Why do some men expect it both ways?

[HappyWoman34]

That a woman has to be a virgin, who is beautiful, smart, funny and innocent, but not too innocent? (Lacks emotional innocence). Then, if the man meets a young virgin who fits the description of being innocent, but lacks beauty and or intelligence or humour and presents as overeager, they’re likely to decide she’s probably not their type, even though all these other things can be improved with time and more life experience on the virgin’s part? I’ve noticed this with two of my guy friends, being uninterested initially in a perfectly nice, innocent woman and I’ve tried to explain to them that the women who may seem exciting and confident have had more experience, but a virgin can be just as cool as an experienced woman and won’t remain innocent forever. Unless she wants to, which most people don’t.

Updates

+1 y

Note, I’m saying some men. They seem to expect everything from women. I’m not implying that virgins are boring or that experienced women are better. I know virgins and non virgins and I think there’s nothing wrong with the decision to lose one’s virginity, just as there’s nothing wrong with staying a virgin.

[Friendlybro79]

Because some people are just unreasonable. It's that simple. These people just are this way. Same for women. Some women expect 6'3 6 pack, 6 figures, and porno peen lol. My advice is to not pay attention to those people and worry about being your best you. Have a good day.

[Vegasrunner]

Why would you ne trying to explain this to your guy friends? Shouldn't you simply acknowledge the evidence?

[HappyWoman34]

They might be missing out by expecting too much from women.

[Vegasrunner]

@happywoman34 Seems more like you're making the mistake a lot of women make of believing that men view relationships through a female lens. They are probably not interested in that nice woman because she's not attractive.

[HappyWoman34]

Yeah, you’re right. She’s just ordinary looking.

[ManOnFire]

@Vegasrunner Making another good point.

[ManOnFire]

Men tend to have what is called the "madonna-whore complex," where they want an innocent, pure type of woman who is attractive and matriarchal, but they still have an intense sexual desire for a more whorish woman who will do all kinds of things for him in bed, regardless of whether she's attractive or not. The pure and innocent woman is like a trophy, and the whorish one is the forbidden fruit he can enjoy in secret. A lot of men don't really realize this, but also because they don’t know to confront it and become more self-aware about it.

However, many, many women also have this kind of complex: they are romantically attracted to men they can see are decent and loving, and they calculate that he would be the type to make a good father and husband, but they will still have sex/situationships with men they know aren't good and they would never marry them, but they are sexually attracted to something about those guys.

Both situations are wrong to me. I personally like the woman with good intentions who seems pure but is still lively and loving in bed. Regardless of whether she's a virgin or not. There are much worse things to worry about in a person than their non-virginal status.

[blueonblack22]

The vast majority of men can’t get away with such high expectations unless they are in the top 1%. We might feel ourselves struggling with this dichotomy but we got little room to complain about it Especially if we live in a modern western country.

But I am really fed up with women who base there opinions on men only by the men they are interested in. It’s like millions of women worrying about Ryan Gosling prefers. Not to say all women expect celebrities but they are usually basing male stereotypes on men who are out of their league not their true equivalents.

[HappyWoman34]

This is why I’ve said ‘some’ men. Not all men do this. However, I’m curious about those who do and they’re whom I’m referring to. A lot of guys with these expectations aren’t the sorts of guys I’d be interested in.

[blueonblack22]

Right. But who are women usually noticing? Most other guys, their life experiences, their trials and tribulations, etc mean very little to a large percentage of women. Simply because they are literally invisible.

[mateta_haidara]

The 1% men you think of don’t really want such a woman described above. Those Instagram models they date are not at all like that. Some of them are not virgins because they have already slept with other guys in the 1%. I remember there was a woman who went from Clint Eastwood to Mick Jagger or the other way around. The most innocent woman won’t go on a yacht with a celebrity.

[InDetail]

My opinion is that men believe most women are that just for the right man.

If she is holding out, then if she likes him enough she will create opportunities. Many women break thier own rules and standards for men they like, men know this and want to be that guy. Not disregarding the women that don't break thier own rules but yeah.

[GuyAnswersGirls123]

I don't think we value the idea enough these days that people can and will change. That "high-value man" can go broke spending all his money on sports cars. Beauty fades. We are so "now-oriented" these days, and I think that drives a search for something very perfect which eludes everyone's grasp but not the type of person with whom we can grow together who might be living right next door.

[Berethor]

She intelligent for keeping her virginity for so long, and I pefer plain virgin over beautiful ho.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Nature_Adores_a_Virgin

[DarkLegacy]

Why do women want it both ways, they want the bad 'alpha' type guy but still want the innocent 'beta' type guy around so they can save them for later. Why do they get with a good guy and then cheat with a bad guy.

Why do women want it both ways with equality, by expecting men to maintain their gender roles by being chivalrous but women give up their gender roles and demand equality.

[CrabCakes11]

Almost nobody wants the “bad alpha”

[DarkLegacy]

@CrabCakes11 Maybe, but they are never short of girls.

[mandyfire98]

Very common with some guys. Wants a woman with no experience but she still has to be a pornstar in bed.

Madonna whore dichotomy. A woman to them is either a chaste virgin or a slutty whore. No in-between.

[RedInnocent69]

Same reason women do. Y’all want a sexy, powerful Alpha to provide for and protect you who’s head over heels, only sees you, and wants lots of kids, or whatever.

[HappyWoman34]

I think some women are more realistic that many of us are never going to find trophy husbands. Than some men are.

[CrabCakes11]

So men’s unreasonable standards is to have a perfect virgin who isn’t a virgin, and women’s unreasonable standards is to have a man who loves them, wants kids, and doesn’t cheat on them? Only one of those is unreasonable

[RedInnocent69]

Seems legit.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’m not detecting the “both ways” of your scenario. You’re just describing men having standards. I think that’s a good thing for a change. Most men have been conditioned to believe that any woman who is interested is a godsend. We should sweep her up and worship her like a goddess because we’re lucky to have a woman at all. We don’t deserve better.
Men with meaningful standards and boundaries is new. I for one hope it continues and grows. Lots of women have extremely high expectations. Why shouldn’t men? Are we second class citizens? Maybe a contributing factor to divorce is people realizing that they compromised too much and just aren’t really happy. Sure, it’s mostly women filing, but maybe they’re not satisfied because their husbands stop putting in the effort because the women were never really giving all of themselves.
Men AND women having meaningful standards and boundaries is a good thing. Stop shaming men for having a little self respect. We’re not second class citizens.

[HappyWoman34]

I’m not shaming men, like they’re inferior. I’m pointing out the fact that some men have unrealistic standards. It’s true there are women who do too, however today, I’m focusing on men.

[Kingofkings1992]

I’m sorry, but women contradict themselves in their wants exponentially more than men do, and you ladies know it too. us men are very simple creatures, we are not difficult to please.

[HappyWoman34]

Some of you are as hypocritical and difficult to please as some women.

[Anonymous]

I love a woman who wants it both ways. ;)

But seriously, I don't think there are many men who actually expect a woman to be a virgin and all those other things. I mean yes, a woman like that is ideal, but most of us know it's not realistic. That doesn't mean we can't wish for it. It's no different from most women who "expect" men to be a Brad Pitt or something. They don't really expect it, they just want it.

[Anonymous]

You do realize you sound just like all the guys complaining about women's high standars and expecting a guy who is tall, hot, intelligent, drives a nice car and is rich, right?

There is a difference between expecting and wanting.

[HappyWoman34]

I’m not complaining, as I don’t have trouble attracting men. I’m commenting on my observations, which is the hypocrisy of some men.

[Opinion Owner]

The irony of you using the term hypocrisy here is pretty comical.

[PeachyPie93]

This gen is shit, that all there is to it, and it is only gonna get worse from here lol.

[Nikki1989]

Men that seek out virgins are almost always total creeps.

[DextroShade]

Men love innocent women and we don't give a damn about "emotional intelligence". As long as she is fit, feminine, friendly, cooperative, submissive, childless, and not a hoe we are good.

[DishLady]

Yeah, they want all the Mary’s in the Bible at once. 🤷🏻‍♀️


It’s ok. You can read a book and learn. You don’t have to change who you are.

[ManOnFire]

"all the Mary’s in the Bible"🤣

[dustybiker2]

It's a good thing. Clearly shows which men to avoid.

[NathanDavis]

not that I "expected or demanded" it but my ex had all of this and way more... lol

[whiskeyontherocks]

I feel fortunate that I don’t have any male friends that have these kinds of expectations.
Personally I just expect some form of effort in the relationship. That includes the bedroom.

[Sevenpointfive]

i remember not losing my virginity to my virgin girlfriend. big mistake

[Anonymous]

Guys who insist on dating virgins have mental problems.

[ManOnFire]

Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

This is the hookup culture effect. People who engage in hookup culture ruined the sexual ‘market’. Because now some women give their body to men too easily, but they want to be respected. And some men sleep with women they don’t respect and want to have a long-term partner they respect. I think the normality should be sleeping with someone only in a committed relationship. The normal woman is neither a madonna nor a whore, but in the middle.

[rebeliouse]

give me experience anyday higher the body count the better in bed virgin is just bucket list tick

older is fine as long as they look after themselves

[DonFredoCorleone]

Because of woke culture, women see themselves as superior to men. Someone needs to defend men's rights, that's why #TRUMP2024

[DonVitoCorleone]

because that's the nature of masculinity 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇷🇺

[LEGENDARY4200]

Wishful thinking

[HappyWoman34]

I just think it’s totally unrealistic. It’s rare to have it both ways. I’m not saying it never happens, as I know two emotionally streetwise virgins who lost their emotional innocence long ago, so you’d never guess. But they’re exceptions to the rule.

[LEGENDARY4200]

There are, but for the most part, it is completely unrealistic. You can't have it both ways

[MasterKS]

simple 'too innocent' is just dumb!

[mayurr]

Some.