I was reading something related to abortion recently, and under that an American argued that if women were to have the right to an abortion (no matter the reason), then men should be able to opt out of child support (no matter the reason)
This warrants a bigger question about American laws regarding divorce as well, from what I hear the divorce courts have a history of being misandrist, they usually give women more or complete control over the children, and assets completely owned by the man are usually handed over to women as well.
What are your thoughts regarding these questions, and where do you stand, do you believe these laws are unjust to men, or do you believe these laws are fair to men?
These laws are fair to men
These laws are unjust to men
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+1 y
It is incredibly sad how 14 women think these laws are fair to men. These women are quite sexist and disgusting.
Should men be forced to pay child support?
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I think it really depends on the situation. For example, my baby daddy is a piece of shit and has nothing to do with his son. So I don't want his money, I don't want anything to do with him at all. If he decided he wanted to be a part of my son's life then yes, I would expect him to help me raise our son.
They can opt out of child support... Its called forfeiture of parental rights. You also give up being able to see the child but if you were going this route you weren’t going to anyway. Not sure if other states have this
I'm pretty sure if this was a option no man would be paying child support. The laws are there for a reason. Men need to support their children. It's the least they could do considering the mom birthed and takes care of the baby.
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+1 y
If the man is given equal custody and only has to pay as much as the woman is paying, than it is fair. Otherwise it's exploitation and sexist.
Itd be impossible to give equal custody during the first two years cause of breastfeeding. It's more important for the mom and baby to be together. Even past that baby stage. Dads are not meant to be taking care of the kids. That's why they need to support and pay for the baby and mother
I do not think it would be impossible to give equal custody during the first two years. It is not more important for the mom and the baby to be together. It is sexist of you think that men are not meant to be taking care of kids. As for paying, the mother has hands, legs, a brain and everything necessary to earn money for herself, the man doesn't owe her anything.
How is the dad gonna feed or soothe the baby? If the baby is breastfed then you're not allowed to give pacifiers or bottles cause I'd nipple confusion so until the baby is off the breast which is usually 2 years, sometimes more then yes its impossible for the dad to be alone with the baby for more then a hour
I have two kids and I would never choose to work over being with them. It just isn't natural for a women to do that. It's natural for men to provide. I'm not being sexist. Its just how nature works
Living together seems like a bad idea for some people. Plus if baby is on the breast every hour or so there is very little time itll actually be able to spend with dad
If you really value the ancient and sexist "laws of nature", then follow them completely at the very least. Such laws were against divorce or separation, and there were quite a lot of other sexist parts in it as well that you wouldn't like to follow. Don't cherry pick the laws that work in your interest and call them the "laws of nature".
I think the largest portion of what men don't take into consideration is just that babysitting is a 24 hour activity. A women literally cannot bring her baby into the workplace to "keep or get" a job. This is pure logistics.
i think not being "ready" to be a parent is valid, but I think that these situations lends themselves to a greater higher sense of personal accountability, where the situation is no longer 1 on 1, but say 1.5 on 1. I think it also depends on the status and financial leverage of the woman. Some women will be disowned by their entire community for considering an abortion. If his family is like that, then well, at least they are in the same boat. Did he comes from pro-choice leave em whenever it's convenient? That's not really "fair" on her or communities that value protecting life. Some women have a job that gives them 3 months off post child and then another 3 months of unsalaried pay. If she's the latter, her ability to work or get a job is not as impacted by "her choice." I should note that until the kid is in primary school, she's still in that window of logistical hell.
Assuming a male breadwinner situation, I think men should be forced to pay for child support up until the age that most children are eligible for primary school like first grade. I do not know so much about kindergarten programs, but I think it is possible to absolve men from the "until they are 18 or whatever" clause. Kids can start working at 14-15 to earn their own money, and most kids by age 12/13 can spend a couple hours by themselves without supervision. By the time your kid is 6, they can go to 6 hour school, and then do the extra hour afterwards. A mother would sort of be able to work a "mother's hours" position, which probably doesn't have benefits, but it is literally the first sustainable income she may get in 5 years if no one else is pitching in.
Parenting doesn't just stop at 6, but in all likelihood, that kid probably isn't going to remember developing a relationship with you. It's healthier to have deadbeat dads out of picture and women can take the morality out of the child support issue. There isn't enough money in the world to make someone want to be a good parent. Its an economic disadvantage resulting from babysitting that should be recognized, but keep the parental morality out. Thank you.
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+1 y
I did not read your complete comment, but if women are to have the right to having an abortion, then men should have the right to not pay child support.
Hon, you signed the papers for child support the moment you decided to have sex. The woman decides to keep it or not. The heart doesn’t start beating until 16 weeks in the womb, therefore “it” is not properly a human being or anything else, at that point it’s just a jellyfish basically. It is all her body at that point in time therefore she should have the right to do as she chooses. BRO IF YOU DONT WANNA PAY YOUR DAMN CHILD SUPPORT THEN DONT HAVE SEX. Both of y’all gotta be smart and do safe sex (ex: birth control AND condoms) if you don’t want an abortion, then get a damn dna proof that that is the father, and get your child support. You guys gotta discuss this before your 16 week window is up to decide on it.
Don’t have a child if you can’t financially support it/them/he/her. Don’t have a child if you can’t support their sexuality or gender identity either. Don’t have a child if the dad is gonna be gone and out of their life, that effects their life too. Don’t have kids if you are gonna be a neglectful parent.
Bitch I’m in high school and I know this shit.
You should be aware of the risk of parenthood responsibilities (both parties before engaging in sexual activity.
Use common sense bruh.
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+1 y
As long as a woman has the right to have an abortion, a man should have the right to not pay child support.
How about if he was married to the woman with his biological children he’s gotta pay child support if they divorced? I mean that makes more sense. Also if they take it to court it should be on the gudges final decision, and he has to be judged by motives too.
If he gets 50% custody and no one is considered the primary caretaker of the children, and the amount he pays in child support is the same as the amount the woman pays in child support, than it is fair.
If he has been granted visitation rights, than he should pay something at least. If he doesn't want to pay anything, then he should forfeit his limited custody of the children.
You see, if people dont take responsibility for their mistakes, how do they learn? So whatever the final choice is, all parties involved should take some responsibility. TBH though, system of "justice" is highly highly flawed and corrupt. Is it better than no system? i honestly dont know. Judges are easily manipulated. Wining is not about being man, woman, bad, or good... Its about how much you pay your lawyer. You want your lawyer to have experience. Pay more. You want your lawyer to lie a little.. pay more. You want a lawyer known to win.. pay more. You want a lawyer who is friends with a judge.. pay more.
F the system F the system F the system. Lol i might get backlash from this, but whatever, my experience is as valid as anyone elses :b
I believe in Education though. You dont want this shitty situation to happen. Educate the children. May the future generations learn from our mistakes. Teach them principles and values. In this case id refer to Habit no2 of "The 7 habits of a highly effective person": Begin with the end in mind. Take actions today knowing what your ideal vision is. Dont do something that does not align with your vision. Stop hooking up and leaving yourself and someone else in a shitty situation involving murder (yea thats what I think of abortion), involving the injustice system, and making everyone's life miserable at a great monetary cost. F that, seriously
We can all win, if we win together. So educate yourself, and educate others. (ps, dont take any of what I wrote personally, I just write like that, addressing the 2nd person)
Looking at other comments I partially agree with @cute_short_nerd. She got it right saying you signed the child support papers when you decided to have sex. Responsibility. That must be learned. I see you though, @thehorriblesheikh , replying the same thing to everyone. It just doesn't seem like you wanted to ask a question, but rather just confirm your opinion by having others support it... But you won't get that. We are here on this earth to learn and grow. Not to regress. So I suggest you open your mind, and start realizing you need to change your mindset. What kind of world do you wanna live in? Hopefully you will fully read my initial comment and get some insight..
When the guy leaves because he doesn't want the child and asked the girl to have an abortion he should be able to abandon the child. To me that would be fair.
If you both want the child and the guy leaves then it's fair if he pays to support the child. At least when the child is living with his mother for most of the time.
I think people should have children on a contractual basis. Both side should sign the contract, yes, we want this child. If someone doesn't sign it, it means they don't agree with it. =shouldn't pay. I haven't figured out the details! Women should definitely ask men, do you actually want to have kids, not just trapping them. It should be a consensual decision, for the child's sake too.
It should be you get her pregnant, you're having a baby no abortion. And if you dont want to stay together figure it out without the courts if possible. That's what my parents did and it worked out great. No child support, no fighting, no courts, and time with both parents (week by week). Not the best but it worked.
When a child is born, whether she wanted it or not, she's responsible for supporting it financially. Men have the option to leave and sometimes don't support the child financially.
I do not what the laws were then and I do not know why your mother did not force your father to pay, though currently by law, a woman can legally force a man to pay for child support.
Long story short yes absolutely, there's 2 halves to having a child and if you choose to drop out of that responsibility then the least you can do is pay your child support
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+1 y
The point was that abortion gives women a window to opt out of having to deal with a child, but men do not have the option to opt out. This is considered unfair by many men.
The argument that you are making here can be made the other way around. If one were to say that there is no justification for the legalization of abortion due to the availability of effective contraceptives for women.
That makes sense. However, this leaves something unanswered, given that both genders should use contraceptives. Then should it be legally enforced for men to pay child support? and should there be a legally enforced ban on abortion?
Are you asking for my opinion abortion? And still yes because it's a 2 person thing, without the point of human decency you still played a part in producing a child and so you can pay towards helping raise that child
Yes, I am asking about your opinion on abortion, as well as saying that by many men it is considered unfair that there is abortion that allows women to opt out of having a child, but there is no legal way for men to opt out of having to pay for a child.
I'm pro choice (I think that's what Americans call it) if I am mentally/physically/financially not ready for a child and I took contraception and still became pregnant then yes id have an abortion. And I'm sorry to say but that's just part of being in a relationship, trusting one another and having that conversation and knowing when to leave if that's not viable
Why should a man have to go to court to have his right to opt out of child support be enforced, if women do not have to deal with a court before having an abortion?
This is how I meant by the human decency side of the discussion, one has to deal with a potential life altering surgery while the other can just be free to move on
Depending on when the guy chooses to opt out specifically during pregnancy increases the risk that can happen during an abortion and sometimes the sign you're pregnant doesn't show right away, with that being said and you truly believe you did everything in your power to prevent having a kid then you can spend a month going to court and arguing your side
A man should be responsible for where he puts his cock. Why should a women have to deal with the entire process of childbirth? Better yet if you dont want a kid just dont have sex!
Because it s a 2 way thing? You understand how to get pregnant correct? How about we rephrase it "when you have sex, wear a condom and take contraception and have fun, if you're not willing to take the 99.99% risk that the contraceptives dont work, dont have a kid!"
IM AGREEING WITH YOU HOLY GOD A 99.99% risk that contraceptives dont is that you'll pay child support after you piss off, if that's a fear DONT HAVE SEX UNTIL you're READY
It goes for both sides, if a women doesn't want to risk having a kid then then don't have sex, if a man doesn't want to risk having a kid then dont have sex
If you're that scared then carry around a waiver saying yes I'm using a condom and yes she's using birth control and no I dont want a child and have her sign it
I will the next time I dont trust my partner has mutual interests and wears every possible contraception, and if then I'm still worried I'll sexually whip out that little waiver ok
Nevermind, I'm focused on different things now. It was a good debate, I hope nothing I said came off as offensive to you, because that was never the intention.
If a woman aborts then a man can also run away and he also deserves full rights. But If woman didn't aborted then the man is also responsible, right?
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+1 y
Regardless of whether a woman chooses to abort the baby or not, as long as she has the right, the man should have the right to not pay child support as well.
Yes both genders should have equal rights. A woman can't steal from a man if she aborts the kid. That's gold digging. I've seen women getting pregnant from another men. What are the laws in your area?
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