I never really heard of them until I joined GaG.
Having chatted to mates I served with who are confirmed 100% bachelors, divorced and or just not bothered in a relationship, they have always existed, the internet just gives more of the bitter ones a voice.
The vast majority of guys I know who are single for whatever reason do not bleat on about it, they just get on with life and don’t do this shouting about it every 5 minutes how, that’s it they are going, right going now, I’m going, etc.
A lot of it just comes across as hate driven social media stuff with American political bias.
No doubt the normal crowd who have adopted this philosophy (or whatever it is) are fine, however a bit like any movement, there are fanatics and extremists, in this case of The MEOW lot, those are the ones that constantly bleat about how unfair life is to them.
A lot of the times these people own their own house, have decent jobs etc, do these people actually help out others in society or do they just MEOW a lot.
just watched the YouTube video from one of the options below, god how many times was Government mentioned, that sort of sums it up.
Who is responsible, … Americans and social media,
I also struggle with this Traditional and modern thing, some guys in to this are young, at what point did they ever meet a traditional woman (whatever one is)?
Do they have a Mummy complex?
I've always known girls, women to have their own opinions, to have their own voice and push for equality (even at school).
if traditional is one that does what her husband says, then please no, not someone that’s simply a lap dog that looks good on the arm.
Social media to me just gives people with an axe to grind or wanting pity a large audience. The same with this lot, it gives a bunch of guys who have always existed throughout history the chance to tell everyone they are doing there own thing, and keep telling everyone and keep telling everyone and keep telling everyone….
At some part in it all are a lot of very valid reasons, however the ‘noise’ detracts from those very valid points and they get lost and not addressed.
As with any movement, they need to self police and shutdown fanatics and extremists.
A but like Incel extremists, ask a lot of people in the UK what an Incel is and they will just say someone that goes crazy with a shotgun and murders people and kids.
@ez-bri-z thank you for MHG, most appreciated
I agree. I never heard of mgtow till I got on here. In my real world the guys I know aren't like that.
But I can understand this 3rd wave feminism, aka feminazis, turning men off. Especially if they think the majority of women are feminazis.
@PinkMichae yeah 100% any extreme part of any movement simply attract those that foam at the mouth. It’s this side of bigotry that is crazy, where they are in a part of society which faces a level of discrimination but then is happy to attack another part of society which also faces discrimination.
Racist LGBT against non whites
Feminist against LGBT
Etc
The internet doesn't make you stupid, it just makes your stupidity more apparent to others.
Opinion
73Opinion
We're dealing with a time where we are "technically" more connected than ever, but are actually less connected than ever before. So loneliness has been a rising problem that we need to address with empathy.
I've gone down this rabbithole myself. Before we had the word "incel" to describe it. It was after some girls falsely accused me and almost got me expelled. I had to dig myself out because nobody cared to help me out of it. If I had to place blame on a single group, I would put it more towards the "Pick-Up Artist" authors and content creators.
Like, it's normal for people to get frustrated and lonely. It's normal to have a lot of fear about this in your teens and young adulthood. We need mentors to help people through this. For women, there have been tons of movements addressing just about every insecurity, but our response to men with these same insecurities has essentially been "you don't GET to have them". Men already had problems with small social circles that are always kept at arms' length. The loneliness epidemic has whittled it down to a thin string. So they long for mentorship and to be heard.
So when some guy shows up saying "I hear what you are saying! Nobody is listening to you, but I am! You're broken and I can fix you!" young men cling to THAT. I've read these books because I went through the same thing. Some of them had some good stuff about getting in touch with your feelings and learning social cues. But the majority of them seemed to essentially use these fears and insecurities as a hook, tell you that you are failing because you are incompetent, and then say that THEY have the answer. The answer was usually the "alpha male".
They would talk about how many species have an "alpha male" who competes with the other males, asserts dominance, forces others into submission, and then monopolizes sexuality. "There are only the men on top, and the men who don't matter."
My #1 fear as a kid was that I was spending all this time trying to be a good person, only for it to be the person who never cared about being good who everyone respects, and can't respect me, or even HATES me, BECAUSE I'm a good person? After being in a women's support group and then being accused of the very thing I was fighting against, it sure felt like it. And what these books basically said was "Yeah pretty much. And the fact that you're here whining about being a bottom feeder is why you're a bottom feeder."
This was where I first heard the idea "When women say no, they are using it to filter the real men from the spineless ones. A real man knows what he wants, and will chase her anyway. This is what she's looking for." Basically take whatever dystopian scenario I had in my head and say "Turns out, that's actually real."
From there, you basically have a choice to accept what they are saying and learn how to be a proper peacock on the basis that "if you sexually harass 20 women, chances are one of them is into it." Or you ALSO accept what they are saying, and view a world where women reward the worst men and use the best men. I had no desire to EVER be a guy who plunge through women's boundaries like this. So I ended up heading towards the latter. That's where you get the Anti-PUAs, MGTOWs, and Incels.
At my worst, I believed that women were actively breeding men to be violent misogynists so that they get to take the victim stance in all things. Hell, I once said "love is just that weird period between you meeting a woman and her finally digging up a justification for hating you." I got pretty damned low.
The thing that finally started my journey out was Chris Ryan's book, "Sex at Dawn" which flipped the "alpha male" narrative on its head. Once that root was cut, the rest of the Incel tree withered and died.
Courts that reinforce the tenets of Kate Millet Disease as gospel truth, and rob and destroy families, then tell different lies to the wronged children the system abused, based on gender.
Leading to a rise of immaturity and sociopathy in women, and a rise of self-pity and despair in men.
Which leads to the inevitable hitting the fan. And the men learn all sorts of lessons. Sometimes, the wrong ones. While only a handful of women learn anything.
See, a lot of those men that think the woman that screwed him (and her armies of pathetic simps and delusional white knight templars) are the "real enemy," they're wrong. That's not the true red pill, let alone white.
Likewise, women who think men are babies for refusing to be looted by irresponsible gold diggers for money they can't earn due to jobs that the government stole from them to give to the CCP, are still blue pilled.
Red pill, is realizing that the powers that are tolerated have lied to and been controlling both of you into becoming petty assholes, so you'll be too busy fighting each other over nonsense and childishness to join forces - and send their lying, treasonous, cowardly asses to the gallows where they belong!
So men who think giving up on "all women" as being too corrupt to be worthwhile, and imagining this is the "red pill," have been deceived by the maroon pill. A false red pill that turns these disillusioned men into controlled opposition, unable to make any meaningful difference.
These societies get one thing right: we're all being played. Question is, how best to identify and do in the dirty player? And the better question: how will all of us, male and female, best learn to eat whatever humble pie is necessary to overcome whatever douchery cripples us, so we may be better able to not be playthings in the future, but instead be competent complements to one another, as God and nature intended? How to kick the Serpent in the nuts?
See, the answer is not very straightforward. Allow me to explain:
The red pill has always existed. This is how men conversate in their own spaces. The reason why it became such a shock to women, is because women are never in male spaces. The red pill was never mainstream, like say female shows like "The View" are for example. The closest thing you have to a "male space" back then was Fox Sports, where you have sport journalists bringing the news about the NFL and analyzing games for example.
On the other hand, dating shows have always been targeted towards women. Doesn't mean that men didn't have an opinion over it, it's just that our opinion was not mainstream, because it might come off as "politically incorrect" which is not good for business.
Now, do not confuse the red pill ideology with "traditionalism". Traditionally, men want to get married. The red pill on the other hand is about self-improvement and female nature, and topics like "hypergamy" are widely discussed. "Spinning plates" is another term that they used, meaning maintaining a constant rotation of women and so on. As a traditional man myself, I do not agree with that aspect of the red pill, but I like to follow the guidance ok self-improvement, and setting up rules and regulations for the woman in the relationship that shouldn't be crossed. The "blue pill" man tends to be more carefree and easygoing, while the "red pill" man tends to be more strict in relationships. The "blue pill" man values monogamy, while the "red pill" man doesn't commit to one woman. I like to take the best of both worlds in my approach, so that means being driven and having a purpose, commitment to one person, but being strict in how I enforce the regulations of the relationship and not being a "pushover" like the "blue pill" guy if it makes any sense. That's what a traditional man is about.
Now let's talk about MGTOW. Forget everything else I told you above, these men don't go by any of these rules. MGTOW men are basically fed up with women. A "red pill" man is not fed up with women, he is just a man who learned how to play the game and made adjustments. "Red pill" guys still date women, but you won't be the only one, and there's a chance he can be cheating on you, since cheating is somewhat acceptable in the red pill movement (I can go on to further explain this one later if I'm asked). However, MGTOW men do not engage in an relationships with women, casual or long-term. They only hook up with women and throw them to the side after they are done. A lot of them don't want children, but some would either adopt or pay $20k+ to buy a female egg that they can fertilize, just to avoid dealing with women. Does it sound extreme? Yes. I would not advice any man to take that approach, since it is toxic.
Now, after I explained all of this, here are some key things you should know:
A) Most men in Western society are blue pill.
B) Men don't change from the blue pill to red pill/black pill/MGTOW, unless they are done wrong by a woman. This could be due to infidelity, disrespect and so on.
C) Different guys can react differently. If the nature of the act is being rejected repeatedly for environmental reasons for example (money, body, game, etc), they can turn into red pill guys who are about self-improvement, and expand their options into having an "abundance mindset", basically turning into players. If they are rejected due to factors that are genetic (face and height), they can turn into pessimistic incels "black pill" who believe there's nothing they can do to change their height for example. However, if it is due to repeated negative treatment from women, at some point they can leave them altogether and turn into MGTOW.
D) Remember how I said the "red pill" has always existed? That's because players have always existed. It's just not socially acceptable by women, but that has been there since the dawn of time.
E) Refer to point A. When I say that most men in Western society are "blue pill", I don't mean in a traditional sense. A blue pill man is typically a man who splits the check on dates, let's women take the lead in some occasions, and is somewhat passive. A traditional man on the other hand always pays for a date, always takes the lead, and expects his wife to respect his authority. The reason why most men in society are "blue pill" is because of feminism, and the demonization of traditional men fo being quote-on-quote "too controlling".
F) The recent rise in men taking different "pills" if you will is also feminism. It might sound counter-productive, but allow me to explain. You see, blue pill men take female dating advice. That it's only their "personality" that gets them a woman, and that they should "just be themselves", and when they realize that it doesn't work, they start searching for solutions outside of that. Back in the day, fathers used to give that advice to their sons, but with the rise of feminism and female-dominated dating media, some guys have started to take notes of what women say, only to realize later that it doesn't work and switch up. Depending on the nature of the rejection, they can take a different "pill" if that makes sense. Refer to point C.
So, after I explained all of this, how do we end this madness? I want women to understand that these movements are only a reaction to their behavior. While red pill might have existed, the MGTOW community is relatively new and very toxic. The black pill are basically the men who cannot get women for reasons outside of their control, but that has existed as well. 2 ways a man can turn into a player. Either by being naturally good with women, or being rejected many times that he ends up working on himself and becomes more attractive to women. In the 1st scenario, he might settle down at some point. In the 2nd scenario, he basically turns into a "red pill" man that messes with different women with no plans of settling down, and in a lot of these scenarios the women he messes with know about each other and chose to share him. MGTOW is the male equivalent of 4th wave radical feminism. These guys are hurt, and are reacting to women's behavior. If women want to end this, they first have to come to the table and address the issues on their part and take accountability for the demonization of traditionalism, and then more men would start to revert back to how it was back in the day.
MGTOW is a metaphor that describes men who can't deal with the reality because nothing is perfect and women don't owe you anything. It's an epidemy of Incels and Nice guys. They actually make topics and discuss things about the woman's body (anatomy), of what they truly are (personality-wise), that can't be trusted. And also ESPECIALLY why they chase the bad ones and neglect the good dudes. You might read or heard the topic when a "good guy" complained about it in a passive aggressive way.
First of all, these topics MUST STOP. Women can choose whomever they want to be with because that is not your responsibility.
Instead, it's a mysogynistic group that talk trash about women because they believe women owe them a relationship and sex. And this MGTOW Group are nothing but nice guys.
Why do they do that?
-Terrible manners
-False friends
-Lack of education
-Bad parenting
-Being immature
Those guys are like Market-sellers who try to convince women to choose them as their Boyfriend.
Their topics are so disconnected from the reality, that they actually give their best to convince themselves that they are living in the reality.
And their topics about exposing women make it look like it's the government's darkest and biggest secrets
Dear MGTOW:
-Women don't owe you anything
-they can choose whomever they want to be wih in a relationship
-Stop the hating and focus on your career/studies/homework
In addition, the only thing why the good guys are called good is because they are good at talking trash about females only and being delusional.
Dating is dangerous for men, There is no real upside in marriage for men.
Women Don't work hard enough to make Marriages work like they used to in general I don't remember what the percentage of marriages end in divorce but I think it's around 80% which will result in you most likely losing everything you own and hold dear to you like your wife, your kids your house and your car. you will have to pay child support.
The law takes women's side even in extreme circumstances, I had a domestic violence order put on me when I called my wife a bitch when she smashed up my face with a stack a dinner plates, Never Threatened or touched her and she received no assault charge. My step mother threatened to frame me for rape because she through I had the same blood group as my father.
So many Bunny Boilers out there.
Also Women like to dictate how they want their man to live his life.
Option 1 Possible jail, no quality of life, just misery and financial ruin.
Option 2 freedom, wealth and no stress with possible loneliness.
As a man with mgtow ideals, I chose C because there are many types of mgtow. For instance, I'm what many would consider a mgtow-monk (or its equivalent). But I'm not that way because I've been hurt due to rejection. It's a lot deeper than that.
But most mgtows nowadays are that way because of the possible & often severely unfair negative consequences of dating & marriage. It's why you see it happening morso in gynocentric societies or more developed ones with the government involved in the dating or marriage process.
Here's a reasonable & reliable video on mgtow if you care to know more:
But I think C is the most accurate option because A implies that they aren't dealing with it well. But Depending on the pill you associate with, you could be dealing with it very well or very badly. So it's not that simple.
And B doesn't really cover the manosphere in general. Because for instance, I'm not a volcel because of women's standards. I could easily get a girlfriend if I wanted to. I'm volcel because of my own standards.
And I will admit, D is funny 🤣 but not the reasoning. It's just a perk I guess
Glad it's getting more known. Woman take the most responsibility for what happened. Many good men was not appreciated and brought everything to the table and then the woman coldly cheat and broke his heart. Generally as a red pilled myself we realized today's woman doesn't bring much to our life other than sex which we can buy it with cash but we bring things you cannot buy. Security cash our energy our time taking you out and pay the the dinner taking care of you and after all that the woman would leave for a bad boy and then after cock carousel round she wants back !! And asking why men are different and where are all the good men ! I have seen devastated Young guys because the butch broked his heart to pieces and some got alcohol addicted or other bad thing while she enjoying watching movies. Unfortunately modern woman are bad and the dating market are full of chameleon that's why the redpill shine and is the way. However there's still good woman of course but they're small percentage.
I don't think it's either men or women as a gender that can be blamed for this. Yeah, those who take extremist actions in their name should be blamed for their own actions, but in general these groups are composed of more frustrated than violent people. And I don't think their frustrations are all completely invalid.
The media and power elites love to divide and conquer. Notice that most "extremist" groups that the media talks about, they only talk about the most extreme and violent members and are not representative of the whole group, then also notice that for most of those groups they politicize them with labels like "far-right extremists" and lump them in with other groups they talk about like white supremacists, etc.
In a way, the rise of these groups are the power elites reward for fostering and maintaining a sh*tty socioeconomic status quo.
Those who fund right wing media. The mgtow/incel/pill things are just different iterations of the same attempt to figure out how to turn common male sexual frustrations against the democrats. Billions have been spent on right wing think tanks, which are tasked with figuring out how to appeal to people without giving them anything of substance, and the incel/pill/mgtow things are just another thing they came up with.
The options on this poll are extremely biased and proving that you are part of the problem. At least when I create polls I try to put myself in the mind of other people I don’t agree with. I don’t leave “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” options.
When it all comes down to it this is NOT a sex issue or dating issue men are most angry about. It’s a RESPECT issue. Also most of these “incels” you see complaining here would likely have been happily married in a different time era. Most of these guys are just normal average men who have been driven to the brink.
Women only care about men’s issues when it can benefit them somehow (e. g. they already like the guy). There is a reason why men have 4x suicide rates and your dismissive attitude towards them isn’t helping. And as for your option B about standards most women have higher standard for the men they date then they have for themselves. Unlike you we are not “special” just for existing.
s Well Mr anonymous, keeping in mind I was brave enough to attach my name and face to my opinion I offer you a chance to do the same.
Feel free to give me options you believe are fair.
As for your happily married in another time, yeah, because women couldn't work as easily so we were forced to marry just to survive. Now these same men need to be something besides a paycheck and they have not figured out how to be.
I de-anonymized myself. Happy now?
The thing is @ez-bri-z is you created this poll with an assumption already made in your mind you know the answer. You already assume you know the truth. And most of all (and worst of all) you already assume you understand men. You don’t really understand nor will you ever fully get our POV (and admittedly vice versa)
But I saw you have once attempted to put some deep thought into understanding “Trump supporters”. There were slights in that take as well but at least for a moment you attempted to take a step back.
The reason why you men post lots of negativity about women on GAG is because we don’t have the luxury of saying these things publicly without losing face. We are more likely to stay silent or change the subject in public spheres. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have our own issues.
As for “incels”. There is always going to men like this in any time era. They got deep seated issues. But most of what you see is just average guys who are confused, angry and frustrated trying to figure out what the hell women really want (not “say” they want) in modern times.
Anyway I doubt we are going to agree on a lot of things. You know what that’s fine. But you should really stop this “my team vs your team” approach. It’s just making everything worse.
As for your options. You are welcome to keep the existing ones. But also include this one next time:
Option “Z”: Many red pill guys are just well me sign average men who got burned one too many times. Maybe they are just unlucky. Maybe they lacked a positive female role model growing up (mommy issues). Maybe they were just born in the wrong time era. But whatever the reason their pain is real. We should try getting to know their story and POV before passing judgment.
s Much happier! Thank you. I like it when people own up to what they post. It's why I never go anonymous.
I actually don't know why and typically don't have a reason when I go in (MyTakes are a different story though). Usually I use these questions to prep for future MyTakes and yes controversy let's me really drive in response for me to analyze. It lets me determine who may be good interviews later for my MyTakes.
So no, I had no assumption in mind but you clearly did about me. Hopefully now you know my reasoning for these questions and why I post the way I do.
I dont have a team other than common sense and a sense of justice no matter which side it is coming from.
I did that piece with X7 on the Trump MyTake with his full approval of what went out. I still have all our interview notes. I had no intention of painting him in a negative light but im still allowed to have my thoughts. I'm not a reporter. In the end it is still MY take to have. Im just giving others a voice of opposition and then giving them final sign off in the end.
Heck, I may want to interview you one day for a piece about this. Generally that works for those who show they can debate civilly with me.
Alright. Thank you for taking a step back on that. Really i do appreciate it.
I don’t belong to MGTOW or red pill or anything similar. These organizations are minuscule and virtually powerless anyway. When it comes to political power and social influence they are like comparing a mosquito to an elephant compared to feminist establishments.
As for my identity. You have to understand that I would look pathetic at best if my identity got publicized. I could be even possibly get cancelled. I work in an industry where the employees are 80 to 90% on the left. It’s complete bullshit but I have to be careful what i say.
Also a feminist can go public with her beliefs and just as long she as least semi attractive there will always be someone out there who will want to date her. If I went public with mine I would again look pathetic and it would lower my dating viability even more (even if I am attractive).
Anyway I again appreciate you taking a step back.
Also I am a moderate conservative. I was never hung ho on Trump but my decision to vote for him really came down to policy vs. personality.
s I fully understand and while I fully appreciate your situation, my personal beliefs are that my convictions are not to be mollified over a job. I realize not everyone has that luxury but its why I do I clue my image and name. I strongly believe everything I post and I want to own up to them.
I won't always agree with everyone, but I can try and listen when I dont agree with them and see if I can find common ground.
I know others feel differently but I have never found myself attractive in the slightest. I also acknowledge beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I also know finding dates has been incredibly hard given my situation and age. I still am going to stand behind my beliefs.
I will always choose a civil debate over a heated one. So np at all!
I myself am a centrist who has both liberal and conservative beliefs. Both sides think I'm part of the other with some of the stuff I believe in. It's cool. I dont tend to judge much though I'm not immune to it.
i am going to DM you two recent questions i posted anon. If you have the time and patience to read them then you see where I am coming form.
*from. Lots of typos using a mobile phone
Think it's probably a mix of all the above, although I feel most personally affected by the second. I don't think it's that I can't handle rejection in an individual sense, but when it's all I've got, while seeing people in objectively worse positions than me (be it weight, wealth, appearance etc) succeed it ends up just making me feel worthless and like giving up.
None of the advice helps and no-one will say what's wrong, for example, showed my dating profile to a female colleague and she was surprised to hear I got no matches as she thought it was good.
Would say a mix of factors online dating made dating as a whole much harder for people that didn't have the social skills to start add to that the actual numbers when it comes to who are on dating sites with it being silly like 7 guys to 1 girl women where able to become more picky (not in a bad way they simply had the choice) which lead to guys believing women as a whole will only got for a buff rich guy
Yeah, I’m sure that they have always been around, but the internet amplifies the loudest voices, and sadly for the rest of us, the loudest people are the lonely feminists, the wokesters, and the MGTOW/INCEL losers! These sad, pathetic people are likely to be the voices that woke legacy media types listen to, just so they can SAY they do!
I think they have always existed but never lived up to their "potential" shall we say, until they connected with other like minded individuals and they riled eachother up and developed this attitude and ethos.
I don't think the media and social media help either, with the ideas they project and allow to spread like wildfire.
Everywhere you look these days someone is trying to push division, and they prey on the weak minded.
The Red Pill and MGTOW has existed for decades. It has been a sentiment which could only be shared and talked about in men's barbershops or from an elder in a moment of confidence. But the internet and in particular YouTube has made it much easier for content creators to share their experiences and theories with outers and it has really resonated with men around the world. I have been MGTOW since about a decade, but it's only two years ago that I really found out about it on YouTube and the content by several mature content creators has matched up about 90 % of my life's experiences.
More than half the marriages ending in divorce, with women filing the vast majority of them. Alimony, losing half your assets and the unfair family court system. So why should any man take such a big risk? - Many men are deciding that the rewards are nowhere near the risk.
Better Bachelor is one of the better ones. His recent stuff is really good delving into some seriously heavy existential stuff.
Affirmative action programs for women.
Gender quotas for women.
The Gillette ad that tries to guilt men because bad things happen to women.
The SCUM manifesto.
The duluth model.
The dishonest , narrow minded and one-sided view of history.
The hijacking of the metoo movement by certain women, making false allegations for selfish gain and shameless self promotion.
Emma watsons "heforshe" bs backed by the UN.
Whos responsible? Insane feminist supported by multi billion global corporations , with government backing.
This was mostly a conservative and libertarian movement. It was always there, but with the Internet these pathetic men can now sound louder. I don't think it's even an actual belief or movement, it's probably just some conservative propaganda to try to get men riled up against the "evil libs".
I personally dont care what they do as long they dont spread hate spech aka dont divide men and women and stay away from minors. I heard that some of them chase barely legal girls to "train" them and make them their submissive dream hot housewifes/slaves
Women. When 90% of women find 10% of men Attractive... there's a leftover 90% of men that are unfulfilled. Examples: homelessness rate, suicide rate, and divorce rate. 75% of divorces are initiated by women. The government incentive for women to be irresponsible for housing vouchers and food stamps. It's funny how women have so many questions as if they didn't understand that nobody seriously holds them accountable
Rehearsed stats? They're simply facts sweetheart. A fact is a parameter used to dictate a constant pattern that does not change. It's not necessary to rehearse something that's true, unless you're living a lie
s Well listen here, darlin'
First of all I said rehashed not rehearsed.
Second, dear, your stats are silly. More than 10% of the male population is married so that stat is useless. Let's toss that one right out the window.
Yes women initiate more divorces but care to deep dive into why?
Are you accounting for abuse cases or neglectful partners? Do you just assume women think it's easier to just leave and start their lives over on a whim? Something is causing it so I challenge you to do the research.
I'll be back to kiss your ass with a full 3 page essay tomorrow sweetie. 😂🤣🤦
Please don't, use your search engine
I hope you read my reply, since it goes into detail about the psychology of men and why they are reacting the way they are in today's society. Anyway, the brother raised an interesting point, which I would like to correct him on. It's not 10% of men who are chosen by 90% of women. It's 20% of SINGLE AND AVAILABLE men who are chosen by 80% of women in the dating market. Married men are off the market, so you have to remember that. These guys obviously know what they are doing, which is why they are married. There's an influx of fatherless men who have no idea on how to please a woman, and end up taking female dating advice that is detrimental to their success with women. Being a "nice guy" doesn't mean shit to women, if you are an out-of-shape gamer with nothing going on for you. "Personality" is such a vague term that women tend to throw around a lot of the time. I like to emphasize on morals and characteristics, since those are more identifiable. Characteristics could range from being outgoing, cheerful, confident and driven. Morals could mean kindness, respect and reciprocity. That way it is more detectable. Also, a lot of modern women go by Zodiac signs, which tells me that they don't even know what they want and are just as lost. I definitely do believe that there's some good use for the red pill from that regard with teaching men how to demand respect and how to attract women as well, rather than having a defeatist mentality.
Also, I would like to suggest that it statistically impossible that of that all 100% of the time in that 80% of cases when women pull the plug that it's the men's fault. Even if we say that they experience abuse, financial problems, neglect and inflexibility among other things, that would still not amount to 80%. Men are also likely to experience abuse from their wives. Statistically speaking, 32% of women face domestic violence, and 25% of men across all different ethnic backgrounds on average. That's a difference of just 7%. Men are more likely to stay in a relationship and try to work on fixing things than women are. Men are also more likely to underreport cases of domestic abuse by a female partner, so that number could be higher. The reason men are not so quick to divorce their wives, is because of the fact that divorce laws heavily favor women. They also understand the importance of having 2 parents in one home, rather than having to see your mother on weekdays and your father on the weekend. Plus, there are a lot of women who divorce due to quote-on-quote "Irreconcilable Differences" which is basically a vague term for "we fell put of love", not understanding that marriage is not a Disney movie fairytale, but is about commitment and taking the vows seriously.
s @Datboi65 see? This is exactly what I was hoping for, civil debate! Thank you.
Now, let's play a bit!
I knew the 90/10 was bs and I dont even follow the pill society. I do have a friend who does and have heard these numbers ad nauseum from him. It's hard to take a person seriously who can't even get their own numbers right hence the bingo comment.
Now, let's look at an ideal marriage man vs a single pill society one. Yes, personality is diverse and intentionally vague because you don't need a full package of positive stats in any particular one of the personality defined areas to be successful. Does being well rounded help? Absolutely! Can a guy who is funny and caring, but maybe a bit unfortunate looking still find love? Again, absolutely. Generally someone who is confident is going to have the easiest time and I question the confidence levels of these pill society members.
No problem. I like to read a lot on the topic as I find it intriguing.
Anyways, I believe that women not being specific in what they ask for from a man in terms of personality ends up leaving many men confused. Personality traits aren't fixed, but and they are essentially learned behaviors that a person picks up on through their lifetime, so they can change. I will give you an example. A person can be an introvert. That's a personality trait, but it doesn't mean that they lack confidence. I myself happen to be a confidence introvert, I just tend to hang out with people when I feel like it, not because I have any social anxiety, but simply to preserve my energy.
That's just one example of many different variables that make up someone's personality, so when they say "personality", the question is which traits?
Also, I am not saying that men who happen to have more favorable personality traits but aren't the best in the looks department aren't ever to get married, but exceptions don't make rules. I believe being well-rounded is the best way to go, because everyone should aim to be the best version of themselves.
See, the difference between both structures of society "married vs pill" is that in both cases men are getting advice. In the first one, they are getting it from their father, and in the other one they are either getting that advice from women, or from male players/incels/men who have given up completely. Depending on their situation, they might take a different pill. I am all for self-improvement, so I don't believe one should just give up and feel sorry for themselves because they are short or they look like a 4 in the face. While these are not somethings you can control as a man, you can compromise by exceeding expectations in other departments and hope women will give you a chance. That's the red pill vs black pill debate. While it's true women can be very cruel about a man's height sometimes, there's not really much he can do to change that. You have to sell yourself as a product that is still valuable, despite coming short in other areas (no puns intended). As a traditional man, I would say the closest thing that resembles my ideals is the red pill, if you got rid of the polyamory aspect of it.
Also, I believe that women have to start listening more carefully to what these men are saying, rather than belittling men who complain about women and dismissing them as "whiny losers" if we are to ever reach a solution. There's a lot of whiners in the MGTOW and black pill spaces, but even they might change their stance if you give them a platform to voice their opinions.
s I'm so tired of this app not notifying me of all my replies... grrr
For as good at communication as we can be it isn't always easy to communicate feelings and wants to a guy. We can tell you it is personality but it isn't a one size fits all. I love humor, especially bad dad jokes/puns. It does it for me. If you have a great sense of humor it more than makes up for a less fortunate body/face.
I myself am an extroverted introvert. I have social anxiety but online I'm very outgoing, so I get it. Nobody said it would be easy and yes, if you are an introvert that's gonna rely more on looks because you are too timid to go show off a good personality. That's what skews their mindsets. It's not that we just prefer cute guys, it's that those guys have confidence and are willing to take more attempts while introverts will take 1 MAYBE 2 while doing so in a passive voice and wonder why it doesn't work. They then turn and blame women for their failures.
I also believe being well rounded is the best but not everyone can achieve it.
People in general can be cruel but thats how you know who to stay away from. Both men and women need to stay away from the cruel ones and not stay attracted just because they are cute.
Unfortunately the last one is the same issue I face being a feminist. A few radical minority of voices bring down the whole movement. It's up to people like you and I to show there are rational points of views and civil debate that can occur from our sides too.
So far so good. This conversation is going great.
Anyways, see, men and women tend to operate differently. Women are more subjective, so they tend to go more by the "grey areas" if you know what I mean. Men are more objective and straightforward, so we like to know exactly what is it is that we are doing wrong, so we can fix it. When you give subjective advice to a group of guys, they won't understand it. Why? Because we are more focused on identifying a problem and fixing it. When women say things like "vibing" or "good personality", it can mean a lot of different things that are not identifiable to men. That is why they prefer to be told straight-up what they should work on and fix.
As far your comment about introverts, I beg to differ. Just because I am an introvert, doesn't mean I can't approach a woman. That's absolutely false. Confidence and introversion can co-exist. Men whi cannot approach women are not awkward because they are introverts, but because they have low self-esteem. See, so many of our past Presidents have been introverts. It's a quality that can lead to great leadership, but I digress (this isn't about introverts, but red pill and mgtow).
Those socially awkward men now have to take 1 of 2 approaches. Either 1) learn to adjust to the rules of the game (red pill guys) ir b) give up on women and dating (black pill/MGTOW).
I think the biggest misconception women have is that red-pillers hate women. The red pill doesn't preach hatred of women, but it teaches men to adjust their behavior and play differently. For example, it has become very common amongst women in today's society to become career-oriented rather than family-oriented. This means there's less of a focus on marriage. That's not a traditional stance by modern women. How do red-pillers react? Well, they are still dating women, they just learned to not commit to women who are not traditional. Basically in a nutshell, a red pill man is a masculine or "alpha male" that is not traditional. They embrace the market and have learned how to adapt. Black pillers and MGTOW on the other hand complain about the market instead. As a traditional man, I take a median approach. I agree with the self-improvement aspect of the red-pill, but there's still a large part of the market that I will not be exposed to due to the fact that I want to save myself for marriage, and most women in today's society are not traditional virgins, to put it like that. This means I would probably have to keep looking for that, rejecting plenty of women until I find that person. This is not something that I can try and make myself more attractive to the market, but I cannot make the market more attractive to me if that makes sense (randomly spawning traditional women basically). So by default, because I am looking for something very specific, my options have decreased tremendously. Does that make sense? Unlike MGTOW and Black pill who don't really care about a woman's body count as much, but don't date women because they either can't get one (black pill) or are just mentally fed up with dating and marriage (MGTOW).
s Absolutely agree on the first part. Men are 'fixers' by nature. You give a problem and how to solve it and most are really good about finding A to resolve B. Unfortunately emotions and desires aren't yes/no checkboxes that way and they can vary from one day to the next. There is no single answer. Men have to take the time to actually get to know a woman they are interested in. Hell, women themselves can't always explain it in detail. Sometimes we just want empathy. Sometimes a fix isn't what we need. That confuses men greatly. If you want a funny example of this, watch White men can't jump and the scenes with Rosie Perez talking about water. It's an exaggeration but it is funny.
I didn't say introverts can't do it, I said if you are an introvert who is too timid to approach and rely on looks then thats a problem.
What bugs me most about these philosophies is how some treat women as a commodity while complaining that women do this to men. Maybe if we understand that the other side is a person and not a sexy body/paycheck we'd find a way to cut through these battle of the sexes BS.
Unfortunately, men aren't mind-readers. It is not really our job to understand a woman's emotions, because that is probably more complicated than astro physics. What I have found works for a lot of men is that a man should be assertive (very important), but still be a good listener. Being assertive is a personality trait that is associated with dominance, and dominance is associated with confidence in men. Being attentive and a great listener means you pay attention to what they say, which can come in handy if you are planning a surprise about something they said they wanted when they met you for example.
Another thing that perplexes a lot of men is the concept of "having good chemistry" which I believe is total bs. Allow me to explain. Women go by chemistry and vibes, but I believe that technically you connect with most people if they are willing to partake in a conversation. I generally have an easy time talking to strangers about very random stuff, but that's because I like to be informed about different topics as I believe it makes a person more interesting. I believe the phrase of "we didn't connect" or "we didn't have great chemistry" is used as an excuse when both parties are either not interested enough to break the ice, or are both very awkward at maintaining the flow of a conversation. That's the straightforward answer.
Also, introverts don't usually rely on looks, because women rarely ever approach men. Even the most introverted guy out there understands that they have to initiate contact in order to get in a relationship.
Finally, the reason I believe men and women started seeing each other as sex object is due to sexual liberation. I come from a family where both my parents are still together, 27 years later this June. They are religious and traditional. That element has been lost in today's society, due to sexual liberation and hook up culture and the rise of pornography. It has absolutely destroyed society in many different ways. While I have already addressed what MGTOW are about, I also believe 2nd and 3rd wave feminism have are to blame for the sexualization of society. Before you say that I am against women's rights to sleep around, I actually believe that men should also not be allowed to do so as well. But if women are the gatekeepers to intimacy, men will not be able to sleep with women if women do not allow it (we are talking about both parties consenting to each other). Having kids before marriage was looked down upon in the early days, but now it's the norm. The rise of tiktok as a platform that sexualizes teenagers is disgusting, twitch female streamers basically showing their body, only fans and so on are only symptoms of what I believe is a bigger problem. Young men do not sell their feet pics online, so it's a one-dimensional issue. I am all for accountability, I think weak men should also stop buying subscriptions and feet pics, but as long as there is a market, there will be customers. It seems like neither side wants to listen sometimes, so all I want to do is just go live in a random uninhabited island somewhere in the pacific...
s Nobody is asking you to read minds but reading body language isn't outside the realm of possibility. Men who are actually old at this have an easier time talking with women as they know where a conversation is going. This is a trait everyone should learn.
Being assertive isn't bad but dictating what I should do instead of having a discussion as to what I might be able to do is a nuance some guys can't figure out.
"Just leave him if you aren't happy"
It's way easier said than done. This is why I tell people to research further into why women initiate divorces. That is NOT easy to do. We are emotionally invested as is our nature.
I do want to comment about you wanting to talk to strangers about random things just to learn. Omg you are like a boy version of me. I do this same exact thing! (Sorry but of a side track but I GREATLY appreciate those out there who do it)
They do rely on looks because they usually don't have the emotional/mental energy to approach confidently and we can see that. If they look nervous/uninterested to be there then why should we want to?
And finally no, sex objects were around long before liberation. It just maybe wasn't as celebrated in the past or accepted, but we have always seen one another as sexual objects there are just other factors in play like personal security and personality as well. We were definitely more repressed but prostitution has been around forever even during religious times of every religion known to man.
People should be allowed to use their bodies however they would like. Ultimately they pay the costs whether they are the most chaste person alive or a harlot.
I agree with the sexualization of any minor to be sick. I hate buying clothes for my daughter and seeing how much worse it has become since I was little.
This is why I believe that communication is one of the biggest reasons of why marriage fails, or lack thereof. It goes back to the original point. See, women do not communicate with men why they might be upset at them, and then divorce them for "not being happy anymore". A man can be good to his wife, supportive and provide her security and stability, and still get left because after all of that she is not happy. This goes back to the "nice guys finish last" argument. A lot of what men do in today's society is unfortunately taken for granted. Paying the bills is expected, even though there are people who are homeless and don't have a rood over their head. Dates are taken for granted, when there are people out there that cannot eat. What we do is basic for survival, but it is important, and unfortunately it is no longer good enough. I am not complaining at all, I am stating the obvious.
I want to emphasize that even though prostitution has always existed, it was looked down upon. The truth of the matter is, we can never 100% get rid of sexual activity, but we have to make it socially unacceptable so more marriages can occur. Back in the day, a lot of the marriages were "Shotgun marriages" were men were literally forced to commit to a woman if they get her pregnant (not legally, but socially since out-of-wedlock births were looked down upon). Now they can leave at any time they want with no consequences. Also, women can now have sex with multiple men, get pregnant and not know which one is the father. How is any of this good for society?
Also, I'm not gonna pretend that objectification of women has not existed from before. However, it was very mild compared to what we have today. You have women selling feet pics to pay for their college fund. Wouldn't you call that objectification? Cosplays and all kind of weird fantasies that weak men pay their hard earned money for? It is really pathetic. On the other hand, the women who are more sexual have become more bold and have started to do reverse objectification (of men). Now you see women talking about the size of a man's downstairs area, sexual objectification of men of different ethnicities and etc. Would you say that this has also existed from before? Probably not, but even if it did, now it has become more mainstream, which is when it can do more damage.
I don't believe in absolutes. I don't think we can 100% prevent something, but I would try and make a difference, rather than live in a society where hook up culture is mainstream.
s I think we need to clarify.
Women do not communicate with men *in a way men would want them to so they understand* which can lead to miscommunication. Problem is, we don't want to have to explain to men like they are 5. We need men to have an emotional connection so it doesn't have to be explained.
The reason marriage rates are down are not because of sexual promiscuity, it's financial. Most millennials now want to be self sufficient before settling in although they will cohabitate. I already did a question and research into that one.
You'll not get me to bend on the sexual satisfaction or objectification. We only get one life. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, then let their freak flags fly.
See, men like to use logic and reasoning. Reading someone's emotions doesn't sound as logical as that person telling you how they feel. Relationships are about two adults coming together. Men assume that women are also capable of logical thinking, but modern women just choose not to. You don't have to explain anything to anyone "as though they are 5" , just tell them what behavior of theirs upset you, why it upset you and that you wish they do not repeat it again. Done. It's actually that simple.
Actually I am Gen z, so I know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to this generation. The idea of "having fun" in your 20s and "yolo" is exactly what ruined marriage. More people care about getting off than about searching for someone to build a life with, and women nowadays give their prime youthful years to f boys and players, but want to settle down with a provider when they are older. Men who are providers don't like women with high body count. Is it a double standard? Yeah. Do men care? No. I will tell you what they don't care. A player is usually an alpha male, and you imagine what these guys do to women. After she's done getting railed, she's ready to "settle", but would probably cheat on her guy with a player again if the opportunity presents itself. Pay attention, this is NOT ALL WOMEN, because I don't believe in absolutes, but a good enough number of modern women that it is noticeable. There's a name for thus, it's called "alpha f**ks vs beta bucks" (excuse the language).
Now, the reason why a player is seen as a stud, but a girl that sleeps around is seen as easy is simple. Men offer, women receive. The top dating coaches have a closing percentage of 10%, so they get rejected by 9 girls out of 10. To get a high number of girls basically means you ask an even bigger pool of women, get rejected and don't let it faze you. This is why red pill preaches having an "abundance mindset". Getting women takes effort, getting men for hookups doesn't really mean much. You cannot convince me that if a girl can make money selling her feet pics online that she will be rejected by a ground of guys most of the time.
Finally, I disagree either your last point. Like I said, I will maintain my stance. I believe it's wrong for both men and women to sleep around in their youth, when instead they should be focused on finding someone that fits their ideals. You're more individualistic, I'm more community-oriented, so that's why. There nothing either of us will get the other to accept in this situation.
The biggest reasons are:
1) Government heavily favors women in the court system when it comes to divorces and children. It’s extremely risky for men to get married.
2) New feminist wave is extremely misandrist. It’s no longer about equal rights, but more an attack on men.
3) Lots of innocent men have been accused of rape, and have had their lives ruined. It’s like playing with fire when dealing with women you don’t know.
4) The new age dating and promiscuity has destroyed chivalry. Men have a hard time loving and respecting a woman who don’t respect themselves, leading to men “giving up” and just trying to screw as many women as possible instead of looking for true love.
5) Men have a natural instinct to love, provide, and protect. Society has said these are misogynistic qualities. If you take away these natural instincts, you basically destroy the man.
This is just some of my opinions.
They've always existed, the internet just gives them a way to congregate easier. It's sad because those communities have become extremely toxic.
I think there's tremendous value in men having spaces to talk about men's issues and how improve themselves without women trying to get involved. The problem is that the channels got away from men's improvement and is no focused on complaining about women.
It's funny how all women have this image in thier head that mgtow are men who just get rejected by women. Let me tell you the vast majority of mgtow are men who got fucked financially by divorce court, another large chunk of us are men who watched divorce fuck our male family members and freinds and were smart enough to say fuck that to marriage.
so let me tell you ladies mgtow is not the fault of men, you caused it through your bad behavior. Contrary to how T. V and other media portray men, we aren't stupid. We are quite capable of analyzing a situation and adapting. And mgtow is our adaptation of how our society structures It's laws and how women behave.
Who knows...
All I know is that MGTOW has devolved (or at least is devolving) into a weird group for men to share their disdain for women, similar to how certain Feminists have turned their movement into borderline misandry.
Basically: "How many things can I blame on men/women before thinking about what I might be doing wrong?"
Modern feminism and the unfair laws. That said MGTOW is a passive protest. It mostly a threat to the government and female dreams. The last because the odds to get what they want goes down the drain. The lack of female responsibility and seeing the consequences in a large picture is basically none existant.
Men can't fix a problem they are excluded from fixing.
I'm not sure what 'societies' you're on about. But as far as MGTOW as a general idea, I think that can be attributed to a combination of 2 factors, 1) a bunch of dudes realizing what they get out of relationships with women amounts to a lot less than they put into those relationships, and 2) some dudes admitting it on the internet, and lots more just agreeing with the notion.
I had to look up what it was , Id never heard of it.
I dont think its any of those answers , but a core group of individuals who now have a platform , and probably their major grievance comes from loss of control and entitlement , but I dont think your choices there represent the answers.
These doctors who are pill happy and prescribe lots of medications I know I'm one of the patients
s "Yeah doc, I need some black and red pills as the blue ones aren't working for me in this society."
@ez-bri-z Yes, I do agree with you
It doesn't matter. As with all conflicts, who started the war is irrelevant. What is relevant is that war is upon us and only those ideals worthy of survival will prevail. The true strength of MGTOW/pill is that men are more than capable of surviving on their own. In fact, they prosper quite well in these conditions. Women claim to do the same, so now we'll see if their bark is as big as their bite.
Morons started it, to keep people hating each other.
Remember 1980s and 1990s racialism was rare. Then a certain person became president and brought USA back to the civil war
Women abusing men with divorce and stealing their earned assets, along with women stealing men's children and turning them against their fathers. Too many false accusations likely contributed to it as well.
Those are the only legitimate reasons I can think of.
Mix of A and B. MGTOW is basically the male version of contemporary feminism, which is mostly made up of women who just want to bitch about men. From what I've seen of MGTOW, they do the same shit just against women instead of men. That said women do have way higher standards than they did back then, whereas the standards men have really haven't changed... hence why I'm saying it's a mix.
I think they always were there but the internet made them much worse
Judging by your poll options which have nothing to do with mgtow, it’s clear you don’t know what it means, who is a part of it, what it actually is, and what it strives to accomplish.
I’ll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with sex.
As a 5'5 guy, I'm involuntarily made for the pill communities. Women just generally have an overwhelming height requirement, and I was too short to make the cut.
I don't see the problem of a woman being 5'10, but it's always the 5'10 woman that has a problem with me being 5'5.
Wow, my respect. I wish more women thought like you.
Thank you so much, I agree whole heartedly.
There's a lot of reasons but I think a big part is media and this new wave feminism. It's convincing women to overvalue themselves and set unrealistic expectations.
Probably both high standards because of social media and dating apps which made 90% of men sexless and miserable. But redpill is a stupid ideology anyway along with bluepill. Reality is a lot darker than that
A bit of A but also a lot of far right demagogues stoking their frustrations and hatred making it far worse. Like those in the MRA movement
Seems a lot of these MGTOW guys are just young guys who have trouble getting a girlfriend or just older guys who maybe were treated badly by an ex.
Can you imagine the situation a lot of guy's find themselves through the actions of a cold ex. Divorce, being cheated on, losing contact with their kids, losing their family home, having half of everything they earned through years of work taken to be given to the person that betrayed them, forced to pay alimony to support their bitch ex, child support for kids they don't get to see, false allegations made against them, jail time if the lose their job and can't pay alimony and child support and to top off being replaced in your ex's life and kids life by another man or a revolving door of wood be step fathers. The legal system is very gender bias against men.
Usually MGTOW is just a phase and these guys either need time to heal or find a girlfriend. Also a lot of these Incel guys and mgtow guys are raised by single mom's, same with women porn stars and other sex workers.
@ragooo8 right we can acknowledge there are real problems especially in the courts... but these men are being led astray by far right groups taking the opportunity to basically turn them into white supremacists just about...
Women who think men should be held responsible for everything wrong in this society, who blame them constantly, and those women who think men owe them something.
The legal system. Literally.
There has always been natural bachelors. Certainly a lot of those today are MGTOW, nichola tesla surely would have been.
But most aren't natural bachelors, most were produced by lawfare and court abuse facilitated by feminist laws that completely disrespect the legal principle of parity.
I hate taking pills but it is better than getting a shot.
Both men and women.
However men were not able to deal with their situations or they put themselves at risk (foolishly or unknowingly or whatever). And so they resort to MGTOW and hating women.
We are all to blame. Human beings make or break the world.
Those individuals have always existed. It's everybody's fault but their own.
I’d say all the above. I like your cosplay one, that sums up a lot of what they do.
I have NO idea what either of those are... lol I am old
You most definitely should not conflate the red pill with MGTOW. Just because some members of MGTOW refer to the red pill doesn't mean they're similar things.
Why the fuck do dumb old women even care? Like who cares, yet old hags care why? Because they damaged goods? So stupid.
s I retract my previous statement and thank you for the apology. I apologize as well.
I asked because I love learning but I have a quixotic mission to see if I can help change people's minds on some things and I can't do that unless I learn more about them. I decided I wanted to do this one next. Maybe I can help some of them change their mind and realize that not all feminists hate men and that we can care about them just as much. I want to have civil discussions and make inroads where others have stopped trying. If I can reach even one or two then I can be that much happier especially when sometimes that happiness is hard to find for myself.
Hopefully that answers the why I want to know.
Women having higher standards.(B)
Men in todays age ARE PATHETIC
You can check out Some questions I’ve made about this in my page..
Communicating on the phone, versus face to face.
The phone should be mostly for arranging dates.
s He ended up confessing to a crime though. Are you wanting to do the same?
He did that. The operative part was the title of that clip. If you want to know about MGTOW get off the internet and go visit places where guys hang out with guys and talk to them. You may not like what most of them have to say, but you WILL have a better understanding of MGTOW! Now, don't confuse me as being MGTOW, because I AM NOT! Right now I have a very beautiful lady in her early 40s sitting beside me. I just understand that there are thousands upon thousands of men out there that are quite LITERALLY scared off from making a commitment. Life is just simpler for them.
Fucking Apple and they're iPhone. Before social media, freaks and weirdos had to go outside and become interesting and hook up.
MGTOW is stupid all titles are dumb. Just need common sense.
They are just the counterpart to modern feminists, and a reaction to our increasingly gynocentric society.
Everyday there is this crap on here about incels, red pills femcels , MGTOW, and the like. It makes this site toxic with divisions.
women and the satanic government
and the fallen angels
but mostly women
cause it is still a choice on the part of women
good luck inside the snake
ladies
it won't be fun
"modern" feminism and the social toxicity it creates.
I voted C, but I believe it's A and C.
Men (and the occasional woman) who have problems with the marriage institution, how feminism has affected society as a whole and women's standards.
It's honestly the women most of these guys who get rejected are hot asf I don't know why they reject hot ass guys
Women exposed their own nature and men are finally waking up, as it should be.
100%. Not even online. In real life boys see their own mothers as b*tches to their fathers/step dads.
@RandomGuy1030 yes, it's really sad.
@Gorge95 yes. Marriage doesn't bring any benefits to a man.
@Gorge95 The law in general isn't on men's side most of the time.
You can also add your opinion below!
Holidays 
Girl's Behavior 
Guy's Behavior 
Flirting 
Dating 
Relationships 
Fashion & Beauty 
Health & Fitness 
Marriage & Weddings 
Shopping & Gifts 
Technology & Internet 
Break Up & Divorce 
Education & Career 
Entertainment & Arts 
Family & Friends 
Food & Beverage 
Hobbies & Leisure 
Other 
Religion & Spirituality 
Society & Politics 
Sports 
Travel 
Trending & News 
Most Helpful Opinions