If a woman fights for men's rights, is she helping men's rights or feminism?

[CriticalCatDad123]

A woman fighting for men's rights will only put feminism in a better light because it's a female doing it. Everyone will assume she's just fighting for "equal rights" which is what the majority consider feminism to already be about.

She is helping feminism

She is helping men's rights

Updates

1 mo

Can’t fix stupid 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Simslover92]

Unfortunately that is the sad case but there are women out there fighting for men's rights who aren't trying to uplift the feminist movement especially as it stands today as one of the most vile parts of society known to man. Is it better for a man to be in the forefront of men's rights, no doubt about that but don't discount the women who are anti-feminists and trying to work behind the scenes to make it so that men's rights are heard more. I realize for me it's better for me to be in the background and have a man fight because it will be misconstrued that I am for the feminist movement when I am not. If a woman fights for men's rights and she is heard, of course it will be taken to be her fighting for both rights which is why women who are anti-feminists should be behind the scenes in my opinion. But of course the only thing is that men who fight for men's rights get labeled misogynists which is just wrong and I wish it could be different. So it's like damned if you, damned if you don't.

But something has to give.

[Nifrayu]

Why are you anti-feminist?

[Simslover92]

I am anti-feminist because I believe men's rights have gone overlooked and been swept under the rug while women's rights continue to flourish and has frankly gotten out of hand. The things that women get away with such as falsely accusing males and having them lose their jobs is despicable. The successful suicide rates in men are at an all time high and we wonder why that is? I don't like the feminist movement because of what it's become. It's a joke today.

[CriticalCatDad123]

Couldn't agree more, @Simslover92. However, I've decided to give up advocating. I'm sick of not being able to win arguments with feminists. I'm not cut out for it even though I know deep down the affects feminism has been having on myself.

[Simslover92]

@CriticalCatDad123 I wish you didn't give up advocating but I understand that you're sick of not being able to win arguments against feminists. I hope that you change your mind, but I understand if you don't.

[CriticalCatDad123]

I won't be changing my mind, @Simslover92. There are far better people out there who can actually hold a debate without immediately seething with anger. I'll voice my agreement with those who are still advocating and fighting for guys like me who have for the most part removed themselves from society the best I can.

[Simslover92]

@CriticalCatDad123 Well I understand. I get that it's absolutely frustrating especially with you being a male and it seem to be going nowhere and for that I'm sorry. I will continue to spread awareness on here. My next question has to do with fatherlessness in the household. Hopefully it will reach people but it may not. All I can do is try.

[CriticalCatDad123]

There's a great video I'm unable to link because I'm not at that amount of exp but I recommend it be on your question about fatherlessness. It's on the Tenet Media youtube Channel the video is called "Feminism has DESTROYED relationships Tim Pool, Rollo Tomassi & Tim Gordon"

[Simslover92]

Ok I will try to link it in the update. Thanks!

[CriticalCatDad123]

No problem... Don't let them change your mind on advocating for men's issues... @Simslover92

[CriticalCatDad123]

I'll be sure to keep up with their questions on these topics

[Nifrayu]

But Feminism is about equality. There are plenty of feminists that speak out regarding men's issues.

[CriticalCatDad123]

Your* questions on these topics. @Simslover92

[Simslover92]

@Nifrayu feminism today is about women's rights. You seldom hear about a feminist fighting for men's rights. What do you see all over the topics for the election on the left side? Women's rights particularly abortion and the gender gap. You don't see anything advocating for more men being in the education system or men getting treated fairly in the court systems. They are dragged in the court system. Child custody, alimony going to women. There's nothing equal about that. Men's rights are getting disregarded in place of women's rights. Just check out some videos on YouTube about it and you will see what I say is true.

[Simslover92]

@CriticalCatDad123 okay great! And I won't!

[Nifrayu]

I see that all the time actually.

[DishLady]

I work in an area where I help men and women equally in getting what they need from the workplace. I just see it as helping a fellow human being overcome an unpleasant struggle. I don't think it's about gender, and I don't see why helping a guy establish his rights goes against being feminist. Only a feminist would really be strong enough — confident enough — to do that.

[SolitarySolace]

Why bother?

[DishLady]

Because I believe in human kindness and all that. Put good in a person’s life rather than obsessing over whether or not they drive stick shift.

[SolitarySolace]

“The male - I have found - is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness and kindness, can be trained to do most things.” - Jilly Cooper


“I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.” - Barbara Jordan


“ALL men keep ALL women in a state of fear” - Susan Brownmiller


"I feel that ‘man hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them” - Robin Morgan


"Woman's degradation is in man's idea of his sexual rights. Our religion, laws, customs, are all founded on the belief that woman was made for man.” - Elizabeth Cady Stanton


These are all feminists. Feminism is not about equal rights for both men and women why aren’t feminists fighting alongside men’s rights advocates? Why is a feminist leader claiming all men are bad in the quote above?

[SolitarySolace]

www.bing.com/.../GLinkPing.aspx

[SolitarySolace]

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/feminism

[SolitarySolace]

Are you a feminist or anti-feminist? ↗

[SolitarySolace]

https://youtu.be/r8Icwgux5c0?si=1cpTnPsbNoT96sPZ

[Chazmatazz269]

Feminism is not now, nor has it ever been about equality. No prominent feminist or feminist organization has ever argued or fought for men to share women’s rights and privileges. No prominent feminist or feminist organization has ever argued or fought for women to share men’s accountability, responsibilities and sacrifices.
Contrary to popular ignorance, equality IS black and white. If your only goal is to advance one group’s rights and privileges without advancing another group’s rights and privileges, all while denying meaningful accountability, responsibilities and sacrifices, that’s a supremacy movement by any reasonable standard.

[CriticalCatDad123]

Exactly

[NaultD]

Raising tide raises all boats. We are only as strong as our weakest defense. This is why we need everyone no matter who no matter the condition treated fairly as best we can.

If everyone is well off and can grow society as a whole can push the limits of today's expectations.

Anyone getting left behind hurts everyone.

https://youtu.be/6qZWMNW7GmE?si=Zu5xEjwFXO2LnjvB

[Soteris]

Feminism already fights for mens rights. It is for equality, including for the rights of men. If you go and look at what people are actually lobbying government for policies that benefits the rights of men then you would find out that they are pretty much all feminists. This is nothing new nor is it surprising, the surprising part is that people dont believe me when I tell them this.

[SolitarySolace]

“The male - I have found - is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness and kindness, can be trained to do most things.” - Jilly Cooper

“I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.” - Barbara Jordan

“ALL men keep ALL women in a state of fear” - Susan Brownmiller

"I feel that ‘man hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them” - Robin Morgan

"Woman's degradation is in man's idea of his sexual rights. Our religion, laws, customs, are all founded on the belief that woman was made for man.” - Elizabeth Cady Stanton

These are all feminists

[Soteris]

@SolitarySolace... So? Even if what you said is true, and those are true quotes and even if they were not quote mined, how does that in any way shape or form change my argument?

[SolitarySolace]

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/feminism

Feminism is not about equal rights for both men and women it's a front that you and everyone else is falling for... But don't take my word for it. You could watch the red pill documentary and have an x feminist tell you herself or don't 🤷🏻‍♂️ it's hard for people to come to terms with being wrong about something all their life

[Soteris]

@SolitarySolace That is simply not true and simply claiming it is absurd on its face. You are not going to convince me of anything without giving me actual proof and keep in mind that I live in a country that has a feminist government, I know what they stand for and what they have achieved. Saying that all of that is "a front" is conspiracy nonsense that becomes dumber the more you think about it.

[SolitarySolace]

I met a woman on this app who is fighting for men’s rights and says she hates feminism. She went anon to make her poll titled: “Are you a feminist or anti feminist” you should tell her this

[Soteris]

@SolitarySolace That is anecdotal evidence and can safely be disregarded.

[SolitarySolace]

Go to get question and tell her that

[SolitarySolace]

Her*

[SolitarySolace]

Are you a feminist or anti-feminist? ↗

[Soteris]

@SolitarySolace I literally dont care. Your argument is terrible.

[SolitarySolace]

She would tell you that you’ve been programmed to think the way you do 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Soteris]

@SolitarySolace Let me just remind you that your arguments up until this point has been:
1: A small snipped of text from people you claim to be Feminists bereft of their entire context.
2: You telling me that it is totally a front bro and trust me bro.
3: I meet a girl that agrees with what I said and the only reason I bring her up is either because A: She is a woman and that somehow gives her a higher credibility on this issue which is a stupid argument and I hope you did not do it for this reason, or B: Because she has better arguments than you do and you do not have anything more to contribute to this conversation which brings up the question why I should continue talking to you?

Point is, you have not said anything of actual value this entire time. This is not about me being programmed or not, this is about you not even knowing what you yourself believe in. You can't make any arguments because you do not understand what we are talking about. If anything, it is you that has fallen for some form of propaganda to form such strong beliefs without the ability to defend them.

[SolitarySolace]

You’re right. I give up. I don’t care anymore

[MrOracle]

Feminism has NEVER fought for any men's rights - and in fact it's a tenet of the movement that they never fight for male rights, because they see that as a betrayal of Feminism. Several big Feminist leaders, including Gloria Steinem, have made this quite clear.

You've been brainwashed to believe that Feminism is an equality movement, but it isn't and it never was. That's just the marketing - like Chrysler's "Corinthian Leather" - completely invented. In fact, it is a female superiority movement.

[Soteris]

@MrOracle What utter trash. I will do you a favor and repeat myself. I live in a country that is controlled by an explicitly stated feminist government. They have made the very deliberate action of for example extending paternity leave to match maternity leave and therefore give men the same rights as women in this regard.

You are asking me to renounce reality and adopt your fictional view of the world because nothing you say makes any sense.

Furthermore, feminism has both a definition and an ideology that is heavily rooted in equality. That means that there is a test we can perform to confirm if something is actually feminist or not. That also means I dont have to give a shit about who or what claims to be feminist because it is not their words that matter but rather if they clear the definition of a feminist or not.

Anyone who claims to be feminist but support gender inequality such as female supremacy is by definition, not actually a feminist. Anytime someone like you tries to tell me that the feminist movement is not actually about equality I just laugh out loud since if that was actually true, then they would not be feminists in the first place.

But knowing you I dont think much of this will sink in.

[MrOracle]

I suppose I should have specified American Feminism. I can't speak to whatever country you are referring to, but things work very differently here.

[Soteris]

@MrOracle There is only one feminism. Its not like there are regional differences in equality or whatever. Qualifying it as "American Feminism" is a pointless distinction.

[MrOracle]

That's where you couldn't be more wrong. Social issues are VERY different in North America.

[Soteris]

@MrOracle Social issues, yes, but not the ideology or the methods. The differences you are pointing out is simply the starting point but all feminists are working towards the same goal using the same methods. That is what makes it a ideological movement.

[MrOracle]

Pull the wool off your eyes. In America, Feminism is NOT an equality movement. That's why so few (only 36%, and still dropping) women identity as feminists. Even most women recognize it (as practiced here) as having gone way too far. Many women recognize the detrimental effects of it as well.

[Soteris]

@MrOracle You do realize that I dont hold Americans in very high regard right? If I consider Feminism to be the correct position and you tell me that only 36% of women identify as such that is not telling me that there is anything wrong with Feminism, its telling me that Americans are even worse than I initially thought.

I mean, if you want to go down that path I am not going to stop you but it will not have the effect you think it does.

[b_lova]

I think you have read to much into this.

If I fight for feminism rights as a guy am I also fighting for Men's Rights?

[CrabCakes11]

Feminism and men’s rights go hand and hand.

[SolitarySolace]

Please explain how because I have reason to believe that is not true at all

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace Feminism advocates for the fair treatment of women and men. That inherently means that men benefit from it

[SolitarySolace]

How have men benefited from it? I have seen far more contradictions to that claim that not

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace Feminism seeks to deconstruct toxic masculinity, which is detrimental to both women and men, as it perpetuates toxic ideals to men.

[SolitarySolace]

Toxic masculinity has, if anything, demonized men instead of helped men

[SolitarySolace]

Feminists claim feminizing men is somehow better… it’s not

[SolitarySolace]

I believe I didn’t say what I meant to correctly… feminists Attempt at deconstructing toxic masculinity has only demonized men instead of helped men. I hope that clears up any confusion

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace exactly, that’s the point.

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace How exactly?

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace I don’t think feminists are “feminizing men”. What makes you think that?

[SolitarySolace]

Look, I’m really trying to be civil here and you’re just hitting every nerve I have in my body…

[SolitarySolace]

You don’t think feminists would rather men embrace feminine traits as opposed to masculine traits?

[SolitarySolace]

They tell boys it’s wrong to be masculine which is what boys are supposed to be.

[SolitarySolace]

I hope you are open enough to watch this https://youtu.be/n6ZRu6Fbfcc?si=ypeI2LNvMMJGPKRf

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace That’s pretty sensitive. Maybe we should stop talking if it’s affecting you poorly.

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace No. feminists want men to adopt healthy traits, which is neither feminine or masculine

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace They don’t do that. Boys aren’t “supposed to be masculine”. They can be whatever they want, masculine, feminine, or a mix. Everybody is different

[SolitarySolace]

That is the problem right there.

[SolitarySolace]

There is nothing toxic about masculinity

[SolitarySolace]

You’re hurting boys and men by claiming that masculinity is toxic

[SolitarySolace]

Also by saying that boys can be anything other than masculine is diverting from nature

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace I’ve probably seen this before. I’ve seen Jordan Peterson content.

[SolitarySolace]

It’s sad that you think the way you do you’re just hurting men and boys…

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace Masculinity isn’t inherently toxic. There are toxic versions though, ie “boys don’t cry”, “men must be stoic”, “don’t be vulnerable around your girlfriend”, “being a light weight is weak”

[SolitarySolace]

There are reasons for those sayings that a woman will never can never understand women shouldn’t be defining what masculinity is that isn’t their place

[SolitarySolace]

You wouldn’t want a man to define what it means to be feminine right?

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace Masculinity is a social construct. Your argument is an appeal to nature fallacy anyways.

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace I was about to say the same about you.

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace I truly wouldn’t care how people define a subjective concept. Ideas of masculinity and femininity is constantly changing.

[SolitarySolace]

😪 let’s just agree to disagree… I’m too tired to attempt to get you to understand that your ideology is hurting men and boys… I would know because I am a man… I feel the negative affects feminism is having on men every day…

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace I disagree. Masculinity is not an exclusively male trait.

[CrabCakes11]

@SolitarySolace lol whatever you say. Good on you for taking care of your mental health. I mean that sincerely

[SolitarySolace]

… it is an exclusively male trait… you can’t honestly believe that it isn’t…

[SolitarySolace]

Right… the only reason I have to is because of women

[SolitarySolace]

@Simslover92

[Simslover92]

@CrabCakes11 Feminism and men's rights do not go hand in hand. Feminism is to uplift women's rights and often dimisses men's rights especially today's Feminism. There are so many issues within the male world that is left unchecked. For instance, why aren't women fighting for women to be in the selective service that is exclusively for men, if you want things to be so equal? Why do men usually lose out in custody battles and lose everything when they are good men? Why is domestic violence against men go unnoticed? Why are more and more men getting falsely accused of rape? These are just some of the few things that are often left in the background and women's rights are put in the forefront because women's rights today is seen as more important. So no it doesn't go hand in hand if one is deemed more important than the other.

[CrabCakes11]

“why aren't women fighting for women to be in the selective service that is exclusively for men”

We are.

“ Why do men usually lose out in custody battles and lose everything when they are good men”

Do you have a source for “good men lose custody battles”

“Why is domestic violence against men go unnoticed?”

Feminism is against domestic abuse against men.

“ Why are more and more men getting falsely accused of rape?”

Do you have a source for the amount of men being falsely accused of rape going up? Most rapists are never reported and even if they are plenty of them go free.

[Simslover92]

www.divorcelawyersformen.com/.../

Only 18.3% get granted custody. That's a lot of men to not get custody of their children. You can't tell me that some of these men aren't good men.

This article sort of talks about the men getting falsely accused of rape:

www.avoidjail.net/.../

But since the #metoo movement more and more men are getting falsely accused.

www.forbes.com/.../?sh=28ab6967864d

[laly520]

men's rights aren't against feminism
both women n men rights r human rights

[SolitarySolace]

“The male - I have found - is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness and kindness, can be trained to do most things.” - Jilly Cooper

“I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.” - Barbara Jordan

“ALL men keep ALL women in a state of fear” - Susan Brownmiller

"I feel that ‘man hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them” - Robin Morgan

"Woman's degradation is in man's idea of his sexual rights. Our religion, laws, customs, are all founded on the belief that woman was made for man.” - Elizabeth Cady Stanton

These are all feminists

[Imsmurter1]

Feminism is about respect and respecting men is just as important as respecting women. People are important and cannot be trampled on.

[SolitarySolace]

“The male - I have found - is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness and kindness, can be trained to do most things.” - Jilly Cooper

“I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it.” - Barbara Jordan

“ALL men keep ALL women in a state of fear” - Susan Brownmiller

"I feel that ‘man hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them” - Robin Morgan

"Woman's degradation is in man's idea of his sexual rights. Our religion, laws, customs, are all founded on the belief that woman was made for man.” - Elizabeth Cady Stanton

These are all feminists.

[msc545]

No offense, but your logic is a bit skewed.

[SolitarySolace]

How of their logic skewed?

[msc545]

@SolitarySolace I don't think feminists appreciate women who speak up for men. All 5 of those women...

[SolitarySolace]

Apparently it doesn’t matter feminism and men’s rights are one in the same

[msc545]

@SolitarySolace I think not.

[msc545]

I think that men fight for basic rights and survival. I think feminists fight or more privileges.

[SolitarySolace]

I don’t care anymore

[msc545]

@SolitarySolace really I don't either...

[Nifrayu]

Both obviously.

[strateguy632]

1st,

[boobliker]

she doing both