The IRA bombed 2 pubs in Birmingham, The Tavern In The Town and The Mulberrybush, I know they want to liberate their country from British occupation, but those pubs were full of civilians, they had non right to kill civilians. Whoever did that must've gone to confession afterwards, we should've arrested every priest in Birmingham and forced them to talk. This is why I don't support those limp wristed fagots at Amnesty International, some people deserve to have electrodes attached to their testicles. Catholic priests are vermin covering up for criminals, if a friend told me he'd done a murder and I didn't pass that information on to the police I'd be arrested and charged as an acesory after the fact, why should priests be above the law?
Yep a lot of injustices during the troubles.
Yes he should. This is also how the pedophile priests got away with it plus the stupid victims going to the church to do something about it instead of the cops. I hope John Paul II is in hell getting fuck by the devil himself. It clearly states in 1st Corinthians that you are to throw out habitual sinners like pedophile priests and The Pope did NOTHING. You're not to counsel them, move them or even forgive them you are to throw them out. It's in plain black and white. I guess John Paul didn't read that or just didn't give a fuck. The Catholic Church makes me want to vomit with their confidentiality bs
i'm not religious, but i was raised catholic, so here are my 2 cents:
(where i live, anyway) doctors can break patient confidentiality if 1) required by court subpoena or 2) they believe that the person is at a high risk for self-injurious and/or suicidal behaviour.
therefore, i'd say the priest would be legally obligated to break his vows if he had reason to believe that people's lives were in danger.
Legally forcing him to break his vows is a violation of human rights guaranteed by IN charter which most countries are signed up too.
@DonkeyRick69 The Church forced Galileo Galilei to recant with threats of torture and we now know Galileo was right and the Pope was wrong. Turn and turn about's fair play, if the Church can torture people we should be slowed to give them a taste of their own medicine.
@Bezbozhnikustanka torture was big back in the day. The British state tortures people all the time. Atheists in the SS had people tortured.
@DonkeyRick69 The state tortures the wrong people, that Baha Mousa was innocent, but, a lot of people who deserve to be tortured don't get tortured. I'm sure you could get priests to break their vows and rat on criminals if you got a car battery and a set of jump leads and electrified their testivles.
@Bezbozhnikustanka inadmissible in court and breaks human rights laws.
@DonkeyRick69 The Catholics didn't respect Galileo's human rights. As for inadmissable, I'm not suggesting torturing a priest to get him to confess, I'm suggesting he be tortured to make him testifiy against some scum bag who confessed to the priest without being tortured.
@Bezbozhnikustanka Priests have been tortured through history for their beliefs.
@Bezbozhnikustanka why do you hate priests so much?
@Justinaveragedude he was rejected by a preist he liked during his altar boy days lol
The priest is bound by his religion not to do so. if he were to tell anyone what has been confessed to him, he can only be forgiven by the pope. That, of course, does not mean he would do nothing about it. He would try to get the person to come forward to the police, or at the very least stop committing the crimes.
The priest is unable to disclose the confession of murder if it was said during confession. The priest has the same level of protection (if not more) as a doctor/ patient privilege as anything said is strictly confidential.
Will a murderer confess to a preist knowing the priest will call the cops?
@DonkeyRick69 Will a murderer confess to a psychiatrist knowing the psychiatrist will call the cops? Why should priests be above the law but not doctors? If a friend confesses to me that he's killed a Catholic priest I'm not going to call the cops because the priest wouldn't call the cops if I'd been murrdeted.
@Bezbozhnikustanka They aren't above the law but the law guarantees freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is a basic human right and guaranteed by UN charter. I think you miss the point.
@DonkeyRick69 If I worship Baphomat or Quetzocoatl do I have the right to practice human sacrifice? Of course not! Catholic priests are scum, they shield criminals, they should be forced to obey the law like normal people.
@Bezbozhnikustanka they do obey the law, the law gives them the ability to hear confession and respect privilege. Why don't you take up your complaints with governments who give them said rights.
@Justinaveragedude it's considered a sacrament so being forced to break it is religious persecution. Like you wouldn't force a Muslim to eat pigs?
@DonkeyRick69 I believe in religious freedoms, I also know that governments give observe these rights, so tell a priest they are above the law when the law observes it is stupid. So his focus is misguided.
@Justinaveragedude it's upheld by the UN human rights
@DonkeyRick69 UN human rights is a multinational government organization. Still government
@Justinaveragedude exactly the highest there is.
@DonkeyRick69 it is still the government his issue is with.
@Justinaveragedude still freedom of religion is protected
@DonkeyRick69 by the government, that is my point. It is protected by the government. His argument about how horrible priests are is misplaced.
@Justinaveragedude I don't just hate priests, I also hate vikers, rabaies, imams, swamies, gurus and fakiers. There are 2 kinds of religion, religions like Christianity tell us God in His divine wisdom decided to make the Queen, Prince Charles and Kim Kardashian rich and me poor and I just have to respect my betters because to question the fairness of capitalism is to question God's right to make some rich and others poor and that's blasphemy. Then you've got your Hindus, they believe if you're rich and healthy that's your reward for being good in a past life, if you're born a Harijan that's punishment for sinning in a past life, Brhamins are better than you and you've got to respect your betters. Bollocks!!! It's pure dumb luck, rich people want the proletariat to believe in religion because if we believe we'll get justice after we're dead we won't demand a fair redistribution of wealth here in the real world.
@Bezbozhnikustanka ssshhhh. It's ok. (holds a weeping @Bezbozhnikustanka in his arms while stroking his hair)
@Bezbozhnikustanka ironic considering the rich push for atheism instead of religion. You are just a bitter hateful person. I wasn't born rich. I am still not rich, but I make a good living. I worked hard to get where I am. You just bitch about wanting the world to give you what you consider your fair share. How about you whine less and earn more.
@Justinaveragedude I did everything right, I studied, got accepted on a course, everyone who completed the course is rich and successful, if I'd been slowed to complete the course I'd be rich and happy, but, an unaccountable multinational decided to downsize. I hate society, democracy's a sick joke, what's the point in me having a vote when I only get to choose the PM who has no real power? All the decisions that matter are taken by unelected millionaires working for multinational corporations. The Bible says God in His infinite wisdom made other people rich and he wants me to be poor and just accept that rich people are better than me, bollocks, it's all down to luck, God didn't will it that Kim Kardashian should be born with more money than me, God can't will anything, he didn't even exist.
@Justinaveragedude The Queen didn't push for atheism, she's head of The Church Of England, Defensor Fideli, she pretends to be a christian. The Bible says it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter The Kingdom Of God. If she really beloved that bullshit she'd give all her money away so she can go to heaven when she dies.
@Bezbozhnikustanka for his time Job was the wealthiest man alive. But he still followed God. Satan told God that if he took all his wealth Job would curse God. So God allowed Satan to take everything, but not touch Job. Job still praised and followed God. So Satan told God that if Job became ill he would Curse God. So God said, do anything you want, just do not kill him. And Satan made Job ill, and gave him boils and sores. But still Job praised God.
The Bible say it is easier, but not impossible. Keep in mind that with God nothing is impossible. The Queen is the head of the Church, but what is the true seat of power in the UK? Also, 60% are reportedly Christian in England so she does a fine job as Defender of the Faith.
@Justinaveragedude Book of Ennoch CHAPTER XCVII.
1. Believe, ye righteous, that the sinners will become a shame
And perish in the day of unrighteousness.
2. Be it known unto you (ye sinners) that the Most High is mindful of your destruction,
And the angels of heaven rejoice over your destruction.
3. What will ye do, ye sinners,
And whither will ye flee on that day of judgement,
When ye hear the voice of the prayer of the righteous?
4. Yea, ye shall fare like unto them,
Against whom this word shall be a testimony:
"Ye have been companions of sinners."
5. And in those days the prayer of the righteous shall reach unto the Lord,
And for you the days of your judgement shall come.
6. And all the words of your unrighteousness shall be read out before the Great Holy One,
And your faces shall be covered with shame,
And He will reject every work which is grounded on unrighteousness.
7. Woe to you, ye sinners, who live on the mid ocean and on the dry land,
Whose remembrance is evil against you.
@Bezbozhnikustanka 8... Woe to you who acquire silver and gold in unrighteousness and say:
"We have become rich with riches and have possessions;
And have acquired everything we have desired. p. 139
9. And now let us do what we purposed:
For we have gathered silver,
9d And many are the husbandmen in our houses."
9e And our granaries are (brim) full as with water,
10 Yea and like water your lies shall flow away;
For your riches shall not abide
But speedily ascend from you;
For ye have acquired it all in unrighteousness,
And ye shall be given over to a great curse.
Opinion
19Opinion
Yes he should, but we don't need a hypothetical, we could talk about the coverings up of child rape that actually happened
In an ideal world, I think that the priest should tell.
However, If I'm not mistaken, confession is supposed to be done behind blinds to obscure the identity of the person from the priest. What info could the priest really pass along to police? He could say that he heard a voice, but probably can't identify anything else.
Not always. It can be done anywhere. You can actually approach a priest asking for the sacrament of confession.
no, priests would never tell the police. ever
EVER
and no he has no obligation to tell the police. the rules of God are higher than the rules of men. a priests job is to help the person in front of him. so he may try to convince the murderer to turn himself in and repent
priest are told to keep the vow unless it puts the confessor or anyone else in danger.
So if a murderer confessed that he intended to kill your wife/mother/daughter or anyone else close to you, and you later found out that the priest kept his vow, you'd be okay with that?
Atatch electrodes to their testivles, they'll talk. I knew a guy who used to be a soldier in Ireland, after a soldiers was shot he saw a man run into a church with a riffle, then come out again wearing different clothes without the riffle. Catholic priest store IRA weapons and spare clothes in those confessionals. Soldiers have to wear uniforms, it's the Geneva Convention, the IRA were cheating and the Church was helping them, I'd like to see a Catholic priest with electrodes attached to his testicles.
@ThisDudeHere no potential murder would confess to a priest if they knew the priest would blab. So there would be no one to talk to him and convince the person not to kill.
@Bezbozhnikustanka it's in the Geneva Convention not to massacre unarmed civilians. Thirty years on not one murdering British soldier or RUC officer has been jailed.
@DonkeyRick69 Okay, so they got away with a few crimes, but, the IRA cheated by not wearing uniforms, priests his their weapons and gave them a change of clothes, efectivly the Church was part of the IRA, therefore, all priests were a legitimate target and should've been shot. I object to the IRA murdering plebs in Birmingham, I don't object to them killing Lord Mountbatten, he was born rich, I was born poor, I hate everyone who was born with more money than me, I don't mind a bit of terrorism as long as only rich people are getting blown up.
@Bezbozhnikustanka a few crimes? They shot unarmed British citizens in the street first the ballymurphey massacre and then again at a civil rights march on bloody Sunday in Derry, up until there was no IRA, before that they interned thousands of Irish Catholics who were British citizens. The British security services all through it armed and colluded with unionist terror groups to committ the murders of British citizens. The RUC spent years before and after terrorising and murdering British citizens. To date no member of the Brittish security forces has been jailed for crimes committed against Brittish citizens they killed, beat and tortured.
Please remember the little boy mountbatton ( or mountbottom as he was known in the British army) was buggering didn't deserve to die. Also remember it was the preists that convinced the IRA to a ceasefire and helped build the peace.
@DonkeyRick69 I don't know anything about a little boy, but, if he was Mountbatons son he would've gone to a posh private school and got a better education than me so I'm glad he died. Everyone who's parents can afford to send them to a private school should be killed, it's not fair people with rich parents go to better schools and gat better educations than ordinary plebs like me.
@Bezbozhnikustanka no he was a local boy.
@DonkeyRick69 Oh, I remember now, I saw a documentary about it, he was a pleb working on Mountbatten's yachet, as far as I'm concerned if you're a rich man's Derbent you're a class traitor, if plebs refused to work for poshos there'd be no point in being rich, people only become rich so they can lord it over other people.
Servant, I meant servant, I'm on meds so I can't type properly, but, I'd go insane again if I stopped taking them, so it's worth it.
@Bezbozhnikustanka the little abused boy was a class traitor? I'm sure he "worked" on the boat.
@Bezbozhnikustanka my mother told me that when the occasional lord or upper class yuppy stayed at the hotel she worked in a lot of them brought an underage "secretary" or " caddy". One of the Every time he stayed has the bedsheets covered in black shit. Laws are only forblittle people.
u Under absolutely no circumstances can the Seal of Confession be broken, even in matters like this. No exceptions. The priest can (and should) certainly counsel the person to turn his or her self in to the police, admit to their crime, apologize to the family, and accept whatever punishment that the justice system issues, but the priest is not to break the Seal of Confession. It is absolutely inviolable. He can't even tell the Pope what someone said.
A priest cannot reveal anything that someone confesses to him. If he tells the police, I think he commits a sin against the Lord. If the murderer truly repents for the sin he did, whatever he receives is under God's decision.
But, a priest cannot simply take a confession from a person who took part in abortion. Abortion is considered to be a dangerous sin done against God.
No. If he breaks the seal of confession he could be excommunicated. If a priest could be forced legally or was obligated legally to break the seal of confession the murder would not confess the crime to the police and the priest would not be able to counsel the person into coming forward to the police about the murder. If be willing to bet that a lot of crimes have been solved due to a priest convincing a criminal to go to the police.
I think he has an obligation NOT to tell the police. I believe they may be able to tell if the guy mentions he's going to kill someone who he hasn't yet, but if he already did it and isn't giving any signs he plans to again, then I think the priest is supposed to stay mum.
umm.. no.. even as an athiest.. vows are vows..
just as doctors vow to heal and cause no harm.. I wouldn't want that to be broken either (no matter what)
especially then.. that vow is sacred (above mens laws) .. a pact between his god and himself.. if he cannot uphold his end he forsakes his own creator..
priest are told to keep the vow unless it puts the confessor or anyone else in danger. Same as doctors.
exactly.. as long as he's not confessing to murdering more people.. he should keep his mouth shut by order of his god..
mire people as in.. in the future*
So if I kill the Pope then confess to one of his cardinals I get away with it, cool. I'd love to kill the Pope because he lives in a big marble palace, I think anyone who can afford a home built out of marble deserves to die, I can't even afford a groty little flat of my own, I have to live with my mother, why should the Pope be rich and live in a palace when I'm poor and misseriable, I'd like to kill every millionaire on the planet.
🤔 so it's somehow every millionaires fault you failed at life.. maybe if you got a better education and worked a little harder you would be able to afford a nice flat of your own, hell maybe even a marble palace..
But sure, murder the pope 😂😂😂 that'll fix your life...
Yes, he should tell. A family could live out the rest of their lives not knowing what happened or who did it. They deserve the answer far more than the murderer deserves privacy. Fuck it, the murderer has no rights at that point.
priest are told to keep the vow unless it puts the confessor or anyone else in danger.
@TheChocolateWriter And what if the murderer is after the rest of the family too? They're in clear danger.
I think it'd be a laugh to hunt down a priest's entire family, rape, torture and kill his parents, brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces and cousins, then go to confessional and see how he feels about keeping shtum then.
it's the law to tell the police if you see a crime and if you don't your going to get in trouble if it's something small like stealing a candy bar who cares? But murder yes it's his duty as an American to tell the authorities
Should the priest have to tell the police about rape and assault, too? If not, why not?
And what about non-priests? What if someone tells me they murdered, raped or assaulted someone? Should I have to tell the police this, or risk going to jail? Or should there be different laws for priests, where they get punished, but others don't for not reporting a murder confession?
No. The priest is obligated to keep his mouth shut. If that weren't the case, then why go confide in him.
His duty is two-fold - to try and get the killer to turn himself in to the police, and to absolve him IF he feels the killer is truly remorseful.
Even psychiatrists break confidentiality in the case of harm agaist others, or harm against the self.
I can't tell my psychiatrist I fantasize about killing rich people, he's threatened to certified me insane and lock me up. If psychiatrist have to protect the scum of the Earth, let's face it, rich people are vermin, none of them deserve to live, why should priests be allowed to shield scum who murder ordinary plebs out for a well deserved beer after a hard day's work?
Okay I'm not sure if there is confusion here, but a psychiatrist is REQUIRED to report it if you claim that you're going to hurt yourself or someone else. But if you confess to a crime thats already been committed, they don't. They can still be subpoenaed to testify if you're caught by law enforcement.
There is no way for them to prove that you have actually committed a crime, or if you're just being delusional, but they have to do all they can to keep you from committing a violent crime if they think you'll do it.
@Bezbozhnikustanka you are a bitter hateful individual who actually does not have a clue what he is talking about. If you told your shrink that you were thinking of killing someone they would want to help you work through your anger, not have you declared insane. You actually have to do something before they can do that or have been displaying that behavior long enough that they have reason to suspect you will do something they yourself or others imminently. But hey, as hatefilled as you are, he probably would have you committed.
Yes, he does. And if it comes out that he knew and kept that information to himself, he should be charged for witholding information.
Charged or excommunication. Whivhbdo you think he will choose?
Yeah but that means in future a murderer or potential murderer or someone who committed an unspeakable crime won't come to confessions and the priest will not be able to counsel that person into coming forward to the police or not committing the crime altogether. How many murders were solved by a person coming forward after being counseled by a priest. Why would you confess murder to a priest if you know its not confidental.
My point still stands.
What about a criminal defense attorney? If their client confesses murder to them, should they have to disclose that, or risk going to jail themselves?
The Priest can not tell the police, but they can encourage the man to confess. When the law is broken they do encourage those who confess to step forward as it is the right thing to do.
Anything said to a priest, lawyer, psychologist, psychiatrist is to remain confidential as long as they are wearing the professional hat.
lol, when questioned by police there "confidentiality" begins to crumble real quick.
Usually they are flown to the Vatican first
@DonkeyRick69 only if they are pedophiles.
i meant if they are questioned about another church member they give really quickly lest there is pedophilia involved
They do it in case they are forced to break a confession.
I'm sick of people hiding behind religious freedom to commit crimes.
is a spiritual exercise the priest will be wrong to do so
Well, you are getting one from a Baptist Agnostic Theist.
Yes. And most priest would.
He has to follow the law like everyone else. He would be withholding evidence.
basic human decency implores him too, fuck his vows
yes of course. if something Else Happen after he knows He ve also The redponsibility
I think police should just bug confessional to avoid this problem
Everyone who lives in Liverpool is a criminal, the reason is they're not really English, they're descended from Irishmen who came over to avoid the potato famine and they still practice Catholicism, they think they can do anything they like, then,2 Hail Marty's and 3 Our Fathers and all's forgiven.
A priest isn't allowed to do that
Yes he does
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