“No one is owed a living wage just because they work.” Thoughts on this statement?

[Kingofkings1992]

Agree

Disagree

Other

Updates

+1 y

Wow I wasn’t expecting this many votes 😮

Updates

+1 y

Man…there’s a lot of fighting happening on this post. I like it 🙂

[MrOracle]

It's absolutely true.

It's YOUR job to bring enough value to the world that you can earn the money you want to earn. It's not the job of other people to subsidize you. If you only provide enough value to bag fries at McDonalds or be a greeter at WalMart, then don't complain about the wages. Educate yourself - you have all the world's knowledge in your pocket 24/7, so LEARN A SKILL of some kind and improve your value! You do NOT need to go to college to learn - there's thousands of skills you can learn just from free YouTube videos that could double your earnings over a minimum wage job easily, and others that will do much better than that.

Your value to the world is largely indicated by your results (yes, exceptions exist), so if your results are not good, it's YOUR job to increase your value in some way. And when you increase your value to the world - either via your own business, or by bringing in more earnings (or savings) to the company you work for - then you will be able to make more money.

The world doesn't owe you anything beyond what you EARN. If you want more, be worth more. Or don't. That's your choice, but you shouldn't expect your outcome to be any better than your value (though you have a LOT of control over your value).

[Kingofkings1992]

My man @Soteris take notes. This man knows what he’s talking about

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
Ahaha! Sure he does.

This is honestly quite stupid. First of all, it is the employers job to ensure that you are productive enough to cover the cost of employing you. If the job does not produce enough value to hire a person then it is not a job that is worth enough for a human to waste their time on. It is fucking rich of this guy to complain about entitled people being subsidized when that is literally what happens when people are employed for a wage that is too low.

Be it their family, the government providing food stamps or whatever but either way someone else has to subsidize them instead of the businesses which employs them. Businesses who employ kids at minimum wage are pushing some of the responsibility of paying for their wage onto the rest of society. They are nothing but entitled parasites quite frankly.

Lets use an analogue. Lets say a business rented cars and used them to produce wealth. However, some tasks were so worthless that the rent was higher than the produced wealth. But worry not! Because thanks to a government subsidy the business can now rent the same car for half the rent while the government pays for the rest and the business can benefit from the entire wealth being produced.

That is stupid. If a business actually did this then they should not be subsidized and go bankrupt because they could not afford to pay the rent for the cars. It is not a successful business and according to capitalism it should be destroyed to give room for new businesses with better ideas.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris actually, you are the one who is quite stupid. If a person is given a living wage right off the bat, with no previous work experience and next to nothing to offer a company, then the incentive for them to work hard and prove their worth is taken away. You clearly have no prior experience of what it is like to work hard for something. Must be nice to have mommy and daddy hand you everything in life.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

your mcdonalds wage is low because your contribution to helping your employer "make money" is too low. The moer money you help your employer earn, the more the employer will value you and PAY YOU. This is how it works.

plus... if you are planning on handing out free money to poor people. where are you getting this "free money" from? taxpayers!!! If the vast majority of the population is making minimum wage, there will be no taxpayers to tax. This is why you need the vast majority of population to be well earning tax payers. this won't happen if you're not motivating people to make more money.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
No, that is not what employers hire for. If it was, it would be part of the hiring process. Furthermore, the whole point of schools is to provide students with "work experience" as you call it, both in the practical knowledge required to do the job and the work ethics. Saying that you need to flip burgers for a few years after leaving schools is like saying you need to learn how to crawl like a baby after finishing a marathon. It is stupid.

To add to this, even if it was the case that a student fresh from school would be lacking work experience that would still not be an argument for paying them less than a living wage. Put simply, once you pay someone below a living wage you forfeit any pretense over paying them for what they are worth, at most you are paying them for the value they provide you by doing the jobs that you tell them to do which is not THEIR problem, its the fault of the employer.

I feel that i need to remind you that as an employee you dont really have any responsibility over the success of the company. It is not your job to care if it is financially successful or not, that is the job of your employer. Your incentive for working is NOT that the company goes well or that you have future prospects, your incentive is your compensation AKA your wage. Anything else is just bullshit propaganda.

[Soteris]

@nastyb First of all, I just need to categorically disprove your beliefs that your productivity has anything to do with how much you are compensated in wages.



It is just not happening in real life. In fact, it does not even make any sense. If I for example was a manager and I invested in giving my employees better tools to improve their work performance, I do not automatically raise their wages to represent their increased productivity. There is no direct link between the two, at best you could argue that workers could try leverage their performance and threaten to quit but that is obviously not working to keep up with their actual productivity.

In other words, no, the McDonalds wage is not low because your contribution is not enough. McDonalds employees in other countries does the same job and receive much higher wages as an example. But, that also does not matter. It is not the employees fault that the job that they are ASSIGNED by their employer is not productive enough. Must I remind you that it is your boss that tells you what to do? If what you are doing is NOT productive then that is HIS fault and has nothing to do with how much you should be paid and everything to do with why they should be fired or why the business should go bankrupt.

And yes, lets talk about handing out "free money". A living wage is non-negotiable. It is what a human basically needs to live, hence the name. If the business does not pay a wage high enough, then the money needs to come from somewhere else. Either from the government, AKA tax payers, or from the rest of society such as family, friends or charity. In other words, all these decent people are paying for the business to continue to underpay their workers and only the business benefits from it. Does that sound right to you?

[nastyb]

@Soteris

its not about productivity, its about cost of services.

your fake chart is illegitimate.

A doctor can make his employer 700,000 in a month.
You as a McDonalds worker, can barely make your boss 3000 a week working 40 hours a week.

this is why doctors make so much money while mcdonald's workers make so little money.
the less money you

[In other words, all these decent people are paying for the business to continue to underpay their workers and only the business benefits from it. Does that sound right to you?]

does it sound fair to you how some people kill themselves to go to school while working jobs for YEARS just to get a better life WHILE other people just get things for free over and over and over again?

WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE GO TO COLLEGE AND SUFFER?

BECAUSE THEY KNOW NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE! IF THEY TRULY WANTED SOMETHING, THEY HAD TO SACRIFICE TO GET IT.

By handing out free things , you will just ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO BECOME LAZY.

[McDonalds employees in other countries does the same job and receive much higher wages as an example. But, that also does not matter. It is not the employees fault that the job that they are ASSIGNED by their employer is not productive enough.]

just because other countries reward people for being stupid , it doesn't mean its hte right thing to do. By giving lazy stupid peolpe a good life, there will be no motivation to

[nastyb]

[McDonalds employees in other countries does the same job and receive much higher wages as an example. But, that also does not matter. It is not the employees fault that the job that they are ASSIGNED by their employer is not productive enough.]

just because other countries reward people for being stupid , it doesn't mean its the right thing to do. By giving lazy stupid people a good life, there will be no motivation to have them become smart people. Our entire society will become filled with stupid uneducated people.

it takes skilled workers to help our country become wealthy and powerful. Do you think American companies will succeed if they didn't have enough talent? if most people were just working mcdoanlds jobs instead of working at IBM or Apple?

if there were more people working low wage jobs, you will RUN OUT OF PEOPLE TO TAX. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE WELFARE.

It is crucial that vast majority of americans make enough money to pay taxes to the government.

[Soteris]

@nastyb First of all, that graph is just fact. Feel free to "disagree" with it if you like, but it just makes you look foolish. Not that I care, its not required for my arguments. I was just trying to correct one of your (apparently many) incorrect views of the world. I am not going to make that mistake again, since apparently its a waste of time.

So yeah, you contradicted yourself here. First of all you talked about how the difference between McDonalds workers and Doctors wages is due to their productivity, implying that productivity has a direct correlation to someones wage. After that you tried to sweep the problem of wage discrepancy between the same job in different countries under the rug.

Your direct quote "Just because other countries reward people for being stupid , it doesn't mean its the right thing to do". Well this poses a problem for you. Either McDonald employees are productive enough to earn a higher wage, or McDonalds (and every other company in developed countries outside of USA) are employing staff at a company loss. You simply can't make the argument that productivity = wage without productivity actually giving you a higher wage.

As for incentives to work? That is literally what your wage is. If people need a higher incentive to work then give them a higher wage not to be lazy. I dont understand why this is such a difficult thing to understand.

I also appreciate that you literally confirmed what I said by saying "if there were more people working low wage jobs, you will RUN OUT OF PEOPLE TO TAX. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE WELFARE", which in other words means you completely agree with me that the government HAS to subsidize minimum wage workers with tax payer money because the business has failed to pay them enough to live.

Lastly, McDonalds is highly profitable, far more than any hospital. Dont act like they could not pay a higher wage.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

your theory does not make sense anyways. where does the government find money to give welfare? TAXPAYERS!!! If you motivated more people to become McDonalds workers INSTEAD of professional jobs, where the fuck are you going to find the money to fund welfare?

YOU MUST MOTIVATE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE HUMAN POPULATION TO BE TAXPAYERS.

If everyone knew they could get a decent life by working at McDonalds, why the fuck would anyone want to go to college? advance themselves?

This is why you make no sense. You the government to give welfare, but your plan does not provide a way for the government to find the money to pay welfare.

[Lastly, McDonalds is highly profitable, far more than any hospital. Dont act like they could not pay a higher wage.]

you are paid what you are worth. The average mcdonalds worker barely makes 3000 in profits for its employer. This is why mconalds refuse to pay you a lot of money. Mcdonalds make a shit ton of money because they have spent MILLIONS ON ADVERTISING throughout many years. They have built a name brand for themselves through advertising, not by hiring people to flip burgers.
Cashiers and burger flippers dont rake in revenue for mcdonalds. It is the money spent on advertising through the years that rakes in money for McDonalds. This is why mcdonalds don't care about its workers. Lastly, the easier it is to get into a profession, the more disposable you become. Because mcdonalds knows there are plenty of other people who qualify for your job.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

communism is never going to extract the talent or the best out of your people.

the only way you can extract the best out of your human population is to REWARD THOSE WHO SUCCEED, instead of rewarding those who don't want to succeed.

if you are PUNISHING THOSE WHO SUCCEED, you will just have a society filled with non productive, useless, idiots.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

your plan simply doesn't work. Lets face it, the only way to make more money is to work on yourself, not to demand free money. Government can't pay welfare if it has no well earning individuals to tax.

And clearly the existing welfare isn't enough for you, so you're demanding more and more and more free money. I dont think people will ever stop demanding for free money. The cycle will never stop.

[Soteris]

@nastyb Alright, lets do a little math problem.

On one side you have a large number of employees who works and earns a wage. They are taxed at.. lets see.. lets say 50% just for the sake of argument.

On the other side we have one corporation and 1 rich person which receives the same amount of money in total as all those workers did except due to their higher tax bracket they are being taxed at.. lets say 90%.

So you have the same amount of money on both sides, but one is taxed at 50% and one is taxed at 90%. Which group is providing a larger share of taxes to the government?

You see, back here in the real world (if you have a functioning tax system *cough cough USA cough cough*), having the income disparity between rich and the poor actually increases the amount of tax payer money since less of it is taxed at a lower rate and more of it is taxed at the extreme top rate. Assuming the economy is stable or growing that is.

If you are worried about tax payer money funding welfare then it makes no sense to push low and middle class people into earning more since that actually decreases taxes. Your whole argument is as such, pretty stupid.

[Soteris]

@nastyb So, the question is not if the government CAN continue paying welfare. Because it obviously can. It is, SHOULD the government continue paying welfare? And I am not talking about trying to dismantle the welfare system, that does not work no matter how the Republicans bitch and moan about cutting benefits. I am talking about actually improving peoples careers and opportunities.

And no, trying to "motivate" people by having them being paid below their means and pressuring them to "perform" above their limit is not productive at all. A fairly basic requirement for someone to succeed is to have the room to improve. That means things like financial security and the free time to work on themselves is what makes the difference between a 35 year old burger flipper and an entrepreneur.

Your version of "help" is only ever going to oppress people into becoming more of an underclass as they spend not only their time and energy trying to survive but also the most productive years of their lives in an environment that does not allow them to succeed. This is especially true if someone actually tries to make something with their life and for example takes out a loan to start their own business and yet fails. That is their one shot at life gone and they will spend the rest just trying to recover. Your worldview simply does not work outside of keeping people in poverty.

Lastly, I love how you try to argue that McDonalds profits from marketing. No it does not. This is a common mistake that people who does not understand economics regularly fall for. Sure, marketing can increase the profits, in a way, but they are not the ones who are actually generating that profit. They are not producing value through goods or services. It is the burger flippers and cashiers that ACTUALLY produces value in McDonalds.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris Jesus h Christ. Will you shut the fuck up? You’ve made your point. We don’t agree with you stop beating it into the ground.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
Hmm. Let me think.. No.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris reply one more time and you will be blocked

[nastyb]

@Soteris

[Lastly, I love how you try to argue that McDonalds profits from marketing. No it does not. This is a common mistake that people who does not understand economics regularly fall for. ]

so how are you an expert in economics if you can't even tell me where the government is going to find all the money to fund welfare?

[They are not producing value through goods or services. It is the burger flippers and cashiers that ACTUALLY produces value in McDonalds.]

if it weren't for advertising, these burger flippers won't even be working because there won't be customers. Advertising is the only way to get customers, does not matter how many workers you stack inside the kitchen- this won't increase revenue.

continue being stupid, robots are going to take over cashier and burger flipper jobs now.

your theory DOES NOT WORK.

Where the fuck are you going to find billions of dollars fund welfare when you've convinced the vast majority of the population to be poor? Poor people do not pay enough taxes to fund welfare.

tax dollars come from people that are well earning tax payers, not broke people who cannot make any money.

In the long run, YOUR PLAN WILL FAIL

instead of being lazy, go to school, work on yourself, then the money will come.

[nastyb]

@Kingofkings1992

his point doesn't even make any sense.

he's just an idiot.

[Kingofkings1992]

@nastyb that’s the understatement of the century. This man legitimately believes having a piece of cloth on your face saves lives. Lmao!

[Soteris]

@nastyb If you think McDonalds needs more advertisement then I dont know what to tell you, either way, you are missing the point. Advertisement simply draws in customers, it does not produce good or services which means advertisement does not produce GDP. That is what GDP is by the way.

I have also, using my amateur level understanding of economics no less, explained how poor people are ironically great for tax revenue. If you require another math example then sure, lets do it.

Welcome to company A! It has a ton of burger flippers and an owner. Company A has an income of 20 000 dollars. 10 000 of those dollars goes to pay the many wages of Company A's employees and they pay 50% tax on their income for the sake of argument. The rest of the 10 000 dollars goes to the owner and the business who both pay 90% tax.

Welcome to Company B. Company B has a bunch of doctors and an owner. Company B has an income of 20 000 dollars. 15 000 of those dollars goes to pay the wages of Company B's employees and they pay 55% tax on their income. The rest of the 5 000 dollars goes to the owner and the business who both pay 90% tax.

The tax revenue from Company A and their burger flippers is: 14 000 dollars
The tax revenue from Company B and their doctors is: 12 750 dollars

[Soteris]

@nastyb The burger flippers, with their lower wage, is generating more tax revenue for the government than the doctors. Do you get it now or do I need to break out the crayons? The tax income to support welfare is not an issue, pure and simple.

I have not even touched on the established fact that welfare has an economic positive effect which has been widely documented in every country that has tried it or anything else really, we are still stuck on the basics of elementary school math with you.

I am just going to leave you with a very simple concept. "Social Mobility", yes it has the dreaded "social" in the name but dont let that scare you. Considering how much you keep banging on about how I am supposedly convincing the majority of people to stay poor, this concept of "Social Mobility" becomes very relevant. It is the change in social class, such as going from poor to middle class by becoming successful in their careers.

Luckily, we have more countries that USA in the world and some of those have experimented with welfare to a much higher degree so we now have a lot of scientific data that supports the fact that welfare promotes social mobility AKA it allows people to climb up from being poor to becoming wealthier and more successful.

Not only does my plan work long term, it has a demonstrable history to prove it. I am right, you are wrong. Deal with it.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
News flash: Half the users on this platform has already blocked me, why on earth would one more random user make a difference from me? I am not going to lose any sleep by never having to talk with you ever again. Next time, dont bother to threaten with something that literally nobody cares about. Either block or dont block, dont waste my time with this self-entitled bullshit.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

[The burger flippers, with their lower wage, is generating more tax revenue for the government than the doctors. Do you get it now or do I need to break out the crayons?]

burger flippers pay more taxes than doctors? I don't think so. Its time to stop lying and acknowledge that doctors CONTRIBUTE much more to their employers AND the government than burger flipppers.

PLENTY OF PEOPLE UNDER WELFARE PAY NO TAXES.

[nastyb]

@Soteris

[Luckily, we have more countries that USA in the world and some of those have experimented with welfare to a much higher degree so we now have a lot of scientific data that supports the fact that welfare promotes social mobility AKA it allows people to climb up from being poor to becoming wealthier and more successful.]

welfare does not promote social mobility. Its been proven that poverty tend to run through generations. Plus, by fattening up the poor people's wallet with free money, WILL GIVE THEM NO MOTIVATION to get out of poverty.

quit being a lazy asshole and start working hard towards success instead of looking to leech off of other people's success.

THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PROVIDE WELFARE IF THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WELL EARNING TAXPAYERS.

[Kingofkings1992]

@nastyb I warned him. He’s blocked don’t worry about that idiot anymore.

[nastyb]

@Kingofkings1992

I'm not afraid of debating this with him. I will be sure to make him realize how stupid he really is. He doesn't seem to be able to explain on anything on his stance other than to stomp his feet and spew false information and then insisting they're true.

[Kingofkings1992]

@nastyb we don’t have time for idiots. They’re mentally exhausting. One thing I will say for him, at least he’s not as stupid as @chefpapichulo. One would have to make a conscious effort to be as unintelligent as him.

[ChefPapiChulo]

you're weird man. get help.

[Kingofkings1992]

@ChefPapiChulo I’ll get right on it brother

[OlderAndWiser]

If you want to earn a good salary, learn how to do something that is in demand and that any idiot can't be trained to do in five minutes. Entry level jobs are not meant to make you self-supporting.

[madhatters4]

if we agree that people who work full time should not be expected to earn a living wage then we can't fault people for seeking financial assistance from the government. we can't have it both ways.

[kylee2437]

And the most fucked up part of government assistance is, is you can be $1000 off what qualifies you for government assistance and they still won’t even consider. It’s very sad and it’s gross that people don’t think our current government is a problem

[madhatters4]

@kylee2437 yup. it's one of the biggest issues in our nation. even more than guns, immigrants, etc. it's the terrible terrible state of income inequality

[kylee2437]

@madhatters4 and it’s very sad that so many neighbors around that sit lightly above the average person basically side with the corruption the government does to make it difficult to live just average.

[kylee2437]

That sit slightly*

[madhatters4]

@kylee2437 yeah. in many ways too many of us have lost the ability to care about each other and rather only care about ourselves. and so long as we are ok we let the government convince that anyone else who is struggling is just lazy, entitled, etc.

[kylee2437]

@madhatters4 and it’s sad that they try to justify with the corruptness just because they only care about their own happiness.

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

@kylee2437 Please don't forget you are dealing with THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY OF AMERICA they want us all under their control the communist way that in one hundred years has never worked. Just think about our school aged children cannot read do math spell but get 100% on wokeness how they are going to get a job if they cannot read or write.$19 an hour to sling burgers.

[kylee2437]

@DARKCLOUD1945X you are clearly not up to date with society if you think $19 pays for day to day life of an adult. Conspiracy theorist you are

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

@kylee2437II think $ 760 a week is a lot to sling hamburgers. If your thinking of a wife house car not enough but this is an entry job unless you become upper management. A telephone repair person is upwards of $2000 a week BUT YOU NEED AN EDUCATION ! you need to be able to read and write English you need math you have to want work. WOKE BULLSHIT DOES NOT FLY!!!

[kylee2437]

@DARKCLOUD1945X again you are a conspiracy theorist because even with the math you just did that’s less than $40,000 a year which literally makes you eligible for government assistance in many states. That’s not a lot of money. Wake up.

[kylee2437]

@darkclous1945x and also reality check: I know line cooks in restaurants that don’t even make $19 an hour so where in god Christ did you even get that number from?

[kylee2437]

Saddest generation ever where people Gatekeep making money 💀 ridiculous

[MzAsh]

I believe if you work full time as an employee in a legit business, you should have a livable wage.

[Kingofkings1992]

A job that is so low skill like ringing up orders at Taco Bell should not pay like a labor-intensive job does. Those types of jobs are for entry level workers to gain some working experience. If you are 35 years old, and working the cash register at Taco Bell, you have obviously failed in life. That’s no one else’s fault with your own. You aren’t owed a living wage just because you exist. That’s communism. You have to provide a VALUE to the company that is WORTH a living wage.

[MzAsh]

Of course not all jobs are created equally. But I believe a 35 year old Taco Bell worker (who works full time hours) should be able to afford a standard sized apartment and basic needs like food, utilities, transportation) without struggling or having to go get yet another job.

[MrOracle]

Why? Does being 35 mean you bring more value to Taco Bell than a 19 year old? Not if you are doing the same job (if you are the manager, then, of course you are, and your pay will reflect that).

Age isn't what matters - what matters is the value you are bringing to the company. Of course, what company you work for is also reflected in your value - nearly anyone could work at Taco Bell, because the hiring requirements are super low. You need to bring a lot more value to even be allowed to apply for jobs at many companies, but those companies generally pay a whole lot better.

[MzAsh]

Age doesn’t matter. I said 35 because the last guy mentioned that age. I pay should be based not on the value you bring, but also be incentivized for you have to endure. I struggled to get through working in food and retail. I learned several skills, and learned to bring value but it also really pushed my buttons and made me kinda misanthropic. I believe I was WAY undervalued and WAY underpaid in those roles. Now I make 4x the pay but I do less work and have to deal with almost zero bs from other people. I sit on my ass writing lifestyle and news articles, coaching clients I want to help and it’s great.

[molonski2]

I agree , you are full time , the wage can't be tokenistic , it must be a living wage.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@MrOracle are you aware how that value is determined? or do you just throw nonsense and hope it sticks?

[MrOracle]

@ChefPapiChulo The market determines your value - and that value is going to change with conditions.

20 years ago, if you were working on AI, you would be begging some college for a $60k/year salary, because no one else would employ you. Today, dozens of companies will happily pay you $300k/year and higher - possibly much higher.

20 years ago, if you were an internal combustion engine designer, you could be making $300k/year at one of a dozen auto makers. Today, you're getting laid off.

Market conditions change, and part of your calculation of what to do as a career is "where is the market going?" This is because it would make no sense to learn how to design ICE engines today, but if you were an electric motor designer, or a robotics engineer, those are jobs that are growing in importance and in monetary compensation. Yet, colleges will still happily take your money and teach you ICE engine design, because they're just after your tuition money, not your future. It's up to each individual person to choose wisely.

Likewise, if you go $100k+ into debt to get a liberal arts degree, you only have yourself to blame when you can't get a job in your field. You have to make smart decisions, especially if you are taking out loans that must be repaid.

[Kingofkings1992]

@MrOracle he’s 31 and still depends on his mother. Yet for some strange reason he thinks he can one up people in an argument like this. Rather amusing

[ChefPapiChulo]

@MrOracle sounds like nonsense to poorly describe how the market determines an employee's worth. some of it was right, like if you threw a dart blindfolded and it somehow landed on the board, but still completely off the target.

[MrOracle]

@ChefPapiChulo I can handle criticism, but you might try to actually argue against specific points rather than some nebulous blanket statement. I look forward to the debate.

[ChefPapiChulo]

@MrOracle i asked you if you can describe how employee worth is determined and you went on a rant. that's not a debate.

[MrOracle]

@ChefPapiChulo That wasn't a rant, it was an answer, with context and examples. It's clear you can't tell the difference.

[Kingofkings1992]

@MrOracle you can’t expect him to read a few paragraphs. You’re making his head spin

[ChefPapiChulo]

@MrOracle do rants not have context and examples lmao? holy shit.

[Kingofkings1992]

@ChefPapiChulo you clearly don’t even understand what a rant is. Lol

[Kingofkings1992]

@chefpapichulo just for future reference, ( although undoubtedly you’ll find another way to make yourself look stupid) a rant is something that is said at RANDOM on something that a person perceives to be wrong with society. It is expressed in an impassioned, angry, and often
uncontrollable manner. Very clearly, @MrOracle is simply responding to a question that YOU asked him. In no way, shape, or form a rant.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Please don’t ever try to explain the meaning of a word ever again.

[Kingofkings1992]

@ChefPapiChulo ok. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink it. I tried to relieve you from further embarrassment, yet you remain stubborn. If you want to continue to make an idiot of yourself, that’s on you bud.

[Bloodfeast]

Wages are determined by competition. Supply and demand.

Economics cannot be escaped. As much as people want to share all the wealth, to do so is IMPOSSIBLE.

We look around and we see the mega rich and we see people starving and wonder why can't we just redistribute the money? Why can some people be rich and some starve to death? Isn't that WRONG?

Well if we were to socialize everything across the planet, the number of people who would starve to death would SKYROCKET.

There really is only one choice. Liberalism, capitalism, free markets.

The ONLY way to bring wealth and prosperity to the most amount of people in the world, the ONLY way to bring the world's impoverished out of poverty, the ONLY way to bring about the best possible life for people on this planet is through capitalism.

Socialism does not work. Communism does not work. Government intervention in the economy in order to satisfy people's desire for morality actually has the opposite effect.

Even in a mixed economy such as the USA where we have free markets, but also we have government interventions in order to "fix the problems" of the market.

But in reality we have not fixed any problems. Poverty still runs rampant in the USA. poverty still runs rampant in every country.

If it was easily fixed it would have been decades ago. The reality is that we need the markets to be as free as possible. For people to get as rich as possible. For poor nations to engage in free trade, to open up their economies.

How can we save poor African countries? How can we save poor Asian countries? How can we save the poor in India?

It's very simple. Those countries need to open up their economies. Free trade is everything. Free trade beings prosperity and food and raises the majority into the middle class.

The socialist and communists are fighting a battle they had better lose or we will starve when they win.

And they are winning.

[Bloodfeast]

FREE TRADE is the engine of prosperity!

All of you people want to tear down capitalism because not everyone is risen up simultaneously. Some will be poor and some will be rich.

Who cares if everyone's life is better? We should Hamstring everyone by cutting the heads off the rich.

Then we will all get to be poor and starving together.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Have you ever taken economist classes?

[Bloodfeast]

I sure have but I was a know it all liberal at the time.

I would have to go back and get a PHD in econ in order to challenge my beliefs now.

[ChefPapiChulo]

lmao what

[Bloodfeast]

Are you stupid or something?

[ChefPapiChulo]

what the fuck are you on about?

[Bloodfeast]

If you dont have anything smart to say move along kid.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Bloodfeast something smart from chefpapichulo? Ha! That will happen when hell freezes over.

[ChefPapiChulo]

You actually think you’re smart lol.

[ChefPapiChulo]

I don’t blame you for wanting to be smart. Being dumb has such a bad stigma.

[Kingofkings1992]

@ChefPapiChulo I couldn’t be as dumb as you if I tried.

[Bloodfeast]

I feel like he's a bot to be honest. Like he's not even interacting or presenting an idea or reacting to an idea.

He's just saying some random things that make no sense.

So I'm going to say he must be a bot or maybe like a little kid pretending to be an adult.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Nice cope.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Bloodfeast well his mother still takes care of him, so there’s that

[Bloodfeast]

I wish I could meet him in real life.

[ChefPapiChulo]

So you can hear me tell you how you lack a basic textbook understanding of economics in person?

[Bloodfeast]

Oh I see. You're a commie.

[Bloodfeast]

If only you would attempt to say one smart thing so I could tear it apart.

[ChefPapiChulo]

so you really think, you have a phd understanding of economics? writing that garbage? that is called being delusional.

[Bloodfeast]

Just waiting for one smart thing. Next one I'm just blocking you.

[ChefPapiChulo]

oh no, dont block me for telling you the truth.

[Bloodfeast]

Blocked him.

I love how people will say "you're wrong" with no argument to back it up.

I can back up everything I say all day.

I challenge anyone to come at me and try to debate with me.

[PetLover24]

Agree

In today's day & age anyone can get a decent education and earn a decent wage. Yes you may have student loans to pay for afterwards, but if you're making 100+k/year and not overspending your salary like a moron it won't take long to repay those loans.

Hell even someone failed high school if they put in enough effort to a physical store or an online business like an online store or blog they can make a good income. Some online stores make 6 figures on a yearly & all they have to do is make sure orders go.

.

The problem with today's society is too many people have their hands out like beggers expecting things to be handed to them rather than work for what they actually deserve.

The only thing, after all, keeping someone from succeeding in life is themselves.

Such people are lazy, ignorant, uneducated, unmotivated, undisciplined, etc. None of this has anything to do with others (or society) but such people are far more adept at blaming everyone and everything else for their failures instead of looking in the mirror.

[SwellStroke]

It's a yes and no, honestly. As truthfully it should be, everyone has a liveable wage regardless of job worked. How to make it happen? Jail the clowns that decide what minimum wage is. Sitting in one of their many houses and driving multiple vehicles, while guaranteed insurance... while also taking special interests "donations" to help shape those hard to decide things they must keep the government running...

Put them on minimum wage and see how quickly things change. Or we do jail em all, or perhaps bring the Guillotine back? Or because this one might be too spicy. The population wake the fuck up and quit re electing those that stop representing the people out. Doesn't matter Rep, Dem, Right Left. All the same body those limbs are attached to.

As it's, everyone's right to live, granted something's must be provided from the self. However, we are also advances enough as a race to know the fuck better than what we are currently doing to one another. If we eliminated the paper banknotes that so much value in, when truly it's made up regardless. Go back to barter, I trade you this thing I can do for something you provide.

But, hey ya guys want to stay in the stagnation the human race is cespooled into, that's your choice. The sooner we decided to hold accountable those responsible, in addition to people checking themselves as well. Especially all the Keyboard warriors that are edgy because they hide behind a screen. 1000% they are likely they weren't born a few decades ago during the Fuck Around And Find Out age.

[Flatmanlewis]

The nature of the work is what should decide if this is true or not. Not every job is going to pay enough I live on, nor should it. I don’t think a part time barista should expect to live of that income. It’s essentially unskilled labor and rates an unskilled labor rate. You get paid for your time and little else.



Now, a career, which requires a specific certification & specialized training should pay more and certainly enough to live on. Paramedics, pilots, firefighters, linemen, police officers, EMTs, train engineers, aircraft mechanics, truck drivers, highway workers, and so on. Society depends on these types of men & women to keep things moving along. You get paid for what you do as well as what you are expected to do in poor weather, on holiday, nights, weekends, and such.


A college diploma based career where a degree is required to even enter the field, doctors, lawyer, dentist, teachers, and so on, absolutely should be able to expect a living wage for their investment. You get paid for what people are willing to pay for as your services dictate. You essentially get to set your own rate.


The only employer who habitually underpays it’s people to a disgusting level is the US military which demands so much of its people yet pays them a menial rate. They absolutely need better pay and tax exempt status.

[WindAtMyBack]

I strongly agree. Just because someone is working doesn't mean they are doing anything useful. Being "owed" a living wage doesn't mean people can do anything they want and expect to make a lot of money.

Plus, this statement is usually used by people who want a wage much higher than they deserve or need. "Living wage" is practically a euphemism for wanting a lot of money without really earning it. People have VERY unrealistic ideas about how much money is needed to live. They want middle class, not a bare minimum like "living wage" implies.

I virtually never hear this term used to truly mean a living wage. It's ALWAYS used by people who want something for nothing. It has nothing to do with an actual living wage.

[Rei13]

A living wage is subjective but in my opinion it should be enough to cover shelter, food, utilities on a budget, inexpensive clothing (like thrift store or Walmart for example), and just basic things. You might not have internet, the newest phone, or even a fully furnished place, for example, but you don’t actually need those things. If you want to do better you have to work for it and not stay in entry level positions. There are a lot of people that are unfortunately incapable of moving past jobs that don’t require skills for whatever reason that still should make enough to survive

[wolfcat87]

All jobs are not created equal. If people want living wages, then they should pick jobs that pay living wages. If they can't be bothered to to the work those jobs entail, then they are not entitled to the wages those jobs pay. People will decide on their own what hardships they want in life, they aren't entitled to anything other than what they work to have. That includes higher wages vs lower.

[kylee2437]

While I do agree with this, I feel like we are living in times where job tasks do not equal the pay they give out and that’s a problem in itself. I remember quitting a job that wanted me to basically reprogram their computer for $12 an hour. Ridiculous

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 That's just it, we all have the option to quit and go somewhere else that pays a different wage. No one is forced to take low paying jobs. If it were government mandated that we take the lowest paying jobs of something, then wanting more would make sense. But, the increased wages would still just be passed down to consumers making the increased wages worth less again.

[arohi20]

@wolfcat87 Please give me reply in dm.. What happened to u?

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 yes I agree but there’s more jobs out there that don’t pay well for what you do than do. Being 100% on the governments side does not make sense at all because the government is constantly trying to throw curve balls at people to live even just an average life.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Are you in the U. S. If so, the U. S. has way too many ways to get ahead and succeed at any level. People come here from poorer countries with nothing and have a degree, own a business and own a house within only 5-10 years. If someone from a poorer country with no familiarity with our system can come here and succeed that well, then everyone else is making excuses rather than focusing on self improvement.

The only government actions that I've seen hurt success are taxes at higher income levels, insurance related issues, and the covid shut down that killed hundreds of thousands of businesses and jobs. Even so, people are still succeeding. There are self made millionaires under 18.

If doing what everyone else is doing isn't working, then do something else. It's not the government's job to keep interfering in the business world. They don't understand business, and the people wanting increased wages and free money don't understand business. Business owners understand what makes the market run best. Think like them. Find a need and fill a need that's in demand and make a better wage that way. If people want to pick the easy way and take lower wages, it's a choice.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 hunny my father is a business owner and owning a business is NOT an easy way out. The fact that the government taught you that one is the real issue. People work tooth and nail on their businesses to SUCCEED. Our health care system is jacked up, housing is jacked up, people can’t even afford to buy groceries. Getting a degree is NOT simple. Getting a degree can even put you in massive amounts of debt for just wanting an education.

People that make the US seem like an easy way to live are very delusional and are puppetted by the word “freedom”

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Except I live in the U. S., and I'm speaking from personal experience. If you think the U. S. is hard to live in, then you're doing it wrong. I went from poor and on welfare to million dollar portfolio in under 15 years while raising two children. That's playing on hard mode and still succeeding. As I said, I know immigrants who came here and did it even faster. You don't even need a degree to do it, and over 20 states offer free college so the debt argument is dumb. I went to college for free, and it was very simple.

It's always funny when people fall back on recent changes to cry about how hard the U. S. is. If someone was over 21 the year before covid hit, thy could have easily bought a house even while working low paying entry jobs. The housing loan they would have qualified for was 180k-200k. Anyone that age or older gets no empathy from me. People who were under 21 might have it a bit harder, but it's still entirely doable.

If I went broke right now, I'd have another house within 5 years and another investment portfolio doing what I've already done. I'd probably be doing even better since I'd have to work harder.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 how entitled of you to say “you are doing it wrong” fYI I’m not speaking on me personally, I’m speaking on the realities of living in the US. I have a well job, I’m doing well for myself. I’m just not too much of a dumb ass like you (no offense) to fully side with a government that is trying to overthrow just being a normal human being. Puppet behavior

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 You know in the English language that "you" in conversation doesn't always mean you specifically.

[Oxford Dictionary] You -

1.
used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
"are you listening?"

used to refer to the person being addressed together with other people regarded in the same class.
"you Australians"
used in exclamations to address one or more people.
"you fools"

2.
used to refer to any person in general.
"after a while, you get used to it"

You're also misusing entitled. Nothing I said fits the definition. What special treatment did I demand or say I deserve?

entitled -

believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them"

If you want to call someone dumb, manage to actually speak the language you're calling them dumb in correctly. Otherwise, it easily proves who's dumb (no offense). I appreciate you taking the times to demonstrate it so well right away.

Considering I'm doing better than the vast majority of people, that would make me the opposite of a puppet. Because, by your logic, or lack of it, if we are all being controlled by the government and they are keeping us from succeeding, then I shouldn't have been able to succeed... Yet, here I am with millions of others doing the same under the exact same government. Not very bright, eh?

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 hunny the “you” was taken personally because you already started off attacking people that are aggravated because their government makes them go above and beyond to live like an average human being. Do you think it’s really normal to work more than actually spend time with your family and your one solitude?

[kylee2437]

I mean seriously people that only see things from government pov are really out of touch of reality even if the reality doesn’t necessarily apply to their current situation.

[kylee2437]

Own solitude?

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 If that's how you choose to interpret it. Most Americans are only working 35 hours a week. That leaves plenty of time for other things. You should educate yourself before making silly claims. If people want mediocre results, they'll put in mediocre effort. Expecting more from doing less is entitled. We are all workaholics and still had plenty of time for kids, travel, fun, volunteering, etc. Work and college after, then work and piloting school after. If people want more, they'll work for more.

www.statista.com/.../

tradingeconomics.com/.../average-weekly-hours

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Also, what are you even talking about? There is no government pov. The government is made up of thousands of individuals with different views. What a weird thing to keep saying. No one has been saying this but you. So bizzarre

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 you are completely out of touch of reality if you think “most Americans only work 35 hours” very out of touch.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Imagine not knowing what a source is or how to read them and calling someone else out of touch or a dumb ass. On top of misunderstanding English words, how the economy works, how the government works, etc. You're hilariously confused.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 the fact that you aren’t addressing the biggest elephant in the room is you siding with the governments way of corrupting your own being. Sure you live comfortably but all it takes is more inflation , possibility of your health being compromised and you are directly back to square one

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 a dumb ass is someone that truly believes people are only working 35 hours. Ridiculous

[kylee2437]

And side note hunny bun, the “good life” you are talking about requires you to work more than 35 hours a week. You really insinuated owning a business is easy to start out with. Just the fantasies you are throwing are bizarre

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 None of that would have an effect on me. I planned well. Most of my incomes adjust for inflation and don't rely on me being healthy.

I've addressed everything you've said no matter how insane, uninformed, or ridiculous. You're clearly obsessed with the government. I have little to do with the government. So, wouldn't that make you the one... you know what Nvm. XD

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat78 “obsessed with the government” the back ground in your profile pic looks like you are in an average income to below house but you are over here talking like you are some hierarchy millionaire. I can not.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Oh, you poor summer child... The richest man I know lives in a small 1,060 square foot house with 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom in a middle class neighborhood. He's in the top 1%. Even Warren Buffet still has his old middle class home he bought decades ago. His net worth is 118.3 billion. You wouldn't know what wealth looks like if it bit you. So much ignorance in one person...

As for the bathroom in my picture, it was an AirBnB while on a trip. I took the pic right before either my Syrian or Mexican boyfriend came to pick me up. Not sure which.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 yeah except I already said I grew up with a father that is a wealthy business owner and showed me the realities of what owning a business is like to the point where I don’t throw around ignorant comments like “just own a business” . Thank god he taught me not to be a stuck up dumb ass

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 "the back ground in your profile pic looks like you are in an average income to below house but you are over here talking like you are some hierarchy millionaire. I can not. " This was an incredibly stuck up comment.

Your father isn't you. Imagine trying to ride his coattails so hard as if you actually did anything... Like a name dropping wanna be. Gross.

Also, your father's business is obviously not every business. I don't just have a "wealthy business father" who taught me a little about one thing. I'm surrounded by business owners of every type and level. All businesses are not the same. The mom and pop grocery store down the street is not the same an an international import/export business, and neither are the same as running Apple. This isn't rocket science.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 bitch I never said my father is me, I am simply saying that if owning a business was as easy as you made it out to be corporates wouldn’t be running average people down to the ground to keep their business afloat , but you wouldn’t understand that perspective but again your perspective is someone that sits out of touch of reality

[kylee2437]

And hunny that statement was made because I am willing to bet you still an average life for someone that has to nasty hierarchy of a mindset. It’s ridiculous.

[kylee2437]

Still have an average life*

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 "if owning a business was as easy as you made it out to be corporates wouldn’t be running average people down to the ground to keep their business afloat" You mean hiring employees to do jobs that the business requires? That has nothing to do with if it's easy to run the business or not.

You've mentioned your father over and over, but your father is not here having this conversation, and you do not have his business experience at all. So, you are indeed riding his coattails to try to look better while having no clue what you're actually talking about. I'd happily have a conversation with him and joke about what you've said here. I guarantee he wouldn't agree.

Wouldn't the bitter, resentful person who is so angry at the government and others be the one with the average life? Rather than the one who is happy because everything is going well for her. Make it make sense. You don't hear me crying.

Too much delusion happening here. Nothing you say matches any facts. I've had multiple sources backing what I say. You have nothing but whining about how hard life is.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 oh I’m sorry my 60 year old father working 12 hours a day to keep his business afloat isn’t enough to make such statements of “running a business isn’t easy”

Neither is my example of “if running a business is easy, then why do corporates run average people to the ground to keep their businesses afloat”

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 and hunny you don’t know my life, I’m just a person that knows how to I don't know put myself into shoes of other people around them and can admit to when something is corrupt. You think it’s normal to walk out of the grocery store with 10-15 items and it be almost $100?

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Again, your father isn't every business owner. And, his business isn't every business. We just went over this a minute ago. Read.

Companies have employees do the maximum work because it's cost effective. Obviously. Has nothing to do with business being hard and everything to do with maximum profits.

I know what you've written here, and you knew nothing about what you were talking about. You're the only one who's tried to make assumptions about my life, and they were wrong as well.

No, if you could put yourself into the shoes of others then you would be able to put yourself into my shoes. XD But, you can't put yourself into the shoes of others.

Depends on what they are buying. I could buy 15 items for $30 or one item for $100. That's always been the case. Maybe they should choose better.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 it simply doesn’t matter the simple fact that businesses hire managers to do the dirty work of a business goes to simply show simply owning a business is NOT simple. The fact that the far right use “just own a business” is so problematic and ridiculous.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 I was once in your shoes with this arrogant mindset until I realized there’s a fuck ton of ugliness of government intent. You think women only getting two months of maternity and that’s only if they qualify is normal?

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Wait, so you think delegating tasks to others means a business isn't simple? No, it's called scaling a business and delegating to do so. People can run businesses without doing either.

Another baseless assumption. First you assume I'm pro gov, then you assume I'm not wealthy, then you jump to me being far right. I'm a moderate independent, although I doubt you're capable of comprehending what that is at this point... Ironically, the far right are anti-government which contradicts your earlier claims and assumptions.

The government isn't deciding who gets maternity leave... Business owners like your dad are. Guess people like him have "a fuck ton of ugliness of intent" rather than just a desire to get things done.

Also, how many kids do you have again? I have 2, and 6 weeks was enough time off even with a c-section. One of my friends has 4 children, and she wanted to be back to work 2 weeks after giving birth. I didn't qualify for leave, I just said I'll be gone this long. If you want me back after, then great. If you don't I'll find another job in that time. Simple. They wanted me back.

You are arrogant, because the definition of arrogance includes "an exaggerated sense" of one's own importance or abilities. I happily admit that my confidence appears arrogant to those who have not accomplished anything, but at least mine is based on facts and personal accomplishments. Your arrogance has no foundation in reality and hasn't been earned in any way. That's why you misinterpret mine. We are not the same, babe.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 a moderate independent doesn't tie themselves down to the fact that it’s their own peoples fault when the biggest problem is our government. If your answer doesn’t address two sides, there’s no way on earth you are an independent. you are a person that positions more far right but doesn’t want to admit to it because you know far right is wrong

[kylee2437]

I have no kids because I’m a responsible 26 year old and don’t let men cum inside me for the sake of having kids without marriage. Try again with throwing insults about having kids

[kylee2437]

An arrogant person is a person that blames their own people but doesn’t address that you have normalized government malpractice in your country because you are comfortable with the way YOU are living vs the reality of how many Americans are living. That’s arrogance

[kylee2437]

But again pretty shameful that you are a mother and normalized the idea of working class people only being able to fully 100% care for their children for two months of their lives

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 You clearly don't know what a moderate independent is. We aren't a party or bound by any specific beliefs. Duh. We can believe and support anything we want. This is right up there with you assuming how wealthy people live. So many ignorant beliefs with nothing backing them. There aren't just two sides, that's a bipartisan belief system that I don't agree to.

independent - free from outside control; not depending on another's authority.

moderate - make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent.

You hold extreme views, so you are the opposite of a moderate. Those views depend on a system you believe in and ascribe everything to, so you are not independent.

Seeing as you don't what what any of these things are, then by deduction you are far left.

You don't seem to know what an insult is either.

insult - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.

Pointing out that you don't know what maternity leave mothers have when you are in no way a mother is a simple fact. It's not an insult. How did you graduate not knowing English?

I posted the definition of arrogant for you already, you're still using it wrong. Imagine thinking you know more than a dictionary. The same way you thought you knew more than studies I posted as sources. Delusion is making things up as you go along and assuming the rest of the world is supposed to agree to follow your delusions while you ignore the rest of the world. That's not how it works, and there's therapy for that...

delusion - a false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, occurring especially in mental conditions.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 And, you're putting words in my mouth again. Parents can work opposite shifts and still care for their kids 100% of the time. Assuming it should be without sacrifice, free, or paid for anyone else is called being entitled. An earlier word you used incorrectly but is now properly being used.

Now, if they both want 100% of their time to devote to kids, they should be "responsible" like you and not have any until they have enough money to do so on their own merits.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 except I’m an independent. Independents hold views of multiple perspectives. If you view my actual comment I said a person shouldn’t be stagnant with jobs however there’s direct corruptness in our government. The fact that you make every excuse to ignore government corruptness goes to show you aren’t an independent, you have direct right extreme views that warp you from being able to see government flaws

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 how disgusting you again you put blame towards your own people instead of realizing 2 month maternity leave only if qualified is NOT normal.

[kylee2437]

And side note for a person that makes questions based on if a businessman should be president and saying things like “ I don’t think they would look out for normal people” you sure as hell don’t even look out for “normal” people yourself

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 There's no rule for Independents other than not agreeing to any party.

You keep bringing up government. I only mentioned them earlier when stating,

"Are you in the U. S. If so, the U. S. has way too many ways to get ahead and succeed at any level. People come here from poorer countries with nothing and have a degree, own a business and own a house within only 5-10 years. If someone from a poorer country with no familiarity with our system can come here and succeed that well, then everyone else is making excuses rather than focusing on self improvement.

The only government actions that I've seen hurt success are taxes at higher income levels, insurance related issues, and the covid shut down that killed hundreds of thousands of businesses and jobs. Even so, people are still succeeding. There are self made millionaires under 18.

If doing what everyone else is doing isn't working, then do something else. It's not the government's job to keep interfering in the business world. They don't understand business, and the people wanting increased wages and free money don't understand business. Business owners understand what makes the market run best. Think like them. Find a need and fill a need that's in demand and make a better wage that way. If people want to pick the easy way and take lower wages, it's a choice."

Nothing I said matches what you keep pushing obsessively.

Also, plenty of right wing people believe in corruption. That's why they wouldn't wear masks and were anti vaxx. It's also why they are more anti government than people on the left who tend to be pro more government. You don't even know the views while lecturing me. It's ignorant as usual. You didn't even bother to learn the different perspectives you claim to. You're not independent so much as just uninformed. Also, as an Independent I don't feel the need to hate on either party nearly as hard as you do the right. Meaning you are a left leaning independent if anything.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 “I hate so hard on the right” meanwhile I think wearing a mask is unhealthy AND while I’m not anti vaxx I refuse to put that made too quick vaccine into my body. Corrupt is when you make an excuse for something as simple as 2 month maternity *only if qualified, like you did there

[kylee2437]

Honey the point is , is you can’t you “people are too lazy” as an argument all the time when in reality there’s certain government rules that do not side with someone living a normal life. It’s just a fact.

[kylee2437]

You can’t use*

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 You don't speak for mothers when you aren't one. You also don't define what is normal. Society does, and in this society it is normal. In most it's not even an option. So, do stop trying to represent us. No one asked you to, it's disgusting and not normal to lecture a mother on what mothers need when you're childless.

You are really enjoying stalking my profile. First my picture and now my questions. Do enjoy the tour.

I am a normal person. Always have been. You keep trying to separate me from what's normal. I'm just a normal person who decided to make abnormal decisions in order to do better. It's working. Anyone can do it.

It's not my job to look out for anyone kids, family, friends, and myself. That's a communist ideology. I've tried communism, and it's overrated. Luckily, we live in a society where you are welcome to move to a commune and live the ideal you want. No one is stopping you. You're also welcome to move to a country whose ideals fit you.

What you're not welcome to do is try to dictate that others "wipe your bottom for you and carry you" when you refuse to do it yourself. That's gross and abnormal.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 why would I want to be a mother pointlessly when there’s mothers like you that think a 2 month maternity period is nothing alarming and corrupt? Doesn’t it take a village to raise children? Why would I want to raise a child so pointlessly?

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 What EXACT government rules are preventing "normal" people from becoming wealthy and succeeding? It's happening every day, so it's obviously not preventing anyone from doing anything. But, I'll humor you.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 you are giving “my husband is rich and I’m a stay at home mother “ heavily speaking. Out of reality

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Actually, it only takes one person to raise a child. The rest are just a bonus.

More delusional assumptions to make yourself feel better when you can't actually prove your points with any valid sources, facts, or even life experiences of your own. As usual. A person will never be educated or intelligent if they just make things up to fit the biases and made up facts in their head. That's disconnected from reality and delusion. I'm happy to research my positions, speak to people with experience, and experience things first hand in order to better form a fact based opinion on a topic. If I don't have any of that backing what I think, then I don't have any strong opinion.

I see you can't name any government rules. Just as I said.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 yeah take away your rich husband from your life and I’m sure you would be less delusional

[kylee2437]

Insinuating it takes one person to raise a child meanwhile it takes two people to make one is as delusional as it gets

[Kingofkings1992]

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Two words SPERM BANK. Women get pregnant and have kids on our own all the time. A single woman can raise multiple kids. So, yes, it only takes one person to raise a child.

No one mentioned a rich husband but you. When I met my husband, he only made $25,000 a year. We are wealthy because we both became wealthy over time while married. You'd understand how that works if you'd ever done it. Or anything worth mentioning for that matter.

But, let's play this game. I make $60k a year if I don't even get out of bed, lift a finger, or leave the house. Just talking to you, I am still making money.

That doesn't include his money or investment portfolio at all. It also does not include appreciation on any of my assets. And, my assets are beautiful.

If and when I choose to go to work, I make $80-$120 hr plus tips and gifts. The other incomes are variable depending on how much I choose to work and market. All can be done during the same period.

So, honey, I'd be well off with or without my husband. If you can't comprehend it, it's only because you have not done it.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 honey I’m willing to bet you are only wealthy because of your husband with your delusional povs. Our word is nearly suffering of mental health problems because parents todays normalizing the idea of single person parenting, children and parents suffering but again you are too out of touch of reality to notice the world around you. Straight up delusional

[kylee2437]

Our world *

[kylee2437]

$60k is average income so yeah you are only rich because of your husband honey. Delusional

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Too dumb for words. Your dad failed.

What you meant to say was median household income with two working adults both earning income is similar to what I make if I don't work at all. So, me sitting at home doing nothing and earning that amount if I don't work means literally nothing to you.

Me going out and working and earning $80-$120 hour also didn't register with your poor brain. 90% of people make $29 hr or less. 95% make less than $58 hr. I make double that in one hour of working on top of the 60k I make if I don't.

You also clearly don't know what assets are... Elon Musk has 243 billion in ASSETS. He does not have 243 billion in cash. He could choose not to touch any of those assets and only make $5 a year if he wanted to. Hence my self apportioned wage being exactly what I want it to be.

Yes, I get that mental health problems are right in front of me now. I did mention seeking therapy as an option. That's what your wealthy daddy is for. Wait, he wasn't a single parent? And, his kid still came out like this? Whoa... I guess single parenting has nothing to do with it!

[Kingofkings1992]

You ladies started off very civil. How did this conversation get to be so hostile?

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 my dad failed but I have no kids as a 26 year old, paying for my own college, make more money than the average person my age, bought my own stuff, can work on my own car own, and has no crime records , and I believe it takes two parents to raise a child.

A person that believes only one person can raise a kid is definitely the failed child but 🤷🏻‍♀️

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 your wealthy husband allows you to spend your whole day having delusional thoughts. Hopefully he cheats on you soon

[wolfcat87]

Some people become very defensive when wrong and lash out when they perceive their egos as being under attack. Some people bite back when bitten rather than retreating. Humans, am I right? XD

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 no your whole mindset comes from privilege and acting like your husband isn’t your main income source. I’m willing to bet you take your husband out of your life and you are just the average bitch you are causing all this chatter about.

[kylee2437]

Again, I hope your husband cheats on you. Would be amazing karma

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 It takes a very bitter and sad person to wish for harm on others. Unfortunately, none of the things you listed have made you a happy or good person. Just privileged, judgmental, and looking for reason to hate others. Seek help before you hurt yourself more.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 I hope he cheats on you ☺️

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Enjoy the hater fan club, because you have to be off the charts jealous to be that angry that someone else is doing well and happily married to someone also doing well. But, we both know you only hate me because you will NEVER have even a fraction of what I do. You can hate until you turn blue and rot in the grave, but it won't change how good I or anyone else has it compared to you. Being ugly, twisted, and hateful on the inside is why karma rewarded me instead of you. You have time to change that, good luck!

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat78 I have no words left for you, your husband cheating on you would be amazing. Single mother you right up. Walk the talk you give to others.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 If my husband and I were to magically split up after nearly 17 years of marriage over something as silly as cheating, then I could be remarried the day after the divorce papers were finalized. It's not like I don't have options lined up waiting for the opportunity. There are wealthier men than my husband in my life that I've dated and still speak to, read back to the earlier example of "wealthiest person I know". He messaged yesterday asking me to come to his new lakefront property and sail with him. I gave him a hard time instead.

That being said, my husband is as monogamous as they come. I couldn't get him to sleep with other women even when I tried.

Even if I decided to stay single, I make more than 90% of people even single and not working... If I choose to work, it's more than 95%. I would still have all of my assets. I explained this in crayon for you earlier. I'm good either way.

I've done the single mother thing. Like I said, went back to work after 6 weeks, and worked while going to college full time. It's entirely doable. There are single mothers who built mutli million dollar companies while raising their kids. We all walk the talk, that's why we're doing well. Maybe try walking our talk and do better?

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 yeah that’s exactly why I’m picky and single because people in this generation replace people like they never even loved them in the first place. Saying that you would remarry when a divorce is finalized meanwhile having children with that said person is CRAZY. Despicable generation.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 relying on men doesn’t make you wealthy, it makes you codependent but to each their own. Delusional.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Lady, stop selectively reading, "Even if I decided to stay single, I make more than 90% of people even single and not working... If I choose to work, it's more than 95%. I would still have all of my assets. I explained this in crayon for you earlier. I'm good either way."

I never said I rely on men. You said I did. I just enjoy the benefits of marriage, so why would I want to be single? Been there, and done that. It's overrated. You might as well being saying that being wealthy makes someone codependent on money or having a car or house makes someone codependent on those things... Which is dumb.

The insanity of hoping for a hypothetical scenario that won't happen and being angry when someone has a hypothetical rebuttal. You're funny.

My children are nearly adults. One turns 18 in a year. They already act like adults, more than you even, and have for years. They would be fine and don't care either way. Whether we stay married or not has no real effect on their quality of life. So, not sure what illogical thought process made that relevant.

As for my husband, we love each other. You're the one hoping for a split. If that unlikely situation happened, we'd still love and support each other even if I remarried. That's one of the reasons why a divorce doesn't make sense in our futures.

Suuure you're single because you're "picky" and not because high quality men are avoiding you... Whatever helps you sleep alone at night all angry and bitter.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 honey boo the idea of a “high quality” male is subjective because what everyone wants in a relationship is different. There is no such thing as one “high value male”

[kylee2437]

And more importantly you openly admitted to not being the most loyal woman out there and on top of that you have questions on here that are in regards to your own breasts. So more importantly just because you make supposedly “high income” doesn’t mean you are even a high quality woman. Married for 17 years and you have posted your breasts on this website asking if outfits are too revealing. Attention seeking

[kylee2437]

And as the fact that you throw around the idea that there’s only one good kind of guy out there is such pick me behavior, but I’m done replying after this. Hopefully your husband has been cheating on you because he deserves someone much better than you

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 I never said there was one kind. That's how you choose to interpret it. I just said high value. The opposite of low value. Either way, not one of them is with you. 🤣

Pick me is catering to everyone guy in order to be picked. I didn't do that any more than you posted the laws you claim keep people poor after being asked to multiple times.

When you've been married 17 years, you can tell me what loyal looks like. Yet another thing you have no experience with or understanding of while trying to lecture others blindly while never having committed to anyone in your life. Dumb.

Imagine being so unaccomplished and lecturing everyone who's done more than you on what they should have been doing... Which in your narcissistic and delusional mind is being forever alone, uninformed, and unaccomplished just like you. Funnyyyyy 💩🤡 No one wants to be like you. You don't even want to be like you, that's why you're so miserable. 😂

I didn't post my breasts, my little jelly stalker. You really spent all day obsessing over me, this conversation, and my profile. 🤣 I posted my outfit and asked a question about it. You chose to sexualize it, enjoy the view.

Attention seeking is posting over 30 responses to me whining about my money and marriage today instead of just answering the question of "What exact laws keep people poor?". 🙄 Pitiful

I never said I was a high quality woman. My husband does though.

Thank goodness, the bitter witch is dead. 🫠🎉 Byeee

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 pick me behavior is making fun of me for being single meanwhile you were 17 years old and knocked up. Yuck

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Where did you get knocked up at 17 from? 🤣 Math fail. I was definitely an adult.

That's not what pick me means... Pick me is catering to men to be chosen. Chosen like you haven't been. I don't need to be a pick me, because I'm already married and have never had an issue finding great partners. You wouldn't understand.

You being single isn't the issue. Being bitter, miserable and unwanted because your personality is wretched is. 😒 Single when you have great options is very different from single when you don't...

If you weren't so jealous and angry about the lives of others to the point of spending an entire day obsessing over them, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But, in spite of all of your bad behavior, I'll still go to bed very loved and wanted tonight. Secure in that love for life. I still have everything I have in life. And, you'll still go to bed just being you and hating that I'm me. 🤷‍♀️ Beautiful Karma 🥰

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 35-18 is 17, unless you are lying about your age? Actually nope I’m single because I’m picky and not settling just to accommodate people like you that think being single is worst case scenario. You think being single is so terrible you would be married after finalizing divorce papers. Literal insanity

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 https://youtu.be/JfFeEcbHEVs?si=PsYtQC-bgAI7f8JF

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 I said they aren't 18 yet. 🤣

Never said single is terrible. I said I enjoy the perks of marriage. Something you know nothing about and probably never will.

I did say your type of single is awful. The bitter and angry kind. That's the worst kind.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 who cares? Being married is all you know and you think it’s the best life as if people aren’t living better than you are but AGAIN this boils down to you not taking a look at people around you because you are too self absorbed , you can’t see anything from outside your own box.

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat78 honey bun you don’t know me in real life. I could’ve been married with children at age 21, but he wasn’t making me happy and wasn’t who I was looking for in a man. Dodged that bullet. No thank you.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 I already said I've been single, so it's clearly not all I know. 🤣

Having a marriage and family are the opposite of self absorbed 🤣🤣🤣

Hey, if it means I'm not stalking and obsessing over some stranger all day then I'm good with my box, thousands of acquaintances, friends, and family from traveling 40 states and multiple continents, and statistics. Their perspectives and shared experiences are great. Not sure what's in your box, but it's not much and you can keep it. 😁

Having a total of one single option that sucked isn't making the point you think it is...

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 having view points that navigate towards only how you feel when it’s about world problems is called being self absorbed

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 and again the point being is I’m not getting in a relationship just to accommodate how people like you feel about me.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 You mean like yours? Running around making up reality while ignoring facts? That's as self absorbed as it gets. I look outward for answers, do my research, read studies that include the experiences of millions. You ignore everything outside of yourself when inventing your answers. Which is why you ignored any experience from others and all studies to the contrary of what you stated. 😆

Then, you couldn't come up with a single source outside of yourself to answer a simple question brought up 4 times now. 🥴 Instead of answering or acknowledging that you managed to be wrong on everything you stated today, and update your viewpoints to match the facts like a normal person when wrong, you got angry. Signs of an incredible fragile and bitter ego steeped in delusion. Seek help

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 actually you did what every self absorbed social media person does and found articles that fit your POV without actually asking yourself if it’s bold to automatically assume and the accuracy of that article stating majority of Americans only work 35 hours.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Anyways, some of us have lives and families. I'm going to go have great sex and get cuddled while spending quality time with my lover.

You go do whatever someone like you does alone at night. 😝 Goodniiight

[kylee2437]

@wolfcat87 or maybe it’s just time for you to go to sleep. Let’s not state you have a life better than mine when you also sat here all day equally arguing about how your life is so much better than everyone else’s.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 How many sources did you have others than you? ZERO. Forever alone, literally nothing worthwhile with you. The federal census isn't an "article". Too dumb of a statement for words. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 If you can't tell what the census is, there's no hope.

[wolfcat87]

@kylee2437 Okay kiddo, night

[Kingofkings1992]

Ugh 😑. Will you ladies just block each other already? I thought this was over hours ago.

[wolfcat87]

Already blocked her.

[Iron_Man]

Phew it’s over

[Malwi93]

lol what? do u really think everything is within ones control like that?

[wolfcat87]

@Malwi93 For most people, absolutely. Thinking it's not is self limiting. There are exceptions like people with some illnesses or severe disabilities, but they are the exception and not the rule.

[Malwi93]

so "life is not fair" did not hit u yet

[wolfcat87]

@Malwi93 It hits everyone. We all get curve balls and obstacles thrown at us regularly. Who ever claimed that life is fair? Fussing over it is just a victim mentality. You deal with the punches as they come and just keep going. sitting around crying over it just, again, limits yourself and what you accomplish making life even harder. If we all did that the second life got hard, we'd all just sit around and die.

[nastyb]

If everyone were gauranteed a living wage, why would anyone go to college? why would anyone work hard to achieve anything? you will just raise generations of idiots.

if you tell someone that they can live a perfectly good life doing the absolute bare minimum, they will have no motivation to achieve anything in life.

This is what happened in the communism.

I worked my ass off trying to get out of poverty. Dont tell me that you're gonna hand out free money just because the lazy people threw a tantrum and demanded free money.

[Rei13]

And why should everyone go to college anyways? It is just a lot of debt and you’re not guaranteed a good job. A lot of the most successful people I know do not have a college degree and a lot of the ones who do ended up somewhere that had nothing to do with what they went to school for, but that is a different discussion lol. I just think the whole college argument is silly.

Otherwise obviously communism is bad but everyone should be able to make a livable wage regardless of what their skill set is. If you work at McDonald’s you should still be able to afford a roof over your head, basic utilities, food, clothes, and just basic necessities in general. Might not be able to afford furniture, internet, that newest phone, etc but still something you can survive off of. If you want a better lifestyle then you have to work for it. You don’t know what someone else’s circumstances are that put them in a minimum wage job but that person could still be working their ass off.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

Because I went to college and I now make more money than i ever made my entire life.

you need a college degree to become a nurse, teacher, CPA, CFA, doctor, lawyer, social worker, counselor, therapist, psychologist,

none of these things will ever change. degrees are required BY LAW if you want to practice as any one of those.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

[If you work at McDonald’s you should still be able to afford a roof over your head, basic utilities, food, clothes, and just basic necessities in general. ]

you will just raise a generation of idiots if you are going to tell people that they will be entirely fine being lazy and doing the bare minimum.

nobody will have the incentive to work hard for a better life if you keep handing out free money.

we already have welfare... which is already free money. I can tell you that people on welfare are one of the laziest, most uneducated, low class people ever. Poor people are poor because they REFUSE to try to get ahead in life.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

if you're unwilling to work hard for better career, you deserve to suffer.

nothing good comes in life without hard work.

if you don't want to work hard for it, you do not deserve it.

period...

i never received free money from anyone. I worked my ass off for everything I had.

[Rei13]

There are quite a few people I know with bachelor degrees making 50k (or less) a year and others who taught themselves coding that make over six figures without a college degree lol. I make good money without one as well. Sure there are careers that need it, but there are plenty that do not if you’re intelligent enough to figure those ones out where you’re not putting yourself into debt. So needing a degree to succeed at life is stupid, but if there is a career you want that needs it do so

Also congratulations that you never in your life got help for anything (which I highly doubt) and succeeded. That doesn’t mean that other people don’t deserve to be able to make a living that are not successful. You can work hard and get stuck at a job you didn’t see yourself staying at. I worked close to minimum wage when I was in my late teens/early twenties and supported myself off that until I was able to get something better. The whole point of minimum wage is to still be able to survive off that even if it isn’t ideal and then you work hard and get a little lucky to put yourself in a better position later. I hope you’re never in a situation where you have to work the lower jobs and hit a tough spot, heck if you do maybe you can starve and be miserable and get a taste of your own medicine lol. It is easy to judge when you’re looking down on other people and not in their situation

[nastyb]

@Rei13

I have worked low wage jobs. Thats why I went to college to try to get a better career. If I were working job at McDonalds and got everything I needed out of that, I would never need to go to college.

I do look down on lazy entitled people like you. People who only know how to demand things but never work hard for it. Every successful person I know have SACRIFICED themselves for their success at some point in life. This is what poor broke people like you don't understand. Nothing good in life comes without hard work. This is what the rich , successful people understand

doctors don't make a ton of money by playing around in their youth. Donald trump didn't hit millions by playing video games after work everyday. In fact, he spent 90% of his life at work. Jeff Bezos didn't create amazon by working as few hours as possible. I didn't get a high paying job by just working 8 hours a day then coming home to party all night.

Plenty of us have succeed by going to college, by working hard to achieve something more. It doesn't happen overnight. Many of us need multiple college degrees, multiple certifications. We are people who have never given up. Its the people who work hard and NEVER GIVE UP that are successful in life.

Not lazy idiots like you who demand free things and go for easy certificates where you can make 100k in a few weeks.

First way to make a lot of money is to show respect to education. If you never show respect to education or learning, you will never make any money.

[Rei13]

Honestly the fact that you turned to calling people idiots in general just goes to show that you’re not very intelligent. I feel sorry for you.

[Rei13]

You’re also extremely close minded which also indicates that as well. An intelligent person would know that there are multiple ways to be successful at life even if it doesn’t fit into one person’s narrow view of the world. But that is the besides the point. I just know that I am lot more successful than my friends that graduated with their bachelors and I don’t have all the debt that goes with it. I hope talking to a random person on the internet made you feel better about yourself 🙂

[Rei13]

I still stand that everyone deserves to be able to make a livable wage at whatever employment they find themselves at even if you feel that way. I guess the alternative would be giving them welfare instead and you can just pay more in taxes for it 🙂

[nastyb]

@Rei13

[Honestly the fact that you turned to calling people idiots in general just goes to show that you’re not very intelligent. I feel sorry for you.]

Don't tell me to not call you an idiot because "idiots don't exist".

Idiots exist. And you are one.

Don't try to insult me back for calling you what you actually are.

[An intelligent person would know that there are multiple ways to be successful at life even if it doesn’t fit into one person’s narrow view of the world. ]

there is no way to become successful at life without education / learning.

[ I hope talking to a random person on the internet made you feel better about yourself ]

I already feel better about myself because I'm no longer in poverty. I don't need to talk to you in order to feel better about myself. Maybe you would feel better about yourself if you weren't so broke.

[I still stand that everyone deserves to be able to make a livable wage at whatever employment they find themselves at even if you feel that way.]

your employer won't give you a livable wage because they don't think you deserve a livable wage. you are paid what you are worth to the company. The more money you help your employer make, the more you get paid. The less money you help your employer make, the less you get paid.

Don't say you're worth a million bucks if you aren't worth anything.

you think working at McDonalds 8 hrs a day is hard?

try working 8 hours then going to school for 4 hours then coming home to do homework and study for another 4 hours. Sleep for 4 hours. Then go back to work.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

[I guess the alternative would be giving them welfare instead and you can just pay more in taxes for it]

even if i paid more taxes, my life would better than your life on welfare.
the richer you are, the more ways you can evade taxes. Owning real estate rental property is one way to evade taxes.

[nastyb]

Vast majority of broke people like you in america don't even qualify for welfare. Being paid minimum wage , working 40 hours a week will not qualify you for welfare.

[Rei13]

Honestly I think it is hilarious that you think I am broke just because I disagree with you. How silly. It goes to show that college doesn’t fix stupid. I also don’t think running on four hours of sleep is something to brag about. Congratulations you worked and went to school. You must feel so good about yourself. I worked three jobs in my early twenties and quit them once I got to where I am at now. It is pretty miserable when you lose track of what day it is because of how much you’re working. Don’t really understand how that is a flex

[nastyb]

@Rei13

I don't think I'm stupid because if I were stupid... I would still be broke- which I'm not.

I know you are broke because you clearly don't have values of hard work and perseverance. You have an entitled attitude where you believe the entire world owes you something. You think money is supposed to be free and grow on trees.

You have nothing to flex about which is why you're demanding free money.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

[Congratulations you worked and went to school. You must feel so good about yourself.]

of course i feel proud of myself. i feel proud because im not a lazy asshole.

[Rei13]

I am glad that you don’t think you’re unintelligent. Thanks for the free entertainment 🙂

[Rei13]

Also please brush up on your comprehension skills, they could use some work.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

I can clearly see you have ran out ideas for personal attacks. Now, its random name calling for you.

I'm glad I have made you to realize how unintelligent you really are and the real reason why you're broke.

you're broke because you're lazy. period. Nobody owes you anything.

[nastyb]

@Rei13

[Also please brush up on your comprehension skills, they could use some work.]

if you improved on your reading comprehension skills, you wouldn't be begging for free money.

[Rei13]

I’m getting bored tbh. Feel free to reread early comments and see if you’re able to comprehend what other people are writing and not regurgitating back to me what I wrote to you. Especially if you think me saying that I am glad you think that you’re not unintelligent is calling you names lol. Have a good night

[nastyb]

@Rei13

if you were so good at comprehending what I wrote, you wouldn't be broke.

just the truth...

if you had done better in school, you would be in a better place.

[gorydetails]

This whole “living wage” thing is so crazy. First, it’s completely subjective. No one can even define what is a ‘Living wage’. Second, do teenagers who live at home with their parents and have all of their needs met also qualify for this “living wage”? If so, why? For people who are not teenagers and have worked for 4+ years…. why are you still at the lowest rung? Are you lazy? Stupid?

[Kingofkings1992]

Fair points

[Soteris]

There are plenty of people who have defined what a living wage is. For example this:
www.eurofound.europa.eu/.../ef18064en.pdf

If you never had it explained to you then perhaps you are not qualified to have an opinion on this topic?

[madhatters4]

a living wage is objective adjusted only for where a person lives. obviously children aren't factored into this as they aren't allowed to work full time and aren't the primary earner for their household.

[Exterminatore]

Good points.

[purplepoppy]

If people can't live then they can't work. No one goes to work just to make their boss rich, they have to be able to support themselves and have something left over to make the effort worthwhile. Without that, they just say fuck it and everyone loses.
Anything less than a living wage is effectively slavery.

[Kingofkings1992]

Not quite that black and white

[Amuere]

It is. Effectively work is to make the owners of the company rich, they give you just enough to struggle on. It is a fear tactic that gives them power over employees, they get to use your labor for pennies on the dollar, and can dispose of you at their leisure, while severely de-incentivizing you leaving (before they are read to drop you) because you probably live barely better than paycheck to paycheck and can't risk a break in the measley consistent income you scrap by on.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Amuere so a teenager with no work experience bagging groceries should be paid $20/ hour? Lmao

[Amuere]

They should be paid at least living wage matched to their local area, the type of job is irrelevant. If that's $20/hour for a certain location, then so be it.

I'm not saying all jobs + experience should be reduced to that, I'm saying that should be the starting point.

[purplepoppy]

If that teen finds all his wages are going on nothing more than keeping him alive and bus fares to work then there's the risk he'll turn to crime instead.

[Amuere]

Oh yes, but our culture is obsessed with the idea of working yourself to death for pennies (and being proud of it!!!). But if you're poor that's just your fault you lazy prole.

[MrOracle]

It's expensive to live alone in California, but, for example, anyone who can work hard and has ANY experience using basic tools can get an entry-level construction job making $30/hour, and be making $60/hour ($120,000 a year) within 5 years. BUT... it's hard, dirty, and sometimes dangerous work, and so most young people don't want to do it. They want to sit in an air-conditioned office and drink free latte's and surf the web and get paid a "living wage" to do so. And for a while, many were able to do just that, but that free ride is mostly over.

The point is: the potential to earn a living wage is available to just about everyone - but most people aren't willing to humble themselves below the white-collar executive lifestyle they envisioned for themselves - and so many are broke and others are unemployed - despite a hundred thousand unfilled job openings.

[Amuere]

@MrOracle yes, humble yourself before your corporate overloads while they wring you out like a wet towel. Funny how it's the people actually working asked to "be humble".

The idea that the current generation is lazy is far from the case, the economy and job market are not as they once were, where you could find a job and make a life career out of it. Most places have high turnover because the companies offer garbage pay, little if any benefits, and no opportunity for advancement... i. e they aren't something you can work and develop yourself in for the long haul.

[MrOracle]

@Amuere It's no different today then it was for me - my generation had exactly the same problems. You're talking about the Baby Boomer generation.

Anyway, you don't have to work for a corporate overlord - you can start your own business and work directly for your customers. That's what I did. I'm no billionaire, but I am my own boss, and I don't have to deal with dumb leaders, office politics, or micromanagement. The downside is that I'm 100% responsible for everything, and if I don't do all of my various jobs, my company will crash and burn. But I wouldn't trade it, and my customers love me and refer me to their friends.

[Amuere]

@MrOracle I sincerely am glad for you, self employment is the most liberating form of labor.

[Anpu23]

If someone is working a full time job it absolutely must cover the basics; food, housing, transportation and medical.

if people can't make it we end up with homelessness, starvation, and reliance on social safety nets. Which just shifts the burden on those who are doing well.

And for many years in the US minimum wage did. But three things happened about simultaneously. 1 easy access to credit 2 the standardization of a two income household, and 3 the breaking of the power of labor unions.

[libsaretards]

I disagree with this statement. Nobody will perform well at a job if that job takes up their time and STILL fails to provide enough to take care of needs.

However, there is a difference between a living wage and making enough to live in luxury. A "living wage" is a wage that is enough to afford cheap food, utilities and rent in maybe the not so nice neighborhoods. Literally just basic shelter and food. If someone works full-time, they should be able to not worry about basic shelter.

Now, if you want cable, internet, nice phones, furniture, the ability to eat out, travel or anything beyond the basics, then YOU need to put the effort into getting the jobs with that level of pay.

Yes, EVERY job should pay a wage enough for the basics, but beyond that it is on the individual.

[Naruse]

Yeah even though you produce all the labour the prick at the top should keep all the money and you should be grateful we even deigned to reward you for your time and effort. Honestly your grandparents got a living wage, your parents had better wages than you. People just ignore the effects of inflation upon wage stagnation. If everything costs more and you have the same amount of money then that's less money. If someone works hard I don't fucking care about their status they deserve enough to sustain their lives without going into debt or skipping meals.

[Daniela1982]

That's BS! Congress get's great money for basically doing jack shit. They are off on recess more than they spend working. Hard working Americans don't make enough to even keep up with inflation, and some don't even get benefits anymore. Yet illegal immigrants come into this country and get treated like royalty, compared to the poor, homeless, and our own veterans who are homeless. They get a 5-star hotel to live in, get fed, free medical, and in some states they even get $1,000 a month for expenses, all from us taxpayers. There ought to be a law!!

[rigmarole]

No one owes you anything. If you don't like the pay offered, then don't take the job. It's pretty trucking simple. If no one will do the job for the price they are offering, then a company will raise the offer while able to be profitable until someone will do the job for the offered wage and they will raise their prices based on what the market will bear. If a compromise never happens between the business, the worker, and the market then the business will not exist and the investor will try something else that might works. If there are no jobs out there with a "living wage" in your opinion, then it's time you create your own job and produce something the market demands. Every time the government sticks their nose in a business to demand more pay or benefits, people get fired because the market is unwilling to pay the difference. Then you get no pay and have no products or services available.

[rigmarole]

*fucking

[rigmarole]

For example I haven't spent a penny at any fast food restaurant in 9 years because they upped their prices to offer higher wages. It's not because I can't afford to pay. It's because the products they sell are low quality. They have a price cap when it comes to value. At a certain price point they make sense when it comes to convenience, but as the price continues to rise that makes less sense to more people. Then people explore different options. That's why you have companies like Burger King filing for bankruptcy. Too much government...

[rigmarole]

Minimum wage hikes lead to operating losses. Operating losses lead to bankruptcy and asset liquidation. This means stores close, products become unavailable at any price within many communities, and people become unemployed. It's good for nobody except those trying to acquire land from failing operations (i. e. banks).

[rigmarole]

When all the land is transferred to the banks as businesses continue to fail you won't even be able to grow your own food let alone buy it. Then if they tell you, you will eat ze bugs, you will have the option of eating ze bugs or going hungry until ze bugs look more appealing.

[Anonymous]

Everyone should make a liveable wage if they work full time regardless of where it is. That however doesn’t mean that it has to include everything else. Enough for the cheapest home/apartment in the area, food, clothes, and gas/electric. It is doable on minimum wage but it’s hard. Might not be able to afford internet, any luxuries, even furniture to furnish your whole hobbit hole, etc. Just have to make it work and then find something better. There are enough resources out there that it is possible

[Anonymous]

It is technically true, unless your a slave you choose to work a job for a wage. If you choose a job and wage which you can't survive on you will have to find anther. Before people stop giving you the extra money you require. You are NOT entitled to such aid.

A "living" wage is indeed a very small wage as forign national both in this country and abroad demonstrate.

Of course what politicians are selling as a "living" wage is really living in a relatively nice area in an relatively uncrowded home, eating relatively good food.
Obviously forign nationals both abroad and in this country prove none of that is necessary to live and work theses jobs.

They are ok packing 5 people to a room and eating ramen noodles to let them live working below minimum legal wage jobs and still have money to send home. Thus that there in the areas in which they do it is an example of a real living wage.

[molonski2]

If you go to work , and you work full time , and the business is actually a business , you need and deserve a living wage , you can't get to work without enough money , it needs to be realistic , avoid companies that exploit others , thats not cool.

The minimum wage needs to be a living wage , its not like you are rich or the like.

[Screenwriter]

If someone's working full time and are doing a good job, they are owed a living wage. Does mean our fast food will be expensive and Walmart costs will go up. But NOT paying living wages is criminal. Then we have to expect to support a welfare state, which, I would guess is far more expensive.

[Dinklex3]

No, lol.

I’m confused. Wasn’t minimum wage meant to be a living wage?

Why support paying anyone less than minimum wage? I don’t think anyone working 40+ hours a week should be looked down upon and they shouldn’t be struggling to survive. These are hard working American citizens.

[Soteris]

That is the most stupid entitled statement that I ever heard. No one is entitled to another human beings labor without paying a living wage. Anything below that I consider criminal and should be prosecuted.

[Kingofkings1992]

Thinking you deserve a living wage for working at Taco Bell is not entitled?

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
Yepp. If the job you are offering is not profitable enough to you that you can exchange it for a living wage then that job should not exist. If your business can't function without jobs that can't be economically justified then your business is inefficient and should go bankrupt to make room for other businesses who actually can make it profitable. That is capitalism in action.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris so any person entering the workforce is entitled to a living wage, regardless of the type of work it is, their experience, or their skill set? Sorry, a 16-year-old bagging groceries at Publix should not be paid a living wage.. That’s not how the world works. Period.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris that is literally communism.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails On the contre my economically challenged friend. This practice of jobs paying subpar wages is bad both for the industry, country and the workers. The only one gaining anything from it is the owner who gets a free pass on being a parasite.

For what is a job worth less than a livable wage than a job that is so worthless it has to be subsidized by someone else? Its a drain on resources, in this case on the government and the people. The fact that you are trying to defend this just tells me that you want to sabotage your own nation. I would call that traitorous myself but you already call yourself a nationalist so I guess its redundant.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
If the business can't profit of the labor of a 16 year old enough that they can pay a livable wage then that 16 year old should work for a different business which is profitable enough that they CAN support it. Allowing citizens to work subpar jobs is literally just crippling your own economy with failed businesses that does not make financial sense.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails I literally dont care about the motive, I care about the effects on the economy. If you support such things as capitalism then you should be fucking ecstatic to nuke businesses from orbit that can't produce a profit without being subsidized. These businesses are literal parasites. Why on earth would you defend them?

[gorydetails]

@Soteris you still live at home in your parents house in your 30s. Do you really think you are a good judge of financial success?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails *rolls eyes* The job of workers is literally to produce value, be it in goods or services. If the job in question can't meet the low bar of profitability then they are by definition unprofitable and by the ideology of capitalism they should fail and be replaced by another business which actually can make that job profitable.

[Kingofkings1992]

@gorydetails don’t waste your energy on this idiot bro. People who believe ideology like his are dangerous, and they should be avoided. He’s the type of person who would support parents losing custody of their children because they didn’t get them covid vaccinated.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992 This is literally Capitalism. Are you sure you want to diss it? I mean, I am fine with trash talking Capitalism but I thought that was the foundation of you very existence as an American.

[gorydetails]

@Soteris Do you even have a job?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Nope, quit it earlier this autumn because its winter and I rather not deal with that. I got enough money that I dont need a job and only work when I personally feel bored. Jealous?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Loser? I am financially secure enough to decide my own life. I get to decide if or when I work. I get to decide what house I buy and live in. I get to choose what I spend my life doing, rather than burn away my midnight oil for a company that does not care about me nor would miss me if I disappeared one day.

What a sad and lonely existence you must live.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails *Shrugs* I guess I can't do anything but pity you then. Not only are you a sad little man but you must even insist on being wrong online on things such as what capitalism is. Actually, maybe that is why you dont have the financial ability to do the same things I do, because you dont understand capitalism?

[gorydetails]

What a weird tangent. I guess whatever it takes for you to try to think you're not worthless.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Wrapping the conversation back to the actual topic we were discussing is a tangent? Dude, you went off track talking about if I had a job or not. You dont get to talk about tangents.

[gorydetails]

lol. So when you had a job, did you agree to the payment for your labor?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails No, no, no. Lets not go on any tangents like you said. Lets laser focus on what this conversation was supposed to be, if companies refusing to pay a "living wage" is entitlement or not.

So I ask you, why should a business be entitled to employees working below a living wage?

[gorydetails]

1) You can't define living wage
2) Minimum wage jobs are for young people to get work experience. They have never been for people to support themselves or a family. If you're a grown adult and never progress past minimum wage, you are a loser.
3) When you accept a job, you are agreeing that your labor is worth the money you are being paid for it.

That's the end.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails
1: Nope, its an extensive explanation of how it would work in practice. I also love how you somehow accept the concept of "minimum wage" but struggle to wrap your head around a "living wage" when they are basically identical in concept.

2: I got literally no problem with a freshly graduated brain surgeon to operate on me. If anything, I would expect them to have a higher standard since they have been studying the most recent medical knowledge where as the senior surgeons are working with antiquated knowledge that is only supported and made relevant by work experience. I mean seriously, you are talking with an IT professional here, the things I learned in school is already obsolete today so of course I value recent graduations compared to older ones. And again, young adults are the most productive, having them flip burgers for no reason is literally the same as crippling your own national economy for no reason.

3: I literally choose not to work because I dont find the compensation from work to be worth my time. Have you forgotten about that already? But not, I am talking about desperate people. Those that for one reason or another end in a situation where the employers have an advantage in negotiations and can dictate unreasonable demands. Again, are you against things like Unions for example?

[gorydetails]

1) Minimum wage was put in place to keep black people out of the job market

2) So you admit that your IT work is essential for you to "get ahead".

3) Again, if you're in your 20s and have been working 5+ years and still in the same entry level minimum wage job, you're a shit employee.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails
1: I dont care about the motives. You admit that the minimum wage EXISTS, that it is DEFINED, so why are your monkey brain struggling so hard with a "living wage"?

2: No idea what you are on about.

3: I dont care what you think about people in their 20's working whatever. Answer me, are you against Unions?

[gorydetails]

1) Again, it's an arbitrary value. Tell me the "living wage" for a family of 4 to live in NYC. I want a number.

2) I clearly stated that minimum wage jobs are for people to gain experience in a work environment, and/or an industry. You said you wanted a surgeon to come straight out of school, then contradict yourself by saying your IT knowledge you got from school is outdated so you need OTJ training to stay relevant.

3) And I don't listen to your demands.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Oh sorry, let me rectify that.

(A*B+C)/D = Livable wage

Hope that clears things up.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Nope. I just can't help you if you are bad at math.

[gorydetails]

You could be a man for once and admit you don’t know.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails I do know though. I have seen a few examples in dollar terms. There are even some that are literally in the link I sent you but which you are too lazy and uneducated to read yourself. but the whole point of a living wage is to be continuously adjusted to keep up with the changing requirements to live and the changing values of good and services.

Talking about a living wage like we do the minimum wage when we say 15 dollar an hour or whatever goes against the whole concept of why a living wage is better. It is a more complete solution to the problem than a defined number could ever be because it has to be applied in real life which is a dynamic problem in itself.

Next time you are trying to make me "admit you don't know", perhaps you should just read the link I sent you that has your answers already?

[gorydetails]

You’ve spent lots of replies trying to convince me how smart you are. Seems a simple enough task to be able to articulate what a “living wage” is for NYC.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails And you have spent lots of replies proclaiming the value of work experience but you sure as hell ain't lifting a finger when I tell you where to find the answers you ask for. All I can assume is that you do not have any work ethics and that you are a lazy bum.

[gorydetails]

You keep spinning and spinning but can’t type some simple numbers. Almost like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Remember you’ve told me you’re so wealthy you don’t have to work, you should have some free time.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Oh, I got plenty of free time. I am just against the idea of "simple numbers" for complex problems so I have limited myself to pointing you in the correct direction where I know for a fact that they are.

[gorydetails]

But that's the entire concept of "living wage" that you're screeching about.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Nope, that is literally not what it is and congratulations on not having understood anything we have talked about.

[gorydetails]

So as I've said all along, you don't even understand what a living wage is, you can't quantify it... it's nothing but virtue signaling bullshit. Pretty much the entirety of your personality.

[msmissydc]

@gorydetails why it is always you, that loses an argument in the first few replies and then only continues with insults?
You say the other doesn't bring real arguments while all you do bring is insults. If you think that this would win an argument than let me QUOTE YOU, back at yourself: 'you can fuck right off'

[Soteris]

@msmissydc Ahahaha! That was beautiful! Brought a single tear right to my eye.

[gorydetails]

@msmissydc what argument? Tell me what you think a living wage should be. if you think it's good policy, it should be super simple to express. I've contended the entire time, it's just feels, not reals. None of you geniuses have been able to give a number.

[gorydetails]

@Soteris pretty bad when you need a chick to fight your battles for you.

[msmissydc]

Pretty bad when you think being a boy does anything for you. If you need anything more than what soteris already said I can say it's not a problem of his arguments but your missing understanding, which is also no fault of soteris, because it's pretty easy to understand.

[DARKCLOUD1945X]

This is a vicious cycle. Work Burger King you are now making $15 an hour now Burger King has to raise their price now if you took your kids to lunch it cost $5 per kids lunch before you have 4 kids $20 lunch bill now it is $30 dollar lunch bill you need a raise to afford lunch. You get a raise, and your employer needs to raise their prices. to cover your raise and I need a raise to cover the price increase of your raise the Berger King person needs a raise to cover my raise. etc, etc. etc AND etc

[Soteris]

@DARKCLOUD1945X If it is a vicious circle then that means the job is not producing enough value to cover a living wage which means that the people who work in those jobs are wasting their time and effort being unproductive and it is all thanks to the business being a failure. Businesses like that should just be left to fail.

So yes, it is a "vicious cycle" and yes it is supposed to because it applies capitalist pressure that either forces the business to become more efficient or die and be replaced with a better business.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails I have said all that I need to, given you all that you have reasonably asked of me and I am just waiting for you to process it all and for the argument to progress. You are not doing your end of the deal so I am not obliged to lift another finger.

[gorydetails]

I am starting to wonder why you’re scared to give a number.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Because I have made the argument that the number is supposed to be adjusted. Giving you a number is pointless when what matters is the process in which you derive that number. A living wage is not a number that is kept the same such as the current minimum wage which the government has to fiddle with every few years thanks to inflation. It is a number that actually reflects what people actually require to live at any one time.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails The number literally changes anytime real world changes. The price of butter goes up? The living wage goes up to compensate. A new technology is introduced into society and normal people start using it such as the internet or mobile phones? The living wage includes it in its calculations etc..

That is the point, its supposed to be comprehensive and also incredibly easy to apply without having to have politicians vote on something every few years because inflation happened or something else changed.

The fact that you think this is an example of a "magical number" really says a lot about your lacking understanding of how math equations work.

[Kingofkings1992]

@Soteris take your communism somewhere else. It’s not welcome in America.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
This is literally a capitalist policy. Communism would not concern itself with things like wages or money as you know it. Please learn the difference.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
*sigh* When will Americans actually learn political philosophy?

[gorydetails]

@Soteris the best part is you think that this bullshit is intellectual thought.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails You mean, as opposed to whatever the fuck you are doing?

[gorydetails]

@Soteris I’m waiting for the hourly rate that is a ‘living wage’ (as of today) for a family of 4 in NYC. Even the tards who want a $15 minimum wage can at least articulate how much they think employees are entitled to.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails There you go again and completely miss the point. Congratulations of wasting more time.

[gorydetails]

@Soteris you have no point. You just spout horseshit “liViNG WaGe!”

[Soteris]

@gorydetails My point is that the living wage is based on the numbers provided by bureau of labor statistics and more specifically, their record of the basket of consumer goods and services (AKA what people are buying and how much it costs) combined with information such as insurance, taxes and the household structure to account for the specific cost of a specific family at a specific time.

Saying to give an example in dollar amounts is missing the entire point and shows that you do not understand that this is an equation, not a number.

[gorydetails]

@Soteris You fucking retard, what do equations result in? A number. If I’m making breakfast for 2 people and each person eats 3 eggs, I need 6 eggs. If I’m making eggs for 20 people, I need 60 eggs. A person working in HR needs to know what to key in on payroll day. What’s that number?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Alright then. What number does this equation result in? A+B=?

[gorydetails]

@Soteris. Ok, let’s try to make it easy for you. You work in payroll. Your job is to enter payroll into the system. For worker X, what do you put in for his/her salary to make this living wage?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails You apply the equation and then move on to the next. We are living in a digital age, its literally automated. If you did not know, equations automatically give you the answer you are looking for.

[Kingofkings1992]

@gorydetails he’s back for more. At this point, I’m starting to think he thoroughly enjoys being made a fool of.

[gorydetails]

@Kingofkings1992 his commitment to being a retard is astounding

@Soteris ok so employee X works 40 hours, what’s his gross pay for a month?

[Soteris]

@gorydetails You do understand what "=" means right? Same on the right, as on the left. The equation IS the answer as much as the "number" is.

[Soteris]

@Kingofkings1992
I am not the one struggling with elementary math here.

[gorydetails]

@Soteris I understand U = moron.

[Soteris]

@gorydetails Very creative.

[Anonymous]

If all I'm doing is bagging groceries I shouldn't be able to buy a house with that money. That job was meant to provide low-skilled people like teenagers a place to learn job skills. Or retirees that are looking to just stay active and get some more bingo money or what have you. It isn't a career and shouldn't be treated as such.

[whirled_up_girl]

I said other, because basically if employers want good workers they should have the incentive of having a livable wage at bare minimum. If they don't they can't expect to get the best workers or even good workers, only acceptable workers that will do the bare minimum to get the job done. Sometimes that might be all that required for some jobs, and in those situations both employer and employee will be meeting the expectations.

[kylee2437]

I am in the middle of this. You can’t stay stagnant in a position and expect to be treated the same way as someone that is constantly progressing and growing - however I do think our current wages are extremely unfair and do not equal out to the work that people end up doing

[Exterminatore]

Kinda agree kinda don’t. Ultimately no one owes anyone a living. Then when I realize the world is run by corporations who in America get tax breaks, pretty much bribe all politicians to make laws only in their favor and pretty much screw us all in one way or another then I think: screw them, they can pay everyone non slave wages since their so corrupt.

[genericname85]

it's absolutely true. it's your responsibilty to get a job that you can make a living with. you can't blame anyone else for your failure of doing so. and if you are litterally unable to, that's still not everyone elses fault. it's called labour "market" so go find yourself a job that can sustain your life.

[RingOfFire]

Holy cow! 87% of the respondents prefer communism? Its a scary world folks.

Work is not charity. No one owes you a living or should have to pay you one penny more than it takes to fill a job with someone else who is willing to do it for less. Guess what snowflakes, if you are not happy with the place you work you can always start your own business and see if you can do better.

[Amuere]

It is an evil position, but it is the nature of the beast unfortunately.

Culturally we're expected to work and "earn our keep" in order to survive, but most people work the majority of their waking hours, and are supposed to live off of the dog shit wages they are given.

Society views that as you don't work hard enough brokey.

[Anonymous]

When you are 40 and you work in a job meant for teenagers to support a family of 4 then you should not get livable wage. You should increase your skills to be able to earn more money.

When you keep increasing everyone to a livable wage, prices keep going up, as they have been, and then the livable wage people can't afford them again. The rich don't care if a gallon of milk is $10. The livable wage people are only hurting themselves.

[MikeyObrien]

It would be nice to live in a world where everybody is needs are met but the reality is that all goods and services are produced by people. So unless you're going to start using slave labor then you won't be able to pay people for a job that's worth less than it demands. And if you try to anyway it'll just cause massive inflation and devaluing of the dollar and you're back to square one because that poor person's dollar means less now.

[Snakeyes7]

Minimum wage jobs are not meant for people to stay forever, it is to get workplace experience. The low wage encourages you to leave in pursuit of better paying jobs. Not to mention, you leaving that job will open it up for more people to start their career.

[Anonymous]

100% agreed. You're not OWED anything. It's up to you to figure out what other people need/want and serve them in some way that creates value. THEN you can charge them for it and if one customer doesn't want to pay that's fine as long as there are others who DO.

[Anonymous]

Of course that's true. People need to take responsibility for themselves. If a person's job doesn't meet their income requirements, they should find one that does.

Flipping burgers at McDonalds is for high school students, not people who need a living wage.

[Avicenna]

Well, what is a living wage? I would disagree with that statement.

[Kingofkings1992]

These days I’d say at least $18-20/ hour

[wolfcat87]

That's insane. If every job paid that much, then the costs would be passed on to consumers and prices would skyrocket again. Then, people would be right back to where they are now with increased wages and complaining it's not enough.

[Avicenna]

Well, $18-20 is too much for some jobs.

[Rei13]

It depends on where you live to be honest. Where I used to live you had to make at least 8 an hour full time to make a livable wage. It wasn’t comfy but it was enough if you knew how to budget and if you didn’t have a car payment. It was pretty far from a city, now being where I am now however… definitely not livable lol. But if someone is making that you just got to go with what you can get

[exitseven]

The good thing about America is the opportunities that we have that you don't find in other countries. If you have a job that does not pay a living wage there are opportunities to train for a new one.

[rosemilk]

disagree. everyone deserves the right to be able to live and provide themselves shelter, food, groceries, etc, especially if they are working for their money.

[ShellyBo]

True. And if you can find a job that pays 10 cents more per hour, jump ship with no notice. Only public servants are owed a living wage.

[AviatorTom]

I agree. What a person earns should be tied to their productivity, in particular, how much they make for their employer.

[ColinPeters]

At the end of the day capitalism requires all socioeconomic levels to sustain. If you remove a level, the entire system crumbles. Yes, the poor should be allowed to live in a capitalistic society.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If an employer wants living workers, they should pay a living wage. Full stop.

[Exterminatore]

I love this answer. Awesome!

[Djaay]

It's not about your wage or benifits... it's about a greater opportunity that exist with a willing able body making right choices creating your own value instead of adding value to someone or something else.

[Anonymous]

Employers owe you the fair market value for your skills, abilities, and time that you spend. The only amount they should have to consider is how much you're actually worth to them.

[FunkyMonkee]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[ChefPapiChulo]

watching your brain try to make sense of things it does not understand is funny.

[Kingofkings1992]

Oh hey short bus. What exactly am I not understanding?

[ChefPapiChulo]

just about everything.

[Kingofkings1992]

Right. You’re weak and not even worth my time or energy. Later short bus, I don’t have the patience to deal with an imbecile like you right now.

[Pohjolan]

Depends on the work hours. If 40 hours a week and no living wage then that will have a negative effect on social cohesion.

[Bellawiththefatass]

Everyone deserves a living wage when they work 'cause at least they work. People need to be able to care for themselves.

[Anonymous]

It’s true, that’s why you get the skills or education needed to get a job with a living wage, minimum wage was never meant to live on

[FenixG45]

If you work then you are owed a living wage! We are not slaves.

[Sellyoeks]

Rich ignorant selfish people talk.

[WhitneySnow]

Disagree

[Kingofkings1992]

A 17 year old doesn’t have the necessary life experience to understand this topic of discussion. Sorry kid

[YAsQuen]

DEPORT. Watch wages going up. PROFIT

[Joker_]

no thoughts