The fall of marriage and relationships: It's relation to Feminism

[Anonymous]

Oh yes, come in my spectators. I see that you have been drawn in by shameless clickbait "take". But I assure you I am not trying to cater to your anger, I just want to point out some facts and views from a man. This article is aimed at women who plan on marriage sometime in their life, or women who plan on a serious monogamous relationship with a man.

I will not use my personal experience because i do not like using something that is bias and could be filled with emotions which could cloud my argument. I will simply use facts and other peoples experiences.

What marriage or a relationship is

A relationship is a two way street. It consists of ups and downs, fulfillment and disappointment. An example would be a traditional family, The husband works and the wife takes care of the children by whatever necessary means. The husband would work all day and provide for the family. The wife would work all day by cleaning, cooking, and all other tasks that need to be done to keep the house in order at the same time caring for the children. This is what i mean when i mention a "two way street", it consists of the husband handing over all the resources he made to the family (wife) and he has the trust that she will do her responsibility of taking care of the house and children with those resources. If you are in a marriage that both of you have decided to not have children, then you would more than likely both work and hire a housekeeper to clean and maybe cook.

For a relationship, it's a little different but same principle. Because the wife does not have to sink all that energy into those little cute bundle of destruction and satisfaction, she is free to work or do whatever she wants to do. But the man is still expected to provide for her, and bring the bacon home. Of course like the marriage she would take care of the house, and cook. OR both work and pay a housekeeper to cook and clean. either way is fine you are both contributing logistically(keyword).

I want you to notice two things about this section: A) I have not mentioned anything about emotions and feelings portion of relationships, just the logistics of the relationship (so far) B) When i was talking about marriage and kids i did not mention women working because replacing the mother with a nanny just damages the children mentally and for fun you can google "Nanny vs Mother".

Let's talk about the emotional aspect of relationships and marriages. Anyone with a brain or lived past the age 11 (congratulations you made it) will know that relationships and marriages have it's emotional rollercoasters. Every couple on the face of the planet that ever existed has had their problems, there is no such things as a "perfect relationship". You will find that you other half doesn't like the same music, or maybe doesn't like your dream pet. There will be things that you will annoy you about your partner, and one day when you guys have been together long enough....the sex will almost (not fully) stop. This is something you must know in that you WILL experience. Are you ready for that? Because if you can get through that, then the reward will be immense, you will have a partner next to you that supports you and loves you. You will live together and share memories, you will suffer together and be in bliss together.

Why is Feminism blamed here?

The definition of feminism:

The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

Here is the thing though, the western woman is the most privileged creature on the face of the planet. Females have social and government support for everything; rape, abuse, mental health, physical health and almost all aspects of their lives.

• Females get shorter sentences for the same exact crime than males.


• Males are 3 times as likely to commit suicide


• Males suffer 93% of workplace death and men are 54% of the workforce


• Males make up 93% of the prison population


• Males are more likely to be victims of violent crimes


• Males are also more likely to be murdered


• Breast cancer funding gets twice as much then Prostate cancer does even though the same amount die


• There are way more scholarships for females then there are for males


• There are more females in college then there are men


• Females are now doing better in public school because public school now goes by females standards of learning, thus the male suffers. This is why males grades are now suffering in school


• Males are more likely to drop out


• Females gentile mutilation is illegal but male circumcision is not.

I can go on and on about the difference of treatment of women and men in the "system and society". Let's not forget about the upper hand in divorce courts that women have. It is obvious that females have the better start from birth and feminism has no more reason of existing.

Feminism has told women it's okay to get a divorce if you want even if there is nothing wrong with the relationship and you are just "bored". And that being promiscuous is okay. Feminism tells women and men that the father is not needed in the family even though single mother children are way more likely to commit crimes and have future problems with relationships, among other problems. Feminism takes the responsibility and accountability from the women and gives it to the man. Feminism believes that masculinity is oppressive and dangerous, they suppress it and say such scientifically wrong things like "social gender is a construct" yet science has proven over and over the difference of bodies and brains between the woman and the man.

My conclusion:

I'm here to tell you that men are waking up and are saying "enough" and are refusing marriage and relationship and to take any part of it. Why would i want to give my resources to a woman who can just cheat on me and take all my money away legally? In some states if the man finds out that his children are not his and he divorces the woman, he still has to pay for the children AND the woman. In this day the woman can cheat, and completely destroy a man in marriage. As far as relationships go, men do not want to be with women who believe that the man is a "potential rapist" or "sexist" or what ever other name you can call us or accuse us of being...

Simple fact is me and millions of other men are not planning on marriage or a relationship. There is too much to risk and the reward is just not worth it. Less and less woman are worth marriage. And 53% of all marriages fails which means that whatever children that did experience divorce saw the pain it brought to the family and the way the father walked away with nothing and even less then nothing.

I can go on and on about the many crimes of feminism such as supporting false rape claims and when found out that they lied; the support for the woman is still there. We men see how we are treated, and simply said is that me and many, MANY more are off the market. Consider that and the rest of the males that are in prison, in wars, sick(males have more health problems), suicides and other reason that make us come off the “market” for you ladies; it’s going to be a really competitive future for you.

[Sara413]

"Let's blame feminism for all the problems men have even though feminists do far more to combat the social structures and systems in place that impact men negatively than any anti-feminist person or group has ever done! Yeah, that makes ALL THE SENSE!!!" - MRA's fucking everywhere...

- The divorce rate has actually been IN DECLINE over the past couple of decades, which just so happen to be the couple of decades in which women made the greatest gains in their work, social and political lives. Today's women hav the most successful careers of any generation and, interestingly enough, we have the most successful and fulfilling relationships as well. Women's and men's marital satisfaction have increased at the same time as the divorce rate has been declining.

So, basically, your whole premise is wrong in the first place. But let's move on to the issues you listed that negatively impact men...

- Men get longer sentences: Unfair, you're right. But that's not the fault of feminism. That's the result of a society that views men as more violent and more likely to reoffend. Unfortunately, criminologically speaking, it is TRUE that men's crimes tend to involve more violence and male offenders do tend to be more likely to reoffend... Sorry bro, but that's the truth. And that factors into sentencing. Not to mention, in the vast majority of cases where women commit a violent crime, it is proven to be in self-defense.

- Males are 3 times as likely to commit suicide: Again, totally unfair, and totally true. But not the fault of feminism. In fact, feminism challenges the strict gender roles and ideas about masculinity and femininity that make men more vulnerable to suicide. See, it is toxic masculinity that convinces men that they can't or shouldn't talk about their mental health with loved ones or seek out professional help. This puts them at higher risk of actually committing suicide. Feminism challenges toxic masculinity and wants to free both men AND women from rigid gender expectations.

[Sara413]

- Males suffer 93% of workplace death and men are 54% of the workforce: Again - this is the result of rigid gender expectations, which influences the types of jobs and careers than men and women choose. While feminists do tend to concentrate more closely on encouraging women and girls to branch out into more male-dominated fields, they do also tend to challenge the expectations placed on men to stay away from traditionally feminine careers. "Masculine" careers such as construction, mining and resource development, etc. pose higher risks of severe injury and fatality. The disparity between which careers men and women choose is, once again, not a result of feminism, but something that feminists actively work to change. There is also one other factor involved here, and that is that men tend to have a higher risk tolerance than women and will undertake more dangerous tasks more willingly and with less concern for safety.

[Sara413]

This is something that comes back to toxic masculinity (as well as, let's face it, testosterone to some degree).

- Males make up 93% of the prison population: Again, men tend to be more violent than women as a whole. This is not new, and this is not the result of feminism.

- Males are more likely to be victims of violent crimes: Yes, they do, but they are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violent crime as well. Most men who are murdered are murdered by men, whereas most women who are murdered and also murdered by men. The amount of male-on-female violence completely and utterly dwarf the amount of female-on-male violence in our society.

- Males are also more likely to be murdered: see above.

- Breast cancer funding gets twice as much then Prostate cancer does even though the same amount die: I agree that this is absurd. But it's not like feminists are running around yelling "fuck prostate cancer victims! Breast cancer is the only cancer that matters!!"

[Sara413]

It's just that breast cancer advocates have been very, very successful. I do wish that they would take that success and use it to shine the spotlight on the many other, arguably more serious, cancers out there, including prostate.

- There are way more scholarships for females then there are for males: There are also way more scholarships for ethnic minorities and people from low-income families. As a woman who put myself through university, I will say that while there are many scholarships dedicated specifically to women, most of them involve some requirement for community involvement and leadership. They are tools used to encourage and develop future female leaders in business and politics, etc.

- There are more females in college then there are men: But more men in trade school and apprenticeship programs than women. Comes back to the point above regarding men getting hurt and killed more at work.

- Females are now doing better in public school because public school now goes by

[Sara413]

public school now goes by females standards of learning, thus the male suffers. This is why males grades are now suffering in school: This point I agree one and this is something that must change. I don't think that creating a more inclusive and flexible learning environment is something that most or even any feminists are opposed to.

- Males are more likely to drop out: This comes back to the issue above about school. I have no further points to add.

- Females gentile mutilation is illegal but male circumcision is not: FGM is a very painful procedure that actually robs females of their ability to experience sexual pleasure later on in life, which is not the case with male circumcision. Most guys I know have been circumcised and none of them seem to mind at all - it actually makes it easier to keep the area clean and even lowers a man's risk of contracting various STI's. FGM has no benefits to the females it is performed on and serves only to prevent them from gaining pleasure from

[Sara413]

- Females gentile mutilation is illegal but male circumcision is not: FGM is a very painful procedure that actually robs females of their ability to experience sexual pleasure later on in life, which is not the case with male circumcision. Most guys I know have been circumcised and none of them seem to mind at all - it actually makes it easier to keep the area clean and even lowers a man's risk of contracting various STI's. FGM has no benefits to the females it is performed on and serves only to prevent them from gaining pleasure from sex. They simply are not comparable procedures.

As for marriage being a risk for men - again, the fact that women win custody more often comes back to rigid gender norms, which feminists actively fight against. When women are assumed to be better parents, society will always give custody to a mother over a father. It's totally unfair and sexist, and it's something that feminist ideology actively challenges.

[Sara413]

And yeah, women tend to file for divorce more often than men do, but that could be due to any number of factors which we really don't know. I suspect that part of it may be that men are more reluctant to go through the divorce proceedings and if they are unhappy, they'd rather just go have an affair and deal with their unfulfillment that way.

[Kirah]

Name *one* way in which feminism has actually done something for men. This whole "toxic masculinity" or "eliminate men's issues by eliminating women's issues" myth has gone on long enough.

Name me a few things feminism has directly done for men.

[myTake Owner]

My god woman i can feel your emotions through my computer.
These are FACTS about marriages. If the man fails his contract then the female takes all his money and resources, If the female fails the contract she takes all the money and resources. If both just want to end the contract without failing it by cheating then the women still takes all the money. What kind of man would go into a life long contract that only he would have risk and females have NONE.
It is only feminists, support females leaving the "nuclear family" as they call it. It is feminists who say women should get all the money even if they cheat.

Why would any man logically take a contract where half of marriages fail and he would lose everything no matter what he does, and the females will take everything even if the cheat.

in some states if you find out the child isn't yours and you divorce over that, YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR CHILD SUPPORT AND ALIMONY EVEN IF IT ISN'T YOUR CHILD!!!

[myTake Owner]

Breast cancer funding gets twice as much then Prostate cancer does even though the same amount die: I agree that this is absurd. But it's not like feminists are running around yelling "fuck prostate cancer victims! Breast cancer is the only cancer that matters!!"
funny you say that: www.cdc.gov/.../cdc_fy2016_pb_overview_table.pdf

Now i don't know why obama is wanting to take away funding from the already under funded research. BUT imagine if he wanted to take away funding from breast cancer, you people would be up in arms.

I want you to understand i NEVER blamed feminism for any of those stats of crimes and deaths and REAL systematic bias. I pointed out that Feminism is not about "equality" it is about power for females over men. It is about control
If your so against rape how come i never see females protesting to the fact that more males get raped then females when including prison assualts? Where is your feminists giving a fuck about men dying left and right?
You feminists couldn't care less about males.

[myTake Owner]

This is where feminism is today: www.youtube.com/watch

"air conditioning is sexist"

[myTake Owner]

get the fuck out of here with your "toxic masculinity" gender is not a "social construct" i have no reason to act like a female. I am naturally masculine, with out "trying" or being "raised to be masculine"
Our brains are wired differently and we are physically differently, unless of course you would like to argue with science.
What IS destroying males is putting them up to the female standard of behavior.
You are so spoiled.

[Sara413]

When feminists say toxic masculinity, we don't mean that masculinity itseld is toxic, but that the rigid expectations placed on men about what constitutes masculinity are toxic.

But you're not here to actually engage in a dialogue about how men and women are both hurt by traditional gender roles and expectations.. you're here to assert your manliness and blame feminists for your problems instead of trying to solve then.

Please, continue. I'll fuck right off and outta your way.

[myTake Owner]

explain how is it you don't mean that "toxic masculinity" does not mean"masculinity is toxic"
that's amazing mental gymnastics.
and please explain how i am "inserting" my masculinity?
You are the one who is inserting her childish bitchiness on to me. Just because i pointed out facts of marriage laws and pointing out that feminists are vile creatures and will never find a man that they love doesn't mean i inserted my masculinity?
what does masculinity mean to you?
And you're 29, things are not exactly looking up for you, i hope you can figure things out before you lose your beauty. Cause your brains and personality is very lacking.

[alb84]

Sorry for the intrusion, but, if you are going to talk about circumcision in such a “pleasant” way… at least I hope that you have seen the procedure, if not, look at this vid (real surgery... you've been warned).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjUCR44qZLE

you think it's ok, to make this the first life experience in a baby? besides, the foreskin has around 20.000 nerve endings, the clitoris has 8000, now, tell me how this makes no difference XD The reason why most guys you know don't mind it is because they haven't experienced anything else; you cannot miss, what you never had. If you are interested in the risks and consequences, read this (some babies even die...)

www.psychologytoday.com/.../myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe

And no, there are actually no benefits from circumcision (unless there is a malformation in the foreskin). it's just a savage practice, and honestly, I think it's very hipocritical of you to be against fgm, and not against circumcision... no offense, but I'm against the two, and I don't even try to rationalize about which one is worst, that's the difference

[Sara413]

It's cute that you assume I'm lonely and unhappy. I'm actually in a healthy and happy relationship and balancing a decent career.

Not gonna bother even engaging the rest of your "points" since there's no point in debating someone who cannot even grasp the a concept as basic as toxic masculinity not meaning all masculinity Is toxic, after having it literally spelled out for you...

Enjoy being bitter.

[myTake Owner]

So you don't want to explain what exactly is toxic about masculinity? what masculinity did i thrust upon you?

There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity" this is something someone learns in gender studies where it has absolutly no use or meaing in the real world.
It's hilarious to see you feminists "debate" it's just emotional arguemnts about how your "operessed" and the men owe you something.
tell me how do you thingk as a feminist that you were opressed when men during early 1800 and before would go out to dangerous jobs that would kill, such as construction and other hard labour jobs that i just don't see females wanting or lining up to do. It was men who would go out and risk themselves while being expected to do so without a problem, and women would stay home and take care of the children. Oh the opression. What about drafts where men were forced to fight in wars? It's men who died for women in history.
Hell remmeber the titanic? "women and children first"...

[hellionthesage]

Actually statistics show that at a 50% divorce rate (80% of are filed by women) we are at an all time high. Studies have shown women are actually less happy now then they where in the 50s. Longer sentences are due to feminisim since feminist are the ones claiminig men are evil violent oppressors, ever heard of the duluth model of domestic violence? Originally it was believed that both men and women could be equally violent, then feminist created the primary aggressor variant or the duluth model that stated only men are violent towards women (ironic really considering all data from the CDC, FBI, and other groups suggest women are probably far more violent to there partners and children then men are). Feminist pushed for the primary care giver laws that give women full custody of children (National Organisation for Women) The fact that no male issue has been addressed and has been out right dismissed by feminist, like what your doing, shows you to be wrong.

[hellionthesage]

Also feminist address society as if it is comprised of all men instead of men and women firmly planting all responsibility on the shoulders of men while painting women as victims thus creating even greater stigmatization of males ie sexism. Male suicide is due to a society that has marginalized them to an extreme degree which is why they make up 80% of suicide victims. 4x higher then women, and it doubles to 8x after divorce. They make up the majority of work place deaths because social construcst created by society which involves women. This compounded by the fact that men are being pushed out of other sectors by women and our quotas for women from fields usually dominated by men, such quotas that do not exist for men in fields predominatley composed of women. No feminist has ever helped men. This is fact, if you can prove otherwise I would like to see the evidence.

[VampireEmpress]

wow, that's interesting about the divorce rate! can you show me where you got that from? I might email it to someone.

[Sara413]

@vampireempress

mobile.nytimes.com/.../...t-the-myth-lives-on.html

[VampireEmpress]

thank you! the ny times is awesome.

[heavensgift2girls]

I can say that on the issue of public education, their are feminists that are actually active in changing education are against doing anything that will help males. There are many different types of feminists and some really are pure evil that hate males. One study found that removing phonics from being taught hurt boys and girls, however it hurt boys more. The result was that for a while they stopped teaching phonics in some places just to put boys at a disadvantage. There are extremest groups within feminism that really are hurting a lot of men and any attempt to stop these "feminists" gets people accused of being against feminism and equality and all sorts of nonsense. That makes it very difficult to stop the more extreme feminists.

[evenlift]

Feminists do not campaign for men. They often even refuse merely to stay neutral.

Well, the marriage rate has been in decline. A 'career' under the regulatory-welfare state is just glorified welfare. A career is something you earn. It's not when Daddy Government puts a gun to the heads of employers, forcing them to hire you or to pay you a particular amount. If you support genuine careers for women, you will support a free market, which not-so-coincidentally almost all feminists oppose.

So, being told from birth that you oppress women is not going to destroy your self-esteem? Being raised in a politically correct, feminist way that makes you unattractive to the opposite sex is not going to destroy your self-esteem? The irony is, you imply that you want men to speak about their feelings, but you and your fellow women fly into a rage when a man like Take Owner does. Feminism doesn't liberate anyone. I disagree with Take Owner on his implication that feminism is radically different...

[evenlift]

... from traditionalism. It isn't. Feminism, like traditionalism, entails women's dependence on men. The difference is that, while the old dependence, under traditionalism, was the consensual dependence of women on their husbands through marriage, the new dependence, under feminism, is the non-consensual dependence of women on men in general through the regulatory-welfare state.

[vishna]

@Sara413 thank you for your response. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[myTake Owner]

the article about that divorce is written by a feminist: https://twitter.com/clairecm
or Claire Cain Miller.
You can't be using emotional biased arguments from feminists who want to tell lie to women that marriage is possible for all women in america.
also there are more women then men in america. Combine that with all the things i said about most men not wanting to marry, basically you got yourself a wishful statement.

[katley]

That's because women and men are not getting married... They are just living together..."So there a decline in your opinion"... Doesn't mean, marriage is working... It isn't, in my opinion.

[Rawrzz]

GirlWritesWhat.

[ManOnFire]

Actually, women call for divorce 80% of the time.

[jacquesvol]

A graph:

www.vanneman.umd.edu/socy441/trends/divorce.jpg

[Djaaay]

I know you have a lot of up votes here and you feel strong at the moment , although , I would like to mention something. Your right in some aspects , and wrong in others. First of all , the word (feminism) that your using is incorrect to your claim. If you would have used (equalitarian ) you would have been right. Im sorry... feminism and equalatarism is two different things. I know you from other exerts and I know you aren't a feminist. So let's get this straight.

[AskFrank]

There seems to be a lot of feminism arguments on this site. I never new there was such a anti feminist movement. I personally can't say whether what you said is true or false. But I do know in the past women couldn't vote. They couldn't get a job. If there husbands beat them they couldn't do a thing because there wasn't protection from the law. They couldn't leave because they couldn't support themselves.
I'm glad things have gotten better for women. I was always head of household bread winner in my home. My wife and I decided to swap that role and we both are much happier. I by nature have a much more dominant personality and we can and some times do switch back when need be. But a female led household for some people are awesome and I love it.
I hate all this anti feminist crap. My wife isn't a man hater she is very loving.
She is a registered nurse with a college degree. She makes a good hourly wage and I make twice per hour then she makes. I never went to college and didn't even graduate from high school and it was my choice to not finish school.
If all these anti fem men would get off there butts and apply themselves they wouldn't have time to care about entitlements and what there not getting or how unfare there being treated.

[AskFrank]

Oh and why are these posts always from anonymous posters

[myTake Owner]

Feminst didn't didn't do anything for the vote, suffragists did.
Women have had jobs since the beginning of time and including int he 1700's and 1800's
and it was illegal for anyone to physically hurt anyone else, and you would face punishment for that. That was Law.

and honestly i believe you are lying about you having a wife or any of that.
i mean look at your pic... you are totally a beta bitch.

what entitlements are we getting here?

[AskFrank]

And your a loser looking for some one to blame

[myTake Owner]

You may say that i am trying to blame someone else.
but what i stated is fact, men lose everything no matter what they do in marriage.
And you lied about having a wife and that weird story..
seriously go beta male somewhere else, loser ass leashed up fool.

[AskFrank]

I don't know what entitlements your getting. I know I'm not getting any because I don't need any

[myTake Owner]

haha
oh my.
so i am entitled yet you don't know what entitlements i am "taking" ok.

[AskFrank]

Ok you win. Don't get married or what ever you want or don't want to do.
I joined this site because it looked fun. I just hate all the hate posters on here like you.
I'm going to have fun and let you sit here and argue. Lol
Loser

[AskFrank]

Out. no more from me

[myTake Owner]

oh no a 52 year old man calling me a loser on a young adult and teen site.
I'm getting mad.
Have fun.

[hellionthesage]

Woman couldn't vote, but neither could men. They didn't get the right to vote unitl about 1850s and that was directly due to the draft. They argued that if they where expected to die for there country then they should have a say in how its run. Then 70 years later (a single lifetime) women got the right to vote, only they didn't have to die to get it. Feminist actually where holding up the vote for women do to incidents of arsen and such. They could and did work, however there where certain jobs that did go to men over women, however this was do to the simple fact that men where by law and society expected to take care of families women where not. Giving a job to a woman meant feeding her, giving a job to a man meant feeding him, his wife, and his children, and most likely his parents hence the priority. Violence against women usually resulted in public floggings unless they where linched first. For men abused by there wives, they would be placed on a horse or carriage and marched

[hellionthesage]

through the streets while towns people threw whatever they could find at him. In france it was called riding the donkey backwards. The term for a man being abused by his wife was called henpecked, in order to trivialize the abuse. Women couldn't own land but only if they where married other wise they could do as they wished. The reason was because her husband was legally bound to pay taxes on any of her property and as such had to have the privildge of dictating what that property was used for since he was the one who would go to jail if taxes where not paid on her land, not her. The same thing whent for debts, he would and could be imprisoned if he did not pay off his wifes debt. Woman could in fact leave there husbands thanks to alimoney which is a very old law. The fact was legally divorce could only be initiated if there was justifiable cause, like her husband not properly supporting her or abuse on his part. 80% of divorces are filed by women the most sited reason being no fault.

[AskFrank]

Ratified on August 18, 1920, the 19th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution granted American women the right to vote—a right known as woman suffrage. At the time the U. S. was founded, its female citizens did not share all of the same rights as men, including the right to vote.

[AskFrank]

1776 Only people who own land can vote
Declaration of Independence signed. Right to vote during the Colonial and Revolutionary periods is restricted to property owners—most of whom are white male Protestants over the age of 21

[AskFrank]

Under the common law legal doctrine known as coverture, a married woman in Great Britain's North American colonies and later in the United States had hardly any legal existence apart from her husband. Her rights and obligations were subsumed under his. She could not own property, enter into contracts, or earn a salary.[1] Over several decades, beginning in 1839, statutes that enabled women to control real and personal property, participate in contracts and lawsuits, inherit independently of their husbands, work for a salary, and write wills were enacted, more often motivated by concerns for family integrity and protecting a household from economic crisis more than by a liberal conception of the role of women in society. Change came in piecemeal fashion. As late as 1867 a decision of the Supreme Court of Illinois in Cole v. Van Riper noted that "It is simply impossible that a married woman should be able to control and enjoy her property as if she were sole, without practically leaving her at liberty to annul the marriage."[2] According to one analysis, the legislation came in three phases—allowing married women to own property, then to keep their own income, then to engage in business—and advanced more quickly in the West just as female suffrage did.[2]

[Rawrzz]

Here here! /winning. You know. When I was a stupid, stupid teenager, I thought if I ever had a kid, I would want her to be a girl. I found that odd when I started reading about feminism. "If men are so much more advantaged, then why did I always want to have a little girl?" 'Cause even back then, I could see the advantages of being female.

Egalitarianist pro-gender-equality, antifeminism.

Males will slowly stop getting married. Before, the benefit to marriage was being the respected head of the household. Now, the benefit is the chance to lose half your income and assets along with your children, if you have them; and being viewed as an incompetent fool who can never do enough for his family. Where exactly is the benefit? I get way more of a benefit by sleeping around, staying with one chick long enough to experience a bit of love and a bit of sex, then move on to the next one. That's how I'm naturally designed, so it works out perfectly.

Why, exactly, would I want to subject myself to marriage? There is hardly any benefit for me, in that.

Male value is going down and female value is going up up up; further, female self-value is skyrocketing beyond what their actual worth is.

But, most men just willingly sacrifice themselves. That's how it's always been. Our biological job is to protect women. That's what we've always tried to do--now, it's called oppression. No respect at all for the sacrifices men made to protect women in history, just a seething rage at the injustices of women not being allowed to go to war (oh, oops, I meant have 'freedom) or work in the hot sun.

How many women would have willingly chose to get that small amount of relative freedom in return for working in the hot sun, a mine, or being forced to go to war? I think women knew they had a good thing going. In a history splattered with the blood of fallen dictators, of oppressed people rising up against their overlords, why were women the only ones to never revolt? Is there any more solid proof of women's innate inferiority? Luckily, I'm not a feminist, so I don't believe that. If feminism is based on the idea that women have been oppressed for millennia, then women were the only group too weak to do anything about it. Or? Did women just know they had a good thing going? "Let them work themselves to the bone and get slaughtered in war." And men were happy to do it. When we were respected for our sacrifices.

[myTake Owner]

I'm loving how females are downvoting this.
They don't understand that they have no say in what we decide to think of marriage, and a lot of them are commenting on it like they are offended at the very thought of men not wanting marriage.
I guess their individuality and "i'm a strong women, who needs no man" rhetoric isn't as strong willed when told that there will be less men available to marry in america then ever was before.

[Rawrzz]

Wow. That's a lot of downvotes. o. o;; I wasn't tactful enough, I guess. I'm not loving how they're downvoting. :/ I want them to understand. We need to change some things.

But, they'll get it eventually when males just refuse to get married anymore. And, maybe they'll think about this when their boyfriends refuse to get married. Probably not. But, even still, there will be quite a few males who will still get married, because they also simply don't understand. They've also been indoctrinated by the idea of soulmates and happily-ever-afters. Hopefully, everyone will notice as time goes on.

Myself, even. You know. I never even thought about my own rights. I was always so concerned with female rights--because that's what everyone talks about. And, some more people talk about male gender roles today, but it's still almost completely focused on women. As always.

[myTake Owner]

I'm sure there will be "plenty" but it will be the lowest amount in American history, and Europe will have the same effects.
It will be a shock for a lot.
And again, females disagreeing with this has no value. It's just them projecting their disapproval.

[heavensgift2girls]

The problem is that feminism is a female advocacy movement, but people don't agree with how to advocate for females. To make this problem worse, feminism is treated as if it is a single movement, which it clearly is not.

I know people might argue about what feminism means, but their different definitions will only prove me right. There are many different branches of feminism. Many of which are in direct conflict with one another. These different types of feminists all claim to be real feminists, and that the other types of feminists aren't real feminists. I also know people that consider anyone a feminist that believe in equal opportunity.

This means that no matter what a guy does, there will always be a different type of feminist there telling him how sexist he is and how the patriarchy is still a problem, and all of the other nonsense we are tired of hearing.

This is something that actually happened to me.

I was asked by a feminist if I thought women should be allowed to go topless. I answered "No" and was chewed out for being sexist, having double standards, trying to control what a woman did with her body, and was the reason we still needed feminism.

Later I was asked by another feminist if I thought women should be allowed to go topless. I didn't want to get chewed out so I said "Yes". She called me a pervert that just wanted to sexulaize women because I saw them as objects, and that I was the reason we still need feminism.

Later I was asked by a third feminist if I thought women should be allowed to go topless. I decided I wasn't going to be a part of this again and said. "I don't care." She yelled at me for not caring about women's issues, and that I was the reason we still need feminism.

So you see, currently no matter what a guy says or does, there is some type of feminist in our face trying to use feminism as a weapon against us, by acting like the feminism they believe in, speaks for all feminists. It shouldn't be surprising that guys are starting to get sick of always being treated like the bad guy, by the "feminists" he is encountering.

These feminists aren't even the extremists. They are just average feminists that have different ideas about how feminism should be trying to help women.

[Jeffrey625625]

I'd think that the problem is that women tend to think more emotionally and impulsively during anger and hate stages. It also seems that they hold grudges stronger which prevents them from thinking in a logical and equal point of view from both genders. The only reason why feminism is rising is because we have the Internet and new things that give them an actual voice without speaking in public. Same goes for passive-aggressive people. Back then, to solve a problem, you had to confront the problem. Nowadays, you don't need that because you can "pussy" out and go rant and complain about the problem on some website. In conclusion, passive-aggressive people were too afraid of confronting the problem because they didn't have a "voice"(guts), but now that they have a voice, they use that voice to speak out to others for support instead of attempting to solve the problem.
This is an example of such problem: www.buzzfeed.com/.../people-are-congratulating-this-diner-owner-after-she-screame

[Kiwedin]

I agree on the part that men face struggles as well and don't get as much support for these problems, but I also think it's because we don't have as much men fighting for these rights in the way that women have for theirs. Most of these rape hotlines and support systems for women are founded by other women who have faced struggles of their own as well. So, if this is something you feel strongly about, why don't you advocate for male rape hotlines, et cetera, or fight to make the existing one's available to both genders? I think that would be a great idea. I think that because women were so oppressed in the past that we overcompensated a little when it comes to certain things, especially laws surrounding divorce, alimony, and child custody which totally screws over men. I know somebody who's driving himself crazy because of the $3000.00 he owes his ex-wife in alimony every single month and it's absolutely ridiculous. At the same time, it's part of the gender roles we give to men and women, which totally suck as well. We as a society see men as strong, dominant, and protective and see women as weak, submissive, and nurturing. These gender roles leave us with preconceived notions of people based on their gender alone, so Judges assume the divorce was not caused by the woman and they believe that women are nurturer's and are therefore better qualified to take care of the children, and blah blah, but the whole jail sentencing is due to years of psychological studies done on men and women. Women tend to respond better to rehabilitation than men do, and men tend to respond to negative stimuli better than women do, so that's what they've implemented into the justice system we use today. It's not perfect, but giving a psych evaluation to every single inmate would take too much time and money so it's easier to stick them into whatever group they belong to. So I totally see where your coming from, but I don't agree with the view of women that you have. You're perpetuating the same negative gender roles and stereotypes that screw over both men and women and it only broadens the divide between the two existing groups. Also, your idea of what marriage looks like seems pretty stuck in the 1950s. Stay at home mom's are becoming increasingly rare, and I honestly cannot think of any family that I know who still lives like this. Usually, both parents work and split the parenting and housework evenly, at least that's what I've witnessed in my lifetime.

[Anonymous]

Lists like these look at numbers but not the whole picture as to why the numbers are so high. Here's why blaming feminism is wrong:

1."Females get shorter sentences for the same exact crime than males. "
This was only found in federal criminal cases. After estimating the amount of disparity left unexplained by the arrest offense and other control variables, the paper explores "why these gaps exist—and, in particular, whether unobserved differences between men and women might justify them." Prof. Starr explores several potential mitigating factors, such as the "girlfriend theory" (that "[w]omen might be viewed as…mere accessories of their male romantic partners"), the role of women as primary caregivers to their children, and the "theory that female defendants receive leniency because they are more cooperative with the government." Although each of these theories found some support in the data, they did not appear capable of explaining anything close to the total disparity that Prof. Starr found.
www.law.umich.edu/.../...r_gender_disparities.aspx

Past studies have also found that minority men are, on average, given longer prison sentences than white men convicted of the same crimes.
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...r-gap_n_1874742.html

2. "Males are 3 times as likely to commit suicide"
Why are men more likely to die by suicide, even though women have the higher percent of trying, also known as, The gender paradox in suicide? It’s principally a question of method. Women who attempt suicide tend to use nonviolent means, such as overdosing. Men often use firearms or hanging, which are more likely to result in death.
www.theguardian.com/.../suicide-gender-men-women-mental-health-nick-clegg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9560163

3, "Males suffer 93% of workplace death and men are 54% of the workforce"
As of 2013, for work place injuries 93% were men & 7% women. More fatal work injuries resulted from transportation incidents than from any other event in 2013. Roadway incidents alone accounted for nearly one out of every four fatal work injuries.

Homicides were a much higher proportion of fatal work injuries to women than to men. A higher percentage of fatalities to women also resulted from roadway incidents. Men incurred a higher proportion of injuries from falls, slips, and trips; contact with objects and equipment; and exposure to harmful substances or environments. Private construction had the highest count of fatal injuries in 2013, but the agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting sector had the highest fatal work injury rate.

So the number for male workplace injuries is so high, because they are found in male dominated fields.
https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0012.pdf

[Opinion Owner]

4. Males make up 93% of the prison population - That percentage is from 2009. The most current numbers are: Male prisoners increased from 1,461,600 in 2012 to 1,463,500in 2013 (up 1,800). Female prisoners increased from 108,800 in 2012 to 111,300 in 2013 (up 2,500).

On December 31, 2013, about 37% of imprisoned males were black, 32% were white, and 22% were Hispanic. Among females in state or federal prison at year end 2013, 49% were white, compared to 22% who were black and 17% who were Hispanic.

So a better question is why are so many black males and white women incarcerated?
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p09.pdf

[Opinion Owner]

For 5 & 6: Many professionals have offered explanations for this sex difference in crimes. Some differing explanations include men's evolutionary tendency toward risk and violent behavior, sex differences in activity, social support, and gender inequality. Rowe, Vazsonyi, and Flannery (1995) demonstrated that rations of self reported delinquent acts are higher for men than women across many different actions thus supporting the fact that men commit more criminal acts than women.[1] Burton, et al. (1998) found that low levels of self control are associated with criminal activity. Furthermore, the nature of the crime itself must be considered.

5. Males are more likely to be victims of violent crimes - Men are killing other men.
6. Males are also more likely to be murdered - Males committed the vast majority of homicides in the United States at that time, representing 90.5% of the total number of offenders. Men are killing other men.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime

[Opinion Owner]

7. Breast cancer funding gets twice as much then Prostate cancer does even though the same amount die - Did it ever occur to you both genders are affected by breast cancer and women do not get prostate cancer?

8. There are way more scholarships for females then there are for males - Females are still a minority. Those scholarships are there to offset the difference. They were created years ago & are still needed today. No one is stopping men from creating their own organizations & giving out scholarships.

[Opinion Owner]

9. There are more females in college then there are men - According to U. S. Department of Education information, men make up only 44% of college applicants. Colleges can’t accept students who don’t apply. But why do fewer men even bother applying to college in the first place?

Men are more likely to drop out of high school than women in nearly all states, though by varying degrees and with low-income and minority men much more likely to drop out than all other students. Even those who stay in school may not see college as an option. Male students are less likely to take AP courses and exams, which have long been used to earn college credit hours before enrolling in college.

It should also be noted that the national male-female ratio for 18-24 year olds is actually 51-49, meaning there are more (traditionally) college-aged males than females.

[Opinion Owner]

More and more older Americans are heading back to school, often part time or in the evenings, and their rate of enrollment is rising faster than students of typical college age. In 2009, students aged 25 and older accounted for roughly 40 percent of all college and graduate students, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.

www.forbes.com/.../
collegestats.org/.../
www.nbcnews.com/.../back-school-older-students-rise-college-classrooms-n191246

10. Females are now doing better in public school because public school now goes by females standards of learning, thus the male suffers. This is why males grades are now suffering in school ~ Where are you citing this from?

[Opinion Owner]

11. Males are more likely to drop out - Low-income, black, and Hispanic men are less likely to go to college and often much less likely to graduate than women from these same groups. For these men, trouble in education may start early with many attending schools with greater numbers of novice teachers, fewer classroom resources, and fewer college preparatory courses. Minority men are also much more likely to get suspended. Research shows that 59% of black males and 42% of Hispanic males report being suspended, compared with just 26% of white males.

collegestats.org/.../

According to a new paper in the journal Gender & Society, men are more likely than women to leave school rather than take on more loans. Women are more likely to finish their degrees, even if that means graduating with a higher debt burden. The research suggests that student debt may help explain a significant but poorly understood trend in recent years:

[Opinion Owner]

Women are not only enrolling in college at higher rates than men, they’re also more likely to graduate.

blogs.wsj.com/.../

12. Females gentile mutilation is illegal but male circumcision is not.

Male circumcision, really? That would violate religious rights. So are you saying Jewish people and any other religion should not be allowed to follow the guidelines of their religion?

[Opinion Owner]

Divorce:
Divorce is handled on individual bases not as a whole. Men are able to file for divorce & receive custody of their children. You would have an argument if men weren't able to file for divorce & receive custody of their children,

State laws vary as to what courts must consider in determining custody arrangements, but the general standard used today is that the custody award must be in the “best interests of the child." There was once a presumption that children should always stay with their mother following a divorce. Most states no longer honor that presumption, however.

[Opinion Owner]

In fact, some states have passed laws stating that there is no custody preference for women over men, example, the state of Maryland “abandoned by statute in 1974 the so-called ‘maternal preference doctrine,’ under which children were presumed to belong with their mother.”The state’s position was affirmed in 1998 by the Court of Appeals, Maryland’s highest court, which ruled that the state constitution’s Equal Rights Amendment prohibits custody determinations derived through gender-based preferences.

www.divorcenet.com/.../divorce-for-men-why-women-get-child-custody-over-80-time

[badboymacho]

MRA, MGTOW and MRM. All appeared when this wave of feminism appeared. Men are generally OK with how things are but feminism pushed to far and now men are retaliating because enough is enough, especially from those men hating feminazis.

[myTake Owner]

These are horrible debates.
1) You didn't actually say anything aside from providing a link that says that professor star points out that there are major differences in sentences and is asked what should be done and responds with "is not necessarily to lock up a lot more women, but perhaps to reconsider the decision-making criteria that are applied to men. About one in every fifty American men is currently behind bars, and we could think about gender disparity as perhaps being a key dimension of that problem."

2) "even though women are higher percent of trying" I don't understand what you tried achieving with this logic? Because "trying and failing" a suicide means that they are less depressed and to a point of suicide then men who actually do it.
your reason as to why men do it more because of "pills" is not even sourced

3) so again you provide nothing but basically excuses as to why it's ok that men are dying at such high amount at the workplace

[myTake Owner]

4) All you did was try to brush it off as a racial issue and not a male issue.
You're not going to win by trying to switch the subject into race. It's males, no matter what color they are, they are males. and they are 93% of the prison population

and the last comment about that bullshit with kids because 90% of all divorced mothers have custody of their children.

[myTake Owner]

www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/
here is the source for divorce stats like "90% of all women who are divorced have custody of their children"

[Opinion Owner]

1. "Females get shorter sentences for the same exact crime than males. "
My link gives you the correct source & where the information came from. It is important to know that those figures were only found through federal crimes, because federal crimes is not the only type of crimes being prosecuted. It also gives reason as to why women are sometimes given shorter sentences for federal crimes and it does point out the structure of prosecuting needs to be changed. Let's not overlook that Prof. Star is a woman.
www.law.umich.edu/.../...r_gender_disparities.aspx

2."Males are 3 times as likely to commit suicide"
Why are men more likely to die by suicide, even though women have the higher percent of trying, also known as, The gender paradox in suicide? It’s principally a question of method. Women who attempt suicide tend to use nonviolent means, such as overdosing. Men often use firearms or hanging, which are more likely to result in death.

[Opinion Owner]

Those are words from the actual study. Women try to commit suicide more but men are more successful at completing it due to their choices of using firearms or hanging. "Gender paradox in suicide" is an actual term, that's why I supplied the links to where my information was found.
www.theguardian.com/.../suicide-gender-men-women-mental-health-nick-clegg
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9560163

3. "Males suffer 93% of workplace death and men are 54% of the workforce"
Once again, this was not my words, these are not excuses but facts, cut & pasted from the source ~ the U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, U. S. Department of Labor, 2015. The charts simplify the information to better understand it, pg.8-10.

The total fatal work injuries for 2013 were: 4585 93% Men & 7% Women
The highest amount was from construction 828, transportation & warehousing 733, agriculture/forestry/fishing/&hunting 500- all male dominated fields that carry the highest risks of injury or death

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0012.pdf

[Opinion Owner]

4. Males make up 93% of the prison population
This is a totally different issue, it is a racial issue that does not pertain to all men. #BlackLivesMatter ~ does that not ring a bell to you?

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p09.pdf

5. Divorce
"90% of divorced mothers have custody of their children" you left the ending off. It's actually, 90% of divorced mothers have custody of their children (even if they did not receive it in court).

This is an example of when people find figures & run with it.

Original Source: Published in 1997 By Kathleen O'Connell Corcoran in article titled "Psychological and Emotional Aspects of Divorce"

https://www.mediate.com/articles/psych.cfm

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that "feminism" is just an American thing. America has the world's largest divorce rate, mainly because wives usually can steal literally a chunk of a man's money legally through court. I actually agree with the suicide "fact", a person who actually plans suicide will show no signs or warnings. Just by gender nature, a woman is more *likely* to let out stress by words and emotion, while a man is a bit different. A man tends to either forget it and move on which allows stress to build up, or he goes raging to feel better and let it out. Which, eventually leads to 2 things from 2 types of men, 1 will commit suicide out of the blue and 1 will be living with anger issues. Although this article has a point, *I really don't think we should be giving a f*ck, because all it creates is hate between both genders.* Eventually there will be enough hate between both genders in America, that marriage rates will plummet insanely, and gender crimes will be more common.
Now back to the divorce discussion, it seems to be a culture thing for America. It seems stupid to me that if you're going to get married and still not be able to handle relationship problems, maybe you shouldn't have married so early. The idea that impulsive relationships are becoming more and more common, gives me the thought that generations are slowly becoming unable to solve relationship problems. Cheating is a huge factor in divorces, but it really does not justify an instant divorce. It just shows the love bond has not been strong enough to withhold a true marriage. If cheating is prevalent, it shows that communication is not strong enough. If, say you want a different sex partner just one night, you both can go and experiment for one night. If one doesn't agree, then create a compromise or rationalize why such partner would not want their's to be f*cking another person. It's simple thought and solve. Of course, you will not be able to do that during the climax of an emotional argument, but there is always a stage of regret. If one partner plays the "silent" game for far too long ("recovery"), they they're not mature enough to handle a serious relationship. Life has all sorts of problems, it's just how you solve them that creates your experience.

[sxphs]

Even without feminism, she can still cheat and take your money. It's been done before. What I will point out is that a real man at his root is a feminist. He believes his partner is equal to him and deserves his respect and love. His wife will in return love and care for him in the same fashion. A respectful, loving relationship goes two ways. A relationship without feminism on the behalf of the husband means a relationship where the husband does not respect his wife, which leads to domestic violence and abuse.

You say "A relationship is a two way street", and I agree with you on that. That is exactly what feminism is saying- that women should be able to make the choice whether to work or stay home. It gives her the autonomy to choose to stay home, rather than forcing her to.

What would the world be like if there was no feminism? Imagine your wife developing depression because she has no life outside embroidery and changing diapers and committing suicide. Or your sister who was raped on her way to the grocery store and is now shamed because she's a "slut" and has no honour.

The feminist movement has its foibles. But don't forget to discern between real feminism and misandry, and know the root intent and history of the movement.

[hellionthesage]

What is that history might I ask? Also thank you for the "real man" talk, I'm sure if men spouted on about "real women" they would be taken seriously and not viewed as sexist. The fact is feminist have done nothing for any one but themselves if you can provide evidence to the contrary I would welcome it, believe me being hated and accused of being the root cause of all problems, accused of being violent/rapist because of my genitals while being told how benevolent and perfect women are, because of there gentitals gets really old. It gets old being told that men oppressed women despite the fact that even a cursory glance at history shows that the only people who where dying where men, that men where punished for harming women, and men where punished for allowing women to harm them (it was reffered to as riding the donkey backwards in france). That men where financially obligated to pay and support women regardless of there or the womans capabilities.

[hellionthesage]

If you can prove empiricly that men are as worthless and evil as feminist say they are (they do say they are, every major feminst lobbist has placed blame squarley on men and to be a feminist is to believe that all men oppressed all women and there fore where sociopaths and evil) then please prove it, at least that way when a feminist and women in general attack me, my brothers, my father, my nephews at least there would be some justification for it. Because I am tired of being hated and treated like I'm worthless. All I see is a world where women have all the power all the control and I am nothing, my problems don't matter because I am a man, and this is the world my nephews are going to grow up in, where they are hated and mistreated for no reason other then there gender.

[Sara413]

Feminists don't say men are worthless or evil. I'd know - I fucking am one...

Feminism focuses on the ways that a traditionally male dominated society has hurt and in many ways continues to hurt women. In no way is that saying that all men, or even a majority of men, are part of the problem. Every group has it's wingnuts and I don't doubt that if you decide you want to believe that feminists as a group despise men and want to turn the tables of oppression onto them, you can find a handful of women who call themselves fwminist who spew that type of garbage, but if you have any capacity to think critically you will understand that those women do not represent fwminism, just like the WBC doesn't represent Christianity and ISIS doesn't represent Islam.

Feminists do focus most of our energy on bringing attention to problems faced by womwn, but we don't pretend men don't have problems too, and we certainly don't want to hurt men. We want to work together with men.

[myTake Owner]

All traditional male societies in history has always protected the female. When men would go out to work in harsh and deadly jobs it was the females that would stay home and take care of the children, It was the men who experienced more death by work, crime, and war.
these evil societies would even have drafts or forced recruitment of soldiers to ship to war, while the poor oppressed women would stay at home.
This is feminism today, "air conditioners are sexist" :www.youtube.com/watch

[myTake Owner]

Do you remember when the titanic was sinking, and what was said when the emergency evacuation of passengers began? Well it was the sexist comments of "Women and children first" ohh the oppression
and that has been the standard in a male dominated society, to sacrifice ourselves to the women.

[Sara413]

We recognize that rigid ideals about gender negatively impact men too, and that a lot of the violence and the hatred between men and women is rooted in toxic ideas about what constitutes a man and what constitutes a woman. When men are discouraged from childhood to show emotion, when they are taught that being a man means they have to act tough all the time and they have to be big and strong and they have to earn more money than their spouse and talking about mental illness makes them weak and the million other ways boys are conditioned to deny so much of their humanity in the name of "masculinity", it's no wonder they kill themselves amd take bigger risks and have difficulty relating to women and, some of them, take their resentment out on women through violence or subjugation. We're ALL hurt by this. Feminism exists to help free ALL of us frkm restrictive and unhealthy gender norms. That doesn't mean that masculinity is bad - it's not - but when the box that defines masculinity

[Sara413]

Is rigid and stifling, it's problematic for men and women. The reality is, when people of either gender feel free to be themselves and to choose their own roles in society, in their family, etc, they're happier and healthier. Men amd women in egalitarian relationships tend to be happier and feel more secure and that's a good thing.

[myTake Owner]

Again that is your personal opinion. I have no problem risking my life or taking my life for my woman if it will save her. It comes natural to me and other men, we are the protectors and providers.
There is nothing toxic to you, the only ones suffering here is us. Females are privileged creatures throughout history.
So don't come in here trying to spew your gender studies and "gender is a social construct" bullshit.
We are different, our brains are wired differently, our bodies are different.
And you keep saying its a problem for men AND women. I don't see how us dying first or for you is a problem for women. Excuse me for being a man and believing in the good ol' traditional values of marriage and taking burden off women.

[Rawrzz]

You're entirely right. But, what happens after women already have rights and we maintain feminist ideology? Isn't that a one way street? Much unlike what you've stated is preferable? What if we always focus on females? What if we always try to make things better for females? Don't males get at least a little bit left out in that?

What's the difference between feminism and egalitarianism, and why do you choose feminism over egalitarianism?

In my opinion, at the root of feminism, isn't it entirely one-way? The very word, itself, is only concerned with one thing: females. No? I completely agree that that was entirely necessary at the start of feminism, when women weren't allowed basic freedoms. But, is it really true now?

Feminists will claim that 'real feminists' care about men, too. But, the word has no place for males. The *very name* is only concerned with one thing, no? So why not egalitarianism, instead? Why not focus on human rights, instead of female rights?

[myTake Owner]

I have to disagree about their "rights"

Honestly, would you choose to work on some metal brigade during the industrial revolution where 1 in 5 men died, and a serious number of them injured. Or live in a house taking care of children and living by these "rules for women". Just because they had these rules and different culture, doesn't mean that they were oppressed by any means. They didn't go to war and die by the millions.
When i mention these facts, they always seem to back down.

[VampireEmpress]

@Take Owner maybe you should read up on how husbands in the 50s would discipline their wives. I don't know if I totally believe it, but I've had friends tell me it's true.

[Lolomon]

So much of what you have said irritates me The amount of women who report false rapes, are no where near the amount of women who have been raped but have no case against the rape for lack of physical evidence (semen). Not even talking about the amount of women who dont report rape, and those numbers are staggering. Men have a higher rate of suicides , this is true but if you have ever taken a psychology and learned about the male sex brain you know that they are 3x's as likely to suffer from mental illnesses than women i. e depression. dysphoria, Schizophrenia.. just to name a few. Women have higher IQ's , have better jobs and are going to college more than men. Well, because women have more opportunities today and women aren't having children and opting not to marry , literally birth rates are super low across the world in 1st& 2nd world countries. Yes, the system treats men and women differently and there are more men in prison than women. For a lot of reason men commit more crimes, they dont fully understand the consequences of their actions (there is a word is psychology for this i forgot) but women know the consequences of their actions. PLUS most men in prison are black or of color (hispanic.. etc). But not lets talk about the way the system treats a black man vs. a white man. Women , most women doesn't want a man to take care of her financially and she doesn't want to take care of a man like he is her child. He wants them to be equal, whatever the word "equal" means in their relationship. BUT to blame feminism completely for divorce is ridiculous. Biggest numbers for divorce is infidelity and money. Yes, I agree some women over due it with this feminism thing and start to basically make no sense. BUT i also think men fail to see the views of women and how they could possibly change as well. Oh when talking about circumcision is ridiculous, its a cultural thing dated thousands of years back. If your angry talk to your ancestors.

[hellionthesage]

Actually as the UVA rape case and the Duke lacross case show, women are nearly always believed even when all evidence seems to show they are lying. The most sited reason for divorce is no fault. If we where to say women iniate divorce due to infidelity 20% of the time we still would have 60% of divorces, which are filed by women for reasons other then infidelity. Men account for 20% of all divorces, 12% of those are due to infidelity. Leaving men divorcing there wives for reasons other then infidelity at 8% of the total of all divorce, this would then lead one to believe that women are the primary motivators of divorce. Circumcision in america dates back to John harvey Kellog, about the late 18 early 1900's, and it was specificly done to desensitise the penis in the hopes that it would reduce boys masterbating. However female circumcision that only occurs in the middle east and africa does date back a very long time yet that hasn't stopped most western countries making it illegal.

[hellionthesage]

What views do you think women fail to see? So far we have multiple laws that only benefit women, multiple programs that only benefit women and a society that has marginalized men to an extreme degree. When men bring this up they are ignored, openly insulted (as you can see from the comments) and criticised and ridiculed. Even when data supports what they are saying. Isn't that fairly evident that we live in a society that is hyper focused on women while disregarding men?

[Rawrzz]

So, men are damaged and stupid, essentially, is your statement? Do you realize what you're saying? THAT is why we have an issue with feminism. Because feminism paints men as evil oppressors in many cases. Can't you see that? Could you please reread what you wrote and try to think of it as if you were male? What if I said, "Women never had rights, because they were overly emotional and weak; and, clearly they were too stupid to realize that they were being oppressed until a virtual eyeblink ago." How would that make you feel?

You've made a lot of assertions on things that have a huge variety of causes, namely focusing on how men are violent, mentally ill idiots. And somehow we're just supposed to go, "Oooooh. That makes sense. It's all our fault for being stupid and mentally ill." My bad. Sorry I was born male. You completely negated any possible societal influence, and just outright said, "Oh, well, you're males, so it's all your fault because you're stupid and mentally ill."

[Rawrzz]

And, how do you know what the cause of mental illness is? Do you know for certain that--if, indeed, males are 3X as likely to suffer from mental illness--society treating men roughly is a causal factor *for* mental illness?

[VampireEmpress]

@Rawrzz back in the 30s,40s, and 50s men were treated way rougher, and mental illness rates were really low. some of them didn't even exist.

[Rawrzz]

Men were respected in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Maybe all this mental illness came from stripping males of pride. The point is, you don't know *why*, yet you assume you do.

And you say 'roughly', but what does that even mean? And, since you're not a male, how do you know what treatment is the roughest for us?

[hellionthesage]

Actually mental illness has the same rates between men and women, only what disorders very from one gender to another.

[VampireEmpress]

@Rawrzz I meant they had more stress, especially with the wars.

[Lolomon]

SO some people who have voiced there opiinions do not know the difference between gender and sex. Sex is what you where concieved/born as , what your chromosomes are and what type of brain you have. Gender is what you choose to live as. And no mentall illness is not equal ion both sexes id advice you to take a psychology class, class on nueroscience anything or pick up a book. Its not equal

[myTake Owner]

What you are doing is lying and using gender studies bullshit.
gender is not a social construct, our bodies are different and our brains are wired different.
www.webmd.com/.../how-male-female-brains-differ

www.theguardian.com/.../male-female-brains-real-differences

You gotta stop studying genders studies, it is completely useless in the real world and it defies science and logic.

[Lolomon]

what your doing is getting your info off the internet that where your messing up. NO, your brain is not different from you body. Please educate yourself, gender is 100 percent a social construct. Iam anueroscience student their is nothing i dont know about the brain , sex, and evolution. each sex has their own brain, if they had a different brain from their sex their bodies wouldn't function because male brains tell their bodies to do different things thant the female brain. A male sex brain COULD NOT survive in a female sex body. PLEASE stop getting your info fromm online, now stop wasting my time good bye and maybe take a class or two on nueroscience and psychology.

[myTake Owner]

you're not a neuroscience student. please stop lying.
If you were then you would know that males brains are bigger, and wired differently.
www.psychologytoday.com/.../brain-differences-between-genders

What about the whole awkward hormone difference in the brain?
I'm done arguing with feminist who say they are these accomplished career women
you are just an anger 25 year old who is mad at men.
It's so sad to see you argue against proven science. I will link more links if you want for more proof.
"gender is a social construct" lmao.

[Lolomon]

well if you read my comments before hand before you became pissy i said pint blank male brains are different. But i mean im tired of talking to an uneducated fool who beliefs the internet. like i said take some classes im sure they have some at your local community. Ignorance plagues the world.

[myTake Owner]

The internet is a very broad word. You see the internet itself could be anything from videos, music, forum boards, porn and such.
But sure then i guess don't ever look up maps, cooking instructions, and how to videos because you "don't believe the internet"
I used respected articles that doctors write for. I know not to believe "all" the internet, but what you say is just a way to not debate.
Miss. I-am-a-neurologist-student.
If you're not going to source anything or even debate and just try to mock it. then go home your drunk.
But you are lying about being a neurosurgeon student and anyone who reads these comments would know this.
good luck with that, doctor.

[hellionthesage]

For the mental illness comments: ideas.time.com/.../
www.mentalhealth.org.uk/.../
www.apa.org/.../mental-illness.aspx
www.theguardian.com/.../women-men-mental-illness-study
As for the gender diffrences (which is biologicly proven):abcnews.go.com/.../story?id=29335854
www.bbc.co.uk/.../dr_money_prog_summary.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Here is another, its a physcology site and as such attempts to undermine the biology but it does present all the evidence that proves gender is biological in nature: www.simplypsychology.org/gender-biology.html
Also if gender where social we would not have transgender since they are raised a specific gender while identifing with the other. Brain diffrences have been noted in these cases. There really is no argument.

[Anonymous]

I was married nineteen years. He travel all over the planet (I supported his career) I was the stay home wife and this was my duties as a wife.
1. I mowed and took care of yard. LAWN MAINTENANCE also caring for the lawn mowers.
2. I was his personal secretary
3. I had to become the accountant
4. I was the maid
5. I was the chief
6. I was baby sitter-2
7. I was the dog sitter-2
8. I was the cat sitter-2
9. I was the bus driver-2
10. I was the designer
11. I was the Gardner
12. Care taker of two cars - had to make sure I got the oil change and take care of cleaning of both cars and maintenance. When needed of course.
13. I was the nurse to my children and a nurse to him for three years of my life. He got sick (had cancer) then became a transplant patient.
14. I was the teacher

After doing all these things he decided that he just didn't want to be married anymore. He had nothing to give... was his words.
And that he just didn't love me anymore...

He is now married to his third young wife he met overseas. He has abandoned his daughters: He doesn't speak to them. It's been 4 years. What a great role model I married.

What do I have to teach my daughters. That they can never trust a man's word. That getting married will never work. That the only way they can have a life is without a man. Welcome to feminist.

[AleDeEurope]

Wow, your ex was definitely an awful role model, but you aren't a good one either :S you can't just assume every man is like that, and stopping your daughters from finding that special someone is a really bad move from you.

[john2]

Woooow your a great person. Your ex husband is crazy a very supportive person like you.

[Opinion Owner]

Listen up fellas :). This is what the ex did...
1. He threw is children out of their home when they were 16, 18. The smart father didn't stop to think, they were still trying to get an education. So he made his daughters homeless along with his ex wife. (Because he got the house, because I didn't work a job where u got paid with money). He got ALL MY FREE LABOR FOR FREE That is what he taught his daughters. They now have trust issues because of his actions NOT MINE. They are the ones that don't want to get married, they are the ones, that don't want to have babies... I just tell them it's the best choice to make for them. They are going to college now (they have never dated) now 21, 19. As a mother, I can't tell them that marriage works or that its long lasting... Because in REality it just doesn't... they are smart enough to know this or to look up the divorce rate... I am dating again, but the guy am dating doesn't want to get married because he knows it is sure to fail.

[Opinion Owner]

I have no choice but to teach them be a feminist. They will have to be strong minded and not weak minded. They have to know that traditional marriage IS NO MORE. That they can no longer look into a man's eyes and know ( when he proposes, he is not longterm and it will come with prenuptials.) It's a waste of time spending all kinds of money having a nice wedding. When in reality, you know, your not a guarantee, or the warranty is not a life time. If you ever go through a divorce and you lose everything. You will never do it again. That's life. So now, we are starting this thing called HIP marriage where it's all about the children. So you don't really look for a partner you look for a egg and sperm donor... and you make up contracts to be the best parent you can be... why not go to sperm bank... yes girls have all kinds of choices, don't they...

[myTake Owner]

I bet you were standing up when typing that.^

[VampireEmpress]

it's nosy, but how did all of you manage to live by yourselves after everything?

[Opinion Owner]

@Take owner. Lol. No. I wasn't. I was sitting on the toilet.

[Opinion Owner]

@ VampireExpress. Honey he did this in the middle of winter... He didn't want to give me my half... so the idiot from the Village lost his house... because he stole my half. We just bounced around from family to friends. But I moved out of that State back to my hometown where then I stayed with my mother. Life got a lot easier.. IT hasn't been easy but if you have Faith and u are a believer, God looks out for u.

[Opinion Owner]

@ take owner, that's not how the court rolls... the court doesn't really care who cheated.. blah blah... they really do try splitting it down the middle. A man will not get everything and a woman will not get everything. The Judge will make a fair ruling Orders and if you don't go by those orders you will be found in contempt of court. I didn't get the house because I couldn't pay the payments. That was fine. But I got alimony and children support ( which that's all on paper and I've not seen a dime) The court system is a business and as long as the couple want to drag things out... both, is losing money to the courts and the lawyers are taking his half and her half... and then you also have to pay for a lawyer for the kids but he just gave me the children... My ex didn't listen to the courts so he is still in contempt as of today

[VampireEmpress]

I'm happy you had people to help!!! Thank God.

[JustMe-93]

Just because your ex was an ass doesn't mean that all the other millions of men in this world are too =)

[lanternhill]

I just read all of this and I agree with commenters that generalizations can be bad - but they don't necessarily understand that psychological scarring often means knee-jerk generalizations are applied.

[Opinion Owner]

@JustMe-93 well until you have gone through the experience of a divorce... And lived almost 50 years..
Maybe u can get back to me on that, other wise, your comment doesn't mean anything to me. You can go back to coloring now.

[lightbulb27]

I agree there are flaws with feminism, but I still consider myself insufficiently informed to say something intelligent.

I will say I think men (or rather males or boys) hold a lot of responsibility for failures of marriages and relationships. We don't get any training at all. We lack male role models in our lives (good ones). We've lost a lot of our value in society (bread winner... role changes), and what training we get (from church as example) I find to be causing more disfunction, at least some of the time. not to crack on church, I see some men really sticking to their vows and so it helps build that aspect.

There's a lot of messed up women out there (married miserable, divorced miserable, single and wounded) and I do hold feminisim to own some responsibility for that due to the messages (and media) that is fed to them. Women also own cleanup of their own emotional selves, and some of that is due to male damage (feminism and or male corrupt behavior). Women are often their own worst enemies... and men unfortunately will allow them to be (because they can use the women) rather than leading women in a better direction to provide value in the womans live. They are women, they aren't to be controlled, but lead IMHO.

[hellionthesage]

Decent take. Probably should have included links and mention that NOW advocated for mothers getting full custody of children and 80% of divorces being filed by women the vast majority of which are no fault divorce. Or that 80% of all alimony and child support is paid for by men, and those who can't pay are put in prison. Or that suicide rates (which are 4x higher then women) actually double for men after a divorce. Or just have the feminist speak for themselves: "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

[myTake Owner]

you are correct i should have done so because i had to link the damn links like 50 times lol
and don't forget "air conditioners are sexist" look it up lol

[hellionthesage]

Or how about manspreading, where a bunch of feminist harrass a bunch of men minding there own business simply because they happen to have there legs an inch apart more then feminist think they should. Woman, so oppressed that they are demanding to the right to control how men sit.

[annie_annie]

This is an interesting take, I don't agree with much of it, since I believe that there are more reasons for the fail of marriages and relationship. They are not found only in feminism - there are many other factors too. But I understand that many are frustrated about it, yet are always blaming the opposite sex or so.

It's mainly because of our major change of morals and wrong/too high expectations and more. Many girls complain about how men are making this or that wrong, but really? I believe, we as girls do partly worse, and min. As many mistakes as men do.

Our generations are becoming more angry and mad... losing their morals more and more. It's very sad. We won't find any solutions that way.

Instead of blaming feminism, the opposite sex or any rot of that sort, we should work for a better solution and learn to get along with one another better.

That is however my opinion.^^ Thank you for taking your time!

[myTake Owner]

Excellent, i found your argument correct and non emotional.
But i would also like to point out that i am not blaming woman and defiantly would not.
I am saying that marriage for men is not worth it, while for women there is a bundle of incentive.
If a man cheats on the women then he lose money and just about everything. If the woman cheats then the man also lose everything and has to pay her for a long time. Hell even if they just think it's not working out the same effect happens.
It's just law.
But i do blame feminism, i should of wrote a longer take on what's wrong with men in this generation (which i will later) and believe me, there are wrong things about these males.
but i will 100% agree with your thoughts on moral.

[myTake Owner]

lol I don't know why i wrote "and defiantly would not"
been up all night.

[annie_annie]

Lol, that's fine, I make typos regularly because I type & upload it too fast.

Yes, I agree with you on that. Women can earn well too, nowaydays, there should be equal rights for men in there, especially when it comes to marriage, abuse, etc. It's ridiculous. I hope, more people realize this and will help to change this for the better of all.

[myTake Owner]

I'm afraid in our generation we will see a mass drop in marriages.
only girls like you will get married, and not many like you around.

[myTake Owner]

feminist air conditioning is sexist video: www.youtube.com/watch

[hellionthesage]

80% of divorces are filed by women so it is whether we wish to acknowledge it or not a issue with women. The National Organization of Women advocated for primary care giver laws which basicly give women full custody of children regardless of the fathers ability as a parent. This is an unfair law that was advocated for by a feminist womens group hence them being to blame. They also preached about how marriage was female enslavement, many prominant members of the feminist communities organizations and proffessors actively fought to instill this notion into the public mind. thoughtcatalog.com/.../
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

[escnor28]

feminism is not equality such a goal has never been its motive all that women want both in the times of pre feminism and post feminism is one thing and "one thing only "i will get what i want through any means necessary and i will frame it as my rights" so mark my words when i tell you again. "i will get what i want through any means necessary and i will frame it as my rights" and in doing so i will show no mercy or consideration to the weak even though i myself am weak and only made it here to this point through extreme appeals that i am weak and merit "merit mercy and consideration" for my flaws. but i will exterminate any who consider my flaws as my imperfections and portray it as the righteous way all hiding my own selfishness and arrogance through power (made it here to this point) to enforce it.
images6.fanpop.com/.../...en-37189406-800-1000.png
fc01.deviantart.net/.../...rdonamikaze-d7lf3vu.jpg
if you are able to find out who this anime character is it will save you a lot of trouble to make you understand what i am trying to tell you.
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1636255-why-is-gender-equality-something-you-feel-is-right-support-it

[evenlift]

The female responses to this take are really pathetic.

If women don't in large numbers start opposing feminism soon, this is going to end in catastrophe for them. It may already be too late to do anything. So many men are now uninterested in women, and even many of the ones who are interested are chronically unattractive to women because of feminism's destruction of masculine charm.

[myTake Owner]

I hope so, but i doubt that after growing up in this era and a good portion of men experienced divorce when they were children. And knowing the complete prejudice of divorce laws and among other mens issues that men will simply just not want that.
I'm not to confident of American gender relations in the future, men will simply just check out.

[evenlift]

I agree. I think it is very unlikely that the huge necessary changes will happen. And I include all of the West in this and arguably other parts of the world too.

[myTake Owner]

defiantly.

[Unersheep]

Well this should make you feel better. I was married for 8 years before my husband told me to leave (there was no infidelity and I wanted to stay). While we were together I stayed home with the kids while he was at work and I worked on the weekends when he was home (20 hrs a week at a job i hated). and did all the cooking and cleaning and all he did was work his 40 hrs a week. I gave all my earnings to him. When I was asked to leave, I obliged, and took our kids to live with my parents (for 2 years because I was in debt and had a job that didn't pay very well). I worked my way out of debt and got a job I eventually could survive on to support myself and my kids. I got no child support, none of his 401K, he paid none of "my" debt. I tried to get all these things but apparently had a bad lawyer (even though she cost 260/hr) I finally couldn't afford to fight for my "rights" anymore. So this is why I will never get married again. Had nothing to do with feminism.

[myTake Owner]

Very special case or it just might be a made up story on the internet.
The stats are there. The laws are there.
You may have this happened to you but that man was lucky to have had this situation if it really happened.

[Rawrzz]

Should make him feel better? Why? This isn't about hating women. This isn't about wanting women to suffer in place of men. This is about equal treatment between both.

I'm sorry that happened to you. OP is right, though. When we're talking about societal forces, there are many exceptions and differences, though the general premise remains true.

[Unersheep]

My point in sharing what happened to me is that it that it shows what can happen when we trust our husbands to take the "male" role in a marriage and we take the "female" role. We leave ourselves financially dependent on them, and when they leave (or have us leave) we have nothing. My husband had the opportunity to move up in his job for many years to where he was making a good living, and I was stuck at the ground level, with no education, making 250/week.
And I said it should make him feel better, because he made a comment about how men are treated. And I wanted to share with him how some of us women are treated too.

[VampireEmpress]

that sounds terrible... so you got all of his debt and had to pay it off after everything? but why?

[Unersheep]

Technically it was my debt because it was my credit card. But usually in a divorce, the debt accrued during the marriage is both parties responsibility. And everything that went on that card was a benefit to the family, and not just to myself.

[Rawrzz]

There's risk in every relationship, for both men and women. The whole point of this, in my opinion, is that people focus a lot more on the risks and issues with women, and don't really care about the issues that happen to men. I think this might be most easily understood when thinking about the woman who cut her husbands dick off and threw it in the disposal. People thought it was hilarious or just didn't care. If a woman's tit was cut off, do you think anyone would laugh? It would be viewed as a travesty. And yes, it is. But so is a guy having his dick cut off by some crazy woman.

And, while your situation wasn't really resolved or helped by society in any way--if it wasn't the cause--many female issues are attended to and spoken about much more so than male issues, I feel. The point is feminism doesn't care about males; it cares about females. That's why I'm an egalitarian. I care about both.

[Unersheep]

My response was to where the OP states that "men are waking up and saying enough and are refusing marriages and relationships and to take any part in it. Why would I want to give my resources to a woman who could just cheat on me and take all my money away legally" To which I ask, why would we women want to be in a relationship where we take care of the kids, do all the cooking and housework (and maybe even work part time to help with the bills) when we COULD get left for no good reason, and then have no means to support ourselves?

Look, I'm just sharing what happened to me. I didn't tell the OP he was wrong for feeling the way he does. I couldn't care less if he gets married or not. I just wanted to say the other side of this, the woman's side, It isn't always so good for us either.

[katley]

@Unersleep: I get what your saying. I sacrificed my education to work part time and take care of the home children and wife duties... but I got a huge wake up call when he didn't want me anymore... And I will not let my daughter's choose the same choices I did... I will explain to them what happen to me, but I the has older children they seen how I struggled to make ends meet... but the God lord is there when you get done wrong... its been a hard ride for our kids... but do you think he feels guilty today... nope. He has is paying for his own sins. Karma is a bitch...

[myTake Owner]

@katley I started ignoring responses, due to the high volume of them.
But you sweetheart got my attention.
Are you a feminist who believes in god? There is nothing wrong believing in god, I do myself.
My question/problem is that feminists are the largest supporters of abortion, so how are you going to be talking about sin when you are with a group that kills babies?

[TheEroticJester]

Marriage in the US is defunct. Not because of only women but because of how MEN enforce the 'hit it and quit it' culture. Why are there so many men ready to sleep with just about anything that can take a dick? The only reason you perceive female 'value' as so high is because all of you see value only in their vaginas.

Once you start looking for more than sex in a girl you'll find that their 'value' is neither much higher nor much lower than your own, provided you do the basics (work towards/have a career and take care of yourself).

Yeah there are certain female behaviors that you're point of view explains nicely but your overall belief that all your dating or life problems are because of women is negative and not conducive to anything.

Self Pity never helped anyone

[myTake Owner]

Wow the amount of white knighting here was amazing.
I don't know if you are just not a man, or just never hung out with men. But it is very rarely when men enforce the "hit it and quit it" culture. I among most men view that as an emptiness of ones inner-self, looking for sex to fill some sort of void.
Which is why in my take i mention about feminism promoting promiscuity.
What you have done here is unleashed some sort of hubris where you just blanket a whole damn gender with the assumption that we are all sex fiends.

[TheEroticJester]

Promiscuity is cool. Works for me works for the ladies. We're men we're smart enough to adapt. Sitting and whining never solved anything, work for it or give up on it, fuck the rest.

[myTake Owner]

correction it's cool for you, It for you and it works for the ladies that decide this path.
I don't sleep around with many women, or do one night stands, and i expect the same out of the woman i'm dating.
You can choose to do or be with anyone. But don't expect the rest of the people who prefer not to do that to participate in this.
All i'm saying

[Bandit74]

The number of people even getting married in the first place is declining.

Even if marriage wasn't risky for guys, the number of women that are actually worth making that kind of commitment to are few and far between.

I'm sure a marriage with the right woman would be great but anything short of that then it's not worth it.

[coldpieceofpizza]

It seems that for a lot of people that want to get married "marriage" itself is the goal. People seem to think that to be happy you have to be in a relationship. If the author is right and a lot of men don't want to get married because it has become too "risky" for them, than I would say good for them. If you're already expecting your partner to treat you unfairly, cheat on you or steal all your stuff in a divorce, then you shouldn't get married to them in the first place.

[myTake Owner]

again that's not the problem, the problem is the laws are so prejudice against men that there is absolutely no reason to get married.
I'm sure all those men didn't think it would happen, and 80% of all divorces are initiated by women.
this is just logistics.

[ccp16]

I'd say I hope you are a troll, but I know you aren't as this was a lot of work...

I have and will continue to date fiercely strong and independent women. I have had very strong relationships and foresee no issues in marriage someday with an equal partner I respect and value.

Now I agree, modern feminism can take things a bit far and we nee dot focus on eradicating BOTH sides of the negative values form gender roles (yes men are hurt by gender roles as well and I advocate for us as well). But in the end, the onlything that can be blamed for many men's relationship problems are their refusal to grow up and get with the modern times.

[myTake Owner]

You are wrong, you cannot NOT blame men for not "growing up".
53% of all marriages fail. If the woman fails the contract then she will get all your money and resources, if you failed then she gets all the money and resources, if both didn't fail but just want to end the contract then she will end up with the resources. In 1975 a new child support law was created even though alimony was for the woman and for the child has been around for a very long time to support the children. This is when feminism took off, they support women leaving their husbands for whatever reason, they support the prejudice laws all in the name of them being "oppressed".
You think this was happening before divorce? You think the wife would of been able to take all the financial resources if she cheated back in the day?

By todays LAWS women can do no wrong.

so what the hell does "growing up" have anything to do with that?
How about you grow up and look at the stats.

[ccp16]

I already stated that mens rights need to be protected on equal levels, I support everything you jsut said, now that woman are becoming more independent, we don't need to give them an easier time in court, it will take time to change, but it needs to be a more fair system.

I am saying men need to grow up in that many are blind to the privileges we hold... just the other day I was talking with a flatmate and she got a taxi home form a place not even 15 min walk away from our building, which I laughed at. But being a big guy, I never once thought about my safety in that area, where as for a woman it can be a very frightening and dangerous even.

I just mean I would never date or marry a woman who holds on to old social norms, i want her to be equal with me, have drive a good career (where is paid even). I think blaming feminism for divorce rates is out right dumb. people have always wanted divorces, society started accepting them more so more people feel okay doing it.

[ccp16]

I have had very successful relationship with strong feminist women, I never once felt like they were tying put me down or be better than me, they just want the same thing out of life is all, and you can't fault them for that.

[myTake Owner]

Then you are lying.
Stop neck-bearding, if you date a feminist then the simple fact is that you cannot get a women so the only women you can get is one that hates men.
And if it is so successful how come you "had" it and not still in it?

[ccp16]

See, you are too blind for your hate to feminism, let me repeat, MODERN FEMINISM IS AWFUL! But

and because I am 23... I don't want to settle down all the way yet, not even close! I have lived with two exes though. I guess I just come form a very loving family, all my aunts and uncles are also still very happily married, so maybe I am optimistic or lucky, but I think it is worth what ever risks you are so afraid of (financial, which is very unimportant to me)

claiming all feminists hate men is childish though, many can be seething at the mouth idiots, sure, but there are still far more level headed women out there

[myTake Owner]

it is feminists who have "male tears" mugs
it is feminists who started "#killallmen", "#throwrocksatboys" "#castrateallmen"

and if you don't believe feminism is a hate movement here are women laughing at men because his penis was cut off and thrown into the garbage bin: www.youtube.com/watch

[ccp16]

dude, I don't know what kind of women you hang around, but I have not once in my life met a girl who says or does any of those things... you clearly have some poor company, lots of divorce and lots of 5% of feminazis who give the rest of us a bad name.

As for the video, that is sick and wrong, but come on, do you really think that is representative of the movement? Its celebrities... The wife of Ozzy Osborne for goodness sake!

In the end, you are going to go away form women and use them for sex through life and not have a relationship, and that is fine, no one is forcing you to, but for me, I know I will have no problem finding a solid wife and settling down and make it work. Money is the least of my worries, I'm a teacher, I won't be making sh$@ to give out hahahaha

[myTake Owner]

hahah 5%?
are you shittting me? Dude feminists even believe that the 77 cents to a dollar myth was REAL! even though it was proven to be wrong by feminists and economists.
The is the most recent of shannigans of feminism "air condition is sexist" this shit is on the "professional major" NEWS. and you tell me it's only 5%? www.youtube.com/watch

Whether extremists or not feminism has no reason to exist anymore, there isn't a single law that discriminates against them actually there are laws the benefit them, some of them being in divorce court which is not "equal" or "fair" anymore.
tell me what reason do you have to be a "male feminist"?

[ccp16]

No the 75cents thing si a myth you are right, but the problem goes deeper to adolescence I think, where men and women are pushed for different paths in life. air condition is in fact sexist but in a funny way I don't think anyone I have ever met takes seriously... it is commonly known that women feel a breeze more, so in my school, when a female teacher requests a temperature change, often they just shut her fan off or on, but that actually solves the problem, I agree nothing to be upset with.

Clearly you are looking for these extremists though... i have many great friends, two going on for a decade who are for sure feminists but have never once said or thought anything like what you are pulling here... Maybe I got lucky and only know really down to earth feminists who have very real problems I can sympathize with.

What I get out of it is respecting all people equally, I don't need materiel advantages or threats about divorce and money or what ever it is you are so worried

[myTake Owner]

I would say that this is extremism except for the fact that news media reported on this and agreed. and it was shared by other feminists.www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...sexist.-True-story.html
seriously that wasn't extreme.

I get it, you truly do care about these females and really think you are doing the right thing.
i am sorry for attacking you, but you have to wake up and see that these females are not right in the head...

[ccp16]

I see, a different story than I thought and it is a silly one, though can't you believe that that really is the worst? I could see being upset by that as a woman, but at the same time, practically speaking, we can only take so many clothes off professionally you can always put more on... a 2 degree difference? How can you really get any more int he middle...

Well listening to large media outlets is your mistake, they just want click bait and things that will upset people so they get more traffic on their sites for revenue... modern journalism is truly dying. The telegraph is certainly not the best place to go to in my opinion... but it is just so hard to find true good stories anymore...

anyway, happy we could walk away form this peacefully, too often on here you butt heads with someone and it ends with either an angry rant and block or someone just stop responding

[ccp16]

And I do care, I know so many who are just so.. normal and not like this and we all deserve an equal playing field and I want to fight for that. We are a t a very strange time in history right now, right in between centuries of old fashioned gender roles and change, so policies and attitudes are all over the place and will take time to level out.

but just because I sometimes identify as a feminist (though I do wish there was a more equal word out there, but equality sounds dumb.) I don't forget that their are many negative effects form these gender roles for men, such as not being able to be as emotionally open or be stay at home fathers, etc. One thing I always advocate for is male rape victims. Being one myself, I know what it is like to have the law against my gender, Who is going to arrest a woman for raping a man after all?

[myTake Owner]

you say "centuries old gender types" like it's a bad thing.
I mean lions have been eating zebra and gazelles for centuries why should we stop that?
It's natural for men to be the providers and females to be the managers and care takers.

we are different by nature, not just physically but also our brains are wired differently.
And at that time it was males who would go out and work in dangerous jobs that risks their life. While the "oppressed" females would stay at home and take care of the kids. If anything we were the oppressed.

[ccp16]

True, but I think our society has developed in ways where we stopped evolving in many ways (not all) long ago and our lives and society have changed a bit more than a lion's has... and now that most of the West is not industrial based, I think there is no longer any real reason to keep old gender roles, so I guess to me it is a negative, but I am also very liberal. There will always be things one does more and better than the other, but I don't think that means we should be pushing one gender one direction and the other someplace different. We should all have the same options and starting platform to become what we want, not woman as baby sitters and guys as scientists, sure we may have a predisposition for these things (guys are better at mental 3D imagining in general) but I think nurture has far more of an impact on us than nature.

but again, I am assuming you will vary on this as a conservative (I am assuming?) and heavy handed evolutionist- which is fine!

[myTake Owner]

You are correct i don't think we should be pushing anyone towards anywhere.
BUT it is feminists who are pushing the narrative "masculinity is toxic" and attempting to make boys follow female behavior pattern.
It is feminists who put down women who choose to be stay at home mothers.
Actually i am just a conservative in matters of economic policy i love Milton Friedman, Hayek, and Sowell.
Here i promise you will be glued to this economist and you will be amazed by the debates that people used to have, he even had help from his wife who he met in his economics class. www.youtube.com/watch

[evenlift]

So, you don't date feminists then? There's nothing independent about wanting the regulatory-welfare state, which almost all feminists support.

[vishna]

Just how you can list how privileged women are, and then rationalize the advocacy for this gender should be done away with, you can list how privileged men are and rationalize how the advocacy for that gender should be done away with.

But, being a good human being, who happens to be a feminist, I would never say that the privileged American male should not have his rights fought for.

The last paragraph under the relationships section was fabulous! Great portion of a MyTake.

However the first bit was all about you and your ideals for a family.
When I start my career, I don't want to hire a nanny or a housekeeper. I plan to stay at home enough to raise my children, keep the house tidy, and do family things.
Both people can work, have children, cook/clean, and be happy. It's possible and can be very rewarding to parents and children.

[badboymacho]

I think you give a fair argument but can you please list some of the male privilege?

[myTake Owner]

I should have made it more clear but those weren't my "ideals" sure they are good but it doesn't mean it's my ideal. I was pointing out the two way street of the relationship, and how it involves the man and woman working equally hard.

"Just how you can list how privileged women are, and then rationalize the advocacy for this gender should be done away with,"
I maybe mistaken, but are you saying that i said that i want to do away with women?
Cause i did not say this...

[vishna]

@badboymacho Can you list a single female privilege? If so, I think you can name a male privilege too.

@TakeOwner advocacy is the key word here, advocacy for rights. I thought I made myself clear, however, that is what I meant.

[myTake Owner]

advocacy for what rights? women?
What rights are you missing?

[Anonymous]

You are giving feminism too much credit here, the fall of marriage and relationships is not relation to feminism but the fall of religion causing the fall of moral.

No God, means no responsibility/accountability, hence no need for marriage, trust etc., we can do whatever we want and we only live once.

Feminism is a pest for sure, and a anti humanitarian philosophy, however don't blame them for everything. Even feminism is innocent at times.

[ccp16]

I just had a very interesting conversation how those who are religious and usually economically conservative, which means every man for themselves and standing up for yourself. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most religious preach caring for your neighbor and not taking such pride in the material world? Why is that socialists tend to be atheist, yet the entire concept is based off of the common good and providing for those who need help?

Why is that as an atheist, I feel more compassionate and self sacrificial than many of those of faith?

[myTake Owner]

It's because you do not understand the power of individualism.
absolute power corrupts, and giving government power takes away from the individual to take upon himself to make change.
Do not mistake allowing someone else to take care of your affairs as any better then doing it yourself.

[MaiNameIsSunshine]

I'm not going to say everything I wanna say but where did you get your statistics. You need to site them, you can't just expect us to believe what you said.
A) Men can get breast cancer, so that money goes towards them as well.
B) Circumcision is not illegal because it would deny a certain religion its ability to practice this "tradition"
C) Feminism does not make the top 20 reasons for divorce, google it. Plus divorce is between 2 people. It takes 2 to tango.

[MaiNameIsSunshine]

I'm a feminist. Yes a lot of those pestering feminazis are really dumb, but you can't just blame a whole group for what a few people do. There are lot of things that are unfair for both genders. Just please stop trying to blame feminists for every problem our society has.

[heavensgift2girls]

You can find those statistics all over the internet. The numbers vary a little depending on the source but largely he is correct about the issues men are facing.

A) It is so rare that is isn't worth mentioning. We all know the pink ribbons are not meant for both genders inflicted with that type of cancer.
B) There are a lot of religious practices that are already illegal, such as female circumcision, bigamy, and honor killings.
C) Indirectly it is the leading cause of divorce. I am not saying that is a bad thing as people are no longer stuck in bad marriages. However the end of gender roles means that people are more independent. Without that independence most of these divorces would not be happening. Being divorced is a whole lot better than being stuck in a bad marriage.

[MaiNameIsSunshine]

Yes it is better to be divorced. To be frank, women who fulfilled traditional gender roles were often quite miserable and to ask for divorce was an unspeakable thing to do. My grandfather disowned my aunt for wanting to leave her abusive husband. Perhaps if she had been able to make that decision she wouldn't have taken her own life. It is good that women have become more independent, it makes for less cases like these...

[Anno_Domini]

"A) Men can get breast cancer, so that money goes towards them as well."

I've never, ever seen any kind of fundraiser aimed at preventing, curing, or raising awareness of breast cancer in men.

[MaiNameIsSunshine]

Men with breast cancer is quite rare. But the money goes to anyone with breast cancer, not just females.

[hellionthesage]

Men with breast cancer get turned away from clinics with great frequency actually since they claim they are only suited to perform mammograms and the procedures are specificly for women. as for circumcision, the vast majority of circumcions practiced in america are of a non religious nature, also despite the fact that female circumcision has religious and cultural traditions, we have had no issue making it illegal in most of the western world. This is whats known as a double standard. as for divorce, I suppose it does take two, except that women can divorce men with out there consent and without notifing them until the divorce papers show up. 80% of all divorces are filed by women the most sited reason being no fault. Men account for 20%, 12% of which is due to the wifes infidelity. Making only 8% of all divorces filed by men. Meanwhile 80% of all alimony/childsupport is paid for by men and feminist successfully lobbied for mothers to get full custody of children.

[hellionthesage]

Also circumcision was introduced in america by several people the most prominent being John Harvey Kellogg, for the sole purpose of desensitising the penis in the hopes of preventing males from masterabating, or to control there sexuality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...cess-mammogram-man.html
Here is mention of the divorce statistics, I include it only because I find it telling that it heavily suggests that it is the husbands fault instead of equal blame. www.uplifting-love.com/.../...es-are-filed-by.html
Here is another: www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...orce-more-than-men.html

[VampireEmpress]

@hellionthesage but if it was introduced by a man, what does that have to do with feminism?

[Rawrzz]

It means that people would balk at the idea of tearing a female's clit hood off, but somehow, it's no biggie to cut a man's foreskin off without asking them if they want that. In other words, how outraged do you think society would be if female circumcision started happening?

[hellionthesage]

@VampireEmpress Well, I'm glad you are acknowledging the gender desparity in feminisim. It has to do with feminism because every feminist I have talked to and as any one who mentiones it can vouch for, feminist advocate or argue against circumcision being made illegal all the while advocating female oppression using female circumcison (illegal in the western world) If its oppressive to women why is it not oppressive to men? If feminism is for equality why is it illegal to circumcise women but no feminist has fought to make male circumcision illegal and in fact have actively dismissed any and all claims of its inmorality and damaging effects? This is what it has to do with feminism, the double standards and not even remotley hidden bigotry.

[VampireEmpress]

@hellionthesage you've really met people who advocate for circumcision on babies? have you honestly?

[myTake Owner]

@VampireEmpress
gawker.com/.../pediatricians-circumcision-is-a-good-thing-ignore-a-lot-of-what-we-said-in-the-past

www.nbcnews.com/.../#.Vcklq_lVhBc

I get it, you're one of the more calm people here. But for gods sake, you could of googled that.

[VampireEmpress]

@Take Owner I meant if he'd met people in real life who said that.

[myTake Owner]

Yes.
I met females in america who said that men should be circumcised because to them "it's more attractive".
Not in Europe, but in america