Suppose your kids had a disinterest in religion or were full on atheist. Would you force your children to go to church with you even though they didn't really want to go?
at first, when theyre young, ill raise my kids with my beliefs, so yes ill be taking them to church. as they grow, they will be free to form their own opinions. but the thing with my church is that we encourage kids to ask questions and debate, and even try to disprove our religion. we do it all the time. priests take it as a challenge. they tell us, if you can disprove the religion with a scientific or very legitimate argument that considers irrational as well as rational possibilities, go ahead.
the problem with non believers is they can't get their head around the notion that religion in some of its elements is irrational. what i mean is that it involves faith. believing without seeing, and of course we get called things like followers and blind sheep and all the rest of the typical arguments that atheists think will affect us.
all that said, if my child finds a way to disprove the existence of the religion and of god, i won't stop them from being an atheist. when a person however, cannot reach that kind of conclusion, they're more drawn into the fact that the religion does exist, and they'll want to know more... then they'll want to come to church on their own will. that is the goal.
@Intraluminal now you see, just because you may not believe, equating god and fairies makes sense to you. i, on the other hand, have legitimate reasons to believe, and if you find that stupid, then I'm totally cool with that.
You said, " we encourage kids to ask questions and debate, and even try to disprove our religion. we do it all the time. priests take it as a challenge. they tell us, if you can disprove the religion with a scientific or very legitimate argument that considers irrational as well as rational possibilities, go ahead."
Specifically " " you can disprove the religion with a scientific or very legitimate argument that considers irrational as well as rational possibilities, go ahead.
I come from a long family or forcing their kids to attend church and have religious rules (i. e. I can't show my shoulders, collar bone, elbows, or knees, I can't say cuss words (even the little ones), I need to make appearances at church, my male cousins can date whomever they damn well please with no consequences and meanwhile, I get condemned for talking to a guy who's an atheist, there are other double standards strewn about, my grandmother is doing her best to marry me off, your family has a heart attack if you decide never to get married, one bad apple spoils the tree (as exampled by the homophobic Christians (there are ones who support gay right and are decent human beings, I promise), etc.)
I know those were more examples than necessary, but I REALLY needed to vent.
So, no, I would not force my kids to attend church or even to follow my faith because I don't want to submit them to that shit. If they do follow my faith and go to church, that will be up to them, not me.
I grew up going to church even though I hated it ( but now I like going ) kids must be forced to do certain things. We cannot always allow them to make decisions for themselves that's why kids are so fucked today.. they have too much freedom and choice and finally get overwhelmed. When they finally move out of my house they can make their own choices, but as long as they are living under my roof they will abide by whatever rules my husband and I established. I know I may sound like some fucked prison warden, but kids do need some pushing here and there.
Not having psychologic conditions to deal with several kinds of complex decisions by themselves, yes, kids need to be guided. It is different from 'forcing' them to do something - would you consider 'forcing' kids making them eat / bath / brush teeth / sleep / study / etc?
If parents alienate themselves from these responsabilities, their kids would just become lazy, dirty, illiterate and 'useless' citizens.
And they would also easily be 'prey' for any kind of manipulation of third parties with other interests that diverge from the best for the kids, but is focused on making them follow some kind of agenda that excludes responsabilities and also parental roles.
If parents do not guide them, other people will do.
Once kids hit the age in which they have conditions to decide by themselves, those kind of decisions would be theirs and theirs own responsibility.
My daughter goes to church and she loves it. She's only 3 so we will see what happens. If complaints/problems or whatever come up, we will address them openly. She will understand it's ok to ask questions and believe it or not, it's ok to not like church. It's just a human thing we set up to worship God but it's not required to worship God. I honestly don't like churches cuz they're not addressing real issues that need addressing. That doesn't mean they're bad though, just not for me. When I was married, we read the bible together and even had communion at home. That's church too.
Yes because it's my job to raise them as children. Also anyone who goes to church probably has been taught the verse "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." When they are old enough to decide what they want to do that is up to them. But as a child, no they are going. But we also teach our children about other religions because we think it's important to know how other people may believe.
What? No! If someone expresses to me that they do not wish to do something i listen and try to be considerate. I can understand that you bring your child to bigger events at church like, a wedding or funeral. But Sunday church? Nah, i wouldn't force my belief onto someone like that.
Nope. I don't really think it's smart to force a child to be indoctrinated when they don't even understand the world.
I never liked church as a kid, if I ever had any, I'd raise them atheist. If they were interested in going like with my mom, as she's Catholic af, I'd let the kid choose. But force? Na. I don't like religion anyways.
I've always thought the best approach is to give them an opportunity to experience different religions and churches and see if they gravitate to one more than the rest. I think they'll get more out of it if they have fun and want to be involved. I was forced and didn't like it, and haven't gone back since I was old enough to refuse and my parents gave up trying to force it.
Not really. My family is religious as fuck and I'm not. I don't like going to church so I'm not gonna force my kid to go like I had to. With that said, I don't hate going to church and don't mind being in church. I'm just not religious and I just think Christianity (and virtually every religion) is hypocritical
Nah I don't think it's up to me to tell my children what to believe. I think that's a personal journey. That's how my parents raised me and I'm really happy that they did. When I was a kid I believed everything my parents told me so I could have easily been Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. In fact I used to have the same political beliefs as my parents but that changed when I became old enough to challenge all of my own beliefs and convictions.
It's their decision when they are adults. But if they're kids, I will make them go. Church isn't going to kill you. If you leave them at home, how are they going to spend those hours anyways? Also, it's not bad to give your child a less-lenient childhod. Of course, you can't be too strict, but it's good to have a firm resolve.
Church is a good way to let your kids socialize and make friends and build the importance of community, however I'm not particularly religious so I probably wouldn't be the one sending or taking them to church. But as long as they learn that religion is intended to teach peace and civility among civilization they are more than welcome to go.
I find my search for god and peace internally, and seek answers through meditation, if my children wish to do the same, they are welcome to join me.
I took my kids until they were about 9. Then I let them choose. My son hates church and never goes, but my daughter loves church and her friends in youth group, and she really enjoys going. Both decisions are totally fine with me.
No because I'm not christian. I wouldn't force them to go to the mosque because I wasn't forced to go the mosque growing up. But I wish my parents took me to the mosques or Islamic centers because I had to learn many things on my own.
How is the effect of not going to church comparable with not going to school, jumping out 10th story windows? How is the effect of not going to church comparable with rinsing their eyes with battery acid? Please explain this to an atheist.
And you seem to miss the point, my friend. A failure to recognize, acknowledge and worship Godcould carry with it eternal ramifications, whereas the implementation of this practice makes no difference whatsoever should the hopelessness of Atheism prove true.
@palek, I just see evidence that some of them act according to what they THINK their deity wants them to: converting people, killing gays, writing laws for everyone (instead of just keeping themselves to their own religious laws).
@Mesmaeker - I don't know that it does or doesn't mean that. You may well be right about "living in the spirit of God (in fact you are)" the question is, how do we define the spirit of God?
@palek believers in religion, what else? Whether one believes in any of the 3000 gods Mankind invented makes the difference with not believing in any deity.
Believers tend to follow what they *think* pleases THEIR deity. (Usually a projection of the human mind in their culture but most don't even know thoroughly the sacred writings they always refer to. They know what they heard from people around them about their religion. )
@jacquesvol stop kicking against the goads. Ignorance is destructive in any discipline. This assumes your resource is credible - I was unable to read it.
If they were studying at least they would at least achieve something doing something they didn't like. video games are a bad habit compared with films shows or documentaries as they have consequences if you just stop. Making them more addictive but not more enjoyable than something you just watch. For me when I was younger I simply didn't want to use my time for something both unenjoyable and unproductive I will do things that are 1 of those but not both.
If they were to young and immature to leave home alone while I'll went then yeah I would, but if they were old and mature enough to be home alone then fine they don't have to go.
Oh, fuck no. Even if I wasn't an atheist, I would let my kids make their own decisions & beliefs. I don't know what I would've done if my parents had forced me to go to church every week, tbh
@Riggers yet, many would debate we are born knowing thier is a higher power. Men have believed in them since we walked earth its just that people today beleive they are their own god.
No. If you take a baby and never tell him/her about religion. They will not believe in religion. Sure as they get older they make start thinking philosophical questions and perhaps think it independently as a possibility, but they will never know anything about the religions we have.
Why do you think religion is almost entirely passed down by parents who force it upon their child from birth? How many religious people actually got to choose their religion and weren't just directed into by parents? The answer is extremely few...
And, since men have walked the earth, yes they have thought the possibility of a higher power. Not because of anything other then we are very thoughtful and philosophical beings who like to be able to explain things, and what's easier to us, actually knowing our creation, or just saying some guy snapped his fingers and pulled us out his arse?
@Riggers like i said many people will debate you on that, yet our opinion and theirs can never be proven right. Being we live in a society that shoves science, popular culture and ideology down peoples throats. maybe if your raises in the wildeness alone we can debate that
You did not just say science is rammed down people's throat, oh my fuckjng God. Haha. How can you ram physics, chemistry and biology, all things we have studied observed and know are real down someone's throat, but forcing kids to study religion in even if they don't want to, that's not? Haha.
I can't speak for other counties but here in the Uk it's mandatory in schools to study religion (mostly The bible). And that's on impressional young children.
There is a big difference between teaching someone why things react the way they do, how gravity works, and other such things science explains, compared to forcing kids to read books about magical talking snakes and boats that can magically hold millions of animals.
@Riggers um, the time you get into school your taught it. Meaning you where told what to believe, its simple. noone thinks for themselves only those brainwashed think they do
If your children grew up to be atheists, you should be proud, not only that they had the courage of their convictions, but also that you had raised people who were able to throw offbyears of indoctrination to become freethinking intelligent adults.
However: if my spouse wanted them to go or to be raised in a religion, I would let them take over with the caveat that the child would no longer have to go if they decided that religion was not for them.
@Katy16 So you're telling idealogical indoctrination of a human being who does not yet have the mental maturity to make his/her own decision is not child abuse?
Hmm @Katy16 What about God and his wrath What about the implicit sense of guilt that's cultivated when u do not act 'morally' What about the diminishing sense of independent thinking
@ClauseViter yes his wrath is a part of it, and that's still taught amd as the kids grow they can start to understand more and more.
I don't see this as an issue. You just pray and try and figure out what to do.
I do not believe you lose independent thinking, I've grown up in church and so have many if my friends and we all still have our own opinions. I don't actually fully agree on certain things with my pastor so my independent thinking is fine.
Because you can have subjective feelings on an objective dogma it seems logical that the whole belief system is subjective.
The history of christianity does not even involve truth. It is a story n allegory, a mythology if you will. It describes the widening gap between a 'mental' reality and a 'physical' reality. The eternal kingdom of God versus the temporal existence on earth. Unfortunately this literature requires formal investigation, but it has been used a subjective agenda to justify right action, it is a source of guilt, it the primary reason for the division of people n the condemnation of others.
@Katy16 Still have independent opinions. Yes. The notion that god is infallible , everything he does is right is a very constructive environment that foster independent thought.
Why is that not an independent opinion? As stated I think for myself fine and will encourage my children to, I was not only taught about God, I was taught to question everything. I still do that and then look for my answers
@Katy16 with the final answer being god is right or "god works in mysterious ways" , that's not called independent thought , that's called cherry picking evidence to support the answer your want instead of the actual answer.
@Katy16 Which is in the minority , indoctrination success rate is not 100% but it is without doubt that it does has a large influence on someone's decision especially when they are little kids. Referencing The 1961 Bobo Doll experiment , children often interact with others in a manner that's modelled for them by adults with parents having an especial influence on them. In other words while it is true that children may still have an amount of autonomy and freewill towards what to believe in , that amount is statistically insignificant. Fuck , I'm arguing with people on the internet again.
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