Why do people think having more female superheroes in marvel is pandering?

Question

Because all I’m hearing is MSHEU bull and think how many male super heroes have been introduced and have solo movies since phase 1 compared to women?

Men

- Iron Man 1/2/3, Captain America 1/2/3, Thor 1/2/3/4, Hulk, Antman 1/2/3, Moonknight, Black Panther 1, Loki, Spiderman 1/2/3, Dr Strange 1/2, Shang Chi

(23)

Women

- Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Ms Marvel, Wandavision, Hawkeye, She Hulk

(6)

by the way all solo women movies/shows are 2019 onwards. Men have been dominating the lead movies since 2008.

But suddenly we finally get some actual female solo media and it’s an agenda against men. Fk me I’m sick of this crap.

Male is the default in society so men see it as their right to be the norm so when a woman gets her time to shine it’s pandering.

We make up 50% of the population like wtf.

Sorry for the rant I’m just sick of the marvel community sometimes. I love the comics and movies so much and it just hurts when I’m constantly seeing people say women are ruining marvel. Like Fk me it hurts :(. Women like having superheroes they can relate too as well. Let us have a bone.

BoopBoopBeep · Accepted Answer

It's not the introduction of the women, per se, it's that they think that all they have to do is introduce a woman. F the plot, F the continuity (Uhm... eternals, antman 3?). We make a "strong woman" (who isn't... she has no depth and is written like a millionaire in Beverly Hills would write about a poor black kid in Tanzania without ever actually talking to a Tanzanian, or even a black person), and BECAUSE we have a "strong woman" this is automatic cinema gold.

Pre-Endgame, the character arcs overlapped and the cameos weren't just tacked on, they were essential. Captain America: Civil War could have just as easily been titled Avengers: Civil War, because for the most part it was Avengers 1-15 and a couple extra like the first GotG. Now there's very little universe building, the stories are forced together last minute. It reads and plays like a DC movie, and we all know how much weaker those are.

All the ACTUAL strong women I know, like, the ones from combat I served with, they hate the MSHEU because of the pandering. Not to say it wasn't in the earlier movies from time to time (the all-girls "save the day" shot in endgame made every woman I know retch, one actually wanted to walk out), but it was a temporary head bump in an otherwise solid film (that HAD strong females like Scarlet Witch and Black Widow). Oh Gwenneth Paltrow is here in her Iron Protector Armor... yay... day's a win.

The movies have become the next iteration of the tv series. Crank out as much as you can and check the demographic boxes, do it cheaply (obviously CGI isn't a high expense), because a shotgun approach has marketing value. There's no building to a final arc that anyone cares about like Thanos from Avengers 1. The Infinity Saga was a rising tide the lifted all boats, and each iteration felt like it was building to something with a few exceptions which later proved to be tied in through ways we hadn't considered yet. Sooner or later there would be character devlopment or post-credit scene which would drive home the next link in a chain that got stronger and stronger along the way. Vis-a-vis with the disjointed nature of, well, nearly everything since Endgame.

The next Big Bad should have been immediately established and shown to be worthy of the Thanos mantle, meanwhile we we got a meandering meaninglessness (say it 5x fast) that chopped about in the waves like a ship with no rudder, or engine, and a giant CGI hole in the side. Fans could have skipped phase 4 and missed nothing but a 50 hour collection of Easter eggs that looked like the deleted scenes which werent fully fleshed out. Was it longer than 50? God it felt longer.

The went from visionary directors like Joss Wheaton, John Favreau, James Gunn, the freaking Russo brothers get replaced with Kate Shortlan, (who has done all of three movies, all of which were low budget, and while personally I liked Berlin Syndrome, it's not "Marvel Big"), Chloe Zhao, of Nomadland, an existential character driven (at best) piece which largely takes place out of the back of her truck and give her a big budget effects heavy intertwining action saga with an ensemble cast that would fill a party bus

MCU has become the Atari 5200. That wrecked an entire industry until the NES revitalized it. Here's to hoping the next phase can do the same.

Sixgunsound · Accepted Answer

I think it would be different if it wasn't so obviously pandering to cover an oversight. Nobody was or is upset about wonder woman in the 1970's, but she hulk is essentially gender swapping to pander to the 'outrage of the day'. She spends most of her time whining about how hard it is to be a wealthy white graduate school educated woman in the western world, which is disingenuous and false compared to almost the entire rest of the world's female lived experience. Box office failures only serve to reinforce the comic buying public's general distate for the characters, but instead of dropping it the producers double down and hurl insults at their customer base. When Disney race-swapped Ariel there was public outcry, noticeably absent from the creation of Mulan or Princess Jasmine or the movie Encanto. It is the disingenuous nature of the pandering for woke points that people instinctively resist, not the creation of non-white or non-male characters.

msmissydc · Accepted Answer

First yes I agree!!!

Please dont take the next part as a counter argument, just a bit of my opinion. I just am not in full accord of your way to count these movies.

I am not counting group movies here just max coop movies or the Netflix shows.

Men Solo movies/ TV shows (17):

Iron Man
Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America 1
Iron Man 3
Thor 2
Antman
Doctor Strange
Spiderman
Thor 3
Black Panther
Spiderman
Shang Chi
Spiderman2
Falcon and winter soldier
Moon Knight

Women Solo movies/Tv shows (6):

Black Widow
Wakanda Forever (although arguments to be made this being a mixxed movie because of Namor)
Agent Carter
WandaVision (I put it here because it was much more about Wanda than Vision in my opinion)
Miss Marvel
She-hulk (Could argue for this being mixxed)

Mixxed Movies (8):

Captain America 2 (Black widow was huge in that movie)
Antman & the wasp
Captain Marvel (I would put it here at is was as much about Nick Fury as about Carol Danvers)
Doctor Strange 2 ( I put it here because wanda as well as America Chaves had huge roles, I didn't count antagonists before, but wanda in this movie is special, also Chavez is protected a lot and only introduced as a "hero" later in the movie in my opinon)
Thor love and thunder (it was a huge part about Jane Fosters Thor but I can see it on the men list.)
Antman Quantumania
Loki (femloki was like the second main character in my opinion)
Hawkeye

And again I agree with your opinion and I did the counting different than you your list is not wrong, just a different focus.

That being said there are much more male heros. Xmen can change that a bit because a lot of well known Xmen (yes funnny) are women.

Also I do like a lot of the male heros better to be honest. Yes wanda is high on my list but still not top.

jennifer_bloom · Accepted Answer

The thing with female super heroes is they are always emphasizing their sexual traits and if you want real female representation you have to show social traits and not just physical traits.

For example, a woman who can shape shift could represent a female personality trait because woman are better at hiding their motives from enemy forces. Or a woman who can create headaches since woman know how to influence emotional conditions in humans better then men do.

Anonymous · Answer

I don't know if any data exists for the origin, it probably doesn't but I did come across this data: https://www.themarysue.com/comic-book-demographic/ showing that the overwhelming majority of comic book readers are not just men but single men.

I strongly suspect that back in the 1960s probably something close to 100% of the readers were men and again perhaps even single men.

Clearly this franchise from the beginning is a male space, something to retreat into when real life isn't working out for you.

Most of the characters have always been male until very recently. I don't think you understand what the word pandering means because changing what you have been doing historically to something which now appeals to society broadly is literally the definition of pandering.

Now I understand your viewpoint, things have moved on and for quite some time now a lot of women have been fans and supporters of the franchise so I can see why you feel like you are owed something but it should not be difficult to understand why the viewpoint you are angry about exists.

You have essentially walked into a mens only club and started demanding that they install womens toilets, start serving cocktails and put on a disco at least twice a week.

Rockstarrrrr · Answer

Yeah it all started with that cringe scene in endgame and now marvel movies are basically girl boss galore lol... Doctor strange is an incompetent dork, women save the day... Shang chi is an incompetent dork, women save the day... Thor is an incompetent dork, women save the day... Antman is not a total loser , but also get saved by women at the end... And it's not just with marvel movies... That's the current trend in the movie industry alongside with identity politics and representation and DIVERSITY... That's why the latest John Wick movie got super hyped and praised even though it's a terrible movie... it's because the male characters weren't castrated lmao xD

Quackthulu2 · Answer

Unless I missed something im pretty sure Hawkeye is a dude… but not complaining. I’ll take him on the team.

But yeah, that’s a thing, as soon as you try having a single female character in the “boys club” the mouth breathers come out and complain. I have gotten the same thing in the DnD community.

TooHot2Care · Answer

So look. . . . . I'm not a comic fan but y'all seem to REALLY be getting the short end of the stick when it comes to heroes. . . .

Like. . . What is your characters thing that doesn't involve girlbossing/ being a macho man with a vagina your way out of a solution. . ?

Captain Marvel's whole thing was she's an anime character who gets over her amnesia and girlbosses her way out.

Shuri. Was. AMAZING.

She is the black panther and the true heir to T'challa.

But everyone else is so. . . . . Ugh. . . Alright, I guess. . . . ?

I mean if you want more heroines, cool but. . . . Like most of ya'lls heroes suck.

Berethor · Answer

Women are 50% of population but minority on the battlefield, female characters with super strength tend to look less realistic, Wanda is using magic so it's make more sense. :)

exitseven · Answer

It is not having women as superheroes that is ruining the franchise. The Black Widow was a very interesting character and her story was very well developed. Pushing a character into the MCU just because it is a woman or if it is black or Hispanic is just Disney showing it's influence. This is what people object to.

DextroShade · Answer

Women are physically weaker than men so having females like 100 lbs Black Widow beating up multiple 200 lbs men is just absurd to the point we can't suspend our disbelief so it ruins the movie. Also, the super-powered female heros never have struggle the way the men do so they it's harder to root for them.

Friendlybro79 · Answer

I totally hear what you're saying. F marvel and have real heros to look up to. Not a fictional one. There are many women you can look up to in real life that are worth more of your feelings than on what idiots say about the MCU. You're 31 years old. You don't need to let this have power over your emotions. Men unfortunately still control a lot but things are getting better and will continue to get better.

Anonymous · Answer

Because pandering is exactly what it is. They are doing it to appease feminist types and wokesters.

It will always come off as pathetic seeing a female character kicking men's asses on screen. It's like showing 8 year old children kicking adult men's asses. It just comes off as pathetic.

Guanfei · Answer

Because it is. They don't have more females because it's interesting, but only to have more females. Often by replacing a male superhero, or openly showing the girls are better.
Not only that, but since the goal is only to have more of them, most of the time it's done very poorly, with terrible writing.

Xtendable · Answer

I agree and I’m actually looking forward to the Marvels

inhua · Answer

it's not about the numbers of female superheroes. it's about their unrealistic/shitty portrayals and personalities

Gent207-2 · Answer

The only problem I see with a lot of movies nowadays especially with Disney is the lack of originality. This hand-me-down routine is getting old fast

Astarlessnightsky · Answer

I think the problem with the new female superheroes is, they aren't new, but only a female version of an already existing male superhero, which is rather boring.

Mrgoodstuff62 · Answer

It’s all good to have woman as lead roles, but when we throw woman in there just to make it equal it just ends up ruining the whole movie. It’s usually a bad actress too. We need to stop forcing roles. There are some bomb as movies with female roles, but there are also really shitty movies that had forced female leads.

Nik1hil · Answer

MCU fans are NERDS AND GEEKS, if they see female superheroes, they will be more interested in Women & Dating, instead of Comics and movies.

More Female Superheroes is like killing your good existing customer base..

AydenHazor · Answer

It's a load of patriarchal bs. To top it off, most of the solo female movies/shows are some of the best that Marvel has put out

Googlemyahoo · Answer

What like having Gwyneth Paltrow show up in the final battle of End Game and get more screen time then Dr Strange who performed landscaping the entire fight.  Nah no pandering to see there. 😑

AmeerX · Answer

And that's why I like Japanese Anime. They are less about one man or woman shows and Women love the Protagonist.

The plot is much better.

Have you watched LOGT. It's an anime and yet much better 😁 than shows of today

normalice · Answer

They don't. They just want people to be mad at women.

Why do people think having more female superheroes in marvel is pandering?

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