Should the guy pay on the first date? Please explain the reasons behind your answer?

[Anonymous]

This question is to both guys and girls.

And please don't say whoever asks should pay. It's a bullshit argument because it will almost always be the guy by default.

Yes, the guy should pay (explain why)

No, they should split the bill (explain why)

[random_girl95]

Split the bill. Because that's the most fair thing to do. Both of you ordered food so both you should pay.

[Asker]

Thanks for answering. I agree with you.

[EmmaMary]

Personally as far as I'm concerned it should be a 50/50 split, regardless as to who asked who.

[EmmaMary]

Thank you for the MHGirl.

[Asker]

You're welcome sis

[jennifer_bloom]

I think guys should pay if they can afford to.

[Anonymous]

It's 2022, but yet society, and women in particular, still expect men to be the ones to approach and ask women on dates. That's not an easy thing to do.

But it's a date and both people should enjoy their time together and enjoy each other's company. There is no valid reason in the world in 2022 that the expectation shouldn't be that the woman should pay her share... unless she sees herself an escort and thinks the guy should pay for the privilege of spending time with her.

It's time for women to show they ACTUALLY see themselves as equals and ACTUALLY want to get rid of traditional gender roles.

[Asker]

I agree with most of that.

[ohshee]

I can only speak for myself I just answered a question like this about guys wanting to date girls and they have no money if Cheapskates they're losers and they just want something for free anyway
Okay so I can only speak for myself let's pretend I asked you out we go and have dinner I asked you out that means I'm going to pay even if you ask me out I'm still going to pay because that's just who I am that's what I like that's my prerogative and that's what I'm going to do I don't care what we are doing where we are going I'm going to pay
It has nothing to do with anything except for that's who I choose to be that's who I am and I will continue to be that person I have never ever made a girl pay her half of something that just makes me feel like a cheapskate and I will never ever have a girl pay her half even saying those words pay you are half that makes no sense to me

[slatyb]

I always paid for the first date. I was usually the one making the invitation. When I dated another engineer we ended up splitting some things like hotel rooms. I don't remember how we handled restaurant meals. Probably we either took turns or split the check.

[Jendcheuebc]

I always expect the man to pay on the date.
Women already pay with all of the shit we do to get ready and look good for the date... it gets more expensive than a cheap cup of coffee, a drink, even a nice dinner!
I know I’ll get attacked for this but I won’t change my mind. I am the lady and you asked me out.
I only date rich men and you should too.

[jshm2]

No. the girl should pay, or split the bill as she's the one who needs the man.

[linka_pat307]

I think it depends (wen the gate plans the date , he pays and if we both decide to meet then we both pay )
Or if the guy runs out of money, then I will probably help finish the bill

[Asker]

We're talking about the first date here. Why should the person who plans to date pay? Serious question. What is the logic in that?

[linka_pat307]

He wanted to meet me and the other way around

[Anonymous]

Because a date does not mean prostitution. No point in spending money on a random stranger unless you both know you will be together. If not, then it's no different than throwing money away at any other random stranger. Imagine buying your boyfriend gifts and he dumps you to play with those gifts with his new girlfriend who didn't have to buy him anything

[bamesjond0069]

Depends. And i dont think they should split the bill. If im courting a broke woman, which for a traditional man like myself is ideal, i will gladly pay. If a career woman is courting me, she's got to win me over, she ought to pay.

[lofii]

Whoever asked who out should pay for the date.

Meaning if I asked her out, I pay for the date because I asked and vice versa if she asked me

[Anonymous]

Women have lost the entitlement and privilege of getting free stuff from men.
They wanted what they believed was “equality” and therefore they lose any benefits they had being female.

[Anonymous]

Now that it's 2022 with all the feminism and gender divide BS, 2 people should split the bill. That could change if 2 people become a couple in a relationship.

[Fromdusktilldawn]

There is no "should". He does as he thinks. If she insists on him paying, run!

[Guardian45]

Whoever asks the other first, should pay for the first date.

[BarryLiverstone]

Yes the guy should plan and pay for the first date. He should pay because he’s planning it and can better make financial decisions based on that plan.

[Asker]

So, because the guy is the one who has to put in all the effort and risk rejection, he should also be the one who has to pay? Um, okay.

And why should he be the one who should plan the date?

[BarryLiverstone]

You just said why. There is always a leader and a follower. You said the guy took the lead by putting in effort and risking rejection. Therefore he should be a leader and plan the date based on what he’s learned about her as well as it lets him pick a place he is comfortable in.

[BarryLiverstone]

by the way if you are worried about fair, assuming there is a 2nd date then she can choose to take the lead and plan the date and pay for it

[BarryLiverstone]

Another reason the guy should pay for the first date is that by default he will be the provider and protector in the relationship. Again that’s in general as in some relationships she can step into that role. But as he will be the provider he is showing her in one day/night how he can meet her needs and make her feel safe and cared for. Guys should want this opportunity to show that they have been listening to her and give her confidence he can be a leader in their relationship

[Asker]

Wow, lots of sexism in those responses. Thanks for explaining yourself..

[BarryLiverstone]

You are welcome. I did talk openly and would like you to openly reply and say how you feel about those points. Let me know what was sexist and how you would do things dif if you disagree at all

[Asker]

It's not about fairness, and the question was not about the second date. It's about equality and hypocrisy around traditional gender roles.

You assume there should be a leader and a follower, and you assume the leader should be the man. That's sexist. There is literally zero reason why there should be a leader and a follower on a date. It should be two people enjoying and getting to know each other. If both enjoy the dte equally, there is also zero justification why both shouldn't pay their share.

The man should be the provider and protector? Why? That is pure traditional gender role nonsense and pure sexism.

[BarryLiverstone]

First thank you for opening up a discussion and not framing this as a debate. I’ve seen too often here on gag how people want to debate and throw insults instead of honestly discussing ideas. So with that said I will reply.

Why in general is the man the protector? Well overall a man’s body is stronger than a woman’s body and when in danger he should protect her physically. Obv this goes beyond the first date but if on a rare occasion they are in danger he should put himself between her and the risk so that she is protected. Also based on personal experience if a woman feels unsafe and feels like she may be hurt then it’s nearly impossible for her to enjoy the date as you described. The guy who is able to do little things to create a sense of safety usually benefits as she can relax and not be so on alert. As I said originally this is all in general as there are times when the woman is stronger and she protects the man.

Yes there is a leader and a follower. There is a Ying and Yang in the universe. I do assume by default the man steps up to lead and you confirmed this by saying he takes the risk and makes the effort in your question. But obv there will be times during the date that she will take the lead. Tbh if the guy always must step up that’s not a balanced experience. But circling back yes one must lead and follow because decisions must be made: what time, where to meet, what to eat, what activities… all those decisions can’t be a completely shared collaboration and I suggested for the first date he makes them. Just because one person pays doesn’t mean they both can’t enjoy the date.

Equality comes with a longer term balance and can’t be so micro focused on just one date unless the goal is to end the relationship after one date. Most people have a first date with the intentions of having a 2nd and 3rd… it’s not sexist to suggest at various times in their relationship one person leads and the other follows

[BarryLiverstone]

Why are gender roles nonsense?

[Asker]

Okay, let's address the protector and provider thing, because that was the crux of your initial argument here. First, the concept of a man being a "protector" in a relationship with a woman is largely a thing of the past. As you said, there are rare occasions when a man may need to physically protect a woman, but they are just that... rare. And it certainly has no real relevance in the question of who should pay on a first date.

Regarding being a provider, again, the man being viewed as "the provider" is a thing of the past because we women are just as capable of earning money and covering our own expenses. Again, no relevance here in the question of who should pay.

I think you summed up your argument in that last sentence though. This question is ALL about traditional gender roles, and there is literally zero justifiable reason to argue today that women should not pay their share on a first date, regardless of who asks... unless, that is, you support traditional gender roles. And if you do support them, how can you support the concept of gender equality?

[BarryLiverstone]

Because I don’t just see relationships as one date. Would you want to share expenses on every date?

[BarryLiverstone]

I don’t believe that men equal women. I think we are different

[BarryLiverstone]

Watch this, Sarah makes a valid point: https://youtu.be/qXg_akLPq5o

[BarryLiverstone]

My question is why do you think the guy has to put in all the effort and risk rejection? Don’t you think that women risk and also put in effort?

[Asker]

You're doing a lot of deflecting from the real question here. You have given a lot of reasons to the question of why shouldn't a man pay for the first date, but no valid reasons why he should.

To your last question... the person who gets up the nerve to ask another person out risks rejection by doing so. Sure, the other person also puts in effort and takes risks, but that's true regardless of who pays. As a woman I am already at an advantage when a guys asks me out because I KNOW he's interested, obviously. Should we women ask men out more? Absolutely, but that's a question for a different day.

At the end of all of this, you still have yet to give a valid reason for why the man should pay.

[BarryLiverstone]

He should pay because he wants to treat her to a date. He wants to plan a good time and wants her to enjoy the date without worrying about paying for anything. As Sarah said if she pays she can eat Alone.

Also him paying shows he wants to date her for more than just sex. It shows he is investing in a longer term relationship. If a guy told his date he expects her to pay for her share that comes off a cheap and gives the impression he didn’t budget or value her

[Asker]

"As Sarah said if she pays she can eat Alone." Okay, now we're getting to the heart if it. With your statement here you are implying the only reason a woman would want to go on a date with a man is a free meal. I fucking resent that. Seriously, you sound like one of the women who give the rest of us a bad reputation.

"Also him paying shows he wants to date her for more than just sex." No, what it shows is exactly the opposite... that he EXPECTS sex in return. Her paying removes that expectation and allows the date to be on equal terms with no ulterior motives or expectations.

"If a guy told his date he expects her to pay for her share that comes off as cheap and gives the impression he didn’t budget or value her" Um... if a woman doesn't offer to pay her share it comes off a cheap and gives the impression SHE didn’t budget or value HIM.

Come on, can't you do any better than this? I mean seriously your arguments all sound like they are coming from a female's perspective. Are you really a male?

[BarryLiverstone]

- the Sarah part is a joke. If you actually resent a joke I don’t know what to say. Obv it’s rare for a woman to just want a free meal.

- nothing wrong with her offering to pay. I would just suggest she pays for the next date.

- of course there are motives for him to pay. Personally I don’t want sex for at least the first 90 days. The motive as I have already said is for another date and to build a relationship

- am I a male? Omg I’ll pull out my dick and show you!! (Another joke, not to be taken seriously. I’m not worried about you seeing me as a guy or not, I’m answering your question)

Let’s step back. I told you this isn’t a debate but it’s a discussion. So these are not arguments rather opinions. If you wanna win some debate ok, you win. Congrats to you.

One thing that may help here is to also let you know I don’t see the first time two strangers meet in pubic as a first date. Often times these days people meet irl after talking online and call it a first date. Nope that’s a meeting.. that is where both people pay. You asked about a first date and for me that’s when it’s a planned time to get together After that initial meeting. For the first meeting it could be coffee or a walk in the park. If there is a spark or a connection that’s when the guy (or girl) asks for a date.

[Asker]

I don't want to see your dick (or your vagina). If your personal goal is not to have sex for the first 90 days then you are certainly among a small minority of guys today.

OK, maybe I need to phrase the question differently for you. Answer this for me, straight up. Why should the expectation be that the man should pay for the first date? That IS the expectation today, as it has been forever, unchanged from the 50s. It's no different than the expectation that women should stay home and take care of the kids and house and cook dinner and make sandwiches. It's an outdated and sexist notion. Why would you support it? Please give me real and valid reasons.

Based on the poll results here, and my experience irl with both men and women, it is both a male and female problem, but sometimes it seems more men and I think often (maybe not in your case) it is rooted in expectations or at least hopes that we women don't usually want to support. So I don't know why there are still women who expect it.

[BarryLiverstone]

Straight up the guy should pay for the first date because he plans it and can decide on how much everything costs. He can choose a cheap meal or something lavish. He can choose how to treat her.. I wouldn’t expect to be invited to an expensive ballgame and once there the person who invited me tells me the cost of the ticket and expects me to pay on the spot. Please stop linking this to women making sandwiches because that’s not the case.

[BarryLiverstone]

by the way my goal in dating is to find someone to marry. If you say the minority of men want to wait 90 days for sex then perhaps you think most are not ready for a longterm relationship

[BarryLiverstone]

Finally if I went on a first date, she offered to pay and I said she could pay for the next one and she said she would like to pay her share then obv she can pay.

[Asker]

Thanks for the additional evasion and deflection. That'll do.

[BarryLiverstone]

Thank you for not continuing

[TheUniqueOne96]

Split, with each person paying for their own meal.

[In_Trance]

Whoever asks for the date should be prepared to pay

[Asker]

Why, exactly?

[JesseJayNeak]

We’re in the 2020s, not the 1800s going on

[northerngal]

The person who asks for the date should pay.

[northerngal]

And its not a BS argument at all. Its common sense.

[Asker]

No, "common sense" is not a valid argument. Provide justification for WHY you think it's common sense. Provide justification for why the person who risks rejection and goes to all the effort should also have to pay when it's a date that both people should enjoy equally. Sounds more like entitlement to me.

[northerngal]

Why should the man always be expected to pay? If I ask a man out for an evening I will happily pay. I would expect the same from a man who asks me out. There is not entitlement whats so ever.

[Asker]

We're talking about the first date here, and 99% of the time it's the guy who asks the woman out, so you're saying 99% of the time the guy should pay.

Of course it's entitlement and it gives all of us women a bad rep.