranoid about coming on too strong or misreading signals. Nobody wants a harassment accusation just cause they misjudged interest.
Dating was probably more straightforward in your day. You shot your shot without fear of "misunderstandings" going viral. And chicks still appreciated chivalry from what I hear.
It is what it is man. At least now when we take an L, we can hop on Reddit and know it's not just us! Appreciate you older heads passing down the wisdom tho, helps cut through the noise online sometimes.
Yeah I don’t waste my time on Reddit or listening to Andrew Tate. Guys like him are actually a bad example in my opinion for a lot of reasons.
You are partially correct about “ Dating was probably more straightforward in your day. You shot your shot without fear of "misunderstandings" going viral. And chicks still appreciated chivalry from what I hear.”
20 years ago a guy could do or say something stupid while trying to approach a woman (intentionally or not). As long as it wasn’t obviously crossing the line people would forget about it in a few weeks. Now with social media it’s permanent. And there is a “shoot first ask questions later” when it comes to metoo accusations.
However the “you go girl” attitude and taking advantage of chivalrous guys started really becoming a problem in 90s and got worse and worse. My parents grew up in a conservative community in the 60s and 70s. Women actually respected chivalry more back then. That doesn’t mean they would always choose the guy who was courting them. But if they choose not to they wouldn’t disrespect him by playing dumb. They usually would marry someone else. At that point it would be very foolish for both the woman and the man to remain “friends”. Her life would change. She knows that her husband could get suspicious and pissed off if she was still hanging out with a “suitor”. It didn’t make her look good in society either.
But now women are marrying less they still crave the “nice guy” platonic commitment a good husband was supposed to provide. They try to piecemeal a “perfect man” by getting their sexual needs met by some exciting asshole while having an “orbiter” around to kiss their asses. They want the best of both worlds. And modern feminism keeps telling them they are special and entitled to it. But they can’t have both.
But anyway lots of my guys in my generation got friendzoned and were completely unaware/naive about what was happening. At least nowadays guys have more awareness for that bs. You saw feminists making up ridiculous slogans like “the friéndzone doesn’t exist” a few years ago. Funny how that went away quickly. My theory is more women found themselves in the reverse situation given more of them approach men nowadays and men aren’t always reciprocating.
Anyway that’s some good news at least guys are catching on to that crap.
Yeah man, you make some fair points. Dating and relationships are definitely way more complicated these days compared to past generations. Social media has changed everything too.
I can see how the whole "friendzone" thing would be more frustrating without clear communication. Leading someone on just to keep them around doesn't seem right. At the same time, people aren't always perfect about that stuff since feelings can be confusing.
From my perspective as a younger guy, I'm just trying to focus on myself, be upfront about what I want, and not take anything too personally if it doesn't work out. Easier said than done of course! But stressing over what society or feminist ideals say isn't super helpful to me.
Everyone just wants to feel valued in the end, whether that's guys or girls. I figure as long as I try my best to show respect to people as individuals, that's all I can really do in the dating world these days. And I'll learn as I go. Maybe some things were simpler back in your day, but every generation faces its own hurdles I guess.
I prefer to have friends. It also allows them to look further when we can still meet and talk without expectations.
It makes us all more comfortable around each other. And it creates opportunities which would never appear if we didn't know each other so good.
So, I have no problem being friendzoned. And I also, by default, friendzone any new guy I meet, at least until we know each other better, to decide if we want to be in our friend circles or not.
People are different and make decisions based on other reasons. And for me, feminism never was a reason for any of my choices.
I have no problem whatsoever being romantically turned down. No matter how fickle and unfair the reason is I go by the motto: attraction isn’t a choice.
But respect is a choice. Playing dumb is very disrespectful especially when the other person is wasting time, energy, effort, money, etc trying to date you.
Anyway I haven’t been friendzoned in years. I got radar for that crap now and that was developed from some beyond horrible experiences in the past.
But I’ve definitely had women try to pull this crap on me. Including grown ass women in their 30s. I has a woman a year older then me absolutely blow this out of the water a few years ago.
The irony is I actually cut this woman more slack than I would usually give to a younger girl. I thought I was misreading her but I wasn’t. I thought women would understand what this psychologically does to men when they get older. For example I no longer “play dumb” if I’m hooking up with a girl who really wants a relationship (but doesn’t speak up about it) and I don’t. I’ll tell her where i stand not to lead her on. Even if that ultimately means the sex will go away.
It’s not easy to say that but it’s about respect. But some people never grow up.
I don't date people I don't know. So if any man wants to date me, he must be friendzoned until we both feel comfortable around each other and we both decide that something is going on between us that is worth a deeper check.
Why should I risk and date someone I don't know?
I think we got a different definition of “friendzoned”.
This is my definition (and the genders can be reversed):
A guy notices a girl he finds attractive. He asks her a on a date and pays for everything but also takes it slow to get to know her. He respectful and not pushy.
The woman accepts the date and all the favors that go along with it. It’s plain as day to her that he’s interested. But even though she finds him to be “nice” she isn’t attracted to him.
The man continues to pursue the woman. He texts her, asks her to hang out, keeps doing nice things for her, etc. She “plays dumb” and keeps accepting the attention and benefits.
One day he finally tries to make a move and/or is open about his feelings. No longer being able to get away with “playing dumb” she asks him “can we just be friends?” (very insulting).
It’s when women play dumb to lead guys on and exploit them for their own benefit. That’s my definition of the “friendzone”. The woman rarely if ever will change her mind either. Even if she dates him, she will have lower tolerance for him making mistakes. Also more likely to cheat on him.
Attraction isn’t a choice and she’s just doesn’t have it for him. But she just can’t say no to all the benefits he provided. She could of done the right thing and spoke up about how she really feels before the guy wasted his time, energy, effort, money and heart. But she didn’t. She just was too selfish because she didn’t want the attention and benefits going away.
That’s not a true “friendship”. The woman is a huge liability to the man in the scenario. She doesn’t have any real respect for him either (and respect IS a choice).
Also the genders can be reversed here. I’m guilty of doing this to one girl in HS and another in college. But I was much younger back then and had no idea what was the best way of going about it. But when grown ass adults over 30 do this…. smdh.
It's a very specific scenario. I can believe it can happen from time to time. But where was this man's brain when she wasn't attracted to him during this whole time? It's easy to distinguish if a girl only accepts nice gestures or commits to a new relationship...
“ where was this man's brain when she wasn't attracted to him during this whole time”
Alright that. THAT. That right there. Why is the man expected to be able to read a woman’s mind? Why does the woman get a “pass” and off scott free for taking advantage of him? It’s just because “she can” and not because “she should”. Right?
If you are really interested in someone you are often not thinking clearly. Your brain chemicals give you rosy glasses on people’s behaviors. Some people can and will exploit that.
And this goes back on how women have increased their demands and expectations on men to be more sensitive to their feelings over the years. But when the shoe is on the other foot the woman gets a pass?
The most deeply insulting thing about the friendzone (besides being a huge waste of time, resources, heart for the man) is the man doesn’t feel like the woman respects him like a real man. Instead she sees him as another woman she can platonically “bond” with. If the man has feelings for her then that’s a much deeper and lasting insult then most women will ever comprehend.
lol...
Without reading other people's signs, you won't survive. People give signs... only 12% of communication is verbal.
And you know... you can always ask. I don't say this woman did good, she didn't. She should openly say she is not interested. But ffs everyone is responsible for their lives. So blaming others that you don't take care of your own relationship is stupid...
Lol. Yeah. Haha. Sure. Lol. Ha.
Like I said I haven’t had let a woman get away with this bs in a very long time. I got radar for that crap. I’ve called out and cut off at least 3 different women for this crap in the last 5 years (although I did get sexual with all of them as one point).
But it’s depressing when women TRY to do this crap. And that leads back to my original “modern woman” observation. The idea that everything is a zero game. Just trying to get away with what can vs. asking yourself if you SHOULD do that. Not pausing to think it all the way through.
You know a few years ago I was hooking up with a very attractive young lady that I met at a local gym. After the third time she said “oh I am so happy I got a boyfriend!” Ah that was not how I saw it. The fourth time we met up I calmly but tactfully told her face to face I wasn’t looking for a relationship. She was visibly hurt to hear that but I know I did the right thing. I am not going to lead her on only to see her her more hurt down the road.
But people just don’t want to give that kind of respect any more. Do they?