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Now that abortions are getting banned do you support funding to help mothers and children? (Page 2)
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Women could always... I don't know... just... not get pregnant until they're ready to have kids. I mean its not like we don't have 37 different forms of birth control and good ole fashioned keeping yer legs closed until your ready to start a family.
Or men could just... I don't know... just... just not get a woman pregnant until she is ready to have a kid if she ever want's one. There is less risk getting a reversible vasectomy than taking birth control. Not to mention some state are trying to ban certain birth control limiting the options.
Ohh I agree but the difference is women have all the options for birth control men don't. We get 2 condoms which often fail and abstinence.
"We get 2 condoms which often fail "
then you suck at using condoms correctly www.webmd.com/.../birth-control-condoms
There is birthcontol for men but that means you would heave to deal with basically the same side effects that woman have to. Or you could get a vasectomy, with has hardly any recovery time... or learn how to wear a condom properly.
Ohh please deign to enlighten my ignorant self. Tell me any birth control that men have that is temporary. And a vasectomy as far as I know isn't reversible. Granted I haven't looked into one in about 7 years so ill need to check again on that 1
@captain_voidwalker so you're ok if all the risk and responsibility falls on the woman and none of it on the man..
Abstinence...
Vasectomies... which have over a 95% reversal rate... you're almost 40, you planning on having more kids?
They are working of several trials for birth control pills or shots for men, you could join one of those.
Or figure out how to properly use a condom...
Trials means they aren't widely available nor does it make them effective hence why they are conducting trials. No I don't plan on having kids but I also don't plan on having any more sex in my life, to much work for so little a reward.
And I already listed abstinence.
Also what makes you think men weren't held responsible for children they father, child support has been around since the 1800, s.
Oh because throwing money at your offspring is all it takes to be a responsible parent...…
Just about as responsible as having sex with out using birth control.
My son was conceived because my birth control failed... as did my emergency contraceptive. Most abortions that take place are because the birth control method used, failed.
Abortion is birth control is just the same as murder to me. But it sounds like you didn't abort your son even though your intention wasn't to get pregnant so I give you points for that. Even still adoption is a far better alternative to just strait up killing an unborn child.
Now I'm sure these 2 arguments are coming next, bieng rape and if the woman's life is endangered so ill hit those up right quick.
In the case of rape yes you allow an abortion , but you charge the woman's rapist with murder of the child as well as rape.
In the case of medical necessity to spare the woman's life you do allow for abortion if and only if all other options have failed.
A fetus isn't a child any more than a liver is a human being
Most abortions are naturally occurring anyways and the grand majority of medical abortions are performed with a pill...
And thats where you lose me. A fetus is a human bieng to me. And it also has rights that need to be considered.
Murder is defined as the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being. An embryo or non viable fetus is not a human being.
No more than an egg or a sperm is considered a human being.
Yes, exactly! Because we all know that contraceptives are 100% efficient! And keeping your legs closed is universally known to work on rape scenarios! It's insane, it's like women who get abortions find it pleasurble! Because that's what it is really. Getting drugs (in the early stages) that basically make your body react as it is going in to premature labor (which is we all know women love!) or in later stages, the drugs AND equipment going into you body removing the fetus, such joy!
In case anyone mistook this as anything else, it's sarcasm. As someone who had to have Ana medical abortion (because the fetus died but my body did not expell it) I can fucking tell you it's not something you go though unless you have to. Sit the fuck down. You are so uneducated it is ridiculous.
Fair enough on the embryo but I'll say this, we declare someone dead when thier heart stops beating, by proxy then we should consider someone alive when the heart starts beating. So after the unborn child has a heart beat it is by medical definition alive. And if you want to use viability as an argument technically children aren't viable by themselves until around age 10 or 11 they depend upon thier parents for good and shelter. So that argument is pretty moot in my book we certainly aren't considering killing 9 year olds an abortion its murder. Same difference when its in utero.
Actually we can keep a hearth beating if we want to. The therm brain dead is something I'm sure you're familiar with and it has very little to do with the hearth since it is to different parts of the nervous system.
Then again, "we" are willing to take life's we don't see fit to excisit anymore (death penalty, war, etc) so why are those life less then one who has never really been?
If you think you can just keep defribulating a heart over and over again to keep it beating you can't. And bieng brain dead dosent make some one legally dead. As for the death penalty odds are someone did something very heinous to get sentenced to death. As for war well the world isn't perfect and sometimes a nation has to use force to acquire what it needs. To quote from starship troopers "violence is the Supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived"
No not necessarily, a person can be considered brain dead even if their heart is still beating. At 6 weeks gestation a heartbeat could be detected but if she were to spontaneously abort, the fetus would be no bigger than a blood clot the size of a small grape...
You could keep a body on life support... for a long time even though they are in every other sense of the word dead... that fetus isn't alive, it is a part of the woman who is actually living.
But the fetus much like the comatose patient has ghe potential to be alive hence why if you were to yank that comatose person off life support it's considered murder. I consider killing the potential human child also murder.
If you follow that logic then every menstrual cycle and a miscarriage is a manslaughter, and every time a man ejaculates with out the intention of reproducing is murder.
No because without fertilization occurring neither has the potential to become a living human bieng. Thats the difference it might look like a clump of cells but a zygote is a human bieng in the making
But preventing feralization prevents that potential, and by what you said about the potential for life
I never said blocking potential was wrong. I said stopping it once it was started was wrong. You can mental gymnastic around this all you want but abortion is murdering children any way you slice it
Well a fetus isn't a child, it has the potential to become a child, just as an egg or sperm does.
You wouldn't call a fertilized chicken egg a chicken
@Subarugirl "You wouldn't call a fertilized chicken egg a chicken"
I'd call that 'yummy' personally.
sorry proceed to own him more lol
I call a fetus a child and the legal system does as well. If I drive drunk I slam into a pregnant woman and kill her and her unborn "child" i get charged with double homicide
If that were true, then why can't you claim it on your taxes, or take out a life insurance policy on it... if the legal system considered an embryo a human being than disposing of the embryos created during the IVF process would be considered murder...… smoking or drinking during pregnancy would be considered child abuse and miscarriages could be prosecuted as man slaughter...… so no, the answer to that would be that the legal system does not consider and embryo or fetus to be a child
You can call the earth flat, but it doesn't change the fact
Like I said you can mental gymnastics over and over but abortion is murder. You are intentionally killing an unborn child. Its not like a miscarriage thats a medical problem, it's not like a fertilized chicken egg because we eat adult chickens for food. You are ENDING a human life intentionally for no other reason than your own convenience.
" Its not like a miscarriage thats a medical problem, "
and yet they are making and arresting women for miscarriages too. www.msn.com/.../ar-AAPHwNP
Do you know what the medical term for a miscarriage is? It’s called a spontaneous abortion.
It is not a life, because to be alive you must be able to sustain life independently… and a fetus does not have that capability until about 24 weeks, and that is with medical intervention. The grand majority of abortions are preformed with medication, and essentially induces a miscarriage.
How ever for the sake of your argument, let’s say another person would die unless they used your organs to sustain their life… if you refused them the use of your organs, blood, or body.. is that murder too? Or do you believe in bodily autonomy unless it applies to women?
No because taking someone's organs and killing the donor is not the same as, and I'll say it again, intentionally killing an unborn child. Not accidentally killing it, not having a medical problem that results in a miscarriage or spontaneous abortion (by the way we don't call it that in texas ita just called a miscarriage in medical terms)
It's making a conscious decision to end an unborn child. And that in my book makes someone a murderer.
And for the person above did you even read the article you just proved my fucking point. The woman in that article took drugs and it resulted in the death of her unborn child. To legally we do consider unborn children as alive.
Any way you slice this shit abortion is murder and if your ok with that frankly God help your soul is all I can say.
ok so once a child is born do you care about it anymore? would you support healthcare for the child? helping it live a healthy life?
For children absolutely i give to multiple charities per year that do exactly that.
actually it's making the conscious choice to not put your heath or body at risk... That is rich considering God killed his own baby and the fact that there is quite literally an abortion ritual laid out in the old testament that priests would preform.
Well you can make that choice prior to getting pregnant which was my beginning point in the first place
And spoken like a person who fails to understand Christianity. Jesus chose to come down to earth and bear the weight of humanitys sins. And I'm no super religious but I do believe we have a soul and whilst the particulars of what happens after we die have some room for interpretation I know in all religions in civilized society tend to frown on killing children, and the religions that practiced child sacrifices were depraved and died out.
On the point of Christianity... You do know that abortion does occur in the Bible? Sanctioned one's...
Prove it
Numbers 5:27 – Abortion Is Okay, If The Mom Doesn’t Approve
“If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”
Yeah, the above, and there actually are a couple of more examples.
Pretty sure that part about her becoming a curse means it's not approved of.
Actually the verse talks about how if a man suspects his wife of infidelity with out any proof he can take her to a priest who will perform a ritual to drink the bitter waters and if she is pregnant, the ritual would cause an abortion...
The bible even talks about the punishment for killing another person. If a man kills another man the punishment is death but if a man causes a woman to lose her pregnancy his is only fined. Old testament law mandated a life for a life, but an unborn fetus was categorized more so like destruction of property and only warranted a fine.
The bible also says that life begins at first breath...
Yes but we don't live in old testament times I'd like to think we've become civilized enough to not murder unborn children.
lol moving the goal posts...
My goal post never moved, I started out saying abortion is murder and I'm still saying it. Outside of the context of abortion , the law considers unborn children alive. I wonder why q human life starts to mean nothing once it inconveniences a woman to you people.
im talking about you moving the goal posts on abortion being allowed in the bible bro pay attention lmao.
It still dosent say its ok it said the woman was cursed for aborting. And even if it didn't warrant a death penalty it still considered a man causing a miscarriage a crime punishable with a fine.
Where your getting the idea it says its ok just kill babies all day im not sure?
reverbpress.com/religion/bible-supports-abortion/
here read this ^^
"Earlier in Numbers, it’s stated that, if a man suspects his wife of sleeping with another man, he may bring her to a priest who will create some sort of magic potion with water and dirt. The woman is then made to drink said magic potion. If she has not cheated on her husband, nothing will happen.
If the woman has cheated and is carrying another man’s child, though, the mystical dirt water — we can call it magic mud — will cause her to immediately miscarry. This is a directive coming straight from God himself to Moses. So even if pro-lifers can dodge all these other verses, they can’t deny that this one essentially says, “Abortion is okay as long as it’s forced upon a woman, against her will, for cheating on her husband.”
Yeah… that’s way more acceptable than what pro-choice advocates are going for…"
Back in those times adultery was a serious crime and the woman would likely be killed anyway. That dosen't mean the Bible approves abortion this is more an example of how seriously infidelity was taken back in a isn't times.
Your comparing ancient society's to modern ones its not a fair comparison.
see there you go buddy moving the goal posts first its 'abortion isn't allowed in the bible.' then its 'oh well the old testament doesn't matter' now its 'of well it was just different back in those days'
no this was allowed by GOD himself. even if the historical context is different, god who is supposed to be infallible still okayed this.
and another thing abortion isn't mentioned AT ALL in the new testament. why didn't they bother mentioning it if it was THAT important? See this stuff proves you religious fascists are just making shit up to suit your agenda. thats all this is bro. You can't use scripture to justify your anti abortion stance because its NOT in there.
That is the only time the bible comes remotely close to mentioning abortion... apart for that it explicitly states that life begins at first breath not conception.
If the law considered a fetus alive than you would be able to claim it on your taxes or take a life insurance policy out on it... but the law doesn't allow you to do either of those things
When the Bible was written conception wasn't understood. Medical science has come a looking way since Jesus walked the earth. And how did I end up having to play bibles advocate im not even religious. I just happen to think a human life even an unborn one has value and thankfully most of the rest of the nation agrees with me. If that makes me a woman hater or a bigot or an idiot or whatever er insult you want to hurl at me whatever. Still means I'm better than a child murderer or someone who supports them.
" Still means I'm better than a child murderer or someone who supports them. "
no you aren't you woman hater you.
Sure whatever you say child murderer
Sounds more like you want to control women's bodies... and that you care more about a clump of cells no bigger than a clot of period blood than the lives of women would be forced to give birth at the risk of her heath and even her life.
@Subarugirl oh totally, he just wants a way to justify 'slut shaming' women basically. its more about that then the actual baby.
I sure do because one day that clump of cells can be a living human bieng and the woman had a choice over her body before that clump of cells was conceived
@Still-alive If he cared about children hed be adopting them, or at least fostering then and doing something about the thousands of children disappearing from the foster care system … he's not pro life he's pro forced birth... or pro fetus at the very best
You mean like the hours I volunteer at a children's hospital and the 45 to 60 grand per year my business donates to Scottish rite.
You just wanna murder children because taking a pill or a shot is to much of an inconvenience to you
if a guy bragged to you about how many girls he's had sex with would you say anything back to him?
If he's practicing safe sex not realy but if he got a girl pregnant he is absolutely responsible for those children and should be made to provide for them
Hey genius... my son was conceived because the shot and the morning after pill failed...
@Still-alive no he wouldn't and if he knocked her up he would still find a way to blame the woman for where the man decided to ejaculate. He cares more about a fetus than theactual children being impregnated.
And whats you point sex comes with risks even safe sex. You accept those risks by engaging in it. Not wanting a child dosen't absolve you of the responsibility of taking care of one
you know justice thomas mentioned the scotus decision allowed contraceptives in the roe v wade decision? he wants to revoke that as well... so soon contraceptives will be illegal in some states too...![Now that abortions are getting banned do you support funding to help mothers and children?]()
Is my name justice Thomas. I have no problem with contraceptives, and the sipream court dosentvhave the authority to outlaw anything. They at most can allow the state legislatures to craft regulations on such things. That's all. Overturning roe didn't make abortion illegal it gave that decision back to the states
". I have no problem with contraceptives, and the sipream court dosentvhave the authority to outlaw anything. "
oh ok cool. so we can go ahead and ignore the roe v wade being revoked decision then. i've been advocating for states ignoring that myself actually. glad you agree with me ;)
Thats absolutely fine. I prefer a pro life state so I live in one if you want pro choice I might not agree with it but if the state you live in allows it thats thier business not mine
They are not banned. And you can buy abortion pills online.
Not for long.
Next targets are abortion pills. ability to cross state lines, and then a national ban. This is what Republican lawmakers are aiming for now that Roe was successfully reversed.
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
Well the Democrats are talking about putting abortion clinics at military bases and even national parks. So that'll solve that problem.
"Well the Democrats are talking about putting abortion clinics at military bases and even national parks. So that'll solve that problem."
That's solving the problem? Really?
Do you have a better idea?
My better idea is to trust individuals with choices for their own bodies instead of forcing America to become a breeding farm.
When will your plan take effect?
Pro-life and support the extra funding. I would also support better funding for orphanages and adoptions.
Abortions aren't being banned. Which State Park s banning them? Not all States!
*not state park
just state
Half of them. 26 states.
Right now abortions are banned in 12 states. Another 12 are in the works. Lawmakers are not done. Next on the agenda is birth control, ability to cross state lines, and then finally a national ban where no states are allowed to give them. This is what Republican lawmakers are aiming for now that Roe was successfully reversed.
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
Stop spreading untruths about this. How do you know this is the plan? One person says it, then another and another when it's not even true.
They will still have them it said "half the nation" not all States! Besides I don't have a dog in this fight so I am leaving.
You don't listen to Republicans. I know this because you'd know what laws they say they're implementing.
I’m pro choice and I do support this but there is a third alternative: girls who get pregnant and can’t get an abortion or don’t want to get one but also can’t or don’t want to raise their baby can give them up for adoption.
Thats their husbands responsibility.
If the husband isn't around for whatever reason, you're all strong and independent wahmen who dont need no man or the government for that matter because why should other mens taxes be used to support you?
Or just move to California. A state so woke on abortions, they abort your kid even after birth
You don't understand why it's happening.
They only want white woman to not get abortions. If they legal could mandate and say POC can get as many as they want they would.
Europe has a program where they pay white woman to have kids. They can't do that here.
Here my evidence its about white births
I haven’t ever heard about this before. Somehow I feel a bit less involved in this as a woman now because I am a POC. However that doesn’t make me less interested. I would love to read more about what you’re bringing up here.
There's a book I haven't read all the way through. I think called birth dearth 1987
But they wanted to pay white women to gave kids. But they would also be forced to pay POC. So they didn't do it.
Look at the white dude that shot the black people in Buffalo he was concerned about white replacement as well. This is what a lot them talk about in chat forum
Allowing states the freedom to make their own laws isn’t about targeting minorities. In contrast The Negro Project (Planned Parenthood Federation of America) was specifically designed to target minorities. Democrats strongly support that organization. You should learn a little history so you don’t look like a retard. Planned Parenthood directly targeted people with the help of Democrats and it still does. It lead to a brainwashing of an entire generation which negatively impacted ethics in the views of many White people. So, some White people did something about it. What they (the GOP) are doing is reversing that trend and reestablishing local ethics by rebuilding their own communities. You can as well make similar decisions in your own community. States rights allows people to sort out their own affairs. If you are wicked as Christians would view you, then you will gravitate toward laws that support things like The Negro Project. That will impact migration of your group to territories that favor your philosophy. As the Christians put it: The wheat when first thrashed lies in one heap with chaff and straw, and is after winnowed to separate it; so the faithful are mixed up in one Church with the unfaithful; but persecution comes as a wind, that, tossed by Christ's fan, they whose hearts were separate before, may be also now separated in place. Will that save White lives? Sure, according to abortion statistics it will save 359,972 “White Lives” per year. Apparently you have a problem with White people living. It shows your strong racist convictions. You probably go out and scream Black Lives Matter, but when White people save their own children, all the sudden you have a problem with it?
I believe both groups are after black people.
According to the poll, 2/3 of all people support extra funding for women and children. From both sides. I think that's a great consensus and place of common ground where we can work together!
Fuck no. I work hard for my money. I'm a Republican and if you can't afford to raise the baby, give it up for our shitty adoption system but y'all ain't gonna kill it. It's not my problem if you're poor and stupid, or that the kid will bounce from home to home and probably end up a criminal. I'm not the one who got pregnant! I don't care if the kid has a fucked up life, it had a right to be born into it even though you were too fucking stupid and got preggo!
Oh the empathy in this one...
@Pizaz This one is a troll who isn't worth the effort. Let him gather enough rope and he'll hang himself.
@NovaCourier Troll? No, just your basic Trump supporting, USA loving Republican!
You literally said you don't care if children have a terrible life (through no fault of their own) because their parents were irresponsible. In other words, you insist that the child has a right to be born, but then don't care about the child once it is born. How is that Pro-life?
If you were even remotely patriotic, you would care about the future of your own country's children. If, as you say, those children are likely to end up being criminals, and you don't care about what circumstances led them there, then you clearly don't care about crime in your country either. Not very "USA loving" of you. You have the attitude of a traitor. Not a patriot.
@NovaCourier Thank you for pointing that out. The post was meant to be facetious, but representative of the Republican view. T H A N K Y O U for calling them what they are - traitors, not patriots.
It's not representative of my feelings at all. Again I thank you, as a non-American citizen that you are, for calling it LIKE IT IS.
Ok, I legitimately didn't realise that the post was a facetious remark. I encounter so many extreme, anti-human decency comments from these hardliners that it honestly seemed like the real thing.
@NovaCourier It was MEANT to sound like the real thing, because it's VERY REPRESENTATIVE of real opinions here in the USA, held by many Republican citizens AND many Republican Senators and Representatives. They're disgusting individuals. It was designed to sound very real because it IS very real. These Republitarts think that way, and they believe they're not only right, but righteous for doing so.
Again, I thank you for proving the point. Any DECENT person would be, and should be, appalled by that attitude and mindset.
If you don't want children, don't have sex... That or go to Illinois where it is still legal. The states have the rights to decide if they want to be pro life or not. Illinois is accepting out of state females that want to end their pregnancy.
Keep it in you pants ANON and Rhee will not be a problem for you…
Last time I checked there's a shitload of this already. Mothers with dependent children qualify for all kinds of support. They still do.
You know every one of these policies to help families were enacted by democrats and fought against by republicans.
So what? They're still there and they're still the law.
You think these helpful policies will always be there when Republicans are fighting against every single one of them?
If people want them they'll be there because they'll elect representatives to keep them in place. If they go away it's because people don't want them. So I think it'll be fine either way.
Only 37% think abortions should be illegal. Vast majority want stricter gun control. But here we are.
Indeed. You know--what with Dems holding both houses of Congress AND the presidency, they could probably do something about that if they wanted to. . .
You know you can actually opt not to have children until you're financially able to take care of them. Preganancy isn't some random event that occurs spontaneously to women.
Nope. That's a peace offering that won't ever truly happen. Fuck that, take to the streets and get your rights back.
Are you upset that women are going to need to be mature like men and not have sex unless they're willing to accept the risk of becoming a parent?
Stop having babies out of wedlock you harlots purity isn’t the answer we need to make sex for married couples again not this gross dehumanizing hookup culture
The child was her responsibility, just as it was her choice to have sex.
If it was rape? That's different.
@Jouth why can't loser men be responsible? There are plenty of women who have a boyfriend or fiancé or even a deadbeat husband that runs away like a cowardly dog when she gets pregnant.
Actually the man is responsible for what he does with his sperm... An embryo or fetus before 21 weeks is not a child any more than blood clot or a hangnail. You wouldn't call kidney a child or a human being and until that fetus is able to sustain it's own life out side of the woman's body neither is it.
Both people are responsible.
If you choose to have sex, there are consequences to your actions.
That's like saying people who get diabetes from eating a lot of sugar shouldn't receive a prescription for insulin because there are consequences to your actions...
You are right, so if a woman gets pregnant that was the consequence of having sperm ejaculated into her vaginal canal... the doesn't mean that she should be forced into carrying a pregnancy and carrying a fetus to term against her will any more that you should be require to donate a part of your liver against your will.
@jouth - so we shouldn't provide medical care after car accidents because they should have been more responsible.
@jouth
"If it was rape? That's different."
There's no provision for rape. A woman goes to jail if she doesn't bring a rape baby to birth.
People receive prescriptions but they still pay for the medicine they were prescribed.
No one is entitled to funding.
A recent estimate says it costs $230,000 to bring up a child. I'm sure Texas will be paying women that to not have an abortion any day now.
Very interesting to see the balance between men and women on the different votes.
It's not my responsiblility to raise someone elses child. If she wanted a good future for her family, she should have secured it.