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Society doesn't care no.
Of course we men should acknowledge each other better than we do, at the same time too I know, I never been dismissed by a man as much as I have of women. I remember when I was a kid even, my younger sister was always obsessed about being a victim, she threw pity parties for herself constantly and everyone should always feel so sorry for her. She developed a complete victim mentality which is also important we men don't do either just cause we may be less fortunate in some areas. Anyway, what I meant to say the first time I for one as a kid said something to my sisters, my older sister who was almost 30 at the time, she got so furious with me for sharing my feelings, I was 14 ish at the time, but she got so angry with me, not from what I said but I cause I shared something personal, meanwhile my younger sis, nobody said anything to at all, even though she would complain 24/7 even when she was the lucky child, she escaped all the abuse that I didn't when I was younger.
My first experience emotionally with a girl I kept telling her over and over that I love very deeply and that she should be sure that she really want me knowing my flaws an all (she was pursuing me, for months) Cause I have a hard time letting my guard down. So finally I said okay and we talked and seemed like we were gonna become a thing, next day she starts flirting with another man after trying to convince me for months that she was into me and wanted me, she started pursuing him instead. My first actual relationship I found more comfort at the graveyard than I did with her, I would hang out with the dead at night instead, went for walks at night to this nearby cemetery, she never knew or noticed. Anyway.. I could give endless of examples really, but I personally think both genders need to do better by men that way. It's not weak to be compassionate.
I don't care about men's feelings
same here fuck men
@yofuknutz why so mad
Sadly majority doesn't care about their feelings. Yes I understand that the person isn't fine at all. Either men need to fight for themselves which will bring them disgrace and shame at end anyways even if they win or they will just keep quiet. But it's better to fight for yourself rather than fighting with you right? I mean fight with others rather than fighting with yourself. In the end society is just like a test. They will gossip for 2 days and eventually forget your existence. It will take time for society to change it's core thinking because yes if one person is wise then there are more arrogant ones than them. Actually this is something which is becoming a very big issue in today's world. We need to change our mentality because in end we are the society only. Men should start being more open about their feelings and women shouldn't judge them. It will take few generations for sure just like it took few generations for women to get equality but it will be all worth it if we start working on it for now. We don't want our future generations to suffer what the present generation suffers from, do we? Everyone is a human and humans have a heart which hurts a lot when it is criticized for something it can't help. Everyone should be seen as individual not from their gender or on things which they can't choose and are borned with. Nonetheless at least it have started. Minority at least understand the situation. Better than before. It will improve eventually hopefully 😊.
I think it really depends so Iām gonna go for half and half. As for men caring about other men I donāt know but on social media, my guys friends at least are speaking out about their mental health more than most girls I know which is honestly really good to see and more should be doing so (if they feel comfortable)
As for women I think we generally have the biological instinct to help anyone who needs to be helped though obviously some women who are particularly activated or hurt by other men in the past shall we say tend to be quite harsh and say eg. Men donāt have it as hard, why should they have any issues. Or whatever argument those certain people have causing them to not want to hear the feelings of men.
I think most women, myself included are glad to hear men opening up more and more about feelings and if we ask how you are if we donāt know you well and you respond āIām alrightā obviously wonāt push much further same as men asking women and them saying āIām fineā but otherwise we care and want to listen and help you and your feelings as much as possible
Opinion
41Opinion
Society doesn't care about anyone, it's the people "you're entourage" are the ones who makes a difference...
Foe example: i never had the problem to express my feelings, if the girls can do it than i can too...
You won't appear weak if you express yourself, the difference is sometimes i just want to cry but i always hold it back and appear strong, cause i don't like to cry in front of others for the problems that i have!
People who loves you will always care about you and will help you to get out of you're misery no matter what you're gender is...
Now if we want to talk about the society, well who is the society? It's men and women, why do women receives more sympathy and care? It's because a lot of men decided to listen and care about them!
Why men are a lot less cared about? It's because a lot of women decided not ro care about how a man feels because women think that such type of men are weak and useless, also because a lot of men were taught to keep their emotions bottled inside and not to ler it out cause it makes them look weak and an unmasculine trait!
I am what i am, if you like it or not and i don't if you care or not, if you do than i'll care about you and if not than i'll treat you the same way you have treated me, period! Whether you're a girl or a boy!
If someone asks how you are then they obviously care a little bit. But if you reply with "I'm alright" then how are they supposed to know? How is that different from someone saying "I'm alright" and meaning it? A woman would likely admit she's not ok and knowing that it's easier to offer comfort than probing someone who's not going to admit it. Take control of your suffering, if you're not ok then say it and seek help!
Society as a whole doesn't care about anybody's feeling. The only ones who will truly care for you are family, closest of friends and a partner. People have this idea that society cares about women... only because we're more vulnerable and can be physically hurt more so than men. And sometimes only when men think they can get something out of it that they pay attention unless as above - family, close friends or partner.
It totally depends. A lot of people actually do care and would even appreciate if sb would give a honest opinion. I m very grateful if people answer in a honest way. But sure sometimes its a conversation starter and its no more than politness
What kinda feelings? Knowing them since when?
This could be too much for sb and causing anxieties at sb who doesn't know you much. Feels like too overhelming to tell this sb you aren't close enough
Telling about stress e. g is sthg people could handle easier, cuz they know it. But telling about depressions people could feel helpless with this information
I hope you can anyhow share part of your feelings and find the balance for both of you
āŗļøšš
Ya great!
I care about people of both genders feelings, usually though we all live in a bubble so only those we know. It is hard to care about strangers I never met.
Society in general doesn't really care about anyone, society is such a loss term though. No one can change society at all, you get little area's that change but things are only your perception in your area.
Asking someone how they are doing though is a joke, men will say I'm "alright" and women will say "Fine" both are suffering and no one really wants to know the truth. It is a greeting and nothing more.
People are selfish and tend to only care about themselves and those they know, regardless of gender.
Well said miss aerissa jade, that's why a family is everything to us and there will be people who will always love you and care about you whether they are strangers or relatives...
It's all about how someone was raised and what kind of feelings he/she have, also if they have faith in god or not!
No, time as well as experts have pointed this out multiple times. Society does not care about a man's feelings. In fact, it is often used against them. Even if many people don't like to admit, society is basically rejecting a man who doesn't "MAN UP!". If this was not the case, then you wouldn't see men keep things in for their own good. Often this is labeled as 'toxic masculinity'. What's ironic is that this "toxic masculinity" is reinforced by WOMEN. Because women in general ge turned off by men who show emotions/vulnerablilty. The suicide and depression rates on the male side speak for themselves. Professional 'help' is also mostly designed for women.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rtJLYN1fxGwhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/LvWpxS_hgSAhttps://www.youtube.com/embed/WV6WNYkzOpoā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø a lot of the time us women dismiss that men are human beings with feelings and emotion just like us. I do feel bad for the standard society has placed upon men. Itās nice to have a tough exterior but you are humans just like us and you should feel safe to express how you feel. Iāve never seen my dad cry in my 24 years of life. Itās so sad.
True my friend. Well said. Double standards and narratives and lies aside, men and women are still attracted to one another and that will never change. Sad thing is, many women (I don't know how many) tend to lie about being less visual and/or more attractive than their male counterparts. That type of manipulative attitude only makes matters worse than they already are. Lol
being totally honest here. even at the highest level of trust, there will still be things never revealed. at least if i was your guy. partly some of it are things i rarely if ever am willing to tell myself even in the confines of my own head. and no its not all derp dark sectets either. some of it is just to keep a little mystery there.
Obviously looks matter when it comes to attraction for both sides. But genuinely women are less visual than men and we WILL fall for guys who arenāt so good looking if they play their cards right.
I literally met this guy a month ago and my first thought was I would never like him. 0 attraction. I rejected him. He played his cards right here and there and now I canāt stop thinking about him.
I know but I canāt stop thinking about him š¢ he played his cards right. At first I thought whatever this guy when he approached me. Then he started messaging me every day, offered to take care of me when I had covid, bring me food to my house when I was hungry and just the way he talked to me ahhhh.
in my experiences, that makes you more of an exception. see too many women claim that but never seem to let their actions prove it. no sm not just reffering to myself asking one out. mostly reffering to other guys i know who are great except for physical looks get turned diwn solely on looks. also considering i apparently had the looks when i was younger cause i had to turn down girls/women (teens to early 20s) a lot. same base personality then as i have now. no one even slightly intetested these days but really old women (50 plus) and even those are very rare.
just my opinion on that here, but that word (these days now anyways) gives people the mentality of actually being a "game" so that they wind up only "playing" at dating. so does the word "player". i say this from observational data only. i noticed the more used those terms have gotten the more everyone plays mind games in trying to date. as for my "game", i refuse to actually "play" it. with me, it is a case of "i like you enough to find out if you are intetested or not and you do the same or we leave it alone". guess that is too brunt or honest for many though.
Absolutely not and in my opinion they shouldn't. I'm part of society and I can straight up tell you I don't care about men's feelings. Woman are born w/ inherent value where men must create value in themselves. It takes character, intelligence, thick skin, luck, humility and the ability to keep your emotions in check just to have a shot. Showing emotion for something serious a death of a love one, the birth of a new one etc is one thing but to make decisions or openly display your emotions as a man is weak and never gets rewarded. To many younger men 18-25 have been pussussified for so long that they really believe this behavior is standard. Now they're confused as to way they can't get a girl or find a career.
I don't believe society cares. It has been ingrained into us that we need to mind our own business and not get involved.
I do care about my brothers, dad, fiance, and our male friends problems and some have opened up to me over the years. I think growing up as the only girl in the house opened my eyes to a lot of things that others miss out on.
yes very much so 😏
Try and cry in front your girl - she will gossip about you with her friends and disrespect you and cheat on you with more of an alpha male.
Try and tell the court you've been asulted lol they'll smirk in your face and act like you just spoken different language
Try and tell the police you've attacked or even a club body guard. They'll tell you to man up and keep away lol.
Try and do what tyreese did when she took his kids. "Oh what do you want from me"😂😂 most of your friend will be looking at you like they want nothing to do with you.
The point is the proof is in the pudding. Men get patronised all the time when they deal with emotional pain. Which is why men don't speak up when going through any shit.
No, sadly society doesnāt care as much as it should.
I have learned to acknowledge a guys feelings when he is hurt.
We are all human, and each and everyone of us have emotions.
Men are allowed to show emotions.
They do, however a lot is down to guys in society, how we interact with other guys.
Getting a guy to first admit he has a problem is hard.
Then getting a guy book an initial assessment is even harder.
Then him turning up for it ā¦ about 3 in 10 chance.
Free counselling (UK) is there for guys and girls.
I cannot speak for society as its too general a construct. who cares... only thing that matters is what you do.
Men do have feelings, and is best to be authentic and find places you can be authentic.
there are people who are caring for others and people who aren't.
it only requires looking at another person to gauge their expression and open a conversation.
We don't wanna seek help for it as I see it. That's both a great point and a horrible point. We wanna fix our own problems. That's a leadership quality when people look to you as a problem-solver. I can't blame society if I stubbornly want to fix my own problems. I don't think it'd turn its back on me if I want help. I just don't want to ask for help. Where are the men seeking help who get turned down? Is the problem that we lack resources or that we don't actually want help in the first place?
I don't agree with the feminist description though that our biggest problem is suppressing emotions. At least some of us aren't wired to throw temper tantrums left and right and cry every time we make a boo-boo. Women are always trying to treat us guys as something broken without realizing how broken they are, and how counter-productive they are. If we want a support group for guys it should be made up of guys. Beers, talk, hot girls, life problems. Girls just don't get it.
It's great that you never needed help when it comes to handling stress and emotions, but your experience is not everyone else's. Even men need help.
You can tell from the tremendous amounts of suicides among men. That substance abuse is a big problem among men. It shows that men find it too hard to ask for or get help that they'd rather damage themselves.
And asking for help is not temper tantrums etc. It can be admitting that you can't handle a certain task alone and ask a colleague for example. It can also be asking a friend for life advice or a good conversation.
If men feel more comfortable getting support from their peers then that's completely fine and if those activities help then that's also good. However distraction and avoidance is only helpful if the problem is short-lived and out of your control. You can't forever distract yourself and avoid the problem with beer and sex. Especially because life will give more stressors later and you might find yourself suddenly with a full bucket where you damage yourself and the people around you.
@spuitkaas Apologies, I was being a bit crude and silly with my answer there in a beer-clashing appeal to us guys. There is no disagreement in my mind that the men you cited need some form of help. Yet I'm not sure the solution is quite as simple to prescribe as suggesting men become more emotional or in touch with their feminine side, e. g.
After all, more women than men apparently attempt suicide in spite of having all sorts of emotional support structures available to them. It's just that far fewer succeed to my understanding. Yet I wouldn't presume that their suicidal tendencies and psychological problems are any better or worse than men on the verge of suicide.
I'm of the view fundamentally that men and women are very different psychologically and in terms of their cognitive patterns and behaviors. So I am a bit allergic to whatever strikes me as a one-size-fits-all solution to tackle both men's and women's mental health, and actually out of equal concern for men's health that I suspect you have. I'm just as concerned but I don't think we're prescribing the correct solution.
@spuitkaas One of the things I find in my personal experience -- and I am speaking not as one admittedly not an expert -- is that broken men often have broken things we can pinpoint in their lives. They might be unemployed, homeless, they might lack goals and aspirations. Above all else, I think a man with no goals to pursue is generally working towards a broken man because men are often very goal-oriented. They tend to derive a lot of their sense of meaning and self-worth from pursuing goals.
I think this is also a source of disparity in communication between men and women. It's very common in my experience for a woman to come home from a hard day all stressed out and talk to her man about it, and he offers a very practical solution to fix the problem like a doctor. Yet she might not actually want a fix. She just wants someone to listen and comfort her like a nurse. When a man is stressed out in my experience, it's usually because something is legitimately broken and he wants to find the most practical fix.
Dammit I wrote a whole message and it just got removed before send š
In the meantime I did do a bit of online research together with my neuroscience knowledge.
You have 2 types of coping functions. Emotion-focused coping and problem-focused coping. Within those functions you have different strategies, but that's a whole other list. The first one is good if the stressor is uncontrollable (death, illness etc.). The second one is good if the stressor is controllable (bad grades, no work etc.). The first one makes you feel less control over your life, the other one more in control over your life.
Men and women are faced in life with different stressors. For men it's more the stressors that are controllable like you said. Work, grades etc. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02895038
My friend Wikipedia said this as well from a study conducted in men vs women: small differences between women's and men's coping strategies when studying individuals in similar situations.
So what I believe from my small little research on this topic: men and women have different type of stressors depending on where society puts value in based on gender (provider vs caretaker). These stressors need different coping strategies, which makes one more dominant than the other. However in a changing world, women are not persƩ the caretaker and men aren't persƩ the provider anymore, however, the coping strategies are less flexible since they're taught form childhood and are more influenced by generational expectations.
So now we have the issue where men aren't as in control over their stressors anymore, since the provider value is diminishing (also bc of late-stage capitalism tbh) and women are expected to be more proactive which causes a new type of stressor to handle while also being extra conscious of what they used to be valued for (caretaker, nurturer).
The problem with gender roles is that not only is it the stressor (because it dictates what you're valued for), it controls your way to cope with the stressor as well (men can't be emotional, women should be sensitive).
So now you have this weird toxic mix of misunderstandings between sexes and problems and some people are less affected by gender roles than others. This depends on your environment and your personality.
I think it's important to keep the conversation going and be empathetic between people during this day and age so not too many people fall behind while dismantling societal gender roles. Let's value people more unconditionally instead of pushing them into a box based on gender. Thank you for listening to my essay HAHA
@spuitkaas Argh, I have done that many times on various sites before and it drives me nuts! I've made a habit of copying and pasting what I write every minute or so if I'm trying to write a lengthy message at once, but sometimes I forget.
How much do you think that nature plays a role as opposed to nurture? I have no doubt that society and our upbringing play a great role in shaping who we are and how we think, but I often think those social norms you speak of are actually somewhat of a reflection of our nature manifesting into our cultures (in possibly a wide variety of ways like trees growing from seeds, but based on the same seed). That's not to justify such norms in any moral sense but I figure, like most other types of animals that are dimorphic, male and female behavioral patterns are quite different at a fundamental level.
On those stressors you mentioned, one of the communication difficulties I've had in past relationships (fortunately my wife really gets me, but not all my exes) is that if I have a hard day at work, for example, I really don't find it stress-relieving to talk about it as many of the women I know like to do. What I'm looking forward to most is to laugh and have some fun.
But I don't really see that as a distraction or a coping mechanism because it's not the type of stress that will haunt me on subsequent days. I genuinely can forget about it without it resurfacing. Nothing's really broken. It was just a hard day.
Now if it's like a loved one dying, that is very traumatic and I take a very long time to get over it, and I do suspect that talking about it and opening up to people accelerates the healing process. But from my standpoint, it's because it's a problem I can never fix. I can't resurrect people from the dead.
@spuitkaas >> (men can't be emotional, women should be sensitive).
On this part, one of my pet peeves is the idea of "Stoic" being used in a derogatory sense, and I think the term is widely misunderstood these days because I don't think it's being properly taught. Stoicism is about cultivating positive thinking patterns. A Stoic sage is like a zen Buddhist monk: a master of inner peace and joy regardless of what they have or don't have.
So I think these days a lot of boys are watching like a John Rambo and think that's what Stoicism is about and thinking it has to do with suppressing emotion rather than cultivating very positive thoughts and emotions.
I did a paper once on the role of sex hormones in stress-related disorders somewhere last year. Don't feel like sourcing everything, but I remember a few things.
Such as that testosterone and estrogen both have a protective role when it comes to amygdala response (fear center) but progesteron had the opposite effect (suggesting fluctuating susceptibility for stress in cycle), high testosterone is associated with more anger and higher self-esteem and baby girls are more focused on faces, baby boys on objects and women are better at facial recognition.
So lots of stuff already innate and probably comes from evolutionary advantage. However I don't know how important this innate difference is though. Especially in adulthood. Individual differences are way bigger than gender differences when it comes to the brain especially. One thing we see constantly in neuroscience though is how incredibly adaptive by environment our brain actually is in our lifetime. I think gender roles were once very useful and partly come from evolutionary differences, but the price to pay is too high vs the benefit it now has, since it's barely important for survival now. There's still room for looking at where everyone's talents lie, but since your brain is so adaptive, tying it to gender is a waste. Maybe there will always be more female nurses and male soldiers, because of the innate difference, but gender roles overexagerrate these differences and is a breeding ground for inequality.
@spuitkaas I see! I do agree that gender roles can definitely be stifling, and grossly oversimplifies the differences between individuals.
Yet one of my concerns has to do with ideals. I think in the process of trying to criticize and deconstruct gender roles, we might have lost some of the nobler ideals of men. I see young men these days idolizing more the concept of "alpha male" than the classic gentleman, the James Bond womanizer type over the loyal family man, etc.
What I'm speaking of is more in the realm of romance and the arts and humanities, but I think at least a lot of men are eager to find an ideal to strive towards. And I think the popular ideal we have today is very hedonistic and very materialistic and not very healthy for society. So that concerns me a great deal these days, as well as seeing relationships between men and women often falling apart.
So within the emotional-based copingmechanisms are different behaviours. Talking about emotions is one of them and it's shown to be quite effective in events without control, however, it's not the only one. Another one that is effective is cognitive reappraisal, where you basically recognize a stressful event as maybe being useful or not as bad. Humor is also a big one and generally associated as being useful.
Then there are also others that are limited effective for smaller stressors (such as a red light or missing the train), which is distraction/relaxation.
It all really depends on your personality and the stressor what will help. It's unfortunate that you didn't feel understood by your ex though. It's hard. I had an ex boyfriend who would shut down completely when there was an annoyance (also with me), so he would ignore me for hours. Very traumatizing.
For women by the way, it is seen that they often grab towards the talking about emotions coping, but maybe that's also excessive and can cause harm in a way. It might make people feel less in control over their lifes if they don't actively approach things or sometimes express emotions like anger. From my personal experience, I had some anger issues as a young kid with ADHD and that was punished very quick which caused me to never even feel angry again. I would directly switch it to sadness, which caused me to cry all the time and this was very detrimental for my mental health because I went in the habit of blaming everything on myself and people walking over me.
Only since a few years I learned how to express annoyance and anger in a healthy way and it helped me a lot in self-confidence and being taken seriously. I hear similar things from women around me very often how they were taught to never show anger.
@spuitkaas I was always inclined towards anger as well when having negative thoughts. It does tend to spur us into action although I find the actions it tempts me to take can be quite foolish more often than not. In my case, I'm not sure if I can really express anger in the healthiest ways. I've learned mostly to combat my angry thoughts and do things like raise my voice and talk assertively even though I'm not angry when people are out of line.
On expressing our emotions though, one of the lines that are blurry to me is dwelling on a problem vs. fixing it. I find when I talk about something bothering me a lot, I don't cease to get bothered by it. Instead, I get more bothered by it since I'm thinking and talking about it more. That's one of the reasons I don't care to talk about things that stress me out so often. Every time I try and even with the most supportive of friends, it seems to resemble picking at a scab at a wound that was already healing on its own.
Also I agree with the stoicism. It's more of an independence and confidence to not be negatively bothered too much by pressure from others. However the image of masculinity has been heavily influenced by the world wars probably. Coming back traumatized and staying the provider, you had to avoid your emotions to survive, but it was also pushed so men would keep working. This image isn't easily changed unfortunately.
I truly believe men (especially young men) are going through an identity crisis. Out of insecurity, they latch on either complete rejection of gender roles or go towards an old image of masculinity. They don't know how they can be valued anymore (because of women emancipation and late-stage capitalism). They're still told as a child they would be worthy if they could provide and work and as an adult don't get the recognition they expected.
I'm afraid though that people will always have a need to have an mainstream idea of gender they can identify with, but also to differentiate the opposite gender people for sexual selection. Therefore we need a masculinity role model, but it has to be healthy and that's where the real issue lays
@spuitkaas For example, one of the real traumatic experiences for me when I was much younger was a broken heart. It took me over a year to get over it. And I did exactly what people suggest for once of really opening up to people about my emotions and what's bothering me. I talked to every single person who'd listen about how much I missed her, how she was the only thing I ever wanted in life, I'd talk about our dates, sometimes I'd talk about her negative side to see if that would help me move on. I tried everything exhausting conversation after conversation until few people wanted to talk to me anymore since that's all I'd want to talk about.
And I didn't find that helping at all. Instead, what finally helped was the opposite. I stopped talking about her. I threw away the things she left in my place that constantly reminded me of her. I stopped listening to much of my favorite music since we had most favorite songs in common. I basically worked towards a point of not thinking about her 24/7, and that's when I finally started to move on.
@spuitkaas >> I'm afraid though that people will always have a need to have an mainstream idea of gender they can identify with, but also to differentiate the opposite gender people for sexual selection. Therefore we need a masculinity role model, but it has to be healthy and that's where the real issue lays
That's one of my primary concerns these days. I think ideally we could just have archetypes of what we consider ideal human beings in a gender-neutral fashion. I often think it's a bit of a battle with popular culture though.
The thing I find about my ideal image of a man that I aspire towards (not expect other men to do so, but it's my idea of what I'd like to be) is probably going to have a very difficult time becoming popular. A recognizable fictional character that has many of these traits is Mr. Miyagi from Karate Kid.
But he's not very cool. He's a teeny old man who is very warm and gentle and tries to avoid fights not out of fear of being hurt, but out of disgust for fighting. I don't think this kind of image of a man can become so mainstream.
Yes I also express anger in being assertive and I think that's healthy haha. Only issue is that people now find me intimidating, especially men š¤¦š¼āāļø. But it's worth the respect I get and I have enough social support from my female friends though.
I get that yes. If you talk about an emotion you're also kinda admitting you have it as well and sometimes you don't need to fixate on every emotion at any time if they go away on their own by time anyways. I think also admitting to those emotions can also cause that not in control feeling we talked about before. It just depends on the stressor again what's actually healthy. Sometimes it's picking a scab away from somthing that's healing but sometimes it's like taking out a splinter that would otherwise get infected.
I think it's the same with the talking about emotions vs the other emotional coping strategies. To talk about it, you have to pay attention to it, but it also depends on how much attention you need to be able to talk about it and if you can relieve it after.
It's like scratching the scab for short relieve and being able to leave it alone after vs peel the scab and scratching it over and over again.
@spuitkaas I love that splinter removal analogy: very succinct! Unfortunately, I'm not sure I ever had an experience that was analogous to splinter removal by talking about such things, and I've no shortage of very supportive friends (both men and women). Perhaps I'm an abnormally difficult case to comfort through open communication.
I do love hugs though. They cheer me up. And that's also my strategy these days if my wife is upset and talking a lot and the words aren't coming to me. I just give her a hug.
That must've been a hard time and then I also get your reluctance to talking about emotions. I guess you were fixating too long on it and it became a burden for the people around you because they felt like they couldn't help you.
Why we talk to other people about stressful things is so we can rationalize our emotions a bit and get some empathy from other people and put it in perspective. If we don't get that, it won't work. Also there's a max on how much you can "burden" people. Also other people want to feel useful so if they don't, it's just exhausting.
Also for ourselves to constantly bring up the memories. I wonder though if you hadn't talked about it at all with others. You may have had some sort of trauma since it was never rationalized or put in perspective and dysregulate your nervous system where you get a strong response to similar events because your body is searching for a way to tie it to a stimulus to prevent it from happening again. This could be blaming yourself, her or the environment or something.
I guess in your situation cognitive reappraisal might've been more effective in that moment, but that's some hindsight.
For me, I had a shit experience with a guy I was dating a short while ago and my friends were there to listen, give advice and put it in perspective and I felt within a day completely fine vs the week of misery before that, because I have the habit of internalizing everything. So then my friends could help me externalize it, give empathy and some distraction ofcourse.
So I don't know I think it depends on your personality as well as how much your nervous system is triggered. As a sensitive person who tends to internalize (by the way women tend to internalize more), I might get better from social comfort. If I would avoid or distract myself only, my self-esteem would get damaged or I would never date again.
@spuitkaas One thing I suspect is that I'm highly allergic to aphorisms and cute little expressions. I often find many people resorting to those when trying to comfort people, and I find them almost unbearably unoriginal with very narrow applicability and very little in the way of actual wisdom.
That might be one of the reasons why, and my own mother was an extreme case of it. She loved browsing through and picking out Hallmark cards and she'd collect books with cute little sayings inside them. Somehow she found depth and beauty in such words that I find so uninspiring and so unoriginal.
Your style of communicating seems very appealing to me though. It's not terse. It's deeply thoughtful and capable of both deep analysis and interesting metaphors like your splinter analogy. That style of communication might work for me to aid me in working through problems. I rarely encounter someone quite like you though. Most of my friends are either resorting to terse aphorisms or cold-hearted logic or overly warm and fluffy talk of a kind that ill suits me.
I think a gender-neutral role model would be great in theory. Like practice confidence, empathy etc. I do think it's indeed a battle with popular culture, but also I wonder if that will work if people have sexual differentiation. Then again, right now sexual differentiation and attraction is overexaggerated right now so I don't know how much of the need to identify is learned or innate.
Haha I Iove your role model! I think maybe we can have role models with traits that are the same for both genders. Being empathetic, social, confident, happy, helpful in society etc. Problem is that people will always compete with eachother to strive for that ideal being. To get power, sex or love. People are jealous.
@spuitkaas That's sort of a general cultural disconnect I have with most people. Take memes. I don't understand their appeal. Some of them are a bit funny but I don't understand what motivates people to share memes. I could understand the appeal more of trying to create one but less so in sharing them to try to communicate something.
I'm the queen of analogies haha. I meant in the way that the splinter could be trauma. Some people are also not very susceptible to trauma though. It depends on how easily excitable and adaptable your nervous system is and if you tend to externalize or internalize.
My paper also talked a bit about trauma. Women are way more likely to have trauma and to develop PTSD, however, it has also been shown that the lack social support being the most consistent predictor of negative outcome of trauma.
Even though that women have more trauma and PTSD has so many factors of as to why, it does seem that that emotion talking strategy is working very well with women. Could be true that it might work less for men. Kinda wanna do research about it now š¤
@spuitkaas I'd be curious about the results if so. It might also relate to the style of communication involved all the way down to nuanced factors like the tone of voice from the person trying to help the other.
Yes same. I think they're really cringy, unempathetic and unoriginal. Great if it works for you personally, but it's tone-deaf when you come with that when a person needs aid. They mean well, but yeah. My mom would always say things like how it could always be worse and it's a bit of the same principle. It's tone-deaf.
Could very much be that you had a bad reaction from the people around you that made you so allergic to opening up. You have to learn how to listen to people and see what they need from you and show empathy and not many people had to do that much in their lives I guess.
Thank you though! Appreciate the compliment! People irl also appreciate me for being a good listener. I don't know where you're from but I suspect the US and there people are in general a little less open or direct and care much about status. At least it's what I already noticed from my 5 months abroad in Canada and it drove me nuts. People would say anything to "look nice". I'm from the Netherlands and we can come off as rude to Americans in the beginning, but will always be honest, direct and oversharing. It's something I missed so much during my time in Canada.
You already opened up a bit in this thread so that's a step forward! Find the right people as well who you don't only trust, but you match with their listening style or try to find what it is that makes you feel safe abd comforted and maybe you can grow with your wife for example towards a place where you can fully open up. She'll probably appreciate that as well since it allows more open communication for certain things.
Let me educate as a very young 25 year old haha. What's nice about memes is to see that people experience the same things or think the same things. It's relatable. Kinda like why comedians are funny for example.
Sometimes they express a thought or feeling better than you could explain in words and with social media, you can't always see the facial expressions.
I really like tiktok for this reason when it comes to explaining my ADHD experiences to people, because I sometimes can't explain my experiences and people want to relate to be empathetic. Then a tiktok comes by that gives a brilliant analogy, simulation or joke that describes exactly what I meant.
If it's through jokes, cartoons, poems etc, people always want to share their feelings and experiences.
@spuitkaas I am from Japan originally although I went to the US for high school and university and worked there for some time. I had similar complaints as well about American culture, although I adapted a bit. Yet adapting well enough required me to summon a far more assertive side to me than I ever imagined I had, and I found Japanese-style ideas of humility ill-suited in that culture since people tend to bulldoze right over it. I've actually come to think some degree of arrogance and vanity and superficiality might be a practical requirement to fit in well in many parts of the US. Once I returned to Japan though, I had already become sufficiently Americanized that I also have many complaints about Japanese culture, like the way people express a very different side of themselves in private from the public (honne vs. tatemae).
@spuitkaas With my wife, she's actually quite an oddball. She has a more stereotypically "masculine" mindset, and perhaps because she spent a whole lot of time growing up with her brothers (she was the only daughter among brothers). She's also a bit of a tomboy into martial arts and kendo (her father is a kendo and judo instructor) although she does like to dress up as well. She's an interesting mix.
Yet she is sort of the type where if a person is complaining a lot over something very small, her response can be like, "What's the big deal? Just do this! Stop complaining!" It might seem a bit cold but it suits me very well and leads to a lot of laughs. She does sometimes go into a mode where she does get very stressed out over something quite big and becomes riddled with self-doubts and becomes overwhelmed, but it's rare and far between. Yet she responds very well to my style of trying to comfort her which is more hugs and jokes and trying to offer a different perspective.
Ah yes Japanese culture must be VERY different. In the Netherlands we think Americans are arrogant as well. We're kinda like the UK. We kinda feel like we're great, but also have our self-deprecating jokes. Just don't make fun of the things we have pride in I think. Also you can't show as much that you're proud of something bc we have that stupid calvinistic thought process of "act normal and you're acting crazy enough". I really dislike that though.
Lol she sounds a lot like me (or I do like her) HAHA. I'm also that weird mix of tomboy and very feminine. Emotional I'm very feminine though.
If it works for her to diminish problems then that's good. If it works for you then that's also good. If she's there if there's really something tough then that's sufficient.
For me it wouldn't work I guess because I get very anxious from small things already. I'm a very sensitive person and if someone would diminish my problems or say I should stop complaining I would shut down and not feel comfortable again to open up, so I need someone that can give me that reassurance and safety. Unfortunately dating has not been prosperous, but it might happen eventually.
@spuitkaas That sort of "tough love" approach tends to work for me even though it often diminishes problems, but I think it's because I respond by generating thoughts like, "Hey, maybe you're right! Maybe it isn't such a big deal. I'm probably being a bit silly!" I think the "love" part is even more crucial than the "tough" part though to make it clear that the person isn't simply being hostile. I wonder what sort of people respond better to this approach as the softer type of expressing love, and if it varies, on average, between men and women.
I like this flow of communication we're having where it's like we're taking turns sharing things about each other and without the need for many questions to prompt it. I tend to naturally communicate this way although some people don't end up taking their turn and opening up to me about themselves. I think it's because my ultimate desire is to seek mutual understanding above all else. I think this style of taking turns sharing things about each other really works towards that goal and gets us on the same page.
I sometimes wonder if it comes off sounding a bit self-centered when I try to resolve conflicts by sharing personal things about myself. My hope though is that the other person will do the same and we can take turns back and forth until we're really understanding each other and where we're coming from.
I think it depends on your self-esteem and if you tend to externalize or internalize more (which also has an effect on self-esteem again). It's because if you deminish the problem, you can either go "yeah it wasn't that bad or my fault. You're right!" or "oh yes my emotions were completely inappropriate. I shouldn't feel that way". Women tend to internalize more and have lower self-esteem, so I think there's definitely a gender difference. I saw in one paper that women also care more about how people perceive them when it comes to emotions. I don't know if it's that they generally care more about how they're perceived, or particularly of coming off as overemotional/hysterical. Either way they're the perfect ingredients for low self-esteem to constantly question your reactions and emotions. For me I'm very conscious about appearing too emotional bc of my childhood, so someone deminishing my emotions would only validate my fear.
Ah yes same! I tend to overshare when it comes to my experiences and sometimes bulldozer over other people. Luckily you can't get interrupted in chat lol.
I'm also always very scared of that. Especially since I talk too much, interrupt and overshare (it's an ADHD thing), so I will get moments in between to extra check on people and try to be conscious about their reactions. It's very difficult for me when a person is very closed off though, because then I don't feel comfortable sharing anymore.
Absolutely not. Gen Z is full of hypocrisy when it comes to this whole narrative about mental health. We say we care about everyone, but the truth is that we really don't. I see all kinds of hateful posts about men on just about every social media platform there is... so much to the point that I"ve had to take frequent breaks from the internet because of how awful it's gotten. I was just having a conversation with a co-worker about how whenever a big male celebrity opens up or cries... he gets meme'd to oblivion. I can't imagine it's much better for the everyday man who decides to be emotive in 2022.
Women see men who talk about their feelings as emotional and weak, no matter what they say. The minute you expose any weakness or vulnerability, they tear you apart in their mind. If you want them around too much, you're too needy. If you tell them you love them before they tell you, half the time it scares them off because they have a fear of intimacy. The list goes on forever.
Society needs a disposable class and that's us.
I don't see that changing, do you really think the Ukrainian men want to die when Putin tries to grab another chunk of Ukraine? Like the thousands that died when Putin invaded Crimea?
No, but they know that it's up to them to protect their homes , families wives and children. The male protective instinct is often used to subjugate him. .
Unfortunately society tells men to suppress their feelings which makes many feel uncomfortable with even telling close family and friends how they feel out of fear from being characterized as weak
No offence but society doesn't really care about anyone feeling. You find small groups of people who are supportive and do care, but society as a whole doesn't really care about the individual.
I disagree. We have an entire society built around acknowledging protecting and adjusting to womens feelings. Basic sayings like "Women and Children first" are common phrases ingrained in today's lexicon.
@Vegasrunner That phrase was coined in a time when women were the dependent's of their father's, brothers, and husbands and couldn't even have their own bank account. That no longer applies in today's society
That's not relevant to the statement. Just the fact that you're aware that it exists, highlights it's place in todays vocabulary.
@Vegasrunner except itās not used in society today, not any more.
Besides not being true, it has no relevance to the discussion. That's simply one common phrase that even you yourself admit you are familiar w/ I can only make the assumption that you're intelligent enough to realize it's not the only example to highlight the original point.
@Vegasrunner Iām not saying that it wasnāt used at one point, Iām saying that it doesnāt apply today.
Yes, you said this before. What I'm saying is
1. That's false
2. It doesn't matter if it's true or false simply the fact that we both agree that the phrase exists proves my point.
@Vegasrunner existed.. past tense. No one uses it any more.
We will have to agree to disagree. Although your response kind of proves my point. It's not possible for anyone to speak for the entirety of the world. What you are really saying is the people you know don't use that phrase. As for the original point, is there some term or phrase or action that has invoked the protection of a mans feelings?
Generally society doesn't care about men's feelings, most of the talk of men's mental health is virtue signalling. Men are still expected to be strong and emotionless, having feelings is still generally seen as a weakness in men.
Some men start this by telling each other not to show feelings. Then attempt to label those that do.
Men started it but too many women reinforce it. Everyone is to blame.
@sirderpsalot123 Those woman are probably raised in the same households with that thought process.
If wearing a pink tutu got positive female attention it would be dress code for the military.
Men litteraly sign up for wars to win female attention.
Women created the social rules men follow.
@Slartybartfast Yet comments such as yours usually come from men who are divorced or single.
Exactly, men are so conditioned to do say and think the way women want it takes maturation to finally have the courage to speak out.
The word I think you're looking for is Simp..
@Slartybartfast Not what I was thinking, in fact.
It's one good reason why we have made great strides for women to free themselves from their rolls of the past but we can't even discuss giving men the freedom to do the same.
Because young men will trip over themselves and say it do almost anything , including sign up to be cannon fodder in a war to will female approval. ..
Men's power over women is physical, it's controlled by laws and as feminist doctrine states, the law is patriarchal, meant to control the crimes of men.
The worst men are in prison, the worst women roam free.
A man might be a killer, while a women who abused her spouse till he kills himself is not considered a criminal.
A killer is sent to prison or exicuted, the psychological abuse that women use , while at least equally bad, with the same result of death, is rarely punished.
Men and women are equally bad, that's not misandrus..
@Slartybartfast That was dark. You are a mess.
I feel like society doesnāt care about adults in general. Only children get the care and attention that they need. Adults are expected to be able to handle everything themselves.
I think he's asking about feelings. AS rule of thumb society definitely does not care about mens feelings, and in my opinion they shouldn't
Men run the world and reality is that privilege is earned many times through defeating your competitors. If we had to stop and consider another mans "feelings" every time he took an L nothing would get done. Women and Childrem can male decisions based on emotion but part of being a successful man is staying calm under pressure and making your decisions based on facts, tangible truths and the best interests of those who depend on you.
Society isn't the issue. I don't expect society at large to care. The fact is that that even the people who are close to us don't care, just as long a were doing the whole provider/protector role that's expected of us. Go ahead and try to explain how you really feel to your woman. You'll either lose her respect, she'll turn it around and make it her problem, or she'll outright roast and invalidate you.
Today one of my neighbors committed suicide due to a prolonged quarrel and depression, so I will say no. Divorce is hard for men without losing everything. Women get physically abused by en and everyone goes nuts but most men get mentally abused by women.
I think that society cares about Men's feelings. Absolutely. That is why there is centuries of psych research looking at both men and women
Nobody makes any type of excuse for men's feelings... and if you are a white guy your doubly discounted. Man bashing and shaming is pretty much accepted these days..
Why is every question on here about the victimizing of men and the vilification of women? What is this gender was going on? No normal guys on here?
If any of us were normal we probably wouldn't be here lol
Caring about your feelings doesn't mean someone has to date you. As long as you're not dying society cares about you. Shame on you for acting like a retard when there are billions of chickens dying and no one gives a fuck about how they feel.
no. it's have a job and your life together or fuck off and die. that's life for men.
Have seen it all my life and from older generations.
Guys are expendable and rarely anybody cares for one.
in our society, we seem to think men should not show and have emotions at all, so i am gonna say not so much. men are seen as weak if they do show that kind of emotion. but that needs to all change i think.
Society doesn't typically care for one's well-being, but concern itself with taboos and negative traits of people
Nope. I am part of this since I was told as a 4 year old to not show feelings or I am a weak bitch or an execution-worth faggot by my dad.
Also, it's always like it's menās fault, a guyās fault, blah blah blah. Sure there are some toxic men out there but just because a guy has an opinion it has either bad, racist, sexist, etc. Like... Ok but like because Iām a guy some people expect me to be a copy and the pasted person they met before if I am a complex person with good ideas, a rational/intellectual mind, and a unique way to see the world. Like I have been literally been harassed online because Iām a guy and for some weird reason it gave people the fucking authority to be assholes without a reason. Like if I cry Iām a cry baby or if I show emotions most people would say Iām fake. There are so many fucking titles we put on people without a good excuse and we just arenāt fair.
They usually don't. It's either we're seen as over acting or they assume men can just handle it. But when they do, they "care". Meaning they want men to open up so they can take advantage of it.
Stay strong brother. Castles and pyramids aren't built by one man.
Based on the way Society treats men it's pretty clear that nobody cares about the way men feel or the unfair treatment they often receive
And that's why men have the highest suicide rates and most prone to do something extremely violent. All the surpressed emotions.
Nobody cares about anyone's feelings except their own and maybe a few loved ones.
Society couldn't give 2 shits about ANYONE'S feelings.
More and more. That stigma that men have no feelings is slowing dying.
Majority of society is menā¦but Iād say this is a side effect of toxic masculinity ironically.
once I was on a very crowded bus crying, no one gave a fuck. its not about genders
I don't care about anyone's feelings
Society doesn't care about anyone's feelings
no and it shouldnāt. men should be more stoic and tough. too many pussy guys now a days
I am actually surprised by the pole result!
I have no idea. Maybe.
Society doesnāt care.
Society says yes. The facts of society say no.
Hahaha yea right, not a fucking chance in hell.
No! But you make your own empire.
There's no money in it so nobody gives a fuck.
Short answer is no.
It doesnāt and itās not afraid to show that
they only care about money or success
Nope
Not at all lol
complicated
Nope
I'm alright 🥲
not one bit
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