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i definitely in this case think it's men. they have more pressure in general, i think.
BUT, but but but, lol in this modern dating world, women has to be careful not to appear too "emotional" or "needy" if they want a serious relationship versus the now-very-common casual relationships like "we're just talking/hanging out".
in general though, in today's dating world, people in general become more disposable because of online dating apps and such. so tbh i think it's cutting a pretty close 50/50
I believe the effort should be shared both ways, if a guy is willing to put a ton of effort into appearance, approaching, attitude, manners, education, etc then a woman should put the same amount of effort back, this way the guy is more likely to believe that a woman has a genuine interest in him and is potential relationship material as she is putting in equal effort. There is stigma on both sides however, some believe it is the mans duty to put the effort and money into a date and spoil a woman and that women should never make the first move. I disagree however, I find that when girls put an effort in and actually wanna spoil a guy for once its much more effective and appreciated.
It varies with everyone.
Some men (and women) play games. So, the other has to put in more time and effort to pursue.
Some women do "full face" makeup and take forever to pick out their clothes.
Some men have to pay for everything (or mostly everything).
^^ Situations like those don't make this an easy poll to answer.
*
I, personally, like and prefer men approaching me. However, if he catches and maintains my interest and attention; I'll approach.
- I like him to chase but only really in the beginning.
-
Between everything, it should even out.
Well, imho, it should be 100/100 but Men definitely. Here's why.
A. Yes women do a lot to look good all the time, but men also have to look good. Noone wants to date a slob, and also beautiful women really dont have to put THAT much effort into looking good (no offense to anyone). AND do you really think its harder for a woman to look good than it is for a guy to plan how, when, where, and why to approach a woman he has interest in? C'mon.
B. This ALSO comes back to men, women more often than not like or expect a man to pay for dates, and approach. a lot of men have a very hard time even approaching a woman, let alone getting a number/date.
All of if not 90% of this falls on men. And im not saying it isn't hard for some women, but it definitely requires a lot less effort for women initially.
Men, that's why as the saying goes women are the gate keepers of sex (because sex is most stressfull on them due to pregnancy and nursing a child) and men are the gate keepers of marriage (because they are the ones who have to expend the most resources have the most responsibilities etc). So men definitiley do because they do the approaching they do the planning and then they give their resources over to the woman (hence in the US 80% of spending is done by women despite the fact that men are still the primary bread winners and in some cases the only bread winner, because they are giving most of their money over to the woman (and this isn't even counting the things they end up buying themselves to give to her)).
But isn't a relationship more than just money. Putting in work is emotional, physical, mental, and financial. So you may be right that men still bring in the most money in general, but not in all cases, women work more at the emotional, and generally take care of the household and every one including the man that is envolved. Like the cleaning, cooking, taking care of the kids, etc... So I think it evens out as most women earn that little extra money that a man makes and she spends. Me I can admit my man makes more and puts more into our family financially. But I don't take advantage going on shopping sprees unless it's shopping I do for our family. In turn I take care of the kids and house primarily. As far as sex, lol, I'm the one who's doing most of the asking.
@PinkMichae How do you determin that women do more on the emotional side? It would be very hard to substantiate that.
@PinkMichae Statistically men do slightly more work then women and again they don't just put in the money (which by the way is work it is time and its emotional investment as well) they put in the time they also put in emotional investment (there not just coming home and having their girlfiend/wife do everything for them and dote on them) they are planning the dates the anniversary/valentines day/etc (again lets be honest these are all her days which is why men spend more time and money on them then women (about 2x the amount statistically speaking) They also do the cleaning and house work maybe less but then they do more paid work then women so again they do do slightly more work (if memory serves it was 50.6 vs a womans 50.2 hours of work including house hold child rearing and paid work). As for sex yes in a relationship a woman may want sex but outside of it its a danger to her that's why he asks her out he dates her basicly proving his worth to her not the other way around.
@PinkMichae So that is why men are way choosier about long term partners while women are way choosier about single one night stand sexual partners because in those scenarios they are the one who have the greater investment and thus more to lose.
I guess in my experience the men come home from work and relax. Not that they didn't ever spend time with the kids but it was mainly me. And mainly me with housework and mainly me with cooking. I take care of making sure the bills are paid and I plan the holidays. But I guess that's in my case. I didn't think in general that women were much different than me. I know it was pretty much the same with my women friends too so it's hard for me to believe in the over all men give more. I think it evens out. Take care. :)
@PinkMichae I agree (except for the sex part, that's 70/30)
@jjesica346 70/30? @PinkMichae I don't mean to be rude but you can think what you like I was merely pointing out the statistics. Your experiences tell you something but statistics is a much larger sample of experiences and they show that men generally put in more to a relationship based upon work and money. Most women are convinced men do absolutely nothing, its apparent in our society however when you look at it from an unbiased persepective the data shows men put more into relationships which is again the primary reason why men are much stricter on who the enter relationships with then women are, if women did more then them then they would only gain so it wouldn't matter whom they entered a relationship with or whom they married. But again women will always claim they do more and women will always side with women (or nearly always, thanks to their 4x greater in group preference). To each their own.
@PinkMichae and again I would like to clarify that I am not trying to attack you or insult you just stating facts I personally am completely indifferent, your response was expected so its not an emotional one, I know that's hard to convey in written form. have a nice day.
I actually do see where your coming from, because I witness relationships where as the men do a lot more than women. My sister for example, she just sits on her ass all day and all she has to do is take care of their toddler. He works, cooks, takes care of the bills and handles the majority of the errands. My position is quite different. Yes, my man makes most of our money but I also work, cook, clean (alot), handle the bills, run all the errands and handle most parental responsibilities. I dont follow the statistics, I am however going by what I live and what I witness.
@Fightingspirit biology proves women to be more emotional and men to be more simple. Because we are more emotion in general. Not all. We put more thought into talking about and solving problems, family issues when kids are envolved, etc... But it depends on the relationship because some guys can be very emotional too and the woman more shut down or not wanting to deal with issues. And of course I can't prove it. I'm going by my observations in life and all the research I've done on the different ways men and women think. :)
@PinkMichae men are simple? No men are quite complex no matter how we like to downplay it and women are equally as complex as the men no matter how much we want to play up how complicated women are. Men are emotional they simply don't let emotions rule their judgment (society would not accept that). Men don't dedicate their entire lives to their families because they don't have strong emotions nor do they fight and die in defense of said family because they have weak emotional attachments. As for conflict men actually make up better then women do according to data and by extension don't hold grudges nearly as much as women (thus decreasing the chances of conflict later).
@PinkMichae Its women who are divorceing men and destroying families not men so I can't really see women being the ones who are sticking it out and trying to make things work considering those statistics. The fact is women want to hint at problems which men simply don't get men are blunt and to the point, difference in communication. Though just look at how you talk about men and you will notice a trend and it does kind of disprove your point. As for research, your observations are flawed and bias (this is not a personal attack all people do this that is why we use double blind experiments and repeatable experiments to remove this bias) which is why statistics not only being a much larger group to draw from also help diminish this personal bias.
If it is majorly women initiating these divorces, I'm sure a lot of these cases are dealing in abusive relationships. If you were to discount these situations I am sure that you would find that statistics wouldn't conclude that women are on the front line of filing for divorce.
@jjesica346
When you look at the gay communities, gay women get divorced twice as often as gay men. I'm sure there may be abusive M/F relationships, but trust and believe that generally speaking, men aren't the problem.
@FullOfMyself straight men are nothing like gay men... so that's really not comparable.
@jjesica346 I agree. Like we just go around breaking up the family for no reason. Besides abuse there is the cheating factor. So to say women are breaking up the families is ridiculous. It would be like someone saying I broke up my family when I left my son's dad because he cheated and lied 3 times. He broke up the family when he cheated I just decided oviously he's not happy with me if he can't be faithful and Im not gonna stay and let him continue hurting me. Plus I'm not gonna let my son grow up in a house of resentment and unhappiness. So his statement there is funny. Is there a statistic on whether men cheat more? Because maybe we should tho that in there therefore leaving a woman deal with more emotions. Ok im done. This question was stupid in the first place as I don't care what others generally do. I'm happy to say my man and I are equal. Actually he would say I put more in and I'm glad we can appreciate each other for our parts. Good luck. :)
I don't think you are attacking me. And thank you for the debate. I do agree with some you say. Regardless of what the answer is I'm just glad there is couples that appreciate what each other gives to the relation. Honestly that's what's important. Not who gives more where. :)
@jjesica346 Nope. The vast majority are no fault and if abuse was the reason for divorce then more men would be initiating them as multiple groups like the CDC and NCVS have shown women are more likely to commit domestic violence then men are: www.saveservices.org/.../
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...n-in-relationships.html
and as @FullOfMyself pointed out lesbians are more likely to divorce then gay men (in fact they divorced at twice the rate). So we can state with near certainty that its not men that are causing these divorces by being "violent"(because as we all know men beat women regularly because "penis") @PinkMichae if we factor in cheating, the generally accepted statistic is that 20% of men will cheat in their life time, now presuming all of these are done within the confines of a marriage, all of them are caught and all of them lead to divorce
@PinkMichae this would still mean over 50% of divorces are filed by women, then of course if we do the inverse that would result in an additional 15% of women cheating and thus bring our number to 65% of divorces filed by or caused by women, then if we consider abuse, its a 50/50 split when their is reciprocal violence according to statistical data so that would negate each other but if we factor in non reciprocal violence which is perpetrated by women 70% of the time it would increase the divorce rate even more for being initiated by or caused by women. So again, we know that the issue isn't men. Look at your responses for instance everything you have stated is about how women do more then men (belittling men) how if divorce is initiated clearly it was all his fault (deriding men) and how men are violent abusers etc. etc. The real question isn't why women divorce so often (that's pretty apparent) the question is why don't men divorce more?
@PinkMichae As for cheating yes statisticly as I pointed out men cheat more (or to be more precise they admit to cheating more, some data suggests women cheat more however the one that seems to have the best methodology suggests that 20% of men will cheat as opposed to 15% of women, that's not a very big difference). My cousins wife cheated on him and abandoned him and his daughter, then she came back and he allowed her back into his life so that his daughter could have a mother and in an attempt to work things out at which point she cheated on him again and then abandoned him again and their daughter again. My friends cousins wife cheated on him for years and destroyed their family so I find your statement funny, its as if you refuse to acknowledge that women can be as shitty as men and that in fact in this day and age frequently more so simply because no one questions them, their is no repercussions to their wrong doing (like if she cheats he still has to pay her alimony).
I will say that you do your homework, lol!!
Oh I know women can be shitty and not sure why you would make the assumption that I think they can't be. My point is I can't believe that we can really stand here and say that one sex puts more effort in than the other when there are to many aspects beyond the areas of your stastistics to humans. What small groups of people did these so called statistics come from? Are we talking from another country where women don't work? Can we really say the small amount of men in women they do these studies with can really represent the millions of people at least in the U. S? Because I'm not. I can just as easily say that you refuse to see how shitty men can be. But I'm not. Because I don't know you well enough and am not gonna judge you in a whole by a few comments you've made. So with that said I don't believe one sex puts more effort toward the other. We are too complex, too much of individuals. There is too many grey areas to just give a black and white answer. Glad I could make you laugh. :)
@PinkMichae ik that men can't communicate like women, and "society" is not an adequate excuse!! Ik this is why we can't let issues go. If men want a successful marriage... you must relate your feelings to us before it turns into probs!!
@jjesica346 oh I couldn't agree more. My guy had to learn that. The more he listened and made an effort to change whatever issue it was instead of ignoring it, the more peaceful its become between us. He actual suprised me how much he listens and communicates now. Lol! I love it.
@jjesica346 If I make an argument I want it to be accurate to the facts as humanly as possible. As for relating the feelings, men do relate their feelings the problem is its not how women do it so you want men to talk to you like you would talk to another woman meanwhile he is trying to talk to you like he would express his emotions to his friends, its not men being unemotional or restrained (although in this day and age women are very anti men, if you look at media and even how women talk about their significant others (talking about how lazy they are or how they are screw ups or this or that and it is rarely if ever good) it makes it really hard to express yourself to a person who seems to constantly judge you and find you lacking, who nags you or in some cases even talks to you like a child (I have witnessed this multiple times and have even read a woman confessing to doing all of these things)). The fact is we communicate differently
@jjesica346 men communicate through actions and deal with emotions through actions, women tend to talk (and I would very much like to point out women dance around topics all the time, the whole "if you don't know whats wrong then I am not going to tell you" cliché did not pop into existence because it doesn't have some element of truth to it, or when women say their "fine" when they clearly are not, again women have so many issues that they have no room to talk about "commincating") Claiming that men have to change how they communicate, how they deal with their emotions because its wrong because its not how you would do it is yet another example of the issues between the genders. Respect that he acts and thinks differently then you don't demand that he function as you do otherwise friction will always exist. @PinkMichae From the sound of it you brow beat him and nagged him into submission and claim that as a victory. You stated he had to learn to communicate
@PinkMichae and understand you, but did you ever try to understand him? To learn to communicate with him? "The more he listened and made an effort to change whatever issue it was instead of ignoring it" the more he listened (but you didn't) and made an effort to change (but you didn't). This shows that it was him who was forced to alter himself to suit your wants, that's not communication that's not a partnership that's him being forced to be what you want him to be. That's the problem with marriages and current relationships he is the one who sacrifices.
How do you know I didn't. You make a lot of assumptions about me. I did listen too. And we came to compromise. But my guy was extremely closed off and it took me to teach him how to communicate which he will be the first to tell you he is thankful for. Because now it is easier for him to talk to me about work and everything else instead of keeping it all inside and exploding. He would yell and explode at anything I brought up. He couldn't deal with any problems. Then and only then did I start saying things were fine when he noticed something was wrong because I was scared he would explode again. But after sometime I had to finally build the courage to tell him I can't do this. I can't be in a relationship where no communication was aloud because of him not understanding. And after time for him to think he finally saw what I was saying. And he finally took the time to not just listen but to understand what I was saying. I've always been a good listener as its the type of person I am.
See its your assumptions you make that makes me doubt anything you say. You can't just judge someone's life from a few statements and think you know exactly what the situation is. You have to ask questions. So leave it alone already. Nothing you've said about me has been correct. And the funny thing is I haven't made one comment trying to judge who you are. Just that I don't agree with you. Stop making this so personal. I have nothing against you. Stop thinking you know me. You haven't a clue.
@PinkMichae No I did not make assumptions and you made it quite clear you doubted everything I said long before I made my last statement. I pointed out that by your words you taught him, that is you told him what to do and then he did it and everything is fine and dandy. That's what you where saying that sounds very self obsessive as if the only right way is your way and that he is a child (or dog) that needed to be trained in order to work and communicate in the way YOU thought best. I was basing everything I stated on what you said. At no point did you mention anything you had to do except to take it upon yourself to teach him, so that is why you got the response you did. You did not say we worked things out and figured out how to best communicate you said he had to learn.
@PinkMichae You previously stated that you are more emotionally invested in the relationship and suggested you do more which saying how he just comes home and relaxes while you work, again heavily suggesting that you where and are doing exactly what I stated it sounded like you where doing. When your the hero at all times and he is the one who has to learn (by your example) when your the one working and he is the one sitting around doing nothing then that heavily implies that you are more self focused and really don't appreciate him, I never said this is what is happening only that this is the impression you give when you spoke about the subject and thus the reason why so many issues come up is because of these attitudes which again are very much prevalent in our society. We do not respect men we do not appreciate them and your words pretty much made it sound like you where the same.
Toooootally man! Yeeep no doubt on that one.
Woman are expected to look good all the time, be nice bla bla bla ( yes it's alot) but guys are expected to pay for dates, look good, talk good, maintain the conversation going, have a good job. soo I vote guys.
Women have to look good at all times to even get approached or dated, sometimes nobody approaches women so they have to approach men themselves (a lot of that is happening these days, I am one of those women), women are now expected to pay for dates or at least half the dates. Women are expected to have good jobs and look pretty all the time. I'm not saying it's ALL on women but it's not as cut and dry and the guys think.
Women aren't expected to have good jobs by men. It's cool, but not something girls "have to" have per the question. But you do make a good case for the amount of effort involved for women. I've always had respect for girls that approach guys *thumbs up*.
@rjroy3 tbh they kind of are tho? Men want women to make their own money these days and dating is expensive so women have got to have the cash to date. It's not as expected as it is for dudes, that's true but it's still expected that a woman works for her money and also that she doesn't have a dead end job. And yeah I approached my ex because he simply wouldn't ask me out!
The reason I say it's not is because as long as she's not relying expecting the man to pay for her, guys don't really care if she even has a job. She could be using Daddy's money and guys would date her. The amount of financial effort tops off at working enough to pay for your own meal. If a guy is living at home, using dad's money it's a turn off. That's why the question expressed the effort you "have to" put in.
Lol, I hope it was a good relationship before you two caller it quits at least.
@rjroy3 well I do mate I expect her to make money and not ponse off me lol
@rjroy3 nah he's a jack ass and I wish we had never met tbh.
My condolences lol
@Mrwoo99 so you would not consider dating a cool, hot, rich college girl who doesn't have a job?
I'd have sex with her only but when it comes to relationships, if I'm having to pay money all the time to look after her and pay for everything I might as well get an escort. The thing is average girls have to compensate for not been hot which i would expect.
@Mrwoo99 she's rich and using Daddy's money. You would not be paying for her.
Ok then yeah
@Mrwoo99 point proven lol.
What do you want... a medal?
@Mrwoo99 I'll accept it graciously.
Yeah but most girls don't come from rich daddies because only 20% of men in world are rich. An dad's don't always provide for their daughters and these days it's a single mother epidemic. So these girls your talking about are a small margin
Hot girls don't need a job becuase their hot and men will pay for them and so will I. The only time I spend money on girls is if their hot but with goodlooking or below I wouldn't spend a dime
@Mrwoo99 you're continuing to strengthen my point for me lol. You can keep the medal.
Well no like I said it still depends. If she's not hot I expect her to work on other things and maybe spend some money on me
@Mrwoo99 ie, her appearance is something she has to put effort into, while having a good job isn't. And it's only if she hasn't put the effort into her appearance that you want her to pick up the slack monetarily. Unless she's rich, then even then you don't care if she has a job because you don't have to pay for her.
Well yeah i still have standards but by time she's 30 and hasn't found a decent guy becuase she's focused on money which do much for a woman. Considered she's failed and might have to settle. This is why I always say women should find a nice guy in their youth instead if chasing bad boys and tall pretty boys. Women are delusional and think if they have sex with them that they can get commitment from these rich guys, bad boys and tall pretty boys when in fact they just use them for sex. then when they turn 30 with a history of partners all nice guys with decent jobs don't want them
@Mrwoo99 ie, while it's better for their future they don't have to put real effort into that category to have success in dating per the question asked
honestly hun it's the women's fault
they use us
so we close ourselves so it doesn't happen again
@relaxrelax plenty of men use women too.
Women in their prime 20s are too busy chasing the top 20% or small pool of men for sex and trying to get commitment from them but don't want the nice guys for relationship and feminism encourages women to chase this top alpha males reasons why men are pulling out and going MGTOW
This is obviously a no-brainer.
Men have to do everything in relationship, from beginning to end.
Women think doing a romantic gesture for us is having sex xD
Women demand way more than men when it comes to relationships.
You're going with the wrong women if you're doing everything
@BuchitaBuchys Or...
Or what? You are. And you get no sympathy because why are you going with such women?
ohh look son, some buthurted woman down-voted truthful opinion...
@BuchitaBuchys So it's my fault that those women acted that way? Nice hahahahhaha I guess it's also your fault for getting punched by your partner, I mean, why are you dating him?
XD
Well, yes to both
@BuchitaBuchys So it's the victims fault they were raped? I mean, why would the let that person rape them?
You're acting as if I have control of other people's behaviors.
There's a reason why those girls are no longer my gfs.
Lol you're seriously going to compare your past relationships to rape? Broooo
@BuchitaBuchys No, I'm not comparing that, not everything is so literal.
I'm just saying that people can't control the behavior of others. You can say you want a girl that will actually be romantic, but if she doesn't want to do it, there's nothing you can do. You can't blame me for her not being romantic.
You went for her. If she didn't do anything to show she's romantic from the start, why did you continue dating them?
It's like girls who go for men who have proven to be cheaters. You knew that is how he was from the start, so why continue? You were expecting a change? Lol no.
@BuchitaBuchys That's why I didn't continue dating them and they're my exes XD (well, that's one of the reasons hahaha)
"Men have to do everything in relationship, from beginning to end. "
I stand by my statement. You're going for the wrong women
@BuchitaBuchys Or...
xD
Stagnate then
LOOOL
@Afrochick You're one of those girls I talked about? It's ok, you can always change.
@BuchitaBuchys We must be passing around the same women if all women aren't like this.
lol this threads interesting, Here comes the cooked poppcorn, Carry on , I'm just here to observe. :D
#stirthepot
@OrdinaryGentleman then stop going for them
"@BuchitaBuchys So it's my fault that those women acted that way? Nice hahahahhaha I guess it's also your fault for getting punched by your partner, I mean, why are you dating him?"
Damn, someone just got rektttttttt 😂😂
@YellowCactus how did I get rekt? You half brains have no good argument. Yes, it is your fault you go for shitty people. It's not your fault they treated you bad, but if you are with a girl who clearly shows no effort on her behalf from the get go, then don't act surprised if she never puts effort
@BuchitaBuchys Half brains? Chill girl xD
You chill
@BuchitaBuchys No! Don't chill, i will have bought all this popcorn for nothing. Continue both X'D
@OrdinaryGentleman go choke on coke :)
@BuchitaBuchys Whoa, we haven't even gotten past 1st base, least you could do is give me a reach around after making me do everything for you.
@OrdinaryGentleman huh? No Nintendo
@BuchitaBuchys Im saying you want to choke me sexually, and to go along the lines of this whole convo you will have me do everything for you, since i am a guy; and since i am a guy i put in more effort hence reach around
@OrdinaryGentleman I didn't say choke on a cock lol I said coke
@BuchitaBuchys I had no idea, i just assumed you had a penis
@OrdinaryGentleman I'm 2x the man you'll ever be, yes. But no, that's accomplished with just my vag :)
@BuchitaBuchys WTF is going on this thread, this got weird, real quick!
... she proclaimed herself to be a man apparently, and twice the man i am... whelp i have been sorely beaten back here, she sent dick pics to prove.
@BuchitaBuchys Totally uncalled for, I'd say get an extender but... those won't work for double penises.
@OrdinaryGentleman D:! SHe sent dick pics? now i need to exit this before it gets more weird.
@lacorine197 Yeah I would save yourself. I have to get therapy now because of her, what has been seen cannot be unseen.
@BuchitaBuchys Haha, you are funny.
" You half brains have no good argument."
He presented how women logic works so don't bash on people for telling truth because you will look even more stupid than usually.
"go choke on coke "
So Netflix and chill down at my house indeed.
"But no, that's accomplished with just my vag"
You see, that's why a dating world is not balanced. Since women have a vagina and decides who she will have sex with, it will never be balanced since the deciding factor in this case is always a woman who don't put effort simply because they think that having a vagina entitles them to a penis on a finger whistle WITHOUT putting any effort whatsoever. What they only need to do is seduce the poor guy and that's it. O_o...
@YellowCactus choosing to have sex isn't the same as choosing a relationship.
If you don't like women who expect so much without putting in their share of the effort , stop going for them. I feel no pity for y'all because you made the choice.
I'm gonna say men for the most part put in more effort. How many women want a man who doesn't do any thing? A man without a good job, education, little money, and who does nothing for her. I'm pretty sure that would be a single man. Then again if a woman is unattractive she is single no matter what she does.
Could you answer my question?
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2112691-was-i-wrong-to-ask-for-the-money-back
First off, I would say that as much as women put into looking good, they also put a lot into the emotional aspect of the relationship as well, men do a lot of grunt work, in theory are the primary financial contributor, and add logic and problem solving, however, I feel both sides actually over lap and to say one side contributes more is an error as I feel it can only be determined on a vase by case basis.
At the beginning of the relationship, , men put in way more effort. Technically all women have to do is say yes or no for most of the start of relationship. Usually once the relationship is solid, women tend to put in way more effort, I think by then most guys r exhausted and women are usually attached by that point.
I agree. Great point! I'm one to admit of being "exhausted". Feeling like some things in life, meeting the right woman is hard.
I'm not sure, but I think its the physical side thats the hardest to deal with. Woman may say they have it harder. I'd disagree... Only to say, because woman are beautiful. It's woman that tend to get up, and put themselves down constantly. Because there scrutinized by "society". How you should look. That's become a huge issue in regards to dating these days. Like how many dating sites are there now? One swipe to right or left?
Well, to the next swipe I guess...
@Gustafsone12584
Ya I think its hard for women to understand how hard it is to even approach them when we are attracted to them. We r constantly putting ourselves out there n lots of women reject amazing men that would of loved them for life n all for superficial reasons. In all honesty, it takes time to get to know someone. When u do fine the right woman for u, its usually always worth the wait. They say some women reject the right guys more often than some guys are rejected by the right girl.
Effort is the key word here, e. g.
many gals wanting to date routinely makeup & dress to attract the invitation, ergo the date gets much of the same; guys, not so much so date night is a bigger effort to look the part
take dancing as a date night bonus attraction - gals would take lessons and "built" (they say) to more naturally make those moves than guys, while a guy might do everything to avoid, then when first taking lessons might throw up; in the end, even if he begins to like his new prowess, is still responsible for leading & not screwing up on the dance floor, even if he has a lead weight in tow
more, upon request
Who puts me effort in a relationship is a case by case basis. In my last relationship I feel that I did; in my brothers relationship I think he does. Real effort in a relationship isn't paying for dates and doing your hair. It's trying to make things work, trying to make the other person happy, trying to be understanding and patient all the time. It's having the maturity to resolve conflict peacefully etc. that's just a case by case thing.
I voted for men on the notion that this referred to dating and relationships, and not every day life. In everyday life, it varies person to person but I believe on average that women work harder than men. With that said, men have a heck of a lot more expectations set for them when it comes to dating, relationships, and the events leading up to the relationship. Granted, the ideal relationship would be 50/50 but we know it's not the case every time. I think a better and more interesting question would be to ask who sacrifices more for a relationship.
Technically both should be putting in the same amount of effort. If one puts in more than the other than the relationship will never work as the one will get worn out trying to constantly please the other.
Men definitely when it comes to dating. I'm not even going to go into the education and how much income is required, or that women are more pickier with a large dating pool in general--especially in online dating.
But considering that men are still expected by so many women who play the feminist/"old fashioned" double standard crap in this 21st century to always go after a woman, woo her, plan, AND pay for the first couple of dates, definitely men.
In regards to looks.. You don't need to wear tons of make up to look pretty. Every one has to put effort in looking nice, including styling their hair, wearing good clothes, and having good hygiene. Same with behavior.
When the relationship is established, it can go either way and it depends on the individual. But men are definitely putting more effort into initiating the relationships right now.
Men. I'm sorry, but it's true.
In terms of initiating a relationship, the responsibility falls entirely on men. I don't really get it, I don't think it makes sense, and I don't think it's very fair.
I've never had a girlfriend, but I've asked out several girls. I've been turned down by every single one of them. If you've never been rejected before, or have never asked someone out before, I can't express to you the amount of courage it takes to even ask, and the amount of embarrassment that comes from being rejected. Men have a much bigger responsibility starting a relationship, and keeping it afloat. (Because women often think we don't appreciate them, when in reality, we're putting as much effort as we can into a relationship.) Like I said, I've never had a girlfriend, so I can't say this from personal experience, but I know it to be true based on what I've observed on both sides of other people's relationships.
You're only 18, but it's never too early to just say "fuck it" and find something else that you really enjoy doing. If a girl comes along and shares that interest, then approach. Even if she says no, then you can shrug it off and keep doing your thing because you were already happy without her. No big deal.
It depends on the relationship, but only in immature relationships that are about competition. When it's harder for either side its either because women think that they're being "persecuted" if their every whim, emotion, and contradictory standard isn't simultaneously being accommodated in every moment by a guy, or because the guy thinks he's being "used" just because he wanted to sit back and let the woman accommodate him since he's too tired and bitter from abuse at the hands of every girl he's ever dated. Basically, any time one of them thinks the give in the give and take stands for giving up their rights, they stop caring. Or any time one just accepts the other using them because they think its how it was designed to be. If a relationship is not equal, get out of it and into a healthier one, not a bitter state of mind that affects everyone else.
Isn't it a shame that this question even needs to be asked?
Maybe if more people were just upfront about things, we wouldn't have to.
I've seen it go both ways with different couples we have known. The women will likely say they have to look perfect, have the "right look" (what ever that is) for a particular guy, etc. . The guy is going to say he has to plan the outing, pay the money, furnish the transportation, etc.
One of the best dates I ever had was just to drive about 30 miles with my date to a rock shop and look at the handiwork of rockhound/hobbyists. I got a couple of pounds of "tumbling rough", tumbled it for a month or so and made a necklace for her , along with misc other items from the tumbled stones/minerals. But, the best part was just having a picnic and having some quiet alone time with her.
It's a mixed bag.
Appearance = women, by far.
Approaching = men, by far.
Attitude (I'm not sure I understand this one)
Manners = probably close to a tie. Women have to act lady-like, dudes have to act gentlemanly.
Education = well, more women than men go to college nowadays, so this one goes to the ladies.
Women don't have to act lady like. In fact progressives balk at the idea of men liking women who are feminine.
Education, firstly getting a degree in "lesbian dance theory" means jack shit, and there are an overabundance of women who get useless degrees. Nobody cares about your degree if you have nothing to show for it. Secondly, women largely do not "date down," so chances are the men they are pursuing are just as educated if not more than they are.
If you're gonna try and discredit non-STEM degrees (women do get STEM degrees too, for what it's worth) then you're talking to the wrong guy.
Obviously STEM isn't the end-all be-all of education, but there are an abundance of [near] useless degrees (English, Gender/Cultural Studies, Sociology, Psychology) that women like to gravitate to.
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