Is college designed to put students in debt?

[Bethany94]

The college I go to is around 17k a year plus books. It's a PA state college, one of the cheapest in the state.

Minimum wage is 7.25 in PA. If I took a year off school and worked 40 hours a week every week and had my parents pay for everything, including gas, I would only make about 15k.

I'm obviously freaking out about going into debt. I already have government loans, and now I have to take out private loans. I'm going to end up paying somewhere around $150,000 in loans with the interest calculated in.

Now, no one wants a bunch of uneducated idiots. Sure, there are scholarships and stuff, but my school doesn't have any that I'm eligible for. I have a 3.7 GPA but there are poorer people in my school, and I guess it doesn't matter that all my dad's income goes for paying my mom's medical bills. So why is college only for those who have rich parents, those who are lucky enough to get a scholarship (like I said, 3.7 GPA in a state school where only 60% of students graduate), or those who drive themselves deep into debt?

Please, no one tell me about how they worked 60 hours a week and put themselves through school 20 years ago. There aren't any colleges within commuting distance so I have to live on campus and I have a job. I can only work the hours they give me.

[Anonymous]

I am very pleased to see this question. I had a similar question and took a slating for it. I basically said that not everyone needs to go to university, it's a culture thing. Universities are for academics in my eyes, and it's become an expense drinking holiday from life.

I don't think it's designed to put people in debt, the concept of uni is great... but not in this climate. The fees are going up because less people are going, and less people are going because there's less money and less certainty of a job after university.

On the other hand, I do not think that everyone should be going to uni, by which I mean people who are not gifted in the academic subjects. The art subjects would be much better at specially designed places (which are currently elitist only, and that's fine, but have some available to the adequate among us) or fairer apprenticeship schemes. I'm all for learning on the job but I'm not sure why someone who is working a full time job and at college gets the benefit of a £2.60 wage when the person next to them doing the same job without the college is on £6.something an hour...

Before people say things like well what about if you want a good degree, blah blah. NO. We have Preston, and Oxford and Cambridge and all those unis that you know if you went there you're good. But you still chose to go to the other ones. I'm basically saying tier it so the 'less good' ones are more affordable and offer the same as they are now. More people would be willing to go if it didn't put you debt for the rest of you're life to do a job you could have done without going.

[Salostar]

Regarding apprenticeships ?2.60 is more than enough to learn on the job and study at the same time, the current problem is the lack of them. I say that as someone who chose an apprenticeship to going to uni.

There are companies that will take an apprentice on for training and once the apprenticeship is complete take on another. There are also companies that will take on an apprentice and once the training is complete keep them on. In either case experience is gained.

[bratbunny]

The top 20 universities aside, if you were to price college tuition as the present value of the discounted cash flows of "additional" lifetime earnings caused by the degree conferred onto a student, less 35% (to represent some profit the student would have to earn over his or her lifetime in order to make college a good investment), that number would be negative. Meaning, colleges would have to PAY YOU MONEY in order to attend! The same is true even if you remove the 35% discount and just assumed a break-even.

In other words, you are getting something worth much less than what you're giving up in order to get it. It's like agreeing to buy a 1996 Toyota Camry for $220,000 @ 6.8% interest.

For guys, there are plenty of good alternatives to college, because physical or manual jobs actually pay more than $50k a year (i.e., police officers, firefighters, construction, etc.)

What legal jobs are there for women that pay more than $50k a year without a college degree?

[Bethany94]

In Nevada prostitution is legal!

[bratbunny]

Yeah, I know. But still. You know what I mean. Some normal job where a girl doesn't have to result to that lol

[Theguyoverthere]

I stopped at an Associate's once I saw how much of a scam it was. We have so many people with degrees and no jobs and I am not about to be one of those people. Plenty of people regret getting their degree and now have a super expensive piece of paper that will get them absolutely nothing.

The school system brainwashes people into becoming mindless sponges that will believe anything that comes out of a textbook, and that the professor is always right, even when he/she is wrong or their information is outdated. These same people will preach "You should go to college to get an education" yet don't have enough common sense simply save their money and use their tax dollars by getting a library card and finding the information they want themselves.

The reality is that people go to college to get a degree for their career choice. The problem is that jobs are becoming less concerned with degrees and hiring for less money. on the job training/experience is far more valuable to a job compared to a kid that sat at a desk all day writing papers who is hoping to demand a higher wage from the same employer. So the big problem

[Anonymous]

Government likes people going to college because it massages the employment figures and more importantly it helps to turn kids into obedient adults who won't question the state. It all goes back to the Prusssian school system and John Dewey and people like that.

As for the academic world itself, it's a HUGE vested interest. We're living in the age of the Internet, yet for some reason it's still thought necessary for students to live in expensive dorms and buy expensive books to listen to the same lectures that last year's students heard. I wonder why... Could it be the money? Yes, colleges generally like to portray themselves as left-wing and radical and putting 'people before profit' and all that. But in the end they're in it for the money. I wouldn't mind except that it's a highly regulated market, where new competitors are prevented by the law from offering better alternatives. I graduated from college last year, and I have to say you could have the same quality of education for a fraction of the price, especially if you major in arts/humanities rather than sciences. It's a racket.

[Opinion Owner]

And in the US, now 70% of people go to college. bear in mind that almost by definition 50% of the population is below average intelligence. Are we really saying that it's a good use of time, money and effort for below-average people to have an academic higher education? Also, we need to rethink whether some jobs need university degrees at all.

[MrOracle]

Of course it is. That way, you'll be USED to being in debt and being a slave to the government. Keep in mind that most of your college professors have tenure, which means they more-or-less can't be fired, and have a good salary and benefits regardless of how they perform. The school has to pay for that somehow.

It's one thing if you are in science or engineering, and you have a good chance to make good money and repay your loans, but with law (which is WAY overpopulated), medical (Obamacare will greatly erode pay for medical careers), or liberal arts degrees, you will be screwed, and there's no bankruptcy for government loans.

We COULD be doing on-line college (aka University of Phoenix-style) for a small fraction of the cost of traditional college, but traditional colleges fight that every step of the way, because it threatens a lot of cushy jobs.

[Bethany94]

Those online things aren't really seen as real degrees. They also can't transfer anywhere. If you're getting a job that requires college, no specific degree, than the online classes would work, but for jobs you actually need a degree in it won't fly.

However, at least I'm not majoring in art. I do have that going for me.

[Bob1227]

Do you understand what a tenured professor has to go through to reach tenure? They deserve every penny they make if not more. That isn't the reason these schools cost so much anyway. It's all of this bull***** that they have on campuses these days like huge rec centers and football stadiums. My university has a small waterpark at its rec center. That is where all the money is going.

[Bethany94]

I just had a class with a tenured prof. It was online and on the exam there were several questions asking about what we talked about in class. We didn't have class, we have a book and a powerpoint to download, neither of which covered the questions. I brought this to his attention and he said oh I was going to change that. The rest of the exams still had the same type of classes. Some professors are just a**holes.

[MrOracle]

It doesn't matter. In the real world, you have to perform EVERY DAY, or you risk losing your job. Only in academia does this concept of "tenure" exist, where once you get it, you can do pretty much whatever you like and still get paid and keep your position. Many tenured professors do very, very little. Some are great, absolutely, but tenure prevents getting rid of the dead wood, or having a performance-based pay scale, like everywhere else in the world.

[Bob1227]

I understand that there a bad professors, as a college student I understand that completely. I'm not really trying to argue that professors should have this ultimate job security or anything like that. All I was really trying to say is that most professors don't get payed the money that they deserve, and are not the cause of the rising cost of education.

[MrOracle]

That's also due to the lack of a normal free market. Without a tenure system, the dead weight would be eliminated, and there would be more money to pay the great professors better. Any system that isn't based on merit is going to decline.

[cavmanier]

I don't think it's designed to put you in debt. It's designed to give you an education in the field you choose. College is still very subsidized by tax payers. Without the subsidies it would be several times more money. Private schools which aren't subsidized, cost closer to 50k per year. You might even feel lucky because with a bleak outlook, in my opinion, in the next 10+ years America will be even less willing to pay for college. We spend $1.60 for every dollar we pay taxes on so we aren't in so at some point expenditures will be cut.

[Anonymous]

Why would it be an institution's goal to put people in debt? I realize your title was meant more as a hyperbole, but if people were put into debt by it on purpose they wouldn't attend like they do and the schools wouldn't offer ways to help cover the costs.

You aren't going to be paying for school while you're in it, unless you happen to get some kind of really unfair loan. Even a lot of private bank loans wait until you graduate to start demanding payments on the loan. I'm currently in school and I'm completely covered by my Stafford loans and am not paying a cent back until 6 months after I graduate.

[Bethany94]

The stafford loans are government loans though. The interest is lower. A private loan for 10k will end up 25k by the time you've paid it all off (with interest). I only have about 1/3 of my college covered by government loans and while I don't have to pay that during school, I'll be making loan payments for 10 years. If I get an entry level position at about 30k, that means I won't be able to save for anything or buy a house until those loans are paid off.

[Theguyoverthere]

The problem is that the degrees aren't getting people the income levels they desire anymore or even a job at all period. More and more people are not going to be attending school as time goes on and people see how much of a scam the college system really is.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't say its designed to put students in dept. Its just that they are institutions that thrive off profit so they charge as much as they can, so long as people are willing to pay for it. Unfortunately, society pretty much requires you to get a college degree so there is a massive demand for colleges. That's why they get away with charging so much, they don't give a crap how you get the money to pay them. All they care is that you pay them.

That's why the education in this country is so eff-ed up.

[ktmrcr2011]

No but it can have an affect on your debt life is about knowing the right people and having connections and being good at something not about your education. many people think well I have degree although it may be something outstanding doesn't mean anything talk with anybody high up in a company they didn't just get there from having a degree they got it from being social a good portfolio knowing people and having those connections I know answer is all over the place and repetitive but I don't know how to put it any other way.

[peace-love-couture]

In my opinion, no

But since most people don't understand money, they end up in debt. People shouldn't go to schools that are too expensive if they afford it

My school costs $61,000 a year. Why would anyone with common sense come here if they'll end up in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt? That's poor decision making

So the setup is the rich stay on too while others on the bottom. Unless those in the bottom go to realistic schools

[Bethany94]

You're going to a school that costs $61,000? And you can afford that. So you're spoiled rich and you're saying that us on the bottom should just set our standards low and go to crappy community colleges to get average jobs? Just stick with the status quo?

[peace-love-couture]

I never said that

There are affordable colleges. Going to a school out of ones reach is dumb and they're putting themselves in debt by taking out loans

[enigmatta]

You say that because you never really had to struggle. Did you ever need to work to get you through school, in the first place? Decision making is very easy for those who have little to lose.

[peace-love-couture]

It's common sense

[Bethany94]

No, it's not common sense to want to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. As a girl, I can't get physical jobs. I can work as a secretary, a daycare worker, or something along those lines. I would hate both jobs. Everything else needs a college degree or the strength to due manual labor. Have you ever even worked before? I said that I'm going to one of the cheapest schools in my state. The community colleges in my area are sh*t. Going there was not an option.

[peace-love-couture]

Blaming gender. Interesting

[Bethany94]

I physically cannot work as a policeman, fireman, construction worker, army, or any of those good paying jobs that you don't need a degree for with high physical demand. The highest I could shoot for would be manager, but that would still be working at somewhere like McDonalds. Again, have you any idea of what people who *aren't* spoiled rotten have to go through?

[peace-love-couture]

I must be spoiled rotten, right? good thing I'm not broke with a foot up my ass

[Bethany94]

"Oh I'm going to a school that costs $61,000 a year and have never worked a day in my life." I'm sorry that I made the assumption that you're spoiling. I'm sure your life was very hard.

I don't have a foot up my ass, I'm just tired of rich people with no sense of reality.

[peace-love-couture]

"and have never worked a day in my life."

Putting words in my mouth. you just lost all credibility

[Bethany94]

Twice you were asked if you've ever worked a day in your life, twice you declined to answer. I'm going with what you gave me. Are you paying any of the $250,000 of your college education? Stop trying to deny that you're a spoiled rich kid. Unless your parents sold you to a Mexican drug lord to pay for all this, there's probably nothing in your life you can complain about.

[peace-love-couture]

I actually have 2 jobs, thank you very much. But, since it's obvious you know everything about me, I don't think we have anything further to discuss

[Anonymous]

Colleges are business. They want to make money. If that means putting you and other students in debt, so be it. It's a rather unpleasant realization, isn't it?

[DutchAtheist]

You should consider studying in Europe. I studied at a Dutch and a Belgian University:1500 and 500 euro a year.

[stillagoodgirl]

Lmao ya it sure seems like it but I think when we get jobs it should be easy to pay off.

Like we pay for our diploma to get a better higger paying job

[drjohno]

Yes

https://youtu.be/GkrTa4RMpDw

[abundantlyrich]

Sorry to tell you're a slave of the system, corporations and banks.

[cherokeeblake1]

Community colleges are cheaper versus universities.

[Anonymous]

Yeah it pretty much is lol. I'm glad there's a community college next to me that's only 4000 dollars a year and with my financial aid it's only about 2000 dollars a year

[Anonymous]

I would say its one of their goals hahah

[Anonymous]

to an extent yes

[Anonymous]

Yes.

[Anonymous]

yes, to me it is