"Shy Guys" and "Nice Guys" Doomed to be Single Forever And If So...Whose Fault Is It?

[rainman]

I'm seeing a lot of the same sort of responses from guys on the internet in regards to this subject (especially here on GAG).

I know that with movements like MGTOW gaining steam, there's plenty of hatred and hostility rising up from the male community and most of it is directed toward women. I know MGTOWers will try to explain that they don't "hate" women and maybe they don't, I don't know. I'm not a member. I also don't believe that every last member is just a "butt-hurt ugly guy who couldn't get laid." There IS some precedent for this group, as we've seen women take the reigns in the past few decades and there are so many aspects of our society that give females the undisputed edge. Our divorce courts are a joke at this point, right?

At the same time, I think it's fair to say that a lot of complainers out there are "shy guys" or "nice guys" or men who claim to be "gentlemen," only they continue to get rejected by women. Or so they say. I have a suspicion that a lot of them flip out over one or two bad experiences and then condemn an entire gender as being manipulative and even inherently evil (as if that makes any sort of biological or rational sense). Therefore, I wonder if a lot of these guys are like MGTOWers in training, or they're simply going to be single forever.

Some say they're perfectly fine with that while others really loathe their situation. I suppose the real question is: Whose fault is it, really?

Yes, we can place a lot of blame on the women of today, as they're certainly in the driver's seat and can dictate. They're the ones who can just whisper rape and ruin an innocent man's life; they're the ones who get it all in a divorce; they're the ones who never really have to approach guys and still not worry too much about getting dates. I can see why the "nice guys" who always fail at the dating game are frustrated and even angry.

But nothing is ever black and white in this life, right? There's plenty of blame to go around.

For example, 18-year-olds swearing off women forever is just so comically stupid, it's not worth listening to. When you're 18, you have no clue what you want or what's going to happen in your life, though every single 18-year-old (myself included, at the time) is firmly convinced they DO know it all and that none of their views will change. You have so little experience with women and life in general, making ANY lifelong vow is just asinine. And extremely immature, by the way.

Secondly, guys who lump every woman into the same "evil" group aren't doing themselves - or females - any favors. They can't honestly believe every single woman is the same, can they? Their philosophy of avoidance and exclusion seems to be based on a few basic precepts and supposed "truths" that they believe applies to every female alive. If it weren't for this mass generalization, I'd be more inclined to give these "shy guys" and "nice guys" the benefit of the doubt. But it just sounds like they're "shy" because they have no luck with women and consequently, it somehow ALL the woman's fault and ALWAYS is. Something is off there.

Thirdly and lastly, I think we can all agree that young men today are suffering from a far-reaching self-esteem and self-image plague that's just crippling their social ability. Yes, I do believe that women are partly responsible for this problem. Partly. It's still up to every individual, male or female, to determine their own self-worth and if you're going to bitch and whine about how girls walk all over you, but refuse to change even the slightest bit, you're part of the problem. This gives you license to say all confident guys are "douchebags" or something, which makes you feel better and puts more blame on women ("they always go for the douchebags!") but in reality, you just didn't step up.

There are a lot of issues with male/female relationships these days. There are some good things about MGTOW, I believe. But when these legions of self-proclaimed "nice guys" all seem to complain of the exact same thing - a total inability to get women - you have to ask a few tough questions. Don't you?

And really, in general, guys need to lighten the hell up. Stop being so dramatic. MGTOW people and guys who generally swear off women try sound rational, but their hostile rantings only reinforce the stereotype that they're all socially inept teens still living in their parents' basements, who got rejected by one girl and totally lost their shit. It's not true? Then do us all a favor and stop acting like it.

[GraveTruth]

But the problem is it IS womens fault completely. Men are doing nothing wrong.

Women are always mentioning values such as loyalty, empathy, sensitivity, support, faithfulness, and moral integrity but the types of guys that women find appealing are the opposite.
Woman are also breaking up with men for all of these weak and faggy personalities for the "cool black guy, the hot tall guy" etc.

In modern times it has gotten so bad that men are stepping down from making an effort and just trying to grab one as a girlfriend.
Women have found a way to become blameless while judging men. Men are blamed for being too nice and too rude.

It has gotten way out of hand. The climb of men wishing they were women and even actively trying to switch over is climbing yet it's unheard of for a woman to try to be a guy.
Also extremely shallow things such as sugarbabies and financal domination women have come out and are not even judged for it.

And lastly labels such as (BBW) Big Beautiful Woman exist yet no woman has created any (BHM) Big Handsome Man label.

The heck with this. I'm not taking the blame for what woman are doing. Men already do that enough.

[dwright0943]

I see men make way more shittier choices than women do. So men actually are @ fault.

[GraveTruth]

@dwright0943 Men are at fault for being judged by women for being too geeky, too short, too nice, too friendly, too poor, etc, etc.
I guess men can't win.

[dwright0943]

What about the good 'n' respectful women that ALWAYS went for the good 'n' respectful men, and NEVER ONCE went for the wrong guys, but yet STILL gets overlooked by the worthless undeserving chicks that don't even deserve nor appreciate the right guy? What about those ones. Pretty sure those good 'n' respectful women are never @ fault. Stop confusing the good women that yoy always overlook for the wrong women that you always blindly ignore the right women for.

[dwright0943]

*for

[dwright0943]

*you

[GraveTruth]

@dwright0943 those women don't exist because if you are a woman you just need to stick your thumb out and you've got a bunch of guys trying to date you. Women do not have troubles dating.
the only time they have troubles is when they choose to say no to everyone or are not approachable.

[dwright0943]

Funny. Because I exist. And I only have trouble with dating, and the only reason why I hardly ever get a man is because it's very hard to find someone who matches someone as rare as me. So no, unless I am like MOST women, I don't have it easy. So fucking sick if guys saying women like me don't exist. But thanks. Guess I'm a fucking myth right? And I never once did ANYTHING wrong to not have the right guy go for me. Yes. I do get guys chasing after me, but NONE are the ones that are right for someone like me. Just some fakes DISGUISED as the right guy. Women like me "don't exist", because we get overlooked for the super hot 2-faced chicks that keep screwing you nice guys over for some douchebag, and yet you guys STILL choose them, leaving us good women to feel like we are only good enough for the assholes, because @ least they show some bit of interest in us. While no good guy ever did. So please stop blaming some of us good women that has never once been chased after a good guy.

[GraveTruth]

@dwright0943
Alright. You are talking about a trashy bar scene though. The man who goes for the super-hot two faced girl is drunk. Guys don't want to be with them for a relationship. Of course in some nightclub the hottest chick is going to get the attention.

Secondly, you proved my point. You are complaining that guys are not jumping at you but you still have not commented on if you did the approaching and how it would work out.
Mainly because you DON'T have it hard. You are sitting on the curb complaining but at any moment you can approach guys and everything will be fine.

[dwright0943]

You obviously didn't throroughly read through what I just wrote. What about the good guys that blindly fall for the wrong women? And I NEVER have it easy. And I ALWAYS make the 1st move on the right guys. But when do they ever make the 1st move on me? Never. So if anything I have BEEN EARNED for them to chase after me for once. So can you please stop telling to do something that I am already doing.

[Deannybeamswe]

@dwright0943 You can be sick all you want of basically being overlooked for men not seeing what kind of value you can bring to a relationship. How you feel when you're confronted with that view is basically how a man feels when you generalize his gender into believing men make more fucked up decisions than women.

I don't hate women. Far from that pathetic shite. But honey, as far as bad decisions go... both women and men take equal blame. You need to wake up and see that.

[writing_essays]

Nice guys who are genuinely nice and not pretending to be nice to get laid are EXTREMELY desirable to woman. Most guys who think they are nice guys are merely impostors who think pretending to be good will get them the hot girl of their dreams. I would sacrifice almost anything for a nice guy and most of my female friends are the same way. Shy guys are extremely popular with woman when they are classy, reliable, dependable, responsible and intelligent. I knew a very shy guy with a 95% average in math and now he is making big dollars and extremely popular with woman. If you are intelligent, hard working and conservative - your social skills won't matter that much.

[ayylamo]

But if you are actually shy and don't talk to girls then how would they ever know about any of your good qualities? I don't think a genuine shy guy can be "popular with woman".

[writing_essays]

Even if you are shy if you have a circle of friends and they know that you are successful and dependable or can introduce you to somebody they know or are related to then you can get a girl.

[frozenhorizon]

haha not my friends

[sois_pas_basic]

@ayylamo Females have FBI level stalking skills, so you'd be surprised by how much we're capable of finding out sometimes.

And you don't have to be popular with women; you just need to attract the right woman.

[Realworldweegee]

Sure some guys are only acting. But for those of us that honestly are shy nice guys. We have to take the abuse because women are such poor judges of character. Have you any idea how upsetting it is to hear a girls say things like "Oh my god, I've been single for nearly a year now. Guys are such pigs." Meanwhile I'm sitting hear contemplating suicide because I've gone nearly 10 years and girls can't be bothered to give me the time of day. You ladies control the dating scene. But you have next to no real perspective of it.

[btbc92]

They are NOT DOOMED to be single forever! It's all based on choices! If their shallow minded and want attractive girls, or course they will more likely be single. They ignore the good girls and want the drop dead gorgeous ones nearly every guy in the area has their eyes on! If he eyes were never on you, then move on and find a girl who does have eyes out for you and YOU only. I'm really am ashamed of my gender who does such things to mock men who are good and genuine but yet they lack knowledge, wisdom, and meekness. Something that guys ARE attracted to. But both parties are equally responsible for how they treat the other as well as themselves.

"18-year-olds swearing off women forever is just so comically stupid, it's not worth listening to. When you're 18, you have no clue what you want or what's going to happen in your life..." This is far from the truth. Life is about decisions. And I even take that as an offence when I hear such sayings from people that young people don't know what they want or that being celibate or choosing the life of celibacy is 'comically stupid'. It's not. It's very serious. Understand that people like me who is a woman have also sworn off dating and is celibate myself. It's my choice. But only because:

1. I prefer being single
2. I feel inadequate for modern dating, let alone marriage
3. Love being a virgin
4. Is physically not well
5. Conflicting views and beliefs
6. Been complained by more than enough guys, and many don't bother considering me anyways.

So if these guys have a similar problem as I do, you can't all the time blame them for swearing off of women. Women are very crafty and just as manipulative as men. Today dating isn't what it used to stand for in courtship. Now instead of genuine love, people getting married, and waiting for marriage to have sex. Its 'till I'm finish using you: financially, sexually, emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually and psychologically. Or get bored' and its 'I'm with you cuz I feel like it, and because you have a rocky bod'. If that is the attitude of many people. I'm glad I stayed out of it. And yes, it's in churches too which is even worse.

[Mrwoo99]

So you agree that men should go mgtow away from you whores?

[Fathoms77]

@Mrwoo99 You won't be calling women whores for no reason around here.

[Mrwoo99]

@Fathoms77 The true nature of female hypergamy is women only fuck the highest bidder.

[Mrwoo99]

@Fathoms77 All women are whores until proven otherwise

[btbc92]

@Mrwoo99

Who are you calling a whore? Women have choices like men have choices. 1st of all, you don't know me. 2nd of all, I'm celibate and a virgin as I have stated before. And no, I don't have a whore mentality. Get your facts straight. I don't agree with that MGTOW. That is a group of men who grew to eventually hate women and its fostering insecurities. If they wanted to remain celibate, fine. But that also means no porn and no masturbating either. You have real serious issues calling women whore's. I'm no harlot! I'm sure not squeaky clean yourself.

[Mrwoo99]

What are you talking about? that must of been the biggest misconception of mgtow I have ever heard in my life. I still watch porn, masturbate and fuck high class escorts... I just dont want a relationship because why they are all trash and whores so I rather just fuck women only because thats all their worth.

[Fathoms77]

@Mrwoo99 Consider yourself warned.

[Paul34]

I got a question, is not having a proper relationship (I've had casual sex before but not a proper relationship) considered me being doomed single forever?

[btbc92]

@Paul34

it depends on his views and the views of the person he is interested in. I am not attracted to men who engage in casual sex and does so lightly. I don't even agree with premarital sex of ANY kind before marriage. Nor those who agree in that sexual compatibility nonsense. That is not somebody I need nor want in my life. That is why I am single or should I say celibate. And as I have stated before, I have no problem being alone all my life. I've done so nearly 25 years of my life. I can do another 25 years or however long I have on this earth.

So again. Remember that YOUR choices today, in the past and now will affect your future in the long run. That is why I always tell girls as well as guys, but mostly girls since its more of a asked question: That there will always be a chance that they will be attracted to somebody who wants her to be a virgin for marriage, and will reject her if she's not. Then she would be stuck with those decisions now.

[btbc92]

So the choice is yours. It depends on how much you really want to be with that person, and what you will sacrifice along the way. For love requires sacrifice of your wants for the needs of the other. If that girl needs her husband to be a virgin or with less partners and is willing to wait for sex, that is what she needs. And depending on your choices it will be either a make or break. You either qualify or you don't. That's what dating is about. The problem of why people fail in dating is because they figure it's about fun and games and using the person. They don't really care about you. It's what they can obtain out of you.

[Paul34]

I don't pursue girls anymore because I'm scared of LTRs and marriages. I don't want to be the "next cow" in line waiting to get "butchered".

[btbc92]

@Paul34

You just need more time for yourself. But using women for sex will just fuel your insecurities more. Marriage is not the problem. Relationships with women are not the problem. It's the type and kind of WOMEN you attract or is attracted to. There are genuine women out there. But you have to be that genuine man who is deserving of such good women. You can't be that when you're having casual sex. To love is to sacrifice as I said. There is no need for you to have sex when you desire to be alone. Women are not sex tools just as men aren't. We are living breathing creatures who have to live by a certain order. Abusing sex is abusing yourself and the person you have that with. But the choice is on you to decide how will you live your life.

[bcromartie]

You guys need to stop thinking like this. This shit is not only unhealthy it's completely false and easily demonstrable.

So young people overreact and generalize, that's a summation of points 1 and 2, fine because ironically this in and of itself is an overreaction and generalization. It is what it is.

My problem is with point 3. "It's still up to every individual, male or female, to determine their own self-worth..." This is completely false. It's actually not even hard to imagine; take a kid, any age, and tell them they are stupid. Just repeat that. Make sure that you drill that into their heads. It doesn't matter if their IQ is 200 they will think, no matter what, that they are stupid. This is important though because it means that your self-worth is NOT determined solely by you.

The reality is that this opinion is predicated entirely on this one element alone. Nothing else really matters in it because again, 1 & 2 are just "young people overreact and generalize" which is a given due to how humans categorize events. This and you've made a grievous error:

"... and if you're going to bitch and whine about how girls walk all over you, but refuse to change even the slightest bit, you're part of the problem."

You should NEVER mix self-efficacy with behavior. They do not match. You can have a person who appears very confident but actually is very shy and vice versa. Your behaviors are not outward reflections of your internal stability or personality; this again is easily seen with children who act tough from abusive homes and grow up that way and never ever change from that mentality. Their entire survival is based out of fear but they exude power and to some extent violence.

You can't tell men to lighten up and then condemn them to self-management and essentially state that their frame of mind, which is already fragile from just being young humans, is their whole responsibility and that they need to "step up" (that is, make a decision, a commitment to a solid state of belief, which is how they get to their poor conclusions to begin with. You just disagree with their commitment to the ideal they chose) but then offer ridicule for actually stepping up!

You are the source of where these people actually come from. You're offering a completely false promise of basically "when you man up you'll get somewhere!" which is simply not true at all. Mating isn't that simple.

"Nice/Good Guys" are born specifically from mistaking Behavior for Self-Efficacy.

[Fathoms77]

"Your behaviors are not outward reflections of your internal stability or personality."

Not 100%. But saying actions are never tied to personality or stability is... well, asinine.

[bcromartie]

The entire concept of lying, especially being able to lie well, is based entirely on this disconnect.

If a person does something they would not normally be inclined to do for the sake of an end goal that doesn't necessarily leave them the greatest benefactor and pretends to enjoy it for the sake of the greatest benefactor that is the same thing.

In common English: Going to a party as a +1 that you're not interested in for the sake of your friend.

But no, not 100%, there is a limit (hopefully) where a person will act in their own favor to their own personality and a certain level of stability required to function.

[cth96190]

I think that there is some validity to what @rainman stated about young MGTOW reacting to a true forced loneliness (TFL) situation.
I was MGTOW years before there was a name for it and I will confess that a large part of my motivation, at the time, was that I was a TFL and a resented the hell out of women as a collective.
During my teens and 20s I could almost not get a date. I saw girls throwing themselves at one abusive loser after another, while, at the same time, any conversation that I had which did not involve the girl using the words 'fuck off' or 'fuck off, you freak' was counted as a success.
My problem (if that is the correct term) was that my mother raised me to be an old-fashioned gentleman, which was reinforced by the Australian Army's officer training school.
By the time that I was 30, I could add being a television and radio presenter and an electronic and print journalist to that list.
The result was that while a clean-cut young man who had manners, military bearing and a promising career might have been a winning combination in the dating market during the first half of the 20th Century, those attributes were as popular as leprosy during the 1970s and 1980s.
That was the era of long hair, flannel shirts and looking as though one slept rough in the park.
I could write a book about the unhappy experiences I had in the pursuit of females. Such as, making a date with the daughter of the church management committee and, when I arrived to collect her at her new flat, she was rutting like a demented weasel with a biker whom she had met that afternoon.
Then there was my one girlfriend, who (I discovered later) used me for a year to hide from her parents that she was maintaining a secret relationship with a bad boy of whom they disapproved.
By the time that I was 30, I was done. I walked off the plantation and kept on walking.
By the time that I was 35 women were hitting on me, asking me out and more, but I was and remain not interested.

[Mrwoo99]

Why what happened within your 30s onward? You said you couldn't get a dat back in your 20s

[Junlian]

I am a shy Christian male who is wise beyond my youth. I must agree that shy guys and nice guys can't hold there own. Here's why. Take look at this site, girls around you and other websites and look at there boyfriend troubles. Have noticed... Have you notice that these guys pay these girls no attention, they cheat on them, they lie, they eye other women and they put forth little effort to make things work. With nice guys this don't happen. BUT WAIT! We are seen as door matts if we let women have there way all the time and don't pass there shit test. So your screwed. In my life time I attract girl who want a quick screw while desired a relationship. They like me then play games then I dismiss them. Now days girls choose guys who ain't doing nothing for them besides his looks, money or she liked part of his personality but knew she can't stand the other half. What is going on that being nice ain't getting anywhere. IN ORDER FOR CHILVARY TO STAY ALIVE BADOYS HAS TO IT. Yeah cuz screw the guys who are shy and nice that does that stuff right. Yeah, ranting 101. But that's cool root out the bad plants to make room for good ones.

[Dim_121]

Most of them are not doomed but they do need to take a chance again and not be so depressed about it. If there is blame it is on both sides but it is mostly on women.
Most times if a guy likes a girl and she does not like him. She will be nasty about it cause it gets rid of the guy quickly. Most men are taught by bad experiences not to approach women. In highschool I learned that I should not approach a girl unless I new her pretty well. I was also teased way to much for being a nice gentleman. All of the independent women hated when I did something kind for one of the girls usually when I just did it cause I was being nice and I was taught to do things for woman as a gentleman.
Honestly I wish women could just be honest and say no sorry Im not interested. Instead of obviously lying or insulting me. Compared to those getting rejected is easy.
Most nice guys and shy women also need to learn how to be brave and flirt. The who poi t of flirting is to let the other know you like them. No one seems to want to or know how to these days.

[Anonymous]

Good take.

I'm someone that's never had any luck with women. I've only ever asked a girl out once. Suffice to say I wish her saying "no" was the worst that could happen. I've just never regained my confidence ever since and that was well over 7 years ago. I know it's no ones fault but mine that I haven't been in a relationship. I have always desperately hoped something would eventually just "happen" for me in regards to romance. But I've met a couple of people who have been celibate all the way into their senior citizen ages and it wasn't voluntary. And most of them said the reason was because they had too much anxiety and shyness to ever ask a girl out. So I see myself in them. I felt sick when I first thought about the idea that that would be me but now always feeling lonely for so long that the feeling itself is just apart of my identity. So if I end up like those other people I think I'll cope with it just fine. I'm not MGTOW. Because I don't have anything against women. I'm just a single person because of my inability to change who I am fundamentally.

[Blonde401]

You just have to put yourself out there. Women get rejected to you know? You're not alone. Just talk to people and get to know people without actually asking them out. Just make friends and widen your net and see what happens.

[Sholax]

As a self diagnosed shy/nice guy, I find that walking up to strangers and striking up a conversation can be seen as rude (puts me into an awkward place when it happens to me). My goal as a "nice guy" is to not be rude, therefore, I tend to avoid approaching random girls to flirt. It is my decision not to approach the girl and I really shouldn't expect her to even notice my existence if I don't. I would say that it is 100% my fault I don't have a girlfriend. I don't put in the minimal amount of effort it takes to get into a relationship. It's like expecting to get a job without sending out your resume. How would I expect the company to know if i'm interested if I never apply.

tl:dr My b :(

[Vertical807]

Want to know the solution to all of this?

Instead of trying to be a "nice guy," these men should strive to be good guys. Stop focus on "getting laid" and pitching the "nice guy" attitude and learn to become confident and not focus on this stuff. Do something that they have a passion for and actually contribute to the society.

Now that being said, I hate it when people brand all of MGTOW & MRA's as women haters, it's like me saying all feminists are men-haters. I'm not one, but they do strive to fix some of men's problems, such as stopping circumcision and getting rid of court bias giving men longer sentences than women.

Final thoughts: if these guys in MGTOW stop generalizing all women and actually get out and do something, this movement would be great.

[louiseisaturtle]

"Stop focus on "getting laid" and pitching the "nice guy" attitude and learn to become confident and not focus on this stuff." TRUE AMEN FOR THIS !

[Mrwoo99]

Men have to change but women don't have to change? Yet it's women who are the ones who need to change. Millions of men globally are waking up to and going MGTOW because the system is unfair and unequal to men.

[Vertical807]

@Mrwoo99 No ones saying women don't have to change, of course she does, relationships would never work if people didn't change.
Why do we need to change and we do they need to change? Feminism is cancer yes, but there are plenty of gals who know the 3rd wave is utter garabage.

[Anonymous]

I think guys need to just get over it. Guys don't get murdered or stabbed for rejecting women. Women aren't allowed to have preferences we're supposed to jump on every guy who treat us like human beings instead of second class citizens because that's where we still are in this society. There are nice women out there too, for the nice guys, but nice guys still have their preferences and can reject girls too I don't get why they think they're so fucking marginalized? Cause guys think women need to worship them because they hold the door? Lol just be a genuinely good person with an open mind and a great personality and respect women as people instead of measuring their worth by how fuckable we are and the right girl will come your way. I promise the world is not against you! You are not entitled to a woman's time simply because you THINK you're a "nice" guy.

[Chuck1991]

Im sorry I dont mean to troll you, but I have been trying to play the "Nice Guy" for years for me its not because I want women to worship me. I dont know where you would get that idea from, but it still hurts to be rejected for being nice. All I want to be able to do is please women but it seems there is no pleasing them. Like I get it, Women like "Confidence" obviously, but to be rejected for being the "Nice guy" does not seem nice to me.

[Chuck1991]

Also when I say "Trying to play the nice guy." I mean being the person who I am not anymore. There were things I was blind to in the past, but I have news for you not all men were born perfect. Some of us men out there grow up doing and saying things that influenced us in a bad way but learned better overtime. That is why try playing the nice guy because I dont want to be the person I used to be.

[Opinion Owner]

@Chuck1991 I agree with anon. And you can't "play" the nice guy, you just are or you aren't. You're saying that if any "nice" girl asked you out, maybe she's really ugly, you would give her a chance? Bc that's bs.

[Chuck1991]

Okay well let me guess, you dont believe men can change, but they do... thats your own opinion if you dont believe that. Also I never said I wouldn't want to be with someone who is nice but ugly did I? I would rather be with someone who is nice then be with someone who is concerned about their outer appearance and who is mean and shallow anyway.

[Chuck1991]

Like I said men can change, even if we learn things the hard way from experience. We just got to learn to admit when we were wrong, and of course I was wrong once upon a time and I learned from my mistakes. Oh and by the way not all men care about is sex. Men have feelings to besides lust you know just saying...

[Opinion Owner]

@Chuck1991 of course I'm not saying men can't change. I'm saying you can't "play" or "pretend" to be a nice dude bc deep down you're actually not. Nice guys don't boast about how nice they are, they just are lol

and I was just trying to make a point that nice guys are always blaming women for rejecting them, when those same nice guys reject nice girls all the time. I don't think anyone should be blaming you for the way you feel, I think it's unfair

[Chuck1991]

I see. I understand. You are absolutely right, and I dont mean to blame women it just seems the prettier ones are the mean and shallow ones and the ones who are different are the nicer ones and I would rather be with someone who is different than the prettier ones. About the playing the nice guy thing its not that I want something out of someone, I just dont want to be who I used to be anymore. I want to be a changed man and if that makes me a bad person then I dont know what else to say... I dont know sorry maybe It was the way I said it, but sometimes I tend to say things that people misunderstand or misinterpret. Anyways thank you for your input.

[Paul34]

Sorry, "Women aren't allowed to have preferences we're supposed to jump on every guy who treats us like human beings instead of second class citizens because that's where we still are in this society."? You basically called yourself a "whore" for one and second, "second class citizens"? Courts let you have alimony whether if you're a whore or not and you still call yourself a "second class citizen"? Realisitically, you don't deserve my respect because you've called yourself a "second class citizen". Fuck you, fuck any other whore who thinks she's a "second class citizen" and you don't deserve my income! Good day bitch!

[Opinion Owner]

@Paul34 thanks for proving my point :)

[Chuck1991]

@Paul34 Why are you starting drama bud? I would not be saying shit like that. Women are not whores. You know rejection is tough I know that for a fact and though experience but I do know and understand that women should be treated equally . So stop blaming women and get over yourself bud

[Paul34]

@Anon I'm not a nice guy nor a shy guy, did you read my post in the guy's section? I can be a total asshole! I'm not afraid to approach a girl if it's necessary, other than that I don't approach/pursue/initiate girls for any sex, relationships, friends with benefits, etc.

[Paul34]

@Chuck1991 "Why are you starting drama bud? I would not be saying shit like that. Women are not whores. You know rejection is tough I know that for a fact and though experience but I do know and understand that women should be treated equally. So stop blaming women and get over yourself bud"

What are you going to do? Call 9/11 and tell me to stop insulting women? Go play runescape since you haven't got any YET.

[Opinion Owner]

@Paul34 poor little baby

[Chuck1991]

@Paul34 Okay well being an asshole is not something to be proud of bud just saying...

[Chuck1991]

and just because you are not shy shouldn't give you the right to be an asshole either.

[Paul34]

@Anon how am I poor little baby? I don't want my money to be handed over to a whore.
Wow, I never knew beta males can be so easily brutalized.
@Chuck1991 Instead of being a "Nice Guy", why don't you just stay home and avoid all girls at all costs? A girl can naturally destroy you, y'know?

[Chuck1991]

@Paul34 Wow... You really are something else bud , but whatever... Go be a dick someplace else.

[Paul34]

@Chuck1991 I think I know how to curb your "nice guy" behaviour.

[Paul34]

How good is your libido? Seriously.

[Opinion Owner]

@Paul34 lmaoooo you sound like you're into panty pooping

[Paul34]

Seriously, I think his libido may be the problem. I've had the same thing but then I've took multivitamins (I still do) and my libido has increased.

[Paul34]

Since the end of highschool, I've realized I had low-T, I didn't get laid until college.

[Opinion Owner]

@Chuck1991 I suggest you stop entertaining this clown, he clearly has it all figured out. I think his pocket pussy left him for a less ashy dick.

[Paul34]

@Chuck1991 lol you better listen to what she says or you'll never get a piece of her.

[Paul34]

Holy shit, he's like my brother for real and my brother is a nice guy. A girl has pursued him and the girl has a boyfriend in the US.

[Chuck1991]

@Paul34 All I want to be is the nice guy but for "The right reasons." Not because I want something out of them, and I honestly think you shouldn't have to be a dick like how you are being right now. Now please take your drama someplace else...

[Paul34]

@Chuck1991 There isn't no "right reason", all girls are human beings. This isn't some "beauty in the beast" fairy-tale where you have to find her glass slipper and she'll fall in love with you.
@Anon what the fuck is a "pocket pussy"? You can have your pussy, all pussies are riddled with diseases. Who wants an aid-riddled whore like you anyways?

[Opinion Owner]

@Paul34 c'mon man you can do better than that! roast me daddy! Roast my sagging pussy!!

[Paul34]

Does it sag like your tits? ;)

[Opinion Owner]

@Paul34 I can wrap my labias around the world! I have it all bwahahaha!!!

[Paul34]

Eww, I'm good.

[Cosytoasty]

66.media.tumblr.com/.../...1wck1j1udh5n8o1_400.gif

I agree with literally every word, excellent take.

Here's where both outright nice guys and douchebags fall within women's preference.
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2178826-what-type-of-man-do-you-really-want

[vonasaurus]

very well said; my hat is off to you, sir. :)

there is a difference between a nice guy (generally a decent human being) and a "nice guy" (a misogynist who blames women for all of his problems).

i recall a conversation in which a former friend lamented his singledom by saying, "at the rate i've been rejected, i'm surprised i'm not murdering or mass raping women"; needless to say, he is no longer my friend (and, if i were to guess where he is now, he's likely 1) heading his own mgtow chapter somewhere or 2) in prison, because he followed through on his disgusting threats).

sure, guys like him are the exception and not the rule. but is it gross that we still have to deal with them in 2016? absofuckinglutely.

[everynametaken]

The difference is that one calls himself it and one acts like it

[VICTOR9212]

Both girls and guys have their insecurities and doubts, but deciding you give up on girls on 18 years old - thats childish. Some times i am discussed by some of my guy friends. Their all acting like overconfident ''bad boys''. Some times i wish i could shoot them all full of lead. Thats what i found out in the 19-20 period. Thats why i now i distanced myself from immature morons. Most guys say ''Why i didn't have a long relationship''. He acts like he owns her and when it ends he's like - WHY? Because ''being with'' and ''having'' are different things. No one can own another like their some object and like she's your property.
Sorry. I don't intend to take sides. There are some bad girls out there too, but most of them are more hurt than bad and thats just how things are. Some of my friends (female) got hurt by guys and i seen them ignoring others like those that hurt them in the past (not cause i told the to).

Overall awesome take :D

[Maddenis123]

Everything you said is true. But if things are not going right for you, then people need take 100 per cent responsibility for their lives, and stop blaming him or her for anything. The good guys, shy guys, that blame women for not having a girlfriend, are cowards.

At the end of the day, this world is a horrible place, and it will beat to your knees if you let it, ultimately the people that win, are the ones that take the most rejection. Life is a bit like a fighter, don't get in the boxing ring, if you can't take the hits, Yes you might have the hardest punch, but really that means jack shit in the fighting game. If your not winning any fights, then you have change your fighting game, and don't expect people to change theirs, so you can win. Same with getting a women. If want to get a women, then you have change something about yourself. The saying goes, A man should find himself, before he finds his women.

Good take, love it.

[Anonymous]

The main issue I see with men here on GAG is the fact that they're looking for A girlfriend, which means anyone will do and it only serves the purpose of letting them feel good. That's also the reason why they can go and ask out random women out. Most women don't work like this, don't do the same and aren't looking for the same, to much of these men's dismay and even anger.

Many of these men are also stuck on the idea that a relationship only favors women. I dunno how is it like in the US, but with an attitude like that they already lost.
The ironic part is that many claim they've given up on women, but would go back on their vows in a heartbeat if women actually payed attention. It's like the children dying to play with the other kids but playing hard to get because they don't have a special toy or the other kids don't beg them to. They want to be recognized for something like being nice, which should actually be a given.

[red324]

I don't ask random women out, but I do ask for their phone number so I can keep in touch if I approach a girl I like. So you're saying guys ask out random girls when they first meet them? Isn't that skipping a few steps ahead? lol

[Opinion Owner]

@red324 in my experience, most do. Very few men actually only ask me for my number, and even among those, most will ask me on a date in the first opportunity. Maybe because most people feel they would get to know you better on a face to face approach, rather than X days texting or calling?
I find that people who are actually interested in who you are actually take their time and give the other person time instead of speeding things forward, as exactly what you're saying.

[Opinion Owner]

Sorry, I missed some commas there.

[JohnDoeJr]

Actually most shy guys find someone. Just because they're not out partying and hooking up doesn't mean they'll be alone forever. (most people find someone)

The question of "whose fault is it?" is a bit pointed. Imagine if we were talking about overweight girls who were somewhat bitter about not getting asked out much and you told them "well, whose fault is it that you don't have as many prospects as the fit girls?"
Behavioral patterns are not as easy as you think to change (much like your weight and your temperament) Most extroverted people didn't sit down and tell themselves "you know what? I think I'll be extroverted from this day on."
Of course it doesn't mean people shouldn't work on themselves whether their issue is lack of healthy boundaries, weight issue, or debilitating anxiety/shyness. I'm just saying fault finding is not really helpful in this situation.

[FatherJack]

In a nutshell , in most species the female is the chooser , due to her much greater & riskier reproductive role , women nearly always choose the man. It is much harder for a man to attract / date / form a relationship with a woman than vice versa , but on the flip side , a man can always put in the work to make himself desirable , if he so chooses.

My current situation as a FT working single dad eliminates me from dating , & I'm well aware I am not a desirable prospect to most women, but that is the least of my priorities right now. A very large percentage of women are single by choice these days too.

[CloudyEmily]

AMAZING post. After personally being abused and 2 years of my life being just completely destroyed by a 'shy guy' who, before me always got rejected, this post is so refreshingly sane! If I want to take legal action against him, it's not because I''m 'evil', it's because he acted against me in a illegal manner (which I have proof of).

[TayTay21]

LOL a shy guy destroyed you? Doesn't sound like he was very shy at all. He must have really been a badass shy guy.

[CancerianMan81]

@CloudyEmily at you're profile pic but darkness isn't mightier than light

[CloudyEmily]

@TayTay21 lol yeah I guess you could call him that... a sort of quiet evil

[CloudyEmily]

@CancerianMan81 true.

[xee_a]

Great post mate. Life is all about choices. Some actions define you for the rest of your life. Thing which most guys don't realize is that you have to open up to the other party in order to make them understand you. Not everyone is a face reader. I am speaking up from personal experience. I haven't met a single so called "mean" lady in my life even when I used to be shy. Then someone really great came into my life and encouraged me to take the first step and my life is changed forever. Life is all about tiny little steps. Remember its a marathon not a sprint. Be patient and don't paint everyone with the same brush.

[castratedwhiteguy]

MGTOW's aren't always some kid with a bug up his ass because he got friendzoned by the love of his life. Many of these guys are older and have been raped in divorce court by wives who they gave everything they had to. FYI, marriage isn't forever anymore and women file for 70% of divorces; largely thanks to feminism. Personally, I think it's high time that today's guys started seriously questioning the rational of committing their limited resources to an uncertain future of husbandry and fatherhood...

[Anonymous]

You assume that it's the guy's fault though. Sometimes though SOME girls are just bad people lol.

Nothing wrong with being a good person. Put it this way, would you bang a girl who is an attention seeker and thinks she is hot? In the same sense a sane girl would not bang a bad person claiming to be alpha over a true alpha who happens to just be respectful.

Check out this question if u can www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2182612-how-d-a-woman-act-around-these-guys-do-they-allow-some-men-to-get