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I see questions like "what do you feel about men giving up on women?" and the responses are usually referencing MGTOW in some way, so I wanted to know how your thoughts about men giving up on women without the organization being involved.
(by the way: MGTOW stands for Men Going Their Own Way and is an organization of men that believe in male separatism and are anti-feminist)
True MGTOW is avoiding marriage, and cohabitating. It's not about hating women or not dating. You best know how to protect yourself if you're going to be around women. Some are good, and some are bad.
From a high level, smart women are looking for powerful men who need help being leaders. And about half the men out there, are like that. These guys need someone behind them. It was their mother early on, then some girls in school, and then a wife in the adulthood. They are quite lost alone, and they cannot imagine not having a woman close to them. If not just for sex.
The loner type guys who can be leaders, or a nobody, can get by with little, and these guys commonly known as Sigmas, are the unknown guys that built MGTOW on the side of the MRA Movement. And from there the other groups such as Incels came into the Manosphere. The classic MGTOW guy is an older guy who teaches the young guys how to live. They know about female nature and divorce very well.
The problem with society is that there is a war on boys. It has been going on for nearly 30 years now. Many boys have been growing up in single parent homes because their dad's were crap, or their mothers thought they were powerful. Schools and medicine have been drugging boys so they sit in class all day, and now they are being told a bunch of crap that MGTOW is waking them up to. Men no longer need to the pack mules for society. They no longer need to sacrifice themselves for women and the system.
Modern men are now soft and weak. And it's a mere cycle and reaction to what is going on. Good times make weak men, and weak men have been in power too long. So long their women want to be leaders, until they actually go into it, then you see women fall apart with their box wine and cats. Nature is out of balance.
There will be way more troubles and terrorism around the world. We will put in a tryancial government at somepoint to watch over us, because women seek safety over anything else. As we give in, and let this master leader take control, he will kill millions and only then when men, not women, stand up to all the death and destruction, the bad times will make good men. And they will do what is necessary to make the world good again. Then his kids will forget and take it all for granted again, to keep repeating the cycle.
If current men want to be operate in the blender, be with a woman in such a way you cannot live without her because the man who can live happily either around a woman or alone, for his own reason is vastly stronger than a group of guys who need their women to do anything. And if you are going to live near a woman, understand what she really is. She is not your equal. In fact equality doesn't exist in nature.
MGTOW is a symptom of a larger problem in society, but it's not the only manifestation of the problem, just the most obvious one.
The root cause is that men and women no longer serve a purpose in each other's lives that is compelling enough to outweigh the costs they bring.
Women no longer need a man to provide resources or protection. Most women focus their efforts on career until at least 30, when the alarm on their biological clock begins to ring too loudly for them to ignore and they finally begin paying attention to it. But today many women choose to be single mothers and raise their children without a father. An estimated 24.7 million children (33%) in America live absent their biological father. No man required.
Men have never really needed a woman, but historically a woman brought a lot of value to a man's life. She was a true mother to his children, she "made the house a home", she took care of the tasks at home that kept it functioning smoothly... she cleaned, did the laundry, the grocery shopping, the cooking and the dishes. A woman made the home a sanctuary, a happy place where her husband and children felt safe and loved.
Most of that value has evaporated with all the societal changes over the last half century. The wife comes home from her job, feeling just as stressed as her husband, to a place where nothing has been accomplished during the day. All the tasks a wife and mother would have taken care of during the day still need to be addressed. Both have worked hard all day and have to continue working after they get home. They go to bed and wake up the next morning to do it all over again, and there is little joy in that.
Marriage of the past had it's problems, but today's marriage is worse for both because it doesn't provide enough benefit anymore to outweigh the risks and costs, especially for men. Women no longer offer men enough value in marriage to justify the fact that 40% of wives will divorce their husbands and destroy their lives.
Sex is the only remaining significant value women offer men that even keeps men interested. If you remove sex from the equation, today's women are simply more trouble than they are worth.
That condition, and all of its insidious implications, are at the core of the discontent, malaise and outright anger men feel today, and that is what is driving the MGTOW movement.
Depends on where they're coming from. If they just want to stay single, for no particular reason, that's fine. A little weird, but fine.
But if it's because they're those dudes who blame women for all their life problems, don't want to get married because they are practically already signing the divorce papers for hypothetical wife's inevitable transformation into an evil man-hating witch, or want a marriage-less relationship solely so they can split with consequences. . . that I judge. I admit it.
Same goes for women too. Be single if you want. Don't get married if you want, but if there has to be a reason, make it a good one.
If you look closely at passport bros, you’ll notice a lot of them are leaving because they have no choice. They’ll tell you they’re tired of American women but actually, American women are tired of them. They’re average men who want perfection in a woman. They’re going to places like Brazil where they believe American men are rich (my own dad married a Brazilian woman and even HE admits this), and young Brazilian women like my 22 year old sister are saying No Thanks.
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29Opinion
Mamma's boys ruled by overprotecting Mother that needed to be reigned in by her husband or the boy's father. Sad.
Makes me feel sad dude. It's sad.
women don't believe in marriage even though marriage is designed to benefit them despite feminists telling them it's oppressive and patriarchal and they should focus more on their careers, partying, getting drunk, hooking up etc.
and then eventually when they do want to marry, they have all these highly unrealistic standards for their future husband while bringing nothing of substance to the marriage except poor health, student debt, a bad attitude and a body count over 300
and when the man of their dreams goes after someone else e. g. an 18 yo virgin with good morals and character they begin to creep shame him, predator shame him, maybe virgin shame him etc.
that being said, if women don't believe in marriage why should men believe in marriage either?
It is not surprising, women have said that they "want to be left alone' and 'not objectified by men', so men have given them what they asked for, now women are complaining that men are no longer dating. guys are instead focusing on their career (Their Grind) and their own welfare as they can see that society sees them as disposable.
Feminist have not helped the situation by denigrating the 'Housewife' which truth be told is one of the toughest jobs in society, it is more than just one job. And instead pushed women's careers as the be all and end all, and by the time they decide they want to have a family it is too late for the majority of them.
By the way: Men Going Their Own Way is NOT organization, it had no leaders, it is more of a Philosophy under which each man literally goes his own way, his own path.
MGTOW and “Passport bros” are not organizations. They have no leaders, they have no structure, there is no requirements to join nor websites to sign up on. The same could be said for labeling it a movement. It’s simply a way of life to do the bare minimum for a society that has demoralized and demonized its young men. If MGTOW can be guilty of anything, it’s for being selfish.
it's sad and dumb. these guys believe weird shit about women and dating and stuff and cause of that they're missing out on one of the best things about life. now if they also skip out on sex or any female interraction on top of that like some of those mgtow dudes do, now that's really really really sad and cringy honestly
I don’t care about them. They’re not interested in the same things I am so why would I care? They’re not the type of dude I’d go for either.
That said the few dudes I know that do that have travelled away from western because they want that control and submissiveness. One learned the hard way that it doesn’t matter where he goes the women he’s interested in will not be what he’s idealized
I've never met anyone who claims to be MGTOW in real life. It's only a narrative I see on this site. Most men just date and sleep with women and don't marry them. A lot of them have good long lasting relationships. Often they even live together in the same household for years to decades. They just aren't locked into a marriage contract. What's the issue? Are you in it for the relationship or for the money/attorney's fees?
It's sad for them and the women. There's no way around the drive that the hormones create, in part of life fulfillment.
I was learning about Octopus... they literally break off their appendage and hand it to the female and hope she doesn't eat them. That's bravery and commitment! It's tough on men as well, they want, but so many are so hurt or confused.
There is no such thing as a MGTOW organisation. All these men you're referring to are de facto MGTOW. This tendency of walking away from women or society in general is nothing new. It was recorded as early as the Roman Empire during its decline.
It’s not a bad idea until men have equality, and we replace modern women with traditional ones.
However, since none of that will ever happen what else can a guy do to protect himself from the litany of potential life altering dangers of getting involved with the power hungry, delusional, arrogant, selfish modern woman who has all the laws tilted in her favor in regards to marriage and divorce.
actually mgtow itself is not an organization, its a philosophy. that is why every time you talk about giving up on dating and relationship you will hear folks bring it up just like you will hear the word "bodybuilder" whenever you talk about fitness
It is understandable. More men need to understand and follow along. They will be less likely to be abused, less likely to suicide, less likely to end up rough sleeping, less likely to end up as a poor senior and they will live their lives freely.
sometimes in life. men are the clueless people. women are the powerful people. men and women fall in love in a mysterious way. they want to be in love. men are not ready for a relationship. but women are ready for a relationship. men are not serious about marriage. women are serious about marriage. that's way it is about dating and marriage.
I understand why people have given up on dating and relationships. I guess I just think it should be a personal choice and not because of subscribing to or following a particular social movement.
Its fine. men should never marry in the western world in the first place. they should all gather and leave to different countries where women value men and there's low divorce rates like in south America or the Philippines or Thailand.
because they're a bunch of frustrated desperate losers who can't get women. why do you think they spend their entire lives talking shit about women?
it doesn’t affect me at all🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ the kind of guys that get into the whole MGTOW stuff are not the kind of guys that i would ever be interested in in the first place🙃🙃
It’s all good with me. I think it’s cool to be an independent person not reliant on the other sex for emotional regulation, cooking, cleaning, and planning.
well in a society where masculinity is bashed, that's the natural consequence. if being a man is made undesirable, men won't want to act like ones anymore. that's feminisms fault. i'm a massive anti-feminist by the way but not at all MGTOW.
