s 
I never really heard of them until I joined GaG.
Having chatted to mates I served with who are confirmed 100% bachelors, divorced and or just not bothered in a relationship, they have always existed, the internet just gives more of the bitter ones a voice.
The vast majority of guys I know who are single for whatever reason do not bleat on about it, they just get on with life and don’t do this shouting about it every 5 minutes how, that’s it they are going, right going now, I’m going, etc.
A lot of it just comes across as hate driven social media stuff with American political bias.
No doubt the normal crowd who have adopted this philosophy (or whatever it is) are fine, however a bit like any movement, there are fanatics and extremists, in this case of The MEOW lot, those are the ones that constantly bleat about how unfair life is to them.
A lot of the times these people own their own house, have decent jobs etc, do these people actually help out others in society or do they just MEOW a lot.
just watched the YouTube video from one of the options below, god how many times was Government mentioned, that sort of sums it up.
Who is responsible, … Americans and social media,
I also struggle with this Traditional and modern thing, some guys in to this are young, at what point did they ever meet a traditional woman (whatever one is)?
Do they have a Mummy complex?
I've always known girls, women to have their own opinions, to have their own voice and push for equality (even at school).
if traditional is one that does what her husband says, then please no, not someone that’s simply a lap dog that looks good on the arm.
Social media to me just gives people with an axe to grind or wanting pity a large audience. The same with this lot, it gives a bunch of guys who have always existed throughout history the chance to tell everyone they are doing there own thing, and keep telling everyone and keep telling everyone and keep telling everyone….
At some part in it all are a lot of very valid reasons, however the ‘noise’ detracts from those very valid points and they get lost and not addressed.
As with any movement, they need to self police and shutdown fanatics and extremists.
A but like Incel extremists, ask a lot of people in the UK what an Incel is and they will just say someone that goes crazy with a shotgun and murders people and kids.
The internet doesn't make you stupid, it just makes your stupidity more apparent to others.
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We're dealing with a time where we are "technically" more connected than ever, but are actually less connected than ever before. So loneliness has been a rising problem that we need to address with empathy.
I've gone down this rabbithole myself. Before we had the word "incel" to describe it. It was after some girls falsely accused me and almost got me expelled. I had to dig myself out because nobody cared to help me out of it. If I had to place blame on a single group, I would put it more towards the "Pick-Up Artist" authors and content creators.
Like, it's normal for people to get frustrated and lonely. It's normal to have a lot of fear about this in your teens and young adulthood. We need mentors to help people through this. For women, there have been tons of movements addressing just about every insecurity, but our response to men with these same insecurities has essentially been "you don't GET to have them". Men already had problems with small social circles that are always kept at arms' length. The loneliness epidemic has whittled it down to a thin string. So they long for mentorship and to be heard.
So when some guy shows up saying "I hear what you are saying! Nobody is listening to you, but I am! You're broken and I can fix you!" young men cling to THAT. I've read these books because I went through the same thing. Some of them had some good stuff about getting in touch with your feelings and learning social cues. But the majority of them seemed to essentially use these fears and insecurities as a hook, tell you that you are failing because you are incompetent, and then say that THEY have the answer. The answer was usually the "alpha male".
They would talk about how many species have an "alpha male" who competes with the other males, asserts dominance, forces others into submission, and then monopolizes sexuality. "There are only the men on top, and the men who don't matter."
My #1 fear as a kid was that I was spending all this time trying to be a good person, only for it to be the person who never cared about being good who everyone respects, and can't respect me, or even HATES me, BECAUSE I'm a good person? After being in a women's support group and then being accused of the very thing I was fighting against, it sure felt like it. And what these books basically said was "Yeah pretty much. And the fact that you're here whining about being a bottom feeder is why you're a bottom feeder."
This was where I first heard the idea "When women say no, they are using it to filter the real men from the spineless ones. A real man knows what he wants, and will chase her anyway. This is what she's looking for." Basically take whatever dystopian scenario I had in my head and say "Turns out, that's actually real."
From there, you basically have a choice to accept what they are saying and learn how to be a proper peacock on the basis that "if you sexually harass 20 women, chances are one of them is into it." Or you ALSO accept what they are saying, and view a world where women reward the worst men and use the best men. I had no desire to EVER be a guy who plunge through women's boundaries like this. So I ended up heading towards the latter. That's where you get the Anti-PUAs, MGTOWs, and Incels.
At my worst, I believed that women were actively breeding men to be violent misogynists so that they get to take the victim stance in all things. Hell, I once said "love is just that weird period between you meeting a woman and her finally digging up a justification for hating you." I got pretty damned low.
The thing that finally started my journey out was Chris Ryan's book, "Sex at Dawn" which flipped the "alpha male" narrative on its head. Once that root was cut, the rest of the Incel tree withered and died.
Courts that reinforce the tenets of Kate Millet Disease as gospel truth, and rob and destroy families, then tell different lies to the wronged children the system abused, based on gender.
Leading to a rise of immaturity and sociopathy in women, and a rise of self-pity and despair in men.
Which leads to the inevitable hitting the fan. And the men learn all sorts of lessons. Sometimes, the wrong ones. While only a handful of women learn anything.
See, a lot of those men that think the woman that screwed him (and her armies of pathetic simps and delusional white knight templars) are the "real enemy," they're wrong. That's not the true red pill, let alone white.
Likewise, women who think men are babies for refusing to be looted by irresponsible gold diggers for money they can't earn due to jobs that the government stole from them to give to the CCP, are still blue pilled.
Red pill, is realizing that the powers that are tolerated have lied to and been controlling both of you into becoming petty assholes, so you'll be too busy fighting each other over nonsense and childishness to join forces - and send their lying, treasonous, cowardly asses to the gallows where they belong!
So men who think giving up on "all women" as being too corrupt to be worthwhile, and imagining this is the "red pill," have been deceived by the maroon pill. A false red pill that turns these disillusioned men into controlled opposition, unable to make any meaningful difference.
These societies get one thing right: we're all being played. Question is, how best to identify and do in the dirty player? And the better question: how will all of us, male and female, best learn to eat whatever humble pie is necessary to overcome whatever douchery cripples us, so we may be better able to not be playthings in the future, but instead be competent complements to one another, as God and nature intended? How to kick the Serpent in the nuts?
See, the answer is not very straightforward. Allow me to explain:
The red pill has always existed. This is how men conversate in their own spaces. The reason why it became such a shock to women, is because women are never in male spaces. The red pill was never mainstream, like say female shows like "The View" are for example. The closest thing you have to a "male space" back then was Fox Sports, where you have sport journalists bringing the news about the NFL and analyzing games for example.
On the other hand, dating shows have always been targeted towards women. Doesn't mean that men didn't have an opinion over it, it's just that our opinion was not mainstream, because it might come off as "politically incorrect" which is not good for business.
Now, do not confuse the red pill ideology with "traditionalism". Traditionally, men want to get married. The red pill on the other hand is about self-improvement and female nature, and topics like "hypergamy" are widely discussed. "Spinning plates" is another term that they used, meaning maintaining a constant rotation of women and so on. As a traditional man myself, I do not agree with that aspect of the red pill, but I like to follow the guidance ok self-improvement, and setting up rules and regulations for the woman in the relationship that shouldn't be crossed. The "blue pill" man tends to be more carefree and easygoing, while the "red pill" man tends to be more strict in relationships. The "blue pill" man values monogamy, while the "red pill" man doesn't commit to one woman. I like to take the best of both worlds in my approach, so that means being driven and having a purpose, commitment to one person, but being strict in how I enforce the regulations of the relationship and not being a "pushover" like the "blue pill" guy if it makes any sense. That's what a traditional man is about.
Now let's talk about MGTOW. Forget everything else I told you above, these men don't go by any of these rules. MGTOW men are basically fed up with women. A "red pill" man is not fed up with women, he is just a man who learned how to play the game and made adjustments. "Red pill" guys still date women, but you won't be the only one, and there's a chance he can be cheating on you, since cheating is somewhat acceptable in the red pill movement (I can go on to further explain this one later if I'm asked). However, MGTOW men do not engage in an relationships with women, casual or long-term. They only hook up with women and throw them to the side after they are done. A lot of them don't want children, but some would either adopt or pay $20k+ to buy a female egg that they can fertilize, just to avoid dealing with women. Does it sound extreme? Yes. I would not advice any man to take that approach, since it is toxic.
MGTOW is a metaphor that describes men who can't deal with the reality because nothing is perfect and women don't owe you anything. It's an epidemy of Incels and Nice guys. They actually make topics and discuss things about the woman's body (anatomy), of what they truly are (personality-wise), that can't be trusted. And also ESPECIALLY why they chase the bad ones and neglect the good dudes. You might read or heard the topic when a "good guy" complained about it in a passive aggressive way.
First of all, these topics MUST STOP. Women can choose whomever they want to be with because that is not your responsibility.
Instead, it's a mysogynistic group that talk trash about women because they believe women owe them a relationship and sex. And this MGTOW Group are nothing but nice guys.
Why do they do that?
-Terrible manners
-False friends
-Lack of education
-Bad parenting
-Being immature
Those guys are like Market-sellers who try to convince women to choose them as their Boyfriend.
Their topics are so disconnected from the reality, that they actually give their best to convince themselves that they are living in the reality.
And their topics about exposing women make it look like it's the government's darkest and biggest secrets
Dear MGTOW:
-Women don't owe you anything
-they can choose whomever they want to be wih in a relationship
-Stop the hating and focus on your career/studies/homework
Dating is dangerous for men, There is no real upside in marriage for men.
Women Don't work hard enough to make Marriages work like they used to in general I don't remember what the percentage of marriages end in divorce but I think it's around 80% which will result in you most likely losing everything you own and hold dear to you like your wife, your kids your house and your car. you will have to pay child support.
The law takes women's side even in extreme circumstances, I had a domestic violence order put on me when I called my wife a bitch when she smashed up my face with a stack a dinner plates, Never Threatened or touched her and she received no assault charge. My step mother threatened to frame me for rape because she through I had the same blood group as my father.
So many Bunny Boilers out there.
Also Women like to dictate how they want their man to live his life.
Option 1 Possible jail, no quality of life, just misery and financial ruin.
Option 2 freedom, wealth and no stress with possible loneliness.
As a man with mgtow ideals, I chose C because there are many types of mgtow. For instance, I'm what many would consider a mgtow-monk (or its equivalent). But I'm not that way because I've been hurt due to rejection. It's a lot deeper than that.
But most mgtows nowadays are that way because of the possible & often severely unfair negative consequences of dating & marriage. It's why you see it happening morso in gynocentric societies or more developed ones with the government involved in the dating or marriage process.
Here's a reasonable & reliable video on mgtow if you care to know more:
Glad it's getting more known. Woman take the most responsibility for what happened. Many good men was not appreciated and brought everything to the table and then the woman coldly cheat and broke his heart. Generally as a red pilled myself we realized today's woman doesn't bring much to our life other than sex which we can buy it with cash but we bring things you cannot buy. Security cash our energy our time taking you out and pay the the dinner taking care of you and after all that the woman would leave for a bad boy and then after cock carousel round she wants back !! And asking why men are different and where are all the good men ! I have seen devastated Young guys because the butch broked his heart to pieces and some got alcohol addicted or other bad thing while she enjoying watching movies. Unfortunately modern woman are bad and the dating market are full of chameleon that's why the redpill shine and is the way. However there's still good woman of course but they're small percentage.
I don't think it's either men or women as a gender that can be blamed for this. Yeah, those who take extremist actions in their name should be blamed for their own actions, but in general these groups are composed of more frustrated than violent people. And I don't think their frustrations are all completely invalid.
The media and power elites love to divide and conquer. Notice that most "extremist" groups that the media talks about, they only talk about the most extreme and violent members and are not representative of the whole group, then also notice that for most of those groups they politicize them with labels like "far-right extremists" and lump them in with other groups they talk about like white supremacists, etc.
In a way, the rise of these groups are the power elites reward for fostering and maintaining a sh*tty socioeconomic status quo.
Those who fund right wing media. The mgtow/incel/pill things are just different iterations of the same attempt to figure out how to turn common male sexual frustrations against the democrats. Billions have been spent on right wing think tanks, which are tasked with figuring out how to appeal to people without giving them anything of substance, and the incel/pill/mgtow things are just another thing they came up with.
The options on this poll are extremely biased and proving that you are part of the problem. At least when I create polls I try to put myself in the mind of other people I don’t agree with. I don’t leave “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” options.
When it all comes down to it this is NOT a sex issue or dating issue men are most angry about. It’s a RESPECT issue. Also most of these “incels” you see complaining here would likely have been happily married in a different time era. Most of these guys are just normal average men who have been driven to the brink.
Women only care about men’s issues when it can benefit them somehow (e. g. they already like the guy). There is a reason why men have 4x suicide rates and your dismissive attitude towards them isn’t helping. And as for your option B about standards most women have higher standard for the men they date then they have for themselves. Unlike you we are not “special” just for existing.
Think it's probably a mix of all the above, although I feel most personally affected by the second. I don't think it's that I can't handle rejection in an individual sense, but when it's all I've got, while seeing people in objectively worse positions than me (be it weight, wealth, appearance etc) succeed it ends up just making me feel worthless and like giving up.
None of the advice helps and no-one will say what's wrong, for example, showed my dating profile to a female colleague and she was surprised to hear I got no matches as she thought it was good.
u Would say a mix of factors online dating made dating as a whole much harder for people that didn't have the social skills to start add to that the actual numbers when it comes to who are on dating sites with it being silly like 7 guys to 1 girl women where able to become more picky (not in a bad way they simply had the choice) which lead to guys believing women as a whole will only got for a buff rich guy
Yeah, I’m sure that they have always been around, but the internet amplifies the loudest voices, and sadly for the rest of us, the loudest people are the lonely feminists, the wokesters, and the MGTOW/INCEL losers! These sad, pathetic people are likely to be the voices that woke legacy media types listen to, just so they can SAY they do!
I think they have always existed but never lived up to their "potential" shall we say, until they connected with other like minded individuals and they riled eachother up and developed this attitude and ethos.
I don't think the media and social media help either, with the ideas they project and allow to spread like wildfire.
Everywhere you look these days someone is trying to push division, and they prey on the weak minded.
The Red Pill and MGTOW has existed for decades. It has been a sentiment which could only be shared and talked about in men's barbershops or from an elder in a moment of confidence. But the internet and in particular YouTube has made it much easier for content creators to share their experiences and theories with outers and it has really resonated with men around the world. I have been MGTOW since about a decade, but it's only two years ago that I really found out about it on YouTube and the content by several mature content creators has matched up about 90 % of my life's experiences.
More than half the marriages ending in divorce, with women filing the vast majority of them. Alimony, losing half your assets and the unfair family court system. So why should any man take such a big risk? - Many men are deciding that the rewards are nowhere near the risk.
Affirmative action programs for women.
Gender quotas for women.
The Gillette ad that tries to guilt men because bad things happen to women.
The SCUM manifesto.
The duluth model.
The dishonest , narrow minded and one-sided view of history.
The hijacking of the metoo movement by certain women, making false allegations for selfish gain and shameless self promotion.
Emma watsons "heforshe" bs backed by the UN.
Whos responsible? Insane feminist supported by multi billion global corporations , with government backing.
This was mostly a conservative and libertarian movement. It was always there, but with the Internet these pathetic men can now sound louder. I don't think it's even an actual belief or movement, it's probably just some conservative propaganda to try to get men riled up against the "evil libs".
I personally dont care what they do as long they dont spread hate spech aka dont divide men and women and stay away from minors. I heard that some of them chase barely legal girls to "train" them and make them their submissive dream hot housewifes/slaves
Women. When 90% of women find 10% of men Attractive... there's a leftover 90% of men that are unfulfilled. Examples: homelessness rate, suicide rate, and divorce rate. 75% of divorces are initiated by women. The government incentive for women to be irresponsible for housing vouchers and food stamps. It's funny how women have so many questions as if they didn't understand that nobody seriously holds them accountable
The biggest reasons are:
1) Government heavily favors women in the court system when it comes to divorces and children. It’s extremely risky for men to get married.
2) New feminist wave is extremely misandrist. It’s no longer about equal rights, but more an attack on men.
3) Lots of innocent men have been accused of rape, and have had their lives ruined. It’s like playing with fire when dealing with women you don’t know.
4) The new age dating and promiscuity has destroyed chivalry. Men have a hard time loving and respecting a woman who don’t respect themselves, leading to men “giving up” and just trying to screw as many women as possible instead of looking for true love.
5) Men have a natural instinct to love, provide, and protect. Society has said these are misogynistic qualities. If you take away these natural instincts, you basically destroy the man.
This is just some of my opinions.
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