A Policeman accidentally kills an innocent 14 year-old. Will he be held accountable?

[RolandCuthbert]

A 14-year-old girl needlessly died as "collateral damage" in a police shooting last week and drew her last breath in the arms of her grieving mother, the family and their lawyers said Tuesday. Heartbroken loved ones of Valentina Orellana-Peralta, who was killed Thursday in a dressing room at a Burlington store in the North Hollywood neighborhood of Los Angeles, said they demanded police accountability for the fatal shooting — but stopped short of exact demands.

I am just saying. If a regular citizen with a permit fired his weapon to take down this suspect. . . but unwittingly hit an innocent bystander, would he be punished?

Yes

No

[BCA6010]

In regards to your bottom line question, it would depend on the state it happened in and the exact circumstances of the "accident," but it's very likely they would be charged with, and quite likely found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. The typical punishment for that is relatively minor with a couple years in prison, as opposed to 20 to life for murder.

With police, it's basically the same, with some changes. It's almost a certainty that the cop would lose their badge and be kicked off the force as a start, unless an investigation found that the department was issuing ammo unsuitable for the job that overpenetrates surfaces, or something else that could be attributed to a failure at an administrative or instructional level. Basically, a cop has that fallback IF they can prove within reason that they did as they were trained with the tools they were issued. There's also the political factor however... It's VERY common practice for self-proclaimed social justice grifters to take up a case for something like this, escalate it into something way beyond what it actually is, making it almost impossible to come up with a guilty verdict. Said lawyer takes in the money, knowing full well that nothing will happen now, runs with it after losing the case while also declaring themselves to be fighting against a rigged system. I could easily see that happening here, because it would fit California's anti-law enforcement political rhetoric and likewise on the national level without actually depriving themselves of a police officer when they are badly understaffed, which unfortunately, would be considered a factor even in the face of negligence.

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't understand your post. I don't think you understand how criminal prosecutions proceed. There is an investigation underway by the police department.

What that have to do with your axe to grind against SJW lawyers?

The only thing a lawyer can do is bring a civil suit.

[Still-alive]

he better be. holy shit that was fucked up.

[Still-alive]

surprised to see that embrace the lame dude not here defending his buddy pig cops over this

[zagor]

Is that last post just random words strung together?

[Still-alive]

@zagor nope. What you a fan of embrace the lame? he's a loser on here who loves cops

[zagor]

Oh, OK I didn't realize that was a user name.

[sage2021]

He's goin' down!! He fired the bullet in a fricken department store with people everywhere inside. Still, he didn't need to fire his gun at all at the perpetrator, he had other means of arresting the guy. Why couldn't he taser the guys leg? They were that close to him where they could have done that. I don't know what that cop had in his mind when he fired his gun, but it better be good when he has to go on trial for this crime. Have cops just lost their fricken minds because that cop was an idiot and a bad shot!

[JohnK123]

Tasers don’t always work so that would risk his life if he got that close

[zagor]

Not going to happen. The suspect had a weapon. The girl was on the other side of a wall so no way to tell she was there. Tragic, but sometimes shit happens without "someone taking accountability".

[JohnK123]

@zagor amen 🙏
It was a stray bullet nothing could have been prevented

[RolandCuthbert]

@JohnK123 How is he risking his life? The perp had a gun? He fired at a retreating individual seemingly not understanding there were innocents in the store.

[RolandCuthbert]

@JohnK123 So if you fired a bullet from your gun that struck a person accidentally, you would expect to not face any jail time?

[AndrésC64]

@zagor exactly.

[RolandCuthbert]

@AndrésC64 Well, uhm our society does not work that way.

l would advise you to read any newspaper.

www.nbc12.com/.../

The Dinwiddie County Sheriff said Matthew Sharpf, 37, was arrested and charged with voluntary manslaughter shortly after he was questioned by authorities. His arrest warrant was filed at the county courthouse the day after the shooting, but more than a month later, that charge set aside during a preliminary hearing.

[JohnK123]

@RolandCuthbert if he went up to him with a taser that would risk his life if it didn’t work on the guy

[AndrésC64]

@zagor exactly. Shit happens. It's unfortunate but true.

[AndrésC64]

Entirely different case.

[RolandCuthbert]

@JohnK123 Same thing could be said for a gun. What if he misses? What if two or three rounds don't put him down.

But all of this is neither here nor there.

Until citizens can get off accidentally shooting innocent bystanders, we have nothing to talk about.

[JohnK123]

I’m pretty sure a gun wound would hurt more and would prob make the individual not get up or in pain etc
A taser is harder to have a successful try

[Roguehoneylife]

We can only hope. The system is corrupt.

[bgreek]

So it's alright for cops to get away with killing innocent people
The cops are not above the law
Why bother having a jury?
Does the officer even have a defense?
If not, toss him in jail in General Population

[Roguehoneylife]

@bgreek I literally said we can hope he gets in trouble. It’s not okay? The fuck. That’s why I said the system is corrupt.

[lightbulb27]

I don't know, that depends on society and laws, not me, I'm not the judge or jury and didn't write a single law. If I was in charge...

a) If someone legit kills ME by mistake, I'll forgive them with my last breaths (assuming I can discern that) and let it be. If they are doing their job and trying to do right, and it just goes wrong, that's life. That to me is Godly and it's life. That's one thing... that's the Mrs. Kim Potter's scenario to me... mistake, f'd up. I'd examine her for hormonal issues, check her brain, take her off the line. That's the people who jacked up the Boeing airplane and killed 600 people, screw ups.. not police, but many times worse.. why aren't those Q/A testers from India and product manager/Execs in prison for all that death? I'd say lose job, do another job, community service.

b) Being a dumb ass or criminal is something else. That's bad intent, evil, uneccesarry and irresponsible stupidity... see my laws are written differently if I'm in charge. That's D. Chauvin's famous 7 minute failure... emotional stupidity, disregard for life. They should be beaten at minimum, possibly jailed for a while and never allowed to have a gun again. Lost their rights. the beating should be public until crying apology, then loved by professional empathizers and rehabbed for the rest of their productive life. after all... I'm dead... fair is fair.. remember... I was killed. Don't ask me to define dumbass, that's a judgement.

If it's my 14 yr old daughter or someone elses repeat, should receive homage/$ to family on behalf of society, amends, apologies.

followed by forgiveness, love, outpouring. That be Christian... kinda.

that's so much more healthy to me. putting people in jail who aren't really a hazard, just F up... stupid. can't think of a bigger waste of money, time, life. just stupidity to make people feel good, achieves nothing and makes a bigger mess elsewhere.
I haven't watched the video.

[RolandCuthbert]

"a) If someone legit kills ME by mistake, I'll forgive them with my last breaths (assuming I can discern that) and let it be. If they are doing their job and trying to do right, and it just goes wrong, that's life. That to me is Godly and it's life. That's one thing... that's the Mrs. Kim Potter's scenario to me... mistake, f'd up. I'd examine her for hormonal issues, check her brain, take her off the line. That's the people who jacked up the Boeing airplane and killed 600 people, screw ups.. not police, but many times worse.. why aren't those Q/A testers from India and product manager/Execs in prison for all that death? I'd say lose job, do another job, community service. "

So are you trying to have a religious conversation, @lightbulb27?

Do you want to have that conversation here and now?

[lightbulb27]

not in text, don't see the point. this mechanism is no good at resolving any differences of viewpoint. im stating how I'd feel about it and hope to handle. our society though, doesn't work as described. I have seen it demonstrated... by people with greater depths than I, which is where from I'm inspired to achieve if I'm so fortunate.

[RolandCuthbert]

Did you read what you said?

You said to forgive someone who kills accidentally in the performance of their job is "Godly".

And this has happened again and again when speaking to you. It is as if you look to find some unassailable authority that cannot be argued with, to prove your point. Rather than just arguing something on the merits.

Because I would argue that Christ makes a different statement in the Bible. He doesn't seem concerned with why someone has murdered or killed. Only that they be forgiven. Because I would remind you, He has said it is hard to come to Him seeking forgiveness when you cannot forgive others who have trespassed against you.

It is written;

“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly
Father will also forgive you. But if you don’t forgive men their
trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

[lightbulb27]

What I was saying is it is Godly to forgive them for making a bad decision, or gracious in that scenario. Even moreso when it is my life lost. I'm saying it's better to forgive. their actions to kill is not Godly, I would think if they had a heart, they'd have remorse. if they were Godly, they'd die protecting the other. But I can't project my value onto them. God being love, has concern for the other.

[RolandCuthbert]

And what I am saying is you are misrepresenting the Word. You are doing what so many do in politics. You can have faith and be a Christian. But to try to bend the Word to your political ambitions is wrong. Jesus says we must all forgive the sins committed by others against us. And to do that is Godly. Because the Lord has forgiven us.

Chapter and verse.

Luke 6:37

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.”

He makes no exceptions for accidental killings, outright murder, manslaughter, vehicular homicide. . .

It seems as if you project your own moral standards into this situation. As if some sense are worse than others. And if you know the Word, you know what the Lord thinks of our moral standards.

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

[AviatorTom]

I'm surprised that police would fire their guns at all in a department store, where they should know that there are individuals other than the suspect they're chasing and that hitting innocent bystanders is a real possibility.

But they did fire, and an innocent girl is dead. The policeman who fired the gun that caused her death should be held responsible and charged with manslaughter.

This entire incident needs to be looked at with respect to how police training might need changing on how to deal with situations in department stores.

[Wester1967]

Cop is such a BS job. First you get to lie all day and night with zero consequence. Then you can literally act out your anger issues and murder people and the DA won't touch you. 20% of all cops will at some point in their career, receive charges against them for doing dirt. Even though the DA won't go near most of it. That means that at any given time you are being policed by literal criminals. FnA bro. It's disgusting and sick. And these bootlickers can't shut up about how degenerate thugs are perfect and can do no wrong. Totally effed up society bro. Living in an absolute trash heap with bad TV.

[bolverk]

If the shot was fired by a civilian who lawfully held a firearm and a Concealed Carry Permit the they would be facing a involuntary manslaughter charge at the MINIMUM, and so will the police officer if it come to be found that it was his round that killed the youngster, mind you the officer is probably tearing himself apart over this even if his round that killed the youngster, police officers are human beings like everyone else,

After watching the video it is clear that the shooting of Valentina Orellana-Peralta was unintentional and what the officers on scene could not have known the wall behind the suspect was not solid but a screening wall for the changing area.

The disposition of this case will be down to the California Department of Justice’s Special Prosecution Section within the Criminal Law Division, which conducts independent reviews

[RolandCuthbert]

I am certain the officer feels bad. Just like you or I would feel bad if we accidentally killed someone while taking down a criminal who has been attacking bystanders. But we still would be facing jail time.

That's the only point, I am making. There can't be different rules for different classes of citizenry.

[bolverk]

And the officer will probably face the same jail time or longer as the judicial system in California will offer him up as a sacrifice because that is what politicians do they do not care about any officer or member of the public, just so long as they are seen to be doing the 'right thing'.

[ItsOnlyMe70]

REALLY. The Cop, came upon the suspect beating a customer with a bike lock and cable and to save that person he shot him, and a stray bullet went into the wall and hit the kill, tell me where did the cop shot the girl on purpose? He didn't it was an accident; he didn't even know she was behind the wall. And people and people on this post want him lock up, SMH Rev Al Sharpton the racist POS scum bag worthless human being is leading the charge to have him lock up. If this cop is put on trial and convict and sent to jail all the people that are pro-cops better take to the streets and burn this whole dam country down. I might add it mostly the white cops they want charged and lock away this cop is black. You dam skinny jean, man bun wearing cry that the system is corrupt. or it racist but won't point out what parts that are You all cry lock the cop but you all the first to cry and call the cops and beg for their help

[RolandCuthbert]

I appreciate your ability to not think rationally, but here is a basic fact for you.

If you or I went out and shot/killed someone accidentally, we would be in jail. You can't have different rules for cops than you do for regular citizens.

And you can stuff that raciology nonsense in the garbage. I know of no one who only wants the "White" cops charged. The dude who pulled the trigger needs to face the same standard of justice any other citizen would face. The other cops were actually telling him to "slow down".

[NathanDavis]

coincidently... I just washed '137 shots' on Netflix, my guess is that it will be the same...

it's always politics, and police unions involved and that is how they handle it, it is never about justice but their own interests first, and also last... never about the victims

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

How about we let the court of law not the court of opinion try the case first since none of us have any and all facts not just hearsay and who saw what was done and who did not see what was done some people will lie just to convict someone anyone of anything just to get a conviction they think is the right one to fit what they think is right. Not what is right just what they think is right.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yawn. . . how about being consistent and stop being disingenuous. You ain't fooling anyone.

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

Yeah that sounds like you a real commie you would not even know the truth if it bit you in the ass. nether you or I are there but YOU know everything to be known right out of the COMMUNIST manafesto keep going preaching the commie line.

[RolandCuthbert]

Yeah it sounds like you are yet another disingenuous cowardly troll. Posting from multiple accounts pretending like he is some "army".

You are only fooling yourself.

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

You had better look in the mirror!

[purplepoppy]

An accident is a random unplanned event. That surely is the result of making a stupid irresponsible decision and not an accident. He should be held accountable.

[007kingifrit]

an accident is any unintended consequence of an action

[zagor]

No, nor should he be. If a citizen kills someone attacking them or someone else, they would not be held criminally if one of the bullets penetrates a wall and kills someone they didn't even know was there. Of course the family of the victim could always take it to civil court.

If they are firing their gun to celebrate NYE or something and accidentally killed someone, then yes they would be charged.

[RolandCuthbert]

No, that is absolutely not the law. In almost every single state, you would have to prove that you or someone else were in immediate danger of grave bodily harm and that deadly force was the only means by which you could prevent such harm.

Clearly, that was not the case in this situation was the suspect was retreating.

If the police cannot be charged in such a situation, clearly there is a different standard of guilt for them than there would be for you or I.

[zagor]

That is simply not true. The person being attacked was indeed in immediate danger, so the shooting of the perp was justifiable. If your neighbor is being attacked with a knife and you shoot the stabber, but one of your shots goes into another house and kills someone, you would not be charged as the discharge of the weapon was justified, As I said, if you're shooting a gun because it's your birthday, that is another matter.

[RolandCuthbert]

There is no court that would rule that you or I were exempt because a woman was beaten, since the attacker had been chased off.

That is clearly not the law.

Just pick any state and you will see most codes will read as follows;

:"At the time you act, you must reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured. The level of force you use cannot exceed the threat with which you are faced. If the threat you face is death or great bodily harm, deadly force can be excusable."

So you can keep pretending that an ordinary citizen would not be charged, you will be alone in that belief. Citizens are jailed for accidental shootings of every type imaginable.

[zagor]

In this case the attacker was still standing over the victim, and had refused orders from the police to desist. He was not "chased off".

[RolandCuthbert]

So you saw the video, when the police were chasing the suspect. He was running away from his victim down an aisle and was rounding the corner when shot. You think a jury of your peers will excuse you for giving chase and letting loose with gunfire in a department store you knew had a bunch of innocent civilians in it.

I guess you think you can get away with it, if you just tell folks what they see, isn't what they see.

[captain_voidwalker]

Do I think the family should be compensated yes I do. Do I think the officer should be punished no I don't. The sad truth is sometimes realy bad shit just happens. And the one most at fault here is the person who committed the crime in the first place

[RolandCuthbert]

The person who was guilty of assault didn't even have a gun. How is he at fault? And why do we have different rules for police than for regular citizens. If you would be thrown in jail for having a CC permit and unloading at the suspect, why should the police be exceptions?

[captain_voidwalker]

He's at fault because he chose to break the law and start the whole situation in the first place.

[RolandCuthbert]

You did not answer the question.

Would you be in jail if you entered the store, took out your weapon and shot the suspect while killing an innocent girl?

[captain_voidwalker]

Probably, but society didn't ask me to go out and apprehend its criminal class either. Police have to deal with shitty situations that we the people ask them to deal with daily. So yes they have to have some protections in place to safe guard them or no one whould do the job.
Now we can have the opposite if you want and when someone takes a swing at you you pull out your 9mil and put one between his eyes and then go on about your day.

[RolandCuthbert]

So what you are saying is something totally unconstitutional. That police officers should be given exemptions while armed citizen should not.

And your example makes nonsense. We are not talking about you defending yourself. We are talking about the thousands of accidental deaths caused by citizens, that end in jail time.

[captain_voidwalker]

Because we don't ask armed citizens to arrest criminals. We ask police to perform that function. Now let me ask a question. Would this cop have shot the child if the criminal never committed the assault to begin with.

[RolandCuthbert]

But we do ask citizens to arrest criminals. What in the world are you even talking about. That's why we have gun laws. That's why having a gun is a fundamental right. You can walk into that store and make a citizen's arrest of that suspect.

But at the same time, you would claim you have less rights than a policeman. The great thing is most Americans reject such silliness. The law must be for all of us. . . or we are just lawless.

[captain_voidwalker]

Depends on where you live, now in my home state of Texas ghe law functions much like how you describe. But in places like new York city owning a gun is 100% illegal.

[LordOfThePines]

Sadly, I don't wager he will be held really accountable. The police protect their own, and we have seen numerous times police rounding the wagons around cops that have killed, raped, robbed and framed others.

I feel awful for this girl and her family. They know who killed their child, it is on camera and the guy admitted he shot her, but no justice will be done and nothing else can be done.

RIP child

[RolandCuthbert]

I guess all we can do is hope this family is able to get some semblance of justice.

Thanks for your post.

[888theGreat]

Shit happens in life. If the bad guy wouldn't have been a bad guy there wouldn't of been a shootout. So, the bad guy is responsible , but mommy and daddy will sue the one with the most money.

Why do we blame police for crime when BLM encourages it and Democrats encourage crime?

[RolandCuthbert]

A racist fruitcake claims the election was stolen with no evidence,

And you have the nerve to claim others encourage crime.

[888theGreat]

Anyone with common sense and that doesn't hate trump , can clearly see election was fixed.

[RolandCuthbert]

Really? Then why can't you find a single judge or jury to agree with you.

I mean after petitioning hundreds of different courts. . . there is one only constant, right?

[888theGreat]

Again ass hole , Bush Republicans worked hand in hand with Democrats to ruin Trump. They are called the establishment.

[RolandCuthbert]

Again racist fruitcake, you said that "anyone can see the election is stolen".

So why can't one single judge or jury agree with you?

You can keep saying the world is crazy. But after so many in the world tell you that you are insane. . . maybe they are the ones who are right.

[888theGreat]

No jury ever saw the evidence , that is the problem. You hate white people , I don't hate black people

[RolandCuthbert]

So the problem is that Trump, Giuliani, Bannon, Trump Jr, etc. have just been unable to present this evidence at a trial, like every other lawyer or free-thinking person in this society.

And that is the fault of "Black" people, libtards, and any and everyone who does not have their tongue stuck up Trump's anus. . . like you.

Got it!!!

slate.com/.../...r-biden-no-evidence-of-fraud.html

Trumpers Spent Millions on the Arizona Election Audit. All They Found Was More Votes for Biden.

[goaded]

Should he be? Yes. Will he be? Probably not.

Nobody should be shooting anyone who doesn't have a gun for property damage. If they're an immediate threat to someone's life, maybe, but this guy wasn't, aiui. Police should be better than this.

[Prettygurl12]

I would need more details. As a police officer, you are responsible for every bullet that you fire. Depending on the totality of the circumstances, civil and/or criminal charges may be appropriate.

[RolandCuthbert]

Uhm, you can watch the video. I don't understand this whole thing of needing more details. The clip of him running through the store and firing several shots is all there.

If you or I would be in jail because we opened fired on a guy beating a woman in a store. . . hitting an innocent girl, then that officer needs the same sentence.

Period.

[t-8900]

The cops outnumbered the guy 15-1 and we're armed while he wasn't. They didn't verify weather or not he was armed and opted to use a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot. These cops are too stupid

[Shark_61695]

Wtf? Why in any possible world would a cop carry such a imprecise weapon? If they are such a crap shot that they can't guarantee hitting with a single bullet, they should not be allowed to carry a gun. There should be no reason to carry a shotgun (buckshot) due to collateral damage.

[t-8900]

@Shark_61695 exactly. Well the guy punched a woman a few times but STILL no weapons. Cops were idiots.

[cth96190]

The idea of action against the cop, or any person in a similar situation, is absurd.
Anyone who would entertain the idea is demonstrating a low IQ and a child-like cognitive process.

[RolandCuthbert]

And yet there are too many cases to count where citizens are thrown in jail for accidentally killing someone.

It is so weird to make insulting remarks about IQ. . . when this happens almost every single day.

www.newsweek.com/alec-augustino-braz-accidental-shooting-neck-massachusetts-1600258

Massachusetts man who had only recently received his license to carry a gun has been arrested after he unintentionally shot his friend in the neck while showing him his new firearm.

Alec Augustino Braz, 22, from Woburn, Massachusetts, a city located around nine miles from Boston, was arrested on Saturday and charged with discharging a firearm within 500 feet of a building, improper storage of a firearm, and assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, according to a statement by the Woburn Police Department.

[Stoner710]

given itsLA or NYC no same goes with portland and seattle in Huston Maimi or Dallas or KC yes they should. the people who should be prosecuted is the city council itself and the governor and the mayor

[Agape93]

Nope. He'll either resign or He'll be fired and move to a new precinct. At most. I don't see him getting arrested, much less imprisoned.

[John_Doesnt]

An American cop? Probably not. The George Floyd case was rare and will not happen again without huge changes.

[RolandCuthbert]

Wow. . . you can't be this ignorant.

[John_Doesnt]

most police murders are never punished. You're the ignorant one

[RolandCuthbert]

Oh my bad. I thought you were saying something different.
We are in a different age. Most officers still avoid accountability. But little by little. . .

[bgreek]

Why bother with a trial the cop is guilty?
Save the taxpayer's some money
And toss him in General population

[ManHater]

No... Roland, have you not seen the news. The DA and governing bodies will not press charges on the officer. he's clean to go. How could he have known. it was a freak accident.

[RolandCuthbert]

That's my point, you or I would be in jail.