This way of thinking is basically Dehumanizing them and it's not good!
What do you think of the "Men don't cry" culture? Is it causing more harm, than good in men?
This way of thinking is basically Dehumanizing them and it's not good!
In the whole time I've been on this or indeed any other site like it, I've never given so much thought to a question as this before Mrs P.
I make no secret of the fact I was bullied as a kid at school, but I don't know I have ever divulged quite how bad things were. I was mentally tortured as well as kicked and punched (I use to use Rugby as the reason of all the bruising to my parents)
I would sit or stand and just take everything they dished out just sobbing.
My Mum use to say when I got home that she didn't want me playing Rugby any more, and my dad use to say "nonsense, it makes a man of him"
I eventually told my Dad what was going on and he said, If it happens again I don't want you to cry, I want you to hit them back only harder and get even.
He took me to Karate Classes and I loved it there. I felt so safe, invincible even, because everything was so controlled.
I was still taking a beating at school for the next 3 years but I never let them see me cry again.
I was finally pushed over the edge and I retaliated. I won't go into details but I got suspended for a couple of weeks after my Dad went up there and explained how long it had been going on for (I was originally expelled)
I now take regular classes (Krav Maga) and I don't cry. I think it is a weakness that you should NEVER show to others, because they will use it against you.
This does oppose your view on why men shouldn't cry but I hope I have done a good job of explaining why it is part of men's culture not to.
I'm am sorry you had to go threw that. You had every right to take out cry let every out. It's not healthy to not cry.
@Alwayreckles93 @mrsposh Thank you, both of you.
@mrsposh And thank you also for choosing my answer as best.
@nice-girl I agree completely. And that is why I advise people to be VERY sure their relationship is sound before they have children, and not to have a child because they think it might bring them closer together.
@TommyMountainFigure You are very welcome đĽ°
Letting guys cry in front of you do them more harm How Men and Boys Should Be Treated
Didn't you read my MyTake? It's all explained in there
Opinion
84Opinion
I use to believe in it when I was a younger I was kind of a crybaby back then I was weak and showed weakness. But all that changed when I started getting harassed and bullied physically and verbally badly. After that I had an epiphany of sorts. I realized that crying while it may make you feel better for a few minutes is ultimately useless. It does nothing to solve the issue.
And I quite frankly started seeing the world for cruel and nasty place that it is and that it'll beat you to knee's and keep you there permanently if you let it. And the people were just as bad.
So I hardened myself I became calm, collected, stoic, dominate, physically strong, took up martial arts, fighting, became confident, stopped giving a shit and just figuratively cut out crying like one cuts out a tumor and I surrounded myself with those kinds of people.
And every time I decided to open up, be vulnerable and it backfired I'd make revert back to the hardened version which now a days is just me now, the old me is long dead and gone. These days if I'm ever vulnerable with anyone it's only with the people I'm closest with who have earned my trust over the course of years.
An example of one of the many reasons why I am this way I had a girlfriend and she'd ask me to be vulnerable and that it's ok for to cry and all that. Well one day I was going through a really tough time, trouble at home, overwhelmed and was kind of having a mental breakdown. So I tried being vulnerable and opening up about what was going on.
Well as soon as I did that she basically told me to man up and just deal with it and if I couldn't she was gonna leave me.
And don't get the wrong idea I'm not some emotionless robot who doesn't feel anything to those who know me personally and closely I'm a very friendly, goofy and generally happy guy among other things.
And I will cry in private but only if I'm facing something huge and devastating and I feel it's necessary. Like when my best friend who I was trying to help through depression shot himself and I ended up being the one who discovered him ultimately that along some rumors going around about him not even a few days after he died kind of sent me over the edge.
And if I do ever decide to cry in the presences of a partner again it'll only be with someone who's earned my trust and is someone I trust explicitly and who I feel comfortable with.
Because I won't allow myself to be at my weakest and most vulnerable and a woman use that to prey on and attack/threaten me again.
Not at all. The "men don't cry" culture - as you call it - is one of the last remaining vestiges of self-control in a society that increasingly fosters the idea that one's feelings are the most important thing. Thus does any semblance of self-control evaporate.
Don't get me wrong. I have cried. I cried when I held my newborn son in my arms. I have cried when I broke up with a woman I was in love with broke up with me. There have been moments, good and bad.
The point is that they were personal and private moments. I did not lack for passion, but it was not my prerogative to spread the turmoil I was feeling, one way or the other, to others who have their own issues to deal with.
The point is to - as the kids say - "suck it up." Face life, and employ the mind and not the heart. The heart is irrational and the passions are often destructive to those around us. By controlling the heart and employing the mind, we protect those around us and keep private that which ought to be private.
We are drowning in an age where people just cannot imagine that their feelings don't matter. That the response to their unhappiness is to inflict their misery on other. The result is the social chaos you see around you.
Time for the world to grow up. Start from the premise that the feelings of others matter more than one's own. The "men don't cry" culture is the last - and frankly dying vestige of that self-control. Perish the thought we lose that, too.
No, it's natural, men can't cry, it will be used against us. Especially by the same people who say it's ok to cry. It's healthier, and has less long term consequences to honestly get drunk and break the things/people that are causing issues.
I'd have less problems in my life going to court for aggravated assault, burglary, whatever, I can drag that trial for years and get the charges dropped every time, then go in front of a judge instead of making the deal I was hinting at and get not guilty. Cry in front of your wife for any reason other than someone close to you being dead, and still I would choose another guy to cry with rather than a woman. That shit is never going away, and their perspective of you is changed.
"Men can cry" is the culture that is new and unnatural, it's an idea that came out about the same time as toxic masculinity, strong men aren't afraid to cry and go to therapy. They're moves to emasculate and destroy your life. Real men don't put up with shit to let it get to that point is my opinion.
There is no "men don't cry" culture. There is a culture that generally does not consider male problems.
Boys do not cry publicly because there is no use for a male to cry publicly.
If a male is sick, it's his problems. If a male is harassed it's his problems. If a male has mental problems it is his problems. If a male has any kind of problem, that problem belongs to him alone. Crying publicly is of no use to him. Nobody will ever help him. If a male has a problem and asks for help, all doors are closed.
If a male shows he is in need, he is systematically ignored by women as a potential partner.
Many males face risk and danger every day because if they die or get injured, nobody cares.
There is no toxic masculinity. But there is a huge empathic gap towards males who are denied any empathy since they are children, only by everyone except adult family members.
First you need to become empathetic to male problems then you can think about asking yourself questions about why males do not express their emotions. Being empathetic means that they don't use their weaknesses against them, as many manipulators do. Unfortunately, women use these manipulative strategies a lot against those who show their emotions.
Agree, true men take ownership of their problems.
I really do not think it is a generalized situation... at least not here where I grew up and how I grew up
even on TV, the media... men cry all the time and it is alright, I saw it in sports all the time, one side will win and will cry out of joy, the other side will lose and will cry their frustration out, and it is alright... it is normal and it is okay
and yes, I have also seen some people who are like this "men don't cry" but they are very very few, and they are the odd ones out
again this is just my experience, I am sure it would have been different for many others
glad to share (=
It's extremely harmful and is the definition of "toxic masculinity".
It's especially harmful to younger men.
The men in my life who are the most successful and most happy all understand the value of being able to genuinely express their emotions.
The ones who don't and who believe in the whole "men don't cry" toxicity are honestly very unhappy. And it's entirely self-imposed.
Emotions are human. And men are human.
Learning to handle one's emotions in a healthy, human way is vital to being a well-adjusted and mature adult.
Sometimes that means leaving behind beliefs and communities that espouse toxic mindsets like "men don't have emotions except anger and horny" in order to heal and deprogram from these unhealthy beliefs.
Nobody says that men can't express feelings, there are many ways to do it, the fact that women express feelings by crying doesn't meen men should. Thats just a women trying to feminize men. When ever I see a woman using the Toxic masculinity slogan, I immediately minimize her input. Men are reached to act, because crying does nothing to solve any problem, once the man acts, he can get motivated and his emotions change. When you are in a deep hole, literally, crying for an hour just leaves you in the same place, but if he uses that hour to try to get out of the hole, he feels much better. If that is toxic, well I hope everyone becomes toxic.
Toxic masculinity is simply Men trying to live up to to social rules women have for us.
If wearing a pink tutu got men positive female attention it would be dress code for the military.
Men don't make social rules other than don't speak to each other in the restroom. Men don't cry because women find it repulsive. It's that simple.
Since the industrial revolution we have had a long open discussion and movement to allow women the freedom from the ancient social rules that constrained them. We can't even discuss the rigid and strict social rules men are forced to follow. We haven't even started on that road. Men are still in the exact same box we have been in for millennia.
Men have three choices in life, military, work or prison.
See, people? The above is exactly what I mean by "they're trapped in a self-imposed prison".
Boys. You can choose not to listen to the social rules "women have for you".
Just ignore them. Do you. Be emotional in whatever way you feel is best for you.
But crying for an hour before you decide "ok, time to get shit done" is not a gendered thing. Men do this frequently. Even in the military. Heck, especially in the military.
Emotional resilience and handling emotion is literally one of the things they teach.
"Boys. You can choose not to listen to the social rules "women have for you".
Yes, you can be an incel.. that's what happens to men who don't follow the rules.. nothing, I repeat, nothing is as repulsive to women as a man who cries, it's a one way ticket to the friend zone.
No, @Esperanto. Emotional maturity is a skill military officers have needed and studied for many years, through many wars.
It isn't because of women. It's because leading people to and through deadly situations requires control over one's emotions.
Ignoring, avoiding, or shutting it down isn't handling it. Knowing how to navigate the emotions of yourself and your team would only make a unit safer.
If every soldier was as self-centred as you, there wouldn't be amazing feats of command from the battle field.
I see this as a mischaracterization from soft-minded people. You see men still idolize Maximus from Gladiator, for example:
... and yet he cried like a baby when he dashed home to his dead wife and child:
I've yet to meet a single man fault him for crying here because he didn't cry to gain attention, or make a big deal out of something small. He cried because he is human and he experienced something devastating.
Now if some man came into the scene and teased Maximus for crying, then I think that man deserves to get his ass kicked. But I've yet to meet that man.
From my blunt standpoint though, I'm gender-neutral. I think neither men nor women should cry very much. I don't like women who cry all the time any more than men who cry all the time.
Same with anger though if people think I worship "masculine" over "feminine". In the same way that I disapprove of men or women crying all the time, I also disapprove of men or women getting angry all the time. I disapprove of negative people in general.
I think it depends. On quick many people will say it´s harmful and dehumanizing and they´re probably right speaking for many situations but there are other situations where a man keeping his shit together is more appreciated and wanted.
Like take a situation where a woman freaks out about spiders and bugs in her bed, how do you think does she want her man to react on these insects when he sees them first?
Do you think she wants to see him panic or grimace because he hates bugs and spiders the same way`?
No she probably him to kill or throw them out.
So to speak it I´d say every guy must find a way to come to terms with his feelings and emotions but that doesn´t mean that he has to cry in front of a woman. It also doesn´t mean that we all down the other extreme by making guys share their emotions publically.
Because that would be neither helpful.
I always tell men, if you feel strong emotions, only share with your close friends, those who share your situation or someone older you can trust. Never in front of women, unless she's your mother, sister, etc. Men gain little by getting emotional. Women may superficially express concern and support but in the long term they lose respect and sexual attraction. Moreover, women do not understand most of the problems men face so it's of no advisory use.
What men need is an outlet
Some one needs to be the machine and that role has fallen to men it's fine honestly or at least it would be if men had an outlet
Women and trans men are taking up these outlets just for fun
Women don't need to hide emotions and in fact are encouraged to let them out
Trans men are babbied the LGBTQ community and get a safe space to boot
A straight non trans man they had use to have clubs and the YMCA but not anymore
Saying men shouldn't be held to standard is dangerous as this standard is what makes fire fighters, cops, soldiers, medics and oil workers
However not giving them an outlet is also dangerous
Personally, I don't understand the idea behind glorifying the lack of ability to regulate one's emotions, but to each their own.
I will keep on keeping my emotions in check, not because "I'm a man" but because I think crying is both emotionally immature as well as objectively unproductive.
Sure, and anger is also an emotion and a part of being human and yet punching people and breaking things is frowned upon and those who fall victim to such emotions are criticized for not being able to control them.
So why is that some emotions we are expected to control and inhibit, but the failure to do same with others is somehow perceived as "a strength"?
Adults don't cry nor scream, that's what children do.
It's funny guys telling each other when it good fo cry when not to
I look at it like this if a man breaks down and crys
It because something big has just happen in his life that makes him think, makes him feel something deep I'm very confident in my everyday life if somebody wants to judge me that's up to them I could really care less if it's not about them it's about me and what I feel and if it affects me enough to make me cry and it's pretty powerful
Thank you for asking one of the best things about me is I've been blessed to be me I'm rough around the edges my hands are big and calloused I can build anything I can do anything most people would say a man's man I don't need to be loud or I don't need to bring attention to myself I see both sides of every story and if I feel something it makes it to your fall from my face it's because whatever it was our whatever that person was meant something to me and I'm not afraid to be seen showing my emotion because of what I feel towards that person or towards that pet or whatever the reason may be I am me and I like me I've nothing to hide even though I would rather be seen and not heard I like to be invisible but it is what it is and I'm not afraid to be that person we all get to choose who we want to be in life and the person that I have chose to be is just me
Men cryâŚ
And if I am a woman man can cry with, Iâll just feel honored to be the one he trusts and will care for him deeply.
Iâve made men cry.
Which I feel deeply sorry for as these men were the most special to me. And I cared for their feelings a lot.
Being able to show his deep feelings makes me think heâs strong.
But I also remember a story my grandpa told me, oh he was that blond blue eyed guy every girl had a crush on, he broke heart of many women and once met a girl, who refused sleeping with him, he made up a story and even cried to make her trust him more, they finally slept together. My grandpa always told me not to trust menâs tears.
But I guess thatâs just about tears of womanizers.
Mmm yea baby I like the man thatâs crying like a pussy - said no woman everđ
Lots of men face danger and terror on a regular basis. Military, miners, sailors, construction workers, electrical linemen, and many others. We have to be tough or we couldn't function and the world will fall apart. This has always been men's reality, and even in 2022, your very survival depends on tough men doing difficult and dangerous work and not letting their own terror hold them back.
This doesn't mean that we don't have feelings, we just prefer not to express them publicly. There are times when showing those feelings can literally mean our own death.
What would help is some understanding if we are emotional in private with our women. I don't mean crying because we're out of ketchup or beer, but if a pet dies or a parent is diagnosed with cancer or something, there are women who literally hold that against men, and in my opinion, that is disgusting. If a man is that emotional in private a few times a year, that should be respected.
Because a whiny man is a puss cake. Its unappealing. Nobody cares. When a woman cries for harrassment at work, management is on top of that like stink on shit. When i had multiple women harrassing me at work (yes, it can happen), i tried informing managment of the problem. Guess what? Nobody cared... Why? Because a man owns his problems and takes care of them. Society and natural selection doesn't permit a man to cry about his problems. Its not to say we dont cry- we do, and we do have feelings. But to cry, whine or openly express emotion as you put it, shows a loss of control, which nobody has respect for, especially a man
Well it is damaging, and an agenda pushed by toxic masculinity that any emotion other than anger/rage is weakness. It essentially created a bunch of emotionally suppressed and stunted men unable to process or deal with their emotions in a healthy and productive way. Thankfully mental health professionally are addressing this, and giving men a safe space to heal from generational trauma, the tools they need work though and process their emotions, and changing the lies the society has been spewing about was real masculinity is.
The last thing any woman needs is another pussy
@Creampiekarl420 Feel free to elaborate on that
Well would you want a man who complains like a woman? Itâs rhetorical of course you wouldnât no woman wants a whiny man and my mom taught me that
@Creampiekarl420 there is a difference between crying over nothing and asking for support when you endured hell on this earth.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 it doesnât matter a grown man shouldnât cry
@Creampiekarl420 that mentality is the cause for many suicides.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 suicide is caused by weakness
@Creampiekarl420 there is a difference between communication and whining, the two are no synonymous
@Creampiekarl420 actually the leading causes of suicide are
Depression, other mental disorders, or substance use disorder.
Chronic pain.
Family history of a mental disorder or substance use.
Family history of suicide.
Exposure to family violence, including physical or sexual abuse.
@Subarugirl only weak men with no control are subjected to
@Creampiekarl420 and it takes a strong man who has humility to recognize that he needs help⌠it would appear you are neither of those things. Every medical professional would disagree with you on that frontâŚ. Counseling and therapy has been proven to be beneficial to mental health
@Subarugirl yes life is hard you donât have to cry about though thatâs what bitches do an even stronger man rolls with the punches and keeps it moving stop encouraging men to not be men
@grega239 Not necessarily, there is no denying that the family court and justice system is totally fucked, but a spouse losing all of their possessions in a divorces is extremely rare. From a legal aspect you generally get to keep what you came into the relationship with and assets gained during the divorce are split. I think a lot of men here about these horror stories which are actually by far a minority and forget that the majorities of divorces are an negotiation between the couples separating.
@grega239 Assets are divided in accordance with state law, so it is important to know whether you live in an equitable distribution or community property. In Equitable Distribution states, all marital earnings and assets will be divided between the parties in a fair and reasonable manner given each parties circumstances. A court would consider a range of factors when dividing property, which includes, but is not limited to the length of your marriage, amount of income, liabilities, health, whether you have children, etc. In a Community Property state, there is an absolute 50/50 of all property acquired during a marriage regardless of how the asset is titled. Property acquired prior to the marriage remains separate.
Within these two categories of states, property may be classified as either separate property or marital property. Marital property is property specifically accumulated by the couple during the marriage. Separate property is property that is not part of the marriage, but belongs exclusively to either the husband or the wife. Separate property is not subject to division in a divorce, it is retained by the spouse that owned it during the marriage.
@Creampiekarl420 Who said anything about crying? I am talking about processing and dealing with emotions in a healthy way so that you don't end up an emotionally stunted adult with the emotion depth of a puddle. There is a mental health crisis in this country and you are encouraging men to continue with damaging behavior that increase their risk for suicide... You can push this false narrative of what strength and masculinity looks like but there is nothing stronger than putting in the effort to take care of your mental health. How ever you are still young, and it's taken men a lot wiser than you a lot longer to figure that out.
@Creampiekarl420 you are talking out of ignorance. Survival instinct is literally the strongest drive we have. Goes to the point parents drop their children to survive if necessary. There are documented cases of this.
And you sit there and actually think going against that instinct is weak?
No one can actually do it unless they mentally collapsed. Everyone has a limit.
Men kill themselves much more than women do you think we are weaker?
If we ask for help and let out grief out instead of bottling it up we would live longer.
@Subarugirl bingo!
First off im wise because I listen more than I speak Iâm so ahead of my time even when Iâm talking about the future Iâm reminiscing and crying pity party whatever you want to call it thatâs bitch shit like I said a real man is pressed from every angle and still keeps it moving through the darkest of times
@Creampiekarl420 no one is saying that people shouldn't have emotional strength. Endure and push through hard times. Both men and women should do that.
But there is a limit to how much you can take. When that time comes letting it out and asking for help is the literally the wisest thing you can do. We are social animals for a reason. We didn't come. this far without each other support.
@Creampiekarl420 Real men understand that mental health is just as important as physical health and since you are part of a demographic that is 3 times more likely to commit suicide I am surprised that you aren't more aware of the contributing factors or that preventative care is better than trying treat an illness that could have been prevented.
Suppression happens when emotions start building up. Control is constant.
A man who isn't able to do that has been taught incorrectly.
And to whom should men express their emotions to? Other men? Thats not how it works.
Women? Thats even worse. Because for all that talk about women being understanding and caring, why do so many use mens emotions against them?
If you want men to have a healthy mind, encourage them to do physical activity so they can get it out of their system.
@grega239 exercise is not enough to make forget actual problems.
We can't talk with other men because we are shit with each other. We 100% should support other men more.
Women actually do want to support us, but out of an irrational fear our fathers and society put on us we believe that they will hate us for it. Pure bullshit.
Suicide is literally the second main cause of male young adults deaths. Do you think they were all poorly taught? Or that they were all weak?
Talk about properly taught all you want. We all have a limit.
@grega239 And a lot of men have not been taught how to deal with and process their emotions in a healthy way, so they end up repressing them. Working out isn't a substitute for mental health care, neither is fight club, or drinking. All that does is ignore the actual issue by redirecting your focus onto something else. Telling someone struggling with mental health to just go do something physical instead of addressing the root of the issues is like telling someone with type one diabetes to just eat healthier... It will probably help but it doesn't address or fix the root of the issue.
@grega239 When it comes to counseling and therapy it isn't an instantaneous fix... it takes time and it takes work, you get out of it what you put into it. Sometime it takes a while to find a counselor that is a good fit, you can't really make a judgment about something you spent 15 minuets reluctantly tolerating.
You are right that isn't therapy, therapy is an ongoing process. What you experienced sounds more like an interview before a prescription, not therapy.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 women want to support us?
I was sent to a mental hospital for 5 months. The women i thought were my friends were no where to be found.
And how many of those suicides are because a woman broke their heart?
I mean do you honestly expect someone to be emotional with a woman after a heartbreak?
Yes i think they were weak. And as heartless as that sounds, i believe that.
Life is difficult. But you can't just give up.
And yes I know people who committed suicide.
Suicide is carried out during an EMOTIONAL LOW POINT. Its irrational.
Thats not suppression or control.
Get your shit together and think for a second.
We all do have our limits.
And if i feel suicidal because of my past trauma, i think of my mom.
Why would i ruin her life like that?
She cares deeply for me. Committing suicide would be cruel to her.
@grega239 Yes, women want to support us.
I am sorry your girl friends were not really your friends. That really sucks. I know a thing or two about being alone too.
Yes suicide can come after a broken heart. It would be avoided if they actually had a healthy way to deal with it.
So they get afraid of opening up after a heartbreak? That is what I call weak. Can't deal with what one ex did so act carefully around a new and totally different person? Please.
I also know two. One tried one succeed. The first one was an ex girlfriend who tried to suicide after I broke up with her.
Emotions are not rational. And we all have them. We all have them and we all act accordingly to them. Even the biggest machos on this life let their emotions dictate what they do. That's being human. No way around this.
You should care about yourself too. I did went to therapy for a while to try to get over my demons.
Regardless of what you do I hope you find a better way to deal with yours.
Weakness is all it is
@Creampiekarl420 humans have feelings. Unless you are a psychopath you do. And regardless if you are the toughest person alive they do affect your decisions. That is not weakness. That is being a normal human.
@Creampiekarl420 no according to the science⌠are you a scientist, or just claiming to know more then the field in which they specialize
@Subarugirl I don't know what you know about science but anyone who has ever ask how or why about anything is a scientist and by the way yes I am a scientist I received a full ride scholarship to Syracuse and SDSU for their bio molecular engineering program I didnât go because I didnât want what I love to become a chore @This_Is_My_Opinion8 Iâm not saying we donât have emotions did you know in Japan it is seen as childish or immature to cry at funerals a grown man should have better control over his emotions itâs okay to not be okay but you donât have to be a little bitch about it
@Creampiekarl420 you're a 22 year old guy with the username creampiekarl420... at best you are a student with a lot of learning left to do, supposedly in an undergrad state college for bio engineeringâŚ. you're what a sophomore, maybe a junior and you are calming to know more about human behavior and psychology than people who have dedicated their lives to research of the human psyche... too bad they aren't also teaching you a little humility in San Diego either...
@Creampiekarl420 You're not a scientist... you're a student...
@Subarugirl im not a student I didnât go to college no one had to tell me to learn about that stuff I have several Library cards and read a lot because I enjoy learning about science
@Subarugirl if you think a degree is all it takes to qualify someone as a scientist then you have a lot to learn about science anyone can be a scientist Iâve been reading physics geometry chemistry and biology books since I was 8 Iâve done my research because I enjoy it I donât need a piece of paper to tell me Iâm a scientist
Why would you not be careful to who you open up to? Doesn't it make sense to be reserved until you're sure?
@Subarugirl yea, fortunately i have hobbies to distract myself with and lessen the mental health stuff
@Creampiekarl420 yes because Japan is such a great example to us all.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 yes they arenât as fat their children are smarter and more respectful they have more marriage minded less promiscuous hotter women their single mother rate is very low their entertainment and food is better
@Creampiekarl420 all of that caused by a lack of individual freedom and a mindset that beings 100 years in the past. Did you know they only recently allowed women to take part in important meetings, as long as they stay quiet? This is nothing to aspire to.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 and what do our women do with this alleged freedom? Blame their issues on men they have equality but thatâs not enough they want special treatment if AmĂŠrica never bombed Japan and sent troops there to fight we would have lost and our men of the 50s and 60s were cut from a much tougher cloth and still wouldâve lost
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 why is it important for women to have input? Name me 5 female inventors donât google
Women take more from society than they give
@Creampiekarl420
Marie Curie: Theory of Radioactivity
Grace Hopper: The Computer
Stephanie Kwolek: Kevlar
Rosalind Franklin: DNA Double Helix
Shirley Jackson: The source of all things telecommunication
@Subarugirl nice try but
Mari Curie was a physicist not an inventor
Grace hopper was a computer programmer she did not invent it
Miss Franklin again chemist not an inventor
Dr. Shirley also a physicist not an inventor
Stephanie kowlek well you got one
Iâll help you out a bit
Madam CJ walker - hot comb
Margaret Sanger - Planned parenthood
Sarah lindenburg- bonnets
Just name one more hun and by the way the only ones I had to google were miss hopper (because I knew that was wrong) and miss kowlek if you googled too tell the truth and shame the devil lol
@Creampiekarl420
Grace invented one of the first linkers
Dr, Jackson... Invented the Call Waiting and Caller ID feature, the portable fax machine, and the touch-tone telephones all came to fruition due to the important research of an African-American woman, Dr. Shirley Jackson. She invented the above while working at AT&T Bell Labs where she conducted research in theoretical physics, solid-state and quantum physics, and optical physics.
Marie Curie.. She invented mobile X-ray machines
Rosalind didn't technically invent anything but it was her discovery and research which set the ground work for treating genetic diseases and offering life saving procedures and it was her research that helped establish molecular genetics
But we can talk about Tabitha Babbitt who invented the circular saw..
@Subarugirl im not saying these women didnât make great strides and contributions to their fields of expertise but improving something that already was invented is not inventing and there is only a handful of them men invented pretty much everything youâre right but Iâm right too
@Creampiekarl420 don't know by name, but no googling ao can say...
The one that invented wifi. Married Currie. The one that made the code that help us get the first picture of a black hole. The first concept of a university was made by a woman. Four. But good ones aren't they?
Yes it is important for half of the population to have a say on how things are run.
Asking why women didn't do more in history is like asking why Jew business didn't thrive in Nazi Germany. Wasn't made for them to succeed. This set humanity back dozens of years.
@Creampiekarl420 but I just gave an example of Japan lack of human rights. This conversation is not about that. Is about personal freedom and being human.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 too much freedom is a bad thing see all the shit happening in this country and it doesnât matter what you do human is all any of us will ever be
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 controlling your emotions if anything makes you more human itâs what separates us from the animals if animals donât date or wait for consent if we were animals you could just mount @Subarugirl and rape her and thereâd be nothing anyone would do about but because we are humans capable of self control youâd wait till she was ready letting your emotions get the better of you would be savage beast like shameless behavior a adult human should acknowledge these feelings and deal with them accordingly
@Creampiekarl420 yeah... you could probably use a little less freedom...
@Subarugirl why do always gotta 1up me we havenât met in real life and I donât like you are you a Leo or something?
@Creampiekarl420 Iâm not trying to one up you, just prove a point but at least I donât believe in Astrid signs
Why am I not surprised I donât say this to women often but it accurately describes you @Subarugirl youâre a douchebag
@Creampiekarl420 total freedom is anarchy. No one wants that. Doesn't mean the other extreme of no freedom at all is any better.
Like we are trying to explain, there is a difference between controlling your emotions and not having them. You will always have them. They will always in some way control you. Whatever you realize it or not.
For example, many refuse to seek help afraid they will be labeled weak. Fear is an emotion. Anger is an emotion.
@Creampiekarl420 no emotions at all would be total stoicism all your life. Who is like that besides a psychopath? Or a robot?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 strong willed people which apparently youâve never heard of and people who say stuff like that feel that way when you lose any type freedom even if itâs whatâs best
@Creampiekarl420 losing any kind of freedom even when it's better? The COVID restrictions were for the best. I agreed 100% with them. Restrictions on who you can be as a person are a total different thing.
No matter how strong willed. You will never be indifferent to your emotions unless you actually have a mental issue.
@Creampiekarl420 itâs a weird feeling to have your energy given back to you huh?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 okay just said psychopaths should they just be themselves what about rapist murderers and pedophiles? Self control is my whole point here and itâs always good for us itâs not a good look
@Subarugirl you wish you had the intelligence đ
@Creampiekarl420 all of those have self control until they find themselves in a situation where they don't need to have it. They are mentally ill. Why are we using them as reference?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 no they just lack self control because they donât need to when they say this same freedom crap youâre talking about
@Creampiekarl420 both psychopathy and pedophilia are considered mental disorders by the World Health Organization. I think they know a but more of this than you.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 maybe but Iâm talking about self control something you are apparently against
@Creampiekarl420 I wouldn't be where I am at with out it hon.
@Subarugirl delusional much? a Down syndrome hog with intelligence slightly superior to yours would be the smartest animal in the world
@Creampiekarl420 oooh that's mature... name calling from a 22 year old kid pretending to be a scientist... My feeling are soo hurt XD
Stop calling me a kid thatâs not my correct age Iâm 24 your like 10 months older than me
@Creampiekarl420 oh so you are a liar then too.. if you don't want to be treated like a child then stop acting like one. My 5 year old is better behaved.
@Creampiekarl420 Not at all. I am all for it.
For the hundred time, self control and mental toughness is one thing. Pushing emotions down until you die inside because you can't deal with them is another.
To not express your feeling out of fear that people will judge you. Is fear. Or out of disgust for the person you become if you do it. Is also an emotion. Everything is linked to emotions.
@Subarugirl no youâre just a bad listener who hears what she wants to hear and jumps to conclusions and I am mature see I didnât even insult your child and I had a really good one too
This is complex but their rooted Freudian reasons for this. Men are subconsciously motivated to procreate and crying makes us âlook weakâ and less attractive in front of women.
I can still remember the only time I cried in front of my ex when I said âI missed talking to herâ. That was the ONLY time I ever cried in front her. Ever.
She gave me one of the nastiest most callous nastiest shrieking responses I have ever heard from a woman in my life. She said with âwith EXES I donât talk because itâs weirdâ. It was said in absolute pure disgust.
In retrospect as horrible as that was I can see was very uncomfortable. That doesnât justify how she handled it but it just goes to show how the raw female subconscious judges men who show vulnerability: at best men look like other women when they do this. At worst they are gross and disgusting.
I would say I am someone that I agree with both sides so I can neer say one od the other. I agree that people should be allowed to express how they feel, allowing yourself to feel those feelings can really help you when it comes to getting it out of your system, and sadly a lot of men are not really allowed or have a safe space for those kinds of things. BUT I also agree that one thing men are good at is separating feelings and being able to get the solutions to what is causing them the pain rather than sitting there being emotional which can get you nowhere if you are not looking for a solution so just becomes an endless loop. So I would say men should be allowed to cry and show their feelings but dont push it on to them, let them only if they want to, by giving that space. because the moment you start to let men be more emotional they won't know when it's too much. It's one thing to deal with men which as we know can be dangerous, but you dont want to deal with an emotional man.
So here is the deal with men, we do not really give a shit. I mean real men do not honestly, we endure and let go of so much stuff through the course of average day... that we just do not want to pretend to be bothered if women or people in general want to believe that if men cried more this would be a better world.
I belief in a world were men are men, and women are women. Women do women shit, and men do men shit, and nobody gives a shit if men should do less man shit and more women shit, or if women should stop doing some women shit and do more man shit.
I like my women to be a women, and sure I would like women to be less emotional, and empathetic to everyone and everything... but heh, I love women for being women, like I really love them.
What I do not like to see some guy acting like a women over petty shit, and when I see a man acting like that I say, "Hey, man you need to man the shit up because you are acting a women.
Women attend to be a lot more dramatic and toxic.
@Alwayreckles93 correct, and the last thing we need is more men crying about it. Its just not what men do and there is no reason why we should.
I understand something I've noticed man are a lot more relax and chill.
I used to think that we should normalize crying for men..
But now I just think that it's so rooted im human nature that men risk looking weak to women. I mean even if we normalized it in society there would still be a natural preference for _some_ women to loose interest.
I now think that it's a responsability for men to create environments and circles to deal with emotions and men's issues. Normalize it within men's culture. And for women to understand and know to give space for such.
But ofc it would be awesome to find that kind of a woman who aren't affected by signs of weakness. To understand that the greatest strength is to know to let things out. Because if you keep it in it will manifest in other ways. But like said that's about wisdom not gut-feelings.
Not that I'm "MGTOW" but I remember th holding a conference discussing the things they face and they were "forced" to let radical feminazi on the panel to devalue and harass them and dehumanize them as they talked about things affecting their lives and suicide rates in men and such. Another conference shut down due to feminazis threatening to blow the building up. Crazy.
What? What type of conference was that? Was it like a media-thing or was it some type of program irl?
I think the types of places men turn to still need to be safe spaces. It's not wrong to include a woman but they'd need to be rational and be open to understand that a mans perspective is not necessarily the same.
MGTOW, men going their own way. They talk about breaking from societal norms such as being dating, marriage, being a provide to focusing solely on themselves. Things society expect them to do. The would hold gathering to talk about issues that male culture is facing. such as mental health, suicide rates, incarceration rates. I think this happened in Canada. They had to let a female on the panel to basically tell them to man up and that they are wrong for feeling how the feel and just plain mock them. This was a meeting held in real life
There was a woman already on the panel. She identified as an egalitarian and not a feminist though.
Huh. I knew of MGTOW but I didn't know there were actions being taken like that. But then I have been blind to what's been going on in Canada until somewhere around 2021 when I realized they radicalized left further than the US did. It's scary to see, I just hope the examples of how bad idea this is will become evident sooner than later.
It just goes to show that many of the extremist feminists (not all) don't know what they are doing. They don't seem to be able to see beyond their own vision. Ignoring facts, studies and opting for opinions and personal experiences.
I don't live in the US or Canada but I am following the developments of these countrues as Europe and my own country (Sweden) have followed in their footsteps.
It seems from my perspective that the right, center and former classic liberals in the US is willing to have debates and in-depth discussions but I rarely see any radical leftists stand up to defend their views outside of trying to cancel, throw slurs or relying on the very biased US media to ignore the points with their narrow formats refusal to listen.
I have yet to hear much rational or backed up arguments that has held water.
Do they know at all what they are trying to push through snd do they know how to make solid solutions or are they just dismantling things.. sorry I'm on a rant...
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