Why won't she tell me about her interests or plans for the summer?

[Anonymous]

we talk a fair bit at the place where she works and seem to get along fairly well in my opinion which is why i'm increasingly confused by her behaviour and refuseall to answer basic questions about almost nothing

like she'll ask me very specific questions about my career or what bars i'm going to on certain nights. but then if i ask what her interests are ( outside of the bar scene ) type things she won't say anything and when i asked what her plans were for the remainder of summer she claimed nothing despite the fact she's going to a wedding and then she seemed surprised i even remembered that despite the fact she mentions it all the time

we do talk a fair bit there and seem to get along so confused , she didn't seem to have an issue with me talking to her there unless it was when she was busy with work or something

[Anonymous]

You’re probably going to disagree and resist my opinion, but honestly it sounds like I woman doing her job. I don’t know what her job is (I’m guessing maybe bartender based on that line you said about the bar scene), but if you’re a regular there and in a position to just sit and chat with her then she’s probably cool with you and doesn’t mind hearing more about your life. But often times women in that profession don’t share too much about their personal lives just to keep it separate. I’m sure she’s shared certain aspects but what she’s comfortable with.

[Asker]

yes she is a server , i've been there a lot over the years since she started to work there a few years ago. she's shared aspects of her life with other people sometimes guys she didn't even know but when i ask things it doesn't seem to lead to much

but they ask things about me , her girlfriend asked what vehicle i drove as she though i had a jeep but had stopped using it in 2021 not sure how she knew about it but she did. i've never asked what type of car she drove or her girlfriend's had either

[Asker]

why would she hide her interests outside of the bar? i asked if she went to the gym here and she said no despite the fact i had seen some of her girlfriend's there she said she's never been there

she claimed to almost have no interests which makes no sense , i know she used to be into dance years ago but stopped as most girls do when they get older. she doesn't have any kids and said there was a dog at the place she lived but didn't say if she walked it or did anything with it

[Opinion Owner]

Well see, your perspective is different because you’ve gained feelings for her, so you want to get to know her more, you’d like her to open up, share her world etc, and the things she doesn’t tell you, you’ve tried to find on your own (not saying that to make you feel like a creep or anything, we are all guilty of wanting to know more about our crushes). But her perspective with you is either more professional, or she gets the idea that you’re into her and doesn’t want to feed into that. I’m sure you don’t think that you’ve done anything to specifically note your feelings or interest, but she is familiar with men and their traits. I’m sure she’s had her share of guys she’s dated, and a regular cycle of guys passing through her workplace (be it regulars or casuals), who have taken interest in her. So it’s not hard to tell when a guy is interested, especially in your case — a regular coming in specifically to sit and chat with her over the years. Surely she values your presence and company to an extent, but not in the way you value hers.

[Asker]

i agree that she see's things from a different perspective and has had other guys try and talk to her there over the years. and may be things she feels she's rather keep private or only for select people

she's asked me to do drinks with her before , she was into doing shots , this happened a couple times last year , once on her birthday and around Christmas. my impression was she was interested in at least being friends at the pub

not sure why it matter if i knew what her interests were? it seems like she's trying to avoid me outside the pub despite the fact we get along well there

[Opinion Owner]

I feel bad not giving you a more optimistic view but lying isn’t helpful, so I would have to agree that she’s not trying to hang out with you outside the pub. At least not one on one. Her invited last year made sense, as I’m sure there would’ve been other people and stuff. Anyway, all we can do here is speculate, but unless you want to ask her about this directly I would say to just read the room. Sure her actions can be confusing, but on a surface level they show disinterest in friendship or whatever else outside the bar, and you’re better off accepting that. I know it’s a sucky feeling, especially since you like her and if you’ve frequented that bad specifically for her, the last thing you want to hear is that there’s no chance. But you also don’t want to pour more time into pining over this woman. It could simply be a thing to where she’s not looking for more friendships to maintain, and that’s ok too. Anyway, There’s so many other women out there, maybe you should reset your sights.

[Asker]

i've had the same thoughs too that there might be no path to get what i wanted out of this girl/situation. which is sort of a sucky feeling to have
although it doesn't make a lot of sense as she seemed to like me so for her to try to limit our interactions to this one pub doesn't really make a lot of sense as i felt that i had more to offer and there was other things to do here.

but since we haven't really had a heart to heart conversation about this , is a lot of wondering and speculation about her true intentions. it just leaves me so confused why spend so much time with me there if she had no intention of ever doing anything outside of it or did something about her life change that i'm not entirely aware of

[Opinion Owner]

I’m not sure if you’d feel comfortable to do it but since you haven’t before, it wouldn’t hurt asking to have a one on one conversation when she’s off the clock, just so you can gain some clarity. Like I said, I hate to not be optimistic, but I understand her lifestyle quite well. In my earlier 20s my ex-best friends dad owned one of the most popular dive bars in our city. Usually weekend nights and maybe taco Tuesday nights were insanely busy, but outside of that it was pretty slow. She worked there for 7 years and had regulars from the very start. A few were like you, and one was a little more intense to where security waited for her to get off the clock, make sure he was gone and then walked her to her car. But she carried on very kindly with all of them. We’d talk about their life stories (not in a rude way, just gossip) and they’d tip her really good, she’d spend a lot of time chatting with them but it’s because she knew them better than others coming in. The point of telling you this isn’t to make you feel bad. But I understand her position, and I just feel like she is how she is with you because she knows you and knows you’ll be back, but isn’t interested in forming a bond outside of work.

[Opinion Owner]

Even the fact that she limits what she says and your interactions says a lot about her stance, so anything that you’re assuming to be more may just be you misinterpreting her kindness and attention, because you’re the one having gained feelings. But if she were interested, you can bet she you’d have her number and hang out outside of work. My friend (same one) actually met her current husband at the bar. She had men that she liked and spoke to outside of work and went on dates, but he’s the one that won her specifically. It was just different from regulars vs who she actually was into.

[Asker]

i talk to other girls who work at this same place , so i understand what your saying , they gain a certain amount of familarity with regular customers that come in. so they are used to seeing me there and don't mind talking to me. but were not necessary close friends in real life despite the fact we get along and talk there

i would agree it might be helpful to talk to her in person when she wasn't working or at least not busy to try and gain some understanding of whats going on here. if she was willing to do that , but she won't even tell me her interests so getting her to open up about her true feelings might be a challenge. i haven't really felt that optimistic about things with this girl for a couple weeks but we've still talked there and she seemed jealous when she saw me talk to another girl so i don't know

[Opinion Owner]

The more you tell me, the more I get a bit conflicted about even having said a talk may be helpful. For me, I’m big on communication, so naturally my immediate advice would be clearing the air. But at the same time, her actions are saying a lot, and not to make it weird, but you just seem like the regular at the bar who’s trying to engage, get her to open up, form a deeper friendship, etc when it’s not what she’s interested in doing. I know you’ve known her a long time, and you’re familiar with other women at the bar. I get that whole dynamic, and I’m sure you’re a nice guy, chill to talk to. But some bartenders set boundaries without being rude or putting you out, which genuinely makes me feel like she’s doing this with you. As you said, it’s been years of knowing her. In this time, if she were comfortable or willing, you’d have her social media’s and know more about her, even simple things. But she’s not sharing that for a reason, and at some point you have to step back from the analyzing of her actions, and look at what you actually have. If she had feelings, even jealous ones, surely she’d be acting on her attraction to you. But she isn’t. It just seems like your feelings for her have sort of gotten in the way of reading the social cues. I’m sorry, my intention isn’t to discourage you but I just want to give the best perspective I can, and this is what it looks like.

[Opinion Owner]

I also feel like she may come into play, unfortunately. I don't know how old she is but if you’re an older dude, that could be a factor as well.

[Opinion Owner]

**age may come into play

[Asker]

well my impression was that she wanted to get to know me as we had talked a few times when she wasn't working earlier this year and she had asked me to do drinks with her. which is less common for the girl to ask a guy than it is for guys to ask girls.

age may be a factor as she is younger than me although not sure that entirely explains her actions towards me

i have seen some of her social media before , she had posted a lot of stuff on tiktok but for some reasons its all gone. i have seen her instagram before but its private so can't view it as i don't have an account on that site anymore. she mentioned using facebook marketplace but can't recall ever seeing her facebook page. most of the photo's posted were of her on vacation , with girlfriend's , a dog , wasn't really anything out of the ordinary there

i'm also not sure what would come out of talking to her about this , she may also be unwilling to discuss anything private. i've generally felt that we got along when we did talk there and that she didn't have an issue with my presence.

[Opinion Owner]

I doubt you’d want to hear this at all, but if she’s asking you to have drinks while jobless, then she most likely did it because she knows you’ll pay. If it were for any other reason then you would know, and there wouldn’t be this dynamic now where the only way to try and learn things about her is snoop her social media’s. I totally get that you had a certain impression, but that’s what these girls do — it’s their job to keep patrons, to chat and set a good vibe, and it feels clear that she sees you as part of her work life, not her private life. Otherwise you’d be incorporated in it in some way, like telling you small plans or inviting you for drinks now that she can afford the outing. It sounds really messed up, but it’s a tale as old as time. Anyway, maybe you’d be better served not visiting too much, having drinks at home or finding another place to chill. If she asks about you then I’m not saying she doesn’t care about your well-being, but if you pay well then she’s lost a customer who helps her break even. I’d like to say there’s more substance to your relationship and surely you’d hope for that as well, but I’m not one to form opinions off impressions and assumptions. The realistic thing to do is work with what you have, and what you have is a woman who keeps her relationship with you professional.

[Asker]

i've paid for some of our drinks but didn't pay for the ones when she asked me to do a drink with her , so been mixed.
always checked different girls social media , never felt that a big deal , as mentioned wasn't really anything surprising there anyways.
her and her girlfriend's there , its sort of a mixed dynamic , true they work there but they also go there when not working. i agree they treated me a certain way cause i was a regular and they had seen me there a lot. so we formed a connection there which i perhaps though was more real than it really was? it was still real at the bar but perhaps less real when we stepped outside of it?

i don't know extremely frustrated with this person , perhaps cause i like her on a personal level despite not really liking the current nature of things between us , so its harder to let go

[Opinion Owner]

Remember, you can’t lose what isn’t yours. Letting go doesn’t mean terminating the friendship, but giving yourself some space to adjust your perspective, see things for what they are, and have that simple bar-only dynamic with her that won’t make you feel so slighted. Maybe you’ve gained somewhat of an infatuation with her, and I wouldn’t blame you, people with infectious, fun personalities and the looks to match that greatness are a breath of fresh air to be around. I’m sure going there breaks up the humdrum of your day to day, because she’s so nice, attentive, and personable. The other girls surely have some of those qualities too, it’s expected in your 20s, even early 30s for some. Still, you have to separate her work presence from the person she is off the clock, and it just doesn’t seem like she’s trying to incorporate you into that personal life. Some space would help you see this, maybe even having some dates or other women to invest time in.

[Asker]

i agree there needs to be a different perspective on this girl , which for me is tough as i've known her through that place for so long. that its hard to look at her from a different angle. i don't think her or her girlfriend's there want to terminate the " bar friendship " they might not want to date me but whatever we have at the bar doesn't seem to be an issue.
i do talk to other girls , have talked to girls at other bars this summer , nothing has really been serious in nature , couple i bought drinks for which usually leads nowhere but still fun

its tough cause i didn't really set manageable expectations , so its hard to come down to something which i can live with when i was clearly expecting something else this summer from her

[Opinion Owner]

I do get where you’re coming from, and it’s a major reason why I chose not to work with my friend and bartend when I had the opportunity to get trained. There’s real people behind these interactions bartenders have, and while they perceive the attention and time they give as innocent just because it’s friendly, that man on the receiving end is getting real feelings, which I guess is hard to avoid in some ways. I’m sure it would be tough to create some space between you and her, mostly because she hasn’t necessarily done anything wrong besides disappoint you and I’m sure you don’t want to feel like you’ve hurt her feelings. But it would be good for you. Healthier, really, if it weren’t too regular of a thing.

[Asker]

thats what some people don't understand when i try and talk to them about my interactions with girls at bars , they try and brush it off as well she was a bartender and hot. but fail to realise i actually had real feelings for her and that in my mind it was a real interaction with a real live girl. true in her mind it was something else entirely different but either way it still happened in real life

anyways she wasn't there tonight which was odd , she was at a wedding or something but be back

[Opinion Owner]

You’re 100% correct. On one hand you can’t blame these women because a big part of their job is being social, and when you have people coming in regularly, you’re going to create some sort of familiarity and relationship. But the unfortunate part is that all the attention and time they invest with someone will indeed create feelings. I mean how could you not when you’re regularly having these beautiful young women focusing on you, remember this and that about your life, and just being so chill when outside the bar that doesn’t really happen. It’s a sucky thing. Also, maybe it’s good she wasn’t at the bar, it could be a prompt that it’s better to see less of her.

[Asker]

i haven't talked to her in person yet but did find out today that she was lying to me about her summer plans. there is a large country music festival about an hour away this weekend. i had sort of asked her about it cause i knew she went back in 2019 last time they had it cause of covid but she blew me off and didn't say anything about

today at the place she works i asked some other girls if they were going and they weren't but to my surprise they said she was and had been planning to go for a while with some girls she knew from college who don't live here all from other places but she's still friends with them

think her friend felt kind of bad telling me this as she knew i was upset and surprised i had been lied to about something so odd. why would she care if i knew she was going to this concert? its an hour away and i don't even have a ticket and no plans to go. i'm at a loss really as i though we got along there and her behaviour is just odd , obviously she's told everyone else there she's going so why didn't she want me to know

[Opinion Owner]

As a rational minded individual (you can’t think too much with emotion), she lied to you about her plans because she didn’t want you to know. There’s just no other logical excuse. The fact that you’re upset and put out, on top of just being way too invested in creating some sort of relationship outside of the bar with her, should urge you even more to take some time away from there, or at least go much less. You can’t get back all the time you’ve invested into her, but you can control the narrative going forward. I don’t say any of this to offend you, but I want to be as honest as possible and I just genuinely think all the signs are that she’s trying to keep a professional dynamic with you, but you’ve gotten very comfortable with her and the girls, and don’t want to see it that way. I’m sure they all like you and think you’re cool, but it’s just the extent..

[Asker]

obviously she didn't want me to know she was going , not entirely sure why it matter as i said i don't have a ticket to the concert and there very expensive. and even if i went the odds of seeing her there among 10,000 or more other people seem rather low and obviously i was going to find out after the fact she went as it for sure be mentioned at pub that she went and was why she wasn't there working this week. obviously i'd connect the dots between it being concert weekend and her not being there

if i go there this weekend , she's not going to be there anyways if she's at this concert as it runs from fri> sun ,

i'm not even sure what to say when i see her next , she lied to me about going to country music festival , if she can't even be honest about that , what else has she not be honest about? why would it matter if i knew she was going with her girlfriend's for the weekend. even from the perspective she's trying to keep things professional i can't see why it matter that i knew she went to a concert

[Asker]

to explain further i've never felt like we were in a relationship together , i always felt like there was a connection which i felt was strong enough to justifty getting to know her better in the possibility it could lead to something.

her girlfriend's there seem confused and at a loss over this one too. the one i talked to today seemed really shocked she lied to me about the concert and had no clue i didn't know or that she hadn't told me she was going. i think she genuinely felt bad for me the way her friend treated me

i think the other girls there see things differently , some perhaps are jealous i've spent so much time with the other girl. they don't seem to understand why and perhaps know more about her true intentions than i do , i don't know what she says about me when i'm not around.

i still feel like we have a connection but agree my perspective about things is different than anyone else looking at this situation who may see things much differently

[Opinion Owner]

I feel bad for what’s happening with you, in a genuine way, because it sucks a lot thinking one thing but in reality it’s another. Obviously I am not there to witness these interactions between you two, so I’m not sure how much she’s actually laying on you vs how you’re interpreting her attention. All I can really do is share advice from my experience. Personally I just turned 30, and it’s only been a couple of months that I’ve stepped away from the bar scene for the sake of my relationship, and really just outgrowing it. I live in a small town, there’s literally 4 bars and they’re all dives. The most popular one is the one I started going to at 22, and have gone religiously up until earlier this year. I don’t tell you these things to waste your time, I just want you to understand that I’m not trying to create a connection or yank your chain — I just get it. I lived it. These girls you speak of, I know them. I drank with them, partied with them, had sleep overs and vacations with them, and even as time passes, those girls will always be the same. Once they cycle out and get older, more will replace them. They want fun, attention, money, and to have these things without fault. The girl you connected so strongly with, she’s one of these girls, dude. I by no means want to hurt or offend you, but I just really see the bigger picture and you’ve gotten the wrong impression. The other women at the bar you socialize with, they are not gonna step on each other’s toes or create issues with one another by ratting each other out, because at the end of the day they work with each other, not you, and they don’t want issues with one another. They’re friends outside the bar, and protect one another. I feel certain that your girl told them not to tell you certain things, and they won’t. They’ll act oblivious and avoid confrontation or creating drama for her with a regular. I’m sure you feel there is more cattiness and jealousy in the mix, but they just watch out for each other.

[Asker]

were a small city so is only a couple different bars here and there more busy during the summer.

it was one of her close girlfriend's that told me she was going to the concert so pretty sure she never told them to not tell me about it. but i do agree its likely she has told them to not mention other things about her to me or that there intentionally not trying to get involved so don't say anything about her.

we discussed talking to her for some clarity earlier? not sure when i'd see her next as she's not going to be around this weekend if she at the concert. but i'd still like to talk to her before the summer is over , although not exactly sure what i'd say. yesterday was the first time i've really had doubts as to if i'd want to stay friends with her or not after i found out she had lied to be about her plans for the summer this concert.

[Opinion Owner]

I know we’d talked about having a conversation with her the other day, but I also told you since then that I felt conflicted about you having this clarity talk with her at all. It just gradually seems less and less productive, but I am genuinely feeling like you’ve gotten the wrong impression from her. Remember in my initial statement, I’d said I know you will resist what I have to say? For the most part, that’s what’s happening here. Yes you’ve thrown in some agreement, but your ultimate thought process seems to keep you entangled in that bar and with that woman. Where my reservations come in about this situation is that after all of our exchanges, I get it now. I get those women, I get her, and I feel like having that talk will just make you seem like one of those older dudes at the bar that fell for the young hot bartender because of the positive traits she’s supposed to have in her line of work. Please don’t take that the wrong way, as I said before my intent is sincerely not meant to offend, insult or upset you. I know you are your own person, and ultimately you may just keep with your same routine of going there and engaging, but maybe finding other things to do with your time so you can create some separation and clear your head would help. You said there’s a couple different bars, maybe check out one of those. Or have drinks at home, find a hobby that helps you wind down after the day or whenever you enjoy going. I’m not sure if there’s a woman in your life or not many options, but that sort of company is nice too, especially if you get lonely. Not trying to assume your character, just offering some suggestions.

[Asker]

she hasn't always been the hot bartender , when she intially started working there was only a hostess. i feel like maybe she changed over time and not the same girl i first meet years ago. much more experienced with guys now than i realised and more social having been around the bar scene for a few years.

i do have other hobbies and things that i do , just sort of find them boring after a while. will do things for a bit then eventually decide to go to bar for a drink. had been going to the gym earlier in the year but took a break during the summer

its also tough to have a conversation with someone when your not sure if there being honest with you , our last couple chats have contained untruthful things so unclear if she'd open up and be honest or more half truths and avoidance. its also possible i'd feel i had a good talk with her then find out 2 days later she wasn't be honest again so not sure what i could hope to get out of her at this point

[Opinion Owner]

I think it’s easier to have a conversation when you don’t have expectations. Like when I chat with certain friends, I don’t search for truths in what they say. If my friend from the bar says “I’m not going to the Bruno Mars concert this weekend”, I won’t go the extra mile to wonder if she’s really not going. These are things you search for when you’re interested in someone outside of just friendship, like I would do that bit of digging if I had a crush, dating or in a relationship with someone. Since you’ve said you thought there was more, surely you have some romantic feelings and want to get to know her better. When you find out she’s been untruthful, you feel lied to and put out. However I don’t think these are the right emotions to have. When you take a step back from your crush on her and try looking at things from an outside perspective, if she’s keeping even small things from you, it’s because she doesn’t want you to know. Why else would she not want you to know other than not wanting to connect in the same way you do? A lot of the clarity you want from her is already there, I just don’t think you’re ready to see it, unfortunately.

[Asker]

perhaps thats why my conversations with other girls there seem different , i'm not as emotionally attached to them as her.

its hard to see this from another perspective , she was originally just a girl from my hometown who got a job at the pub downtown. she wasn't always the hot bartender and got this much attention from men. so i see her as being someone i knew from real life who happens to work there not necessary someone i meet there one night drinking.

i'm really not sure what i'll say to her whenever we do eventually re connect this summer , feel like this is partly my fault and partly hers but also the nature of the setting we spent most of our time at this summer. i find the idea of having a conversation with someone i knew uncomfortable when i don't know if there being honest with me or not. so not sure how to limit expectations and worried i'll just get upset by whatever she says or doesn't

[Opinion Owner]

If you insist on having that conversation with her then just be honest. Tell her that you’ve grown to care for her as more than a friend, and over time you’ve gotten the impression that she feels the same way, so it’s disappointing when she won’t share even small truths with you. Some version of this would need to be said, for the sake of being straightforward.

[Asker]

i still haven't talked to her or even seen her yet , not entirely sure where she is. my thoughs are after thinking some more. if this was a purely business encounter , me > buying drinks from some cute bartender i didn't know well i'd obviously just except it for what it is and walk away if something similar had occured

although this situation is more complex as we've known each other longer , we've seen each other when she wasn't working and done drinks together , we live in the same town , know a lot of her close girlfriends and go to the place she works a lot so obviously not realistic to just disappear and say nothing. well its possible i misunderstood what our connection was and that she viewed it much differently than me we've still spent a lot of time together

well i feel that it may be necessary to walk away eventually i'm not sure i'm there yet. she usually only works there during the summer so less likely to see her in the fall anyways when she returns to her other routine

[Opinion Owner]

By creating some space to get over your feelings, I don’t mean you have to stop going completely but limit it. If you did stop going, I’m sure at some point she would wonder about it, but I don’t think it would hold the same weight that for her as it would for you. Simply based off my interpretation of this situation and that’s me viewing it as more of a platonic, friendly at the bar sort of thing. I totally get the whole small town aspect as I’ve noted before I am also in a small town, but still, if I’m going to the bar often and stop seeing a particular person there, I wouldn’t go out of my way to hunt them down but when they pop back up I would just be like ‘hey how’s it going I haven’t seen you in a while’. She’d likely have the same response. But like I said, you don’t have to just drop off the face off the earth, it’s just going less so when you do visit the bar, you can have the same friendly view as she does.

[Asker]

she won't be there this weekend anyways if she's at the concert it runs from fri> sun , pretty sure she won't be there at all

its tough cause in our town there isn't a lot of really social type bars / pubs , is some other restaurants but not the same vibe as the place she works its definity the most busy. and the price of gas its kind of unaffordable to travel to bars far away and i wouldn't know anyone at them

its tough to take a break during summer cause our bar scene is so seasonal by sep 1st its pretty much quiet down almost entirely , were not a college town so nothing going on here , by fall a typical night at pub would be pretty uneventful

[Asker]

i still haven't talked to her yet or even seen her since this question was posted , assumed she'd return back to work but no sign of her there anymore.

but i did learn some more from her girlfriend who was there today , she was talking when i was nearby and said she was back home , and they had plans to play golf or go bowling tonight. as you recall she claimed to have no interests outside of bad so obviously she does do other things. not sure why they'd be uncomfortable with me bowling with them as its a group activity and considered safe with no real expectations like at a club. golf is kind of expensive though

but still haven't seen her , honestly like to get this off my chest and just offer up some sort of semi apology to her well maybe getting something out of her to explain her side of things although i suspect that may be very difficult

[Opinion Owner]

Maybe it would be good to gain your own set of friends outside of the bar, and I’m saying that in a genuinely kind way. There’s so many outlets of meeting people, even picking up a hobby and creating friendships with those you meet.

I know you are acting this way because in a big way you’re hurt, you are confused and you thought there was more to this situation. Like clearly you felt friendly enough with these ladies to do outside activities, like bowling, grabbing drinks, etc. I think you just have to start accepting that you aren’t a part of their circle, and I know that sounds mean to say, I’m not trying to hurt your feels. But you’re just in two different age groups and friendship circles, it’s ok to not be that young any more. As for the girl, I know you want to get what you have to say off your chest but it’s just a bad idea man. It’ll make things awkward and I know you enjoy going to that bar. I still stand by my suggestion of you going there much less, so you can have he space to get over your feelings. You can still visit, but not as much. Focus on your life outside of that bartender and the alcohol scene, and build something you can get excited about. You’ll feel so much better being able to visit that bar and have a friendly chat with her that has no strings, no expectations, and no disappointments. When she lies or doesn’t tell you what she’s doing, you won’t take it so personally and offensive. You wanna get to a place where you don’t even care to know the difference. That is the healthiest thing here.

[Asker]

i wouldn't say bowling has any age limits and a lot of the bowlers here are likely older than me but get what your saying about there friend group. i wouldn't of felt uncomfortable bowling with them the odd time this summer , it would of been a good way to get to know each other outside of that bar.

not planning to say anything intense or inapproiate to her , just that i'm sorry about things , that i felt i had made a genuine attempt to get to know her but that perhaps i'm hard to communicate with and that i wasn't trying to make her feel uncomfortable there. not going to say that i liked her or that i'm hurt or anything like that. just that i feel bad about things and genuinely felt we were friends so confused as you mentioned. we've talked there many times this summer i don't see why she'd be bothered if we talk once more

i think that i need some sense of closure over this girl before the summer is over and she leaves for school , i'd feel a lot better if things ended on a more positive note and didn't end feeling this terrible. i know she won't apologise to me but i still think i could find some peace somehow

[Opinion Owner]

I definitely wasn’t saying that bowling has age limits. What I was saying is simply that you are in two different age groups, and you may not be someone they’d want to hang out with on that personal level outside of the bar. I mean I’m 30 and I couldn’t see myself hanging out with anyone too much younger than me, maybe 25 and up. Im just in such a different place than the early 20-somethings, and you may be is well. My point wasn’t for you to hone in on the age thing anyway, I was just making a point that it could contribute to why she keeps her friendship with you only in the bar, and not outside of it. If you feel the need to talk then go for it I guess, but if you don’t get the chance then honestly let all that guilt and internal torture go. You have t done anything wrong to beat yourself up over, you just got the wrong impression with this woman and it literally is a normal thing that happens. I genuinely feel like your effort to seek closure will make things awkward for her no matter how you slice it, but I can’t control what you do and I wouldn’t try to. So however you have to rationalize that conversation, I do of course hope it works out with a positive outcome.

[Asker]

i've hung out with them at the pub so wouldn't of felt out of place bowling , although not really that interested in bowling it just be something to do.

honestly not sure what closure would look like at this point , just feel that i need something that allows me to at least feel better about this situation. perhaps her and her girlfriend's realise i'm hurt and they don't know what to do so are trying to distance themselves from this. i'm honestly not sure what i'd like or want to hear from her. but i realise from past encounters it may not always be possible , if we lived in a big city it be likely i might never even see her again , its just the fact we live in a small city that we'd see each other again.

i just know that i need something , and it might come out of a conversation with her to allow me to at least feel a bit better and not feel upset over her , its a tough feeling to explain , usually i saw her on a more regular basis this summer , this is the longest span i've not seen her since the winter when she was at school

i'm obviously open to moving on , whatever that would look like. the bar she works at isn't as interesting come fall so usually i find other things to do , don't go there as much. i do talk to other girls but struggling to become romantically into anyone on the same level i was her

[Opinion Owner]

Moving on, at least from my perspective, would be taking a break from that place and turning your attention elsewhere. I think you have a hard time connecting with other women because you cling to the connection you had with the bartender. I can’t blame you for that, since you’ve invested so much time gaining and maintaining your feelings for her. I can tell how serious you are, because from the start when I’ve said you will resist what I have to say, you’ve done that in each response. Despite the areas that you agree, there’s still the parts protecting your feelings for her and hanging on until you get that conversation, that closure, etc. You’re older than me, so I’m sure you’ve been in a relationship or two where you’ve had your heart broken. But from my experience what I’ve learned about closure is that sometimes we don’t always get it. Or once we do, it isn’t satisfactory because it isn’t what we truly want — which is for that person to reciprocate our feelings. Closure sometimes is more of a “why did you hurt me in this or that way” or “why don’t you want me how I want you? I thought we had something”. I know you wouldn’t verbally say either of those phrases, but it’s what you truly want. 9/10 she won’t say something that’ll fix your pain, so you have to do that for yourself and if you’ve been hurt before then you know you are capable. From there, I’d say give dating a shot again. Go into it with your hands open to receive, and not closed because they aren’t truly who you want. The main exception is say is if they ghosted you, but I’m speaking in the tense that I am because you said you’re the one struggling.

[Asker]

i did finally see her again yesterday , at first i didn't realise she was there and talked to another girl who works there. then eventually i tried to talk to her , not sure i got my point across. despite it not being busy and a good time to try and speak to her. she said everything was ok between us but not sure i believe her.
it was weird some guy i've never seen there before asked her about the concert and she talked to him about it when i was rate there but never mentioned anything to me about it. anyways left saying it was good to see her but left really frustrated as i don't feel she's being honest to me about things and for some reason talks different to me than other people who she seems to be more open with. not sure if she's doing it intentionally cause she annoyed with me or to bug me or even aware she's doing it but its weird the way she talks to me vs other people there.

after that i went to another bar and ran into this other girl who works there but sort of a seasonal place only open during the summer so not sure its a long term solution in terms on a place to hang out or meet people. this other girl seemed to know something was bothering me but i didn't feel like speaking to her about that girl.

[Opinion Owner]

Because she doesn’t want to tell you those things dude, I genuinely don’t understand how you keep saying you don’t know why she’s being distant or thinking like she’s mad or upset. You’re the only one with those feelings. You’ve misinterpreted your relationship with her from the start, and not you’re frustrated and hurt that she keeps reinforcing how “just friends” you guys are. She told you everything is fine, so please, stop trying to pull more out of that situation than there is and leave it alone. I was telling you not to say anything, I told you this would happen, you couldn’t help it and now look. I’m not trying to be mean here I’m just saying, you did what you wanted, now let it go and move on bud.

[Asker]

but even if she just see's us as friends , why couldn't we have a normal conversation at the pub as friends? that sort of what we were doing earlier in the summer and no one seemed to have an issue with that

i'm not even sure she wants to be friends. i feel like the best possible scenario is that we get along till the summer ends and perhaps talk just as friends with no expectations a few times before she leaves , at least then i wouldn't feel terrible about the whole thing

i misinterpeted things from the start because she wasn't clear with me what she wanted , what was a guy to assume when a ( single ) girl asks him to do a shot with him , she gave me the impression she wanted to get to know me as she kept interacting with me and we did drinks at various times, although we haven't did a drink together since the end of June , whatever reason she stopped doing that around then. it seemed like something changed but i couldn't figure out what

[Opinion Owner]

Asking someone to take a shot, especially as a bartender is the most generic but friendly thing a person can do. You’re there at the bar alone every time you go, hell I would do the same as her and be kind to you, and I have done that in the past. It’s just fun. You cannot push your presence and friendship on her despite how much you want to be in her world. I’m not sure what she possibly needed to make clear to you, because every single thing you’ve said since we started our conversation has relayed nothing else except she sees you as a regular at the bar. But you caught feelings for her and made those interactions more. There’s just nothing else to be done but accept that she’s said you guys are cool, and stop trying to dig or create a friendship. The summer is basically over, dude. Spend some time away from that bar, because the last thing you want to be is obsessive over her.

[msc545]

She is hiding things that she thinks you won't like.

[Asker]

i know thats what i think , although have seen her instagram before and didn't seem like there was anything to hide but i agree it seems like she is not being 100 % open with me

[Asker]

another possibility , you think she's trying to keep me away from someone she knows? perhaps a girlfriend. might feel hanging out with her would lead to that girlfriend being around too and trying to avoid us having contact?

or perhaps doesn't want me to meet her family? never meet her parents or any of her siblings , she has an older sister but can't picture who she is and can't recall ever meeting her despite living in same area for years

[msc545]

Another guy.

[Asker]

i wondered about that too , something was mentioned about one a couple weeks ago but she said they only dated briefly at some point? ( not sure when exactly ) and only texted the odd time now , i've never seen him and not even sure who he was?

but she doesn't seem to want to talk to me about it and even her girlfriend's won't either , but i wonder too

[Asker]

another possiblity its not a specific guy rather other guys in general that she knows outside of the bar , she doesn't want me seen around her when there around maybe? as to not get them thinking she was with me? or perhaps they don't like me

i don't know all i can really come up with

[msc545]

This woman is lying to you about her activities with other men. Stop giving her the benefit of the doubt and stop making excuses for her, and get RID of her, my friend. She is trouble.

[Asker]

i have a feeling there has been stuff go on with other guys that i'd not be pleased to know about. reputation wise she's not known as a whore , at least no one has ever referred to her as one but i can recall other girls like her who used to like to hook up and date different guys when they were younger and able to play the field easily