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Do you think that child support should be abolished? (Page 2)
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I shouldn't be abolished, but there should be a way to prove that it is spent only on the child. Like the payer providing copies of receipts to the principle guardian every month.
I don’t know about that. But if I was you guys... before I paid a penny I would demand DNA tests.
Except where it is illegal (in france, for example)
Abolished? No. The child should still have the best possible upbringing even if the parents separate.
Should it be overhauled? Yes, absolutely.
I think that child support guidelines should be more flexible from month to month. Quite often there would be slow months for which I couldn't pay, and months where I could pay much more. I would suffer penalties, which made my son go without support for longer than intended.
Of course but the system needs an overhaul. Maybe a cashless card system that only allows the mother to spend the money on food, clothing etc.
Yes! This is an interesting idea I was thinking about myself as I was scrolling down through this. It addresses the concern about perceived misuse, but also requires a new system to be put in place. Not sure how practical it is, but definitely a good idea.
@xHeyUx How about the receiving part must provide evidence like receipts with clear statements what has been bought so a court can overlook it?
@roland77 I appreciate where this is coming from, but from my perspective courts don’t want to worry themselves with those details (too much time). To some extent, I like the notion of a credit card like system that would restrict how support is used. However, I have a feeling that would even have challenges as other similar systems used for other aid have encountered. I have a good friend who lives in a small apartment and sees his kids seldom (though wants to see them much more) while the spouse makes a great deal of unreported I come (in cash from a legal business), got the house and receives much of my friend’s income as well. While my friend wishes it was different, they recognize they are still a parent and focus 95% of their effort on doing that despite the challenges their former spouse creates (even still after several divorced years). I’ve got to say, while I see him struggle, he has my respect.
do what you like in america but it wouldn't wash here in the uk where its clearly more for the good of the children rather than the adults
No... You had the kids, you should support the kids. There should be harsher penalties for not paying.
Fuck that. Let's keep supporting men having no rights with kids. 🖕
You had a choice... A condom... Take some responsibility for your actions.
She can take out sperm and impregnate herself with it.
Well, there is another choice... You messin with some skanky ass girls.
@roland77, I don’t think you know how sperm works. Sperm can’t live outside the body. It does within less than a minute outside the body. If you finished inside her, it’ll live for a few days. But you’re saying, if a girl took sperm out of the condom, that doesn’t work. It’s dead. And even if she had the time to do it in under a minute, I’m pretty sure the guy would notice. Lol. Not to mention it’s almost impossible to do it in less than a minute. You’d have to find a way to inject it inside you, etc. all in front of the person you just had sex with.
Also, that’s why YOU throw away the condom, genius. You take it off, and go throw it in the restroom. By the time it hits the trash, the sperm is dead. Another thing, almost every condom produced has spermicide in it. It automatically kills the sperm once it touches the condom. Soo, are you naturally this stupid or?
@Angie221994 Er, sperm can indeed live a little time outside the body. She must be quick in doing that, still invisible holes can let it out and enter the pussy without any barrier. Sure, only hyper-theoretical. :-)
As a chemist, no. It can’t. It only lives less than a minute. And like I said, condoms already have spermicide on the inside of the condom. So the sperm is killed the second it hits the condom. I used to work for a condom manufacturer as well. Lol. I know what’s in them. You would do if you did any reading. Thats what labels are for.
@Angie221994 Ah, okay. Sorry for me not knowing this fact. I grabbed it from here and didn't validate it. My bad. I did not know that there is some chemicals inside the condom (I use Ritex or Durex, London or some other named products, not the always-breaking cheap ones).
If the one who has to pay the obligations, has a lot money left? Yes. Is low on money? No, maybe not. It should be considered how much your income is and not just 1/2 of it no matter what. And people can be abusive, see my long comment on @AshleyMadison00 opinion.
No. However, some people shouldn't need to pay. I remember when my parents were separated my dad supported the family, however he still had to pay child support.
yes because 90% of parents never use it for kids , and they never do anything to help the house hold. there just money hungry.
No because some people want to have a child and just aren't financially secure but it may be their only moment in life to do so. Also they may be a single parent with no other family to rely on
Abolish it for what reason? Let's hear some details.
Gladly. It blindly assumes that women are better parents than men. It gives the notion that women are incapable of supporting themselves financially. They rarely factor in a man's ability to afford the payments. It's a completely outdated system that has failed to keep up with the times. How's that for starters? I can keep going.
Absolutely not!
But what needs to be done, is an audit on what these child support monies are being spent on.
No, but certainly revamped. Possibly a controlled trust fund rather than a direct payment as a start.
Nope its needed we have babies and men get to have a choice
What choice. From what I see women choose to be parents by getting an abortion or not, while men get stuck with no say in it.
@nathanp97 pretty much
@nathanp97 Do you all males here know that you can use sensitive condoms or flush the pussy? You can also buy condoms with nobs on it which stimulates the vaginal entrance a lot and gives her some nice orgasm (if she likes it) and it reflects back at your stimulation.
Do you not know that no birth control is 100% effective even when used right, and that some women break condoms or low about being on the pill to trap a man
@nathanp97 Then use only your own condom, she cannot break it then. And if it breaks inside, you can immediately feel it (it feels much more intense without a condom).
Generally said, both sides, male/female can be abusive, very true. I know an African who was just used for sex only and after she got pregnant from him, he doesn't care about the child, he even didn't came to hospital for birth-giving (I don't want to miss that part at all). She was heartbroken a lot and has difficulties in trusting males again (understandable from an emotional point of view). To make it short, he is a jerk and those come away to easily and the woman has to do all to keep the child and herself alive. This is NEVER good for the child's psyche. The child needs to have a father and a mother around.
So, about the jerk? Let him pay.
Let her get an abortion sounds more accurate. Why would you want a father to be involved in a kids life if he doesn't want or care for it? Why should he have to pay because the women chose to have an abortion? Women have freedom of choice, but that doesn't mean they can take away a man's choice not to be a father or responsible for a kid they don't want.
Condoms Arsene 100% effective, and some women can poke a hole in it ahead of time and you may not notice, or they can use it after if you through it in the garbage. They have opinions.
And the women is the jerk for trying to force him into fatherhood.
@nathanp97 I could understand the woman's feelings for her unborn child in her uterus, for sure. He impregnated her, it was his sperm, not someone else'. He would have a choice by making lesser love without perception (e. g. strong condom). He used her for sex-only things. Of course that (sex-only) is no reason to "punish" him with forced payments, but sure that his DNA can be found in the child's DNA, provable beyond doubts.
It was also my choice to make love to my now-ex wife and I asked her to leave the sperm inside her pussy and not flush it out (her PH value has always recovered from it). So surely I had a choice there.
@roland77 how do you flush it out? You mean have her push it out?
Am I suppose to bring the garden hose into the bedroom?
I would abolish it in favor of default 50/50 shared custody.. Most women won't like that though because they feel like the children is their property..
I think 50/50 joint custody in which neither parent pays the other should be the norm.
No. It's not the childs fault that relationships dont work. Why should they suffer?
I go with that, for the child's psyche it is already a bad thing to have the real father not around. My daughter is in that position (yes, I'm a male, she is a female, daughters are naturally more bond to the father, not the mother because of hetero gender).
Still there are some cases of abuse, like making holes into condoms, opening them to impregnate the woman's own pussy with it or using the money for fun and not for the child. Here in Germany we have a "Duesseldorfer Tabelle" (search for it!) which says how much you have to pay with what income.
Still I would like to see the other "step-father's" income being calculated in as I have almost no money and I'm requested to find ANY full-time job, no matter what. And the "step-father" is much richer than me.
I comlletely agree that the current system dosne't work in so many places (i'm in UK). But it needs an overhaul, not scrapping. Leaving kids without money for basics would only put more strain on the state. It's not everyone else's responsibility to pay to bring up other peoples kids.
Thankfully right now i'm with my baby momma
Unless men have a say in birth, then yes. Wr should able to opt out. Otherwise we have no reproductive rights. If we have to rights, i choose not to participate.
Opt out? How about use a rubber if you don't want a child?
@spartan55. Women poke holes in condoms or steal sperm from them. www.thesun.co.uk/.../
Google for more examples.
Give me a break with that shit. That's a total cop out.
@spartan55 how so? This guy didn’t even have sex. nationalpost.com/.../child-support-case-involving-sperm-donor-is-a-canadian-first-that-could-be-decided-by-a-new-ontario-law
You make it seem as if this happens frequently. Too many conspiracy forums for you apparently.
@spartan55 dude ill google as long as you want. How many articles you want? Or just white knighting here?
White knighting who? Nice try, you're reachin man.
So in your world men bear no responsibility for impregnating a woman?
@spartan55 didn't say that. I said if men have no reproductive rights. Which we do not, then men should be able to opt out or have rights. Not just be a meal ticket. If a woman can turn the baby into a milkshake, then we should not have to pay if they choose to keep it and give up visitation etc.
A meal ticket? Please.
So if a guy doesn't use a rubber and blows it in her is he responsible?
@spartan55 www.google.com
@spartan55 they both are. Takes two to tango.
Sure does, we aren't debating that.
@spartan55 then you agree with me. Women can choose to turn baby to milkshake or keep baby and put male on the hook for child support. He has no choice, therefore has no reproductive rights.
Okay, you know it is possible for the man to get support paid to him too, right?
@spartan55 have you ever actually worn a condom? They fucking suck.
Of course I have... I was using them before you were born.
Had a vasectomy 14 years ago, so condoms aren't my problem now.
@spartan55 im aware. Im also aware there were free black men during slavery in the USA. Didn’t give them the rights whites had. Because they were not equal. Does 85% and paying more look like rights? Looks like that free black man to me. Being forced to work without compensation is slavery. dadsdivorce.com/.../
@spartan55 are you saying that as long as 1 in 100, because you have a vasectomy you would have reproductive rights in family court?
A common recommendation is to have semen analysis performed three months after vasectomy or after 20 ejaculations and to avoid intercourse or use another birth control method until no sperm has been documented. Researchers estimated that around one in 100 vasectomies would fail within one to five years of surgery. May 5, 2004
www.webmd.com/.../vasectomies-pregnancy-prevention
Mine has never failed once, with PLENTY of field testing.
How about u provide the condom, don't expect the women to provide. Can't poke a hole in a condom that's been in the man's possession. Also you assume women want to be tied down with some random's baby for her whole life while the dude gets off free (if he wanted to) It's about taking responsibility. It another thought, abstain from sex altogether. Abstinance is pretty reliable birth control. If you're an adult and decide to have sex, than you need to be adult enough to live with the consequences of such decisions
@bella4eva
His whole opinion on this topic was so full of holes... 😂 😂 😂
@bella4eva how about the laws give men some reproductive rights. Until then, i agree, men should choose not to participate.
Absolutely not. You play? You pay. And lucky you. If she were involved in a "gang bang" and your semen "took", you pay.
I’d agree to this so long as I have a right to approve who can have sex
I would use consenting, not approving.
No, children need paying for otherwise the cost goes to the taxpayer.
Only if men's right to leave a relationship is abolished.
No. If you father a child you owe them at least financial support. At the VERY least.
Don't stick your dick in BSC.
What is BSC?
@roland77 BSC = bat shit crazy
Leave it. Id rather care for my kid without raising him or her than to not care.
If that were the case, how do you propose the childrens welfare be taken care of?
I wish people didn't have to be forced by law to support their kids. That's something I believe you should do willingly. I think it should be abolished but not by pen and paper, it should be abolished by the life choices we make.
Not if the child can get it's own debit card. Plenty of kids are being used as moneybags.
No dude, othetwise those deadbeat dad are gonna get away... also more guy will have unprotected sex as there is one less repercussion
It shouldn't be abolished. Maybe have records of what you use the money on and have to turn in every month just to see where the money is going to.
No. It should just be strongly monitored. To make sure the child support goes to the child, and the child ONLY. Nothing should be for the parent.
Hell no, you had a part to play in that child being born to own up to it and take responsibility.
You're a child. This is an adult discussion. Get lost
You should be ashamed coz obviously the child is more thinking straight than you do.
@Primrose21 well at least I can type a coherent sentence. 🤣
So basically women aren't owning up if they get an abortion?
DING>DING>DING!! Congratulations! You have asked the dumbest question of the year. A certificate suitable for framing will be sent out shortly. Congrats again, your parents should be very proud.
No, but you just revealed how stupid you are. 👍
You sound like a single mother living off your ex.
In which case , proving why it should be abolished
@grega239 nope but I am a financial planner who knows having children and raising children costs money.
You don't have to be a financial planner to know that.
Having kids has always come at a cost for any species that reproduces
No fucking shit raising kids cost money. 🤦♂️ That's not the point.
wrong dumb fuck. Two people make a baby 2 people pay to raise a baby. Many many men don’t seem to get their obligation to the matter so child support is necessary and protects the children. That IS the point.
I never once said that men shouldn't be financially supportive. I was saying that approach about is all wrong, and it is very often abused you stupid bitch.
Please don't speak of men's obligations, when women basically have none.
2. a lot of women abuse child support.
Where exactly did you say anything along the lines of “ I was saying that approach about is all wrong, and it is very often abused “ where fucking inbreed?
@grega239 yep. They have None. They're not required to have the kids, but we're required to support them financially. And they legitimately believe being a man is easier. Women are so fucking stupid it's ridiculous.
HAHA! I sure seems like a dumb question. I'm not sure why these guys are railing on you so hard. Maybe they forgot to wear a condom at one point?
Women have more contraceptive methods at their disposal.
Maybe they should use them aswell instead of getting pregnant and leech off the father
@grega239 If a man doesn't want to have a baby and face the financial responsibilities of such, he should use a condom. The quantity of BC choices for a woman is largely irrelevant.
1 problem. Women don't seem to like condoms because it reduces friction
2. Why is it that only men have to be responsible when it comes to sex.
3. If women are old enough to have sex, they're old enough to take preventive measures to not get pregnant wether or not the guy has a condom.
4. What if the condom breaks? Is that a valid excuse to use in court to not be forced to pay child support?
@grega239 I understand what you are saying but lets look at this logically
1 problem. Women don't seem to like condoms because it reduces friction --- For a guy not interested in babies, her views on condoms is irrelevant
2. Why is it that only men have to be responsible when it comes to sex. -- Both the man and woman need to independently responsible. If she isn't there is nothing stopping you from being prudent
3. If women are old enough to have sex, they're old enough to take preventive measures to not get pregnant wether or not the guy has a condom. -- If a MAN is old enough to have sex, they're old enough to take measures to not get the girl pregnant, whether or not the girl is on BC
4. What if the condom breaks? Is that a valid excuse to use in court to not be forced to pay child support? -- Choosing the correct size and putting the condom on correctly plays a big role in whether or not it will break, see here for the details. www.nbcnews.com/.../condom-use-101-basic-errors-are-so-common-study-finds-f207925
in fact they have a 98% success rate when used properly.
The bottom line is there are consequences to all our actions, we often do not get to choose what those consequences are but we CAN choose our actions.
@MyExperience Thank YOU!! and congrats for adding common sense to the conversation
So if no condom is available the guy shouldn't have sex.
That means if a woman doesn't have any BC for herself or a reserve condom for the guy , sex shouldn't be happening.
That's optimistic of you.
Women are the ones who have the final say if a man gets to have sex, which means they have greater responsibility to not get pregnant.
@grega239 if a man doesn’t believe in paying child support doesn’t that mean he has a greater responsibility to himself to wear protection?
She’s not your mother, she’s your sex partner and in having sex, YOU have a responsibility to protect yourself... or don’t have sex.
Again , can a man get off of paying child support if the condom broke and the woman had no BC herself? Do you see my point here
@grega239 I see your point but you don’t seem to see mine. Or those of @MyExperience. children cost money. If you don’t want children and don’t want to have to pay for unwanted pregnancy/ children. You have two logical choices. Don’t have sex or protect yourself. Why are you not seeing these logical common sense points?
No, but definitely regulated and the recipient audited and required to provide records of expenses.
Uh... I am not an idiot, so... no, I don't think that.
No, it should be started from the babies birth, so even if they are divorced, child should not be regretted by their birth.
Yes and no maybe it really depends on the situation
I do, it's a BS double standard. If woman can get out of the responsibility of taking care a child through abortion, than a guy shouldn't be forced into the responsibility of taking care of a child.
No. there's ways around it. Like I dont pay a penny
No. It should be strengthened for every child so no one ever feels like an orphan even despite of being one.
No its definitely necessary I just think they need to even the playing field
no. but both parents should contribute. not just man, women that way take all money after divorce
No but it should be changed
YES. Women can literally sign any man's name on the paper making a man pay for a child that is not his because they forgot who they had sex with.
DNA test 😉
@crazy8000 Exactly, but with one exception: She made a hole into the condom or took out the sperm from it to impregnate herself.
@crazy8000 sure but I'm sure most men rarely think about DNA test until the last minute, which could be 10-15 years down the road. They'll outright believe that the child is automatically theirs without knowing that their girlfriend have been sleeping around.
@crazy8000 Today I learned that condoms have a chemical inside that kills sperms?
Had.
You have to check each model you use since it's not common anymore.
Was common in 80's and 90's. especially there I live. they even teached it in school.
Not abolished but lower the support amount of money. Father pays too much money.
How do fathers pay too much money? My dad paid $50 a month in child support on me. That doesn’t even feed me for a week. Lol. He also made a lot of money, he was a lawyer.
@Angie221994 I guess it varies from country to country. Here in #NRW / #Germany we have a "Duesseldorfer Tabelle" (search for it).
Definitely as it comes as a benefit to women but should be changed to where women should also have to pay for child support 😉 equality
So you want women to pay child support when they have primary custody? Why would they pay if the dad only sees the child once a week? That doesn’t even make sense. It’d only make sense if the dad had primary custody.
No. Some parents absolutely just refuse to help out financially the single parent and child so they must be forced by law.
If I'm no longer in hers or the child's life, why should I give them my money?
You should be obligated to take care of your child, who do expect to take of it, the state?
@yep12345678 If that's your attitude then I hope you either never get a divorce or kids - you have no idea what kind of long term damage a missing parent can do...
Hey, can't you put child support on your taxes
No, not in the US. Child support is not tax deductible to the payer and is non taxed income (well, the taxes is covered by the payer) to the recipient.
@xHeyUx oh god... that's awful.
@xHeyUx child support needs to be reformed, not completely taken away.
The Child Tax Credit offers up to $2,000 per qualifying dependent child 16 or younger at the end of the calendar year.
This is a tax credit, which means it reduces your tax bill on a dollar-for-dollar basis
@SarahsSummer but only one parent can clame it.. Typically it's not the one that has to pay child support... Source, my wife who is a certified public accountant..
@worldscolide that's awful.
It is.. The system at very best needs reform.. Right now it's so damn lopsided.. Men can go to jail for not paying, lose their license. It's bad.. The same cannot be said for women.. If a woman owes support she rarely if ever faces consequences for not paying, additionally visitation is never enforced.. If there is a shared parenting plan in place the mother never has to follow it because there is never any consequences.. 90% of custody cases the mother uses the child as a weapon against the father..
@worldscolide please dont infuse your opinon and make the appearance of fact. 90% of custody cases the mother is NOT using the child as a weapon against the father..
@SarahsSummer prove me wrong.. Men commit suicide regularly and in most cases its because they are denied access to their family and forced to live in destitution because of it.. Until you're a father that has gone through the system you have no room what so ever period to talk..
Now sit down child..
@worldscolide Ahh, bitter idiot syndrome. I wish you well.
No.. @SarahsSummer I have the I lost my brother to suicide syndrome because an ex of his lied about him, cost him his home, his kids, his vehicles, his jobs, so he committed suicide.. Now back the fuck off feminist..
@SarahsSummer you have done nothing and said nothing to prove me wrong.. And it's because you can't.. You're likely one of those mothers that uses her children as a weapon because you hate your ex more than you love your children...
@SarahsSummer it would be interesting to have statistics, though we are mostly here to ask others opinions. @worldscolide shared his personal story. Thank you for doing that. I only shared part of my friend’s story. His wife accused him of awful things which prevented him from seeing his kids, until eventually supervised visits were allowed until eventually he takes care of them when it is inconvenient for his ex (non supervised). There was never any penalty for false accusations for her, though it cost him more than all he had (think “debt”) to get to see his children again. I have a family member who was told, during the pre trial settlement process that they would only discuss assets and if his soon to be ex found the the agreement to be satisfactory for her then they could discuss custody, otherwise they would battle it out in court. He wanted time with his kids and knew they would spend college money fighting in court so he caved and “bought custody” with his kids. He changed diapers and did midnight / early morning bottle feedings when they were babies and cooked dinners, and took them to school events, worked with them on homework - all the stuff a good parent does before the divorce. I witnessed ALL of the above - I was in the room at the time. It’s anecdotal. But it has me in violent agreement with @worldscolide. There is something rotten with the current system. ... oh, by the way, he too was also close to suicide. We spent a lot of time keeping tabs on him and helping him. Please be respectful of others opinions
@xHeyUx its no use.. It comes out of the mouth of someone that owns a penis so to her its automatically invalid. Sad for her. she's too stupid to realize men are human, and we have feelings too.
No, some people really need the help
Nope, but it should be periodically reviewed
Only for sperm donors and a sperm thief victim.
Um. No!
Absolutely. It is not a meaningful thing.
Are you kidding?
Plenty of people abuse the system, especially women.
Nope
Nope.
Nope
Nope
No...
No it shouldn't
No. Now welfare..
Na..
A Deadbeat just disliked my comment.
Being a dead beat and being opposed to an outdated system that doesn't work and gets constantly abused aren't the same. If you had an IQ higher than 60, you'd understand that.
Most of the time it's not abused while unfortunately other times it is but yes there should be some tweaks to make said system better but other then that parents should help with the children.