What do you think about mandatory paternity testing before dad signs the birth certificate?

[razelove]

Every time I've been in a holding cell, most of the other guys arrested were there for not paying child support. They told me they go in front of the judge, pay some token amount from the money in their pocket, get released, move, get a new job before their wages can get clipped too bad, and repeat the cycle.

Most of them saying because the kid isn't theirs. One of my friends convinced himself of that to the point of signing over his parental rights because his ex just didn't want to deal with him anymore.

Anyway, it seems like a lot of the negative, for men and women, could simply be avoided with paternity tests before making that paternity legally binding on a birth certificate, or changing how that works outside marriage, I don't know.

It seems doable though.

Yes

No

[RavVid]

Obviously the question is relative to the US but as Anglo countries often follow the same trend I thought some notes on mine might be helpful.

In my country (Australia) it is relatively easy to have the 'presumed' father's name removed from the birth certificate after Court ordered DNA tests. However you will not get your money back, necessarily, you have spent on a child that is not yours.

There was a high profile case over a woman claiming her husband was the father of her children , and when he found out he wasn't, he launched a fraud case. He won the fraud case at the second highest level (our Federal court) but lost on appeal to our highest court (our High court = your Supreme court of US).

The reasoning seems to have been that requiring the wife to pay back a certified non-father would have been disadvantageous to the children and therefore unconscionable. Notably the chief justice was a woman who was known to have cheated on her husband. Just noting, not commentating people.

There were legislative changes subsequently such that you may be able to claim repayment but it requires court action to do so.

I think that now the technology is available that IT WOULD BE GOOD PUBLIC MORALS to DNA certify fathers.

This is possible in utero now - before the baby is born.

It would of course be a highly dramatic moment should a presumed father turn out to not be the father. I would suggest a framework around mandatory paternity needs to be in place to protect both parties and is very necessary.

I would also note it is no good pretending the technology does not exist. Legislation that genome testing has to have both mother and presumed father consent is going to be ineffective as the technology becomes cheaper.

[razelove]

From what I was lookin up it's like 300 to test (within legal limits, not walgreens) after a kid is born, and 1500 before. In most states here even if you get a DNA test after birth proving it isn't your kid, signing the birth certificate is 18 years of child support.

[RavVid]

So I have heard which is just plain badly wrong. I have seen a video of a guy complaining that at school a girl came up to him and said "You're IT" but he had never had the pleasure of sex with her. Still paying child support getting on to 40 without relief from courts.

Extra ordinarily unfair. Why isn't it a cruel and unusual punishment putting my bush lawyer hat on for a mo?

[Kingofkings1992]

Fuck that. Voluntary paternity testing is okay. Do not tell me what I am mandated to do.

[razelove]

I agree with marriage, with the local, state, and federal benefits, besides what men are expected to pay out, I don't think a guy's name should be able to go on that birth certificate without a DNA test.

[Kingofkings1992]

Point taken. Still seems like a breach of privacy.

[razelove]

The flip side is a breach of privacy in being arrested for a kid you don't know is yours (if you don't pay) and likely will never get to see, except on weekends. You know, those days when you aren't working to send money their way.

[LaFemmeFatale_1]

I cannot imagine what kind of person one must be to keep having a relationship with a woman they mistrust so much.

If you don’t trust her why are you in a relationship with her?

If my husband asked for a paternity test for our child, I’d accept and support him to do it and wonder, if he’s not ashamed by the fact that he doubted this was his own child,

and then I’d develop trust issues to him, because how can you trust a man who cannot trust you to believe the life you both created is truly his?

Especially that if he is my husband, he must have known I don’t have sex outside of relationship and I am extremely picky with who I have sex with.

So, he basically doubts what I believe is the most sacred thing in the love and relationships.

I’d never be able to love him the same way.

Love is built on trust.

[BoopBoopBeep]

A whole lot of men and women who have been cheated on "knew" their men and women would never cheat on them...

[razelove]

All in all I agree with you, but it doesn't take love to make a baby. Even lust is secondary to simply being in a vulnerable position.

[LaFemmeFatale_1]

@BoopBoopBeep Very poor judgment they must have had, I can say… Very poor intuition, very poor ability to judge one’s personality.

I have never been cheated and I have never cheated. I think break up was kind of a betrayal for me back then.

But other than that I wasn’t wrong with choosing the person I chose and he wasn’t wrong choosing me.

So, I fail to understand how can I develop a very deep bond with someone who doesn’t trust me and who I don’t trust.

I never fully trust a person unless they’ve proved to be trustworthy.

You know, I used to meet some people when I was a virgin, who never believed I was a virgin, because I was outspoken, not shy, confident and flirty. They had a hard time believing I was one.

I can imagine, years pass and those people marry people they deem to fit their view of loyalty perfectly, they find partners who fits their stereotype of a perfect partner, only to figure out that is a cover someone made for herself/himself and they failed badly at judgment.

Women who are wearing revealing clothes or who are bold - are often thought to be more prone to cheating, I say, be more careful about women who are so perfect you’d never imagine them cheating, because they are obviously faking the mask.

Also, if she already cheated someone else in the past, don’t assume you are any special.

You are not…

So, I see a lot of people choosing their partners in a wrong way and then acting all paranoid that a child is not theirs.

That’s so pathetic,

I am certain I will never get close to any man who’ll ever doubt that he is my child’s father.

Such man will just never get close to me.

[BoopBoopBeep]

If people were honest I wouldn't have a job.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Crap that was @LaFemmeFatale_1

Also, I think there's a considerable difference between how the world should be and how the world is. People shouldn't cheat. People shouldn't be murderers either. I'd say it's pretty shite intuition to marry someone who is going to drown their kids in the bathtub. It still happens BECAUSE those people are good at hiding who they are or because they change over the years. You thankfully were not victim to either of those types of people, but they're still out there, and that's why cops will never be out of a job either.

[FreyaRed]

Yes, this will solve many problems but lot of women who are living on child support will surely disagree.
For courts it's an easy solution. Rights of the guy for knowing if it's his child or not are less relevant than right of the child to having a father and much more important having a child support. That's why I think country (I'm living in) is discriminatory in this issue but someone has to pay.

[razelove]

I think it would just create a bottleneck where outside of marriage less guys would be responsible for more kids. That would stress social services more as child support is based on income, and if you get to like 150%, you'd just stop working taxable jobs and be a handyman or drug dealer

[OlderAndWiser]

1. I don't want the government telling me what I must do.

2. If the mother is not married and the father doesn't acknowledge paternity, he is not listed on the birth certificate. The mother then names him as the father in a paternity action and the first thing that is done is a DNA test to establish or disestablish paternity.

3. The fact that some deadbeat doesn't want to acknowledge that he is the father doesn't really mean anything except that he is another deadbeat dad with a fabricated excuse.

[razelove]

I agree with 1, but 2 depends on state. You can be married, legally separated, and be responsible for the kid your soon to be ex-wife has with another guy.
As for 3, I don't think a DNA test would change the outcome.

[V_Injector]

Yes. It would be the best thing ever.

Sure it would put a lot of lawyers and county clerks, as well as scandalous ass women out of business, but I'm sure they'll come up with something better to do with their time.

It's probably not going to happen though. It makes the state money. Remember child support doesn't get paid directly, who takes their cut before she sees any of it. Also, the prison industrial complex loves its cheap labor. The legal types like getting paid. If it does happen, I'm pretty sure they're already working on ways to make the man liable even if the kid isn't his. I mean these laws are not as fucked up as they are because they think about men's rights. Also, the promise of free gibs to certain voter blocks is a leftist politician's wet dream for buying votes. Tons of broke ass women looking for a free ride will not stop at using her pussy to get what she wants, they will vote in their own self-interest as well.

[Kaamraj]

This is a conflict of interest between men and women, so women will not agree. They're getting the best of both worlds. Have children with the alpha and get beta bucks to pay for it and her. If men want to reverse this trend then dont get pressured into signing the birth certificate without a paternity test. And if you get summons for paternity, do not ignore it because in some cases if you do not respond to the summons you can become the parent by default. Remember the judge will first do what is best for the child, then the mother and you at last. So be careful.

[Avicenna]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

-Removes any stigma or dissension caused by asking for a paternity test

-Prevents men who aren't the father of the child from being saddled with child support obligations because the mother named them as the father (required when single moms apply for welfare benefits).

[razelove]

That's what was on my mind, your second point. I found it really funny though looking into it how easy it is to get those benefits as a guy because of the double standard.

Where is your husband? lol

[Apple1996]

Nah that seems unnecessary. The parents can test the baby if they want to so there is no reason to make it mandatory.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Apple1996 mandatory paternity testing is absolutely necessary.

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin what if the baby looks exactly like the father?

[KrakenAttackin]

@Apple1996. We test for all kinds of things "Just in case". Paternity testing should just be a part. Come on apple, you know American female nature and deep down you know this makes sense.

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin I don't allow my babies to be tested for anything

[KrakenAttackin]

A cheek swab doesn't hurt a thing.

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin with a fresh newborn I wouldn't allow it

[KrakenAttackin]

That's because you have something to hide.

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin more like something to protect like my child 😂

[KrakenAttackin]

@Apple1996. This is not protecting a child. Women delude themselves that anything good for them is automatically good for their kids (such as divorce).

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin divorce can be good for the kids depending on the situation. I know lots of adults that wished their parents would have divorced instead of staying together for them

[KrakenAttackin]

@Apple1996. No you don't. The statistics are clear. Kids do better with both parents in the home. Fact. Proven by generations of data.

[Apple1996]

@KrakenAttackin eh not when there is constant fighting and abuse in the house. It's better to be separated if that's the case which it so frequently is

[mobiusforniner]

@KrakenAttackin yeah. Sure kids do better with both parents. My parents were always aligned together. In beating each other. Even in beating their kids. And telling us we were losers that will never amount to anything.

[Kingofkings1992]

@KrakenAttackin kids turn out fucked with both parents still together. Happens all the time. How are you going to tell her what her personal experience is?

[Apple1996]

@Kingofkings1992 exactly a lot of people that come from 2 parent households can end up even worse because they grew up seeing a unhealthy relationship

[razelove]

I'm not advocating for keeping together unhealthy relationships, just preventing the case where even if you find out a kid isn't yours later, you still have to pay child support because your name is on the birth certificate. That is the law in many states. Personally I wouldn't advocate for this in marriages unless you felt things were heading towards divorce.

It isn't something I personally have to worry about, but it's quite troubling to think about for if I have sons.

[KrakenAttackin]

Four cheating women approved this message.

[TonyMetal___86]

Every woman knows who is the true father of her kids...

If a woman had sex only with her husband and no one else, who's going to be the father other than her husband...

That's why, it's better to find a good woman with morals and values, who makes sex only with her future husband...

In this generation, no one knows sh*t, living like animals in the jungle 😏

[razelove]

I'm not arguing with that. Rather than trying to push back the ocean with your hands though, it's far more realistic to live with the hands we're dealt and not drown.

[TonyMetal___86]

Blame the simps who gave women too much rights just so she steals his...

God made men leaders and if a man cannot be a leader and came to this position by fault, this will be the result!

[lightbulb27]

good idea. One of my most disgusted moments was hearing my female teacher read a writing/poem about a woman that cheated on her husband and lied to him his entire life... and then tried to promote her as the victim. disgusted.

Men's rights!

[NamerOfStars]

That would require a government database of everyone's genetics, which is just about the worst idea out there.

[razelove]

I actually agree with that, I think about the majority of my relationships when asking this, not the one I'm currently in. My first question if any of the women I was with other than my wife said they were pregnant would be "whose is it?"

I also used fake names and picked up girls at clubs, so you get what you pay for.

[Rei13]

Probably shouldn’t be doing the deed if you don’t trust your partner and I would personally be offended if my partner asked for one when we have children together, however if you truly have reason to believe your partner is being dishonest then it should be an option

[razelove]

That seems like a reasonable argument, but it's putting too many feelings into sex, which makes babies. Feelings are secondary there. Taking it the other way around, we could be madly in love, but all of that could be ruined by knocking up a cocktail waitress or something.

There wouldn't be love there, but it would not change the outcome.

[katiesmuff]

In cases where there is some doubt about who the father is yes that sounds like a perfect solution.

[msc545]

Most men are in doubt about who the father is but suppress that and wind up in denial. The paternity test would solve this once and for all.

[katiesmuff]

@msc545 It is rare that a woman is jumping from one dick to another dick that close together as not to make who daddy is pretty easy.

[msc545]

How do you think identifying a father is made easy?

[msc545]

Just for reference about 30% of paternity tests show that the putative father is not the biological father based on DNA testing. But it's far from being rare as you suggested.

[razelove]

@msc545 Just watch a couple episodes of paternity court! lol It's honestly what inspired me to ask, but @katiesmuff when I was playing the field, once you get past the self-delusion that you're oh so special for sleeping around so much... The reality is that if you're sleeping with someone new every week, the women you're sleeping with are doing the same, if not more.
I know if any of them had gotten pregnant, and didn't get an abortion, they'd be picking the most stable guy as the daddy.

[katiesmuff]

@msc545 This doesn't mean that the mother didn't know who the father was, just that she didn't say who it was.

[katiesmuff]

When you remove those using condoms, birth control method, or vasectomies in the equation you've dropped 90% of possible unknown to momma baby daddies to very few.

[NaultD]

Join the military. They act as the bad guy for you forcing the test.

[razelove]

Too true, I remember talking to a guy who went in around 2010 talking about mandatory DNA testing, when it was only fingerprints going into AFIS in the 04 time I went in.

[Anonymous]

I 100% support it. Having seen in my own family the life altering damage paternity fraud can do to the men and children involved, and having some knowlege of the pervasivness of paternity fraud, I think it would do far more good than harm.

[razelove]

If you don't mind me asking, what's a broad outline of what happened?

[Opinion Owner]

My uncle and cousin found out they were not father and son and it has devestated their family and created a lot of pain, especially for my cousin. They did those DNA tests (Ancestry. com I think) as part of church project and my aunt was really weird about it. Over a period of a couple of years they would get DNA match notifications from Ancestry and it became obvious my cousin had no DNA matches to anyone in my uncle's family or extended family. I don't know the details about how it all played out. I don't think the DNA actually proved anything but it raised a lot of doubts and the truth ended up coming out. They are divorced now and my cousin has been affected the most.

[Anonymous]

Well, according to the guys at Fresh and Fit and Rollo Tomassi, over 95% of men are raising other guys’ kids because they refuse to get a DNA test first. Plus, you know that every single female is just out to trap guys into marrying them or providing for them financially without their consent because all women are essentially prostitutes, according to the manosphere. The way we solve this, of course, is to mandate paternity tests for all pregnancies. Then women will become better citizens and moral humans just like all men.

[AviatorTom]

I don't think the guy signs the birth certificate. The mother if the child specifies who the father is.

I don't like mandatory anything. If there's ever a paternity question, it can be solved at any time with a DNA test. No need to do thousands of tests when most of them are unnecessary.

[itsclearlynicholas]

Hell-to-the-yes :) and man, I admire your road sign background 🛣️ ☢️🛑

[itsclearlynicholas]

@razelove you and the sign ☢️🛑

[razelove]

Why thank you, I was on a road trip, and honestly the meth heads in the area seemed more dangerous than the cotton mouths the sign was warning about lol

[Jessica405]

Yes. DNA does not lie. It gives the facts as they are. Useful for genealogy, too! LOL!

[Anonymous]

Some people are actually capable of loving, trusting relationships that do not require paternity testing.
Why should we be forced to submit to it just because OTHER people can not be trusted?
Sounds like a personal problem to me. One best dealt with by those involved.
Not the government

[mobiusforniner]

Sure. As long as women can get background checks on a guy to determine whether he’s been to jail. I mean, she doesn’t want to find out she’ll be raising the kid of some convict, right? Seems fair.

[razelove]

Why not? Child support is based on a percentage of income. You can make 1.00/hr in prison...

[mobiusforniner]

lol. The premise of your question is based on trust between partners. Honestly if I need a paternity test to prove a child is mine, I’m accountable for having sex with a woman I don’t trust.

[msc545]

It prevent paternity fraud, and it ensures that the child will know who hie real father is.

[PeachyPie93]

Seems a bit over the top, like why are you having sex with people that hoe around or you can't trust. But if they really don't believe the kid is theirs get a paternity test done it isn't hard.

[NamerOfStars]

Clearly SOMEONE has never been to France!

[PeachyPie93]

@NamerOfStars Clearly I wouldn't want to lol. I didn't know paternity tests were banned that is kind of crazy, but again you choose who you mate with so make sure you have standards.

[NamerOfStars]

And clearly, someone has never been to Kansas. You DON'T always get to choose who you mate with, and in an appalling number of jurisdictions in the West, possession of functioning testicles legally counts as consent to parenthood.

I'm not just being nitpicky here, either; I'm pointing out that it's not that simple.

[razelove]

@NamerOfStars So that's why the waitresses were hitting on me so much in Kansas...

[PeachyPie93]

@NamerOfStars How don't you get to choose who you mate with? You have sex with who you have sex with? Also in France you can get a court order for a paternity test. So if you really want to fight you always can. But again don't be fucking whores and you won't have this issue lol.