Who has a harder time apologizing to someone when they are wrong just for general principle (and not for what’s in it for them)?

[Anonymous]

Not too long ago I went on date for the hell of it with a young woman I had very little physical attraction for. But I treated her well, bought her drinks, engaged in a good conversation and even drove her back to her place.

After some discussion she made a very insulting comment about my haircut a few moments after I dropped her off. Taken aback and pissed off I just said “well fuck you & have a good night” and left. I did nothing to provoke her. I didn’t hit on her.

The next day I sent her a DM saying “that haircut comment was mean”. She responded “you know what you are completely right. You did absolutely nothing to deserve it. I don’t know what the hell is wrong with me”. She then proceeded to literally beg to me (not exaggerating) to go on a second date. She kept going off on how cute I was & everything else.

I told her I felt better that she apologized but I declined. I wished her the best.

I later asked myself (and should have asked her) would she have apologized if she did not find me attractive? I highly doubt it. Her apology wasn’t truly genuine because there was still something in it for her.

The world isn’t fair. It’s obviously easier to mistreat people who are of little or no value to you. It’s like seeing a homeless person. There is virtually nothing they can do for you (and they can be annoying or even dangerous). But would you do something nice for them and do it discreetly (not for optics)?

It is just in my experience especially with dating is that women have a harder time respecting men they don’t find value in.

To a limited extent I can understand they don’t want to give the guy the wrong idea. But once a woman determines a man is of little use to her she feels like it’s okay to disrespect him much more then vice versa

I have been in the reverse position a few times. I won’t bend over backwards for those women. But I won’t ghost or disrespect them either. I will politely turn them down.

Women

Men

Updates

1 mo

The deeper question is understanding GENERAL principle. People pleasers really over-apologize out of fear and optics. They seem nice but their “pleasing” behavior is actually extremely self serving. Actually worse in many ways because it’s often disingenuous.

When no one is watching they will be just as selfish as any other conceited asshole.

Call me sexist all your want. But I truly believe women have a much harder time understanding exactly what general principle is.

Updates

1 mo

It takes mental effort to remove what or what not someone else can do for you when judging. It takes even more mental effort to try to understand their situation when they are the opposite gender.

I will never fully understand women. But I do know unattractive women (and men) still have to get out of bed and face the day. And life isn’t easy for them. I can have empathy for that and treat them respectfully without giving them the wrong idea (or over inconveniencing myself).

[runitupkai]

If we are going, to be honest, knowing how girls are especially the kids and adults I see nowadays if you're treating them right and you're not in their "standards" you could be a really cute guy and they would still treat you like shit, say things about you and not apologize or they would and the apology wouldn't even be sincere. She apologized because she knew she was in the wrong, but to blatantly just say your haircut sucks? That's rude as hell, she could have just kept it to herself. To beg someone after you insult them to come back and let's have a 2nd date is absurd. If a guy did that to them (not saying all girls do this) they would shrug it off, saying oh he's joking, when sometimes they aren't at all. I think you did the right thing. Some female adults act like kids these days or are just rude for no reason at all. Coming from my experience of girls and guys pulling this shitty move and manipulating the person into doing a 2nd chance pisses me off truly. I apologize and I forgive the person but... depending on how bad it was? I would call it off, either we stay friends or never talk again.

[Anonymous]

I grew up being a people pleaser so I’m very accustomed to apologizing first (sometimes when I’m not even in the wrong, working on it…). But in my personal experience, in every single one of my relationships, I rarely ever get an apology from my boyfriend/exes, I was always the one that apologized first.

[Asker]

Not saying men can’t be stubborn and conceited.

But notice how you said “I was raised to be a people pleaser”. Well I was too by my a mother who was obsessed about her IMAGE in front of other people. She was paranoid about OPTICS.

Is that genuine? No. And people can eventually pick up on that as disingenuous. And deep down they question if the person would really be nice/apologetic if they had nothing to offer them. That’s the difference.

Being respectful to people is actually a much deeper feeling human empathy. It’s the ability to remove yourself from the scenario and be able to understand their scenario.

If you can do that you will have better judgment. You will be nice when it’s necessary but also give tough love when it’s necessary. Because tough love never feels good to the person delivering it. It’s actually painfully thoughtful.

It’s actually hard for them to tell someone else the hard truth. But it cuts deeper because the other person realizes that.

Anyway I believe woman have a much harder time understanding this concept. Reason being there was a time in history where women had to be selfish for survival reasons. But they also had to conform to societal expectations for survival reasons so optics is a much bigger deal to them.

[Opinion Owner]

I understand where you’re coming from. I just wanted to point out that I was indeed raised as a people pleaser but I’ve since went to therapy for it and I’m outgrowing the tendency to over apologize. But on the other hand, it has helped me to learn to take accountability for my mistakes and apologize for it (if necessary).

I self reflect a lot (thanks to being a past people pleaser lol) and I take pride in my self awareness. When I do make mistakes, my boyfriend will point it out to me and I’ll have a much easier time processing it so that I can see things from his pov. I can then swallow my ego and apologize, I’ll also do better the next time around. I’m aware that in general women probably has a harder time apologizing but in my case it’s been the opposite lol

[Asker]

You hit it right on the nail above ^^^^. Excellent. Outstanding feedback above. You really increased my faith in woman today lol. You get what I am talking about.

By the way I too had to get counseling for similar issues. Also nice guys actually have absolutely horrible ego problems. I never understood that but I do now.

Nice guys most often raised by constraining parents who told us “anger is bad and dangerous” for men. So we never found a healthy way to express our negative emotions. Also our egos make us ignore red flags in people especially women.

We want to lie to ourselves and ignore thinking “oh it can’t be possible she really has no respect for me. That’s just shit testing and I will ignore it”. That’s actually a horrible ego problem.

Growing up I wasn’t able to understand the difference between a woman who is being a woman (shit testing) vs having no respect for me. I didn’t want to believe the latter could be possible so I would ignore the ugly truth out of ego. This is because I had “chivalry” pounded into my head since I was a young boy. My mothers favorite one liner was “don’t make a scene!”

Anyway good conversation. Truth is I got a deep seated issue over what one particular ex said to me years ago. She over apologized when we dated. But a few weeks after we broke up she gave me one of the most malicious insults I’ve ever taken from a woman in my life. Haunted me for years.

I will never get an apology or closure for that because at that point she determined I was no longer of any value to her.

Ironically people who “love bomb” are actually more prone to acting this way once they determine the fantasy they had in their minds isn’t reality.

[ManOnFire]

You were very fortunate for her to apologize and realize she was a dickhead. Most women don't want to respect men's feelings and feel like a guy is being a baby because he doesn't want to take that kind of shit.

"But once a woman determines a man is of little use to her she feels like it’s okay to disrespect him much more then vice versa" - this is miles of truth here. She will also disrespect him if she doesn't find him physically attractive, even if he isn't a bad guy at all. Women are more visual than men and base a lot of their choices on how they are going to look with someone, or how they look with her. Hence their concern with imageband status in men.

[Asker]

She was an angry fat girl. But she had a rare moment when a viable man gave her genuine (although non sexual) attention. The next day she woke up and it dawned on her she just destroyed a (in her mind a potential) opportunity.

So of course she would apologized because there was still something in it for her. She really did beg me to reconsider.

I still felt better she apologized though. Even though there was an agenda behind it. What she said was 100% uncalled for and nasty. Worse then a middle schooler.

[ManOnFire]

Ahh so it was really just about opportunity for her. Yeah, that's a woman for ya.

[Asker]

Just to play devil’s advocate here there are unfortunately men out there who won’t take “no” for an answer.

But the problem is most women (not all though) don’t know how to give direct yet considerate rejections to men. They either are too wishy washy or they are very bitchy about it.

They have a hard time staying calm, respectful yet direct with men. It takes too much mental effort to do that.

[WhitneySnow]

She apologized to you because she liked you and she felt bad about hurting your feelings. Nothing wrong with that.

[Asker]

Right. She did the right thing. What she said was very nasty.

But the question is this: would she had apologized if everything went down exactly the same BUT she didn’t find me attractive? I highly doubt it.

She apologized because there was still something in it for her. Better then no apology at all. But again it’s only because she still hoped for a second date.

It an issue of general principle. In my experience women are much nastier to men they find no value. Men on are more expected to respect ALL women regardless if they are of value to us or not.

[WhitneySnow]

I think that’s a little harsh. I’m not like that. Neither are most of my friends.

[Asker]

The weird thing is teen girls your age are actually more fair minded.

Something happens to women when they get in their early 20s (this girl was around 23 at the time). They either get burned by a few assholes and hold a grudge against all men and/or they discover the full power of their sexuality. Many of them are being indoctrinated in feminism in college.

Anyway I like to see how you act 4+ years from now.

[Dongie]

The female is a very prideful being. Not low blowing ladies just the facts.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Men will say women and women will say men.

[Asker]

Yeah it’s very hard not to have any bias in this.

I will say this though. There is an expectation placed on men to be respectful to ALL women regardless if they are of value to us or not. In fact that’s exactly actually the crux of all feminism.

Women on the other hand will only have that same outlook to men if 1) they were raised to respect me and/or 2) they are naturally a decent people.

Some women are still number 2s. But fewer women are being raised to respect men nowadays. In fact it’s the opposite.

[Nikki1989]

Men tend to be the most stubborn.

[Asker]

Well obliviously you and I are going to have bias viewpoints given different life experiences.

But again how do you treat a man who has nothing to offer you? Especially when he’s interested and you’re not?

I tend to treat all women kindly if I’m attracted to them or not (unless they give me a reason not to). And not just giving attention to an unattractive woman is “disrespecting” her. Not acknowledging her when she says hello could be rude, yes. But just not checking her out and giving her attention when didn’t say anything first is “rude”. No. I don’t get “offended” when a girl I like doesn’t notice me. Disappointed maybe. But I don’t hold it against her either.

But again I won’t be rude to a woman just because I don’t find her attractive. This includes scenarios when they are obviously interested in me (and not aggressive about it). This also includes scenarios where the woman has absolutely nothing else to offer me. That girl I went out on a date with had absolutely nothing to offer beyond an (initially) pleasant conversation.

However I truly believe that is less true vice versa. Women at best don’t want to give a man any false hope. But men are expendable in a general sense.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Women tend to be the most stubborn

[Asker]

@Aiko_E_Lara I find they either over apologize or under apologize. They are more likely to believe admitting fault = admitting defeat.

[Dongie]

Naturally as we have fought the elements, the wilds and each other. Never surrender.

[Vegasrunner]

This entire story is false.

[Asker]

So I’m a liar huh?

[Asker]

Yeah most of them.

[Vegasrunner]

@Asker I don't know about that but this story is not true

[Asker]

So you think I made the whole thing up to be a troll or something? Well I didn’t. This really did happen. But believe what you want.

You probably think no guy would waste his time/money on a girl he’s not physically interested in. Well sometimes people do random acts of kindness just because they feel like it. No agenda other just feeling good about boosting someone’s day.

But I’m guessing you probably have never been like that in your entire life.

[Vegasrunner]

@Asker TBH most likely you're a female posing as a man.

1. Men don't go on dates w/ women they aren't attracted to but women do.
2. They type of guy that would randomly spend money on a woman expecting nothing in return isn't the kind of guy that would tell a girl to get tje "F" out of his car
3. Attractive Women never apologize to men about their mistakes.
4. They certainly don't apologize and then beg the same man to go out again.

[Dongie]

A nice lean goodlooking kid dated a great niece in college and she was very smart all 350 lbs of her. She broke up with him after losing a couple dozen lbs. Thought she could do better. She hasn't yet. But the point is the lad was a rare one. He took to her for personality attraction.

[LimitedBenefits101]

Women.