Not all men are like this. For 90% of our dates/times we went out, my ex would put in a good amount of effort (i. e., a buttoned up shirt (not a polo), nice pants, boats shoes, a watch and cologne.
Also, my current boyfriend 90% of the time puts in effort too. He likes to look good when we go out, and he always does too!
But, sometimes people like to be casual (especially here in America where it’s very common to dress casually!). I don’t ALWAYS put in extreme effort. Sometimes I want to wear something a little less dressed up too.
Not sure what generation you're referring to but I'll give my own personal take:) I graduated with about 20 guys I'd call friends. Strong guys, smart and ambitious, loads of potential. Every last one divorced, broke, depressed, lonely, dragging their pathetic asses through the rest of their pathetic lives except for the three who suicided. I'm not a mind reader but I assume they do not GAF. I also assume their sons are picking up on this vibe because it's not hard to miss. Whatcha dooin Saturday ;)
A lot of guys just don't know how to dress. I would go out with my boyfriend and his definition of nice was just really different. me=dark slacks, khakis and a nice shirt, button up, no flannel or logos. Him, dark jeans, a good pair of sneakers, and a flannel. But he put in effort :) so, I was happy. I think you can definitely be too picky, and as long as someone is trying, that's better than nothing :)
What does it even mean to be a man anymore? You look at the landscape of modern society and maleness is almost-universally frowned upon, as more and more institutions take on an intersectional feminist approach to gender relations.
"Men are rapists", "men are pigs", "men are predators", "men are evil", "#killallmen", "male privilege", and on and on. What message does this send to men? Men have absolutely no good role models to follow and they are the scapegoats for all the world's ills, so when women ask "where have all the good men gone?", I answer "where they are needed."
Women: don't objectify us. Also women: compliment us on our looks. What are guys supposed to say? The look you described, I think, is an actual fashion style. There is nothing wrong with dressing how you want and/or being comfortable. I'm sure he wouldn't have cared if she dressed similarly.
Why should men be gentlemen and old school? It isn't like the modern women is ladylike and old school. It isn't really fair in dating to ask for something your not.
Dont generalize! I clean up for dates, but I'm an Elder Millennial (1980's). Which generation are you really asking? Gen Z (1996-2010) have horrible dating expectations. If it's not on their phone it's not worth their time. Millennials (Gen Y) is split between the decades. Millenials born in the 80s care a lot more than Millennials born in the 90's. To give you a refresher on Millennials were born between 1980-1995. Gen X (1965-1979) seems to be Similar to millennials in that sense as well. Our parents generation and older (Baby Boomers) didn't grow up with technology so they were more old fashion. We still have it in the later generations it's just rare.
Why should a guy dress up? In the age of misandrist and toxic feminism why should i look nice for a woman? While yes i do dress up its not for the sake of the woman. Why should i wear a 1600 dollar suit to dinner for her sake? Do you have any idea how much dry cleaning is? Guys only dress up for special occasions. How many guys can afford such an expense? Ill let you in on a secret my italian cashmere suit was made by me on my sewing machine. If i were to buy just the jacket it be 4,000 usd. Dressing nice is very expensive prohibitively so. If she wants to dress up great good for her but unless its a special date the suit stays hung up in the closet. There is also a lack of men passing on the art of mens dressing. So that dont help.
The incentive and demand fell. I watched a video of a popular Youtube star going around to random women in the street showing pictures of him dressed in formal and casual wear and asked women to rate which one they preferred. Overwhelmingly, women chose the causal wear. Why? because men who dressed more casually gave off the vibe they were more comfortable with themselves and were less intimidating to women as the women wouldn't feel pressured to dress up to match them.
Not all men are gentlemen. When was it the last time you saw a 20+ year old guy wears a suit and shiny shoes? I got my first suit when i was 12 and i used to shine my own shoes and made them look like a million bucks. Now i have 4 suits and every single time am out with the wife or a close friend to a restaurant i wear a suit and shiny shoes.
You might consider that this guy has been on multiple dates with women who didn't try as hard as the one you saw him with. Women these days are of the mind that it's the man's responsibility to impress the woman, not the other way around, and definitely not mutually. I've been on lots of dates where I clearly put more effort into my appearance than my date did. I'm not saying this is absolutely the case. We can't know for sure. But if you're under the impression that the majority of young men are slobs for no good reason and the majority of young women are going to great lengths to impress them, you're tragically mistaken.
Rather then me write a paragraph I will ask you to do something then you will understand. That guy is just a one off who’s got no clue about romance. But if you want to know what has happened to us well here’s what I want you to do use any popular dating site or app or multiple up to you. Make a fake male profile of yourself with a random guys picture and try to get a date with any girl. After a few weeks you’ll understand why that guy sitting there with no effort was doing what he was doing. The short answer is a mirror gives you your answer look deep.
I personally do put effort in my appearance, fix my hair, shave, do hygiene stuff etc.. I still dress usual though, (well, I pick the stuff i think I look best in, but it's still usual clothing) because appearing in a suit etc. just makes the girl think I am a bussiness man and don't have time for her... If for example on the first date we decide to go to a more official place the second time, I would gladly dress up.
TL;DR: I think most girls think you are weird if you go to a date overdressed, because dressing official etc. has become unpopular.
"Don't you enjoy looking good any more? Looking good is a matter of opinion. I do casual. Always. Why should I wear crap that I don't like just because someone else thinks that's what you are "supposed" to wear?
"I'm glad I'm older because the likelihood is that the men in my life will be old school"
Contrary to what my profile says, I'm older than you (62). I came of age when the style was no style. It was busted up jeans, some kind of shirt, bare feet, and long hair. I've dressed pretty much the same my entire life. I know a heck of a lot of other people who have also.
If someone wants to play dress up, they are most definitely not the person for me.
I dress smart-casual. Usually jeans (jean shorts if its hot) and a t-shirt. Truth is that I turn up as the person I am. I hate wearing suits. I find them impractical and restricting. Me turning up dressed smartly and going to a super fancy restaurant wouldn't be a representation of who I am. I don't see why either side should sacrifice comfort for the sake of appearing smarter than they'd usually dress. If my girlfriend ans I go out, we sometimes dress smart and sometimes we don't. I don't think everyone needs to dress smart all the time.
Obviously, times have changed. If we like it or not. Stagnation is not the better choice I guess. Contemporary rituals reflect the state of a (prevailing) culture; so take it as an indicator of where we/you are heading to, if it's a clear tendency. I find the ''old fashioned'' procedure a little too stiff, mechanic, staged. But to display some (extended) effort to meet someone who is special to me (or will be) is a question of taste, character and respect to me. If some want to prove the opposite on their behalf - well: they do.
Looking good for a man usually means a suit, which is plain boring even if there are a variety of styles, they still are basically the same and don't really make a man look better, just cramped. Plus that it doesn't matter, I wore countless suits and ties for years and didn't get any interest or remarks from anybody but men. As for women, they have a large variety of easy accessible styles to choose from, also quite colorful and good looking, and most importantly, that put a accent on their body, something women themselves do in order to pass better for a date when even they don't care that much about it.
I have also noticed to, though I do like to dress up and stuff. Took my X out a a few months ago to a fancy place she wanted to try and I was dress up. Bought new pants shoes etc and she decided she just wanted to wear everyday wear. The place didn't have a dress code but everyone was dressed up a bit. I may not have a great job rn or a fancy car but I was raised old a fashioned. I do think the guys out there are seeing that ladies don't care anymore. So why invest, if she's just gonna dump you. Lol, that being said I love. My cargo shorts...
And for those types of ladies the man should go all out to impress his lady. To show her that he does think she's important enough for him to up his dress game.
I asked my mother about something kinda similar but more political, which was something like "how did masculinity fall this low?" She believes one issue is the children of the 60s counter culture that influenced men in a few ways. I imaging these days wearing a suit to somewhere other than a wedding might be viewed as something only worn by "old fogey white men" or something.
I would definitely love to have a more dapper style like Frank Sinatra, I just have to wait for fall or so because it is too hot for my pair of Oxfords right now.
What are you talking about? Many men do take care of themselves and many women don't. This seems like typical whining about the new generation to me. Maybe he works long hours and didn't have time for a haircut? Maybe he likes having a beard? Maybe she likes that look?
Get over yourself and your "I'm better cause I'm old fashioned" bs.
I thought about blaming it on women ruining the need for men to impress them by being easy to get in bed, or how many simply aren't worth the effort because they're unfaithful, or how feminism killed the core traits of femininity and demanded men be less masculine, but I don't this excuses not looking good on your date as men should still be looking to impress good women.
You simply don't know their circumstances, there could be an explanation for why he looked that way and if there isn't then she should probably leave him and find someone who does put in effort. As for why men don't wear suits to dates, because they often get looked at as over dressed, instead just a button up shirt and slacks would be better on a casual date, but if they've been dating a long time and his work gets in the way a lot then I can see why she wouldn't mind as much.
So you see one guy and the generation is fucked over LMAO maybe if your generation didn't destroyed most of the planet and rien the economy we would have money to get nice clothes that guy probably finished he's full time job before going out and didn't have enough time to go out and who says they where on a date they could have been in a relationship or even just friends meeting up and I've seen 50yr olds try and date again they don't dress in full suit and tie if anything they just wear there golf cloths out and pretend they don't just sit around killing time tell they die it's been 30yr seince you where our age get off the planet it's our turn stop judging us based on the bull shit ruels you set for ur self's in the past
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Not all men are like this. For 90% of our dates/times we went out, my ex would put in a good amount of effort (i. e., a buttoned up shirt (not a polo), nice pants, boats shoes, a watch and cologne.
Also, my current boyfriend 90% of the time puts in effort too. He likes to look good when we go out, and he always does too!
But, sometimes people like to be casual (especially here in America where it’s very common to dress casually!). I don’t ALWAYS put in extreme effort. Sometimes I want to wear something a little less dressed up too.
How did you find guys like those? Are they from Europe?
No. My ex was Dominican, and lived mainly in South, and Central America.
My current boyfriend is from America.
Not sure what generation you're referring to but I'll give my own personal take:) I graduated with about 20 guys I'd call friends. Strong guys, smart and ambitious, loads of potential. Every last one divorced, broke, depressed, lonely, dragging their pathetic asses through the rest of their pathetic lives except for the three who suicided. I'm not a mind reader but I assume they do not GAF. I also assume their sons are picking up on this vibe because it's not hard to miss. Whatcha dooin Saturday ;)
A lot of guys just don't know how to dress. I would go out with my boyfriend and his definition of nice was just really different. me=dark slacks, khakis and a nice shirt, button up, no flannel or logos. Him, dark jeans, a good pair of sneakers, and a flannel. But he put in effort :) so, I was happy. I think you can definitely be too picky, and as long as someone is trying, that's better than nothing :)
No comment on cargo shorts, flip flops guy though
What does it even mean to be a man anymore? You look at the landscape of modern society and maleness is almost-universally frowned upon, as more and more institutions take on an intersectional feminist approach to gender relations.
"Men are rapists", "men are pigs", "men are predators", "men are evil", "#killallmen", "male privilege", and on and on. What message does this send to men? Men have absolutely no good role models to follow and they are the scapegoats for all the world's ills, so when women ask "where have all the good men gone?", I answer "where they are needed."
Society has spoken, "we don't need you."
Women: don't objectify us.
Also women: compliment us on our looks.
What are guys supposed to say?
The look you described, I think, is an actual fashion style. There is nothing wrong with dressing how you want and/or being comfortable. I'm sure he wouldn't have cared if she dressed similarly.
Why should men be gentlemen and old school? It isn't like the modern women is ladylike and old school. It isn't really fair in dating to ask for something your not.
If you prefer to look like a sloven- go ahead.
Dont generalize! I clean up for dates, but I'm an Elder Millennial (1980's). Which generation are you really asking? Gen Z (1996-2010) have horrible dating expectations. If it's not on their phone it's not worth their time. Millennials (Gen Y) is split between the decades. Millenials born in the 80s care a lot more than Millennials born in the 90's. To give you a refresher on Millennials were born between 1980-1995. Gen X (1965-1979) seems to be Similar to millennials in that sense as well. Our parents generation and older (Baby Boomers) didn't grow up with technology so they were more old fashion. We still have it in the later generations it's just rare.
Chivalry is not dead especially in Nantucket.
Why should a guy dress up? In the age of misandrist and toxic feminism why should i look nice for a woman? While yes i do dress up its not for the sake of the woman. Why should i wear a 1600 dollar suit to dinner for her sake? Do you have any idea how much dry cleaning is? Guys only dress up for special occasions. How many guys can afford such an expense? Ill let you in on a secret my italian cashmere suit was made by me on my sewing machine. If i were to buy just the jacket it be 4,000 usd. Dressing nice is very expensive prohibitively so. If she wants to dress up great good for her but unless its a special date the suit stays hung up in the closet. There is also a lack of men passing on the art of mens dressing. So that dont help.
The incentive and demand fell. I watched a video of a popular Youtube star going around to random women in the street showing pictures of him dressed in formal and casual wear and asked women to rate which one they preferred. Overwhelmingly, women chose the causal wear. Why? because men who dressed more casually gave off the vibe they were more comfortable with themselves and were less intimidating to women as the women wouldn't feel pressured to dress up to match them.
Not all men are gentlemen. When was it the last time you saw a 20+ year old guy wears a suit and shiny shoes?
I got my first suit when i was 12 and i used to shine my own shoes and made them look like a million bucks.
Now i have 4 suits and every single time am out with the wife or a close friend to a restaurant i wear a suit and shiny shoes.
You might consider that this guy has been on multiple dates with women who didn't try as hard as the one you saw him with. Women these days are of the mind that it's the man's responsibility to impress the woman, not the other way around, and definitely not mutually. I've been on lots of dates where I clearly put more effort into my appearance than my date did.
I'm not saying this is absolutely the case. We can't know for sure. But if you're under the impression that the majority of young men are slobs for no good reason and the majority of young women are going to great lengths to impress them, you're tragically mistaken.
Rather then me write a paragraph I will ask you to do something then you will understand.
That guy is just a one off who’s got no clue about romance.
But if you want to know what has happened to us well here’s what I want you to do use any popular dating site or app or multiple up to you. Make a fake male profile of yourself with a random guys picture and try to get a date with any girl.
After a few weeks you’ll understand why that guy sitting there with no effort was doing what he was doing. The short answer is a mirror gives you your answer look deep.
I personally do put effort in my appearance, fix my hair, shave, do hygiene stuff etc.. I still dress usual though, (well, I pick the stuff i think I look best in, but it's still usual clothing) because appearing in a suit etc. just makes the girl think I am a bussiness man and don't have time for her... If for example on the first date we decide to go to a more official place the second time, I would gladly dress up.
TL;DR: I think most girls think you are weird if you go to a date overdressed, because dressing official etc. has become unpopular.
"Don't you enjoy looking good any more?
Looking good is a matter of opinion. I do casual. Always. Why should I wear crap that I don't like just because someone else thinks that's what you are "supposed" to wear?
"I'm glad I'm older because the likelihood is that the men in my life will be old school"
Contrary to what my profile says, I'm older than you (62). I came of age when the style was no style. It was busted up jeans, some kind of shirt, bare feet, and long hair. I've dressed pretty much the same my entire life. I know a heck of a lot of other people who have also.
If someone wants to play dress up, they are most definitely not the person for me.
I dress smart-casual. Usually jeans (jean shorts if its hot) and a t-shirt.
Truth is that I turn up as the person I am. I hate wearing suits. I find them impractical and restricting. Me turning up dressed smartly and going to a super fancy restaurant wouldn't be a representation of who I am.
I don't see why either side should sacrifice comfort for the sake of appearing smarter than they'd usually dress.
If my girlfriend ans I go out, we sometimes dress smart and sometimes we don't. I don't think everyone needs to dress smart all the time.
Obviously, times have changed. If we like it or not. Stagnation is not the better choice I guess. Contemporary rituals reflect the state of a (prevailing) culture; so take it as an indicator of where we/you are heading to, if it's a clear tendency. I find the ''old fashioned'' procedure a little too stiff, mechanic, staged. But to display some (extended) effort to meet someone who is special to me (or will be) is a question of taste, character and respect to me. If some want to prove the opposite on their behalf - well: they do.
Looking good for a man usually means a suit, which is plain boring even if there are a variety of styles, they still are basically the same and don't really make a man look better, just cramped. Plus that it doesn't matter, I wore countless suits and ties for years and didn't get any interest or remarks from anybody but men. As for women, they have a large variety of easy accessible styles to choose from, also quite colorful and good looking, and most importantly, that put a accent on their body, something women themselves do in order to pass better for a date when even they don't care that much about it.
I have also noticed to, though I do like to dress up and stuff. Took my X out a a few months ago to a fancy place she wanted to try and I was dress up. Bought new pants shoes etc and she decided she just wanted to wear everyday wear. The place didn't have a dress code but everyone was dressed up a bit. I may not have a great job rn or a fancy car but I was raised old a fashioned. I do think the guys out there are seeing that ladies don't care anymore. So why invest, if she's just gonna dump you. Lol, that being said I love. My cargo shorts...
They do care dear- that's why most of them spend a lot of time on their appearance.
And for those types of ladies the man should go all out to impress his lady. To show her that he does think she's important enough for him to up his dress game.
I asked my mother about something kinda similar but more political, which was something like "how did masculinity fall this low?" She believes one issue is the children of the 60s counter culture that influenced men in a few ways. I imaging these days wearing a suit to somewhere other than a wedding might be viewed as something only worn by "old fogey white men" or something.
I would definitely love to have a more dapper style like Frank Sinatra, I just have to wait for fall or so because it is too hot for my pair of Oxfords right now.
What are you talking about? Many men do take care of themselves and many women don't. This seems like typical whining about the new generation to me. Maybe he works long hours and didn't have time for a haircut? Maybe he likes having a beard? Maybe she likes that look?
Get over yourself and your "I'm better cause I'm old fashioned" bs.
I thought about blaming it on women ruining the need for men to impress them by being easy to get in bed, or how many simply aren't worth the effort because they're unfaithful, or how feminism killed the core traits of femininity and demanded men be less masculine, but I don't this excuses not looking good on your date as men should still be looking to impress good women.
You simply don't know their circumstances, there could be an explanation for why he looked that way and if there isn't then she should probably leave him and find someone who does put in effort. As for why men don't wear suits to dates, because they often get looked at as over dressed, instead just a button up shirt and slacks would be better on a casual date, but if they've been dating a long time and his work gets in the way a lot then I can see why she wouldn't mind as much.
So you see one guy and the generation is fucked over LMAO maybe if your generation didn't destroyed most of the planet and rien the economy we would have money to get nice clothes that guy probably finished he's full time job before going out and didn't have enough time to go out and who says they where on a date they could have been in a relationship or even just friends meeting up and I've seen 50yr olds try and date again they don't dress in full suit and tie if anything they just wear there golf cloths out and pretend they don't just sit around killing time tell they die it's been 30yr seince you where our age get off the planet it's our turn stop judging us based on the bull shit ruels you set for ur self's in the past