I’m confused. Wasn’t minimum wage meant to be a living wage?
Why support paying anyone less than minimum wage? I don’t think anyone working 40+ hours a week should be looked down upon and they shouldn’t be struggling to survive. These are hard working American citizens.
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(45 Plus)
6 mo
If all I'm doing is bagging groceries I shouldn't be able to buy a house with that money. That job was meant to provide low-skilled people like teenagers a place to learn job skills. Or retirees that are looking to just stay active and get some more bingo money or what have you. It isn't a career and shouldn't be treated as such.
I said other, because basically if employers want good workers they should have the incentive of having a livable wage at bare minimum. If they don't they can't expect to get the best workers or even good workers, only acceptable workers that will do the bare minimum to get the job done. Sometimes that might be all that required for some jobs, and in those situations both employer and employee will be meeting the expectations.
I am in the middle of this. You can’t stay stagnant in a position and expect to be treated the same way as someone that is constantly progressing and growing - however I do think our current wages are extremely unfair and do not equal out to the work that people end up doing
That is the most stupid entitled statement that I ever heard. No one is entitled to another human beings labor without paying a living wage. Anything below that I consider criminal and should be prosecuted.
@Kingofkings1992 Yepp. If the job you are offering is not profitable enough to you that you can exchange it for a living wage then that job should not exist. If your business can't function without jobs that can't be economically justified then your business is inefficient and should go bankrupt to make room for other businesses who actually can make it profitable. That is capitalism in action.
@Soteris so any person entering the workforce is entitled to a living wage, regardless of the type of work it is, their experience, or their skill set? Sorry, a 16-year-old bagging groceries at Publix should not be paid a living wage.. That’s not how the world works. Period.
@gorydetails On the contre my economically challenged friend. This practice of jobs paying subpar wages is bad both for the industry, country and the workers. The only one gaining anything from it is the owner who gets a free pass on being a parasite.
For what is a job worth less than a livable wage than a job that is so worthless it has to be subsidized by someone else? Its a drain on resources, in this case on the government and the people. The fact that you are trying to defend this just tells me that you want to sabotage your own nation. I would call that traitorous myself but you already call yourself a nationalist so I guess its redundant.
@Kingofkings1992 If the business can't profit of the labor of a 16 year old enough that they can pay a livable wage then that 16 year old should work for a different business which is profitable enough that they CAN support it. Allowing citizens to work subpar jobs is literally just crippling your own economy with failed businesses that does not make financial sense.
@gorydetails I literally dont care about the motive, I care about the effects on the economy. If you support such things as capitalism then you should be fucking ecstatic to nuke businesses from orbit that can't produce a profit without being subsidized. These businesses are literal parasites. Why on earth would you defend them?
@gorydetails *rolls eyes* The job of workers is literally to produce value, be it in goods or services. If the job in question can't meet the low bar of profitability then they are by definition unprofitable and by the ideology of capitalism they should fail and be replaced by another business which actually can make that job profitable.
@gorydetails don’t waste your energy on this idiot bro. People who believe ideology like his are dangerous, and they should be avoided. He’s the type of person who would support parents losing custody of their children because they didn’t get them covid vaccinated.
@Kingofkings1992 This is literally Capitalism. Are you sure you want to diss it? I mean, I am fine with trash talking Capitalism but I thought that was the foundation of you very existence as an American.
@gorydetails Nope, quit it earlier this autumn because its winter and I rather not deal with that. I got enough money that I dont need a job and only work when I personally feel bored. Jealous?
@gorydetails Loser? I am financially secure enough to decide my own life. I get to decide if or when I work. I get to decide what house I buy and live in. I get to choose what I spend my life doing, rather than burn away my midnight oil for a company that does not care about me nor would miss me if I disappeared one day.
@gorydetails *Shrugs* I guess I can't do anything but pity you then. Not only are you a sad little man but you must even insist on being wrong online on things such as what capitalism is. Actually, maybe that is why you dont have the financial ability to do the same things I do, because you dont understand capitalism?
@gorydetails Wrapping the conversation back to the actual topic we were discussing is a tangent? Dude, you went off track talking about if I had a job or not. You dont get to talk about tangents.
@gorydetails No, no, no. Lets not go on any tangents like you said. Lets laser focus on what this conversation was supposed to be, if companies refusing to pay a "living wage" is entitlement or not.
So I ask you, why should a business be entitled to employees working below a living wage?
1) You can't define living wage 2) Minimum wage jobs are for young people to get work experience. They have never been for people to support themselves or a family. If you're a grown adult and never progress past minimum wage, you are a loser. 3) When you accept a job, you are agreeing that your labor is worth the money you are being paid for it.
@gorydetails 1: Nope, its an extensive explanation of how it would work in practice. I also love how you somehow accept the concept of "minimum wage" but struggle to wrap your head around a "living wage" when they are basically identical in concept.
2: I got literally no problem with a freshly graduated brain surgeon to operate on me. If anything, I would expect them to have a higher standard since they have been studying the most recent medical knowledge where as the senior surgeons are working with antiquated knowledge that is only supported and made relevant by work experience. I mean seriously, you are talking with an IT professional here, the things I learned in school is already obsolete today so of course I value recent graduations compared to older ones. And again, young adults are the most productive, having them flip burgers for no reason is literally the same as crippling your own national economy for no reason.
3: I literally choose not to work because I dont find the compensation from work to be worth my time. Have you forgotten about that already? But not, I am talking about desperate people. Those that for one reason or another end in a situation where the employers have an advantage in negotiations and can dictate unreasonable demands. Again, are you against things like Unions for example?
@gorydetails 1: I dont care about the motives. You admit that the minimum wage EXISTS, that it is DEFINED, so why are your monkey brain struggling so hard with a "living wage"?
2: No idea what you are on about.
3: I dont care what you think about people in their 20's working whatever. Answer me, are you against Unions?
1) Again, it's an arbitrary value. Tell me the "living wage" for a family of 4 to live in NYC. I want a number.
2) I clearly stated that minimum wage jobs are for people to gain experience in a work environment, and/or an industry. You said you wanted a surgeon to come straight out of school, then contradict yourself by saying your IT knowledge you got from school is outdated so you need OTJ training to stay relevant.
@gorydetails I do know though. I have seen a few examples in dollar terms. There are even some that are literally in the link I sent you but which you are too lazy and uneducated to read yourself. but the whole point of a living wage is to be continuously adjusted to keep up with the changing requirements to live and the changing values of good and services.
Talking about a living wage like we do the minimum wage when we say 15 dollar an hour or whatever goes against the whole concept of why a living wage is better. It is a more complete solution to the problem than a defined number could ever be because it has to be applied in real life which is a dynamic problem in itself.
Next time you are trying to make me "admit you don't know", perhaps you should just read the link I sent you that has your answers already?
You’ve spent lots of replies trying to convince me how smart you are. Seems a simple enough task to be able to articulate what a “living wage” is for NYC.
@gorydetails And you have spent lots of replies proclaiming the value of work experience but you sure as hell ain't lifting a finger when I tell you where to find the answers you ask for. All I can assume is that you do not have any work ethics and that you are a lazy bum.
You keep spinning and spinning but can’t type some simple numbers. Almost like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Remember you’ve told me you’re so wealthy you don’t have to work, you should have some free time.
@gorydetails Oh, I got plenty of free time. I am just against the idea of "simple numbers" for complex problems so I have limited myself to pointing you in the correct direction where I know for a fact that they are.
So as I've said all along, you don't even understand what a living wage is, you can't quantify it... it's nothing but virtue signaling bullshit. Pretty much the entirety of your personality.
@gorydetails why it is always you, that loses an argument in the first few replies and then only continues with insults? You say the other doesn't bring real arguments while all you do bring is insults. If you think that this would win an argument than let me QUOTE YOU, back at yourself: 'you can fuck right off'
@msmissydc what argument? Tell me what you think a living wage should be. if you think it's good policy, it should be super simple to express. I've contended the entire time, it's just feels, not reals. None of you geniuses have been able to give a number.
Pretty bad when you think being a boy does anything for you. If you need anything more than what soteris already said I can say it's not a problem of his arguments but your missing understanding, which is also no fault of soteris, because it's pretty easy to understand.
This is a vicious cycle. Work Burger King you are now making $15 an hour now Burger King has to raise their price now if you took your kids to lunch it cost $5 per kids lunch before you have 4 kids $20 lunch bill now it is $30 dollar lunch bill you need a raise to afford lunch. You get a raise, and your employer needs to raise their prices. to cover your raise and I need a raise to cover the price increase of your raise the Berger King person needs a raise to cover my raise. etc, etc. etc AND etc
@DARKCLOUD1945X If it is a vicious circle then that means the job is not producing enough value to cover a living wage which means that the people who work in those jobs are wasting their time and effort being unproductive and it is all thanks to the business being a failure. Businesses like that should just be left to fail.
So yes, it is a "vicious cycle" and yes it is supposed to because it applies capitalist pressure that either forces the business to become more efficient or die and be replaced with a better business.
@gorydetails I have said all that I need to, given you all that you have reasonably asked of me and I am just waiting for you to process it all and for the argument to progress. You are not doing your end of the deal so I am not obliged to lift another finger.
@gorydetails Because I have made the argument that the number is supposed to be adjusted. Giving you a number is pointless when what matters is the process in which you derive that number. A living wage is not a number that is kept the same such as the current minimum wage which the government has to fiddle with every few years thanks to inflation. It is a number that actually reflects what people actually require to live at any one time.
@gorydetails The number literally changes anytime real world changes. The price of butter goes up? The living wage goes up to compensate. A new technology is introduced into society and normal people start using it such as the internet or mobile phones? The living wage includes it in its calculations etc..
That is the point, its supposed to be comprehensive and also incredibly easy to apply without having to have politicians vote on something every few years because inflation happened or something else changed.
The fact that you think this is an example of a "magical number" really says a lot about your lacking understanding of how math equations work.
@Kingofkings1992 This is literally a capitalist policy. Communism would not concern itself with things like wages or money as you know it. Please learn the difference.
@Soteris I’m waiting for the hourly rate that is a ‘living wage’ (as of today) for a family of 4 in NYC. Even the tards who want a $15 minimum wage can at least articulate how much they think employees are entitled to.
@gorydetails My point is that the living wage is based on the numbers provided by bureau of labor statistics and more specifically, their record of the basket of consumer goods and services (AKA what people are buying and how much it costs) combined with information such as insurance, taxes and the household structure to account for the specific cost of a specific family at a specific time.
Saying to give an example in dollar amounts is missing the entire point and shows that you do not understand that this is an equation, not a number.
@Soteris You fucking retard, what do equations result in? A number. If I’m making breakfast for 2 people and each person eats 3 eggs, I need 6 eggs. If I’m making eggs for 20 people, I need 60 eggs. A person working in HR needs to know what to key in on payroll day. What’s that number?
@Soteris. Ok, let’s try to make it easy for you. You work in payroll. Your job is to enter payroll into the system. For worker X, what do you put in for his/her salary to make this living wage?
@gorydetails You apply the equation and then move on to the next. We are living in a digital age, its literally automated. If you did not know, equations automatically give you the answer you are looking for.
It is an evil position, but it is the nature of the beast unfortunately.
Culturally we're expected to work and "earn our keep" in order to survive, but most people work the majority of their waking hours, and are supposed to live off of the dog shit wages they are given.
Society views that as you don't work hard enough brokey.
Kinda agree kinda don’t. Ultimately no one owes anyone a living. Then when I realize the world is run by corporations who in America get tax breaks, pretty much bribe all politicians to make laws only in their favor and pretty much screw us all in one way or another then I think: screw them, they can pay everyone non slave wages since their so corrupt.
it's absolutely true. it's your responsibilty to get a job that you can make a living with. you can't blame anyone else for your failure of doing so. and if you are litterally unable to, that's still not everyone elses fault. it's called labour "market" so go find yourself a job that can sustain your life.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(18-24)
6 mo
When you are 40 and you work in a job meant for teenagers to support a family of 4 then you should not get livable wage. You should increase your skills to be able to earn more money.
When you keep increasing everyone to a livable wage, prices keep going up, as they have been, and then the livable wage people can't afford them again. The rich don't care if a gallon of milk is $10. The livable wage people are only hurting themselves.
Holy cow! 87% of the respondents prefer communism? Its a scary world folks.
Work is not charity. No one owes you a living or should have to pay you one penny more than it takes to fill a job with someone else who is willing to do it for less. Guess what snowflakes, if you are not happy with the place you work you can always start your own business and see if you can do better.
It would be nice to live in a world where everybody is needs are met but the reality is that all goods and services are produced by people. So unless you're going to start using slave labor then you won't be able to pay people for a job that's worth less than it demands. And if you try to anyway it'll just cause massive inflation and devaluing of the dollar and you're back to square one because that poor person's dollar means less now.
Minimum wage jobs are not meant for people to stay forever, it is to get workplace experience. The low wage encourages you to leave in pursuit of better paying jobs. Not to mention, you leaving that job will open it up for more people to start their career.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
5 mo
100% agreed. You're not OWED anything. It's up to you to figure out what other people need/want and serve them in some way that creates value. THEN you can charge them for it and if one customer doesn't want to pay that's fine as long as there are others who DO.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(25-29)
6 mo
Of course that's true. People need to take responsibility for themselves. If a person's job doesn't meet their income requirements, they should find one that does.
Flipping burgers at McDonalds is for high school students, not people who need a living wage.
That's insane. If every job paid that much, then the costs would be passed on to consumers and prices would skyrocket again. Then, people would be right back to where they are now with increased wages and complaining it's not enough.
It depends on where you live to be honest. Where I used to live you had to make at least 8 an hour full time to make a livable wage. It wasn’t comfy but it was enough if you knew how to budget and if you didn’t have a car payment. It was pretty far from a city, now being where I am now however… definitely not livable lol. But if someone is making that you just got to go with what you can get
The good thing about America is the opportunities that we have that you don't find in other countries. If you have a job that does not pay a living wage there are opportunities to train for a new one.
disagree. everyone deserves the right to be able to live and provide themselves shelter, food, groceries, etc, especially if they are working for their money.
At the end of the day capitalism requires all socioeconomic levels to sustain. If you remove a level, the entire system crumbles. Yes, the poor should be allowed to live in a capitalistic society.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
37Opinion
No, lol.
I’m confused. Wasn’t minimum wage meant to be a living wage?
Why support paying anyone less than minimum wage? I don’t think anyone working 40+ hours a week should be looked down upon and they shouldn’t be struggling to survive. These are hard working American citizens.
If all I'm doing is bagging groceries I shouldn't be able to buy a house with that money. That job was meant to provide low-skilled people like teenagers a place to learn job skills. Or retirees that are looking to just stay active and get some more bingo money or what have you. It isn't a career and shouldn't be treated as such.
I said other, because basically if employers want good workers they should have the incentive of having a livable wage at bare minimum. If they don't they can't expect to get the best workers or even good workers, only acceptable workers that will do the bare minimum to get the job done. Sometimes that might be all that required for some jobs, and in those situations both employer and employee will be meeting the expectations.
I am in the middle of this. You can’t stay stagnant in a position and expect to be treated the same way as someone that is constantly progressing and growing - however I do think our current wages are extremely unfair and do not equal out to the work that people end up doing
That is the most stupid entitled statement that I ever heard. No one is entitled to another human beings labor without paying a living wage. Anything below that I consider criminal and should be prosecuted.
Thinking you deserve a living wage for working at Taco Bell is not entitled?
@Kingofkings1992
Yepp. If the job you are offering is not profitable enough to you that you can exchange it for a living wage then that job should not exist. If your business can't function without jobs that can't be economically justified then your business is inefficient and should go bankrupt to make room for other businesses who actually can make it profitable. That is capitalism in action.
@Soteris so any person entering the workforce is entitled to a living wage, regardless of the type of work it is, their experience, or their skill set? Sorry, a 16-year-old bagging groceries at Publix should not be paid a living wage.. That’s not how the world works. Period.
@Soteris that is literally communism.
@gorydetails On the contre my economically challenged friend. This practice of jobs paying subpar wages is bad both for the industry, country and the workers. The only one gaining anything from it is the owner who gets a free pass on being a parasite.
For what is a job worth less than a livable wage than a job that is so worthless it has to be subsidized by someone else? Its a drain on resources, in this case on the government and the people. The fact that you are trying to defend this just tells me that you want to sabotage your own nation. I would call that traitorous myself but you already call yourself a nationalist so I guess its redundant.
@Kingofkings1992
If the business can't profit of the labor of a 16 year old enough that they can pay a livable wage then that 16 year old should work for a different business which is profitable enough that they CAN support it. Allowing citizens to work subpar jobs is literally just crippling your own economy with failed businesses that does not make financial sense.
@gorydetails I literally dont care about the motive, I care about the effects on the economy. If you support such things as capitalism then you should be fucking ecstatic to nuke businesses from orbit that can't produce a profit without being subsidized. These businesses are literal parasites. Why on earth would you defend them?
@Soteris you still live at home in your parents house in your 30s. Do you really think you are a good judge of financial success?
@gorydetails *rolls eyes* The job of workers is literally to produce value, be it in goods or services. If the job in question can't meet the low bar of profitability then they are by definition unprofitable and by the ideology of capitalism they should fail and be replaced by another business which actually can make that job profitable.
@gorydetails don’t waste your energy on this idiot bro. People who believe ideology like his are dangerous, and they should be avoided. He’s the type of person who would support parents losing custody of their children because they didn’t get them covid vaccinated.
@Kingofkings1992 This is literally Capitalism. Are you sure you want to diss it? I mean, I am fine with trash talking Capitalism but I thought that was the foundation of you very existence as an American.
@Soteris Do you even have a job?
@gorydetails Nope, quit it earlier this autumn because its winter and I rather not deal with that. I got enough money that I dont need a job and only work when I personally feel bored. Jealous?
@gorydetails Loser? I am financially secure enough to decide my own life. I get to decide if or when I work. I get to decide what house I buy and live in. I get to choose what I spend my life doing, rather than burn away my midnight oil for a company that does not care about me nor would miss me if I disappeared one day.
What a sad and lonely existence you must live.
@gorydetails *Shrugs* I guess I can't do anything but pity you then. Not only are you a sad little man but you must even insist on being wrong online on things such as what capitalism is. Actually, maybe that is why you dont have the financial ability to do the same things I do, because you dont understand capitalism?
What a weird tangent. I guess whatever it takes for you to try to think you're not worthless.
@gorydetails Wrapping the conversation back to the actual topic we were discussing is a tangent? Dude, you went off track talking about if I had a job or not. You dont get to talk about tangents.
lol. So when you had a job, did you agree to the payment for your labor?
@gorydetails No, no, no. Lets not go on any tangents like you said. Lets laser focus on what this conversation was supposed to be, if companies refusing to pay a "living wage" is entitlement or not.
So I ask you, why should a business be entitled to employees working below a living wage?
1) You can't define living wage
2) Minimum wage jobs are for young people to get work experience. They have never been for people to support themselves or a family. If you're a grown adult and never progress past minimum wage, you are a loser.
3) When you accept a job, you are agreeing that your labor is worth the money you are being paid for it.
That's the end.
@gorydetails
1: Nope, its an extensive explanation of how it would work in practice. I also love how you somehow accept the concept of "minimum wage" but struggle to wrap your head around a "living wage" when they are basically identical in concept.
2: I got literally no problem with a freshly graduated brain surgeon to operate on me. If anything, I would expect them to have a higher standard since they have been studying the most recent medical knowledge where as the senior surgeons are working with antiquated knowledge that is only supported and made relevant by work experience. I mean seriously, you are talking with an IT professional here, the things I learned in school is already obsolete today so of course I value recent graduations compared to older ones. And again, young adults are the most productive, having them flip burgers for no reason is literally the same as crippling your own national economy for no reason.
3: I literally choose not to work because I dont find the compensation from work to be worth my time. Have you forgotten about that already? But not, I am talking about desperate people. Those that for one reason or another end in a situation where the employers have an advantage in negotiations and can dictate unreasonable demands. Again, are you against things like Unions for example?
1) Minimum wage was put in place to keep black people out of the job market
2) So you admit that your IT work is essential for you to "get ahead".
3) Again, if you're in your 20s and have been working 5+ years and still in the same entry level minimum wage job, you're a shit employee.
@gorydetails
1: I dont care about the motives. You admit that the minimum wage EXISTS, that it is DEFINED, so why are your monkey brain struggling so hard with a "living wage"?
2: No idea what you are on about.
3: I dont care what you think about people in their 20's working whatever. Answer me, are you against Unions?
1) Again, it's an arbitrary value. Tell me the "living wage" for a family of 4 to live in NYC. I want a number.
2) I clearly stated that minimum wage jobs are for people to gain experience in a work environment, and/or an industry. You said you wanted a surgeon to come straight out of school, then contradict yourself by saying your IT knowledge you got from school is outdated so you need OTJ training to stay relevant.
3) And I don't listen to your demands.
@gorydetails Oh sorry, let me rectify that.
(A*B+C)/D = Livable wage
Hope that clears things up.
@gorydetails Nope. I just can't help you if you are bad at math.
You could be a man for once and admit you don’t know.
@gorydetails I do know though. I have seen a few examples in dollar terms. There are even some that are literally in the link I sent you but which you are too lazy and uneducated to read yourself. but the whole point of a living wage is to be continuously adjusted to keep up with the changing requirements to live and the changing values of good and services.
Talking about a living wage like we do the minimum wage when we say 15 dollar an hour or whatever goes against the whole concept of why a living wage is better. It is a more complete solution to the problem than a defined number could ever be because it has to be applied in real life which is a dynamic problem in itself.
Next time you are trying to make me "admit you don't know", perhaps you should just read the link I sent you that has your answers already?
You’ve spent lots of replies trying to convince me how smart you are. Seems a simple enough task to be able to articulate what a “living wage” is for NYC.
@gorydetails And you have spent lots of replies proclaiming the value of work experience but you sure as hell ain't lifting a finger when I tell you where to find the answers you ask for. All I can assume is that you do not have any work ethics and that you are a lazy bum.
You keep spinning and spinning but can’t type some simple numbers. Almost like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Remember you’ve told me you’re so wealthy you don’t have to work, you should have some free time.
@gorydetails Oh, I got plenty of free time. I am just against the idea of "simple numbers" for complex problems so I have limited myself to pointing you in the correct direction where I know for a fact that they are.
But that's the entire concept of "living wage" that you're screeching about.
@gorydetails Nope, that is literally not what it is and congratulations on not having understood anything we have talked about.
So as I've said all along, you don't even understand what a living wage is, you can't quantify it... it's nothing but virtue signaling bullshit. Pretty much the entirety of your personality.
@gorydetails why it is always you, that loses an argument in the first few replies and then only continues with insults?
You say the other doesn't bring real arguments while all you do bring is insults. If you think that this would win an argument than let me QUOTE YOU, back at yourself: 'you can fuck right off'
@msmissydc Ahahaha! That was beautiful! Brought a single tear right to my eye.
@msmissydc what argument? Tell me what you think a living wage should be. if you think it's good policy, it should be super simple to express. I've contended the entire time, it's just feels, not reals. None of you geniuses have been able to give a number.
@Soteris pretty bad when you need a chick to fight your battles for you.
Pretty bad when you think being a boy does anything for you. If you need anything more than what soteris already said I can say it's not a problem of his arguments but your missing understanding, which is also no fault of soteris, because it's pretty easy to understand.
This is a vicious cycle. Work Burger King you are now making $15 an hour now Burger King has to raise their price now if you took your kids to lunch it cost $5 per kids lunch before you have 4 kids $20 lunch bill now it is $30 dollar lunch bill you need a raise to afford lunch. You get a raise, and your employer needs to raise their prices. to cover your raise and I need a raise to cover the price increase of your raise the Berger King person needs a raise to cover my raise. etc, etc. etc AND etc
@DARKCLOUD1945X If it is a vicious circle then that means the job is not producing enough value to cover a living wage which means that the people who work in those jobs are wasting their time and effort being unproductive and it is all thanks to the business being a failure. Businesses like that should just be left to fail.
So yes, it is a "vicious cycle" and yes it is supposed to because it applies capitalist pressure that either forces the business to become more efficient or die and be replaced with a better business.
@gorydetails I have said all that I need to, given you all that you have reasonably asked of me and I am just waiting for you to process it all and for the argument to progress. You are not doing your end of the deal so I am not obliged to lift another finger.
I am starting to wonder why you’re scared to give a number.
@gorydetails Because I have made the argument that the number is supposed to be adjusted. Giving you a number is pointless when what matters is the process in which you derive that number. A living wage is not a number that is kept the same such as the current minimum wage which the government has to fiddle with every few years thanks to inflation. It is a number that actually reflects what people actually require to live at any one time.
@gorydetails The number literally changes anytime real world changes. The price of butter goes up? The living wage goes up to compensate. A new technology is introduced into society and normal people start using it such as the internet or mobile phones? The living wage includes it in its calculations etc..
That is the point, its supposed to be comprehensive and also incredibly easy to apply without having to have politicians vote on something every few years because inflation happened or something else changed.
The fact that you think this is an example of a "magical number" really says a lot about your lacking understanding of how math equations work.
@Soteris take your communism somewhere else. It’s not welcome in America.
@Kingofkings1992
This is literally a capitalist policy. Communism would not concern itself with things like wages or money as you know it. Please learn the difference.
@Kingofkings1992
*sigh* When will Americans actually learn political philosophy?
@Soteris the best part is you think that this bullshit is intellectual thought.
@gorydetails You mean, as opposed to whatever the fuck you are doing?
@Soteris I’m waiting for the hourly rate that is a ‘living wage’ (as of today) for a family of 4 in NYC. Even the tards who want a $15 minimum wage can at least articulate how much they think employees are entitled to.
@gorydetails There you go again and completely miss the point. Congratulations of wasting more time.
@Soteris you have no point. You just spout horseshit “liViNG WaGe!”
@gorydetails My point is that the living wage is based on the numbers provided by bureau of labor statistics and more specifically, their record of the basket of consumer goods and services (AKA what people are buying and how much it costs) combined with information such as insurance, taxes and the household structure to account for the specific cost of a specific family at a specific time.
Saying to give an example in dollar amounts is missing the entire point and shows that you do not understand that this is an equation, not a number.
@Soteris You fucking retard, what do equations result in? A number. If I’m making breakfast for 2 people and each person eats 3 eggs, I need 6 eggs. If I’m making eggs for 20 people, I need 60 eggs. A person working in HR needs to know what to key in on payroll day. What’s that number?
@gorydetails Alright then. What number does this equation result in? A+B=?
@Soteris. Ok, let’s try to make it easy for you. You work in payroll. Your job is to enter payroll into the system. For worker X, what do you put in for his/her salary to make this living wage?
@gorydetails You apply the equation and then move on to the next. We are living in a digital age, its literally automated. If you did not know, equations automatically give you the answer you are looking for.
@gorydetails he’s back for more. At this point, I’m starting to think he thoroughly enjoys being made a fool of.
@Kingofkings1992 his commitment to being a retard is astounding
@Soteris ok so employee X works 40 hours, what’s his gross pay for a month?
@gorydetails You do understand what "=" means right? Same on the right, as on the left. The equation IS the answer as much as the "number" is.
@Kingofkings1992
I am not the one struggling with elementary math here.
@Soteris I understand U = moron.
@gorydetails Very creative.
It is an evil position, but it is the nature of the beast unfortunately.
Culturally we're expected to work and "earn our keep" in order to survive, but most people work the majority of their waking hours, and are supposed to live off of the dog shit wages they are given.
Society views that as you don't work hard enough brokey.
Kinda agree kinda don’t. Ultimately no one owes anyone a living. Then when I realize the world is run by corporations who in America get tax breaks, pretty much bribe all politicians to make laws only in their favor and pretty much screw us all in one way or another then I think: screw them, they can pay everyone non slave wages since their so corrupt.
it's absolutely true. it's your responsibilty to get a job that you can make a living with. you can't blame anyone else for your failure of doing so. and if you are litterally unable to, that's still not everyone elses fault. it's called labour "market" so go find yourself a job that can sustain your life.
When you are 40 and you work in a job meant for teenagers to support a family of 4 then you should not get livable wage. You should increase your skills to be able to earn more money.
When you keep increasing everyone to a livable wage, prices keep going up, as they have been, and then the livable wage people can't afford them again. The rich don't care if a gallon of milk is $10. The livable wage people are only hurting themselves.
Holy cow! 87% of the respondents prefer communism? Its a scary world folks.
Work is not charity. No one owes you a living or should have to pay you one penny more than it takes to fill a job with someone else who is willing to do it for less. Guess what snowflakes, if you are not happy with the place you work you can always start your own business and see if you can do better.
It would be nice to live in a world where everybody is needs are met but the reality is that all goods and services are produced by people. So unless you're going to start using slave labor then you won't be able to pay people for a job that's worth less than it demands. And if you try to anyway it'll just cause massive inflation and devaluing of the dollar and you're back to square one because that poor person's dollar means less now.
Minimum wage jobs are not meant for people to stay forever, it is to get workplace experience. The low wage encourages you to leave in pursuit of better paying jobs. Not to mention, you leaving that job will open it up for more people to start their career.
100% agreed. You're not OWED anything. It's up to you to figure out what other people need/want and serve them in some way that creates value. THEN you can charge them for it and if one customer doesn't want to pay that's fine as long as there are others who DO.
Of course that's true. People need to take responsibility for themselves. If a person's job doesn't meet their income requirements, they should find one that does.
Flipping burgers at McDonalds is for high school students, not people who need a living wage.
Well, what is a living wage? I would disagree with that statement.
These days I’d say at least $18-20/ hour
That's insane. If every job paid that much, then the costs would be passed on to consumers and prices would skyrocket again. Then, people would be right back to where they are now with increased wages and complaining it's not enough.
Well, $18-20 is too much for some jobs.
It depends on where you live to be honest. Where I used to live you had to make at least 8 an hour full time to make a livable wage. It wasn’t comfy but it was enough if you knew how to budget and if you didn’t have a car payment. It was pretty far from a city, now being where I am now however… definitely not livable lol. But if someone is making that you just got to go with what you can get
The good thing about America is the opportunities that we have that you don't find in other countries. If you have a job that does not pay a living wage there are opportunities to train for a new one.
disagree. everyone deserves the right to be able to live and provide themselves shelter, food, groceries, etc, especially if they are working for their money.
True. And if you can find a job that pays 10 cents more per hour, jump ship with no notice. Only public servants are owed a living wage.
I agree. What a person earns should be tied to their productivity, in particular, how much they make for their employer.
At the end of the day capitalism requires all socioeconomic levels to sustain. If you remove a level, the entire system crumbles. Yes, the poor should be allowed to live in a capitalistic society.