https://youtu.be/n0pVuZ0CT7Q
Dwayne Wades 12 year old son has decided to change gender and is getting support from his parents. Should children that age be allowed to decide that?
https://youtu.be/n0pVuZ0CT7Q
I disagree.
Kids identify as a gender by the age of 3 and society does not help with promoting a gender binary that does not allow children to express themselves as they want.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/children-and-gender-identity/art-20266811
This includes children who are told they are boys yet feel like their girls and vice versa.
It is also advised for those who identify as transgender to transition before adolescence: before natural hormones take place. So it is best for her to transition before then.
I just find people unwilling to empathize with the situation and rather prefer to rationalize explanations (a cognitive defense mechanism) to justify their bias (religion) or confirm a belief that is based on little to no evidence.
Try to think of it this way: you're constantly feeling that you are not who you truly are. I am a cisgender woman: I feel I am a woman. But the mental anguish and torment these people go through, knowing they feel they are born the wrong sex, is something I would never want to suffer. The majority of them suffer from depression because of this and transitioning helps them.
It's not similar to racial self-hatred: something that can be easily resolved with logic, facts, therapy and more. These people can not be "fixed" like that. They either suffer constantly in a body they do not feel comfortable in or they transition. Personally, I think more research should be done on what might influence this (increase of various hormones perhaps). Still I feel that it is that family's right to do what they want within the law and to support their child's choice (rather than continue making their child suffer).
I don't think changing the childs gender is the answer to his suffering. If the child felt he shouldn't be black he should be white, they would tell him it's silly and teach him how to love his black skin. If the child grew too tall and he wanted to be shorter, they wouldn't chop off part of his legs, they would tell him that there is nothing wrong with his height and teach him to see it in a positive way. I think it's the same with gender. I would ask him to explain himself why can't he accept himself as a male. I would ask what is it about women that he wants for himself. I am sure he can learn to love the body he was given and not mutilate it surgically, while at the same time be feminine in a way he wants to be, grow long hair, wear feminine clothes, have long hairs, wear makeup, but don't remove any parts of himself that are functional.
I think that's the wrong approach to mental illness. Telling people who thing a body part isn't really theirs to cut it off is wrong. there are self-amputees who've done the same thing with limbs. If I think I can see people memories and know the guilt of all should society humor me? What about any other delusion I may have? Are they equally valid?
Empathy has nothing to do with it. It would be a terrible thing to suffer believing I was born the wrong sex. To increase their suffering by playing-along is also terrible.
It’s not a mental illness. It’s a mental perception that they feel they are born wrong. It’s gender dysphoria.
You come across as ignorant. Research has shown that transitioning decreases the mental suffering they feel.
And empathy has a lot to do with it. If you can’t place yourself in that persons situation to try and understand these options is ignorant.
Schizophrenia is just a perception too then. You didn't answer the question.
Also: journals.plos.org/.../journal.pone.0016885
I care more about preserving people than I do virtue signaling. What's trendy isn't always what's kind.
Schizophrenia isn’t perception. It’s a mental disorder that causes breaks from reality.
Completely different from someone in complete control of their faculties but feeling that they are born in the wrong body.
You just revealed your ignorance by saying that it’s a trend especially when research has shown that the majority of them suffer from depression and there is a significant decrease after transition.
Educate yourself.
Click the link.
And how is thinking you were "born in the wrong body" not a break from reality? Excuse me if I don't believe in whatever religion you have that says births are predestined, but somehow "god" makes mistakes in setting forth this gran scheme.
I linked to my research, link to yours.
Because they are still aware of actually reality while schizos aren’t when they go into the state that presents a break from reality.
That link can’t be verified because it doesn’t tell what methods were used and if these measures are reliable and valid.
Again stop being ignorant. You’re wrong.
If all you have is insults you don't have much of an argument. And it does tell you the methodology. I'm going to assume you aren't native to the west and just aren't familiar with the format. If you'll read past the abstract you'll see it. Alternatively there is a column on the left side with labels such as "abstract", "introduction" and "methods".
I would very much like to see the study you've been referencing. As I am not so ignorant as to not understand how to read a paper. I would very much like to educate myself and I thank you for the kind advice.
In your statement you admitted that in reality they were not born into the wrong body. This means it is a psychological problem. As such I would very much like to see evidence that the hormonal/surgical approach to treatment actually helps them before I endorse it.
I again beg you for the study.
@meesegoMoo She is the ignorant one don't bother
You’re ignorant. That’s not an insult: it’s the truth. The study even indicates that they prioritized diagnosis of gender identity AFTER which is never advised for one to do.
Not to mention that finding one single study that confirms your belief is confirmation bias (especially when it’s as old as it is). Looking through numerous studies while being open minded is logical. The various studies that I have seen reveal that transitioning after decreases mental anguish but it’s not as if they don’t still suffer through a prejudiced society (especially minority transsexuals who are viciously targeted).
To be honest, I’m not interested in anything you have to say especially since you’ve come across completely uneducated about the issue.
Look it up yourself. You’re wrong. There’s plenty of research that has been done which shows a decrease in suicides after transitioning but there are still high rates of depression (for everything they go through).
No, I’m not interested discussing this with you since I see it and you as a complete waste of time.
What's moronic is speaking ill about one source without any source of your own. Delusion is much worse than conformation bias. You'r as bad as @Exorcist_Rampage was.
Again, I am very willing, and excited, to read any evidence contrary to my current viewpoint. After all, that would mean I didn't have to view cases of transitioning children as child abuse. That would provide me with a much happier outlook.
If you know of a more recent long-term study, or any more recent study, I would very much appreciate a link to it. I'm willing to hear your side of the argument should you actually choose to present it.
Whatever kid. I didn’t read it and I don’t care. You’re letting personal bias reflect you feel when the proper method is to search for both confirming and disconfirming evidence to compare.
I’ve seen more confirming evidence than disconfirming and I’ve actually looked. I literally have no interest in talking to kids who have made statements like you have concerning those people.
Good luck.
@Anoniemus I disagree with you partially about the "mental illness" part, primarily because we don't know the cause. I think it's more accurate to say that it is probably a developmental disorder, or to use a less charged term, its a developmental anomaly. Unfortunately science just doesn't have great understanding and solutions to the issue yet, so any kind of treatment or lack of it can have a wide range of outcomes. That said, I agree with most everything else you said, and reassignment should be an option as long as everyone is aware of the risks.
@meesegoMoo Depends on what the treatment is for the transition. However I am not aware of any surgeries being performed for Gender dysphoria on toddlers. But they are routinely performed for intersex children however. en.wikipedia.org/.../Intersex_medical_interventions
@Chase7777 Correct. That is why I do not want to call a person who believes they were born into the wrong sex as being mentally ill. It becomes a mental illness, by the currently accepted medical definition for gender dysphoria, when it causes the person distress. But there are two elements to gender dysphoria 1) believing a person is of the wrong sex and 2) being distressed by it. And I speak strictly to the first part. We do not know exactly why that happens at this point. And it is why I referred to it as an anomaly. Although I am making a assumption it is an anomaly that occurs during development, and not necessarily a genetic cause.
@meesegoMoo "All the evidence I've seen points to environmental factors being a strong part of it" I agree, think it is something that occurs in utero whether it's because the mother's hormones just happen to be off balance in the Nth week, or she breathed in too much pollution, or the moon was full.. we just don't know. And I don't really want to refer to it as a birth defect either. Because I wouldn't be surprised if whatever the cause, it's similar to whatever makes a person gay. Something for whatever reason causes the brain to differentiate when developing as the opposite sex to what the body is. And saying something like homosexuality is a birth defect is a pretty charged term. So I go with anomaly. Because is it really a defect if the person were able to live a happy life if it weren't for the societal stigma?
Compare it to being left-handed. Most people are right handed. And people who were left-handed have been vilified through history. Look at the entomology of the words Sinister and Gauche. There's even pretty interesting arguments that there's evolutionary benefits that we all use a common hand. Prior to understanding sanitation, did you really want to shake the hand of someone who used the wrong hand to wipe themselves? But for some reason 10% of us (myself included) prefer the left. We don't know why. Is it a birth defect? Maybe. I think anomaly is a safe way to put it. Because I can live just fine with the defect, except when i try to find a killer left-handed gaming mouse.
@Artesian No. That's not the meaning of "environmental factors" it's similar to the gay question. It's likely that not everybody even CAN be gay, but in those that can it's often triggered as a response to a specific situation/stimuli. That why these people often have similar childhoods. That goes for the transgender question as well.
Transgenderism is also counted wrong as well. Men who have auto-erotic "quarks" surrounding role-playing/dressing up as women are often counted as transsexual. Unless they are drag-queens or self-identify as Transvestite. Many psychological professionals know the difference but do not put it into practice.
@meesegoMoo Not sure what you are saying. Environmental factors can be anything from a mother's stress being too high to ingesting toxins like smoking. There's even evidence through epigentics that trauma to the grandparent while carrying the mother can affect the grandchild. I was being more absurd in my examples above to illustrate that it can be anything. Or are you saying environmental factors such as how the child is raised, or exposure to toxins, or other trauma after birth?
@Artesian As in experience, growing environment. I mostly read paper dealing with post-fetal development, that's where my language comes from.
How the kid is raised is a big part of it, what trauma they've experienced. With the question of homosexuality, a common trait is childhood abuse, not necessarily sexual, from authority figures. Sexual abuse is also common, but more so in pedophiles which is something too many people have associated with the gay community already, so I would like to make a note here that this is not an endorsement of that stupid and evil viewpoint.
@meesegoMoo That's not what an environmental factor is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_factor But I understand what you're saying. The environment in which the child is raised, including how the parents raise them (spoiled, disciplined, cold, loving, etc.), trauma like abuse or sickness, nutrition, etc. Usually all bundled as 'nurture' in the 'nature vs nurture' argument.
@Artesian Again, my language come from the academic circles I swim in. For the purposes of that field, that is the meaning. Hence my apology for my confusing use of the terms, twas due to my habit. Kind of like people in certain professions speak strangely after a few years. I understand what you meant by environmental factors, and I appreciate you were willing to educate me.
A child cannot vote, cannot consent to sex, cannot work a job, cannot be tried as an adult for a crime, etc. What makes you think they are able to make such a huge life altering decision such as being able to transition? 16-17 should be the minimum age in which someone should be able to transition.
"You come across as ignorant. Research has shown that transitioning decreases the mental suffering they feel."
Statistics show that the suicide rate among trans people remains the same even after transitioning. So clearly transitioning isn't the answer, especially since there are many people that have transitioned and end up regretting their decision.
I support someone's personal choice to do what they please with their money. With that said, I don't really think transitioning is the right answer.
Maybe instead of giving them hormones of what sex they were not born to be, give them hormones of the sex that they were born as. This bull shit of a male child, after watching the Power Puff Girls, wanting to then be a girl and then going through the sex transitioning has to stop. This "Give the kids anything they want" is for the birds. I'm sure they want to be doctors, lawyers, and rich too, but guess what, not everyone is born to be any of these. Neither is a child born to be a sex they are not.
Well they can go through a lot more torment when they transition. Many will think them abnormal. Today even normal kids get bullied because they are "different", some even to the point where they commit suicide. So how much do you think a transgender is going to endure? They already have so much negativity towards them as their born with sex, I can see how the kids who bullied them then will be jumping on the band wagon to really sock it to them. Is that really going to make a transition worth while? I think not!
@Chase7777 What you are saying by your statement is that the hormones that they take for sex reassignment messes them up. But my guess is that they are already messed up beforehand.
@Hunter7754 No. It doesn't.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5925023/
They fare better with a successful transition BUT they still live in a very hostile world that antagonizes, discriminates, assaults, and harms them. That is the issue.
@Daniela1982 It's really simple: it's none of your business. You're not the one going through this and suffering: they are. If they feel that transitioning is better for them, then they should be allowed to do so.
All I am seeing is what I've said: biased rationalizations for people to push their beliefs onto others. It has nothing to do with and highly bigoted. You do not go through what these people have to DAILY. They are in CONSTANT MENTAL TORMENT because they feel their bodies do not match what their psyche is. One way to fix that is transitioning and transitions are better when natural hormones are blocked.
Do I think that more research should be placed into WHY they feel this way? If more or a certain hormone is stimulated or perhaps being repressed? Yes. I feel like this people are being financially used instead of honestly helped. BUT if it helps someone, that option is for them to choose, no one else.
I'll have to take a closer look at the statistics you posted because from what I've seen as far as statistics goes, those that have transitioned are at a higher risk for suicide ( journals.plos.org/.../journal.pone.0016885 ). The sample size in this one is slightly larger than the sample size contained in your comment and the study is longitudinal (done over a period of 30 years)
"Also, as I've said, transitioning is best done PRE-ADOLESCENCE before they go through puberty.
It's their life. No one should force them to live a lie."
What makes you think someone as young as 11-12 can make a decision like this? The brain is incredibly malleable at that age and is still very much in development. We know that a child is unable to consent, cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot get plastic surgery, etc. So what makes you think they're mentally able to make a huge life altering decision such as changing their gender?
I personally dont really buy the notion that gender is a spectrum or that gender is something that is malleable but if you have the money and are of age to make that decision, then go ahead, its your life. Where I draw the line is when I see people thinking that CHILDREN are mentally equipped to make such a decision like this.
16-17 should be the absolute minimum age in which a person should be able to transition.
Your examples have nothing to do with brain development. Decades ago children as young as 12 were working and there are children who can easily learn to drive at that age and have been driving. Not to mention that brain development doesn’t cease until 25 for men, early 20s for women.
It’s simple: it’s their life. They know what they’re going through and feeling. The psychiatrists that diagnose gender dysphoria don’t do it lightly and state that transition pre adolescence is much better than doing it post but still work with the individual to assure that they are properly diagnosing them. They can even give them puberty blockers to delay puberty just in case if there is one who finds out more about themselves. www.google.com/.../transgender-children-teens-transition-detransition-puberty-blocking-medication
Transitioning doesn’t only mean hormonal medications though. It means wearing the stereotypical clothing attributes to the sex that the transgender relates, using correct pronouns, changing their name—all which assist in lessening their mental distress.
Again, it’s none of your business. It has nothing to do with you. You’re not going through what they’re suffering. It’s just another example of a personal belief being forced onto others.
@meesegoMoo I think the phrase your really looking for is social factors or social influences. It's more specific than environmental factors alone. That could be anything from being raised by a single mother with only sisters to being raped in a religious cult, but exclude something like the mother being exposed to lead pain when pregnant.
@Hunter7754 " because from what I've seen as far as statistics goes, those that have transitioned are at a higher risk for suicide",
Guarantee you didn't actually read that study before, and just googled it looking for one that supports your position. That's confirmation bias, you should try to avoid it. If you found that study because you read something by The Heritage Foundation, then I encourage you to look for more objective sources of information than conservative circle-jerking culture clubs.
The problem with using study to support your assertions is that it appears to be matching randomized people from the Swedish population as controls (That's what's said in the paragraph labelled "Identification of population-based controls (unexposed group)"), and not pre-op trans people. FYI: People willing to go through with sex-reassignment vs those the regular population, are probably already in a much higher risk category.
Simply saying that post-op trans people have a substantially higher rate of suicide is disingenuous if you are comparing it against the normal population, and not pre-op trans people.
Also from the study: "Other facets to consider are first that this study reflects the outcome of psychiatric and somatic treatment for transsexualism provided in Sweden during the 1970s and 1980s. Since then, treatment has evolved with improved sex reassignment surgery, refined hormonal treatment,[11], [41] and more attention to psychosocial care that might have improved the outcome."
Comparing outcomes of procedures performed 30 years prior (40 now as the study is 10 years old) to procedures that would be done now, is also as disingenuous as suggesting we don't give children access to modern schizophrenia treatments because therapy failed in the 70s.
Dumb Anon - then why the fuck are we discussing this. It is really no one's business but those going through it yet you are shooting off your mouth and making judgements yourself. So don't jump on my butt for giving an opinion which is what we were asked for. There is an age where a person can make a rational and mature decision, but not the age where they are just out of playing with GI Joe's or Barbies which is what a 12 year old is in regarding maturity.
You are no better than just another Anonymous troll. Adios!
@Hunter7754 "Where I draw the line is when I see people thinking that CHILDREN are mentally equipped to make such a decision like this. "
Just out of curiosity, are there any other illnesses that children are not mentally equipped to make such a decision over?
I think for a lot of people if they can't actually experience directly or indirectly the problem the child has, they ignore it, discount it, or otherwise rationalize it away. I bet you wouldn't hesitate for a moment to give a young child surgery to fix a cleft lip because you can clearly see the child has an abnormality. But that child's face is still maturing, so by your own logic we should not perform any facial surgery on a child younger than 16.
I'm pretty sure if we had the technology to see and quantify sexual expression in the brain, you wouldn't have a problem with this. Except we don't yet. We are stuck with just what the child tells us and how they behave.
And in the cases of children who have said for years they feel like the wrong sex, act like they have the wrong sex, prefer dressing as the opposite sex, and all hose other factors that give us the ability to determine a person's sexual identity.. I'm all for giving that child the ability to make the change if it makes them happier. Which, is usually initiated by reversibly delaying puberty now so they can make the permanent choice when they are older.
Why is that such a difficult thing for some segments of the population to grasp?
Dressing and being accepted at 12 yes. Making physical surgical changes that is something that should not happen until a person is an adult.
I'll be frank making physical changes to the body scares me. If I had a child even an adult child the risks from the surgery would scare me and what if he had regrets later. Not regrets that he felt like a woman but regrets about removing his penis.
I would, also, be concerned about hormones. I've taken HRT and I know how powerful hormone replacement can be. It isn't benign if you get too much of it.
And you never know, just as hormones in your food can be bad, hormones you were not born with can possibly bite you in your ass later on with cancer or mental illness, or a myriad of other unforeseen consequences. I mean who really knows as there have been not enough studies on it, if any.
40 years ago we wouldn't imagine injecting kids with high levels of opposing hormones and cutting organs off. Because it sounds crazy.
If I'm a kid this is like a game, or dress up. The more positive influence this idea gets, they're not going to want to return to a balanced state. They get all the attention they want, parents taking an interest, all big and happy.
Their will be a day that they wake up from the fantasy world that was made. And it's not going to be pleasant. Or they'll continue the game for their life.
A kid does not and can not comprehend what the consequences of these choices are.
They are a child. Parents are suppose to protect them from societies influence to shape and mold them.
Got a male body, learn it, love it, accept it stay true to your nature
Got a female body learn it, love it, accept it stay true to your nature.
An infinite amount of version of both man and woman. Pick one. Don't fuck with the body. It's the one thing that will fight for you to the very end at all costs.
Leave the body alone.
Be who you are but leave the body alone.
12 year-olds might have an idea. I think it's should be treated like a mental illness in older people. Transitioning toddlers is worse than some war crimes
Your take on this is very well understood. Everything you said accurately points out the atrocity of this culture.
This kid is probably coerced through peer pressure or influenced by modern "social constructs" that tell us if we don't fit the traditional role of masculine or feminine we should change our gender or be gender neutral. That's not how it should work. We are teaching people, including adults, that on order to be comfortable with themselves they have to completely change their identity...
And the kid is likely not wanting a sex change. They likely don't know what that is.
yes, there is definitely a better way to deal with whatever he is going through, but noone is interested in fining out the cause for this
Opinion
66Opinion
I think it's a pretty bold assumption to make that she somehow hates herself or sees her biological sex as a flaw. We don't know that. She could just as well have come to realize that identifying as a male is not her, not because there's anything wrong with it, but because it doesn't match her identity. It not matching her identity doesn't automatically mean that she hates herself or thinks of her biological sex as flawed. That's like saying anyone who dyes their hair or puts makeup on hates themselves. There are a million reasons why someone might want to dye their hair or use makeup, and I think that same logic applies as to why someone might feel like their sex doesn't match their identity.
We also don't know if she's going through therapy. We don't know to which extent she has been allowed to change her gender, for now it could very well just be her name and the way she dresses. Or it could be more than that. To be horrified by things we're not even sure are true or not is a waste of time and energy in my opinion.
At 12 years old, I know I was pretty intuitive and self-aware. Not to the extent I am now of course, but that's usually the age when your identity is really starting to take off and form. I'm not surprised that she decided she wanted to do this at 12, it's probably something she's been thinking of her entire life, but she's just now starting to let it really take form as it's sinking in that this is who she really is.
Letting her change her name and dress a certain way is not the end of the world. Kids should freely be able to explore their identities and be allowed to shape themselves into the person they want to be. If, for some reason, down the road she realizes that she does identify as male, then it's not like it's the end of the world. That's up to her to figure out. Nobody else but her is affected by this. I really don't see what the big deal is.
''sees her biological sex as a flaw'' if he does not thing being a male is a flaw, he should be able to love himself as one. he can identify as a female, express himself as one, just don't mutilate a perfectly good body. if it goes that far the obsession has gone to unhealthy levels
Again we don't know to what extent she will go with switching her gender. We don't know if she'll undergo a sex change or not. You can also love yourself and still feel like your body doesn't match your identity. Just like you can cut your hair, get piercings, get tattoos, etc etc and still love yourself and your body before and after altering it. I also don't think calling a sex change "mutilation" is necessary, to mutilate is actually a pretty aggressive term and is more often used when something physically harmful is done to someone against their will. It also implies that a trans person's body is more imperfect than a cis person's body because they've undergone an operation, which I find to be quite a disgusting mindset to have.
If you grew a dick overnight for some reason, you're saying that you'd just totally accept it and be fine with it? Love yourself no matter what? Not even think for a split second "how do I get rid of this thing that doesn't feel like it should be a part of my body"?
''You can also love yourself and still feel like your body doesn't match your identity'' your body is not your identity, you can change your identity and go through phases, but you will only have one body, so love it and accept it. And piercings, tattoos, haircuts are NOTHING in comparison to sex change. Yes the world mutilation is appropriate, it's extremely invasive and dangerous, all the hormone treatments, the surgeries, don't you think that messes with the body? change hair 15 times in a month, but dont cut away functioning body parts. No we don't know if he is going to do that yet, but I believe he will, because at such an impressionable age he is already allowed to think that is ok so it's only natural for him to plan it.
''If you grew a dick overnight for some reason, you're saying that you'd just totally accept it and be fine with it?'' you are dumb af. If anything grew on me overnight that is not supposed to be there I would not be ok and get concerned for my health. But if I was born with one and lived my life as a male I'd be fine with it.
"but you will only have one body, so love it and accept it" again, you can love your body even if you don't think you have the sex that matches your identity. Only having one body is not a good argument for wanting to change it. Piercings/tattoos/haircuts etc might not be as permanent as a sex change, but the logic is the same: just because you want to change something about your body, it doesn't mean that you hate your body. Also I'm not sure you completely understand how a mtf sex reassignment surgery works, they're mostly not cutting *away* any body parts or causing permanent damage, they're forming the penis in a way to make it look like a fully functioning vagina. And of course hormone treatments and such will affect the body, but so does plenty of other "normal" things such as the contraceptive pill, or even your diet. If it was extremely dangerous, most people wouldn't go through with it.
The whole point about growing a dick overnight is that you'd likely feel like it's not really a part of you or your body, even if it's a fully functioning and healthy dick that the doctors advised you not to do anything with. That's how many trans people feel. And you saying that if you were born a male you'd be fine with it is also quite a bold assumption, because how do you know that? You don't.
''Piercings/tattoos/haircuts etc might not be as permanent as a sex change, but the logic is the same:'' Now you're contradicting yourself. The logic is not the same at all. Haircuts, tattoos, piercings don't change your body, you are working with what you already have and it can be reversed, even tattoos can be removed. You can love your body and accept it, haircuts, piercings are such tiny things, people are just experimenting and having fun with them, noone thinks a certain piercing on their body is their identity and who they are. And if they do they need a reality check. Sex change hormones are nothing like birth control pills and diet, you take such small things and compare them against something so invasive to the body as if they are the same. Diet seriously? What diet stops puberty or makes you grow body hair? You cannot compare all of those things to getting a boob job to look like a woman or taking a couple of ribs out to have a smaller waist. Anyone who goes that far, even if they are not getting a sex change and do it for vanity need a therapist to work on self image and confidence issues, not get under a knife.
Plenty of people think that those who dye their hair or use makeup or get piercings/tattoos are just hiding their natural looks and do it because they don't love themselves or their bodies. So the logic is the same and no, I'm not contradicting myself. You can alter your body, be it permanently or not, and it doesn't necessarily at all reflect whether you love or hate yourself.
Birth control pills can give you migraines, nausea, mood swings, lack of sex drive, dry vagina, increases your risk of getting a blood clot and even cause depression. Yet you don't seem to think that's a big deal. Diets can cause heart disease and different kinds of organ failures. Being malnourished can also stop your puberty technically.
and can even cause depression*
Regardless, I'm not a massive fan of telling people what they can or can't do with their body. Yes, if someone is suffering from a mental illness, it's best that they go to therapy first and try to tackle that before considering making any radical changes. But no, I don't think that ultimately we get a say in what people can or can't do with their bodies. That's between them and their doctor.
Overall I'm just not a fan of creating all these million combinations and identities. Seriously. If someone I know does it, I don't run around shouting at them but in my opinion of course, it's just another form of not being comfortable in their own skin. Add to that the rotten media of today, sorry excuses for social media influencers changing from one thing to the other in the blink of an eye and telling the public that it's normal and it's to be accepted, and you'll see that in the end it's people who aren't comfortable with themselves, who change themselves but don't stop at that. Instead they create an identity that matches them and promote it as a separate thing that 'society' is not accepting presently, make some people join it and then revel in the feeling that they made society accept that so called movement. Ultimately it's just a justification of the change they underwent.
Quite honestly, there's never gonna be an end to this. People are going to keep becoming more and more insecure. These identities are going to keep getting more fragmented. It's... Sad tbh
no and the reason being that as a society we deem the age of consent to be 16-18 in most places and as such it follows that ''kids'' should not be able to make life changing decissions on sexuality or gender... fine if a boy wants to wear a dress but to start the ball rolling in the case of gender reasignment seems so wrong to me. i hav no issue with the trans community because i believe every adult has the right to choose but i have heard many adults report that in their years as kids they wanted one thing they no longer want to the point i heard the story of a little boy who was allowed to be a little girl but since regretted it all and was infact transitioning back to being a man after making a more ''adult'' decission in later life. to me an individual needs to be 18 to be allowed to make physical transitioning a reality beyond just clothing, hair and make up etc
I have no idea what a process like this costs but where is this family going to get the money to do this or are they expecting the tax payers to pay for it?
Nor should it. They will probably open a GoFundMe account to pay for this nonsense.
@Daniela1982 well i won't be donating anything... i think the same laws that apply to sexual consent age should be applied here because how can one law say kids are kids and another say that they are capable to decide what gender they are...16 and over and they do what the hell they like as far as im concerned
@Daniela1982 Dwayne Wade is one of those most famous NBA players on modern history and has a net worth of around 120 million dollars...
@SirRexington ah yes i thought i had seen this story before somewhere... thanks for jogging my memory on that
@SirRexington Well that figures. The rich can satisfy their fantasies I guess. Anything to spoil their kids and give in to their whims.
@Daniela1982 I think it's more than that. I think it's about them feeling they need to cow tow to the elites who embrace this nonsense. This is dangerous for society and especially for young people.
I voted OTHER because you framed the question to not know who they are.
YOU ARE BORN WHAT YOU ARE !
It is the devil that is manipulating these newer generations to be confused. Kids are confused no matter what. They are not developed enough to make decisions on any thing. Why in the world would this be acceptable. The parents now just are giving up in raising their children with morals and just simple facts of life.
The family values are absolutely destroyed and we are allowing a messed up society dictate the moral structure of simple common sense.
DO NOT LABEL ME INTOLERANT. Label me as Irate at this stupidity of this generation.
I don't know.
I'd like more data to be collected and shared on what's happening so that maybe in 5-10 years we'll have better ideas about outcomes.
I'm aware that once male puberty happens, their ability to pass if they transition later is much worse.
I've really not known people who were pre-transition. The two trans people I've known transitioned before i met them and wouldn't have known if they hadn't shared it with me.
I'm not confident we have a good handle on which kids are suffering from dysphoria and are likely to have more successful lives transitioned. But I'm not sure we're not either. The field is politicized. More data tracking outcomes is something we should all be able to agree on, whatever else is done.
It's great that the parents are very supportive like that but I do follow on a tv show "I am Jazz" it's a transgender teen who had a lot of complications in surgery. I don't think they should get it done until they are actually an adult, cause once they go out there is no going back.
exactly, and their bodies are still growing and developing so surgery too early would be very wrong
in 20 years we're going to have a whole generation whose lives were ruined because they were encouraged at such a young age to mutilate their bodies... Its going to be a diaster and Im worried about them. Society needs to stop pushing this gender shit.
(Before any conservatives get all happy with this comment just remember this is all your fault for enforcing gender roles. You tell a boy that only girls like dresses? Guess what now he thinks he's a girl because he likes dresses. Liberals may have made the problem worse with this crappy solution but the root of the problem here is conservative gender roles)
all right no need to get all political
This was very much a political question
nothing to do with liberals or conservatives, this is not about politics, it's about bad parenting
The only reason parents now are accepting this and acting like this is because of politics, because of the recent push for acceptance of transgenderism and nonbinary (ism? idk).
So at the surface no, but digging deeper... All of this at its roots have to do with both parties a lot
ok I see what you mean now.
Yeah, let's give underage people hormone- and pubertyblocker and essentially chemically castrate them. What could possibly go wrong?
I still think this entire transgender shit is going down in history like the nobel prize for lobotomy. Thousands of people are getting fucked over for life.
The only good thing is that they will not further procreate - so this insanity will die out eventually.
You don’t get hormone blockers and homones. You get one or the other. And hormone blockers are reversible. If a child figures out they aren’t trans, they stop the blocker go right through normal puberty.
@Hermits-Shell
Bullshit. Disrupting a normal puberty is not something that is reversible.
Do research on the topic. When put on hormone blockers and then you abruptly stop, the regular hormone phases your body was supposed to go through, happens. Thats why they are given hormone blockers and not hormones.
@Hermits-Shell
I've read it. Thing is, you can't just delay someones puberty for a few months or even years. Stopping these blockers will not magically have puberty continue where it stoppes.
You are a lunatic that you are willing to put this onto children. People like you are disgusting perverts.
Sir. I dont want to fuck children and i just want make sure the child doesn’t kill themselves because thats what usually happens. And it honestly depends on what you read because people confused hormone blockers for hormones all the time. Hormones aren’t reversible, hormone blockers are. You can start the regular process after years, there is science behind this.
@Hermits-Shell
Hormones may not be reversible. But delaying puberty fucking is. Are you that dense? Also post-transition transgender kill themselves just as much as pre-transition. So your logic doesn't check out here.
Also perverted doesn't necessarily revolve around sexual actions. See oxford dictionary:
"(of a thing) having been corrupted or distorted from its original course, meaning, or state."
They kill themselves because people like you. Did you look into why they kill themselves because gay people kill themselves to, but it isn’t because they are gay its because how they are treated because there gay. Are you fucking dense? This is literal science. They block your hormones not change them. Hormones change them, therefore it isn’t reversible. You know the scientist did experiments to see if it was reversible? Blocker are reversible but Hormones aren’t. Please do actual research before calling me dense.
In what way am I corrupted. Because I want to stop kids from killing themselves because they don’t understand how they feel different. It doesn’t make sense. Your fucking evil for using suicide rates and trying to manipulate that to make these people seem like a bad thing.
As a queer person. I wanted kill myself because of people like you because i didn't understand why i was attracted to women and it would have helped if people educated me about stuff like this.
@Hermits-Shell being attracted to same gender is not wrong, but you need to love yourself first and accept yourself, you cannot change your body so severely to be ''accepted by society'' being different is ok, but there is a line between a preference that makes you different and obsession that turns into a disorder. I know what it is like to want to kill myself and at the end of the day I cannot blame other people for wanting me to do it, yes there are many haters that make it hard, but it is up to me if I allow it to affect me or if I become stronger and grow. It's also selfish because there are people who love you and you pay more attention to the haters instead of those who care for you. And @FakeName123 is right. you are the one who needs to do more research. hormone treatments are not reversible and they have huge side effects. you cannot postpone surgery, if someone starts hormone treatment at 13 and stops at 30 do you think they will continue to develop? No fucking way
I did to the research and again both are you are confusing hormones with hormone blockers. Blockers stop the process temporarily and hormones alter permanently. If someone is taking hormone blockers to that age, that doesn’t make any sense because its for people who are too young to take hormones and then when they get old enough they take hormones. If someone takes hormone blockers until That age, what will happen is that person will start normal hormonal process. How ever sex reassignment, i think you should be age 21 because that closer to end of brain development
Which is 25
@Hermits-Shell if you take hormone blockers for years and then decide to stop and go through puberty you are a little slow. and if you don't think they have permanent effect on your body go and consult a doctor, NOT internet articles. people, especially someone who is still growing need the right amount of hormones for developing everything and stay healhy, stopping that and taking pills that interfere with the natural process in order to look differently is just stupid in so many ways. when he is 18 he can decide if he wants to damage his body. right now he needs to be a kid and experiment with what girls do if he wants, just dont mess with biology
OF COURSE NOT !
THESE ARE HORRIBLE PARENTS !
Asking this question clearly demonstrates the STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE of the asker!
A 12 year old cannot decide who should be mayor or president by voting, or drive a car, or order drinks at a bar, or use tobacco, or join the military, etc, etc, etc
ONLY A FOOL would say that a child should be undergoing such a huge, permanent change in their life !
But mayor requires being informed about certain policies and issues. Being informed about your own body and how you feel, a child can know these things. Just how child can know they like ice cream or know there attracted to other kids their age.
@Hermits-Shell please do not conflate liking ice cream to a persons social identity. That's incredibly ignorant. And how someone feels doesn't matter. We aren't addressing pain from a toothache. We are discussing a psychological phenomenon. An anorexic person has an identity disorder just like those with gender identity disorder. Do we entertain their ideas of delusion or do we help them through this complicated time?
No because we with anorexic people we have to get them to realize that they were weight is normal. Trans peope don’t actively harm themselves. I used ice cream as an example to a child understanding themselves. When i was child I understand i was a attracted to men and women. Children understand themselves and some children dont like how adults describe them. So they should receive help from a therapist and they find what’s appriate. And also i think its funny how you told me not “conflate liking icecream with socail identiy” but them you conflate body dysmorphia and dysphoria. One is a insecurity issues caused by Beauty standards and dysphoria is a gender identity. No social cause at all.
@Hermits-Shell '' Trans peope don’t actively harm themselves'' getting under a knife and doing invasive surgeries is not harming onesself? that is unnatural and dangerous, it's mutilation of a perfectly good body. Children think they understand themselves, but they are still growing and getting to know themselves, things change, they go through phases, they are still learning, that is why they are not allowed to make any decisions which would have permanent impact.
I think it'd be stupid to go into that sort of transition at such a young age. I'm sure that there are some ultimate benefits to doing so as soon as possible (hormones, development) but I also don't think a kid can fully process the whole of what they're getting themselves into.
We wouldn't let a child of that age make any other major life decisions, why do we capitulate on this one? And do we allow parents to consent here where the child is legally unable to?
I guess if we can let parents choose whether or not to vaccinate, we can let them choose whether or not to change their kid's sex.
My father worked in youth protection, corrections with rapists, pedophiles, etc. for decades with a PhD in psychology.
I look at this sort of attitude in one way. ... No preteen should know anything about their sexuality. They should not question their sexuality. There is no reason for it. They aren't developing refined sexual traits.
And back during his work time (which wasn't too long ago) my father & his peers would question has the preteen been molested/sexually assaulted for such (what is in many ways abnormal) sexual curiosity instead of clapping the parents on the back & saying bravo.
*To add excessive or early sexual curiosity (e. g. revealing oneself in inappropriate places if mental illness isn't to blame) - you can google this if you want - is oftentimes an indication of sexual molestation.
In my opinion it's too early. Kids that age don't know what they want regardless of what the parents say. If you can't drink or smoke until you are 21 or at least can't buy it, how can you decide a life long change such as gender? This is a fad and it will pass like every other thing these kids are into. Can he get married on his own at 12? Buy a house or car or enter into a contract? This is nothing more than political collateral damage instigated and cultivated by leaders to distract the public interest away from their agenda. The parents, especially celebrities are too stupid to realize this and are doing it for publicity. Would he have been on that show otherwise? I'm atheist so that's not religion talking.
I don't support transgenderism at all , this is just insanity , why why do we support this shit?
May be I can get why we accept homosexuality but why this?
There are men , women and children who are born with genetic disorders , have lost their limbs or an organ , are poor and might have very serious health issues
And this kid who is healthy wants to undergo surgery just because he doesn't want a penis
Just disgusting , some people are not at all happy with what they are blessed with
I hear trans genders have high suicide rates , good we don't need stupid people like them
No I think that's too soon to decide. I mean I think that's one of the problems we have right now.
It seems like a fad or trend to become like a different gender or to be so accepting of all gender choices.
Cause like as a teen or kid we all know we can go through phases in life and eventually we grow out of them.
Just as an example maybe you were a goth kid in school or some kinda hipster. Like dressing and behaving a certain way can always be changed.
However changing your gender there's no going back. And if there is I'm sure it would cost a lot of money and might be a painful experience.
I think 12 is still too young. When I was 12, many kids I went to school with were going through phases of changing their sexuality, and many of them did not stay the same. At 12, you still have time before you develop into who you're going to be, if that makes sense. A sex change is not something that can easily be reversed, and I believe there will still be permanent effects even if it is reversed (I don't know a lot about it, but remember reading about someone who regretted their sex change and were trying to reverse it, but would never be the same as they were before).
@goaded Yes, that's true, but wouldn't there be some permanent effects from the hormones if they change their minds?
I don't know. Possibly. How many people who start the therapy change their minds? How many later decide it was a mistake? How many who didn't have the option or left it "too late" will commit suicide? It's a trade-off. We're not qualified to say for sure, I can only hope that someone is!
Kids shouldn’t be allowed to change their gender at such a young age they are just kids let them be kids
Also I was watching this show where this person changed their gender at a young age as they got older they deeply regretted their decision They wanted to go back to being the sex they were born as they even started to hate and resent their parents for allowing them to go through the gender change the person said they should have been made to wait until he was older
yes, this is my point exactly. parents should have more common sense than this
sadly many Parents don’t these day it’s sad
I really don't get the hypocrisy of the far left who claim that children at that age are too young to consent to sex and yet somehow old enough to radically alter their body beyond repair.
good point
HAHAHAHA You make it sound like the kid is going to cut off his own penis with his 13 year-old friend. Kid's don't make that choice in a vacuum. The parents, doctors, psychiatrists, and counselors are all involved trying to do what is best for the kid for the rest of their life. It's not like it's a decision that gets made while two young teenagers are horny and hooking up at band camp.
Are people like you really this dense?
What the fuck? Is someone seriously using transgender people to make excuses for rape of a minor?
No I'm arguing that if a kid can't consent to sex, they shouldn't be able to consent to "transitioning" either.
This is a catch-22:
Transitioning is easier at the start of puberty, but you don't develop your best level of judgement until you're about 18 years old; newr the time you're done growing.
My opinion is: No. The parents have the final say. At 12, parents normally should have the authority to make decisions like that.
Was it bad that I wanted a sex change at that age but then everyone told me that I had to be 18 years old to get a sex change?
I support transgenderism. There is nothing wrong with it. I wouldn’t let my 12-year-old child get a sex change at that young. The child needs to get his or her hormones controlled before getting a sex change.
I feel they should be accepting of his sexual identification. But not let the transformation happen until he is of legal age. Some people know who they are at a young age, and some may be confused. Don't make them feel bad for feelings they can't control, but don't let it be a permanent change until they are old enough to legally make that decision on their own.
Most Helpful Opinions