To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

Anonymous
To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

So after my last experience with dating a man, I have now been able to compile a basic list of things to help you out. Yes, all these dating crimes were committed by a single man (shockingly) but I can now pass this knowledge on and hopefully help improve someone's dating game. I do believe these tips can be utilized by women too. Let's go!

Number 1: Do not be persistent. "If I say no, I say no"

Yes, this guy went there. In fact he went there about 5 times. I had plans for the Saturday and he asked me about 5 times if I couldn't go out with him. I told him first time, second time, third time (you get the drill) that I am not available and he kept pestering me regardless. Now the only idea this put into my mind was that he was annoying. Trust me, you do not ever want to be deemed as annoying by your crush. This is a terrible position to be in and you can hardly ever recover from there. The reality is, if she COULD see you, she would have. Whether she was making up a excuse or was really busy, if she told you she cannot hang out, she CANNOT hang out. Stop asking her the same thing over and over again!

To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

Number 2: After your first date, don't start spamming her Facebook feed like you two are besties

This guy started to comment on EVERYTHING I posted on Facebook. Literally every.single.thing got a comment from him. No, not a "like", a comment! He had to give his input on every song, picture, quote etc. I felt like it was very odd behavior, made me feel very turned off and also slightly started creeping me out. He also didn't make it a secret that he went on my profile to catch up on things he didn't happen to see on his news feed. It got to the point where I always knew if I did anything on FB, I would 100% get a notification of a comment from him. The only thing this did was made him seem clingy, obsessive and desperate. There is nothing wrong with commenting or liking a thing from a crush but please, do so sparingly or keep it RELEVANT. Do not comment on things willy nilly or things that don't even have anything to do with you. I swear this guy managed to get his word on every thing possible and it even started bothering some of my friends who asked why he was involved.

To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

Number 3: Don't brag and don't be arrogant

I don't want to hear every day about how important your job is, how much your boss loves you, how much weights you do at the gym, how people worship you at your favorite restaurant and what you bought yourself and how expensive it is. The only woman this will impress is a "Gold digger". If you want that kinda woman, sure go for it, but for modest, decent women, this will not be impressive, this will be annoying! Yes of course you can reveal something incredible or a big accomplishment on a goal but this shouldn't ever overpower every conversation. Everything shouldn't be about you. You should "brag" sparingly and wisely, only when called for. It becomes annoying really, really quickly if you do this all the time and it comes off as a very negative trait. Also remember to ask your interest about her passions, hobbies and likes. Help her feel good about herself too. It shouldn't be "you" all the time.

To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

Number 4: Don't "like" things on Facebook showing you are a revengeful, bitter ex boyfriend

Yes what you "like" can come up on someone's newsfeed, including your crush's. That bitter "You are trash" memes for ex gf's or bf's could come under your love interest's eyes and then it will only leave one message loud and clear, that is : "I'm not over my ex, I have issues, I cannot be mature about my break up". Yes, breakups sucks and we have all been through it but you gotta get over it and stop being depressive over social media. Especially if you are trying to attract another partner! Keep those thoughts to yourself and let it be. No need to make it a broadcast to everyone that you are still bitter about the ex. It makes you look very childish and made me lose interest just like that. Be careful what you say or share or "like". It may not seem like a big deal to you, but it can tell people things about you, you probably wouldn't want everyone knowing ,let alone a crush!

Number 5: Don't triple text or get clingy over text

I work 8-5. When I work, I work. I don't chit chat on my phone. After work, I drive (I cannot text and drive) and sometimes after work I gym (I cannot do yoga while texting) and when I sit down with family and friends for a meal I am also most certainly not going to text. So moral to the story, sometimes I cannot text you and it doesn't mean there is something wrong with YOU but just that I am busy and have a life to live. To then look at my phone and see 10 messages from said guy, of which the last 2 is "Why have you not texted me back" or "Did I say something wrong" I become very annoyed. No, my life doesn't revolve around you and texting you. When I can, I will. But in the mean time, CHILL and calm down. I will make time when I physically can. It's OK to double text in some situations but for the love of God, if someone is not responding, don't keep sending messages! Please, just stop!

To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman

Number 6: Don't send gifts to her workplace after 2 dates

I'm not even going to elaborate much on this point. It should be very obvious that this is a "no-no". Gifts are OK on the the 7th date maybe or when you're actually exclusively dating, but if you hardly know this person then it is not cool or OK To send them gifts already. It is "too soon" bro. You can maybe give a small gift to her in person on a date but to send her obnoxiously big flowers with a card with a quote on that you very obviously got from the internet along with chocolates, it becomes too too much. Let alone to do this 3 times again after that when she told you that she would rather not do gifts at that stage yet. It becomes very creepy to keep receiving gifts after telling someone to stop. Especially when the gifts themselves become creepier..

Number 7: If she is honest with you, don't throw a tantrum and get all upset

Rejection hurts and sucks yes. If a girl clearly led you on by going on many dates, telling you directly she wants you, loves you etc then it's different but if a girl has been pretty neutral and just friendly but not too friendly, do not go accusing her of leading you on. Accepting to go on a date with you is not leading you on. It is NORMAL to go on dates initially to see if you are into someone or not. If you do want to take this risk, don't ever date. But the entire point of going on a few dates is to see if you gel with someone. You shouldn't be surprised then if she tells maybe that she wasn't feeling it anymore. This is the dating game. Sometimes you'll miss, sometimes you'll hit. But the worst thing you can do is to go calling said girl horrible names, tell her off, tell her she's a bitch etc. You are literally just helping her realize she probably made a good decision to break it off. If anything, you made her life 100x easier cause she will likely feel happy for "dodging a bullet". If you get rejected, tell her OK best of luck and then delete her and just never talk to her again. There is no need for anything else. If she doesn't want you, go find someone who does! Do not waste energy and time on someone who isn't into you.

This is my list for now. Maybe I will make a part 2 someday but for now, this is all I got :)

I hope this helps!

(ALL IMAGES TAKE FROM pixabay.com FREE FOR COMMERCIAL USE)

To Men: Please Don't do These Things if You Want to Attract a Woman
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Most Helpful Girl

  • RJGraveyTrain
    I think you made good points; while persistence can be attractive, it becomes a lot less attractive when you don't want them to be persistent - and you make that CLEAR. That's a point where persistence needs to be brushed aside.

    While I'm also not big on "social media rules" or "don't text back too soon or this many times", I do believe that the points you made are still fair because they fall under a realm of: just be smart enough to not act like a total weirdo. Just because it's social media or text doesn't mean you throw social appropriateness out the window, such as the examples you used with this... gent, of yours.

    Overall I think you made fair points.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Anonymous

      Thank you very much! <3 Much appreciated. Thanks for reading and for your comment. Means a lot!

    • No problemo.

Most Helpful Guy

  • You would think this would be common knowledge but you are right it's not. It happens more then people think. Good advice. Nice take!
    Is this still revelant?
    • Anonymous

      I know right! I really thought this was 2017, people would know these things but I was very, very wrong :P Thanks for the comment!

    • 5 thumbs down from dudes who I guess like to throw tantrums, and send gifts to their work, and enjoy being clingy and needy. LOL... no comments though... kind of figures.

    • Anonymous

      Same old same old! Always the same old folks downvoting on certain things ;)

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What Girls & Guys Said

3083
  • OlderAndWiser
    So, how many dates did you have with this guy before you gave him the pink slip? He does sound like the poster child for "how to chase away a good woman!"
    • Anonymous

      I went on about 4 dates with him! But after the first one I told him I am not too sure we are compatible.. but then he convinced me to give him a chance so I did, and then this happened! :P

    • Next time, you will trust your instincts, won't you?

  • MrOracle
    Damn girl, I hope you didn't wait too long to kick this girly-man to the curb. Just reading this made me feel like I needed to take a shower (and I just showered a couple hours ago).
    • Anonymous

      Hahahaha I told him straight about 5 times that I am not attracted and he just keeps resurfacing time after time... I am contemplating blocking him at this stage.

    • farengo

      haha so true

    • Ravex24

      Giggity!

  • ThisDudeHere
    It's kind of odd how there were several guys on this take who reacted aggressively. Perhaps they themselves are at fault for doing some of these things.

    The issue here was, I think, a clash of attitudes - the guy was too old-fashioned whereas the girl was more modern, because this kind of stuff (save for the social media stalking) used to be the norm. Even more so, persistence tends to work sometimes. As do the flowers.
    • Anonymous

      It could be! But each to their own! :P I don't mind. I'm not "modern" per say. I am quite traditional. I have a career yes and I like romantic men but the problem is when they cannot take no for a answer. Also as I commented somewhere else, if you need a woman to take 5 times to agree to a date to you, then why on earth would you even want to date them :P I don't think any decent healthy woman will need to be prompted 5 times for a date to agree to it. That indicates a serious lack of attraction.

    • Some women wouldn't agree right away out of fear of coming off as desperate, no?

    • Anonymous

      You think a woman feels compelled to be asked 5 times on a date in order to not come off as desperate? oh boy... Maybe a 15 year old would feel that way but a adult woman? Worried about being desperate agreeing to go on a date and having to be asked 5 times?

      Once again, why would you want to date such a woman anyway!

  • nachosaresexy
    Good advice! With #5 it cuts both ways - how many times do you see a girl asking/wondering it's been 14 minutes since I saw him, why hasn't he texted yet? But then some guys apparently take it to the other extreme and blow up a girl's phone and kinda freak out if she doesn't respond. These things really shouldn't be that difficult!
    • Anonymous

      Agreed! It definitely goes both ways :P I mainly just wrote based off my experience tongue in cheek but you're absolutely right. So many girls are guilty of this lmao xD

  • kikisand
    Women don't want men to do these things, and men don't want women to do these things. It goes both ways.
    • Blake0048

      Exactly. This isn't sex specific women can be just as clingy early on and scare us off its happened to me several times.

    • kikisand

      I wonder if we subconsciously do it because deep down we know this isn't the right person. With the right person, people aren't going to do these things listed.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah absolutely <3 I did say this though at the start and I also said I was just basing this off MY experience. I don't date women so I wrote things from my perspective :)

  • Swiss_Tengu
    Oh what eyeopening wisdom this presents the world! These profound commandments should be written into stone... (Sarcasm)
    Seriousely, hasn't anyone compiled a "guide on how to generally not be annoying" yet, that could be taught in school?
    Can't stand all these posts of pubescent people thinking their specific experiences are without precedence, and thier conclusions are universal enlightenment.
    • Look at comments from the ladies. You'll see that it obviously isn't just the writer of this mytake who has had a guy like this in her life. She wrote it to get her frustrations out, and to help clueless guys, not to help perfect intelligent men like yourself (sarcasm).

    • @Cinnamon-Dun What I am loathing is, that this list is full of single perspective bias, as most of such lists are. Conclusions are written like rules that apply to just everyone, although they don't. And most of the points should be obvious to someone with common sense. The people she laments about don't seem to have that, so hope for them is dim. And yes, there are lots of them out there, and everybody meets them. People who need this kind of advise, mostly don't ever come to read it anyways, and even less understand it, so what is the point?

    • @Cinnamon-Dun Judging from her age, appearance and writing, I can savely assume that she is guilty of equally bad crimes on men herself, that she isn't aware of either.

    • Show All
  • greycadillacs
    Insane to think that such needy, clingy guys exist out there. Unfortunately, they do. These should all be taken for granted as behaviors to avoid, and if a guy exhibits them, it's hard to imagine he'll understand what he's doing wrong and change. But one can always hope.
    • Anonymous

      Thanks for reading and for the comment :) Much appreciated :)

  • WhiteSteve
    A lot of these I can simplify under an all-encompassing "act like you've been there before." I mean, you don't want to come off like you had no prospects whatsoever until she gave you a shot. I'm sure you don't want to come off like she's one of many chicks in your rotation either, but don't take it to the other extreme and act like she's the only show in town. I know the dynamic is generally about the guy impressing the girl, I think there's even our natural animal wiring at play there, in that, in the wild, the males try to mate as much as possible and demonstrate their worthiness to a much more choosy female, looking for the strongest genetic material. But in modern society as we know it, I think it's important that BOTH sides recognize themselves as a commodity and need to mutually be impressed with the other. Otherwise you see some sorry ass shit out there with people practically begging for dates, lmao.

    What actually made me answer this was #1 though, taking no for an answer the first time. I honestly blame Hollywood for this one. Like how many movies and TV scenarios have we been force fed where some decidedly average dude goes after some out-of-his-league girl, who blows him off at first... but his persistence finally wins her over and she realizes what a great guy he is, and that he'll treat her better than the attractive jerks she's been dealing with. That's like the non-ladies' man's fantasy. So now you have some fake-ass John Cusak on your lawn with a late-80s boom box trying to serenade you and shit.
    i.huffpost.com/.../o-SAY-ANYTHING-facebook.jpg

    That shit is cute on the big screen, but in reality that's going to get you served with a restraining order, lmao.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48Px4YvWzLA
  • worldscolide
    The same could be said for women in this case. I understand where you are coming from though. On a side note, im married, and my wife still doesn't have my Facebook, Because i don't have one. She has asked me to get one, and i refuse.
    • Anonymous

      Yeah good choice. Facebook is such a waste of time anyway!

  • LittleSally
    All good points.
    All general knowledge, but a lot of people still don't apply them as if they were some sort of myths... not reality.
    • Anonymous

      Thank you for reading <3

  • naraku
    Guys really do this? LOL

    Just go with the flow and let the girl make a choice after a couple of dates.
    I'd get a bit pissed if she ghosts me of course but if at the end of the day if she's not interested who cares?
    Nothing like desperate , needy people.
    • Anonymous

      Yup I was just as shocked :P I agree with you. Thanks for the comment and read :)

  • rjroy3
    If this take is about what not to do if you want to attract a girl. Isn't 1, 2 and 7 irrelevant? They're all post rejection and the first point was DON'T be persistent in that instance lol
    • Anonymous

      They are all general points of things that are annoying and can put someone off. That's it :)

    • rjroy3

      Yes annoying, but still post rejection lol. That's my point. If the dude is rejected either way it really doesn't matter as far as attraction. The girl's not gonna be like, "Oh my god! He's so not needy! I change my mind. I was wrong about him. He's getting a second chance with me!".
      Just seems pointless to say don't do xyz, when the outcome remains the same if the actual point of this is to be advice for attracting women to guys. Like sure. It's better for a guy not to do these things, but not because it'll help as far as attraction. It's just better for his soul not to be the guy that does those things. It's not about the girl.

    • Anonymous

      I think you may have misunderstood me. This guy did these things and it put me OFF. I was quite positive about him, but then this behavior started very soon which affected my image of him so it wasn't exactly "post rejection"> He still had a fair chance.

    • Show All
  • ATuairiscean
    Are you sure you are not a guy (LoL) - Only I saw pink heading and name, I would swear a guy wrote it - That said sensible list applies to both genders
    • Anonymous

      Thank you :P Yes it does apply to both genders. No I'm pretty sure I'm not good a guy hehe ;)

  • deraz24
    I agree with all of this a lot of times things can't be rushed
    • Anonymous

      Thank you for reading <3

  • AleDeEurope
    Despite how common sense all this is, it's amazing how many guys still do it :/

    Don't shoot yourself in the foot, guys. Think.

    Nice Take
    • Anonymous

      Thank you very much for the compliment ! <3 Much appreciated!

  • CheerGirl38139
    Sounds legit, but I would still fuck Cary Grant.

    memecrunch.com/meme/3U7WU/hubba-hubba/image.jpg
    • I'm not even gay and even I have a crush on Cary Grant.

  • Browneye57
    Now do one on what you bring to a relationship that would be deemed high-value. Why are you a 'catch'? [shrug]

    • Anonymous

      Writing a MyTake saying what a "catch" I am will surely be very very strange.

    • Browneye57

      And a very good exercise for you. I find most are clueless, that they think they simply need to show up. :)
      A high-value guy will expect it.

  • RolandCuthbert
    8. And also, if you want to be successful with women, don't take any advice from a woman.
    • Anonymous

      Right, because the man who did these things are now single and chases away all the women he encounters? Riiiight

    • Nope, I don't have a problem attracting women or keeping them. But I don't listen to women, when it comes to advice about dating. Most have no idea of what they want or are attracted to. The best advice givers are men who are good at dating women. They know what works and what doesn't. Most women who lay out all these rules, end up being attracted to guys who do not fit any of their criteria.

      But if I ever become gay and need help attracting men, I will look you up.

  • John_Doesnt
    This is so wrong. I do all these things and I have a girlfriend right now.
    • Anonymous

      Hehehe good for you! Wish this guy could say the same who did all these things :P

  • Deep-Sea
    Don't think guys are the only offenders that do these things. Plenty of females have done similar things to people I know.

    You should have made this guide unisex.
    • Anonymous

      I addressed this very point in the MyTake :) I based everything off MY experience with A guy. I even said it can be used vica versa :)

  • Phoenix98
    Except that the vast majority of men don't do any of those things lol.
    • Anonymous

      You'd be surprised! Thanks for reading :)

    • Phoenix98

      Possibly but I know quite a few men of all ages and have yet to really meet any like this.

  • Skadouchebag
    about #1: you really can't blame men for this when other women deliberately play hard to catch. ask the site if you don't believe me.
    • Anonymous

      You're right, SOME women do play games, just like some men play games. It's best to avoid such people. If a woman plays games like that, she is not worthwhile and not a catch. Avoid them like the plague! :P

    • I'd actually have to agree.

  • Belgie
    Wow I remember being that insecure and over eager in my early 20s... I had people tell me it was wrong but it was very hard to over ride my instincts and so I tried WAY too hard.

    I only lost two or three girls before I learned my lessons. .
    • Anonymous

      Well at least you did! Good for you :P Thanks for reading and for the comment :)

  • cth96190
    Sounds fair.
    A simple rule is that at the first sign of lack of interest the male should walk away.
    To do anything else risks an allegation of sexual harassment, even though the truth is usually that the male is simply socially inept.
  • TheOtakuMaid
  • metalsucks2
    Welcome to GirlsAskGuys where men get vilified and generalised.

    • Anonymous

      Where did I say in my MyTake that all men do this or act like this? This was general tips, take it or leave it :)

    • Now imagine the outrage if some guy posted a my take "To Men please don't do these things..."?

    • *Women*

    • Show All
  • Vasco423
    Knowing your opinion about sending gifts after the second date I would get some huge rose boquet with a card saying "obnoxiously big flowers" delivered at your work place would you still complain? X)
  • HikerDude
    This doesn't make you sound like much of a catch. Too many "rules" to be happy.
    • Anonymous

      It's called common sense hehe.

    • HikerDude

      Yeah, some of it is, but that begs the question why you feel the need to write it down and post it like a 1st grade teacher tacking a list of rules to the bulletin board. You clearly don't think very highly of men on the whole. That's just as bad as guys who claim that all women are whores and gold diggers.

    • Anonymous

      I enjoy writing and just wrote a MyTake for leisure and it got really good feedback :) There was no other ulterior super secretive motive other than having fun :) No need to take life so seriously!

    • Show All
  • frozenhorizon
    I get that guys do this shit but this is not helpful at all. It's only helpful to make people who are completely socially dysfunctional slightly better, but it's still a "what not to do", it doesn't help you be attractive to women.
    • It sounds like you go on dates with really shitty guys by the way.

    • There was no way to know this guy was like that other than to go on a date with him and find out.

    • @ThisDudeHere Really? I think you can probably tell by their overall maturity level before the date

    • Show All
  • Dme500
    Guess whose getting followed. (< only a good thing on gag).

    That was some pretty sound advice and i gotta admit im guilty of the texting one. I've gotten better though and it has resulted in much more responses.
    • Anonymous

      Don't worry I was also like that! At least we have gotten wiser :P Thanks for reading and for the comment:) Much apprecited

    • Dme500

      Anytime. You keep posting good shit and ill be here to read it.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks man ;) Will try my best to impress ;)

  • Answerdude
    Those seem like some pretty easy, common sense guidelines. But nowadays "common sense" isn't so common.
    • Anonymous

      Yup so true! Thanks for reading and commenting :)

  • smartman12
    I've done a lot of the things on this last and due to how women have responded i stopped approaching women. Todays women only care about looks and money. If ur average and not an a-hole, you can't get an attractive girl. This is the truth. Im now 31 and have never had a girlfriend beyond 6 months. I have hardly any confidence due to not having consistent success with women and haven't kept jobs either. As a result, im lonely, frustrated, depressed a lot, and desperate for an attractive girl. Help I've sough out hasn't helped me. I spent the other day crying due to not knowing how to fix this.
    • Anonymous

      "Todays women only care about looks and money. "
      If that is your mentality then unfortunately this is likely why you are still single and will not be successful. Making assumptions and thinking you have a entire gender figured out, is probably what is scaring women away

    • smartman12

      Im tired of dealing with my problems. I just want to be someone else who doesn't have my issues, has an attractive girlfriend, and is able to keep a job.

  • razor97
    I'm going to tell everybody you tried to make a move on me...
    • Anonymous

      I dare you :P

    • razor97

      I could save your script and rewrite you, but you would never be active on my code.

    • Anonymous

      :D :D :D :D :D :D

    • Show All
  • levantine99
    just say "dotn date me" and you are clear. everyone is saved from drama and headache.
  • Thatoneguy5526
    What if I sent two texts to someone, but the second text was just me correcting a mistake from the first text?
    • Anonymous

      That's totally fine :)

  • HeatNation1
    and here we have another group of sheepish men who will be a slave to what women say. women own men and its so disgusting.
    • Blake0048

      Yes it is

    • To be fair apply all that she said with you in the equation with a chick that nags and stocks the living delights out of you. How would you react?

  • RedThread
    This guy sounds like he was really insecure and clingy. I can't really deal with that type of behavior either.

    We all need space to breathe!
    • Anonymous

      Thanks for reading :)

    • RedThread

      You're welcome โ˜บ๏ธ

  • emerald77
    The first one is the most important one in my opinion.
  • Gsxrj
    Wow i need to avoid you and people like you. I've dated girls who were more open and way less uptight as you. Just go with the flow. Let the guy like you.
    • Anonymous

      You may think I am uptight it's OK. If not wanting a clingy partner makes you uptight then I guess majority of human beings are uptight and you are just the special snowflake :)

  • RealDarkeyes
    I mean ill always hold the door for a girl but im not sending $40+ flowers just because i ate with you twice
    by the way thanks for the advise
  • backtoblackkkk
    Awesome take. Some guys don't realize "no" means "no" and clinginess is a major turn-off.
  • name_is_christian
    These are a known fact. But I don't get #4, it seems to combine with 3 and a bit of 5 to me.
  • knight_55
    Great myTake but I feel these things are something which the guys already know, only really foolish/immature ones don't know.
    • Anonymous

      I thought so too but apparently not :) Thanks for the comment and read :)

    • knight_55

      ๐Ÿ™‚๐Ÿ‘

  • DonCachondo
    Dating: when you have to channel all your effort into channeling EXACTLY the right amount of effort XD
  • JustBoredGirl
    I really loved this!
    • Anonymous

      Awww thank you <3 Much appreciated! <3

  • fulloflife
    I actually like these things:
    After your first date, don't start spamming her Facebook feed like you two are besties
    -it's cute how he is so obsessed with me
    -shows his interest

    Don't send gifts to her workplace after 2 dates
    -Please give me flowers, it shows me that he cares
    -I love gifts

    Do not be persistent. "If I say no, I say no"
    ***This is a grey area.
    -I like the little play fights "no. Yes! No. Yessss"
    -I like being chased around a bit
    However, if I really am not interested and you keep persisting I will become annoyed
  • Anon-ymous1
    Most of these are pretty good and relevant. Surprised that one person did all of these. Wow.
  • thelastvalkyrie
    This just shows how self entitled to women some men can be.
  • heeeygurlheeey
    I hate it when guys are arrogant, and seem more into themselves than the person they're with.
    • Anonymous

      Yup instant turn off! Thanks for the comment :)

  • Tasos96
    Never done any of these things.
    .
    .
    .
    Yet still have never had a girlfriend 😂
    • Robertinho

      Same here bro, if it makes you feel better at least your 20... i freaken 32!!! If there is one thing i've learned... is that things are not what they seem to be.

    • Anonymous

      Awh man I'm sorry! But you know, you're 20! I know many people including myself who didn't have a boyfriend or girlfriend that age either. Just keep things chill and enjoy your own company for a while. Much less drama :P

    • Anonymous

      @Robertinho I know some really amazing catches who are int their 30's. Pity I cannot introduce them to you as I am from South Africa :(

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