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I think that's unnecessary, I mean, who is not defined by their partner is simply a person that is oriented towards individualism. But this applies to women too, I mean, individualism is not a news and it's about not belonging to any entity/group/authority/religion/dogmas, defining your own person alone by yourself. Couples where both have enough self-awareness usually work better because they understand better each other and can deal with problems and disequilibrium easily.
I find it also a bit ridiculous because it talks about "embracing masculinity", like implying that masculinity and self-value is all about being closed in yourself emotionally (lol, is that a value? The real growth would be about being able to fully share yourself and express yourself around with no need of protections and layers, and by being able to handle pain and problems by actually living them deeply inside and coming out with tools to overcome them, instead of escaping and preserving a condition of emotional ineptitude).
Being more emotionally independent is usually desiderable for who is extremely weak or ingenuous, but is there really the need of such an additional movement? Mh, well...
In all honesty, I think this is mainly useful for men that continuously feel weak, unprepared, and then even "threatened" by any source of emotional freedom, inexperienced and with so big ego lacks inside that would be actually easy to manipulate and submit, from a partner. Like being a big insensitive and practical rude man on the surface, with their inner kind inside screaming to death louder and louder, beating him to shut up, to not let others hear it. Thus, the need of such a hyper-protective and delicate movement...
For sure you can overcome these lacks by first protecting yourself a bit, I mean, if you see women as a threat then it means they really could be, for your condition, because you'd fully fall into any kind of possible emotional abuse if you are unprepared. And protecting yourself a bit could give you enough space for that, having some sort of shy attempts of opening yourself here and there but still preserving your space. But then you'd start overcoming all this only by doing experience and finding the courage to face pain and problems too, developing tools. Experience would also put off all these extremely distorted beliefs about manipulative women in couples that will only suck away your wallet (haha, what women do you expect to date, only Russian scammers? Well, they actually work well with ingenuous men like that, not really a coincidence I guess; but this is not how relationships work, it's pretty much naif to have this kind of vision, like if you don't live in the society and have no social contacts).
Sorry for kidding you a bit and also the movement itself. But yeah I find it pretty miserable and not resolved at all, I'd just say: take inspiration from that push towards individualism if you need it, but only this. Question all the rest and explore other options to accept your weakness and to manage it without repression because it would only make your life worse. Give yourself more chances, do more attempts, give yourself more patience, try to reconsider your hate/anger and to analyze it better, otherwise it would be just a suicide in my opinion. And it's full of men that succeeded that phase, so you can do that too. You're 20, don't kill yourself.
In general, mgtow isn't much different than feminism except its guys, as others said. But I remember an MGTOW on another forum (not an mgtow forum).
Some of his ideology - like slashing the tires of a woman who rejected him, setting an apartment on fire if the landlord evicted him, more or less advocating rape (including date rape), a mentality close to enforcing woman slavery, a general down-and-out hatred of women with no real cause, etc. - was appalling.
I'd like to have said he wasn't hugged enough as a kid (possible) & he was simply seeking attention but he was dogged & set with this mentality regardless of how well people argued against it. In fact, truth be told, I wouldn't have been surprised if he had a mental disorder or two.
And these sorts of mgtow guys are the ones that police are worried about. They're the extremist version & like any extremist version, they're potentially dangerous. Same with extremist feminists (I'm sure there are some "feminists" who'd scream sexual harassment if a guy simply smiles at them they're that depraved).
It is a good thing.
MGTOW can be many thing to many different people. I do my own thing, I go my own way. I do not feel the need to kiss women's asses or agree with everything they say as so many American "men" are. I was redpilled in many ways long before the term came out. Since I was in high school I remember seeing with my own eyes
how women would get soft treatment and how men would kiss their ass and defend them no matter how shitty they were. Also, being redpilled I have come to see how dangerous women are ; a women's false rape accusation and you will have to move to Siberia to start anew. Any women can accuse you of rape , any female coworker can scream sexual harrasment and you are done. Little evidence is needed in many cases. A whim, a rumor, or anything circumstantial will do. As for the family courts - they will usually favor the female- the guy will pay out of his ass for years ; alimony and child support have kept many men back. I have known a fair share of divorced guys who are living in small apartments driving an old beater while the ex-wife is living large in his nice house and driving a brand new car ( not to mention sucking off the new boyfriend ). Many ex-wives will also use the kids as pawns against the ex husbands. Prenups are jokes in most cases. The judge can toss them out if desired. In many states a judge can force you to pay child support for a kid that is not yours (I shit you not. Look it up) I avoid single moms like the dark plague.
Despite the shitty deal that men get I am surprised to see how many guys do not do their due dilligence. Have they ever read a marriage contract? Have they ever looked into divorce statistics? Have they ever looked into how family courts work and how they tend to favor the women? Have they ever looked into how employers, the police , and the media are trained to assume that any rape or sexual harrasment allegation is true , despite lack of evidence? ( there is a socialogical doctrine on this. The name eludes me though as I write this) Despite this men are still expected to"man up" and tie the knot.
I have done my due diligence and I have gathered my observations and thoughts and have concluded that going my own way is the safest, most sensible option for my own protection.
Anyone that does not like this can eat a big steaming bowl of shit and die 10,000 agonizing deaths.
In my mind it's the same problem with feminists except it's guys. You have the good ones who are fighting for equity and equality, for guys it's equality in divorce court and parental rights and such because honestly some guys get totally screwed over. And then you have the borderline militant ones who give everyone a bad name.
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A man might start out with good intentions but once a group discussion forms it can breed bitterness and hostility. I've seen posts where men are so angry they say if a woman is being beaten they'd just walk by. Reddit is an interesting place with this stuff.
I honestly could not be around anyone long term that leans toward MGTOW. I think the key is everyone stays in their own lane.
Go your own way if you want to. It's your life, your decision. But don't bitch and whine to everyone else about it.
u I call it MFTOCEM - Men Fixin' Their Own Coffee Every Morning. Less competition for us who aren't still butt hurt about some girl in the 11th grade 20 years ago!
They can knock themselves out. Doesn’t affect me as long as they leave me alone.
I used to enjoy following the group during a time in my life where it really helped me to understand that being single was alright, that the romantic process was unfair to men, that women had devolved into being very toxic, and that many people in relationships are less happy than single people. However, the group has become a pretty bad echo chamber, and if you defend women at any point they'll turn against you. I've gotten banned from the subreddit, and I still see really stupid stuff on there, but it's their prerogative to be like that if they want.
I forever will be grateful for being taught to weigh the value a person brings into my life versus their cost, and I think they're one of the reasons I was able to cut off my alcoholic mother.
Many men feel abused, frustrated and lonely in life, and I think they provide some kind of reassuring support.
But like I said... I don't want to be part of the retardation that thinks all women are Satan. Most women are shitty, but plenty of men are shitty, a lot of woman's shittiness is because certain men enable and encourage it, there are good men and women, and we should give each other the benefit of the doubt.
As a 35 year old “post wall reformed cock carousel rider”, they’re about as useless to me as I am to them. I can only speak for my experiences on GAG as I haven’t really encountered them in person, but I have been on the receiving end of their rhetoric more than once on here for merely posting a comment. After five years in the military, I’ve been insulted a far worse. It’s really quite hilarious how they think I’m supposed be insulted by being called old, useless, wall hitter, reformed slut, etc. If you really want to insult me, ask me if I ever killed someone. That’ll do it more than the red pill crap.
As for my thoughts on MGTOW, I understand where they’re coming from because there are just as much horrible women out there as there are horrible men. If anyone (male or female) wants to go their own way and not deal with marriage or relationships, that’s awesome however, I think what I find laughable about MGTOW and extreme feminism (and yes I said both equally so chill you downvote happy people) is the vitriol and anguish spewed by both groups towards the respective opposite gender. Both of them just sound like the opposite sex version of each other. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go tend to my condo full of kitties and boxed wine ✌🏻
From what I've seen, MGTOW is a motley religion without any real coherent principles. Just anyone with complaints about women can join their movement.
For example many incels can just spend money on prostitutes and call all women prostitutes and they're already welcome in a MGTOW discussion.
And then there are those who are truly screwed over by women, e. g divorced dads. I feel they are rare, most MGTOWers I've seen are just men having no success with women in real life then turn bitter. Many would instantly abandon their cause the moment some chick gives them a chance, even if it's an online relationship.
There are also the gurus. As a cope mechanism people like to see themselves as enlightened rather than a failure with women, so the gurus try to cash in on this, they provide a way to make people feel enlightened, preaching on Youtube and write self help books, they are basically Deepak Chopra but with lower IQ and higher self confidence.
There are also the monks, who have truly went their own way. They are not actual monks, but close. You won't see them on this site obviously lmao, look at the site name.
All MGTOWers see themselves as either the monk, the player or the guru, but the ones who have a G@G account and constantly seethe about women are obviously none of these.
I understand the basis of it. In the minds of many men, dating, relationships and marriage no longer seem worth effort, time and treasure. This is caused by the various waves of feminism and fatherless households where maleness is suppressed. The #metoo mentality has put a final knife in it by causing ruthless, angry SJW young women to be an existential threat against men, careers, family and the quality of life in general. Confronting this is difficult because lawyers, the courts and pop culture in general present men as patriarchs when they are actually in decline.
Many men have finally reached the point where the pool of available women are unworkable and relationships and sexuality are no longer worth the effort, expense and risk. These men are in retreat and they do harm to our culture by not fighting back and retaking the leadership role that is in their DNA. So they go their separate ways.
My version going my own way has been to stem out of the pop culture world.
No social media (except GAG!). No cable TV. I've cut off Netflix. I am with a foreign national who is repelled by the feminist world view. We run a retro, traditional household and seek out life's simple pleasures and permanent things.
Men should aggressively seek out partners from among the billion or more eligible East Asian and Latin American to replace the feminism-infected women they flee from.
When I wake up to her sweet disposition and moderate world view, I feel like I am cheating fate every day,
It is based on the fact that men are becoming aware that the laws, family courts, the media, schools, colleges, and the workplace are extremely bias in favor of women to the detriment of men. Bias in favor of women is normal because, throughout history, men have always protected women. Men die fighting to protect women. Women don't die fighting to protect men. And, in wars, it is men, not women, that are killed in large numbers.
However, even though bias in favor of women has been the norm throughout all human history, in modern times, the bias has become so extreme that some men are saying, "that's enough already."
Ultimately, men are in charge and the only rights women have are rights enforced by men. If the overwhelming percentage of men decide to reverse things, the women are powerless to prevent it. In Iran, under the Shaw, women had many rights--rights that were enforced by men. After the revolution, most of their rights were taken away and there was nothing the women could do to prevent it.
Women cannot possibly fight men. Give me an army of 1,000 men vs. an army of 10,000 women, including commanders, and I would give 10 to 1 odds and put my money on the men.
In theory, it's fine, no skin off my back. But in practice, men I've run into who are part of this are angry at women to the point that existing in a shared space with them is enough to set them off.
Nice to see someone who is part of it but not instantly on the offensive. Good luck on your journey of self discovery.
I used to watch a lot of MGTOW content some four or so years ago - I think I've seen it all at this point because the only reason I stopped was because they were just retreading what I've already heard - women bad this, women bad that and etc.
MGTOWs have a lot of good points about society, for sure, but I can't see myself as part of that kind of pessimistic thinking - even though I'd have every reason to indulge.
A bunch of disparate guys that are fed up with the dogmatic politics that openly pervades modern society. Some have been previously burned, others are trying to avoid future catastrophies given the unequal framework in the current society.
Their teachings may have been of more interest to me as a young man, just don't take them as religious doctrine as the zealots tend to do.
They would be quite alright if they didn't demonize women as the evil in it's pure form, who are out there to destroy men and society. From what I've seen they've mostly been the same butthurt losers as the insane feminazis, fueling the gender wars.
What ever has happened to just opt out and keep calm like they have vowed to?
no offense but you asked.
its funny because in the beginning men just dragged the women by the hair to the cave if they liked the girl but now guys are protesting something they allowed to happen due to west coast influences which is the worst thing a guy could do.
iv been doing it my way since i was a kid in the 70's the new movement is just a joke for women to laugh at guys nothing more. if guys want to change things go back to calling a women a bitch or some other word to draw a line and not run away to the freaking circus too show the girl who is boss.
i can't believe guys actually do this crap lol
The guys who legitimately just want to do their own thing and focus on themselves for a while? No problem I respect them taking that time for self reflection.
The guys who are just incels hiding under the MGTOW banner, they are toxic.
Being in a culture that supports boys being gay and trans is worse. We have monks here for centuries. MGTOW is not new for me. However, now more and more boys would like to have their penises cut off even they're just 16, never learn about girls, and girls love to men go gay. (There are boy bands with fangirls who would be aggressive and beyond if their crush likes any girls, more gay series on air than before; not as many lesbian series.)
I believe one day guys who go their own ways will grow up and improved.
I like the vid: Geek Love with a young men who lives with an overprotective mom. This is a very good example of how weak or toxic father (cheating husbands who leave their wives) would effect their kids. Thanks.
I've known about this movement for a while and I find it very sad. and in hindsight I could see both sides of why they want to do this. some men have been screwed over by the justice system when it comes to paying child support for their children after a divorce. but the other half of the men also just don't want to put in the effort of attracting a woman and so they're like the ugly rejects of society and then they blame women for that. so I don't know it's a mixed bag of all different types of men that are going their own way. but I believe men should step up to the plate right now women have been doing this doing this and men are falling behind. look up Jordan Peterson on YouTube he agrees on this that men need to step up.
Dear MGTOW,
Please, by all means go your own way already. You insist on lecturing women about how useless, horrible, and destructive we are to you based on your personal experiences with 'a few women' and neglect to even recognize your own part in all of that and that there are an equal amount of crappy men out there who have done equally bad crap to women. Irony. For men who claim to have such a distaste for women, you sure do talk about us A LOT. You have whole websites dedicated to us, you bring it up at every turn, and I fail to see how happy you actually are since you seem to dwell in the so called misery of life that women have created for you. No one is holding you back or down from exporting all traces of feminine energy from your life. Do not reproduce. End your line with you. Die happy with all the money you will allegedly have because that's the most important thing in life.
Positive but also not sustainable in the long run.
They know that it’s not meant to be for everyone or last forever. It’s more of a “weather the storm” strategy, but I think they are spreading attitudes that will ultimately manifest in positive ways and the do it without violent protests or anything like that, kinda neat.
It's not a movement , movements have a leadership cadre , an offline presence , and often funding of some sort , feminism meets these definitions , it has a ( universally misandrist ) leadership cadre , very well funded , also , the rank and file never call out their leaders. MGTOW it is only a very loose online only collective , but my view is , why bitch and moan about women... what's the point? Single dad , that has chosen to stay single... and from a woman's POV , she will NOT desire a single dad , and cannot blame women either... there are far more available men than women , mostly without my " baggage " . I put myself into this situation... I dumped my ex wife and took majority custody.
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