i got this long passage from a book and i will admit, i have deep strong hatred resentment towards it but unfortuneately there is no way around it, i have felt that way for years that guys have to do all or most of the work, but apparently a guy is not supposed to see it as a work, he is not supposed to see it as a burden:
“Normally, you are the one who has to begin the initial conversation; you are the one who starts touching her, who takes her number, who calls her up, who tells her where to meet you for a date, who initiates a hug the next time you see her, who takes her to a café, who touches her hand across the table, who goes in for the first kiss, who leads her home, who undresses her, and so on through the many small steps all the way into bed. You are responsible for making things happen since you are the male, so advancing is all on your shoulders. Whenever you feel you are not getting anywhere with a woman, or that things are moving slowly, it is because you are not advancing. If you ever catch yourself thinking something such as, “I am not getting anywhere with this girl,” or “I do not know if she likes me,” then it is time for you to make a move. She will not do it, not even if she wants you, and if she does make a move then she is seducing you, not the other way around. If you are thinking, “Well, but if she wants me, why doesn’t she make a move?” it means you do not understand women very well, what they want, or that you as a male are expected to act like a male — and that she is thinking the exact same thing. All over the world, females grow more frustrated by the day because males they know are interested in them are afraid or do not know how to show it by making a move. Many males lose women because they fail to make a move when they have the chance. When you do have the chance but do not take it, the woman is thinking “Why isn’t he doing anything?” because her mindset does not include the option of doing something herself. She will start thinking that you do not like her, or she will park you in her let’s-just-be-friends spot and look for a real man.” W. Anton
I think that's true and it's unfortunate because it's so goddamn irritating.
But if you don't want to continue that cycle then just opt not to date women like that, even though that's about 98% of them.
Or just get drunk and stoned before every date to remove all your inhibitions
yup, its a burden, and i hate it whenever people say us guys have the better deal or we have it easier, they always say things like "this role gives you choice, women don't have choice, you don't have to do the waiting", got it makes me so angry and frustrated
I don't find it a burden because for the most part I just don't participate, it's only a burden if you feel obligated to do it. It's just irritating because it means most women aren't really compatible with me, I want someone who isn't passive 100% of the time
@frozenhorizon i can't stand it when girls flake, i got 2 girls phone numbers from Plentyoffish lately, they agreed to meet up with me for a first date but they flaked on me
Yeah that happens a shitload, that's happened in about 80% of the cases where a girl starts talking to me.
@frozenhorizon starting talking to you, as in she initiates conversation with you first? or makes the first move in other ways? has it happend when you have reached out to them first?
It happens either way, it doesn't matter who started talking to the other first, lol.
@frozenhorizon ya well the burden of breaking the ice generally falls on the guys shoulders
ya it can feel like an injustice
Traditionally they don't and this has become so ingrained into our culture that girls know they don't have to ask him out in most cases. In turn this means they don't learn to handle rejection as well as guys (learn that it's the norm even if you do everything "right"), so even if they try it once or twice they'll stop soon enough.
Since girls weren't traditionally expected to take initiative in relationships, there are a few reasons why making the first move can feel more complicated for us (not that it isn't hard for guys; I know it is).
One is that since guys are typically expected to make the first move, sometimes we'll assume that if he doesn't approach us, that in itself means he's not interested. So it can be extra confusing to try to figure out whether or not we have a chance with a guy.
Another aspect of this is just mindset. Girls aren't told to play the role of the pursuer, and they're not trained to go after what they want and to deal with rejection. Being turned down may sometimes be harder on us simply because we're not used to it and society doesn't prepare us for it, nor does it respect us in spite of it. For me at least, there is almost a shameful aspect to it. Girls can fear that they'll seem pathetic or desperate if they make the first move. And being rejected can be extremely can easily make a girl think "well, that's what I get for trying to make the first move".
But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't work together as a society to battle these complications and work for more equality in the dating game.
It's traditional that we don't. I'm personally a traditional type. But I've also personally noticed that I end up never getting the guy I want through that. I have had to tell my last two boyfriend's that I liked them. Only one guy has told me else wise. Granted I still didn't ask them out. More like I said it's okay for them to ask me. I grew up with the traditional thought. Personally I find it more romantic. And fyi, you ask her out not only puts you on her radar (because regardless she will pay attention to your more) but gives you more brownie points. Girls appreciate it a lot, at least women do. I love chivalry, I wish it wasn't dying. I wish people weren't killing romance. But, that's today's world. Regardless, kudos to guys that still practice chivalry and romance! Please never let it die!
With that kind of mindset men will continue to get rejected and lose hope all together.
@BubbleQueen
You are entitled to your opinion. But, I still stand by mine. <3
It depends on the girl. Some girls just prefer the old fashion route when it comes to courting. Most times like anyone they are afraid to be vulnerable and be rejected. Sometimes a simple hi can make a girl open up and eventually with enough conversation ask the guy out.
Very nice response
I don't know, I personally think that if you want something so bad, you should go out and get it instead of pouting like a baby that it didn't fall in your lap.
Wrong, it's more deeper than that, i want to ask girls out but i can't, i have a phobia called love-shyness and i'm not trolling, it's true, you can look it up.
@sweetshyguy Uh, I don't see how my opinion, which has zero relation to you, is wrong just because you're too scared to approach girls. I'm talking about women approaching men and this is my opinion. So... yeah.
Ohh you were talking about women, sorry.
@sweetshyguy Yeah... the question is about women...
I apologize, i didn't want to upset you.
@sweetshyguy Lol you couldn't upset me if you tried, I was just baffled.
Ohh i couldn't if i tried, that means you are a very peaceful easygoing girl.
@sweetshyguy I wouldn't say that. I'd say more like I don't give a shit. Lol.
Here is the field in which RJGraveyTrain grows her fucks. You will notice it is bare.
Lmao
And i never try to upset anybody however some people get angry just by looking at me.
@sweetshyguy wow that is some excuse. Every guy is freaked out about asking women out. eventually, you just have to nut up and do it. the more you do it, the easier it gets. The only reason it is hard when your younger is because everything revolves around sex. When you get to my age, and don't give a shit about sex, it is easy as can be.
Opinion
24Opinion
ya what bothers me and fills me with rage is whenever girls say "because guys are hunters" or "he's the hunter"
but very likely i probably grew up with a dominant mom and submissive father, i hate gender roles with a huge passion but sadly they are not going away, thats another thing that has bothered me for a couple of years now and i believe its true, it seems that a guys parental upbringing, childhood socializing, environment, impacts his dating life/sex life, interactions with the oppossite sex more than the other way around. These quotes make sense but that doesn't mean i enjoy being dominant, here it is:
“Becoming a man is a process, while a girl may mature into a women simply by biologically aging it is not the same with men. Many males die still boys, even if their biological age may be 100.”
Girls naturally mature into women, they don’t have to do anything to do so. However with a man he must be initiated into manhood by other men. A woman cannot turn a boy into a man, ever. Doesn’t matter how good her intentions are or how loving, caring, or whatever a woman is. It is biologically impossible for a woman to raise a boy into a man", "Women are Born, Men are Made"
@hahanoway females hunted as well? would love to hear more about that, but i know that in Lions, which are also mammals like us humans are, the females do the majority of the hunting
Amen. I would LOVE to have a woman come after me like I am expected to go after women. I decided to take a break from dating this past year and just do things that I want to do. But I left my profile online and decided if a woman sends me a message, I will pursue it. I have had 4 messages in the last year. Only 1 was worth answering. Never heard from her again. lol.. women want "equality" but not in many areas, and NOT in dating. They don't want to do the asking. They sure don't want to do the paying.
That's a good question. I wish girls were more forward with asking guys out. I'm not vevery good at picking up on flirting or telling if a girl likes me and I don't have a lot of confidence when it comes to approaching girls or even just talking to girls I like. Because of this I've never asked a girl out and my only relationship started because a girl told me she liked me. I know the confidence thing is my problem to get over, but I'm with you that I think more girls should approach guys. A lot great relationships have probably never happened because a girl didn't want to approach a guy.
If it's the guy who asks you out, you feel more secure and confident because you are more sure that he likes you.
However, asking a guy out also can give you a confidence boost, since you know you were brave enough to face rejection.
I've only asked 2 guys out, but mostly it's been the other way around. Don't know why. Maybe it's just more comfortable to be on the recieving end of it for me.
Times are changing, though.
I haven't asked a guy out but I gave a guy I've been talking to for months my number. He never called he said we talk all the time face to face. I think women don't ask guys out cuz that means the guy really isn't interested. If the guy was interested he make the first move.
It's always been a tradition for a Guy to ask a Girl out however I believe it is now not as uncommon as it's used to be. Girl likes Guys are scared of rejection and are quite conscious of themselves and potentially embarrassing themselves.
Girls do ask out Guys however it is still uncommon however it depends on the individual.
Women want equality on their part or when it suits them. It doesn't matter to them if it's unfair to men becuase its all part of feminism's sexual strategy.
This is why I quit dating and went mgtow. The dating paradigm is just soo unfair and unequal to men. Would you participate in something where the rules are unfair to you? Exactly my point.
It basically boils down to the fact that women would rather let laziness and/or fear make them miss out on something potentially great instead of letting themselves be vulnerable and risk getting what they want. In essence, they're weak.
I have, but guys just get way too big headed because of it. The guy could be your average Joe, rejected by most girls but still will get all cocky just because you asked him out and will milk it for what it's worth.
I'm very humble and need to be asked out because i'm timid but the advantage of guys like me is that we don't cheat.
sometimes most girls just prefer the stereotypical way where the guy asks the girl out some girls feel more comfortable with that but it would depend on the girl i would know because I've been through the stage of myself waiting for a guy to ask me out when i could just do it myself but if any girl wants to ask a guy out go for it and if someone judges you so what it's just the person you are
Well I'm thinking of asking out my guy friend tomorrow, but I'm worried it'll make him less interested
While there are some guys that might get turned off, normally the really manly men, most would find relief from not having to ask and face rejection themselves. I doubt he will be turned off most guys would appreciate not having to ask themselves for a change.
Well two factors come into play here. If he is a manly man who does all kinds of manly stuff he has a decent chance of being turned off by your advances. It is the same if he is someone who really enjoys trying to court people himself. Most guys enjoy a break from the stress that is fear of rejection though. Go with your gut on whether you think he is me of the few modern men that wouldn't like being asked out by a love interest.
that's not how guys work, if he likes you, he'll agree to basically anything, it's not like with girls where a guy loses value by showing a vulnerability or two
@Deconstruction
I agree.
"ruin the chase" here is where you're screwing yourself up. Guys do not generally enjoy the 'chase'. Maybe a small fraction of guys do, because they see conquering a woman as a challenge and feed their ego by successfully getting a woman into bed. But most guys don't live for the 'chase'. Most guys don't even see it as a chase. I bet this guy has no idea that he's supposedly chasing you. We're human too and when we find out someone likes us we all react to it a bit differently. But you're not ruining a chase because the chase is bullshit perpetuated by players. Your crush is shy, if he likes you he is gonna be happy that you asked him out. End of story. End. Of. Story.
End
Of
Story
The reason players get turned off when someone spoils the chase is because the woman or the sex are sorta secondary. The real reason they are chasing women is to feed their ego. It's a game to them. Their objective is to find a girl who wasn't really all that into them, but perhaps willing to hear them out, and change her mind. It only feeds their ego because it's a challenge. When a girl makes the game too easy, they are not proving their sexual prowess. They aren't showing their friends or their ego that they have all the right skills and moves. They aren't charming and conning their way into anything, so the rush isn't there. They're not proving anything to themselves or anyone else, because when it comes down to it the girl was already willing. So it's more good fortune than good skills. It's like winning a game because someone let you. No fun. No challenge. No domination. The sex or the woman aren't the goal, winning is the goal and the woman is the trophy.
It's society's conditions, sadly. But if you put Dan Howell in front of me I wouldn't hesitate to ask him out, actually I think I'd have an orgasm from just looking at him.
Ok seriously why the fuck won't the picture show up... Ugh just search Dan Howell for fucks sake
Fear of rejection, and the average guy would bang anything that moves, so there's really no reason for them to do anything.
Though if she likes me more than I like her, make a move and impress me or buzz off.
I don't do that because I can't cope with rejection. Also, I am too self conscious about my looks.
you know what they say, after 10 20 times, it don't hurt no more baby lol.
@BertMacklinFBI Hahaha well said.
Well, due to age and preferences, I can't say we'd go far. But I'd at least give you the time of day. It'd be more an outing than a date, but I would look for common ground. I care about the women in my life - even if I can't *have* them, per se.
They do it in Nordic country / some west European country (Germany, netherland, Denmark, Sweden, etc...).
Girls don't do it because if they do the guys think she's easy and doesn't want to go out with her. They like to pursue the girl, etc...
@hahanoway Yes, that's their culture I even heard that the guys never asked the girls out because they're too shy
When I was in Sweden I was pretty amazed by the number of hotties that would approach guys haha. It was pretty cool.
I don't necessarily think they never ask out girls because they are shy (granted, Swedes are shy in general, not just men), but because they are raised without gender roles. If you stop telling guys that you have to be "brave" in order to be considered manly and if you stop telling girls that you have to be "passive" in order to be considered feminine, then you'll see that the fear of being rejected is present in both genders as well as that there are assertive people in both genders.
@hahanoway Yes, that's true. I think it's better in Sweden how things work generally. They are not like American to be between the modern or the gender roles this is really confusing and make things hard for both girls and boys. In my country it's more around gender roles. I tried to ask some guys out sometime but they told me they prefer to pursue a girls and all.
In Sweden like that you can ask the guy you find cute without having to send multiple message to come talk to me all night. This is easier
@hahanoway In France, not really but I never been attracted to guys who asked me out and guys I liked never asked me out / notice me so I through it was easier this ways. I discover it was not and that guys liked the chase. One guys in my class asking a girl 6 month to go on a date with him until she agree.
@hahanoway That's quite common here. South east. Where do you live?
Because of what society thinks is best and appropriate, which is quite annoying. I suppose... :\
All this time we've been wired that the men have to ask out the woman.
I don't because I'm shy and extremely afraid of being rejected. I think a lot of other girls don't because they aren't really expected to or feel the guy should approach.
its because girls don't give a damn about guys. so girls come up with all kinds of lame excuses to support it.
Equality is the right way to go, some guys and girls are shy which proves men and women are the same shit.
Short answer, girls are cowards and can't handle rejection
Actually they do a lot, but not in cultures where men are brainwashed into chasing after women and putting them on a pedestal.
Simply because they don't have to, if men stopped asking women out, then they would have to start doing it.
Canada is even worse. Women are actually becoming more forward in the US- especially in some parts
But why is that a problem?
@musicbrain5 i dont think it is. I don't ask guys out either.
@musicbrain5 well would you say it's 'equally' fair for women to start approaching men and investing in a partner also?
No. I'm tired of this equal shit. Stop blaming everything on feminism. Guys do that more than girls even
Oh ok. I think I misunderstood your answer.
@Mrwoo99: Yes actually. The problem is that so many women only want equality when they benefit from it.
@musicbrain5 indeed, feminism is driven by self entitlement, mass privilege and female supremacy. It's all one big sexual strategy.
Enough said
Because the women are all bisexual free spirits. They're on a journey and if you don't grow a pair, you won't be with them.
Shyness and fear of rejection as well as the fact that really society doesn't expect it
Because women are branded as desperate if they approach. Silly, I know...
True.. the one guy I approached made me feel like that lol never again
In Europe it's a lot better. In the US it's hopeless. American girls are right out of the stone age
@hahanoway in the Basque Country
Because men are more suitable to propose it is more like traditions
Because that's not really the feminine gender role.
Cause we're supposed to be gentlemen and do it to show we like them so there feelings aren't wrong
I would... or at least go on Tinder and initiate.
Why? same reason men don't fear of rejection.
Men fearing rejection is why every guy doesn't just stroll up to every woman he wants to ask out with confidence. Most men fear and and hate rejection. Presumably women fear and hate it just the same but the difference is no one calls them a pussy for their fear.
but your question wasn't why do women hold themselves to a different standard than men it was "Why don't more Women ask Men out?"
I was correcting the misconception men aren't afraid of rejection. I a really think you are probably mostly right about why women don't aka men out more. Women are scared of rejection just like men
Yeah I've always resented it as well too
Because that's not how it works.
society tells them that the man is supposed to
Societal norms.
You can also add your opinion below!
Girl's Behavior 
Guy's Behavior 
Flirting 
Dating 
Relationships 
Fashion & Beauty 
Health & Fitness 
Marriage & Weddings 
Shopping & Gifts 
Technology & Internet 
Break Up & Divorce 
Education & Career 
Entertainment & Arts 
Family & Friends 
Food & Beverage 
Hobbies & Leisure 
Other 
Religion & Spirituality 
Society & Politics 
Sports 
Travel 
Trending & News 
Most Helpful Opinions