If your children grew up to be atheists, you should be proud, not only that they had the courage of their convictions, but also that you had raised people who were able to throw offbyears of indoctrination to become freethinking intelligent adults.
However: if my spouse wanted them to go or to be raised in a religion, I would let them take over with the caveat that the child would no longer have to go if they decided that religion was not for them.
@Katy16 So you're telling idealogical indoctrination of a human being who does not yet have the mental maturity to make his/her own decision is not child abuse?
Hmm @Katy16 What about God and his wrath What about the implicit sense of guilt that's cultivated when u do not act 'morally' What about the diminishing sense of independent thinking
@ClauseViter yes his wrath is a part of it, and that's still taught amd as the kids grow they can start to understand more and more.
I don't see this as an issue. You just pray and try and figure out what to do.
I do not believe you lose independent thinking, I've grown up in church and so have many if my friends and we all still have our own opinions. I don't actually fully agree on certain things with my pastor so my independent thinking is fine.
Because you can have subjective feelings on an objective dogma it seems logical that the whole belief system is subjective.
The history of christianity does not even involve truth. It is a story n allegory, a mythology if you will. It describes the widening gap between a 'mental' reality and a 'physical' reality. The eternal kingdom of God versus the temporal existence on earth. Unfortunately this literature requires formal investigation, but it has been used a subjective agenda to justify right action, it is a source of guilt, it the primary reason for the division of people n the condemnation of others.
@Katy16 Still have independent opinions. Yes. The notion that god is infallible , everything he does is right is a very constructive environment that foster independent thought.
Why is that not an independent opinion? As stated I think for myself fine and will encourage my children to, I was not only taught about God, I was taught to question everything. I still do that and then look for my answers
@Katy16 with the final answer being god is right or "god works in mysterious ways" , that's not called independent thought , that's called cherry picking evidence to support the answer your want instead of the actual answer.
@Katy16 Which is in the minority , indoctrination success rate is not 100% but it is without doubt that it does has a large influence on someone's decision especially when they are little kids. Referencing The 1961 Bobo Doll experiment , children often interact with others in a manner that's modelled for them by adults with parents having an especial influence on them. In other words while it is true that children may still have an amount of autonomy and freewill towards what to believe in , that amount is statistically insignificant. Fuck , I'm arguing with people on the internet again.
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Yes, until they are 18 they are going.
I don't now what you consider a kid though in this question
I was forced until I rebelled at around 13 and all hell broke loose (no pun intended). And, no, I wouldn't force kids because I'm not religious.
If my children became atheists I'd feel as though I've failed as a parent.
But no, if they don't want to go I wouldn't force them.
If your children grew up to be atheists, you should be proud, not only that they had the courage of their convictions, but also that you had raised people who were able to throw offbyears of indoctrination to become freethinking intelligent adults.
@Intraluminal that's if I indoctrinated them which I don't plan to.
if they were super young... yup. there was a lot i said no to as a kid just because i could.
I intend to raise my kids godless and areligious.
Hail Satan.
nah, "forcing" a kid sounds violent and i wouldn't make them go alone cuz i don't go to church
I'm not religious myself so I wouldn't force my child to do something that I myself abhor.
However: if my spouse wanted them to go or to be raised in a religion, I would let them take over with the caveat that the child would no longer have to go if they decided that religion was not for them.
I'm a preachers kid and was forced to go. I never forced mine to go
No, and I wouldn't force them to go to CCD (religious education for Catholics) either like my parents did.
Yeah. Of nobody forced me, id never go to church lol.
When they are kids, yes. When they come of age, its their decision.
Not only would I not force them to go to church, I wouldn't even allow them to. And I'm a dedicated Christian
i would introduce them to the idea and let them decide.
No, because I'm an atheist. I find religion to be hateful and judgement.
I'll go. If they want to come then invitation is open. If not, then we'll make other arrangements.
no, I am atheist and my mom forces me to believe in god it is not cool
If I am going they are until they can be left alone.
I don't go to the yawnfest that is 'church' so I would never force my kid to do that.
No.
That's borderline child abuse.
Taking your child to church is not even CLOSE to child abuse
@Katy16
So you're telling idealogical indoctrination of a human being who does not yet have the mental maturity to make his/her own decision is not child abuse?
No its not, even little kids can understand God and his love. In the bible as @Rocket_Queen said it says to raise them up how they should go.
@Katy16
lol , okay.
Hmm @Katy16
What about God and his wrath
What about the implicit sense of guilt that's cultivated when u do not act 'morally'
What about the diminishing sense of independent thinking
@ClauseViter yes his wrath is a part of it, and that's still taught amd as the kids grow they can start to understand more and more.
I don't see this as an issue. You just pray and try and figure out what to do.
I do not believe you lose independent thinking, I've grown up in church and so have many if my friends and we all still have our own opinions. I don't actually fully agree on certain things with my pastor so my independent thinking is fine.
Because you can have subjective feelings on an objective dogma it seems logical that the whole belief system is subjective.
The history of christianity does not even involve truth. It is a story n allegory, a mythology if you will. It describes the widening gap between a 'mental' reality and a 'physical' reality. The eternal kingdom of God versus the temporal existence on earth. Unfortunately this literature requires formal investigation, but it has been used a subjective agenda to justify right action, it is a source of guilt, it the primary reason for the division of people n the condemnation of others.
@ClauseViter I disagree, and you're clearly against Christianity so this conversation is pointless.
@Katy16 Still have independent opinions. Yes. The notion that god is infallible , everything he does is right is a very constructive environment that foster independent thought.
Why is that not an independent opinion? As stated I think for myself fine and will encourage my children to, I was not only taught about God, I was taught to question everything. I still do that and then look for my answers
@Katy16 with the final answer being god is right or "god works in mysterious ways" , that's not called independent thought , that's called cherry picking evidence to support the answer your want instead of the actual answer.
I'm sorry I just disagree with that
@Katy16
Just something for you to think about. The truth is something that is open to scrutiny , it's not something that is true just cos "I said so".
I'm aware of that
@Katy16
You mean that's it's right to "bend" their minds?
@Intraluminal I don't think taking your children to church "bends" there minds
@Katy16
That's how the *Bible* views it. Using that exact word.
@Intraluminal where is that so I can reference it?
@Katy16
I was referring to the proverb
"As the twig is bent so grows the tree"
HOWEVER, I was wrong. This proverb is from Alexander Pope in the 1700s.
@Intraluminal ok didn't think that was in the Bible
No it's not. It is repeated in churches so often buti thought it was.
At the same time, why do you think Jesus was always trying to get the children to come?
Indoctrination starts early.
@Intraluminal the thing is though, even some kids raised in church don't end up believing so it clearly us still an individual choice.
@Katy16
Which is in the minority , indoctrination success rate is not 100% but it is without doubt that it does has a large influence on someone's decision especially when they are little kids.
Referencing The 1961 Bobo Doll experiment , children often interact with others in a manner that's modelled for them by adults with parents having an especial influence on them.
In other words while it is true that children may still have an amount of autonomy and freewill towards what to believe in , that amount is statistically insignificant.
Fuck , I'm arguing with people on the internet again.
I just think calling it borderline abuse is very extreme
No I most certainly wouldn't.
If my kids have no interest in school
Sorry, my phone's acting crazy.
If my kids have no interest in school and oppose education is it wrong to force them to go to school?