Girls Should Pay The Bill On The First Date!

LonelyGuy87
Girls Should Pay The Bill On The First Date!

Men and Women Are Equal

A surprisingly large amount of people still think a guy should pay, especially girls. This is so crazy and hypocritical. Most people think men and women are equal (rightfully so) yet they still think the guy has to pay for the first date. So on the basis of equality, the bill should be split.

Girls Are More Successful Than Guys

You see, the tradition of the guy paying on the first date is linked to a time when guys had to provide for girls. A lot of girls didn't work and were reliant on guys...therefore a date was sort of a guy treating a girl and providing for her. Now, society is equal (kinda). Guys and girls work, however young women earn more and are much more successful than young men. Yes, the success of men and women have reversed and now girls are the ones making more than guys. So, why should a guy still have to pay and why not the opposite...? Why don't girls pay for guys now. They have more money and better jobs, so why shouldn't they?

Dating Roles Have Completely Reversed

So this is going back to the previous point of how guys used to sort of provide for girls and stuff. Yes that's changed in relation to income and jobs but dating roles have also changed. Guys have become what girls used to be like and girls have become what guys used to be like. Girls are the ones avoiding relationships and leading guys on. Girls are the ones who are more sexual and promiscuous than guys are now. Girls are the ones cheating and breaking guys hearts. So guys and girls have reversed their roles...so this goes back to the first date. If guys are now girls and girls are now guys (metaphorically) then, going by the tradition of the guy paying, then, shouldn't GIRLS be the ones who pay the bill on the first date?

Thanks for reading. What do you think?

Girls Should Pay The Bill On The First Date!
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Most Helpful Guys

  • loveslongnails
    What do I think? I think someone, or "someones" female, hurt you a lot!! I also KNOW, not "think", there are more misconceptions, false assumptions, outright lies and garbage in this post than a Trump speech! This could explain your screen name, "Lonely Guy". Holy crap, where to begin! How about this... who gives a shit who asks whom out, or who might earn more money (women do NOT earn more than men, not even for the identical job)? Unless the woman is filthy rich and asks you somewhere you obviously can't afford, wouldn't you want to make a good impression and pick up the tab? If YOU ask a girl out and she accepts, are you thinking.. "cool, I only have to pay for myself"? You're one cheap son of a bitch and you're trying to lay it off on "social changes", like the bullshit statements that girls lead men on, are more promiscuous, cheat more and break hearts more? I'd wager if you get ANY first dates at all, you don't get any second ones !! Get your head out of Instagram and learn how to be a gentleman and treat a lady. True, there are plenty of girls who aren't ladies (yet), but if you pick one of them and make a mistake, what did it cost you... lunch? Coffee? You're going to be a lonely guy for a long time if you distrust ALL women that much!
    Is this still revelant?
    • Women aren't ladies anymore so why should I treat them as if they are?

    • LMAO ... you're 18 years old! You only know "girls", and probably the wrong ones. There are plenty of girls who are fine young ladies, but you gotta seek them out. But first, are you even a gentleman yourself, who knows what to look for... or are you the misogynist, jaded kid you sound like already - at 18 !

    • 🤣🤣 Made my day

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  • Anonymous
    Dating roles have not reversed. But I d agree women should pay more often. They should always offer to pay their share, if not the entire bill.

    The fact is most women say one thing but do another when it comes to this issue. Most of them on the internet say they offer to split the bill but that is far from reality, and most of them still judge a man harshly if he actually accepts their offer and won't go on another date with him.

    THAT is what needs to change. Women need to stop being such tremendous hypocrites on the subject of gender equality.
    Is this still revelant?
    • I agree. Too many girls are hypocrites when it comes to equal right. However, I disagree with you in saying that dating roles have not reversed. I think they have.

    • Anonymous

      Nah, dating roles haven't reversed. Not even close.

Most Helpful Girls

  • Anonymous
    I always offer to split the bill on the first date and genuinely don't mind it, or I at least offer to pay for the next date if he insists on paying for the first. I think that's only fair in today's world and I think that those women who insist on having men pay are huge hypocrites.

    Dating roles haven't completely reversed and a lot of the things you're saying there are biased e. g. girls being the one being more promiscuous, leading guys on, cheating, avoiding relationships. That happens more today but they just do it as much as many guys do. Guys didn't stop doing those things.

    in my opinion guys aren't supposed to act like girls, and girls aren't supposed to act like guys. We should treat each other equally and be given the same opportunities, but we shouldn't be reversing the roles.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Girls are more promiscuous than guys and are cheaters. Most girls are like this. I am not like this so for me, it's unfair and most girls are monsters with no emotions or respect.

    • Anonymous

      Women aren't more promicuous than men and statistically cheat about the same amount as men do. Most girls prefer a relationship, which is why a lot of guys lie to us and pretend to want more to try and get us to sleep with them. We aren't monsters.

    • I don't believe you. That sounds too good to be true.

  • pitzi
    "Men and women are equal" so if that was true... why are
    "Women more successful" and "women should pay the bill"?

    First of all, men are more successful. Men earn more because more men choose higher payment jobs than women.

    Second, both of the people on the date need to AT LEAST offer to pay. I don't mind paying the bill, but I wouldn't date a guy who expected me to pay and didn't even offer to pay it.

    I hate to sound this way, but all this myTake is just really generalizing all girls to be the same nowdays. Guess what? We non-promiscuous girls exist too.

    And ALSO, you said the rules are getting reversed as if it was a guy's thing to cheat. Obviously not true.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Katja9

      Sry your information is outdated. Women earn more. Much more than men. But men are to stupid to get it. I work in marketing and see Facebook's data. Young women earn more then men. Of my friends the is only one where the guy earns more all of them have good jobs.

      And in cheating. For sure women cheat more with good guys. The looser boys stick with girls who cheat and forgive. 1 good guy has 10 girls 5 of them have a boyfriend. The losers have 1 girl which cheats.

      And of the good guy does not earn more than me

    • @Katja9 You're probably talking about some places or based on what you seen. Or they're probably just addressing those women who makes money more than guys because it's you know surprising. It doesn't really surprise people if a guy is rich. That thing you said is not yet officially addressed globally.

    • www.cnbc.com/.../...d-women-earn-at-every-age.html This is 2018. Sure women are getting richer by comparison before but they still haven't surpassed men.

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What Girls & Guys Said

7992
  • Logorithim
    Guys compete more for Girls than the other way around, so good luck getting them to pay as a rule on the first date.
    • Tyme1313

      Well I've had more then one woman pay for my meals. So...🤷‍♂️

    • Logorithim

      @Tyme1313; Sometimes it happens. But that is not the case for most guys.

    • Tyme1313

      It's happened to me plenty, guess I'm just special. 🤴

    • Show All
  • StingRayxoxo
    For me, it isn’t about money/who pays. Essentially I want a “poor kind of love”. This doesn’t mean I want to be poor or that I’m okay with a “cheap” person. I just want to know that if my partner and I fall on hard times financially, we can still have fun together without spending money.

    I want a partner in life. That being said, I don’t mind paying for a date. Take turns, etc.
  • OlderAndWiser
    Your ideas do not comport with the real world. You can insist that any girl who dates you follow y our rules, if you want. Please report back to us 6 months from now and tell us how that is working for you.
  • Aiko_E_Lara
    Umm no. The reason behind those double standards is because of biology. Men aren't punished by mother nature as much as women. Just accept it. Men in on average are paid higher than women for goodness sake so don't be selfish. We don't need more males rights activist.
    • Women aged 20-30 earn more than men of the same age. What "biology" are you talking about? Guys and Girls are perfectly equal the way I see it so no, girls should pay on the first date, or at least split the bill.

    • Umm no. Men on average are more cable of working with higher paid job. Sure I would love to see you work on your period or when your pregnant in heavy duty but high paying job.

    • www.google.com/search

      And by the way I'm not even saying we should pay. We let them if they insist.

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  • SarahsSummer
    I Completely 100% disagree with virtually everything you wrote.
    • Alright. You're entitled to your own opinion, no matter how incorrect it is. No worries.

    • Through this exercise of yours, I think you’ll find my opinion is more prevalent than you had hoped. but that’s what G@G was created for. Good luck to you in your dating travails

  • michaela94
    I think since it is a first date, it would be most fair and neutral for the bill to be split. That way if one party does not have a good time, they don't have to be upset about paying for a date they don't see a future with. Also, I think this would prevent some of the stigma that comes with a man paying and a woman feeling like she needs to compensate with sexual favors - which is often implied by men.
    • Girls fuck on the first date because they are horny and like sex - not to please men. Get your facts right.

    • michaela94

      You can't speak for every woman - nor can I. But, I know multiple women who have felt pressured to have sex on the first date. No need to be angry and act like you know women's experiences when you never could.

  • Puppylover_129
    I respectfully disagree. What I prefer is both parties paying their own and split the bill? Why? Because I take the first date as a getting to know you kind of thing. Like, we are friends on the first date. I don't expect anything drop down romantic or chivalrous, just be a decent person and ill be like "hmm maybe this could lead somewhere" I hate having to worry about what to get and when should I ask who's paying? If he REALLY wants too, I'll let him. Even a movie date, I payed for snacks and he payed for tickets. But that's just me. And of course if we get together he's more than welcome to pay if he really wants to, but i love paying for a meal or a date for him to make him feel loved too. I bought my boyfriend a whole prime rib dinner at a really nice steakhouse just because i wanted to spoil him a bit. It really depends on the type of person you are.

    This doesn't have to do with role reversal or girls are becoming men in relationships. Its that women don't have to rely on men to treat them to everything. We make our own money, so there's no reason for us not to spoil our partner here and there. Men gotta feel like appreciated too you know! Lol
  • MlleCake
    Dating roles have not completely reversed - because they weren't hard and fast roles or "rules" to begin with. Plus, not all dates are between a man and a woman.

    Globally, women still earn less than men, and men typically seek women who make less money than they do. (One can argue that the wage gap is not because of sexism, but it is undeniable that there is still a gap.)

    My personal feeling is that the two people going on the date should discuss and decide how they want to handle paying for dates, and do what works for them. For some people that's going to be splitting the bill, or one person picks up the tab this time and then it's the other person's turn the next time. And in some circumstances it might be the situation where the one with the higher income, or greater financial success, pays for the dates because the other person really can't, and they decide being together is more important than worrying about being perfectly 50/50.

    The only rule is that both people agree, no one tries to get greedy or hurt the other one, and they conduct their relationship however is most comfortable for them.

    I'm very much in favor of trying to keep things balanced in a relationship, where both people feel like they are getting a lot out of it, and neither person feels used or taken advantage of. But between two people, that can look a lot of different ways.

    You have these absolute ideas about women and dating that don't reflect the reality of how normal people go about dating and finding love. Get yourself out of your lonely, angry little butthurt imagination and actually meet and get to know some women like they are normal human beings. The way you speak about women makes it seem like we are an alien species that just landed here to fuck up your life. That's not reality.

    Go make some female friends. Get to know us. We are very much not what you keep thinking we are.
  • VaIiant
    I have to ask, where the FUCK are your facts for women earning more then men? Are you just pulling that out of your ass? Where are your studies and sources and statistics.

    Dating roles have not reversed. Thats a broad assumption of 8+ billion people, kiddo.

    Overall you sound like some dude who got his heart stomped on by some girl and are taking it out by assuming stuff about all women in general. Stop it.
  • BrittBratt2416
    Not unless I ask you first, which i did with my boyfriend. So If i ask you first, then yes.. I will gladly pay for the first date. But I'm not going to ask you and then be some uncourteous dick that makes you pay when I asked you to spend a moment of your time with me. Who does that? If it's an outing, like two friends going to hang out and chill, then I have problem paying for my own shit.. but a date.. I'm gonna pay for you cause I asked you out.
    • And I don't want to hear about how guys ask most of the time, if you not courteous enough to pay for a date that you wanted, then don't bother asking.

    • Except guys don't really have a choice since if they don't ask, the chances of them ever being asked out are pretty slim.

    • @ThisDudeHere u didn't read my comment under this did you

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  • XTropicalchickX
    I think that the guy should pay for the date. Maybe I'm a bit classic here, but I like the idea of the guy asking the girl out then paying for the date.
    • Jonny317

      Because you have class/ taste. Expect more and you get more.

  • BaileyisDarcy
    I always let a guy know beFORE weve gone for food, whether or not i can pay for myself (hard up on cash lately).

    They pretty much always know from the start that i dont like for them to pay for me, but that i will need them to from time to time.

    But they also know that i will pay them back one way or another when i can. Usually through endless free coffees.
  • AlienParasite
    I've always been someone who likes to split the bill. I don't pay no one's meal until we agree to be in a serious relationship. I hope for the other person to feel same way I do, and I don't want him to pay for me but neither want him to expect me to pay all. We are dating to meet each other, not to have a free meal and use other people as a wallet.
  • DeeDeeDeVour
    "Would you be offended if I pay for my share of our date?" I usually said that line when we talked on the phone before the date. Typically, I'd get "Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. But, if you don't mind, it was my intention to cover the entire cost of the evening."

    Most of the time, my dates grab the bills and insist on paying everything. That usually indicates that the date is going well. If the date isn't going well, I'd insist on paying for the meal & drinks then head out alone.
  • avalonbob
    Society has gone nuts. Men pay for all dates. It's an affront to the male ego to have a girl offer to pay.
    • Male ego? Yeah well girls cheat and are more promiscuous than guys are so men's egos flew out the window long ago.

    • avalonbob

      The question had nothing to do with cheating. It had to do with what one learns in Prep School etiquette class, like men pay for dates, men hold the chair for his date, men help the girl on with her coat and open the door for her. I learned all that 65 years ago and my 15 year old grandson learned it in his Prep School, too, and is still required to take classes, at 15.

  • Ellie-V
    I am so glad that I never have to face this retarded issue
  • worldscolide
    LOL all the hate from the Pink Anons.. Just proves that women can be FAR more sexist than men at times.
  • BlueCoyote
    Your generalization doesn't make sense. Just because young women in general might be more successful doesn't mean the girl who is sitting across the table from you is doing better than you financially.

    I don't understand why people can't just do a 50-50 split (regardless of who ate more). People are so stingy these days.
  • kcahill_
    It is so attractive when a guy swoops in and grabs the check to pay once the waitress sets it on the table. When a guy takes charge like that you know he wants to impress you. If he wants to split it, you know he’s not that into you.
    • Tyme1313

      Not really, I split the bill even if I'm into someone. My law school is $57,000 per semester. I dont see spending money for someone I dont know unless there is a 100% return investment. I've got to much going out to just throw money away, and a lot of guys have this issue anymore.

  • lilaqua
    Who actually goes out for dates?
    Plus pay for your own food
    • I know right! Girls just ask random dudes to go to their house and fuck them. That's what's because of dating.

    • lilaqua

      no man, it's called hanging out at home.

    • Which is what I said...

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  • Toldol2
    Yes things are so reversed. I swear people, soon enough a man ego will not be based on his success at work and his ability to potentially provide for his family... things are so reversed a man will only need love and the women will tell men that they don't need relationships right now because they are busy with work...

    The only guys who let the girls pay have a gigolo mentality or deep anger toward women in general
  • StormMistress
    First date I say who ever asked out who pays then following dates we pay for our own meals or 50/50 if that works better.
  • jellyroo
    Nah man, pay for your own damn meal.
    Unless we're in a committed relationship, I don't buy this "one person pays the whole bill" crap.
    If we're committed, then sure, we'll switch it around and/or adapt who has the ability to pay and who's asking to go out to eat more. I'd do the same for a friend.
  • WeirdCinderella
    Alright the only thing I agree with you is when you say the bill should be split. But actually, not every women have a successful job, not every men have a lame job. Then what is this stereotype of man/woman cheating more and being more manipulative? Many guys are still cheaters and manipulators, and many women are cheaters and manipulators too, but that's so wrong to put everyone in the same bag!
  • ColoradoBound35
    Honestly, I think whoever asks the other out should pay. If the girl asks the guy out on the first date, she should pay... if it's the guy, then he should pay.
  • guywithissues900
    Men also are hypocritical lol. People only want equality in the areas they deem convenient. Both sexes. It’s not just women.
  • IIWiccaII
    It is a gentleman thing to do to pay for the first date after that it's fair game.
  • Lolli2
    I don't mind splitting the bill, and if he has paid for me before, I'd certainly offer to pay for him the next time. But I have to say I find it more attractive/manly if he pays the bill on the first date. It would be a turn-off if he didn't. Having said that, I'd also be okay going on a date where little or no spending is involved. It's not about money.
  • Schrodingerscat
    Girls should pay for their share. First two reasons seem okay but you've resorted to generalizations again in last one.

    If a guy asks me out and I say, it's my responsibility too, to participate equally in date. Which also includes paying aka splitting bill.

    I'm not doing any favour to guy by going out with him. I'm going out with him beca I want to and my time is no more precious than his. So yes, better suck it up and pay for that meal's share instead of expecting another person to pay for it.

    I will not pay for a guy and I most certainly don't expect him to pay for me. Splitting is where it's at.
  • CubsterShura
    Am I the only person who believes that this particular topic 'who should pay on dates' is seriously something that is completely up to each couple to decide for themselves? I don't know why people are like, telling others who should pay how much. I don't fucking care.

    Never been to dates so never felt the need to decide who has to pay, but here's the fact. Regardless of who pays, I think one should always be prepared so that they can pay. Like your partner may forgot to bring their wallet or card you never know. Of course I will pay if it is my treat and he will pay if it is his treat. Otherwise, depending on the cost of the date and our income/ability, we can decide for ourselves what will be the best option.

    No one can decide for you and your partner who will pay and who will not.
    • DaDon72

      As the couple grows and matures in the relationship then it usually comes down to alternating who pays. Just my personal experience. But I have always paid for first dates.

    • Guavalott

      Agreed completely. I've been on dates where we've split the bill, I've been on dates where he's insisted on paying the whole bill and I've been on dates where I pay the whole bill. Every date I go on I make sure I have the cash on me, I've had times where he only has card and I have cash so I'll say it's fine I'll pay it all or get the next one and that's that. Most of the time we just split the costs across the date. Like I went on one date to a bowling alley, I paid for bowling and the arcade then he paid for dinner after. It really is up to what the couple decides is best at the time or what they prefer.

    • MrOracle

      While I completely agree with everything you said, @CubsterShura , I think this is more about women's EXPECTATIONS/assumptions rather than who actually pays. And there are plenty of women who aren't shy about saying "if he doesn't pay for the date, then I'm done with him."

      To be fair, while that attitude has certainly not disappeared, I will say that women have definitely become more reasonable about this issue over the last 50 years. I was a teen in the 80s, and even then, women fully expected the guy to pay. In the generations since, a lot more women are fine with paying their own way, and given all the other changes that have occurred over that time, they should be. So things are moving in the right direction.

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  • Marrry
    Every time I make a move to pay my half the guy doesn't let me. I think it's an ego thing. They feel more manly if they pay for both. Anyways I make the move and if they won't let me I won't fight it.
  • RosabelleRabbitLover
    I don’t really like when guys always have to be the one buying and treating girls only to get taken advantage of. That’s why pay for your own is way better, I’m not saying a guy isn’t allowed to buy gifts and girls should buy gifts for guys too.

    Equality is best compared to girls deserve to be treated like queen or guy should be treated like king.
  • Q-tip-boy
    If i make up the plan to take anyone for meal, then i'll pay. If she's making the plan then she should pay.

    The person who ( brings up/ suggests/ asks out for) the meal has to pay.

    The person who asks out for the date has to pay.

    If a girl is makinfg the plan , then i am enough self-respecting to (at least*) pay my bill.

    Dating is not a part of our culture and i dont even support it. People do it. Let them do. That's what i think.

    End of the discussion for me.
  • HaveNoName
    I am not in the dating world, but when I go on lunch dates with female friends, I never expect them to pay. There is no reason they should pay unless she is the host or that was the condition she insisted on. Even then, I have tricked on paying all of myself because I just don't feels right. Again, just cultural.

    The only thing I don't pay for is alcohol.
    • You are not in the dating world, splitting the bill with Friends, male or female is always the appropriate action.

    • Mornin23

      Buddy, that’s just stupid. I never pay for one of my female friends when we go out. If I was on a date, he’ll yeah I’m paying, but what you’re doing is letting yourself be taken advantage of, and just dumb. Would you pay for a guy friend? Hell. No. Not unless they were in a bad spot once in awhile. Girls are the same way in that scenario.

    • HaveNoName

      I think it's my wish how I spend my money, right?

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  • lofii
    I agree

    I'm a prize that isn't deserved to just anyone
    • This is the attitude of almost every female - where's the equality?

    • lofii

      Ikr

      I can't believe i got a thumbs down by some pink account

      the hypocrisy

  • Clairdelune
    I think it depends. If the boy is richer, why should the girl paid? a real men should treat the girl nicely, and paying a bill for the girl will make them happy! Dont you guys want to make your girls happy on your date? it's not about the money, but showing respect and showing that you care.

    But Im totally agree on splitting the bill :)
  • totallygeneric
    How about whoever initiated gets to pay? That seems fair to me. There's also the option of just splitting the bill.
  • Blank01001
    Y'all gyals insist on equal rights nd stuff so I believe tht it's only normal for a girl to pay for or split the bills
    There's nothing wrong with tht however some males have the tendency to B stuck in the male chauvinism ideology not tht it's bad but for females such as myself; it's a bit hard to digest cuz we're so independent nd stuff; it just wouldn't fit our principles to let the guy pay even if he insist on it nd is just being sweet...
  • NEW_YUKI
    Nice takeGirls Should Pay The Bill On The First Date!
    • l will stick with you 🌹

    • NEW_YUKI

      @RIVERTAY888 thanks 😉

    • Thanks well we had a great time when we got together when l was last in japan 🤣

  • silvermoon84
    Whoever does the asking out should pay. It doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman, if you ask someone out on a date and expect them to pay, you’re an asshole regardless of your gender. Just saying
    • That's pretty convenient when you're not even expected to ask out.

    • Tyme1313

      So how many guys have you asked out then? Sit down hypocrite.

    • Just my opinion. I guess I shouldn’t have used the asshole line but still.

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  • ATuairiscean
    I would go that far but going Dutch (equal sharing) seems reasonable to me on first date then for future dates take turns that way you can suit the date to your financial situation.
  • LeoElias
    I choose to pay for her. I get what you are saying but I'm not going to willingly be "the girl" in the relationship. The way you explained guys and girls switching roles. I'll pay and if she wants to pay then sure. It's not this big deal where I expect her to pay. If paying is that big of a deal to you then you aren't mature enough to date. It's not about the paying. It's about the time you spend with that person.
  • AynonOMouse
    I figure split the bill on the first date so nobody feels used because often there won't be more than one date. If there are more then I wouldn't pay for her until she paid for me first so I know I'm not getting used for money. If she doesn't offer to pay my way after a while, just end it and leave because she is probably the type to think she is doing me a favor for just paying for herself.
  • WitchsLove
    Why not split the bill? although most guys will insist on paying.

    anyways, I dont mind paying once in a while as long as it is not always me paying. Same for him. I'd feel bad.
    • nathanp97

      Most guys won't insist on paying, and many do so simply because they assume you won't go out with them again unless they pay.

    • WitchsLove

      wow RIP rules of civility and politeness lol XD

    • Wowgirl10q

      Real men would be insulted for you to pay normally

  • winterfox10
    I get where you are coming from, but most men WANT to dote on their dates as a sign of his virtue as a mate.

    Women and men are equal, but a lot of women think in terms of quitting their jobs to raise a family. So the way a man spends his money for her is very telling about how he will provide resources for her in the future.
  • JSmuve
    I don't care about paying on the first date because its gonna be cheap as fuck anyways.

    But, going forward, you probably shouldn't write opinion pieces that go against women's perception of how things should be. They get catty as fuck, gang up on you, and hurl insults shaming you until you admit that they're right. Its actually pretty unattractive but I'm not sure they realize it. Or maybe they do and that's just who they are.
  • Ann242
    Each can just pay for their own if we are in fact equal
  • passinby
    “Men and Women Are Equal” actually women have always been more equal and hold all the cards on a date and arguing over which pays will shut down the date and you may as well write it off. “Girls Are More Successful Than Guys” again it still doesn’t matter because a date is not a competition and if it is it is over before it starts. “Dating Roles Have Completely Reversed” it shall be rare to be on a date with a non-hypergamous woman so I don’t see this happening since this date is very unlikely to happen in the first place.

    I play it safe on a first date, I either pre-arrange payment so there is never a check or I fluff it off as a business expense if she is argumentative about it. If she begins to argue over paying half, it is over anyways. That just tells me she “ain’t” worth the trouble. A date can be a good bull$hit filter.
  • 11110000bbbb
    On the first date I think you pay for your order.
    and then after see how it goes to think of paying the full bill.
  • RedRobin
    I think the bill should be split, it saves the arguments
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