Man As Initiator: Why Courtship Roles Shouldn't Change🚶🏽💭❤️

Yes, I'm a traditional girl. No, I'm not stuck in the 50's.

I believe in gender roles and their benefits, but not necessarily that one must confine themselves to the way society expects an individual to perform.

Society has progressed. Society has opened HIS mind to include the possibility of HERstory too, and I as a woman am thankful to now have the opportunities I do, as opposed to the past.

Education, voting, household duties, rights, the workplace, status... it's all changing, and will continue to. Changes like these needed to be made to produce a society that recognises everyone.

But what about love? ... Well, I don't believe the roles in courtship [as in, a serious relationship] should change at all.

Man As Initiator🚶🏽💭❤️

I believe in man as the initiator-

the instigator.

Now if you are a human who is tired of tradition

then these coming thoughts may disturb you,

so I'll save you some time and bid you adieu.

Let us start with the question

of 'why must I, as man, make the first move?

Why is this not the role of a woman...

and what exactly does this prove?'

The answer appears when she hears these 3 words:

"I.Choose.YOU."

I

Interpret this 'I' as confidence. Yup, y'all know how sexy it is! You... as a man who is sure of himself, and sure of the decision that he is making. This is the decision that comes from YOUR heart, after all your years of experience, or even lack thereof. Can you see how different it is to "she chose me?"

Think to yourself... "Who is 'she'? 'She' is more prone to emotion than I am anyway, and this is not a gender construction. This is biology, it is proven psychology. So 'she', realistically, could choose me, yet what foundation lies behind her choice that differentiates me from somebody else?"

Choose

This is important. It's the central argument of mytake. Most [not all] men have a huge issue with commitment, or envisioning a LONG future with one woman anyway. A lot of women [again, not all] on the other hand, envision that emotional bond quite easily. Therefore, it holds, in my eyes, more value for a man to essentially abandon his instincts and CHOOSE a woman to call his. Linking back to the biological perspective, very few species of animals and birds mate with one partner for life. Across ALL species however, the males ALWAYS begin the courtship ritual AND they instinctively aim to seduce the female they are interested in through various performances or indicators. So, forgive me for this next inquiry... but why is it that the human mind has to complicate 'mating' so much that it's now become a battle of 'who should be doing what'?... Could it be that these animals are in fact, more intelligent than us, in simply not overthinking?

YOU

You decided that it was no one else but Her.

Her.

Not that other girl whom you once had a crush on,

not the hottest chick on campus,

not the popular one that every guy was trying to get with,

not the one you only wanted to fuck for a night or two,

not the 'going- out-every-night-with-my-boys' life,

not the 'getting-laid-with-a-different-girl- every- night' life,

not the 'i'm- too-shy- to-even- go-near-her' life,

not the 'i'm-scared-she'll-reject-me' life,

not the 'i'll-be-popular-if-i-get-her' life,

... but the 'I Just Want To Be With Her' life. <3

I can tell you boys now, that in the mind of a woman, for you to choose us amid everything else- to be chosen.. singled out as 'the one' or even 'potentially the one', is one of the most amazing feelings in the world. I hate that I can't adequately type it out in description to make you understand.

It takes a strong man to make an effort for a woman- to hold her and say 'I choose you'... because that's not all that's happening.

You're saying so much more.

... God I love controversy. Ready for the shitstorm. ✌🏽

PS: I wanna add a note for any women who will take offence to this or begin talking about how they like approaching men. Never said you shouldn't, keep doing you boo boo, even I've done it a number of times. I have nothing against that. That's not the point of this mytake.

~j.B🍌


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justbanANNAz is a GirlsAskGuys Editor
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Most Helpful Guy

  • You say you believe in the benefits offered by gender roles. But what benefits? The benefits are not to be found on this side of the road. This is just an example of women holding all the cards in dating, and giving away all the responsibilities to the man so the woman won't be hurt or inconvenienced. Women expect men to invest their emotions and money into her before she will invest anything in us. A relationship is supposed to be mutual, like dancing. Instead it's one sided like a job interview.

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    • I'm just going to point out that my ex would have called me the definition of romantic and a gentleman. Doing nice things for her and surprising her and all that was actually fun in large part because she didn't expect me to. And she would return the favor too. My ex gave me the option to sleep with other women, she opened up our relationship but only on my end. And I never even tried to sleep with anyone else. She chose me in the beginning and I chose her right back when I could have done whatever I wanted. But women like you, you're toxic. You consider yourself and how you wish to be treated and give no consideration to the other side or what you are bringing to the table to make it worthwhile. And this sense of romantic entitlement is so widespread that it just ruins dating for almost everyone. Being a gentleman for a girl who expects you to be a gentleman isn't cute or fun, it's a chore and that's what women like you have turned dating into for men.

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    • @BuchitaBuchys
      wth Buchita replying to 14 day old thread. Drunk?
      Tell us what women do in relationships.

    • @BuchitaBuchys women don't do anything at the start of a relationship. Not apologizing for the truth.

Most Helpful Girl

  • I'd have to disagree here. It seems that you're implying that women are not supposed to "choose" their mates since that's only a man's job. You also keep talking about confidence when really, the fact that you don't approach just show lack of confidence on your part.

    And there's no way to know if a guy likes you back unless you actually let him know. If you don't make a move, there's a big chance that you might just have to let him go. This decreases your chances of finding a partner by a lot. It also doesn't help that most guys these days are terrible at reading signals.

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    • "PS: I wanna add a note for any women who will take offence to this or begin talking about how they like approaching men. Never said you shouldn't, keep doing you boo boo, even I've done it a number of times. I have nothing against that. That's not the point of this mytake."

    • Yeah I know. I wasn't offended or anything. Just voicing my own opinion :)

Join the discussion

What Guys Said 42

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    • So I read this whole thing, and my first thought was, "you can easily turn all this around". Then I saw this.

      I shouldn't even be surprised. 11/10

    • @93stepsawayfromhome I didn't even read it and I agree with you.

    • @Slikmix technically it's pretty much the same thing except it makes the claim that "yes, gender roles should change" and then "women" is changed to "men" and vice versa. And there were other minor changes, but it's pretty much the same, except it's the opposite :D

  • What you don't understand is that we as men like to know that we're her choice, too. Younger women tend to be so focused on what they want that they often overlook this very crucial fact. I don't want to go chasing some woman around trying to convince her to like me. That feels desperate and disrespectful to myself.

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    • i like how u think i completely ignored a man's point of view, just because i didn't talk about it. if i did, id be writing forever, so ur response is expected before i press submit.

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    • Ok, then accept what I'm writing as a counterpoint to what you wrote. As I intoned, attraction is a two-way street. It's fine that women like yourself want to maintain traditional roles in dating. Just remember that it's not all about what women want.

    • thank you for your input.

  • A woman is not supposed to be something we choose, work hard to prove ourselves to, then finally have. Love is reciprocal, she should at least take a few steps for my hundred steps. Otherwise, she would be just another shampoo on the shelf ; I would be choosing without knowing if it is really the one for me ;)

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    • ... i dont know why people are thinking that I'm oblivious to the fact that love goes both ways, just because I've chosen to focus on one particular angle...

  • The starting premise is inaccurate as women have always been treated better then men, just as they are today, in fact your entire take proves it. It essentially states that men where sexist and treated women poorly and I want to be treated special like men use to treat women. It's contradictory. Either women where treated poorly or they where not. Men couldn't vote for almost all of history (only earning the right 67 years before women i. e. one generation) but unlike women men where forced into multiple types of conscription unlike women and where legally required to provide for there wives (coveture for instance required the man to pay taxes on his wife's property which is why he was granted the property it being unfair to make him responsible for it and giving him no authority over it. This is also why he would be arrested if his wife incurred a debt that HE couldn't pay) which is why women where against women's suffrage because they did not wish to have the same responsibilities/lose there special priviledges. As for your seasonings for rigid gender roles that only apply to men but not women, why should a man do all of this for you? You get to be pampered and to feel special but what does he get other then the priviledge of getting used by you? See you have completely ignored his wants and needs (i. e. objectified him) in your entire take you have states that he should stick to his gender role because it's beneficial to you. The reason employees pay there employees or why you have to provide a good or service to get a customer to pay you is because any other system is not going to benefit the individual in question and thus will insure that they not participate. Women who think as you do are the reason men do not act in the way you want, because it's to your benefit and there detriment. He takes the risk he puts in the time he puts on the resources and you. . . Give nothing in return. It's easier for him to simply go out and get a one night stand then do all of this, at least this way he invests fewer resources and gets some kind of pay off. Refusal to reciprocate in any fashion is only going to ensure what you want to happen won't, after all nobody wants to be some one else's slave/tool.

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    • Lol GaG men are such self victimising babies

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    • @BuchitaBuchys Its Irrelevent that's whats frustrating about this. Who the fuck care who mentioned it first? That's why this is pathetic. Their are actual problems and your ignoring it your trying to start a fight your trying to ignore the male issues by down playing them then claiming women have issues too which is just a way of saying that those are the issues that matter not the ones that affect men.

    • You mentioned it first though lol I literally responded to that. Had you not said it, I wouldn't have said what I said. Duh. This is 1st grade shit

  • The fact that you're an "editor" for this site proves how idiotic it is.

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    • coming from someone who hasn't been here long, that doesn't mean much to me.

  • I I feel like the odds of a girl having a boyfriend is somehow greater than the opposite.
    " but why is it that the human mind has to complicate 'mating' so much that it's now become a battle of 'who should be doing what'? "
    Wired into random mammals and other species to do displays to attract the opposite sex, how things go.

    Anyway I personally believe it should change a bit. GIrls are generally pickier than guys and a lot of them sit there and wait for the specific guy to do something , when he never does they get incredibly salty and forget they have two legs + a mouth and can also initiate haha. I wouldn't say most men have a huge issue with commitment when there are so many girls posting here with 'I'm basically bored of my boyfriend now, should I dump?' haha.

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  • 1. tell that to all the feminazis who complain about white male supremacy all day long xD

    2. i disagree with those feminazis but i disagree with you too. yeah i understand it is hot if a guy you like does that to you. everybody would like that but how is the guy supposed to know that you´d like him to do it?

    3. in my opinion, this point of view you present is just cowardly giving responsibility away, not taking any initiative, just letting them do everything to you. pretty much the negative female equivalent to a male macho.

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  • I could never be with a traditional person. In most cases it seems that they want the guy to do everything while she sits by and Benefits by it. Typically the traditional girl wants the guy to take all of risks so she doesn't. You could be different but that seems to be the way most traditional girls are.

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  • I dont think this dynamic has actually changed much, despite what people say. Something i've observed without fail is that you have to chase the people you really want and get chased by the people you would only find passable. Without sounding conceited, almost every girl that has ever approached me with real intent at a relationship has not been quite my type either looks or personality wise and my lasting relationships have always been with girls i've pursued.

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  • While I don't mind being the person who starts things I do have to emphasize that men enjoy hearing that just as much as you do - Maybe more.

    So I am not against it. Since men are more likely to be rejected I suppose it does show more confidence. That said over here it is (in my personal experience) more common that women initiate than men.
    Same goes for practically everywhere. Here the girl will actually walk up to you and tell you she's into you. In the states she'll wink and flirt from a distance. Show you that inviting smile.
    Women have pretty much always been the initiators either way. Some people just fail to see it.

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    • i am aware of the male's point of view, even though i didn't include it. that wasn't the point of the mytake.

      i appreciate your understanding though, so thanks.

    • you dont have the first clue about the male POV justbanANNAz

  • that you assume that most men have issues with commitment is ridiculous.

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  • This is all fine but the hookup culture means there aren't any worth choosing... similar to that list you mentioned...''You decided that it was no one else but Her.''

    ''Her... not the girl whom you had a crush on... or the hot chick on the campus'' etc etc...

    Problem is that when you chose a woman in today's hookup culture, she has already been with Tyron, Jim, John, Ron, Rob, Mark, Mick, Mike, Tim, Jack, Harry, Steve, Jane, Julie, Mary, Lucinda, Melony, Jules, and... Dick...

    It goes both ways... no matter what way you phrase it, there is no point in dedicating and investing in someone that has invested in everyone...

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    • Amen! If a girl want's to be my "one and only" she needs to meet me half way. You can't get the part if you can't play the part ;)

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    • @Theo1987 It's not impossible but the problem is that when it eventually fails with that needle in a haystack, you will have a hard time finding another one. This is why I simply do not bother... it would be like visiting the local sewer each weekend hoping to find an area that was not covered with...

    • That is something I can agree on :/ When I'm rejected by a good girl it hurts a heck of a lot more. It's like misplacing a winning lottery ticket.

  • It's a good perspective. I like that you mentioned how in all of the animal kingdom, males almost always attract the females first. There is truth to that. However, no other animals have progressed as fast and as amazingly as humans have. We rule the world for God's sake. We broke out of our genetic programming and with each generation, our way of thinking changes.

    Personally, I think men should be the assertive ones and the ones to lead women in romantic and sexual courses. Women find it sexy and it's fun to ask the girls out. Kind of like honing a skill to attract mates. So as the world changes i look forward to being approached by women just as much as doing the approaching myself.

    Woman gets mad points for having the balls to go up to a guy and talk to him though.

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    • Thanks, i agree with all u said and i loved how u civilly expressed ur own view. Thank u.

  • This is a good take and for the most part I think it's fairly true although people are nothing if not diverse so it's unlikely that we will have a one size fits all solution to these problems.

    Also, this is wrong in my opinion.

    "Across ALL species however, the males ALWAYS begin the courtship ritual AND they instinctively aim to seduce the female they are interested in through various performances or indicators. So, forgive me for this next inquiry... but why is it that the human mind has to complicate 'mating' so much that it's now become a battle of 'who should be doing what'? Could it be that these animals are in fact, more intelligent than us, in simply not overthinking?"

    Humans are by far the most socially complex species on the planet. We also have the ability to destroy the planet. Therefore it's important that we don't let instinct/biology determine how we choose mates because if we continue to do so we WILL destroy the planet and likely our selvs along with it.

    For example the female instinct to nest, gather resources and choose a high status/high resource mate is what prevents us from going extinct while we evolved and developed technology, in that sense it is a very good thing.

    However, in the modern era that instinct is a huge factor in what drives us toward our own destruction by destroying our oceans, forests, atmosphere, global warming, war, huge divides between rich and poor, etc...

    So for humans I think it's very important that we overthink this stuff and try to figure out how we can curb our instinctual drives or direct them in a positive way instead. Otherwise we will destroy our selves and the world with us.

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  • Translation - Women should get all the good of changing gender roles and none of the bad.

    Sorry but it doesn't work that way. Men are becoming less willing to "choose" someone in the way you're talking about. Life isn't a Disney film. Both people have to work at relationships and their is no valid reason, in my opinion, that shouldn't also include starting relationships.

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    • Yes, both people need to work at a relationship and do their part, but when it comes to initiating it, guys should show some interest, especially if you have shown it and given him all the signals. Why bother if a guy cannot even make a move and have some initiative? Being confident and getting out there to get what you want is supposed to be a masculine trait. I would not pursue a guy who does not make any effort, and going after a guy usually turns him off.

    • @fleur-de-lys Not really. I've never known anyone who was asked out by a women and was "turned off".

      I do understand the idea that you don't want a man who won't even ask you out but the days where that is the case are gone. I'll ask a women I'm interested in, sure, but the chances I'll ask someone giving me signals is next to nothing. Why? I think the same way you do. If you can't be honest with me and instead feel your "signals" should be enough then I'm not interested in playing this game.

    • @fleur-de-lys

      "Yes, both people need to work at a relationship and do their part, but when it comes to initiating it, girls should show some interest, especially if you have shown it and given her all the signals. Why bother if a girl cannot even make a move and have some initiative?"

      Can easily be turned around and is a non-argument.

  • Once you've met a Frenchwman al these silly English-aristocracy ''''rules' look childish and neurotic.

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  • I unfortunately have to disagree

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  • Just another instance where women want to be treated equally until the rules displeases them. They want the good and leave the grudge to us. It's true, it's much easier to just stand there and wait for a guy to come pluck you and let him do all the efforts. I get why you would want that. But we're men right? We don't get to have it the easy way...

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    • im not sure why people are interpreting men as initiators to men, men putting all the effort into a relationship. it's really annoying, the way people assume I'm so ignorant so as to completely ignore that men have feelings too, JUST because i chose not to write about them.

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    • exactly. Feminist bullshit doublestandards, another ME ME ME article... disgusting.

      fuck that-these are the LAST TYPE of women that good men approach. We approach sweethearts, not entitled brats. the brats are for fucking and dumping... sorry, that's reality.

    • @feminismisnarcissism
      To be honest, while my opinion stands, I really don't think SHE is like that.

  • sigh YOU #littlelioness are next to my heart always with our wisdom and wow you write <3

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  • For women will just choose the most handsome and confident guy, easy for them. Tsk guys have to be rejected multiple times and can't get the women they want.

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  • More from Guys
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What Girls Said 9

  • Meh, I always choose a guy, and I'm not afraid to initiate, I just grab him, and take him ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOfhlYIRCXM

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  • thing is regardless of who initiates BEING in a relationship is saying i CHOOSE TO BE HERE. its easy to pick a person to ask out. or even ask to be your parter. its the actual relationship that takes work and hows by being there and caring that you choose to be there. i really think that who initiates really doesn't matter or prove anything bc its being with each other that matters.

    also it is not proven that Women are more emotional. I've read plenty of studies claiming the opposite. What is documented is just that they are more expressive (probably bc its held against gem if they are not). and i think its demeaning to claim a woman imitating doesn't men anything bc she can't tell the difference from one guy to another. And, anyhow, even if a person were 'more' emotional that means they UNDERSTAND they feelings beer it doesn't men they are therefore incompetent to make decisions.

    i dont have any problem y all with your view and i know many people share it and thats ok.. buy can't agree bc i think

    1 initiating is relatively insignificant in the long run its the easiest part.

    2 women are no less capable of making a solid decision romantically.

    3 a lot of women feel really good having the confidence to go after what they want. its who they are or want to be.

    4. we change over time. we are not as we were 100,000 years ago and -hopefully- we won't be the same 10,000 years from now. experience shaped us and continue to shape us. who we were (which we dont really ow exactly bc there are not note books left in caves by or ancestors) does not explain who we are or who we can be. what it indicates is how we have developed.

    but i can see this issue is important and you put effort into the take, without tying to insult any, so can appreciate tat :-)

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    • Thank u for ur valuable input. I appreciate your understanding and respect for my views, as i respect yours xx

  • Agree or disagree, this is what WORKS - ALL the time.
    Guys, you want to sweep a girl off her feet, listen to this advice.
    You want to be a grumpy old man alone without a girl, fine. That's your choice. While you are grumbling and explaining and deciding the "should"s and "must"s that are based on some theory, the smart guys out there will be getting all the girls by just going by nature's theories and playing the game by it's rules.

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  • I totally agree with you. Men should show some initiative and interest, otherwise, why should we bother? They like the chase and being pursued turns them off. It shows neediness and at worse, desperation. I would be more attracted to a guy who goes for it, who is confident and makes a move than the cutest guy sitting at the bar staring at me and not doing anything, even though I have signalled my interest. Most women want to be conquered, to be wooed. If the guy does not make any effort, why should we respond? We'd just be wasting out time and devotion. This also applies to follow-up after a date. If he does not call back or waits a week or 2 before touching base with you, you should not bother. It shows he's not really interested.

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    • thanks for that input. I'm glad u can understand my perspective.

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    • ill have a think about that. thanks =]

    • @fleur-de-lys out of curiosity. Can you give an example of how you would show a guy interest an signals that you might give. That also wouldn't be interpreted as you just being friendly.

  • Although I don't really agree, I do like how you laid out your points.
    As someone has been rejected by every man she has asked out, it can be frustrating and destroys your self confidence temporarily, at first.
    So I can see how bitter these dudes are.
    I feel that "signals" are a bit silly. And that it can be frustrating.

    However, I do feel that the average man does have final say in commitment. So I can see why it's better for them to initiate. But I still prefer to ask out.

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  • I like a blend of modern and traditional, but it's amazing to me how guys assume traditional roles make it easier for the woman. Really? I could understand that view when it comes to a man who works more and more hours as a single income household feeling very stressed, but most men are working the same amount of hours as women with incomes who simultaneously raise families. Usually traditional women put a lot of expectations on themselves too. Homemaking is not easy, if it was... everyone would be flocking to do it rather than everyone tending towards education and work. The fact that women have been fighting to get away from that and men haven't really rushed to assume those roles says a lot on its own.

    Anyways, I think courtship roles should become whatever they are meant to become. If more and more women become initiators, men will have to adjust and become more meticulous about physical appearance like women in order to keep up. Currently, a man would have his best chance by doing the courting.

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  • i agree

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  • I absolutely loved this mytake and agree with you 100%. This is the way it should always be.

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    • Didn't you call yourself a "feminist"?

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    • Equality and traditionalism when it suits women preferably you mean. You women make me us laugh sometimes, when we can actually see through your deviant sexual strategy so you can control the dating structure for your own benefit, never mind laws about equal pay. These white knights and mangina's might be fooled but there's a lot of guys that aren't.

    • @Mrwoo99 sorry what was that?

  • Lovely take, pretty much summed up my thoughts on it all <3

    To those who disagree, I tried being the initiator, and let me tell you, it failed miserably. Maybe that's just stupid high school boys, but after that, I vowed never again.

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