Men in the USA have supported movements like abolitionism, anti colonialism etc but why can't they see the problems that many men endure in the world from paternity fraud, false rape, custody and child support etc. Why does no one protest when Germany and France ban paternity tests is it not a man's reproductive right to know whether the children he is raising are his own?
Whats preventing you to have the same passion that men have had for anti racism, abolitionism, anti colonialism etc that made you form movements that gained international influence.
Why isn't the men's right movement more popular with men?
Why isn't the men's rights movement popular among men?
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Because it's seen as weakness. It's seen as complaining instead of fixing it yourself.
When you get involved in this you make yourself a leper to womankind. Even though I think the grievances are entirely valid, if I declare myself a MRA I consequently cut myself off from society because people hate this kind of thing.
Most guys need women to support it and give it the okay before they're willing to wade in themselves. Fundamentally it's women that need to support it, in general no one gives a fuck about a guy's problems unless they're a close friend or relative, if women involve themselves and support the issues then guys feel comfortable doing so as well.
Just adding more guys when nobody care what guys think doesn't really help. Sure there's more voices, but that doesn't mean they're going to be accepted. Many women are perfectly comfortable just adding them to the list of men who they think are *unworthy* and disregard them. After all, a "real man" takes care of women, right? So shifting the attention not only away from women but to him -- and not just to him but to ways in which he is weak or failing, this is considered a mortal sin. Unlike with women's rights, to advocate for men's rights as a man is to not be a man in the eyes of others, women in particular.
In this country, the majority of men understand that the original feminism has resulted in many advances for women but later feminism has resulted in some absurd results. Though men suffer some disadvantages, most of us are happy with the status quo.
We also understand that those who whine and complain about men's rights are the MGTOW butt hurt crowd who want to blame all women for their failure as men. I refer to these guys as MFTOCEM (Men Fixin' Their Own Coffee Every Morning) and I don't want any part of their attitude or agenda. Life isn't perfect but I LOVE women and I want to be close to one, not pushing all of them away! And I am glad to have a woman occasionally fix my coffee in the morning! :)
I've had so many conversations about this with men who do rightly complain about these issues...
...what is the point of complaining year after year, and doing nothing about it? No one handed women, women's rights. These were centuries long fights to get where we are now. It's easy to point at women and say---you're the cause of all our problems---which unfortunately some men do, but ask those same men to go protest or vote or show up at a hearing about such issues or take up the cause themselves, and crickets.
If anyone wants to know why anything in this life is not getting done or changes are not being made, it's because those same people are the ones asking "what is someone else doing about this," rather than "what am I doing about this?"
Exactly! That's what I dislike about my generation is that we expect everything to be handed to us. But noooooo! The only reason why the women's rights movement and civil rights movement was so successful id because people were on one accord with one another and actually fought for what they believe in. Some people died for us to live the life we're living today so if we want something done then we can't just go on the internet and whine all day. Get up and do something🤦🏾🤦🏾
Starting an activist movement is not a walk in the park. There are many opponents who want to see you destroyed, beaten, and put in prison. They go to far lengths to do that. Greenpeace for example, is a movement that suffered heavily from opposition even though the public was totally blind to it.
@esotericstory No one is denying that fighting against an establishment is hard and can potentially end in loss of life or imprisonment etc., but not everyone has to be in the street---you can also vote, petition, join groups that help fight the good fight from behind the scenes, but if you are any type of human being who constantly complains about any group or law that potentially or does oppress you, simply repeating "this sucks" is not going to do anything. Do you disagree with that?
I am a political activist myself and I can tell you that if your movement does not have street activists, your movement will not be successful. You need to exercise public presence, or people don't consider you a movement at all. Secondly, movements of any kind are doomed if they only exist out men, because public opinion never considers them to be serious. Nowadays, you need women, that's a fact.
@esotericstory None of what you said am I disagreeing with, but if you're saying men fear things like jail or beatings, at least in the US, they have an option to vote or protest in other ways or support those protesting rather than be on the front line, meaning it's not enough to say, well I fear those things IF there is another option to protest or fight for their rights other than being on the front lines.
---BUT---you can't do nothing and expect something to happen. That is the bottom line. If a guy is going to lecture me about how unfair it is that he can't get custody of his kid because of the laws in this country and I say, what are you doing about it, are you voting, are you calling on action groups, are you talking to people in similar situations to try to change this (men or women mind you) and he says to me, he's not doing anything nor does he plan to do anything aside from accept his fate...then that's just it. Accept it and stop complaining because if you're not willing to even try to fight for yourself, how can you even recruit others to do the same for you?
People won't fight if they dont believe change is possible. They dont believe that because of atomization. They dont believe an alternative can be possible. I'm not saying that not fighting is justifiable though.
@esotericstory Well the lyrics to the song say, "let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me," for a reason.
I will say this though----in terms of women's rights---like the right to vote---this was something that affected every woman and with women's health rights---again, something that potentially affects all women. With the push, it seems (at least to me) against things like marriage or a resistance to having kids...I think it's a harder case to make for men to want to do these things if they think it won't affect them. Take rape, men are less likely to be raped then women. We're talking 1 to 5 as compared to 1 to 71. Ask a man if he knows another man who has been raped: you very well may hear crickets, so to then urge that man to get out and protest for stronger laws for rape against men or to raise money to build a shelter for abused men---I don't see the average group of guys getting fired up to do that. More civic minded, more educated, those who have experienced the tragedy, yes but a harder sell for others.
Male contraceptives like something better than condoms, and also decreasing workplace accidents could be things that men could campaign for but I dont see it happening.
That’s what I’m always saying. Men really do have the most to complain about but I don’t see any of them actually doing shit about it 👀 And dudes want to talk about how they need to be more “masculine” and “alpha” and assertive... yet again... they do absolutely nothing. They just flap their gums as if it’s actually solving their problems 😂😂😂
Seriously, a lot of men love to bitch and moan about how women don’t have any respect for them and how women have too much freedom and too much independence.
WELL I WONDER WHYYY? 👀😂 there’s not much to respect or depend on, sorry 😐
Well a few reasons why. First of all there is not really a need to. Sure there are injustices as there are for any group of people be it of race, gender, religion or otherwise there will always be injustices in our current society but men (especially white men) are having it extremely easy compared to others.
Secondly movements that are explicitly "mens rights" are usually really bad organizations that is not about seeking equality or to help men.
Thirdly there is a "mens rights movements that are popular with men" ... its called feminism and it is for everyones rights including men.
3
2 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Men's rights organisations are not bad organisation, you just refuse to give them any credibility based on your confirmation bias.
Feminism does nothing but undermine men's rights as they did in California in laws that were against paternity fraud.
It was not Mens rights groups that for example gave men equal parental leave to women in my country. It was feminists. So yeah.. never did anything right? Also Mens rights organizations are as bad as they come.
Personally, I feel that men’s rights aren’t a as popular as women’s rights, because men have been given more opportunities in history like the right to vote, schooling, and having a job, when those things were considered to be guy things. Plus, I think that the physical strength of a man somehow plays a major factor but I don’t really know how though😂 that’s not to say that men aren’t treated unfairly because they definitely can be at times. But I just think them being treated unfairly is different then when women are treated unfairly, but I guess it’s like tomato, tomahto, because any form of discrimination IS discrimination.
Whenever I hear about men's rights activists, I often think about the type of person who needs to be one.
I think men have a choice, and should be able to express it... But women have only recently been able to put themselves on the same level of the status quo... And it's still debatable whether or not we are still equal.
But if men, or women for that matter, think that western society is dominated by women in the slightest... It's just taking pride in being ignorant at that point.
Sure, a lot of people take advantage of being a woman, a lot of people also take advantage of being men. I've met people like that on this site.
It's not a matter of perspective to me, it's a matter of ignorant rhetoric that bothers me.
Nobody cares about men because we are disposable utilities. Look at films like Titanic and Saving Private Ryan for instance. Even factory farming (females and a few alpha male chicks while the rest of the male chicks go straight in to a mincer) it's the same. You also see men homeless but not women. Women get there fair share of sex but majority of men don't.
All these examples are never addressed because men are not privileged like women are...
@inmensus the system has been constructed for women to have a good life where they don't need to put any effort in to anything because it's left to men to do all the work. Why do you think male suicide rate is really high and women live longer?
@Americanteengirl That's not what it means, you should go read up on it, it's actually some pretty interesting stuff.
For example, researchers found that if you treat women with equality other people view it as treating them in a negatively sexist manner, if you say your treating them with equality and that's the reason for your behavior it's viewed as less sexist but still sexist. When you treat women with preferential treatment it's viewed as treating them with equality.
Another example would be "women and children first" or "chivalry" or white knighting etc..
Women have own group preference Men have female group preference
it's way way way to much stuff to properly articulate here.
Someone please explain to me wtf this even is. Mens rights? Women couldn't vote, still getting paid less, cat called, raped, forced abortions, etc etc.
However, I can see on certain issues, like custody of children where courts maybe partial to the woman/mother, and divorce but I don't think an issue like that could be considered a movement.
When men are also the one who are charged more due to false accusation, workplace injury, paying for child support, paying for marriage and for the dates. Oh and men don't get paid more because of that. They get paid more because of longer work hours and takes less sickly leaves and they work in a death risk a job more often. There is laws for rape for your information. Since when can't women vote, drive and take men's responsibilities? They can do that anytime but a lot of women just chose not to and for your information the wage gap has nothing to do with discrimination because it is illegal to pay someone less just because of their gender and you still continue demonizing men like it is OK.
Because after everything was all fun and dandy 3rd wave feminism which was unnecessary came along and ruined everything for us plus the idea that men have problems too, women nowadays are still taught that they dont have equal rights (this is for western countries btw) when they do and learn that men dont have any problems and then complain about issues that dont even exist like Male previliage or toxic masculinity
Because men hate other men. It's called Internalized misandry. Truly I think 20% of my energy is spent keeping myself from ripping every fucker I see apart. But fuck it i love it. Embrace your toxic masculinity.
Its because men have an individuality mindset. I dont really pay attention to anything out of my sphere. Ie i focus on my business my family myself. I dont feel a need to band w people to do something about something. doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
Because the majority of the men's rights movement is made up of crybaby incels, neckbeards, basement dwellers, and other chumps who are salty they can't get any, and I'd rather not be associated with that lot
Because these movements are opposed and shut down by black blocks. Google that 'black block'. If you deviate from the dominant ideology you get beaten the crap out of by these black blockers.
It might be because when someone has a problem and they feel like a larger group will make ones problem bigger than the others problem, then why try to fight for the original problem in the first place. Hopefully that made a little sense.
Only a very few of us take the issue seriously. A lot of people I see only the use the men's movement as a way to belittle the women's movement. I acknowledge the fact that both men and women movements are important and need to be dealt with.
Because men have supressed women troughought history treating them like objects and property, not giving them basic han rights like eg. Right to vote so it would seem hipocritical of them to complain about what some women do to some men
Thats the exact same narrative Marx used to justify Communist revolution. Dont you understand that this narrative does not hold true if you study history? Ruling classes was comprised of both men and women, not men only.
@esotericstory in the past physical strength was everything and as we can see men have used their advantage Im not saying men should be treated badly or unfairly due to history tho Anyway i think @Browneye57 perfectly summed it up
@devilish-cutie Thats simply incorrect but I am going to refrain from starting an argument here. If physical strength was indeed everything, politics, diplomacy and espionage would never have been invented.
Because most men do not wish to have part in a movement that promotes discrimination against the opposite gender while claiming victimhood for themselves whenever they do not get constant special treatment like feminists always do.
Feminism is already a cancer on society, we do not need two of them.
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
They don't want special treatment just reproductive rights.
I think most men just don't really care. Or there is just a cultural difference, such as the unity of the family apparently being far more important in France (or so I've heard).
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
That's just BS the the law of filiation in france sure does a lot of somersaults when it suits the agenda.
Or paternity testing is an exception in case of sexual abuse yet paternity fraud is not an exception. why?
What rights do I need? I need black rights but man right I'm pretty good on. I guess you can argue 2 things The marriage spousal support And the ability to opt out of parent hood around the first 90 day or something like that
The Australian men's rights movement has made the government repeal laws that forced men to pay child support for non biological children that where the result of extramarital affairs. Although paternity fraud is still not criminalized in any country.
The Canadian association for equality has joined calls for Canada's Inquiry Into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women to include boys and men, based on the fact that 70% of murdered indigenous people are men. It has also raised 200k to build the countries first shelter for male victims of domestic violence.
The NCFM (National coalition for men) has obtained a court order declaring the draft to be unconstitutional, who else would have done this for men?
Why is this is not considered a rights movement to you?
Yet none of those things has ever been on the list of anything an MRA has told me he was concerned about. And almost everything that has been on their lists are things they are doing nothing about and aren't rights violations to begin with. They make false claims about being overly oppressed in society, and are generally just angry anti-feminists.
You just ignored what I typed about what men's rights organisations have done and yet stick to the assertion that MRA's do nothing but make false claims. So much for your rationality. The only one who made false assertions is you.
I didn't ignore it. I told you what my experience has been.
Men just working for the benefit of men in society is what men have always done. No special movement was needed. The "movement" is actually about discrediting feminists.
While I do agree that the issues they bring up are completely valid, the movement tends to be full of incels, who blame all of their problems on women rather than accept that almost all of their problems are their own fault.
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Then you don't know or care to know about the men's rights movement.
I'm not familiar with French law. I know a man in New York did 6 years in prison for not paying child support for a child he knew wasn't his. Apparently Germany is following the French lead.
@HereIbe Contesting it is disallowed , it's called default paternity anybody who the woman names as the father without regard for the physical capability of the person to defend himself. These men who have never met the woman are sentenced to economic slavery for 18-25 years including minors. In one particular case a homeless was having his inheritance money from his mother stolen by a heartless wretch who knew he had nothing to do with her or her hellspawn.
WRONG, you moron! Section 516-b (iv) of the pertinent New York state law allows for challenge. I QUOTE THE ACTUAL LAW, you LIAR:
"After the expiration of the time limits set forth in paragraphs (i) and (ii) of this subdivision, any of the signatories to an acknowledgment of paternity may challenge the acknowledgment in court by alleging and proving fraud, duress, or material mistake of fact. If the petitioner proves to the court that the acknowledgment of paternity was signed under fraud, duress, or due to a material mistake of fact, the court shall then order genetic marker tests or DNA tests for the determination of the child's paternity."
Since, in this case, it was fraud by the women, HE HAS A RIGHT TO CHALLENGE. You are just a lying sack of shit.
I love how a lot of women here are talking about history ignoring the fact that history is history when the world was liberated from the oppression of women years ago.
Yes they do. Look I gave you a place where you can inform yourself on the matter. If you don't check it out and keep your argument you are being ignorant by choice
I wonder why are you so angry with us. You and so many other women. I really don't know. Yes there are some shitty men yes. So since some exist every men in the world can just fuck themselves?
@Americanteengirl I never said you had it all good! I never said that women don't have problems that need to be solved as soon as possible. Of course they do! And I am all for it! Just because one group also has it's problems doesn't mean we are dismissing the other side.
Women in the East are not oppressed, especially not just because you say they are. Most of the women in places like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Nigeria, etc. are perfectly contempt with their role in society and very few seek actual change in the societal arrangement. Even if they did seek change, they would still not be oppressed. Oppressed peoples always try to escape their oppressor, such as the Tibetans in China, Jews in 1930s Germany, and Armenians in Turkey during WW1. Hardly an women are fleeing from those countries, and there are just as many men fleeing those countries than women.
Have you ever noticed how many women who immigrate to the West often advocate for paleo-gender-roles? Even that Pakistani girl (I forget her name, Shadeii or something?) often creates MyTakes against feminism.
And no if you knew anything about the Jews situation then you would know that it got to a certain point where the Germans wouldn’t let them leave. I am positive many women there want to leave but can’t. You can not tell them they are contempt with their oppressed role that is stupid.
No girls hate guys for no reason. And no tons of European girls dislike European guys, which is why a lot move. Either way idc, anyone with a vag is a female.
Some yes. I was talking for the most part. I might be wrong, but even on this site, the vibe that I get from American girls is pure hostility to us for whatever reason.
The damage that American women have done by trying to promote gender as a social construct, the consequences that many children have had to live with because of that and they refuse to accept any responsibility for initiating and promoting that concept and the damage that came with it. They are absolutely evil and they have legislation to murder new born babies after they are born.
They have no concept of good and evil the world is their right because they were once oppressed. They are scum I have to tell you.
Those guys are just butt hurt normies that don't know what is actually going on or why women are acting like they are.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I'd fight for men's rights, but it's only a matter of time before bs feminists make it a "hate crime" to assume that men should have any rights so I'm just getting prepared to survive in that world.
@HereIbe or a realist, if you'd like to label me. Get ready bro. It's only a matter of time before all men are chained up in dungeons and never see the light of day with female programed robots sent down a couple times a month to collect our "seed" to be used for all breeding purposes. :P
Because the so-called "men's rights movement" isn't about rights. It's about losers and incels whining about how abused and persecuted they are when they really just need to MAN THE FUCK UP and stop being such whiny crybabies.
3
1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
There's plenty of rights we need like the paternity rights against fraud, DNA testing, fair alimony judgements, repealing of the Bradley amendment, rights against being forced to fight, false rape accusations and proper compensation, inhumane chemical castration laws even if they are rapists nobody has any rights to torture us, etc.
Then who is going to care about you when you're a paternity fraud victim, falsely accused of rape, die or penectomised in some circumcision ritual. How are you going to man up when you lose your penis or become a cuckold by law.
We can still have those rights without needing a group organization. Usually group orginizations are just created by people as a way to get money from others. Even feminsm they accept donations from people.
Through the supreme court system. There is no group for having a law against cyberbullying for kids under 18 and now most states made cyberbullying illegal. If anything most things in order to become federal or state laws have to have a lot of supporters and you could do that without a organization.
Most men don't care enough to do anything about it.
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Many men do care and have made progress. The men's rights movement has changed laws in Australia, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina that discriminate against men, the NCFM has got a court order declaring the draft to unconstitutional, CAFE the in Canada has raised 200k to build the countries first shelter for male victims of domestic violence.
Because men are used to hard work, and are actually capable of achieving their goals, regardless of how much the society hates them and oppresses them.
Fine then a woman accuses you of default paternity and you are forced to be an economic slave for 18-25 years, you sure you wouldn't want mandatory paternity testing laws like the one the state of Georgia to protect you.
Many men have the right to have they're penises cut off in South Africa, Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria and get mocked and beaten up for complaining about it every year in the name of circumcision and the World health organisation openly promotes this harmful cultural practice.
Would you like this right to become yours as you don't seem to have a problem?
I don't live in SA, Uganda, or Kenya. Sorry dood. My penis is just fine... and I'm nearly 62. You kids whine too fukkin much. Just go out there and be awesome, be a REAL MAN and you won't have to worry about your 'rights'. You'll be too busy making your life happen.
These men movements are a bunch of losers whining about women having rights
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2 Reply
Asker
+1 y
No your the loser who doesn't give a damn about injustice when it's happening to men. Your just a misandrist with an agenda to fuck and live happily.
And NO! It's women who keep whining about men having rights , how many women complained about not signing up for the draft when they demanded the right to vote?
Because there are a lot of dumb women hating creeps in that community.
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1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
So what there are plenty of radical feminists, lesbian seperatists who genuinely want us to go extinct and yet the few haters who complain about real issues are reason for you to absolve your conscience of everything that happens to men and boys in the world? Even so how is mere hate comparable to a desire to make the entire male gender go extinct.
The men's rights movement has changed laws in Australia, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina that discriminate against men, the NCFM has got a court order declaring the draft to unconstitutional, CAFE the in Canada has raised 200k to build the countries first shelter for male victims of domestic violence.
But still we need an international men's rights movement to stop legislation that promotes paternity fraud, male genital mutilation.
We had that before too yet men stiill thrived and freed other men from slavery. The men's rights movement in Australia successfully made the government pass laws that freed men of child support obligations when the child is found not to be their biological children. The men on the entire continent are now free by some lengths from being forced into economic slavery for 18-25 years.
The state of Georgia even has mandatory paternity testing before child support can be ordered as of 2015. All thanks to a man named carnell smith.
So don't tell me that Men's rights activists only sit around and complain about feminism. But there are still issues that really require a international men's rights movement with good influence stop things like male genital mutilation and ban on men's reproductive rights like France and Germany, UK have done. The french civil code of 1801 explicitly prevented men from being forced into fatherhood by women who could claim anyone as the father, the law in France at present punishes men for trying to find out if the child they are raising is actually theirs. We need a international men's movement to a address these issues and protect our reproductive rights.
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