Is there anyone else here who, like me, doesn't trust either 'side' of politics?

Question

Democrats, Republicans (if you're in the US), conservatives and progressives. In my view they're equally bad, because they're just the two sides of the same coin. People get all hot and bothered about this, supporting their 'team' whilst ridiculing those they think are their enemies, but if you do, if you're the kind of person who falls for nonsense like this, then all I can say is that you've been duped. It won't matter who wins whatever election may be held whenever, because regardless of which team wins, us ordinary schmucks will once again be the losers. The only winners will be the rich, those who actually run this circus.

Danzigdawson · Accepted Answer

That's a common feeling. I thought like that, a few years back. Now I believe that when the world is deeply divided as it is today, one has to try to see clear to pinpoint who is the biggest, immediate threat. Center politics are ideal but there always will be extremists who capitalize on crisis and fear to steer hordes of people to go their way.

The book 'Le siècle des idéologies' by Jean-Pierre Faye (there may or may not be an English translation, I don't know) addresses this belief in the idea that the more extreme political ideologies become, the more they start to look alike. It has some truth in it. Using the nazi regime and the USSR as examples , he shows that both were repressive and dictatorial in a similar way. Both didn't shy away from using fear, force, murder and prison to silence dissent.

However, Faye points out that even though repression is similar in both far-right and far-left regimes, there are key differences and many nuances.

The nazi regime's central idea was the supposed superiority of the german aryan people above everyone else. Ennemies of the regime, "subhumans" and indesirables such as Jewish people, communists and moderates were to be wiped out to make place for the so-called "superior race". Here, oppression, murder and genocide are embedded in the ideology.
The USSR –especially under Stalin– was a paranoid and insecure regime wanting to rid itself of any form of dissent, real or imagined. One had to prove that he was a good communist dedicated to the Soviet Union if he wanted to survive. Here, oppression, murder and genocide are not part of the ideology, but they become tools to consolidate the regime's power, which is always more or less in jeopardy as it is facing international condemnation, sanctions, and opposition.
It is also important to note that russia has more or less always been controlled by dictators, from the tzars, to the communist regime, to Putin's brand of right-wing conservatism.
However, every communist regime around the world eventually became a dictatorship. Cuba, China, Vietnam, North Korea and so forth...

So it is a question of ideology, but it's also a question of context, circumstances. In the end, a dictatorship is a dictatorship, no matter if repression is a wilful part of it or a means to an end.

Politics are way more complicated than just right, left and center. One has to educate and inform himself to avoid the pitfalls, the over-simplifications, the scapegoating and the labelling.

Peronally, i'm rooting for center-left politics with elements of social democracy.

nightdrot · Accepted Answer

Woodrow Wilson - to be sure, not one of my favorites - said that one principle of democratic self-government is that someone somewhere must be trusted. Quite simply, democracy at some level depends on an ethic of trust, both between citizens and between citizens and elected officials.

James Madison, one of the American Founding Fathers, believed that the Founders had created a system "that would provide by rival and opposite interests the defect of better motives." They either believe that they did not need civic virtue or that it could be assumed. Either way, it is a highly problematic assumption.

To vote requires, at an irreducible level, an act of trust. Most believe that it is about campaign promises made and kept, but in fact it is more complicated than that. In a democracy, the people do not decide, rather they decide which elites will decide.

This because, quite simply, most of the questions that government address are too complex that there can BE any public opinion. For example, have you seen the latest public opinion polls on quantitative easing or measuring throw weights in arms control agreements? The public simply has nothing to offer on such technical questions, even though these questions are the nitty-gritty of what government deals with day in and day out.

In that context, campaign promises then are not specific pledges, but are rather indicators of the general disposition of those who are seeking office. They are not apt, because government generally - and democratic government in particular, in more complex than that - to be implemented in every jot and tittle.

So trust then is both conditional and general. Conditional in the sense that the electorate extends that trust for a limited duration, primarily but not exclusively defined by the electoral cycle. General in the sense that it makes broad evaluations on whether or not, on balance, weighing the goods and the bads in their totality, that trust has been earned.

Those who distrust on principle and without nuance are making democratic government impossible. Such government depends upon legitimacy - the recognition by the minority that, outside of assured minority rights, the majority has the authority to rule over it. Where that legitimacy is withheld, there is either gridlock at best, or civil war and revolution at worst.

Trust is earned, to be sure, but the nature of trust matters. To withhold it on populist suppositions is merely nihilistic, and ultimately self-defeating.

purplepoppy · Accepted Answer

Worldwide, left or right, politicians only care about one thing and that's themselves. I laugh at people who spend all day creating political memes and degrading the opposition online because the end of the day your favourite party doesn't give a flying fuck about you and wouldn't waste piss on you if you were on fire.

FreyaRed · Accepted Answer

Politician never shall be trusted. They serve industry and finance elites, they don't serve interest of the people. Someone who thinks they do is naive

DJB72 · Answer

In the US I'd say give RFK Jr a chance. He's younger, so more likely to survive a term in office, and he's the only one addressing actual issues rather than just badmouthing the "other guy".

In Western countries I'd say "progressive" ideologies - the current euphemism for Communism - are infinitely more dangerous than Conservative values. They're creating the opportunity for people previously too far to the right wing to gain footing by leaving common sense behind and embracing lunatic ideology such as the current "trans affirmation" insanity - you don't go along with a schizophrenic's voices or an anorexic's belief they're fat, so why's this mental illness different? - which makes ultra nationalism look positively reasonable. Holland's new PM has threatened to leave the Schengen agreement and expel all Muslims to islamic countries because Islam is not in keeping with Dutch policies. That's actually no different than the countries that won't allow a tourist to bring in a Bible because they're Muslim (Indonesia) or churches to operate freely because their ideology is Communism (China).

Extremists on both sides are leading up to a big fight. I suspect the Right will probably win, but only because the current lean to the Left is so extreme. Equal and opposite reaction.

Either way, I worry about the world my 5 year old son is going to inherit. Frankly I just want to buy a smallholding, chickens, goats and rabbits and live off the land.

Somoneelse · Answer

I dont believe in politics at all. I have never seen a political party without a hidden agenda. Here in my country (NL) we have so many different ones, especially because some party-leaders were from another party but started their own. We have roughly 56 parties to choose from. But only 21 of them are in the final voting-biljet. And every time again almost all of those 21 show to have a hidden agenda or plans which betray the people who voted on them. This happens every year again with the biggest ones. Now last year the Party For Freedom (also known as anti-islam party) won the votes, the other 3 below him started to riot and called for protests against these election results. Like Trump but then in The Netherlands. So yeah when they don't win they call for protests but when they are the winners, its all "legally voted".

Our biggest president Mark Rutte is also known for many schandels both caused by him and his party (VVD):
- A hidden deal with a drugdealer which Rutte knew of but chose to stay silent about
- Murdering innoccent civilians during an bombing-attack on IS in Hawija
- The Dutch childcare benefits scandal which marked innoccent parents of being frauds and having their homes, children or money taken away. Even when the government said it was a mistake, the parents never got their children back or even a "sorry".
- Deletion of messages from (every day!) his phone which contained a lot of information from the politics.
- Secret dossier which they had plans in to have another politicion kicked out of the government (Functie Elders Pieter Omzigt)

KostasKouvalis · Answer

Conservatives are just as bad, maybe even worse. Leftists have at least made it clear where they stand and where their loyalties lie and at least have each other's backs. Conservatives bring each other down and pretend their something their not. They claim to be for free speech, yet bully you if you criticize the U. S., Trump, guns, God or God forbid, soldiers.

And I saw with Meloni, she ran on a strong anti-immigration platform yet hasn't done shit about migrants in Italy. No politician can be trusted. They'll say anything to get votes.

zeitgeist057 · Answer

I think you're right. It's all games to keep the power out of the hands of the people, and in the hands of those in power.

Is there anyone else here who, like me, doesn't trust either 'side' of politics?

They do a lot of intentional distraction, manipulating people to be fixated on stupid BS that doesn't matter like Super Bowl drama, or polarizing them to be mad at each other. They're all just pawns in the bigger game, the point of their existence is to be manipulated and riled up.

(The cartoon shows Putin, but really it's all politics, just pitting people against each other)

Astarlessnightsky · Answer

The problem starts when thinking there are only two opposite sites of political affiliation.

The basic divide between left and right, progressive and conservative is only the devide in parties being for and against monarchy and their seating relative to the king in the middle.

In modern Democracy and politics you got 4 poles of politcial directions.

And this is still just a rough idea, as parties can have different perspectives on this spectrum in various aspects of their political programm, eg Education could be autheriterian-progressive, while economy can be liberterian-conservative.

And the two major US American parties are so much alike because they are more or less on the same quadrant in most of the major political agenda. You got more diversity when looking at different politicians of the same party than comparing the two parties as a whole.

Rangers · Answer

The leftists are either pure evil, or hopelessly delusional, and nothing good happens when they gain power.

Republicans have the right ideas, but are too spineless to do what is necessary to save this country. They need to declare war against the federal government, overthrow it, hang all democratic politicians, and revoke the citizenship to everyone who shows support for a democratic candidate, then deport them all to Yemen, or Palestine.

Finish the wall, use deadly force to defend the border if they won't stop coming towards them. Pay off the national debt, reduce taxes, ban all pornographic websites, require all public schools be christian based, tear down useless buildings and replant the areas, and finally, require all public schools to be Christian based.

They have the power to do it, yet they do nothing and let the democrats destroy the country and turn it into a banana republic, and that's disgraceful

abc3643 · Answer

They are not two sides of the same coin.
If they were, you wouldn't be able to say they were two sides of the same coin.
Instead, you'd be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and own nothing with no right to vote.

So, enjoy what you have thanks to liberals (of any political party).

Drew-1990 · Answer

I'm definitely more one side than the other but I don't think my side is perfect by any means. Politician wise they are not to be trusted, 99% of them care less about the people and I swear ones that do eventually get correct like the rest over time.

monorprise · Answer

At the end of the day nobody has your interest at heart better than you which is why you should trust freedom to make your own choices.

Everyone else including the political factions they create to push their agenda is in fact looking to advance their own interest. To the degree you share some aspect of said interest you work with them. However you should in fact only work with them to that end.

JacobJordan · Answer

That is the reality of politics. I don't vote for that reason I benefit regardless of who is in office. I will say though 2 important things I have noticed. When democrats hold office I get far more money. If Republicans are in office the general populace makes more money. If I were to vote I would vote republican most of the time because I don't need more money but most Americans are struggling. I do what I can but I can only do so much.

Anonymous · Answer

I don't think it is a left or right thing. The split is really those who want more power to the ruling class (often referred to as left wing) vs. Those who want to reduce the power to the ruling class or simply disagrees with the former (referred to as right wing).

If you want proof, just go and say that we shouldn't be letting criminal aliens into our country. Today you'd be called right wing but Bernie Sanders once said (in 2016 I believe) that letting them in is a Koch Brothers proposal and will make our nation poor.

It is the Overton window shifting.

KokoroRamen · Answer

I trust the right more than I trust the left. How is it in your country?

Hispanic-Cool-Guy · Answer

I live in America and believe me the 2 big major political parties of this country are almost literally identical who spend their time lying and gaslighing the public and since the collective public have the memory of a nat they keep getting fed the same ish over and over every the 4 years with hardly anything changing that's going to seriously affect their lives for the better.

slatyb · Answer

I don't "trust" either side. Instead I listen to them and compare what they are saying to the data. This is pretty easy these days as the Republicans mostly assert without evidence that widely accepted data is wrong.

strateguy632 · Answer

first of all trump earned trust trying to add to the wall, as he said, he is not a politician like biden.
if you do not trust, then pick the lesser evil. you want undocumented to have privileges and more flood in? vote democrat or not.

normalice · Answer

I used to but found that "both sides" tprhetoric pretty much is only ever used to discourage people from voting for democrats.

andreasderjuengere · Answer

I "trust" some good aspects of all "sides" available, and drop the rest. Overall, I remain non-associated and prefer to be my own side.

Knightwatch27 · Answer

It's not about which individual group of people to place trust in for me, but rather what ideology I resonate with. Which is conservatism. Corrupt people exist everywhere. Regardless of political colour.

exitseven · Answer

politicians are all crooks. You just have to figure out which one will do the least amount of harm.

NathanDavis · Answer

I've never voted for any party... none of them represent me

Is there anyone else here who, like me, doesn't trust either 'side' of politics?

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