I warn them ahead before going on a date. That's how i screen out those, who use men for free stuff. I think their true colors are showing. What is wrong with these little girls? Are they mad, that i am not opening my wallet for them?
Updates
+1 y
What type of degenerates think its their business to insult those with values different from their own? I consider them hostiles.
Why do women get mad at me and call me a cheapskate when I tell them we'll split the bill?
Maybe they feel they've wasted their time? I'd totally accept if a man wanted to split a bill at a date but that would mean he's not a relationship material, and we say our goodbyes as friends. You split the bill with friends. It also depends who invites whom, if you invite them and expect them to pay... well it's just not good manners. Take her somewhere cheap like a coffee shop, surely you can afford $5-10? Literary most of my first dates were just getting me a cup of coffee and going for a walk, if a guy doesn't have the means or the gesture to do as much then we clearly have different expectations from life and from each other. And if you like each other then she will eventually invite you and then cover the bill. Majority of women expect a man who CAN be a provider regardless if they need one or not. They want a husband and a father for their children and at one point they'll be completely reliant on you (when they're pregnant and nursing)... they want to feel like the man they're with is taking care of them. If that's not what you want then that's totally fine. But it just means you're after a different type of girl... maybe what you want is a feminist and in that case you're in luck because there's more and more of them. You're right in being upfront with them about it though and you're right about being confused about their behaviour if you told them before the date. It's just that your attitude is rather uncommon for a man... also, splitting a bill at a restaurant and calculating who needs to pay how much can be awkward. In my close group of friends we don't even do that, one person pays and then we send them the money so maybe they feel embarassed?
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I don’t know what is wrong with so many women who feel entitled and spoiled. It’s nice you tell them ahead of time, I’d appreciate that if I was them. I’m a very proud woman, personally I like to pay for my stuff if I go on a date, with friends, family or whatever. I don’t like the idea that someone in the future will say they paid for my stuff especially if I know I can pay it myself and avoid that uncomfortable situation. If I can’t pay, I just don’t go anywhere…I don’t care if people call me proud for acting like that, but I rather not put myself in an uncomfortable situation 🤷🏻♀️ Women like that though, they think that by investing on their expensive make up and clothes, they act like if they are doing men a favor and they should be the ones paying. WRONG!
Honestly I would be tempted to split the bill on first dates regardless.
Paying for food you eat is the default. If she expects that she shouldn't have to pay for the food she bought, she is the one infusing a potential conflict. If you offer to pay, you are the one doing something special.
If she is offended by this, it is telling about how your relationship would go. If she loses her job, she'll expect you to pay for her, which isn't unreasonable. But if you lose a job, not only would she not reciprocate support, she might consider you "useless" as a man. Certainly not always this drastic, but her response definitely says which way she will lean.
Women, if you are bothered by assumptions like this one, then the solution is simple. Expect to pay for your own food and don't act as if it's some slight that you had to pay like an adult. Most women I've dated have been normal adults like this. It's the easiest red flag to avoid. And yes that red flag is on you, not him for simply paying for HIS own meal.
But again, most girls I've dated were NOT like this. But I guess I've usually been able to spot preliminary red flags beforehand. But like, just remember that MOST GIRLS ARE SANE. And if she isn't, it's best to dodge that bullet rather than reward it with attention. Save it for the cool girls.
But yeah, normal adult paying has long been the norm in Northern Europe. (There's a reason we call it "Going Dutch".) I feel like the US is probably too scarce and thirsty to put their foot down on things.
I would be inclined to pay for the first date mostly to show I have regard & interest in her. If she is equally interested then I expect her to quickly go into splitting the bill.
However I would also be conscious my dollars aren't her dollars. I'm a high income earner and most girls I am interested in will earn much less. She might be working for tips mostly. What it comes down to is discretionary income. She might be meeting living expenses plus a bit whilst I am meeting living expenses plus a lot more.
If she is a worthwhile girl she will offer to pay and I will engineer it that she pays for what I think she can afford eg shout me a pizza and I will pay for what I know she can't afford but I want to do with her. If I like a girl I always want to take her to a restaurant at the top of a local skyscraper because I like taking girls I feel affection for there
I'm never going to think a girl is worth what she earns, is the net summary. If all goes well, we have a future and yes I'll be paying for most of it. Yes I know I am exposed but we carefully assess those we wife.
Now the exact inverse applies too. And if incomes are equal than exact bill splitting is in order but don't spring it on her as a surprise at the end is all I would suggest. If she is a lawyer girl than she should pay more.
Mostly what I am saying is it can be - and should be - more nuanced at times.
If the guy says hey we’re splitting the bill, I won’t have a problem with that. As long as the chemistry is there, and first date went well, we might have a second one ☝️
90% of first dates don't end in a second date under normal conditions... so the harder you make it on yourself the less likely your going to get to 2nd date.
Not @Pinay_ako said she would not be offended "IF", and that's a big IF. She also would probably appreciate a guy more for just paying because he did ask her out.
It shows that you have a low and distrustful opinion of women. You are not a gentleman. Heaven forbid that you spend a couple bucks on a date. "I had a great time, but payed $20 for her meal. She took advantage of me! 😭"
Why would any woman want to go out with a guy like that? They already know all they need to know about your attitudes and what kind of partner you would be. Suspicious, cheap, materialistic.
I'll bet they don't even get mad. They probably laugh, say "Thanks for the heads up", and delete your contact information.
Funny thing. Girls like grown men who treat them like ladies, respect them, and are happy that she accepted his request to go on a date to get to know each other. You act like they are the ones who should be grateful.
Do you think that you are always entitled to an equal quid pro quo? Have you given someone a gift without expectation of one of equal monetary value. Have ever picked up the tab when drinking or dining with friends?
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
[TLDR: it's customary for a guy to pay to demonstrate his ability to provide, but this is Tradition. If she has no intention of being traditional, or even a decent person, then it's wasted effort. Men split it when you don't see any connection with their date]
I was once asked on a date by a Canadian woman who was as stereotypical as possible. Even though she asked me out, I paid for the the activity she suggested (ice skating), but all she did on the date was talk radical politics and express elitist viewpoints... she even expressed her hatred for British history and museums... and at lunch she even asked me what I thought about the male gaze...
Her being overly critical of men in general was the last red flag, no matter what I did she judged all men as a collective group; so when it came to the bill I asked to it, first she said yes, but then she asked if I was sure (Yes. I saw no future with this desperate judgmental person who approached me on a bus).
For the girl I love I would gladly pay the bill to demonstrate my ability to provide, but not for someone who is looking to take advantage of people and look down on them.
weird thing was, she wanted a 2nd date but I wanted nothing to do with her. Be careful guys, know when to walk away from an obviously toxic person before they can hurt you.
That was one live health hazard. Just ew. Reminds me of somebodies i know, who i keep my distance and my mouth shut. They are like another type of health hazards like smokers.
I think this might have to do with a difference of values. It doesn't mean a person is "cheap" or that the other is a "user" but rather they have differing views on dating.
I prefer that a man offer to pay on the first date. It makes me feel that the man is generous and it feels like a kind gesture. It's like a show of good faith. For my part I usually wear something nice and take the time to look good. I also take time to vet someone before I agree to a date, so it's nice when they offer to pay for the date.
I'm by no means looking for free food or stuff. I actually have a decent job and am very capable of buying my own meal. I value my time so I'd rather be with my friends than on a date just for the food. If I don't plan on ever seeing the guy again then I'm more than happy to split the bill.
It depends where you ask them to go on the "first date". Personally, I think leading with " I just want you to know that we have to split the bill" is a loser move, and it shows that you are indeed a miser.
Ask her out for coffee, or a drink, not lunch or dinner, the first time. This may seem difficult to believe, but 99% of women in your current age group are supporting themselves and aren't looking for a "free Starbucks coffee or a free happy hour cocktail."!!! If you're too damn cheap to pick up the tab for that, you wouldn't be worth my time if I were the girl, ESPECIALLY if YOU asked me out!!
I had to look up at your age. This is the sort of crap an 18 year old says and does. Next thing you'll be saying is "you're a simp if you pay for that $4 latte!!"
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Asker
+1 y
How many onlyfans subscriptions do you have active at the moment? Can you count them on both hands?
Yes, I can count them on no hands. I have none. How many times have you been butt hurt or rejected by women? Need all your digits? Dispensing with the jabs, the point is you ARE a cheap skate. Do women get "mad" or angry at your approach? Some might agree, but those don't are probably not going to get "angry" at it, but they will be thinking something!!
I think a woman who expects a man to always pay is a user. However, keep in mind that even a woman who is happy to go 50:50 might sometimes want the guy to pay. I split things 50:50 almost always and in my current relationship I split things 90:10 as I outearn my partner a 5-fold. However, very occasionally, including the very first date, I want the guy to offer to pay. I might not accept it but I like it when he offers. I think of it as 'playing house', occasionally it's nice to role play an old traditional date. It's sort of romantic. So just watch out for woman like me as they might find it a bit too defensive if you outright refuse to ever cover the bill, their intentions are only sexual/romantic and they are not using you for money.
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Asker
+1 y
I dont mind sometimes buying something for a girlfriend. However i need to screen out the users, who take advantage of men, who gladly open their wallets on the same day they exchanged what their names are.
Women who won't split the bill are holding themselves back. When you understand the history of how it came to be, you want nothing to do with that kind of bullshit.
Go back a couple of hundred years. Women couldn't own property, have their own money, get work or freely go about their business. If there was going to be any kind of dating men had to pay the bill. It was a kind of servitude leaving women beholden to men. In essence women were property to be traded to other families as breeding stock.
Cut to now. I earn my money and any man thinking it's a nice gesture to pay for me, then I want no part of it. I'm nobodies property and not there to be bought.
But in my opinion if it's a first date he needs to at least offer. It shows his character as a man. The asker of this question is the type of man that will leave u high and dry during your time of need.
If a woman works, cooks, cleans, has kids, and pays for everything... what does she need a man for again?
Your opinion wasn't asked. It shows nothing of a man's character only his bank balance.
If you cling to old ways that subjugate you, then you'll always on some level be someone else's property they bought and paid for. Until you start to act independently you'll never be equal in a relationship, just partner of someone.
If u start your reply with "no one asked u" then I struck a nerve. Your wrong and you're being a pick me.
No one said anything about being someone's property. Learn to comprehend what u read.
What I'm saying is, atp in society a woman can completely provide for herself and even go to a sperm bank if she wants kids. So no woman NEEDS a man in 2022.
These men think they're a prize while not even wanting to pay $30 for a date? Lmao a joke! They want sex but don't want to work for it.
by the way sex is way more of a risk for a woman simply because she can get pregnant, and child birth is extremely dangerous and can even result in death. Everytime a woman has sex she risk her life, literally. To a man it's all fun and games, but women sadly don't have that freedom.
So.. why would any intelligent woman risk her fucking life for a dude who won't even pay for a date? That's idiotic pick me behavior.
Where I live splitting would be absolutely expected. That expectation means that if you do cover the cost, it becomes an actual pleasant gesture rather than meeting a requirement.
I do believe that conveying it beforehand is good. Especially if you are taking them out as they will lack a degree of choice.
Now, women in the early 20s at least here on average earn more than men. This changes in the mid 20s and changes significantly in the early 30s. However an expectation that one person with an equal income should pay for another is rather insane. This tradition, while quite classy, does stem from the expectation that said woman would have no income at all of her own - and even then the family would be expected to send with her enough to cover her half in case.
If both of you were in agreement that would be the arrangement for the date, they definitely should not be angry. But look at it this way, they showed you what they were all about.
That said, if you invite them out on a date, you should generally pay for everything. One advantage of doing that is that you see what she orders and what she has you pay for. That doesn't mean she'll tip her hand as to her expectations and spending habits in a relationship, but if she does order something really expensive, it's very informative.
So honestly if you don't want to pay for the date don't ask women out to dinner, coffee or drinks. Ask out for a walking the park or something cheap especially if its a frist date... don't do dinner. I do park, zoo, tea garden, out door market, concert a festival.
But if its a first date and you asked her out you should expect to pay or not go.
The girls who say that may be looking for a guy who can demonstrate his ability to provide and his generosity. Some women may be looking for a free meal and guilt trip you if you don't give it. A better strategy is to be willing to always pay the whole bill then find out what type of girl she is later.
Because they’re entitled. The infuriating part is that whenever a woman thinks she’s entitled to anything from a man, society condones it. However, whenever a man thinks he’s entitled to anything from a woman, society condemns it. This is the “patriarchy” mind you. Ell oh ell!
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Asker
+1 y
The male counterpart are those, who think women owe them sex. Especially after he paid.
I don’t like it when a guy covers all the costs of dates, or buys me lots of gifts. Makes me feel like they’re trying to make me owe them sex/intimacy or control me. I’d much rather split everything 50/50.
I also don’t go out for dinner or lunch on first dates. Always just coffee or something small from a cafe. Because usually first dates are a waste of time, and if it goes badly, then neither of us want to be paying for big meals. Dinner or lunch is second date material.
Many of them are in it for free stuff and if you want things to be fair, even just at the start they will often get angry. Most of them actually hate equal/fair treatment. they just want privileged treatment.
It is good to say it up front though so you don't waste your time with someone looking to use you.
Such women are mad about themselves: they find out that they did not listen, and now regret to have ordered that caviar, that original champagne, and that truffles dessert :)
Personally, I (used to) arrange a first date only once I had a better picture about the girl. So it simply never happened to me to get ''exploited'' - in which case each time (but once) I had no issues with paying all the bill.
I would never go on a first date anywhere that required me or her to spend money. Go for a walk and sit at the park. At most you can buy a coffee. Don't spend more than that on her. You don't know if she is worth your time or money yet.
But, if all you care about is getting laid, then sure, take her to dinner.
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Asker
+1 y
If all i care about is getting laid, i know places where i can get laid 100% for a price.
Just go to simple place if you like her don't ask for split 10-15$ no more for first date McDonald's not that bad or the beach and drink that's all don't go for something fancy some woman will eat your food and take your time and then she might get another date from Snapchat it's weird time we are not in the 70s nor 80s not even the 90s modern woman are just different than back then woman social media are on their sides too imagine how many dm they have
LOL. What it shows is that your are miserly and ungenerous, carefully keeping score in life lest you somehow get a wee bit less than you give. You will end up in a with a woman who will expect something in return every time you have sex.
My rule has ALWAYS been that the first date we go "dutch". We each pay for our own stuff. That way if it doesn't work out no one is "out" anything. The man doesn't always have to pay... I have my own $$$
Depends on how you say it. I personally don't have a problem for paying for the whole dinner. Split up is the way to go for many women.
But if you imply that I'm a gold digger, which your question details do, then yeah — any woman would be pissed. It means you are arrogant enough to think that women would chase you for your hot wallet.
Hint : they won't.
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8 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Did you see the other opinions here?
Opinion Owner
+1 y
The way you've worded it out, yes that's what you get
Asker
+1 y
Gold diggers can move along and find themselves a sugar daddy.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
In what universe your words are not offensive?
Asker
+1 y
Offensive is relative. As is everything else.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Says the offender
Asker
+1 y
Right. I suppose you consider all men to be rapists because men are looking at women. Stay safe.
If a woman planned this in her head... and she feels special... and you do that then you blew up a potential who was imaging the possibility already. She's not special OR even regular after all. It's damn Stupid...
Yeah, fair enough. Some of them act like we aren't allowed to have standards but its good to see there are many adequate ladies still. I know of ways ( other than sex) to make girls happy. Kinda wish you could see how i do it.
Ultimately it's because women aren't with men for who they are, but what they can provide... and you aren't providing a free meal...
When a woman is attracted to a man enough, she won't even feel the need to date. She will be with him at his convenience anywhere... generally dating is for the men she finds less attractive where he either needs to warm her up, prove himself, or she will just use him for a free meal. There are exceptions of course...
It's been like that for a long time.. this needs to change, if they want equality then they gotta want it all the time in every different situation.. There's nothing wrong with you, you don't have to pay for them just because they have different genitals than yours! 🤷🏻♂️
@asker Do you tell them at the time you ask them out that you expect them to split the bill? Or do wait for the bill to come to the table and just spring it on her?
I find it mind boggling that some guys don't realise how wrong it is to tell a woman, "we will split the bill." If you ever split a bill on a date, it should be the woman's suggestion. Not a mans
I prefer dutch on a first date because from experience if he pays he expects "dessert" as theyve called it and I'm not a dinner hooker
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
I prefer it your way as well. These degenerates have their own degenerate definitions, that i refuse to recognize. So for me that means dessert is dessert, not sex.
I would say if you ask someone out you foot the bill. However if someone is gonna get very mad at you over it and insult you, thats them showing their true colors so good on you for dodging bullets.
you're weeding out some trash for sure but also weeding out every single respectable woman. No woman worth a damn would split the bill. Just like no woman worth a damn would give her number out at a bar.
Their acting entitled because there used to guys paying for everything. It's not like you didn't tell them. You said something ahead of time and they still went on the date. It's okay to do that.
Common reaction for a gold digger her money is her money your money is her money equal rights fine as long as their equal but take a closer look equal rights means every is in their favor Take a closer look
Because you what women call a dinner date. She's broke and basically using you for free food. Calling them out on thier bullshit always makes women mad.
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